Due to the FCPS budget cuts, our elementary school (Navy) bus stop now has 61 children at it. Many parents drive to the stop because FCPS has said elementary school children can walk up to a mile to a bus stop. There are definite safety issues with this stop, and FCPS, so far, won't do anything about it. Does anyone else have a bus stop this large?

Stop complaining. In this budget year, be greatful you still have a bus. Would you rather they cut books, teachers, or other resources just so your precious does not have to walk too far? Who are you kidding, anyway, I'm sure your kids walk all over your neighborhood when they are out playing with friends. All of a sudden they can't walk to another corner to wait for the bus.

61 kids at a bus stop?!

Please post a pic.

My child walks to the bus stop, and I have no complaint about that. The other parents are not complaining about the distance either. You totally missed my point. There are clear safety issues at a bus stop with 61 kids at it. I think any parent with elementary-school age children would understand.

Angry with FCPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Many
> parents drive to the stop because FCPS has said
> elementary school children can walk up to a mile
> to a bus stop.

I didn't "miss the point". If you were only complaining about the size than you should have "stuck to you point" and not brought up the fact that parent's have to drive up to a mile away. You and your group will use SIZE to make your bus stop change, but tell the truth, what you really want is the bus stop to be on a closer corner.

On Tuesday I watched a bus drive right past a Chantilly student trying to flag down his bus. The student was standing at the same stop he'd used last year not realizing that to save money and time FCPS has changed the schedule in his community so that his development has only one stop (last year his bus stopped at three or four places along this same street). You'd think that on the first day back at school the bus drivers could cut just a little slack for kids who might have missed subtle changes in the schedule.

Eastsider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 61 kids at a bus stop?!
>
> Please post a pic.


Is this the first stop on the route? I thought that the legal number of riders on FCPS school buses was in 50s. Are you even allowed to simply show up at a bus stop?

Well, since FCPS buses have a capacity of 78 students, I don't see the problem. I do suppose there could be other stops, but what is wrong with a large bus stop? Safety in numbers. Walkers have to walk a mile to school, why can't bus riders walk a mile to their bus stop?

Obviously you don't see the problem because your kids are not at this stop. I have a kindergartner who is terrified, and a 2nd grader. Do you know what it is like having 61 kids, parents, siblings, coming from all directions at a busy street corner? Do you think a couple safety patrols can keep this number of kids under control? It is utter chaos every morning. It is not walking to the stop....it is the number of kids and safety that is the problem. Tell me another FCPS bus stop with that number of kids.

So drive your kids to school if you are so worried about it, that's what many parents do on a daily basis anyway.

Angry with FCPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Due to the FCPS budget cuts, our elementary school
> (Navy) bus stop now has 61 children at it. Many
> parents drive to the stop because FCPS has said
> elementary school children can walk up to a mile
> to a bus stop. There are definite safety issues
> with this stop, and FCPS, so far, won't do
> anything about it. Does anyone else have a bus
> stop this large?


If these parents are driving their kids a mile or so to the bus stop why not go all the way and drop them off at school? What is this, an additional 5 minutes?

No, it's better for them to complain about it on some anonymous Internet forum than to take the issue to the school board or whatever official avenue is appropriate.

I agree with the second poster in the thread, either be happy there is a bus at all, or petition the school board to institute fees for busing so that demand will relax. There is either money for it or there isn't.

I agree...in this day and age of $2.50-$4.00 gas prices, paying $50 a year for bus transportation sounds ok to me. Student parking passes are in the range of $150-200 a year, right?

Pfffft. Whiners.

______________________________________________
I have had to change the addresses to my retaliatory blogs over half a dozen times.

What's the difference in your kids being around 60 kids at the bus stop as opposed to being around 60 kids in school? I still think you're just fat and lazy and like to complain.

I think the complaint was that there was too much pedestrian traffic in a limited area, which is a valid concern. But the solution is to take the issue through official channels for the long term solution, and in the short term drive your kids to school if you believe they are unsafe.

I say let your kids make some friends.

wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Attachments:

Concerned09 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obviously you don't see the problem because your
> kids are not at this stop. I have a kindergartner
> who is terrified, and a 2nd grader. Do you know
> what it is like having 61 kids, parents, siblings,
> coming from all directions at a busy street
> corner? Do you think a couple safety patrols can
> keep this number of kids under control? It is
> utter chaos every morning. It is not walking to
> the stop....it is the number of kids and safety
> that is the problem. Tell me another FCPS bus stop
> with that number of kids.

Your kids get a bus. The only people who should complain are those who might get 30 cars blocking their driveways. Parents of kids at the stop should be supervising. better 61 kids than 2 or 3 isolated kids that risk god knows what from creeps and pervs

Concerned09 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obviously you don't see the problem because your
> kids are not at this stop. I have a kindergartner
> who is terrified, and a 2nd grader. Do you know
> what it is like having 61 kids, parents, siblings,
> coming from all directions at a busy street
> corner? Do you think a couple safety patrols can
> keep this number of kids under control? It is
> utter chaos every morning. It is not walking to
> the stop....it is the number of kids and safety
> that is the problem. Tell me another FCPS bus stop
> with that number of kids.

There are a few in Reston, Herndon, Rt. One, Springfield, esp. at the apartment complexes. It is not just you, there are large bus stops everywhere. However, some of these bus stops have been around for years. Just not in the communities where the parents feel priviledged and tend to raise a big, expensive stink. Right or Wrong, the county has always expected a few parents to step up to the plate for supervision at bus stops. You don't honestly think the safety patrols wield any power or control, regardless the size/location of the stop. The county would be perfectly happy if the 61 families just drove their kids to school. You just have to decide if that is a safer option.

I still don't believe that FCPS would have a bus stop with 61 kids.

Must. Have. Pic.

What a tard to complain about 60 kids at a bus stop. Good thing that loser doesn't live in a city like Chicago or New York - 60 kids at a stop is nothing compared to the crowds I grew up with in Chicago. Perfect example of what's wrong with America - all of a sudden, 60 kids at a bus stop is dangerous. Stop having children you tard - if something as minor as this terrifies you, you should just give up the kids for adoption and move to a cave in the hills.

Angry with FCPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Due to the FCPS budget cuts, our elementary school
> (Navy) bus stop now has 61 children at it. Many
> parents drive to the stop because FCPS has said
> elementary school children can walk up to a mile
> to a bus stop. There are definite safety issues
> with this stop, and FCPS, so far, won't do
> anything about it. Does anyone else have a bus
> stop this large?

You might want to send an e-mail to Debra Grimm, Transportation Area III coordinator. Debra.Grimm@fcps.edu is her e-mail address.

Send a copy to Linda Farbry also. She can be reached at Linda.Farbry@fcps.edu.

You should follow with a phone call to Debra Grimm at 703.249.7100.

DONT WORREE I R at yer BUzz Stopz WEARIN ORANJ Safe TEE BELT!

Response to pgens comment: "No, it's better for them to complain about it on some anonymous Internet forum than to take the issue to the school board or whatever official avenue is appropriate."

I too have a bus stop issue and have tried in vain to get the Office of Transportation to address the problem. The staff at the office of transportation responded to our petition with this statement, "If I make a change for you, I have to make a change for everyone." This is a direct quote from their staff. They are not open to discussion regarding their decisions.

Those of us who are so frustrated with this department are now turning to the Internet to voice our complaints. Unite our voices can make a change. Our children's safety is at issue here.

Those of you who have nothing positive to add, please keep your comments to yourself.

Oh my god, another parent group is going to organize to fight the school board. What will they call themselves this time? How much will be spent on extra meetings so this group can get a turn at the microphone to complain in public? If these parents were so concerned about this, why weren't they aware that these changes were being made when the budget cuts and transportation changes were announced last spring. Why did they just find out now? Why weren't they paying attention earlier? Maybe they never thought it would happen in their nicey nice neighborhood. Well too bad.

Back when I went to Cub Run Elementary School (about ten years ago) my bus stop had over 50 kids. So I don't think a bus stop with 61 kids is that big of a deal.

AllyAnnoyed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those of us who are so frustrated with this
> department are now turning to the Internet to
> voice our complaints. Unite our voices can make
> a change. Our children's safety is at issue here.

Finding ten or twenty parents that share your view and picketing outside school board meetings EVERY MEETING until your concerns are heard with a news camera rolling is _much more_ effective than posting your gripes on FairfaxUnderground.com. You just have to organize it and take time out of your busy schedule to do something besides hit "send" on this site.

You need ACTIVism, not PASSivism.

The magic suburban formula: "I shouldn't have to change" + "It must be someone else's fault"= Continued Idiocy

Heck if the bus holds 78 kids, let's set up ONE bus stop per route, and pick up 78 kids. Problem solved.

______________________________________________
I have had to change the addresses to my retaliatory blogs over half a dozen times.

These bus stops must be in the projects.

AllyAnnoyed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Response to pgens comment: "No, it's better for
> them to complain about it on some anonymous
> Internet forum than to take the issue to the
> school board or whatever official avenue is
> appropriate."
>
> I too have a bus stop issue and have tried in vain
> to get the Office of Transportation to address the
> problem. The staff at the office of
> transportation responded to our petition with this
> statement, "If I make a change for you, I have to
> make a change for everyone." This is a direct
> quote from their staff. They are not open to
> discussion regarding their decisions.
>
> Those of us who are so frustrated with this
> department are now turning to the Internet to
> voice our complaints. Unite our voices can make
> a change. Our children's safety is at issue here.
>
>
> Those of you who have nothing positive to add,
> please keep your comments to yourself.


Response to you...Get over it. The transportation office doesn't care, because again, there are areas of the county that have operated in this matter for years. Why should your neighborhood be any different? Are you better than everyone else? You deserve to be safer than everyone else? You, like many other FCPS parents have no survival skills or common sense. Your vocabulary stretches as far as "gimme, gimme, gimme...whaaaaaaa." Life is not handed to you on a silver platter. Get in your sparkly Lexus and drive 6 or 7 kids to school, you can even do this in your fuzzy slippers and without your Maybelline. Imagine that!

im thinking this is more of a "there are 61 kids in range of the bus stop" leaving out the fact that "7 kids take the bus"


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

What, precisely, is the safety issue with 61 children on a street corner?

Like what exactly are you worried about? There's probably at least 3x that running around at recess, and maybe 10x that amount running around when school lets out..

Are your kids getting bullied or something? Teach them to stand up for themselves. Volunteer with a few other parents to take rotating "bus stop" duty..

Take some responsibility.. You sound like one of these lazy parents that wants the school to raise your kids.

First of all too many Navy parents complain. Get a grip. Second of all your school boundaries barely go a whole mile in any direction. 61 kids at a stop does seem excessive and potentially dangerous, but if your kids are scared, drive them or (gasp) walk them to school.

How can these people think their problem compares to this poor woman who's been posting on historicvienna.com:

My kindergartner is expected to walk to his bus stop 2 blocks away - half of which is without sidewalks.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out NOT ONE POLITICIAN IN TOWN GIVES A RAT'S A%$.
I did see this press release from May stating that school times were adjusting in order to streamline bus routes. Is this also part of the effort to "save gas?"
http://commweb.fcps.edu/newsreleases/newsrelease.cfm?newsid=1182
Posted by: vienna mommy | September 10, 2009 03:27 PM

I think we should take up a collection to buy her the house that's right at the bus stop.

You all need to understand what's really going on. The transportation staff is sabotaging school bus routes and doing this deliberately because they don't EVER AGAIN want to take good ideas from the community -- like saving millions of dollars with changed transportation routes -- and implement them. So they're trying to "prove" that the savings Brad Center promoted last Spring after working with parent groups to find them, are impossible to gain. This is ultimately so they can shoot down any conceivable notion of later high school start times. It is typical of the way FCPS staff under Dale functions.

Furthermore, and this is totally true, the transportation staff uses sticky notes to determine bus routes. It has an enormously expensive software program to make sure none of these overcrowding, bus route, unsafe, etc. problems arise, and to make routing more efficient and safer and quicker, but it uses 1/10th of its capabilities and not for those purposes. And sticky notes on a big old map.

Bad year for busing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On Tuesday I watched a bus drive right past a
> Chantilly student trying to flag down his bus. The
> student was standing at the same stop he'd used
> last year not realizing that to save money and
> time FCPS has changed the schedule in his
> community so that his development has only one
> stop (last year his bus stopped at three or four
> places along this same street). You'd think that
> on the first day back at school the bus drivers
> could cut just a little slack for kids who might
> have missed subtle changes in the schedule.

It's a bad year for bus drivers too! I have over 20 years with FCPS and for this year, they cut my hours from 40 to 26. That's a 30+ percent PAY CUT. I'm a single mom and barely got by on 40 hours, I'm praying I can get my hours increased at my other job (Walmart) to partially make up for it.

About the driver you saw passing a student, I'd bet that bus is equipped with an AVL, which is a GPS-like tracking device that, among other things, records everytime the bus door is opened and the exact location that it is opened.

We are strictly forbidden to make "unauthorized" stops! I'm sure that driver would have liked to stop for that kid, but if she had, she would have been literally risking her job. I have situations like that, where you want to do something nice but it's just too risky. Especially nowadays, I'm convinced they are trying to get rid of drivers with these massive pay cuts and other underhandedness.

61 kids at a stop is not new or unusual, I've had up in the 70s at one stop! At some apartment stops, they send TWO buses to pick up ONE stop, and both are packed.

Bus capacity is rated by the manufacturers. A 78 passenger bus assumes three to a seat, which is OK for little kids. With two to a seat they only hold 52 kids.

Can't speak for Navy, but in Fairfax Station/Lorton area it's a complete clusterfuck. Due to changed boundaries many kids have to go not to closest, not even to second closest, but to the third school, resulting in 45 mins... 1+ hour bus rides. Some even have to take 2 buses on one trip. And no, no cost savings - they've added 5 or so new bus routes to accomodate moving kids from Route 1 hoods over to better schools. To balance the statistics so some FCPS officials can claim doing good job.

If you feel upset with the situation, call the Washington Post. Ask if they can look into if Dale's base salary of ($260,00k plus) + (bonus of $60,000) + (paid days off for his private contracting business) can be adjusted to help pay for an extra bus or extra stops for the kids.

The Post had an article the other day saying his contract has been extended for another 4 years. His base salary is around $292K and he gets an extra $65K toward retirement accounts. I wonder how much he makes doing "private consulting" basically on the clock- maybe an additional $100K. He worked out a nice contract for himself.

I'm praying I can get my hours increased at
> my other job (Walmart) to partially make up for
> it.
>
> With a CDL, you are working at Wal Mart?

Surely you know FCPS drivers who are working elsewhere part time using their CDL.

Veolia at the airport is always hiring.

You could always check out www.kegbus.com .to see what the Keg Bus has available.

GMU Hokie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm praying I can get my hours increased at
> > my other job (Walmart) to partially make up for
> > it.
> >
> > With a CDL, you are working at Wal Mart?
>
> Surely you know FCPS drivers who are working
> elsewhere part time using their CDL.
>
> Veolia at the airport is always hiring.
>
> You could always check out www.kegbus.com .to see
> what the Keg Bus has available.


The problem is I don't own a car. Can't afford one.

Fortunately, they let me park the bus at a school within walking distance. And WalMart is the best job I can walk to.

I know a driver that moonlights at Reston Limousine and makes good money. I'd do it in a second, but I just can't get there.

Hey, that Keg Bus looks like fun!

> >
>>
>
> The problem is I don't own a car. Can't afford
> one.
>
> Fortunately, they let me park the bus at a school
> within walking distance. And WalMart is the best
> job I can walk to.
>
> I know a driver that moonlights at Reston
> Limousine and makes good money. I'd do it in a
> second, but I just can't get there.
>
> Hey, that Keg Bus looks like fun!

The Keg Bus is fun and at least one FCPS driver works there on weekends.

Check out the web site for Vehicles for Change. You might be able to get one at a low rate.

The Navy parents got all their bus stops back.

Angry with FCPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Due to the FCPS budget cuts, our elementary school
> (Navy) bus stop now has 61 children at it. Many
> parents drive to the stop because FCPS has said
> elementary school children can walk up to a mile
> to a bus stop.

Growing up in Annandale, my little brother had to walk one mile
(or maybe the rule was "under" - by 10 feet or something - a mile)
to his elementary school.

Yes, in the snow...


Ah, Google says it's 0.9 miles so I guess they were not lying. :)

(I never had to walk, myself; my bus stop, for intermediate and high school, was two houses down. Typically about 5-15 people at a stop at once.)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2009 04:07PM by Spacy.

My kids' bus driver lives in Frednecksburg, and leaves her house at 4:30 AM each morning to be at work by 6:00 AM.

My friend drives a bus and told me that bus drivers are under a gag order. They are forbidden to discuss anything about a bus route with parents. They are under orders to answer all questions with "Call Transportation".

So, if your kids' driver does talk, DO NOT quote them when talking to the Transportation Office. You will get the driver in a heap of trouble. If a driver provides useful information (like the truth!), use it, but don't tell them where you heard it!

If you're within a mile of the school/bus stop, and adequate sidewalks have been built, then the County will make the kids walk.

Laws Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're within a mile of the school/bus stop,
> and adequate sidewalks have been built, then the
> County will make the kids walk.

If these are the rules for students, then FCPS staff needs to walk when they go to any meeting within one mile.

Transportation Dept. is who is actually running the school system - not Jack Dale.

susan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My friend drives a bus and told me that bus
> drivers are under a gag order. They are forbidden
> to discuss anything about a bus route with
> parents. They are under orders to answer all
> questions with "Call Transportation".
>
> So, if your kids' driver does talk, DO NOT quote
> them when talking to the Transportation Office.
> You will get the driver in a heap of trouble. If
> a driver provides useful information (like the
> truth!), use it, but don't tell them where you
> heard it!


~~~~~~~ Don't call, use e-mail.

Here is a link to FCPS Transportation: http://www.fcps.edu/fts/tran/index.htm

Use it.

Let's see if that $4 million in savings ever materializes.

My high school kid's bus comes at 6:20. That is an absurd hour for a 15 year old. I understand the objections to LATER start times (sports and all), but why is our bus coming EARLIER this year?

So drop your kid off at a more reasonable hour... the unwilingness of people to help themselves or their situation is surprising in this thread. It's like screaming that the house is too hot but being unwilling to get off the couch (interrupting Ellen or Oprah) and turn up the AC. What do you want us to do about it when you can fix your own problems? Whine whine whine.

Precious Snowflake Cody has to get up early in the morning?! When will the injustices perpetrated on the children by FCPS cease?!

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

NavyWon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Navy parents got all their bus stops back.


Really, hope the parents at Wolftrap (and the socio-econo diverse elementary schools) who have to walk their 5 year olds a mile to school, don't hear how the spoiled, lazy, conniving parents at Navy got their way. Except the Franklin Farm and Bennett Rd, kids, is their any neighborhood @ Navy that is more than a mile away? Exactly how much money does FCPS spend on keeping the Navy parents happy?

All the Navy parents have to do is make a few phone calls and they get what they want. The reason the Franklin Farm (and there is only a very small island that goes to Navy)and Bennett Road even go to Navy is because way back when Oak Hill and Crossfield were being built they petitioned to STAY at Navy and got exactly what they wanted.

bus driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bad year for busing Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > On Tuesday I watched a bus drive right past a
> > Chantilly student trying to flag down his bus.
> The
> > student was standing at the same stop he'd used
> > last year not realizing that to save money and
> > time FCPS has changed the schedule in his
> > community so that his development has only one
> > stop (last year his bus stopped at three or
> four
> > places along this same street). You'd think
> that
> > on the first day back at school the bus drivers
> > could cut just a little slack for kids who
> might
> > have missed subtle changes in the schedule.
>
> It's a bad year for bus drivers too! I have over
> 20 years with FCPS and for this year, they cut my
> hours from 40 to 26. That's a 30+ percent PAY
> CUT. I'm a single mom and barely got by on 40
> hours, I'm praying I can get my hours increased at
> my other job (Walmart) to partially make up for
> it.
>
> About the driver you saw passing a student, I'd
> bet that bus is equipped with an AVL, which is a
> GPS-like tracking device that, among other things,
> records everytime the bus door is opened and the
> exact location that it is opened.
>
> We are strictly forbidden to make "unauthorized"
> stops! I'm sure that driver would have liked to
> stop for that kid, but if she had, she would have
> been literally risking her job. I have situations
> like that, where you want to do something nice but
> it's just too risky. Especially nowadays, I'm
> convinced they are trying to get rid of drivers
> with these massive pay cuts and other
> underhandedness.
>
> 61 kids at a stop is not new or unusual, I've had
> up in the 70s at one stop! At some apartment
> stops, they send TWO buses to pick up ONE stop,
> and both are packed.
>
> Bus capacity is rated by the manufacturers. A 78
> passenger bus assumes three to a seat, which is OK
> for little kids. With two to a seat they only
> hold 52 kids.

~~~~ A few more thoughts . . .
If you have two years of college credits, you could substitute teach in your down time. Not all sub assignments are for the entire day. I know of at least one Bus Driver/ Bus attendant who would finish for the morning and call the computer or go on line to see what was available. Often, this person (Transportation Area III) would accept an assignment at 9 a.m and be off by 1 p.m. in time to get back to the bus.

If you do not have the required credits to substitute teach, you could still sub as an instructional assistant. No college credits are required to be a full time or part time i.a.

Another bus driver, now retired, was an FCPS administrator. This person, also Transportation Area III, would pinch hit as an administrator during the day, and finish his runs at the end of the school day. He collected his FCPS retirement, his bus driver pay and his sub administrator pay. What a deal ! ! !

Lastly, I know of several bus drivers who just used their CDL licenses to work at the warehouse. The work is full time, year round, and there is no split shift.

You might want to think about it.

Somehow I think these parents will have something more substantial to complain about once their kids get older. Perhaps they will look back on their old FU posts and think "oh, the good old days, when all I had to worry about was my kids riding the big yellow school bus" . . .

curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Somehow I think these parents will have something
> more substantial to complain about once their kids
> get older. Perhaps they will look back on their
> old FU posts and think "oh, the good old days,
> when all I had to worry about was my kids riding
> the big yellow school bus" . . .

~~~~ You are right. In the first 12 years of a child's life, parents are worried someone will do harm to their children. In the next six, they want to do it themselves.

im still waiting for that pic with 60+ kids waiting for the bus.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."