Hello,
I'm a software engineer that's been working for the federal government for a few months now. I just came out here from the midwest.

I just happened to stumble into a statistic that the median income for software engineers in this county is about 130k. ( https://www.vawizard.org/vccs/CareerProfile.action?socCode=15-1031 )

Is this true?? I'm making half that. :(

Any software engineers want to lay out what they earn and what their job title/skill set is?

Well, I work for a major software making company. My title is "Software Engineer", and my duties include the engineering of software. My salary is 130,000 a year.

Curious Herman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello,
> I'm a software engineer that's been working for
> the federal government for a few months now. I
> just came out here from the midwest.
>
> I just happened to stumble into a statistic that
> the median income for software engineers in this
> county is about 130k. (
> https://www.vawizard.org/vccs/CareerProfile.action
> ?socCode=15-1031 )
>
> Is this true?? I'm making half that. :(
>
> Any software engineers want to lay out what they
> earn and what their job title/skill set is?

Government workers don't really "do" any software engineering. They just oversee what their contractors are doing. You most likely are writing rqmts., sitting in on testing, navigating through laborious and mind-numbing solicitations, reviewing product implementation plans, begging for more money to cover cost overruns or best yet filling out endless OMB forms and reports. If you really want to do the engineering work and get paid the salary you are looking for, go work for the contractor.

The $130,000 figure is the 50th percentile of what ALL software engineers make, from the guy just starting out his first year after college to the guy just about to retire from 20 or 30 years on the job.

If you're making $65k and you only have a couple of year's experience, you are doing about right, especially considering you are a government employee. If you went out to the private sector, you could easily start out over $85k.


Go here and you can get an idea of how much YOU should be making as a software engineer with YOUR experience: http://www.salary.com

When you are talking $130,000 a year you are talking about computer geek types that speaker jibberish half the time and have odd social skills.

I would say most senior software engineers in this area make between $75-$110. These are the geeks that go to computer conferences on vacation, spend their evenings reading computer manuals and bloging about the latest code challanges.

I don't know about the OP, but most of the software engineers I knew in the government started off as a GS-11 (around 50-60k.) Usually they got a position that required a clearance, and once they finally got the clearance, they ditched the government and went to work for a contractor. Usually bumped their salary to well over 100k, even for those with no experience fresh out of college.

What did they do when they were waiting for their government clearance? Doesn't that count as experience?

Worked one year as a programmer for a big consulting firm, made $60,000, got a clearance and stayed another year with a 10% increase. Took off a year, put my resume out there and got 6 offers, 3 government consultants, 3 private companies. took the best, $86,000, plus signing bonus. Company is paying to do the next level up clearance.

Only google and microsoft paid close to $100,000 to new grads. they aren't paying anything now since they aren't taking new hires.

No experience? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What did they do when they were waiting for their
> government clearance? Doesn't that count as
> experience?
>
> Worked one year as a programmer for a big
> consulting firm, made $60,000, got a clearance and
> stayed another year with a 10% increase. Took off
> a year, put my resume out there and got 6 offers,
> 3 government consultants, 3 private companies.
> took the best, $86,000, plus signing bonus.
> Company is paying to do the next level up
> clearance.
>
> Only google and microsoft paid close to $100,000
> to new grads. they aren't paying anything now
> since they aren't taking new hires.


Must have been 10 years ago if you took "the best" at 86k.

http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_salaryresults.asp?op=salswz%5Fpsr&jobfamilycode=24&txtKeyword=software+engineer&hdOmniNarrowDesc=IT+%2D%2D+Computers%2C+Software&hdZipCode=20009&hdOmniTotalJobsFound=7&pagefrom=selectjob&hdJobCategory=IT05&hdGeoLocation=Washington%2C+DC+20009&countertype=0&totaljoblistnum=7&joblevelcode=3&hdCurrentPage=1&hdNarrowDesc=IT+%2D%2D+Computers%2C+Software&hdLocationOption=0&hdViewAllRecords=0&hdJobTitle=Software+Engineer+V&hdSearchByOption=0&hdKeyword=software+engineer&rdbSearchByOption=0&hdStateMetro=192&jobcounter=3&hdSortBy=0&hdJobCode=IT10000201&hdJSBoolDisplayAdvertisement=&hdAjaxKeyword=software+engineer&hdAjaxKeywordWithOR=%23software%23+OR+%23engineer%23&hdAjaxDisplaySection1=1&hdAjaxDisplaySection2=0

Google is still hiring:

http://www.google.com/intl/en/jobs/profiles/swe.html



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2009 03:00AM by Thurston Moore.

$130,000 sounds about right - if you are TS/SCI cleared

No experience? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What did they do when they were waiting for their
> government clearance? Doesn't that count as
> experience?
>
> Worked one year as a programmer for a big
> consulting firm, made $60,000, got a clearance and
> stayed another year with a 10% increase. Took off
> a year, put my resume out there and got 6 offers,
> 3 government consultants, 3 private companies.
> took the best, $86,000, plus signing bonus.
> Company is paying to do the next level up
> clearance.
>
> Only google and microsoft paid close to $100,000
> to new grads. they aren't paying anything now
> since they aren't taking new hires.


86k isn't much for someone with programming experience and a clearance. I know people with only a high school diploma making six figures because of certain clearances they obtained.

As far as you saying that the time spent waiting for the clearance counts as experience, that isn't always true. If you don't have the clearance required for the position, you can't do the job. A lot of defense contractors and government agencies will pay people, often for several months, to sit around and surf the internet while they wait for the clearance to come through.

Blessed are the murderous.

eesh Wrote:
A
> lot of defense contractors and government agencies
> will pay people, often for several months, to sit
> around and surf the internet while they wait for
> the clearance to come through.

What world do you live in...they are not HIRED if they do not ALREADY HAVE THE CLEARANCE!

Tia2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesh Wrote:
> A
> > lot of defense contractors and government
> agencies
> > will pay people, often for several months, to
> sit
> > around and surf the internet while they wait
> for
> > the clearance to come through.
>
> What world do you live in...they are not HIRED if
> they do not ALREADY HAVE THE CLEARANCE!


Majority of the time this is true. However, when I was in the government, there were a quite a few college students and people coming from civilian companies that had certain skills and advanced degrees that the government wanted to retain.
The contractor I work for now does this, and it is a common practice for a lot of defense companies around this area to hire a person with very valuable skills with no clearance. They have to possess the clearance to do the job, so they sit around until the clearance comes through. Its usually called being in holding status.

Basically, Tia2, you're an ALL CAPS fucking idiot.

Blessed are the murderous.

My company calls it "on the bench" and I am familiar with the process - thank you. My company does not hire many people who do not already possess the clearance - as a matter of fact - all job requisitions state MUST HAVE next to the clearance level required...

Again..I guess that is why we pay what we do...oh well...

Tia2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My company calls it "on the bench" and I am
> familiar with the process - thank you. My company
> does not hire many people who do not already
> possess the clearance - as a matter of fact - all
> job requisitions state MUST HAVE next to the
> clearance level required...
>
> Again..I guess that is why we pay what we do...oh
> well...


By the sounds of your posts, I thought you were an Old Navy employee or hair dresser.

Blessed are the murderous.

I make software...

i sort glass.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I can back up what BBandit says.. I honestly feel like I got tricked. I'm not enjoying my job at all, but don't want to just leave after only a few months.

BBandit Wrote:
> Government workers don't really "do" any software
> engineering. They just oversee what their
> contractors are doing. You most likely are
> writing rqmts., sitting in on testing, navigating
> through laborious and mind-numbing solicitations,
> reviewing product implementation plans, begging
> for more money to cover cost overruns or best yet
> filling out endless OMB forms and reports. If you
> really want to do the engineering work and get
> paid the salary you are looking for, go work for
> the contractor.

I work for Initech.

Curious Herman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can back up what BBandit says.. I honestly feel
> like I got tricked. I'm not enjoying my job at
> all, but don't want to just leave after only a few
> months.

That isn't a statement that is true of everywhere. I did software development for in-house projects when I got out of college and didn't work with a single contractor. Check the job boards, maybe you can get reassigned within your own agency to a position where you are actually developing something.

solved:

Is this rotten.com or something? people getting off to gore now around here?

Um... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this rotten.com or something? people getting
> off to gore now around here?

Something tells me that was meant for the "pesky deer" thread.

You will have to excuse ITrade, he is one of our youngest posters and seldom makes intelligent posts.

Blessed are the murderous.

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>


This isn't the pesky deer thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2009 11:48AM by ffxstoner.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i sort glass.


But we won't throw you away.

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I work for Initech.




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > i sort glass.
>
>
> But we won't throw you away.

I love you guys. I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers that.

I am a professional dog-walker, and I make $150K/yr. If you don't have TS/SCI CLEARANCE you only make $130K though. If you are not cleared we'll put'cha "on the bench" until you are and your piss is clean (Gravis!).

nakedshoplifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a professional dog-walker, and I make
> $150K/yr. If you don't have TS/SCI CLEARANCE you
> only make $130K though. If you are not cleared
> we'll put'cha "on the bench" until you are and
> your piss is clean (Gravis!).


Those must be some top secret breed of dogs.

Blessed are the murderous.

Try walking gerbils. Besides good pay, there's "hidden" benefits.

----------------------------
Attachments:

nakedshoplifter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a professional dog-walker, and I make
> $150K/yr. If you don't have TS/SCI CLEARANCE you
> only make $130K though. If you are not cleared
> we'll put'cha "on the bench" until you are and
> your piss is clean (Gravis!).


Hmmm, I'm supposed to be getting TS/SCI with poly. So you're saying that once that actually happens, I can make $150,000 walking very special dogs? What's the catch? The job is in Afghanistan? ;-)

No experience? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Only google and microsoft paid close to $100,000
> to new grads. they aren't paying anything now
> since they aren't taking new hires.

Microsoft is still hiring and they only paid close to 100k for new grads in very specific cases.

boredom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Microsoft is still hiring and they only paid close
> to 100k for new grads in very specific cases.

yeah, apparently you have to be able to use every buzz word from the last 20 years. seriously, i got a call from some microsoft HR person and i couldnt believe the number of buzz words she threw out. it was hard to not laugh. i must not have enough synergize enough to get the proper paradigm shift in order to be a "microsoftee".


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Two industries that use heavy buzz words; drug dealing and computer software.

Lurker. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Two industries that use heavy buzz words; drug
> dealing and computer software.

yeah... but it's the people that arent actually making the software that go buzzword crazy. then again, i dont work for microsoft.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I would like to know how much to expect to make finacially if I am coming fomr a top tier private engineering college with a master degree in Computer Science and Engineering.

I dont have too much experience but I am studying software engineering and crytopgraphy data securty...

whaca! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would like to know how much to expect to make
> finacially if I am coming fomr a top tier private
> engineering college with a master degree in
> Computer Science and Engineering.
>
> I dont have too much experience but I am studying
> software engineering and crytopgraphy data
> securty...

...And failed at spelling and grammar? If you can't communicate well, you're not going to compete well. Tell Mom you're not going to move out of the basement after all.

Hello, My Name is Trevor. I'm a "freshmen" at TCC in Virginia, currently progressing to recieve my Bachelor's in Information Systems Technology. I recently turned a paper in and was looking at some of the links my paper replied back. This site was one of several that made me say 'Hey, I'm heading in the right direction!"
I am interested in any available internships or any advice or even a look in the life of a Computer Technician. Please feel free to email me if anyone would like to help me out! Thanks in advance!


yllyboy@gmail.com
twd2326@email.vccs.edu

Oh boy.....

My $0.02:

In case it isn't clear from the posts above, salaries vary widely. This makes sense, because software engineers vary widely. I've known folks with Ph.D.s in CS who couldn't program their way out of a paper bag, and people with no degree (or one in something like, say, history, which you'd think would be useless in IT) who are among the best programmers I know.

And it depends on whether you're working for .gov (with/without clearance, another variable), or as an in-house programmer for industry, or for consultancy, or for a vendor.

If you want to make the biggest bucks, my advice would be to work for a Beltway Bandit for a bit, to find out your strengths and interests. What was fun/interesting in school doesn't necessarily map to the real world.

Don't plan on necessarily having much of a life during this period: it's not impossible, but if you don't commit to the job, you won't be a star. The good news is, you'll get exposed to lots of stuff you know nothing about (while being billed at $400++/hour to unsuspecting customers, to whom you're described as an "expert"); you'll be traveling (a worthwhile skill to have); and you'll learn how to be customer-facing. Oh, or you'll crash and burn.

Expect to work you ass off, but to learn a *ton*. If you want to.

Assuming you're successful, after 4 years (plus or minus) you'll know that you find databases, or security, or ETL, or some other sub-field most interesting, and likely will have built some actual skills in that area. At that point, either you'll be an SME within your consultancy and be able to start picking and choosing what you do to some extent, or you'll find a vendor in one of those areas and go work there.

Being a sales engineer or implementation person for a vendor is another way to get this kind of accelerated, varied, real-world experience, but is perhaps less "safe", in that if you fail, you're more likely to be on the street: Coops and Loops (now IGS) or Accenture or Bearingpoint don't ever want to say "Yeah, we billed you for someone who was incompetent", so more likely they'll just move you to another project. I suppose if you screw up often enough, you *can* get fired, though I don't hear about it much. I do hear about folks being let go when their project ends or doesn't get renewed; one might guess that if they were superstars, they'd've been moved to another project instead.

Hint: Everyone knows Java, everyone knows .NET, everyone knows C -- those aren't particularly marketable skills. Well, they'll get you jobs, but it's a lot harder to find a company where those are worth big bucks. You need to be useful in some area where it's harder to find good people.

You also need to be able to communicate. Not to pick on "whaca!", but "Mole!" was right on: "If you can't communicate well, you're not going to compete well." Besides the precision required to be productive, you need to be able to write descriptions of what you do, whether in formal documentation or just email. And way too many people cannot do that.

To your original question: programmer for 40 years, professionally for about 35, worked for a series of vendors for the last 30. Current compensation around $190K. No clearance, no degree. Been lucky (and worked hard).

Trevor Daniely Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello, My Name is Trevor. I'm a "freshmen" at TCC
> in Virginia, currently progressing to recieve my
> Bachelor's in Information Systems Technology. I
> recently turned a paper in and was looking at some
> of the links my paper replied back. This site was
> one of several that made me say 'Hey, I'm heading
> in the right direction!"
> I am interested in any available internships or
> any advice or even a look in the life of a
> Computer Technician. Please feel free to email me
> if anyone would like to help me out! Thanks in
> advance!
>
>
> yllyboy@gmail.com
> twd2326@email.vccs.edu



I think there's a perfect opportunity for you: There is a general contractor in the NOVA area who hires illegal - er undocumented - immigrants for day jobs...It is alleged that he kills them after the job is complete....Some days the cops catch wind of it, and send helicopters to circle the area where they think the contractor may be.....but that's just urban legends

Needless to say, the contractor is always looking for fresh talent for his day-projects...

Go wait outside of 7-11 stores, I'm sure you'll find the perfect gig....Your resume probably won't be needed....

It depends... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Hint: Everyone knows Java, everyone knows .NET,
> everyone knows C -- those aren't particularly
> marketable skills. Well, they'll get you jobs, but
> it's a lot harder to find a company where those
> are worth big bucks. You need to be useful in some
> area where it's harder to find good people.
>
> You also need to be able to communicate. Not to
> pick on "whaca!", but "Mole!" was right on: "If
> you can't communicate well, you're not going to
> compete well." Besides the precision required to
> be productive, you need to be able to write
> descriptions of what you do, whether in formal
> documentation or just email. And way too many
> people cannot do that.
>
> To your original question: programmer for 40
> years, professionally for about 35, worked for a
> series of vendors for the last 30. Current
> compensation around $190K. No clearance, no
> degree. Been lucky (and worked hard).

Not "everyone"... its impossible for me to find US Citizen's who are able to obtain a clearance that knows this stuff.

it depends on whether you're working for .gov (with/without clearance, another variable and if you've pyramidded a job and bullshit others where money really comes from and who relly buys the product


no so fast my RTC just said: your lying about how uneducated peopel end up with $1,000,000 homes and i know a few

and i know they cheat like shit

JustanFYI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not "everyone"... its impossible for me to find US
> Citizen's who are able to obtain a clearance that
> knows this stuff.

Now that I think of it, our people don't have clearances, and it's astounding how many of them aren't U.S. citizens, so yeah, I could believe this is a big problem.

Meanwhile (and this is not presented to refute what you said!), I see folks whining about how few jobs there are out there, how H1B holders are getting all the jobs, etc.

I know getting a clearance can be a big problem, since it's expensive and you're on the bench while going through the process. I talked to a Hertz employee last year who told me he was leaving Hertz in a couple of weeks because his clearance had finally come through, and he was starting his "real job" (not in programming).

I think the lesson here for the OP is, "If you get any chance to get a clearance, go for it!"

H1bs and L1s are guest workers. They generally pose competition for junior-level IT people with 1-3 years experience. Last week, I ran across a guy who was claiming he was bringing in immigrants and training them 2.5-3 years before contracting them out to his clients. It sounds like the L1 visa scam where they pretend to be in training on in-house projects but are actually being billed out to clients. IBM India got caught and now are going through mass layoffs.

I like this development. Thanks!

On the topic of languages, we generally aren't impressed with a bucket list of languages. There are really only a few programming "schemes" (procedural, object-oriented, event-driven, et al). You should be able to explain why you might pick one scheme over another and explain basic computer science concepts. You can learn a new language but you shouldn't have to learn why you want a linked-list, hash, red-black tree or union-find.

Same applies to networking people, don't give me a laundry list of protocols. Why would you use one protocol over another? What are the differences? Which are link-state and which are distance vector? If you can't tell me something as basic as that, I don't know if you really understand the material.

It depends... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JustanFYI Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not "everyone"... its impossible for me to find
> US
> > Citizen's who are able to obtain a clearance
> that
> > knows this stuff.
>
> Now that I think of it, our people don't have
> clearances, and it's astounding how many of them
> aren't U.S. citizens, so yeah, I could believe
> this is a big problem.
>
> Meanwhile (and this is not presented to refute
> what you said!), I see folks whining about how few
> jobs there are out there, how H1B holders are
> getting all the jobs, etc.
>
> I know getting a clearance can be a big problem,
> since it's expensive and you're on the bench while
> going through the process. I talked to a Hertz
> employee last year who told me he was leaving
> Hertz in a couple of weeks because his clearance
> had finally come through, and he was starting his
> "real job" (not in programming).
>
> I think the lesson here for the OP is, "If you get
> any chance to get a clearance, go for it!"

No need to put them on the bench waiting. These folks can keep whatever job they currently have an accept a contingent offer upon receiving a clearance. Once the clearance comes through, contingency is lifted, they give notice, and can slide over. The process is easy, finding ones that can actually QUALIFY and PASS the clearance is a different story.

On that note, education doesn't make any damn bit of difference. It can be substituted with additional experience or military background. I know plenty of HS grads without a single semester pedaling $150k+.

JustanFYI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It depends... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JustanFYI Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Not "everyone"... its impossible for me to
> find
> > US
> > > Citizen's who are able to obtain a clearance
> > that
> > > knows this stuff.
> >
> > Now that I think of it, our people don't have
> > clearances, and it's astounding how many of
> them
> > aren't U.S. citizens, so yeah, I could believe
> > this is a big problem.
> >
> > Meanwhile (and this is not presented to refute
> > what you said!), I see folks whining about how
> few
> > jobs there are out there, how H1B holders are
> > getting all the jobs, etc.
> >
> > I know getting a clearance can be a big
> problem,
> > since it's expensive and you're on the bench
> while
> > going through the process. I talked to a Hertz
> > employee last year who told me he was leaving
> > Hertz in a couple of weeks because his
> clearance
> > had finally come through, and he was starting
> his
> > "real job" (not in programming).
> >
> > I think the lesson here for the OP is, "If you
> get
> > any chance to get a clearance, go for it!"
>
> No need to put them on the bench waiting. These
> folks can keep whatever job they currently have an
> accept a contingent offer upon receiving a
> clearance. Once the clearance comes through,
> contingency is lifted, they give notice, and can
> slide over. The process is easy, finding ones
> that can actually QUALIFY and PASS the clearance
> is a different story.
>
> On that note, education doesn't make any damn bit
> of difference. It can be substituted with
> additional experience or military background. I
> know plenty of HS grads without a single semester
> pedaling $150k+.

Justan, what companies are paying HS grads $150+ ?????????

Please help us out here. I have a M.S. and a TS/SCI and feel lucky to be making 120k. Employers are pleading poverty that they can't pay any more. If what you say is true, please name the companies! If it is a government contract, what are the agencies?

They probably made low salaries for a long time and eventually moved up the ranks to where they are today. They would no longer be considered software engineers, programmers, etc., except for a person I know who runs a 1-person IT shop. He started out at the same government contractor as myself but made less than 20K.

Rekurl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
you are
> talking about computer geek types that speaker
> jibberish half the time and have odd social
> skills.
>

^ This.. The majority are socially retarded..damn good paying job, but just boring as shit. 20 years doing this and someday's I feel i'd be happier unloading trucks.

YOLO


Every day sends future to past. Every step brings me closer to my last.




Hopefully that extra 30k - 60k was worth it.

Boring ass job Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ This.. The majority are socially retarded..damn
> good paying job, but just boring as shit. 20 years
> doing this and someday's I feel i'd be happier
> unloading trucks.

I feel sorry for you, dude. You're in the wrong job for you, or at least the wrong job in this industry. I do different stuff every day, learn something fascinating every day, talk to customers, get to travel -- I can't imagine a more interesting job!

Yeah, lots of programmers are socially inept. They're part of the fun...

It depends... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boring ass job Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ^ This.. The majority are socially
> retarded..damn
> > good paying job, but just boring as shit. 20
> years
> > doing this and someday's I feel i'd be happier
> > unloading trucks.
>
> I feel sorry for you, dude. You're in the wrong
> job for you, or at least the wrong job in this
> industry. I do different stuff every day, learn
> something fascinating every day, talk to
> customers, get to travel -- I can't imagine a more
> interesting job!
>
> Yeah, lots of programmers are socially inept.
> They're part of the fun...

What job do you have?

bored IT guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What job do you have?

I work for a software vendor. See my initial post, there's lots of interesting stuff to do in this business!

It depends... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boring ass job Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ^ This.. The majority are socially
> retarded..damn
> > good paying job, but just boring as shit. 20
> years
> > doing this and someday's I feel i'd be happier
> > unloading trucks.
>
> I feel sorry for you, dude. You're in the wrong
> job for you, or at least the wrong job in this
> industry. I do different stuff every day, learn
> something fascinating every day, talk to
> customers, get to travel -- I can't imagine a more
> interesting job!
>
> Yeah, lots of programmers are socially inept.
> They're part of the fun...


Travel is a pain in the ass, the older you get you'll understand. I loved it in my early 20's. I Was sent to all of the major cities, loved it. Not so much anymore. Then dealing with fucking programmers! Most of them smell, have dandruff, would rather play a video game vs going out and having a few beers and getting laid on travel..Yeah, real fun bunch.
Damn good paying job, but it's not for me anymore.

good ol' days Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Travel is a pain in the ass, the older you get
> you'll understand. I loved it in my early 20's. I
> Was sent to all of the major cities, loved it. Not
> so much anymore. Then dealing with fucking
> programmers! Most of them smell, have dandruff,
> would rather play a video game vs going out and
> having a few beers and getting laid on
> travel..Yeah, real fun bunch.
> Damn good paying job, but it's not for me anymore.

Jesus, I'm in my 50s, how much older do I have to get? Yeah, travel isn't what it once was, but it's like anything else: get good at it and you'll enjoy it more.

I do know a couple of programmers who smell; that's what email is for. Dandruff? Gee, I don't make out with them.

I dunno, your experience is your experience, but it's not mine.

And yeah, I realize I sound like a shill for "BECOME A PROGRAMMER AND SEE THE WORLD!" Inc., but of course that makes no sense. Maybe I'm just warped...

^ Sounds like you're are the exception, not the norm.

Last time I traveled was 4 years ago, went to Morocco, YAWN.

It depends... Wrote:
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> I do know a couple of programmers who smell;
> that's what email is for. Dandruff? Gee, I don't
> make out with them.
>

Every chink programmer has a shit load of dandruff. They leave a pile of it on the keyboard, You notice it from 6ft away.

I've seen the world also because of my job, I'm very thankful for that. I just can't deal with the fucking geeks anymore.

160k w/ ts .net developer 34 years old 14 years of experience.

progeamzxx Wrote:
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> 160k w/ ts .net developer 34 years old 14 years of
> experience.


Do you have Dandruff?

underpaid Wrote:
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>
> Justan, what companies are paying HS grads $150+
> ?????????
>
> Please help us out here. I have a M.S. and a
> TS/SCI and feel lucky to be making 120k.
> Employers are pleading poverty that they can't pay
> any more. If what you say is true, please name
> the companies! If it is a government contract,
> what are the agencies?

It's not so much the agency as it is you being able to properly negotiate and bringing value in something that the employer needs and can't easily find elsewhere (hence, Citizenship and Clearance I stated earlier). If you are one of many out there, you won't have much luck. But if they are struggling to find more and you are loved by the customer, than you can negotiate just about anything. It also helps if you understand the bill rates, wrap rates, and what the bottom line margin needs to be in order for the company to cover their OH on you and still make some coin. If you can figure out the math, then you can figure out your salary max.

The same strategy can be applied to buying a car, furniture, or anything else. Knowing exactly what their cost is so that you can negotiate the best price and come out ahead.

Best of luck.

I'm a beginner, so I work on a small projects, and get experience