Quite a few will close if the meals tax passes.

The few survivors will be places like Sea Pearl, already more or less subsidized by INOVA and FCPS.

None due to meals tax

They'll just pass it on to the rest of us.

Then in a few years the county will come back to raise it to 6% instead of 4% as they want more money for the next set of "priorities" the county actually has no business being involved with.

We're looking more and more like a southern outpost of New Jersey.

Need more guidos Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They'll just pass it on to the rest of us.
>
> Then in a few years the county will come back to
> raise it to 6% instead of 4% as they want more
> money for the next set of "priorities" the county
> actually has no business being involved with.
>
> We're looking more and more like a southern
> outpost of New Jersey.

Yep. After ruining things here for good, the libs will then move even further south...

Chick-fil-a will survive!

The meals tax is a wonderful tax that will benefit everyone. History has proven this over and over. When the town of Vienna did this years ago they ended up with more restaurants than ever and out of town visitors contributed the vast majority of those taxes. Fairfax should have done this years ago.

Restaurants won't close due to a meal's tax. People who go out to eat won't stop going.

It reminds me of years back when VA outlawed smoking in restaurants and bars with restaurants. The restaurants weren't hurt and aren't lacking business because of it.

Wishful thinking. The meals tax proposal failed big last time it was proposed, and there is no indication it will be different now. With only 30% of voters having kids in public school, they would need a larger support base to pass it.

Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon and Fairfax City. Manassas and Manassas Park have one, right along with Falls Church City, Arlington, Alexandria, and the District. Restaurants have kept on rocking in all this places. The tax is just a way to shift some of the revenue burden off of property owners.

We need the tax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon and Fairfax
> City. Manassas and Manassas Park have one, right
> along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> Alexandria, and the District. Restaurants have
> kept on rocking in all this places. The tax is
> just a way to shift some of the revenue burden off
> of property owners.

How will this shift take place? Lower property taxes? LOL.

What do we need the tax for? School administrator trips to Orlando?

EVERY non-required thing in school (e.g., football, cheerleading, marching band, and so on) should have a fee attached to it that not only covers its cost IN FULL but provides at minimum of a 20% surcharge. If people want all of these frills, let them pay for them.

please explain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need the tax Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon and
> Fairfax
> > City. Manassas and Manassas Park have one,
> right
> > along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> > Alexandria, and the District. Restaurants have
> > kept on rocking in all this places. The tax is
> > just a way to shift some of the revenue burden
> off
> > of property owners.
>
> How will this shift take place? Lower property
> taxes? LOL.
>
> What do we need the tax for? School administrator
> trips to Orlando?
>
> EVERY non-required thing in school (e.g.,
> football, cheerleading, marching band, and so on)
> should have a fee attached to it that not only
> covers its cost IN FULL but provides at minimum of
> a 20% surcharge. If people want all of these
> frills, let them pay for them.

Marching Band is a class (NOT a "frill") and you can't charge a 20% surcharge for a class. You can only charge for certain things, and they have to be at cost. You can't use a class as a fundraiser.

I believe activities can also only be charged at cost. Of course, they pay for overnight parties/"meetings" at nice hotels for the coaches at top dollar out of the fees paid. I guess an expensive sleepover is essential. They can't just have meetings in one of the 200 buildings they have at their disposal, go home for the night to sleep and eat dinner and breakfast, and then come back the next day for another meeting. Apparently they are getting work done sleeping in those cushy king beds, so the public has to pay for those.

54321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> please explain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We need the tax Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon and
> > Fairfax
> > > City. Manassas and Manassas Park have one,
> > right
> > > along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> > > Alexandria, and the District. Restaurants
> have
> > > kept on rocking in all this places. The tax
> is
> > > just a way to shift some of the revenue
> burden
> > off
> > > of property owners.
> >
> > How will this shift take place? Lower property
> > taxes? LOL.
> >
> > What do we need the tax for? School
> administrator
> > trips to Orlando?
> >
> > EVERY non-required thing in school (e.g.,
> > football, cheerleading, marching band, and so
> on)
> > should have a fee attached to it that not only
> > covers its cost IN FULL but provides at minimum
> of
> > a 20% surcharge. If people want all of these
> > frills, let them pay for them.
>
> Marching Band is a class (NOT a "frill") and you
> can't charge a 20% surcharge for a class. You can
> only charge for certain things, and they have to
> be at cost. You can't use a class as a
> fundraiser.
>
> I believe activities can also only be charged at
> cost. Of course, they pay for overnight
> parties/"meetings" at nice hotels for the coaches
> at top dollar out of the fees paid. I guess an
> expensive sleepover is essential. They can't just
> have meetings in one of the 200 buildings they
> have at their disposal, go home for the night to
> sleep and eat dinner and breakfast, and then come
> back the next day for another meeting. Apparently
> they are getting work done sleeping in those cushy
> king beds, so the public has to pay for those.

What is the regulation, please, stating what charges can be made?

And marching band is a frill-get rids of football, no more marching band. If they want to teach music, that's fine, but the marching part, the band camp part, etc., that's all frills.

You taxpayers are MY PROPERTY! Now STFU, bow down, and pay your taxes, dammit!

We need the tax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon and Fairfax
> City. Manassas and Manassas Park have one, right
> along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> Alexandria, and the District. Restaurants have
> kept on rocking in all this places. The tax is
> just a way to shift some of the revenue burden off
> of property owners.


You are clueless. Ask anyone who actually owns an independent restaurant how hard it is to do business in Vienna, Herndon, and Fairfax City compared with Fairfax County.

The failure rate of restaurants - new and existing - in these jurisdictions is far higher than in Fairfax County.

Then compare the chains, for example, the McDonald's on Pickett Road in Fairfax City versus the one in Fairfax County at Kings Park near Braddock Road.

Or the Outback on Braddock Road in Fairfax County versus the Outback in Fairfax City. Oops, too late for that.

not so fast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> And marching band is a frill-get rids of football,
> no more marching band. If they want to teach
> music, that's fine, but the marching part, the
> band camp part, etc., that's all frills.

Marching Band is not a frill, the Band class is required to also be the Marching Band which generally plays during half time during the Football games. They often compete locally and sometimes travel, but this is all down with funds raised via car washes or other activities.

The kids pay for uniforms as I recall. The kids practice outside of the Band class for Marching Band after school. Marching Band is a subset of Band Class which is a normal daytime class that is graded just like Math or English.

Organized school sports is important to keep the kids involved and out of trouble. Cut out all the after school Sports, guess what, you will not like the outcome and the community will suffer.

Marching Band saved my life.

If it weren't for the tuba, I'd be in prison or dead now.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2016 09:17AM by chuckhoffmann.

We need the tax Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon and Fairfax
> City. Manassas and Manassas Park have one, right
> along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> Alexandria, and the District. Restaurants have
> kept on rocking in all this places. The tax is
> just a way to shift some of the revenue burden off
> of property owners.

The only real reason for a statement like that is that you have not been paying attention for 10 years or are just plain stupid. John Cook has admitted that the meal tax will solve none of the budgetary problems and the Fairfax BOS will be coming back to the taxpayers in 2018 for additional increases to the RE taxes even if the meals tax passes. With 70 percent going to the schools the BOS will have approximately $24 million to solve about $100 million of problems they want to solve. The pooch was screwed when the revenue from the tax was not split 50-50 between the Schools and the General Fund. Also, the language in the referendum about tax relief is just plain political bullshit that has no place in an honest political debate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2016 11:51PM by Inquisitive One.

People gotta eat!

For those who say they will boycott eating at restaurants, they will just be a fart in the wind and have no measurable effect as usual.

Suck it up buttercup and pay the taxman, or stay at home and re-heat your Spaghetti-Os on the hotplate.

Inquisitive One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We need the tax Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon and
> Fairfax
> > City. Manassas and Manassas Park have one,
> right
> > along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> > Alexandria, and the District. Restaurants have
> > kept on rocking in all this places. The tax is
> > just a way to shift some of the revenue burden
> off
> > of property owners.
>
> The only real reason for a statement like that is
> that you have not been paying attention for 10
> years or are just plain stupid. John Cook has
> admitted that the meal tax will solve none of the
> budgetary problems and the Fairfax BOS will be
> coming back to the taxpayers in 2018 for
> additional increases to the RE taxes even if the
> meals tax passes. With 70 percent going to the
> schools the BOS will have approximately $24
> million to solve about $100 million of problems
> they want to solve. The pooch was screwed when the
> revenue from the tax was not split 50-50 between
> the Schools and the General Fund. Also, the
> language in the referendum about tax relief is
> just plain political bullshit that has no place in
> an honest political debate.


It's a subsidy shift for developers and property owners. It avoids the political aspects of taxing property even more based on the premise that 'somebody else' will be paying for it. Which isn't true for the most part. The vast majority will be paid by local residents.

.
Attachments:

VhcK6 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inquisitive One Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We need the tax Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon and
> > Fairfax
> > > City. Manassas and Manassas Park have one,
> > right
> > > along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> > > Alexandria, and the District. Restaurants
> have
> > > kept on rocking in all this places. The tax
> is
> > > just a way to shift some of the revenue
> burden
> > off
> > > of property owners.
> >
> > The only real reason for a statement like that
> is
> > that you have not been paying attention for 10
> > years or are just plain stupid. John Cook has
> > admitted that the meal tax will solve none of
> the
> > budgetary problems and the Fairfax BOS will be
> > coming back to the taxpayers in 2018 for
> > additional increases to the RE taxes even if
> the
> > meals tax passes. With 70 percent going to the
> > schools the BOS will have approximately $24
> > million to solve about $100 million of problems
> > they want to solve. The pooch was screwed when
> the
> > revenue from the tax was not split 50-50
> between
> > the Schools and the General Fund. Also, the
> > language in the referendum about tax relief is
> > just plain political bullshit that has no place
> in
> > an honest political debate.
>
>
> It's a subsidy shift for developers and property
> owners. It avoids the political aspects of taxing
> property even more based on the premise that
> 'somebody else' will be paying for it. Which
> isn't true for the most part. The vast majority
> will be paid by local residents.

It is not a subsidy shift because no budgetary problems will be solved. In the 2017 budget the School system will get their $60 million and the County will patch together a budget using the $24 million from the remaining funds from the meals tax while solving none of the lingering general obligation problems such as police reforms and paying for fire fighters that is currently paid with grants. In 2018 we will be back in the RE tax increase routine with the school board requesting increases (what else?) and the BOS dealing with 3 year old financial problems.

If we want to lure illegals and their votes for democrats here, we need to buy more luxury housing to offer them for free, as well as more free meals, free health care, and Spanish-speaking teachers. This costs money, you dumbfuck taxpayers, so pay up!

not so fast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 54321 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > please explain Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > We need the tax Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon and
> > > Fairfax
> > > > City. Manassas and Manassas Park have one,
> > > right
> > > > along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> > > > Alexandria, and the District. Restaurants
> > have
> > > > kept on rocking in all this places. The
> tax
> > is
> > > > just a way to shift some of the revenue
> > burden
> > > off
> > > > of property owners.
> > >
> > > How will this shift take place? Lower
> property
> > > taxes? LOL.
> > >
> > > What do we need the tax for? School
> > administrator
> > > trips to Orlando?
> > >
> > > EVERY non-required thing in school (e.g.,
> > > football, cheerleading, marching band, and so
> > on)
> > > should have a fee attached to it that not
> only
> > > covers its cost IN FULL but provides at
> minimum
> > of
> > > a 20% surcharge. If people want all of these
> > > frills, let them pay for them.
> >
> > Marching Band is a class (NOT a "frill") and
> you
> > can't charge a 20% surcharge for a class. You
> can
> > only charge for certain things, and they have
> to
> > be at cost. You can't use a class as a
> > fundraiser.
> >
> > I believe activities can also only be charged
> at
> > cost. Of course, they pay for overnight
> > parties/"meetings" at nice hotels for the
> coaches
> > at top dollar out of the fees paid. I guess an
> > expensive sleepover is essential. They can't
> just
> > have meetings in one of the 200 buildings they
> > have at their disposal, go home for the night
> to
> > sleep and eat dinner and breakfast, and then
> come
> > back the next day for another meeting.
> Apparently
> > they are getting work done sleeping in those
> cushy
> > king beds, so the public has to pay for those.
>
> What is the regulation, please, stating what
> charges can be made?
>
> And marching band is a frill-get rids of football,
> no more marching band. If they want to teach
> music, that's fine, but the marching part, the
> band camp part, etc., that's all frills.

You know nothing about competitive marching bands. That has nothing to do with "football". The band only shows up for entertainment. The band has its own competition schedule throughout the year. My band traveled all over the country to compete with other schools. Did you not see the movie "Drumline"?? I don't recall seeing a football game in that movie.

No worries. The restaurants will all be converted to McDonald's so that everyone will have a McDonald's within walking/biking distance from their flat. Drive thrus will become bike thrus. And all will be right with the world.

Bon Appetite

LetsRock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not so fast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 54321 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > please explain Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > We need the tax Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon
> and
> > > > Fairfax
> > > > > City. Manassas and Manassas Park have
> one,
> > > > right
> > > > > along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> > > > > Alexandria, and the District.
> Restaurants
> > > have
> > > > > kept on rocking in all this places. The
> > tax
> > > is
> > > > > just a way to shift some of the revenue
> > > burden
> > > > off
> > > > > of property owners.
> > > >
> > > > How will this shift take place? Lower
> > property
> > > > taxes? LOL.
> > > >
> > > > What do we need the tax for? School
> > > administrator
> > > > trips to Orlando?
> > > >
> > > > EVERY non-required thing in school (e.g.,
> > > > football, cheerleading, marching band, and
> so
> > > on)
> > > > should have a fee attached to it that not
> > only
> > > > covers its cost IN FULL but provides at
> > minimum
> > > of
> > > > a 20% surcharge. If people want all of
> these
> > > > frills, let them pay for them.
> > >
> > > Marching Band is a class (NOT a "frill") and
> > you
> > > can't charge a 20% surcharge for a class. You
> > can
> > > only charge for certain things, and they have
> > to
> > > be at cost. You can't use a class as a
> > > fundraiser.
> > >
> > > I believe activities can also only be charged
> > at
> > > cost. Of course, they pay for overnight
> > > parties/"meetings" at nice hotels for the
> > coaches
> > > at top dollar out of the fees paid. I guess
> an
> > > expensive sleepover is essential. They can't
> > just
> > > have meetings in one of the 200 buildings
> they
> > > have at their disposal, go home for the night
> > to
> > > sleep and eat dinner and breakfast, and then
> > come
> > > back the next day for another meeting.
> > Apparently
> > > they are getting work done sleeping in those
> > cushy
> > > king beds, so the public has to pay for
> those.
> >
> > What is the regulation, please, stating what
> > charges can be made?
> >
> > And marching band is a frill-get rids of
> football,
> > no more marching band. If they want to teach
> > music, that's fine, but the marching part, the
> > band camp part, etc., that's all frills.
>
> You know nothing about competitive marching bands.
> That has nothing to do with "football". The band
> only shows up for entertainment. The band has its
> own competition schedule throughout the year. My
> band traveled all over the country to compete with
> other schools. Did you not see the movie
> "Drumline"?? I don't recall seeing a football
> game in that movie.

I saw Drumline and thought the whole band idea was a stupid waste of money. I still do. If parents/kids want this, let them pay for it. Music classes are fine, all of this peripheral stuff is not. I don't, by the way, recall seeing any violins or pianos in marching bands.

What will FCPS do when the meals tax does not pass? Will they threaten a hunger strike at Gatehouse?

"What is the regulation, please, stating what charges can be made?"


http://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title8/agency20/chapter720/section80/

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9WMGSZ448B3B/$file/N5922%202015-2016%20fees.pdf

8y9zy6 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "What is the regulation, please, stating what
> charges can be made?"
>
>
> http://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title8/agenc
> y20/chapter720/section80/
>
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/fi
> les/9WMGSZ448B3B/$file/N5922%202015-2016%20fees.pd
> f


http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/9PELVL583F70/$file/R5810.pdf

X4Ghj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not so fast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > And marching band is a frill-get rids of
> football,
> > no more marching band. If they want to teach
> > music, that's fine, but the marching part, the
> > band camp part, etc., that's all frills.
>
> Marching Band is not a frill, the Band class is
> required to also be the Marching Band which
> generally plays during half time during the
> Football games. They often compete locally and
> sometimes travel, but this is all down with funds
> raised via car washes or other activities.
>
> The kids pay for uniforms as I recall. The kids
> practice outside of the Band class for Marching
> Band after school. Marching Band is a subset of
> Band Class which is a normal daytime class that is
> graded just like Math or English.
>
> Organized school sports is important to keep the
> kids involved and out of trouble. Cut out all the
> after school Sports, guess what, you will not like
> the outcome and the community will suffer.

There are also appropriated funds for Marching Bands. Because it is indeed a CLASS. It is in the course catalog. The kids can pay a uniform usage fee and a fee for things they use (consumables).

Have you ever seen football in the course catalog? Don't think so.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2016 09:18AM by chuckhoffmann.

54321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marching Band is a class (NOT a "frill")

Marching band isn't a class. It is an extracurricular activity that is mandatory for kids in certain band classes, just like the science fair is a mandatory activity for kids in certain science classes. For example at Woodson the rule is "Students in the Advanced and Intermediate Bands are required to be in the Marching Band. Students in Concert I (Beginning Band) are not required but may participate". At some schools color guards who are not otherwise involved in the music program are considered to be part of the marching band. I suspect there are some schools that also allow students not in band classes to participate in marching band as musicians. Again this is consistent with extracurricular activities rather than classes.

Mediocre food, bad service or excessive menu prices (pre-tax) will deter far more potential customers than a 4 percent meals tax. My friends and I frequently drive to Vienna and Arlington when we go out to eat, rather than eating at one of the Fairfax County restaurants near our homes. Some prefer restaurants in downtown DC, despite parking costs that far exceed the meals tax.

There is one good argument against a meals tax, which is that it may reduce pressure on Supervisors to operate local government efficiently. That, in turn, will reduce pressure on the School Board to take a harder look at FCPS programs. In other words, people believe the only way to contain County and FCPS spending is to "starve the beast," and a meals tax will slightly reduce their ability to do that. The other arguments being made against the meals tax are weak at best, while the arguments for the meals tax are far more persuasive.

People who are worried about containing County and FCPS budgets should stop fighting the meals tax and instead focus on finding ways to force Supervisors and School Board members to take a hard look at all current costs as well as future direct and indirect costs for all programs.

The County's lines of business analysis is a good start and it's a shame the school system doesn't do anything as thorough. But even the County's lines of business process could be better. For example, how accurately does the County or FCPS allocate its costs among programs? If an executive spends half his time on one program and the rest of his time on 5 other programs, does the County or FCPS allocate half the cost of that executive to the first program? Or are the executive's costs allocated pro rata among dozens of programs in his department? And if the executive works for FCPS instead of the County, are his costs being allocated pro rata among all of the over 180,000 students, even if the executive's time is only spent on programs that benefit 40,000 of them?

County and FCPS employees also are very reluctant to mention let alone estimate likely future costs associated with programs. They are, of course, quick to list contingent future benefits that might result from their programs.

Given that they or their friends might lose their jobs if a program were cut because it wasn't cost-effective or strategically desirable, this is understandable. This means the County and FCPS should make sure that people without similar conflicts of interest explain and quantify the range of full costs - current, future, direct, indirect, and contingent - of each program. Doing that could dramatically change the cost/benefit analysis for County and FCPS programs that currently look like a great idea.

Inquisitive One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> VhcK6 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Inquisitive One Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > We need the tax Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon and
> > > Fairfax
> > > > City. Manassas and Manassas Park have one,
> > > right
> > > > along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> > > > Alexandria, and the District. Restaurants
> > have
> > > > kept on rocking in all this places. The
> tax
> > is
> > > > just a way to shift some of the revenue
> > burden
> > > off
> > > > of property owners.
> > >
> > > The only real reason for a statement like
> that
> > is
> > > that you have not been paying attention for
> 10
> > > years or are just plain stupid. John Cook
> has
> > > admitted that the meal tax will solve none of
> > the
> > > budgetary problems and the Fairfax BOS will
> be
> > > coming back to the taxpayers in 2018 for
> > > additional increases to the RE taxes even if
> > the
> > > meals tax passes. With 70 percent going to
> the
> > > schools the BOS will have approximately $24
> > > million to solve about $100 million of
> problems
> > > they want to solve. The pooch was screwed
> when
> > the
> > > revenue from the tax was not split 50-50
> > between
> > > the Schools and the General Fund. Also, the
> > > language in the referendum about tax relief
> is
> > > just plain political bullshit that has no
> place
> > in
> > > an honest political debate.
> >
> >
> > It's a subsidy shift for developers and
> property
> > owners. It avoids the political aspects of
> taxing
> > property even more based on the premise that
> > 'somebody else' will be paying for it. Which
> > isn't true for the most part. The vast
> majority
> > will be paid by local residents.
>
> It is not a subsidy shift because no budgetary
> problems will be solved. In the 2017 budget the
> School system will get their $60 million and the
> County will patch together a budget using the $24
> million from the remaining funds from the meals
> tax while solving none of the lingering general
> obligation problems such as police reforms and
> paying for fire fighters that is currently paid
> with grants. In 2018 we will be back in the RE
> tax increase routine with the school board
> requesting increases (what else?) and the BOS
> dealing with 3 year old financial problems.


Don't disagree re the eventual outcome but who said that it had to solve all fiscal problems in order to be a subsidy? On that basis pretty much any tax fails including current property taxes.

A meals tax is simply a politically convenient way to shift the tax burden from the primary patrons of the board - developers and property owners. If they don't do that, then they'll have to hit those same groups up for even more to make up the difference that you cite. It's sold to the masses on the basis that 'somebody else' will pay it. Which virtually never is true for meals taxes other than maybe in the case of something like a resort area with a relatively small local population.

8y9zy6 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "What is the regulation, please, stating what
> charges can be made?"
>
>
> http://law.lis.virginia.gov/admincode/title8/agenc
> y20/chapter720/section80/
>
> http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/fi
> les/9WMGSZ448B3B/$file/N5922%202015-2016%20fees.pd
> f

We need to get Section 22.1-6 of the Code of Virginia amended to allow for higher fees for these superfluous activities. Make football, band, cheerleading, student government and the rest of that nonsense not just self supporting, but also a profit center. If FCPS can do a midnight insertion of transgender rights, the same can be done with fee increases.

It is funny that the band parents ranting on here can't make up their minds about what band is or is not. That's easy too, just get rid of it, have regular music classes. If they want band, let them get out their checkbooks and pay for it, do not expect property owners or restaurant patrons to subsidize it.

what's a restaurant?

i only eat at the gov cafeteria built-in to the offices at my gov workplace

FhGDw Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inquisitive One Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > VhcK6 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Inquisitive One Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > We need the tax Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Vienna has a meals tax. So do Herndon
> and
> > > > Fairfax
> > > > > City. Manassas and Manassas Park have
> one,
> > > > right
> > > > > along with Falls Church City, Arlington,
> > > > > Alexandria, and the District.
> Restaurants
> > > have
> > > > > kept on rocking in all this places. The
> > tax
> > > is
> > > > > just a way to shift some of the revenue
> > > burden
> > > > off
> > > > > of property owners.
> > > >
> > > > The only real reason for a statement like
> > that
> > > is
> > > > that you have not been paying attention for
> > 10
> > > > years or are just plain stupid. John Cook
> > has
> > > > admitted that the meal tax will solve none
> of
> > > the
> > > > budgetary problems and the Fairfax BOS will
> > be
> > > > coming back to the taxpayers in 2018 for
> > > > additional increases to the RE taxes even
> if
> > > the
> > > > meals tax passes. With 70 percent going to
> > the
> > > > schools the BOS will have approximately $24
> > > > million to solve about $100 million of
> > problems
> > > > they want to solve. The pooch was screwed
> > when
> > > the
> > > > revenue from the tax was not split 50-50
> > > between
> > > > the Schools and the General Fund. Also, the
> > > > language in the referendum about tax relief
> > is
> > > > just plain political bullshit that has no
> > place
> > > in
> > > > an honest political debate.
> > >
> > >
> > > It's a subsidy shift for developers and
> > property
> > > owners. It avoids the political aspects of
> > taxing
> > > property even more based on the premise that
> > > 'somebody else' will be paying for it. Which
> > > isn't true for the most part. The vast
> > majority
> > > will be paid by local residents.
> >
> > It is not a subsidy shift because no budgetary
> > problems will be solved. In the 2017 budget
> the
> > School system will get their $60 million and
> the
> > County will patch together a budget using the
> $24
> > million from the remaining funds from the meals
> > tax while solving none of the lingering general
> > obligation problems such as police reforms and
> > paying for fire fighters that is currently paid
> > with grants. In 2018 we will be back in the RE
> > tax increase routine with the school board
> > requesting increases (what else?) and the BOS
> > dealing with 3 year old financial problems.
>
>
> Don't disagree re the eventual outcome but who
> said that it had to solve all fiscal problems in
> order to be a subsidy? On that basis pretty much
> any tax fails including current property taxes.
>
> A meals tax is simply a politically convenient way
> to shift the tax burden from the primary patrons
> of the board - developers and property owners. If
> they don't do that, then they'll have to hit those
> same groups up for even more to make up the
> difference that you cite. It's sold to the masses
> on the basis that 'somebody else' will pay it.
> Which virtually never is true for meals taxes
> other than maybe in the case of something like a
> resort area with a relatively small local
> population.

I agree, but how do you get to the point of having some fiscal discipline, particularly with the school board. They arrogantly act like a defiant teenager with the way that the board is managed and their spending habits.

The only thing a school should be used for is the academic education of our youth from grades K-12. No sports. No music. No fields or gyms except for those used by general phys ed classes. No ski trips. No away games. No chess club. No Model U.N. No home economics. No shop class. No FBLA. No running around with your friends experimenting with drugs and alcohol, fixing up old cars or chasing snatch.

You go to school. You go to class. You eat lunch. You go to some more class. You get home and start on homework by 3PM so that you can finish some of it before dinnertime. You eat dinner at 6PM. You go back and finish your homework and you're in bed by 10PM. No TV. No internet, except for homework assistance. No video games. You sleep for 8 hours. You wake up at 6AM. Shower, shit, shave and douche...eat breakfast...and you're out the door again for the next school day.

Weekends start at 10PM Friday, upon completion of the day's homework. After 8 hours of sleep, you wake as always at 6AM which leaves you 16 hours of the day. And the same for Sunday. Parents will design a constructive use of that time, reviewed by the school system to ensure that both the childrens' minds and bodies are grown while away from school. In the event, parents are unwilling or unable to develop a constructive weekend plan for their children, those students shall report to school on Saturdays and Sundays for a regular school day.

Let's see how great America would be then after 12 years of running our public schools that way. While we were worrying about turf fields, Ludwig drums and rowing shells...Al-Qaeda flew planes into our buildings.

OldSkool Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only thing a school should be used for is the
> academic education of our youth from grades K-12.
> No sports. No music. No fields or gyms except for
> those used by general phys ed classes. No ski
> trips. No away games. No chess club. No Model U.N.
> No home economics. No shop class. No FBLA. No
> running around with your friends experimenting
> with drugs and alcohol, fixing up old cars or
> chasing snatch.
>
> You go to school. You go to class. You eat lunch.
> You go to some more class. You get home and start
> on homework by 3PM so that you can finish some of
> it before dinnertime. You eat dinner at 6PM. You
> go back and finish your homework and you're in bed
> by 10PM. No TV. No internet, except for homework
> assistance. No video games. You sleep for 8 hours.
> You wake up at 6AM. Shower, shit, shave and
> douche...eat breakfast...and you're out the door
> again for the next school day.
>
> Weekends start at 10PM Friday, upon completion of
> the day's homework. After 8 hours of sleep, you
> wake as always at 6AM which leaves you 16 hours of
> the day. And the same for Sunday. Parents will
> design a constructive use of that time, reviewed
> by the school system to ensure that both the
> childrens' minds and bodies are grown while away
> from school. In the event, parents are unwilling
> or unable to develop a constructive weekend plan
> for their children, those students shall report to
> school on Saturdays and Sundays for a regular
> school day.
>
> Let's see how great America would be then after 12
> years of running our public schools that way.
> While we were worrying about turf fields, Ludwig
> drums and rowing shells...Al-Qaeda flew planes
> into our buildings.

Let us not forget mindfulness, school board raises, transgender bathrooms, online textbooks, and a fancy building full of overpriced do-nothing administrators with online degrees.

vLWMh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 54321 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Marching Band is a class (NOT a "frill")
>
> Marching band isn't a class. It is an
> extracurricular activity that is mandatory for
> kids in certain band classes, just like the
> science fair is a mandatory activity for kids in
> certain science classes. For example at Woodson
> the rule is "Students in the Advanced and
> Intermediate Bands are required to be in the
> Marching Band. Students in Concert I (Beginning
> Band) are not required but may participate". At
> some schools color guards who are not otherwise
> involved in the music program are considered to be
> part of the marching band. I suspect there are
> some schools that also allow students not in band
> classes to participate in marching band as
> musicians. Again this is consistent with
> extracurricular activities rather than classes.


Band is a class. It is in the course catalog because it is a class. Music education is mandated by the state. Band is NOT an extracurricular activity. There are some things the kids can do that are optional, like travel to Disney, etc., but it is still a class.

1) Music education is mandated, marching band is not. Therefore-marching band pays for itself, pays a little extra, or is discontinued.

2) Physical education is mandated, football and cheerleading are not. Therefore-football and cheerleading pay for themselves, pay a little extra, or is discontinued.

3) Mindfulness is not mandated. We never need to hear about it again.

4) Turf fields are not mandated. If FCPS can't figure out how to fundraise for them, we don't get any more. Maintenance? Well, if they did not plan for that, might have to go back to grass. Sorry.

5) Student government (including student representative to school board) is not mandated. We never need to hear about it again.

6) On-campus fundraising (e.g., Boosterthon) is controversial. If they can put the meals tax on the ballot, let's let the voters decide how much school resources they want devoted to for-profit fundraisers.

7) Homecoming/prom is not mandated. We never need to hear about it again.

8) The administrator:teacher ratio is not mandated. Cut the administration by at least 50%. If things continue to function, cut another 10% each six months. If things fall apart, back out the last round of cuts. This could prove instructive.

9) Roll back the school board raise, make it so that any school board raise must be voted on. FCPS loves the referendum process so much, let 'em have it!

10) **ALL** consulting contracts must be tied to specific, well documented performance targets. Any exception must be approved by a majority vote of the school board (and this vote must be public). If the targets are not met, the consultant is not only not paid, but is barred from further FCPS contracting for a minimum of five years. Payment is NOT made until the consultants' work is evaluated against the provisions of the performance targets.

11) **ALL** sole source contracts with a value greater than $5,000 must be approved by a majority vote of the school board (and this vote must be public). There are NO exceptions to this.

12) Any use of FCPS resources for personal purposes (including election campaigns) is prohibited. Any person found to be using FCPS resources for personal purposes shall a) make restitution to FCPS and b) be terminated from their position. In the case of elected officials, an official found to have used FCPS resources to further their campaign will be prosecuted for misappropriation of public funds if they do not resign.

As Hillary likes to say, it is time to get serious.

Agree. FCPS is out of line. Let's shut them down and start over.

People that eat out a lot wont care. No one on a budget eats out a lot we all buy quality ingredients and prepare our own meals. Its too expensive now anyway - basically $25 per person per meal. Family of 4 cannot afford $1200/month to eat out a few times a week. That would represent a well provisioned food budget for the family for the same price for 30 days instead of 12 days.

People eating out wont give a damn about another 100 bucks a month in taxes.

No one will care about the extra 60 cents for a costco rotisserie chicken either

costco rotisserie chicken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People that eat out a lot wont care. No one on a
> budget eats out a lot we all buy quality
> ingredients and prepare our own meals. Its too
> expensive now anyway - basically $25 per person
> per meal. Family of 4 cannot afford $1200/month
> to eat out a few times a week. That would
> represent a well provisioned food budget for the
> family for the same price for 30 days instead of
> 12 days.
>
> People eating out wont give a damn about another
> 100 bucks a month in taxes.
>
> No one will care about the extra 60 cents for a
> costco rotisserie chicken either

Those chickens are $5.00 that means the 4% meal tax would add $0.20 to the cost not 60 cents. In addition if you spent $1,200.00 per month eating out the 4% tax would cost $48.00 not $100.00

Average US family spends about $225/month eating out - fairfax is probably double that so lets say $550 per month. 4% tax would add about $22.00 per month per family.

Good, if it is not mandated get rid of it. I never saw the appeal or value of marching band anyway.

Few families are actually average. The meals tax would shift County tax burden off of local property owners and onto tourists, commuters, and the wealthy who eat out often and at high-end locations.

I do not favor a meals tax to underwrite marching band.

wake up.......... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Band is a class.

You seem to have a case of SELECTIVE reading. I didn't say band was not a class. I said MARCHING BAND was not a class, at least not in Fairfax County. I have never seen a Fairfax high school catalog that lists Marching Band as a stand alone class for which you get a separate grade and separate credit towards high school graduation.

The problem with your agenda OldSkool is that music, fields and gyms beyond the bare minimum needed for general phys ed classes, shop class, home econimics and extracurriculars such as sports, ski trips, chess club, Model U.N. and FBLA were all part of schools in Fairfax County back when even you would have considerd America to be great and FCPS was considered world class. In addition if you got off your soap box and paid attention you would have found that many top kids run around with their friends experimenting with drugs and alcohol, fix up old cars and chased snatch, are employed for significant hours in the afternoons or on weekends, and/or participate in time demanding activities outside of school and still perform well enough to put them at or near the top of their class...just as the did 10, 20 or 30 years ago. What you are advocating for is something that takes childhood away from children, and subjects them to a regime that probably fewer than 1% of kids educated in America have followed.

The real problem with much of this isn't that it is bad in itself. The problem is that keeping all of it up is getting expensive at a time when many worthwhile non-school governmental programs are being gutted and scrapped due to budget concerns. Rather than arguing inane agendas, let's instead look at this as how can we get the best educational bang for our buck.

I live in Chantilly. We already go to PWC when we eat out. About 10 minutes further but knowing I'm screwing over Fairfax makes it worth the while. I'd expect restaurants close to South Riding and Manassas will take hard hits as many more will cross the county line and take their business out of Fairfax.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wake up.......... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Band is a class.
>
> You seem to have a case of SELECTIVE reading. I
> didn't say band was not a class. I said MARCHING
> BAND was not a class, at least not in Fairfax
> County. I have never seen a Fairfax high school
> catalog that lists Marching Band as a stand alone
> class for which you get a separate grade and
> separate credit towards high school graduation.
>
> The problem with your agenda OldSkool is that
> music, fields and gyms beyond the bare minimum
> needed for general phys ed classes, shop class,
> home econimics and extracurriculars such as
> sports, ski trips, chess club, Model U.N. and FBLA
> were all part of schools in Fairfax County back
> when even you would have considerd America to be
> great and FCPS was considered world class. In
> addition if you got off your soap box and paid
> attention you would have found that many top kids
> run around with their friends experimenting with
> drugs and alcohol, fix up old cars and chased
> snatch, are employed for significant hours in the
> afternoons or on weekends, and/or participate in
> time demanding activities outside of school and
> still perform well enough to put them at or near
> the top of their class...just as the did 10, 20 or
> 30 years ago. What you are advocating for is
> something that takes childhood away from children,
> and subjects them to a regime that probably fewer
> than 1% of kids educated in America have followed.
>
>
> The real problem with much of this isn't that it
> is bad in itself. The problem is that keeping all
> of it up is getting expensive at a time when many
> worthwhile non-school governmental programs are
> being gutted and scrapped due to budget concerns.
> Rather than arguing inane agendas, let's instead
> look at this as how can we get the best
> educational bang for our buck.


FCPS is not interested in educational bang for the buck. The administrators are interested in free fine dining and travel. The school board bilks the training requirement to go to classes all over the country. The helicopter parents promote the football agenda. Educational consultants have the procurement system wired.

And yes the kids suffer. That is why the idea of an FCPS BREXIT is so appealing.

Who the hell needs marching band? Just look at perverts like Jerry Sandusky and Laurence Einuis. No one in their right mind would consider marching band world class music, they probably play cut down arrangements of Taylor Swift songs anyway as well as badly executed versions of Sousa marches.

Meals tax = great idea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The meals tax is a wonderful tax that will benefit
> everyone. History has proven this over and over.
> When the town of Vienna did this years ago they
> ended up with more restaurants than ever and out
> of town visitors contributed the vast majority of
> those taxes. Fairfax should have done this years
> ago.

out of towers? are you kidding me? The restaurants are full on Fairfax Blvd. almost every night and overfull every Friday night. Everyone eats out.

y9HV7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Average US family spends about $225/month eating
> out - fairfax is probably double that so lets say
> $550 per month. 4% tax would add about $22.00 per
> month per family.

All this fuss over 22 bucks a month for better schools.

22 bucks a month for better scho Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> y9HV7 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Average US family spends about $225/month
> eating
> > out - fairfax is probably double that so lets
> say
> > $550 per month. 4% tax would add about $22.00
> per
> > month per family.
>
> All this fuss over 22 bucks a month for better
> schools.

Property taxes went up too, so it is more than $22/month.

There's no guarantee that the extra money will "improve" the schools-more likely, more administrators will be hired, there will be more meetings at Sea Pearl, and more consultants will flock to Fairfax propounding the latest educational dogma.

Oh yes, we may get a new turf field or too, and marching bands will compete more.

someone is delusional Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 22 bucks a month for better scho Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > y9HV7 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Average US family spends about $225/month
> > eating
> > > out - fairfax is probably double that so lets
> > say
> > > $550 per month. 4% tax would add about
> $22.00
> > per
> > > month per family.
> >
> > All this fuss over 22 bucks a month for better
> > schools.
>
> Property taxes went up too, so it is more than
> $22/month.
>
> There's no guarantee that the extra money will
> "improve" the schools-more likely, more
> administrators will be hired, there will be more
> meetings at Sea Pearl, and more consultants will
> flock to Fairfax propounding the latest
> educational dogma.
>
> Oh yes, we may get a new turf field or too, and
> marching bands will compete more.


you mad bro?

The meals tax needs to go the way of the UK's EU membership-GONE.

www.stopthefoodtax.com

However, I don't think it will be taken off the ballot.
This board won't take it off no matter how many people protest it.

Just vote NO .. on the ballot in November if you don't like it.
I never vote for ANY tax increases. There's too much evidence of WASTE in the budget and apparently incompetence or an unwillingness to address base issues which drive costs upward.

YES the meals tax is on the ballot but NO it does not need to pass. It would just be more money for the schools to waste on transgender consultants and what not.

Governments need to learn to recognize when people are FED UP.

y37 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd expect restaurants close to South Riding and
> Manassas will take hard hits as many more will cross
> the county line and take their business out of Fairfax.

Manassas isn't in Fairfax County to begin with, and they already have a 4% meals tax of their own. As does Manassas Park.

Hello??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> y37 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'd expect restaurants close to South Riding
> and
> > Manassas will take hard hits as many more will
> cross
> > the county line and take their business out of
> Fairfax.
>
> Manassas isn't in Fairfax County to begin with,
> and they already have a 4% meals tax of their own.
> As does Manassas Park.


Who said Manassas is part of Fairfax County.

We rarely eat out anyhow, we make meals at home.

Why are we putting on a meals tax so the school board can eat out? They got a raise, let them pay for their own food.

Like another person said, it is hard to see the value of marching band in this day and age.

WE need those revenues, Fairfax now has over 15,000 undocumented alien children and they need education, housing, food. Let's help Obama by supporting this tax so Fairfax can take in another 15,000 undocumented alien children.

cwFpY