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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: KP west resident ()
Date: June 03, 2016 08:41AM

My neighbors have heat pumps and they have saved a ton of money with them. I am scared though because I hear bad things about heat pumps too. I have to decide by Monday. Any opinions would be welcome thank you.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Heating Contractor ()
Date: June 03, 2016 08:57AM

I love heat pumps. They cost a fortune to buy and repair - they've made me rich!

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Heat ()
Date: June 03, 2016 09:00AM

How do you heat the house?

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Huh??? ()
Date: June 03, 2016 09:46AM

I had one installed a 6 years ago and it was a huge mistake. The problem with a heat pump in the winter is when the temperature falls below freezing, it cannot provide heat without turning on an internal, electric heating coil. Use of that coil is extremely inefficient and costly. When I bought the heat pump, the technician informed me of all of this but, I wrongly assumed that NOVA had mild enough winters that I wouldn't need to use the coil that frequently. I was wrong and my winter heating bills are as high as they were prior to installing the heat pump. Never again...

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Douche Magoo ()
Date: June 03, 2016 10:02AM

Heat pumps are great for smaller, well sealed houses. I have two in a house that was built in the 50's. Winter before last I was getting $600 electric bills.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Saved A Ton Of Money?? ()
Date: June 03, 2016 10:03AM

Way more expensive then a gas furnace and A.C. Drafty house when its cold , Electric bill will burn you. When it does get cold here in Mid Jan and Feb Its even worse. With a gas furnace the house can be down to 60, flick the switch turn up the heat and in 20 minutes your warm.

Save money?? ya one stamp a month to mail one bill.. That's it. If youve got gas you got the best.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Lies ()
Date: June 03, 2016 11:25AM

Huh??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had one installed a 6 years ago and it was a
> huge mistake. The problem with a heat pump in the
> winter is when the temperature falls below
> freezing, it cannot provide heat without turning
> on an internal, electric heating coil. Use of that
> coil is extremely inefficient and costly. When I
> bought the heat pump, the technician informed me
> of all of this but, I wrongly assumed that NOVA
> had mild enough winters that I wouldn't need to
> use the coil that frequently. I was wrong and my
> winter heating bills are as high as they were
> prior to installing the heat pump. Never again...

Complete lunatic bullshit. You must have a 30 year old heat pump.

My 4 yr old Rheem doesn't even jump to back up electric heat until the outside temp is down in the low teens which doesn't happen all that often around this area. I have a 14 SEER unit. very happy with the comfort, operation, and cost.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Y4kH7 ()
Date: June 03, 2016 11:33AM

Heat pump with gas back up is the best option assuming you already have gas.

Rather than an electric back up element, it uses the natural gas furnace to heat in REALLY code periods or when the temp has to come up quickly.

Geothermal is the next best option, but it is costly to have the well holes drilled.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Date: June 03, 2016 11:37AM

Y4kH7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat pump with gas back up is the best option
> assuming you already have gas.
>
> Rather than an electric back up element, it uses
> the natural gas furnace to heat in REALLY code
> periods or when the temp has to come up quickly.
>
> Geothermal is the next best option, but it is
> costly to have the well holes drilled.

This.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: KP west resident ()
Date: June 03, 2016 12:39PM

Thanks for the advice.

We have a gas furnace thats about 6 years old. The contractor said the heat pump would heat until it gets below 35 outside and then the gas furnace would take over. My neighbors have this and they seem to love it. Apparently there is a switch on the thermostat that would allow us to use the gas heat anytime we want to so that seems nice. I was just worried because we had a house with no gas and just a heat pump 20+ years ago and it sucked at heating but was fine for cooling.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: vbpE7 ()
Date: June 03, 2016 02:26PM

Can't go wrong with the gas backup furnace.

You will be very happy with the combination and your current gas furnace still has a lot of life left in it.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: JihadJane ()
Date: June 03, 2016 02:40PM

I like to burn Moslems in my large oven in the basement. Keeps the house warm, but smells a bit.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: AGREED! ()
Date: June 03, 2016 03:30PM

Huh??? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had one installed a 6 years ago and it was a
> huge mistake. The problem with a heat pump in the
> winter is when the temperature falls below
> freezing, it cannot provide heat without turning
> on an internal, electric heating coil. Use of that
> coil is extremely inefficient and costly. When I
> bought the heat pump, the technician informed me
> of all of this but, I wrongly assumed that NOVA
> had mild enough winters that I wouldn't need to
> use the coil that frequently. I was wrong and my
> winter heating bills are as high as they were
> prior to installing the heat pump. Never again...

+1

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: hvac man ()
Date: June 03, 2016 05:45PM

KP west resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My neighbors have heat pumps and they have saved a
> ton of money with them. I am scared though because
> I hear bad things about heat pumps too. I have to
> decide by Monday. Any opinions would be welcome
> thank you.


Gas furnaces are filthy and dangerous. Get rid of all your gas appliances and have the gas capped off at the street. Even a 13 seer heat pump is far more efficient than a gas furnace.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: UDW9D ()
Date: June 03, 2016 06:02PM

hvac man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KP west resident Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My neighbors have heat pumps and they have saved
> a
> > ton of money with them. I am scared though
> because
> > I hear bad things about heat pumps too. I have
> to
> > decide by Monday. Any opinions would be welcome
> > thank you.
>
>
> Gas furnaces are filthy and dangerous. Get rid of
> all your gas appliances and have the gas capped
> off at the street. Even a 13 seer heat pump is far
> more efficient than a gas furnace.


Not sure what you are smoking????

Even a high SEER system is going to have problems when the temps are below freezing. At least with a gas backup you have options. If the high SEER system is SO efficient, then the gas backup will never be commanded on.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: hvac man ()
Date: June 03, 2016 06:07PM

UDW9D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hvac man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > KP west resident Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > My neighbors have heat pumps and they have
> saved
> > a
> > > ton of money with them. I am scared though
> > because
> > > I hear bad things about heat pumps too. I
> have
> > to
> > > decide by Monday. Any opinions would be
> welcome
> > > thank you.
> >
> >
> > Gas furnaces are filthy and dangerous. Get rid
> of
> > all your gas appliances and have the gas capped
> > off at the street. Even a 13 seer heat pump is
> far
> > more efficient than a gas furnace.
>
>
> Not sure what you are smoking????
>
> Even a high SEER system is going to have problems
> when the temps are below freezing. At least with a
> gas backup you have options. If the high SEER
> system is SO efficient, then the gas backup will
> never be commanded on.


You have just proven beyond any doubt that you have no clue whatsoever with regards to hvac.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Gas Is Great ()
Date: June 03, 2016 07:58PM

>I was just worried because we had a house with no gas and just a heat pump 20+ years ago and it sucked at heating but was fine for cooling.

And that's right, There a Very Expensive AC unit that's not worth a damn for heating. Stick with your gas furnace, at 6 years old its still fairly fresh as they last a good 12-20 years. You need a new AC unit get one. Way less money then a heat pump. Heat Pumps are good if your in the country with No Gas. Other wise they suck.

Green freaks hate gas, they think there going to become billionaires with windpower and solar..and want to get rid of gas and coal.."Complete lunatic bullshit" !

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: MjUEF ()
Date: June 03, 2016 08:03PM

Gas Is Great Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >I was just worried because we had a house with no
> gas and just a heat pump 20+ years ago and it
> sucked at heating but was fine for cooling.
>
> And that's right, There a Very Expensive AC unit
> that's not worth a damn for heating. Stick with
> your gas furnace, at 6 years old its still fairly
> fresh as they last a good 12-20 years. You need a
> new AC unit get one. Way less money then a heat
> pump. Heat Pumps are good if your in the country
> with No Gas. Other wise they suck.
>
> Green freaks hate gas, they think there going to
> become billionaires with windpower and solar..and
> want to get rid of gas and coal.."Complete lunatic
> bullshit" !


Yep. I'm in the country where gas doesn't go. I have hydronic oil to backup my heat pump, but I do the switchover manually.

Gas is the cat's meow. If you have gas, run with it. Even if you get a fancy schmancy heat pump with gas backup, the monthly hookup fee to Washington gas will eat up whatever savings you'd achieve with the heat pump in moderate weather.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Gas Is Great ()
Date: June 03, 2016 08:28PM

And if the power goes out with a heat pump. No heat..unless you've got a generator with a diesel truck engine that puts out 220 volts and 50 amps.

With a regular gas furnace you can get a small light very quite Honda 110 V portable generator like what they use with Food trucks, and a manual transfer switch wired by a electrician and a new AC unit with loads of money to spare over a heat pump. That's enough to keep the house warm in the coldest winter as long as you've got gasoline for the generator..

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200585499_200585499?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Generators%20%3E%20Inverter%20Generators&utm_campaign=Honda%20Power%20Equipment&utm_content=165020&gclid=CJTDitmNjc0CFUxZhgodv9AI8Q

https://www.zoro.com/generac-manual-transfer-switch-60a-125250v-6380/i/G2922464/?gclid=CPeL3IaOjc0CFcxZhgodFKkGTQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

Or you can get a installed natural gas powered generator with an automatic transfer switch that will keep you warm in winter and cool in summer running the AC and break even with what a heat pump will cost you.

https://www.zoro.com/generac-automatic-standby-generator-16kw-6721/i/G7459085/

Let the neighbors sweat or freeze it out in electric outages with their heat pumps..

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: building engineer ()
Date: June 04, 2016 08:18AM

This debate is akin to the great one of the ages: chocolate vs. vanilla, cats vs. dogs, Cubs vs. White Sox....and now heat pumps vs. furnaces. ;-)

In this part of the country the best choice for a given home can swing either way. Nobody in Atlanta Ga needs a gas furnace and nobody in Bangor Maine needs a heat pump but here we can go either way.

In a poorly insulated Kings park west house it would make sense to keep the furnace but by all means buy a heat pump if you need a new A/C anyway. Most hvac manufacturers make only heat pump indoor coils as they can be used on straight A/C units as well. The difference in installation cost should be minimal. The much higher efficiency of the heat pump will pay you back quickly and you will still have the toasty warm gas furnace in the frigid temps.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: 7JCtw ()
Date: June 04, 2016 08:48AM

hvac man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have just proven beyond any doubt that you
> have no clue whatsoever with regards to hvac.

You are the one with no clue and are a subpar HVAC man!

Gas is dirty and dangerous. I have lived ALL my life with gas heat and appliances. I will not buy a house without gas.

Gas adds value and marketability to a property.

The original poster has gas, has a gas furnace that is 6 years old, it is likely a 80-90% efficient furnace. They should stick with their current furnace and install a heat pump. Then they have the best of both worlds and at the end of the day will have the best ability to have cost effective heat.

Not electric heat elements when the Polar Vortex shows up, the house can be brought up to temperature quickly, if the heat pump fails or has problems in the Winter, they have the full gas furnace that can do the job of heating the house.

As mentioned during major power failures, a small, portable generator can keep the house warm.

This is a no brainer, heat pump with gas back up all day long.

HVAC man, McDonld's is hiring!

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: HVAC Man is a crook ()
Date: June 04, 2016 08:49AM

KP west resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the advice.
>
> We have a gas furnace thats about 6 years old.


Then a heat pump is a waste of money, now and in future maintenance.

Change your filters monthly and live happy.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: hvac man ()
Date: June 04, 2016 09:23AM

Gas kills!
Attachments:
old_natgas_pipeline_toon1-1024x743.jpg

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: No way! ()
Date: June 04, 2016 09:34AM

Heat pumps don't work in this area. It gets too cold.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Get a hybrid heat pump/furnace ()
Date: June 04, 2016 09:49AM

Go ask HVAC contractor Mann In for an assessment and quote for your new AC.

I recommend a hybrid. In the winter the heat pump runs until about 30 degrees, and then the gas furnace kicks in when it is colder than that. You get the efficiency of the heat pump for80% of the unit's run time. And you can count on true warmth from the gas furnace when we experience those few bitter cold weeks each year.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: hvac man ()
Date: June 04, 2016 01:31PM

These people in these homes sure wish they never had natural gas.

Fuck natural gas and fuck propane too.
Attachments:
gasFICGAS-master1050.jpg

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: yKkJk ()
Date: June 04, 2016 01:54PM

hvac man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These people in these homes sure wish they never
> had natural gas.
>
> Fuck natural gas and fuck propane too.

Propane is heavier than air and is a bit more dangerous than Natural gas.

Gas is only dangerous when it is not handled properly and installations are poorly done.

I have a friends father that was a lawyer for Washington Gas for 30 years and only a hand full of natural gas explosions in houses during this time. I actually went to check out the aftermath of one house that was totally leveled.

The older lady was in bed when the house went up. Her water heater was replaced a few days before this happened by some Sears contractor as I recall.

The good thing was the woman survived, but was almost smothered in insulation and debris, then the fire department showed up and tried to drown her while she was trapped in the debris. But at the end of the day she survived.

With the number of gas appliances installed and the few mishaps that are almost always due to poor workmanship during installation and repair, natural gas is in fact safe.

As far as CO poisoning, like anything have one or more working CO detectors and make sure during the heavy snow and ice that the vents are clear and there is no ice building up in high efficiency power vent exhaust lines. I have seen poorly installed vents that condensation built up and froze causing problems.

The FOOLISH HVAC tech showed up after I showed the home owner what the problem was. The HVAC tech said the system was fine, I told him to come around back and I would show him all the water in the vent line with the borescope camera. He got in his truck and left!

So I contacted a good friend of mine and we sorted the problem out by cutting and rehanging the vent line so it would drain properly, about 2-3 quarts of water drained out when we were able to get the pipe hung properly.

Any HVAC guy that is afraid of natural gas or propane should fill out a job app at McDonald's!

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: kev ()
Date: June 04, 2016 01:55PM

Ha! When's that photo from? 1985? Check out that old fire engine (the other cars are clearly newer). Either way, no point in scaring the masses. Gas furnaces are very safe, especially newer ones from the last 10 years. If you have a furnace older than that you should definitly have it cleaned and inspected. You should also do a cost-bennefit analysis to see how long a newer, more efficient, furnace will pay for itself.

Out of curiosity, roughly how much more are hybrids than just gas? 20%, 80%? And how much more efficient are they above that 30 degree threshold.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: GYdPL ()
Date: June 04, 2016 02:32PM

Not buying the picture of the burned neighborhood is due to natural gas.

Natural gas usually causes an explosion and some flames, but not enough to cook the entire block unless you are in Southern CA during a Santa Ana wind event.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Electrification Advocates ()
Date: June 04, 2016 03:27PM

We are getting some political advocacy of electrification thrown in here, in case someone did not notice

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: South riding resident ()
Date: June 04, 2016 04:27PM

I was living in South riding when that house exploded in 98. The wife burned alive while the neighbors listened to her screams. The kids somehow got blown across the street and landed in someone's yard, they had minor fractures, cuts and bruises. The Dad was in the burn center for nearly a year and underwent multiple skin transplant and plastic surgeries.
Everyone was paranoid as hell and washington gas kept two crews on site 24 hours a day for months.
Overall though gas is pretty safe if you look at the stats.

http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Pages/Natural_Gas_Explosion_and_Fire_in_South_Riding_Virginia_July_7_1998.aspx

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: GHe4n ()
Date: June 04, 2016 04:46PM

South riding resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was living in South riding when that house
> exploded in 98. The wife burned alive while the
> neighbors listened to her screams. The kids
> somehow got blown across the street and landed in
> someone's yard, they had minor fractures, cuts and
> bruises. The Dad was in the burn center for nearly
> a year and underwent multiple skin transplant and
> plastic surgeries.
> Everyone was paranoid as hell and washington gas
> kept two crews on site 24 hours a day for months.
> Overall though gas is pretty safe if you look at
> the stats.
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Pages/Natural_Gas
> _Explosion_and_Fire_in_South_Riding_Virginia_July_
> 7_1998.aspx


Sorry to hear that. I remember it well.

That NTSB report is a whitewash. They put the bulk of the blame on the electric utilities, but the real problem was the USDA's Rural Utilities Service and their pushing for a Washington Gas expansion into Loudoun County.

The Fairfax-bordering parts of Loudoun were (figuratively) exploding at the time in South Riding and in Sterling because of the dot-com boom and Fairfax's restrictive zoning. This house (literally) exploded because Washington Gas was too busy gobbling up sweet, sweet taxpayer dollars in the form of USDA incentives to bother with delivering gas safely.

Fuckin' government subsidies. How do they work?

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: hvac man ()
Date: June 04, 2016 04:52PM

South riding resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was living in South riding when that house
> exploded in 98. The wife burned alive while the
> neighbors listened to her screams. The kids
> somehow got blown across the street and landed in
> someone's yard, they had minor fractures, cuts and
> bruises. The Dad was in the burn center for nearly
> a year and underwent multiple skin transplant and
> plastic surgeries.
> Everyone was paranoid as hell and washington gas
> kept two crews on site 24 hours a day for months.
> Overall though gas is pretty safe if you look at
> the stats.
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Pages/Natural_Gas
> _Explosion_and_Fire_in_South_Riding_Virginia_July_
> 7_1998.aspx


I bet that Dad and the two kids moved into a house with a heat pump after that shit.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: dbc7M ()
Date: June 04, 2016 07:42PM

you wish to replace your 22 yr old with a new AC because she's in heat and pumping?

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Raven23 ()
Date: June 05, 2016 01:57AM

IMHO heat pumps really don't cool that well. Anyone know ehy they don't cool well? It just seems like its not as fast warming and cooling as traditional furnace/ac.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: UDuJL ()
Date: June 05, 2016 04:44AM

Raven23 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMHO heat pumps really don't cool that well.
> Anyone know ehy they don't cool well? It just
> seems like its not as fast warming and cooling as
> traditional furnace/ac.


Cooling and heating are a different task with a heat pump.

Heat pumps will NEVER heat fast unless you request more than a 2F rise in temperature and they will typically kick in the Auxiliary heat which in most heat pumps is electrical restrictive heating elements.

As for cooling, a heat pump should cool with about the same rate as a AC unit.

The problem is with the changes in refrigerant, compressor style, energy efficiency, variable speed fans and other factors may make a newer style heat pump seem to not cool as fast as say a 20+ year old system.

Cooling is also a function of de-humidification more so than absolute temperature, so keep this in mind.

The other factor is with a heat pump, the outdoor condensing unit is operational almost year round, so thing like the larger outside coil may need more maintenance. Rinsing off and cleaning the outdoor coil is something that will need to be performed more often than with a conventional AC unit because it typically runs less than 6 months of the year.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: hvac man ()
Date: June 05, 2016 04:59AM

UDuJL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Raven23 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > IMHO heat pumps really don't cool that well.
> > Anyone know ehy they don't cool well? It just
> > seems like its not as fast warming and cooling
> as
> > traditional furnace/ac.
>
>
> Cooling and heating are a different task with a
> heat pump.
>
> Heat pumps will NEVER heat fast unless you request
> more than a 2F rise in temperature and they will
> typically kick in the Auxiliary heat which in most
> heat pumps is electrical restrictive heating
> elements.
>
> As for cooling, a heat pump should cool with about
> the same rate as a AC unit.
>
> The problem is with the changes in refrigerant,
> compressor style, energy efficiency, variable
> speed fans and other factors may make a newer
> style heat pump seem to not cool as fast as say a
> 20+ year old system.
>
> Cooling is also a function of de-humidification
> more so than absolute temperature, so keep this in
> mind.
>
> The other factor is with a heat pump, the outdoor
> condensing unit is operational almost year round,
> so thing like the larger outside coil may need
> more maintenance. Rinsing off and cleaning the
> outdoor coil is something that will need to be
> performed more often than with a conventional AC
> unit because it typically runs less than 6 months
> of the year.


Lol! You clearly have no clue as to how a heap pump works. You are an ignorant fuck.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: KP west resident ()
Date: June 05, 2016 09:18AM

Well, my inquiry on this thread took some strange turns but I would like to thank everyone for their input. We have decided to get the heat pump installed next week. In the meantime we have a window air conditioner for a little relief but it really has not been that hot.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: ypMe9 ()
Date: June 05, 2016 01:22PM

hvac man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UDuJL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Raven23 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > IMHO heat pumps really don't cool that well.
> > > Anyone know ehy they don't cool well? It just
> > > seems like its not as fast warming and
> cooling
> > as
> > > traditional furnace/ac.
> >
> >
> > Cooling and heating are a different task with a
> > heat pump.
> >
> > Heat pumps will NEVER heat fast unless you
> request
> > more than a 2F rise in temperature and they
> will
> > typically kick in the Auxiliary heat which in
> most
> > heat pumps is electrical restrictive heating
> > elements.
> >
> > As for cooling, a heat pump should cool with
> about
> > the same rate as a AC unit.
> >
> > The problem is with the changes in refrigerant,
> > compressor style, energy efficiency, variable
> > speed fans and other factors may make a newer
> > style heat pump seem to not cool as fast as say
> a
> > 20+ year old system.
> >
> > Cooling is also a function of de-humidification
> > more so than absolute temperature, so keep this
> in
> > mind.
> >
> > The other factor is with a heat pump, the
> outdoor
> > condensing unit is operational almost year
> round,
> > so thing like the larger outside coil may need
> > more maintenance. Rinsing off and cleaning the
> > outdoor coil is something that will need to be
> > performed more often than with a conventional
> AC
> > unit because it typically runs less than 6
> months
> > of the year.
>
>
> Lol! You clearly have no clue as to how a heap
> pump works. You are an ignorant fuck.

Mr "HVAC Man" I clearly know quite a bit about HVAC, Heat Pumps, Gas and Oil furnaces.

You clearly are someone that should not be in the business. I assume if you work in the business you must work for ARS!!!

What a waste of a company ARS is, I have had to undo SO many of their screw ups it is not even funny.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: ypMe9 ()
Date: June 05, 2016 01:38PM

BTW HVAC Man, you obviously have no credibility as you just call people names and insult them, you offer no valid feedback, counterpoint or argument.

Blanket statements like natural gas is dangerous and dirty.

So is swimming in a lake or river or cutting your own grass.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: hvac man ()
Date: June 05, 2016 02:08PM

ypMe9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BTW HVAC Man, you obviously have no credibility as
> you just call people names and insult them, you
> offer no valid feedback, counterpoint or argument.
>
>
> Blanket statements like natural gas is dangerous
> and dirty.
>
> So is swimming in a lake or river or cutting your
> own grass.
Attachments:
trolled.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: June 05, 2016 05:08PM

Heat pumps serve the purpose for those who can't afford the comfort of a gas HVAC system.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Jesus! ()
Date: June 11, 2016 03:13PM

South riding resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was living in South riding when that house
> exploded in 98. The wife burned alive while the
> neighbors listened to her screams. The kids
> somehow got blown across the street and landed in
> someone's yard, they had minor fractures, cuts and
> bruises. The Dad was in the burn center for nearly
> a year and underwent multiple skin transplant and
> plastic surgeries.
> Everyone was paranoid as hell and washington gas
> kept two crews on site 24 hours a day for months.
> Overall though gas is pretty safe if you look at
> the stats.
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Pages/Natural_Gas
> _Explosion_and_Fire_in_South_Riding_Virginia_July_
> 7_1998.aspx


Getting burned alive sucks!

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: vvvvvvvvvvv ()
Date: June 13, 2016 02:36PM

Our 3 year old heat pump works great. I think we used backup heat about 2 times this past winter. During the recent heat wave the house stayed at 68F all day. Its a large Trane unit with a great seer rating (though I can't remember what it was).

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: FrankR. ()
Date: June 13, 2016 02:54PM

Don't forget about the insulation... it makes a big difference in the older homes. We had our attic re-insulated (blown in cellulose over the old fiberglass with a radiant barrier on top, and made a big difference IMO. Walls and windows are a whole other story.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Been there, done that. ()
Date: June 14, 2016 07:00PM

Something else to consider is the 12-20 year life of a gas furnace, versus a 8-12 year life for a heat pump. And the heat pump almost always fails when under the most strain, i.e. at either the coldest or hottest part of the year.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Throw Away Society ()
Date: June 14, 2016 07:18PM

Been there, done that. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Something else to consider is the 12-20 year life
> of a gas furnace, versus a 8-12 year life for a
> heat pump. And the heat pump almost always fails
> when under the most strain, i.e. at either the
> coldest or hottest part of the year.


12 to 20 year life span? Try 30 to 40 if maintained.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Be Prepared! ()
Date: June 14, 2016 07:22PM

Jesus! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South riding resident Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I was living in South riding when that house
> > exploded in 98. The wife burned alive while the
> > neighbors listened to her screams. The kids
> > somehow got blown across the street and landed
> in
> > someone's yard, they had minor fractures, cuts
> and
> > bruises. The Dad was in the burn center for
> nearly
> > a year and underwent multiple skin transplant
> and
> > plastic surgeries.
> > Everyone was paranoid as hell and washington
> gas
> > kept two crews on site 24 hours a day for
> months.
> > Overall though gas is pretty safe if you look
> at
> > the stats.
> >
> >
> http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Pages/Natural_Gas
> >
> _Explosion_and_Fire_in_South_Riding_Virginia_July_
>
> > 7_1998.aspx
>
>
> Getting burned alive sucks!

As DAJAX, Dame, Gunlover and other true Americans would say...that's why you always carry a gun.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Fire...one way or another ()
Date: June 15, 2016 01:10PM

Be Prepared! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jesus! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > South riding resident Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I was living in South riding when that house
> > > exploded in 98. The wife burned alive while
> the
> > > neighbors listened to her screams. The kids
> > > somehow got blown across the street and
> landed
> > in
> > > someone's yard, they had minor fractures,
> cuts
> > and
> > > bruises. The Dad was in the burn center for
> > nearly
> > > a year and underwent multiple skin transplant
> > and
> > > plastic surgeries.
> > > Everyone was paranoid as hell and washington
> > gas
> > > kept two crews on site 24 hours a day for
> > months.
> > > Overall though gas is pretty safe if you look
> > at
> > > the stats.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Pages/Natural_Gas
> > >
> >
> _Explosion_and_Fire_in_South_Riding_Virginia_July_
>
> >
> > > 7_1998.aspx
> >
> >
> > Getting burned alive sucks!
>
> As DAJAX, Dame, Gunlover and other true Americans
> would say...that's why you always carry a gun.

+10. Everyone should be required to carry a gun in the event of fire.
There's never a good guy with the fire extinguisher when you need one.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: furnace guy ()
Date: June 15, 2016 04:31PM

Throw Away Society Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Been there, done that. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Something else to consider is the 12-20 year
> life
> > of a gas furnace, versus a 8-12 year life for a
> > heat pump. And the heat pump almost always
> fails
> > when under the most strain, i.e. at either the
> > coldest or hottest part of the year.
>
>
> 12 to 20 year life span? Try 30 to 40 if
> maintained.


The furnaces they have been making since the 90s do not hold up like the old ones. You might get 20 years if you are lucky with these thin ass heat exchangers they use today. They are built for efficiency not longevity.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: bacon on white ()
Date: November 11, 2017 08:58AM

furnace guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Throw Away Society Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Been there, done that. Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Something else to consider is the 12-20 year
> > life
> > > of a gas furnace, versus a 8-12 year life for
> a
> > > heat pump. And the heat pump almost always
> > fails
> > > when under the most strain, i.e. at either
> the
> > > coldest or hottest part of the year.
> >
> >
> > 12 to 20 year life span? Try 30 to 40 if
> > maintained.
>
>
> The furnaces they have been making since the 90s
> do not hold up like the old ones. You might get 20
> years if you are lucky with these thin ass heat
> exchangers they use today. They are built for
> efficiency not longevity.


Yeah, my neighbors furnace got a hole in the very thin heat exchanger of her 11 year old gas furnace. The carbon monoxide detector saved their lives. We both have heat pumps now and have never been happier. Our utility bills are lower than ever and we are more comfortable than ever.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Hoe Moaner ()
Date: November 12, 2017 08:58AM

Gas heat causes skin cancer. stick with heat pump or electric heat.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: yjlvc ()
Date: November 12, 2017 09:55AM

There are people whose attachment to heat pumps borders on religious fanaticism. Ignore them. It comes down to which option is right for you. Which option makes you feel the most comfortable in your home and stays within your budget. You have several options, depending on how your home is equipped. Traditional heat pump, dual fuel heat pump, traditional gas furnace, and high efficiency gas furnace are the most common choices in this area. Elsewhere you've got fuel oil, LPG and wood stoves.

I have a traditional gas furnace in the main wing of the house with a fuel pump in the addition. Fuel pump was used because it was easier to run an electric line than a gas line and much cheaper than trying to tie the new HVAC into the existing duct system. I prefer the gas furnace. The traditional gas furnace was chosen because at the time they put out much hotter air at the vents than high efficiency gas furnaces.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Fire fighter2 ()
Date: November 12, 2017 11:25AM

Natural gas is very warm.
Attachments:
explosion.jpg

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: November 12, 2017 08:53PM

My attachment to my heat pump is based on not having gas in my neighborhood! Been her 28 years, have replaced heat pump twice (once shortly after moving in, once a couple of years ago). We don't hate it, but boy, if gas were available, we'd have switched in a heartbeat.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: mmmmm ()
Date: November 14, 2017 12:52PM

Heat Pumps----------Bbbrrrrrrrrrr....one never gets WARM and TOASTY with a heat pump.....

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: heater cheater ()
Date: November 14, 2017 01:24PM

mmmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Heat Pumps----------Bbbrrrrrrrrrr....one never
> gets WARM and TOASTY with a heat pump.....


Heat pumps used to be like that but not nowadays.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: h4ljc ()
Date: November 15, 2017 10:14PM

heater cheater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mmmmm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Heat Pumps----------Bbbrrrrrrrrrr....one never
> > gets WARM and TOASTY with a heat pump.....
>
>
> Heat pumps used to be like that but not nowadays.

shut the fuck up area HVAC sales man

stop bringing up dead posts from last year

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: eyewl ()
Date: November 15, 2017 10:16PM

look at nationwide complaints against companies who installed them

by looking HARD for complaints you'll know what the "end game" is

(you won't find fairfax complaints: fx co gov BBB is a scam run by illegals and sharon bull-o-va and insures her and friends area businesses NEVER get bad news published)

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Home comfort expert ()
Date: November 16, 2017 02:51AM

A heat pump is the most efficient heating machine on the market. For every dollar of electricity you put into a heat pump, you get back $2 to $4 of heat. That's energy efficiency! Plus, a heat pump also acts as a central air conditioner in summer, giving you year-round comfort.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: centreville resident ()
Date: November 17, 2017 05:25AM

I have always wanted gas heat and like 10 years ago they ran gas lines up to my house and offered to switch us over to gas and finance the whole thing on our gas bill. I never signed up for it but most of my neighbors did. The empty gas meter rack still sits in my side yard. After talking to my neighbors their bills were much higher because of the gas heat. My heat pump has always kept us comfortable so we are sticking with heat pump for now.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: 7tedt ()
Date: November 17, 2017 07:46AM

Home comfort expert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A heat pump is the most efficient heating machine
> on the market. For every dollar of electricity you
> put into a heat pump, you get back $2 to $4 of
> heat. That's energy efficiency! Plus, a heat pump
> also acts as a central air conditioner in summer,
> giving you year-round comfort.


This is the most misleading load of crap posted. Are you the same person who was trying to convince us that heat pumps magically removed heat from outside cold air and transferred it inside the house?

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Grease monkey ()
Date: November 17, 2017 12:01PM

I live in a all electric neighborhood with a heat pump but it has oil backup. When it gets below 35 degrees outside my heat pump cuts off and oil takes over. The oil heat is even hotter than gas and works great. One fill of my oil tank lasts all winter because the heat pump runs most of the time.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: warmberry ()
Date: November 18, 2017 05:58AM

Grease monkey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live in a all electric neighborhood with a heat
> pump but it has oil backup. When it gets below 35
> degrees outside my heat pump cuts off and oil
> takes over. The oil heat is even hotter than gas
> and works great. One fill of my oil tank lasts all
> winter because the heat pump runs most of the
> time.


IDK about that, I rented a house years ago that had a oil fired boiler in it. The whole house smelled like oil especially when the man came out and filled the tank. That sucked.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Fairfax Fred ()
Date: November 18, 2017 09:42AM

7tedt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Home comfort expert Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A heat pump is the most efficient heating
> machine
> > on the market. For every dollar of electricity
> you
> > put into a heat pump, you get back $2 to $4 of
> > heat. That's energy efficiency! Plus, a heat
> pump
> > also acts as a central air conditioner in
> summer,
> > giving you year-round comfort.
>
>
> This is the most misleading load of crap posted.
> Are you the same person who was trying to convince
> us that heat pumps magically removed heat from
> outside cold air and transferred it inside the
> house?


I am not a huge fan of heat pumps but I have had them in the past. There is no magic to a heat pump but it does in fact extract heat from the outdoor air and move it inside the house, put simply it is a air conditioner in reverse. We as human beings are very sensitive to small changes in temperature and there is plenty of heat in the outside air when we perceive it to be cold outside. There is no measurable heat at negative 460 degrees fahrenheit but at say 20 degrees fahrenheit there is a shit ton of heat available. Here is a quote from the Trane website,

"Think of a heat pump as a heat transporter constantly moving warm air from one place to another, to where its needed or not needed, depending on the season. Even in air that's seems too cold, heat energy is present. When it's cold outside a heat pump extracts this outside heat and transfers it inside. When it’s warm outside, it reverses directions and acts like an air conditioner, removing heat from your home.
One advantage of a heat pump is that it moves heat instead of generating heat, giving you more energy efficiency. Also, it is powered by electricity, so you can save substantially on fuel consumption. For example, a Trane XL20i heat pump is among the HVAC industry’s most efficient, with a rating up to 19.00 SEER and 9.00 HSPF .
Note that heat pumps are best for moderate climates, and a supplemental heating source may be needed for lower temperatures. As a year-round solution for home comfort, Trane heat pumps can become a key part of your matched system. An independent Trane dealer can help you decide if a heat pump system is right for you."

https://www.trane.com/residential/en/resources/glossary/what-is-a-heat-pump.html

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: November 18, 2017 08:43PM

warmberry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IDK about that, I rented a house years ago that
> had a oil fired boiler in it. The whole house
> smelled like oil especially when the man came out
> and filled the tank. That sucked.

Hm. I grew up with oil-fired heat, never smelled it. But the tank was outside (buried); was yours inside?

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Physics Phred ()
Date: November 18, 2017 11:50PM

Fairfax Fred. You are correct about the air conditioner being a heat pump in reverse, but saying it is transferring heat from outside is misleading. If a heat pump was simply extracting heat from the outside air, it could work at temperatures well below freezing because there is still heat present in that sub-freezing air.

Heat pumps aren't simply transferring heat from the outside to the inside during winter and vice versa during the summer. They are generating heat and cooling through the compression and expansion of the refrigerant. In theory if you had the perfect machine, a big enough heat pump and the ideal refrigerant it would be possible to generate heat in winter and cooling in summer with only minimal involvement of outside hot or cold air.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: WYB36 ()
Date: November 19, 2017 12:16AM

Phred, the heat has to come from somewhere. To heat, you compress a gas, its temperature increases. The cool room air gets heated. Ideally the room air and the gas reach the same temperature. You then move that gas outdoor and expand it. It cools and then you wait for that gas to warm back up to outdoor temperatures, so you can compress it to remove that heat. It easy to see this with PV=nRT but systems typically involve a phase change and that isn't described as an ideal gas.

So the heat pump is always transferring heat. It isn't efficient at lower temperatures because there is simply less available heat in cool air and to move enough heat you need bigger and bigger systems. And a working gas that phase changes at the outdoor temperatures and working pressures.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Fairfax Fred ()
Date: November 19, 2017 07:32AM

WYB36 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phred, the heat has to come from somewhere. To
> heat, you compress a gas, its temperature
> increases. The cool room air gets heated.
> Ideally the room air and the gas reach the same
> temperature. You then move that gas outdoor and
> expand it. It cools and then you wait for that
> gas to warm back up to outdoor temperatures, so
> you can compress it to remove that heat. It easy
> to see this with PV=nRT but systems typically
> involve a phase change and that isn't described as
> an ideal gas.
>
> So the heat pump is always transferring heat. It
> isn't efficient at lower temperatures because
> there is simply less available heat in cool air
> and to move enough heat you need bigger and bigger
> systems. And a working gas that phase changes at
> the outdoor temperatures and working pressures.


Yes, that is called the heat of compression. The heat extracted from the outdoor air plus the heat of compression are released from the hot freon into the indoor air. It will have less heat to harvest at lower temperatures. Remember the first law of thermodynamics, energy can be transformed but cannot be created or destroyed.
Try measuring the inlet and outlet air temperature on a running heat pump outside, the air coming out the top is much colder than the air being pulled in the sides. That heat that has been removed from the outside air is going to be released indoors.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Physics Phred ()
Date: November 19, 2017 09:12AM

One last time.

Turn on a heat pump. The heat pump compresses refrigerant making it hot. The compressed refrigerant then passes through a heat exchanger which removes much of the heat by blowing air from inside the house across it. The heat pump has so far produced heat for the house innocent of any involvement from air or heat outside. If there was an ideal heat pump it could continue this process all winter, storing the compressed refrigerant in a perfectly insulated location until summer when the refrigerant would then be allowed to expand and pass through the heat exchanger producing cool air.

The ideal heat pump with that refrigerant capacity does not exist. It is therefore necessary for the heat pump to exhaust unwanted coolness in the winter or heat in the summer. It does this through a second heat exchanger which is usually located outdoors. The compressed refrigerant is allowed to expand in the winter. So long as the temperature of the coolant is below the outdoors temperature it "exhausts cold" by equalizing temperature with the outside air. this does involve some transfer of heat from the outside air to the refrigerant. However if the refrigerant then went to the indoor heat exchanger without again passing through the compressor it would be pumping out cold, not warm air.

The compressor and not the outdoor heat exchanger is the key to producing the heat. The compressor isn't just a heat transfer mechanism. It is the heat generating component. Without heat being generated by the compressor you might as well open the windows.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Fairfax Fred ()
Date: November 19, 2017 09:41AM

Physics Phred Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One last time.
>
> Turn on a heat pump. The heat pump compresses
> refrigerant making it hot. The compressed
> refrigerant then passes through a heat exchanger
> which removes much of the heat by blowing air from
> inside the house across it. The heat pump has so
> far produced heat for the house innocent of any
> involvement from air or heat outside. If there
> was an ideal heat pump it could continue this
> process all winter, storing the compressed
> refrigerant in a perfectly insulated location
> until summer when the refrigerant would then be
> allowed to expand and pass through the heat
> exchanger producing cool air.
>
> The ideal heat pump with that refrigerant capacity
> does not exist. It is therefore necessary for the
> heat pump to exhaust unwanted coolness in the
> winter or heat in the summer. It does this
> through a second heat exchanger which is usually
> located outdoors. The compressed refrigerant is
> allowed to expand in the winter. So long as the
> temperature of the coolant is below the outdoors
> temperature it "exhausts cold" by equalizing
> temperature with the outside air. this does
> involve some transfer of heat from the outside air
> to the refrigerant. However if the refrigerant
> then went to the indoor heat exchanger without
> again passing through the compressor it would be
> pumping out cold, not warm air.
>
> The compressor and not the outdoor heat exchanger
> is the key to producing the heat. The compressor
> isn't just a heat transfer mechanism. It is the
> heat generating component. Without heat being
> generated by the compressor you might as well open
> the windows.

Thanks for explaining that so well.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: DLPHC ()
Date: November 19, 2017 11:22AM

NOOOOOOO! Heat pumps are awful unless you like luke warm air instead of real heat.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: jim law ()
Date: November 20, 2017 02:27AM

Home comfort expert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A heat pump is the most efficient heating machine
> on the market. For every dollar of electricity you
> put into a heat pump, you get back $2 to $4 of
> heat. That's energy efficiency! Plus, a heat pump
> also acts as a central air conditioner in summer,
> giving you year-round comfort.


Heat pumps are fine most of the time the climate here is perfect for them. When it does get super cold I fire up my wood stove and get super comfortable.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Energy freak 2.0 ()
Date: November 20, 2017 08:44AM

Physics Phred Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One last time.
>
> Turn on a heat pump. The heat pump compresses
> refrigerant making it hot. The compressed
> refrigerant then passes through a heat exchanger
> which removes much of the heat by blowing air from
> inside the house across it. The heat pump has so
> far produced heat for the house innocent of any
> involvement from air or heat outside. If there
> was an ideal heat pump it could continue this
> process all winter, storing the compressed
> refrigerant in a perfectly insulated location
> until summer when the refrigerant would then be
> allowed to expand and pass through the heat
> exchanger producing cool air.
>
> The ideal heat pump with that refrigerant capacity
> does not exist. It is therefore necessary for the
> heat pump to exhaust unwanted coolness in the
> winter or heat in the summer. It does this
> through a second heat exchanger which is usually
> located outdoors. The compressed refrigerant is
> allowed to expand in the winter. So long as the
> temperature of the coolant is below the outdoors
> temperature it "exhausts cold" by equalizing
> temperature with the outside air. this does
> involve some transfer of heat from the outside air
> to the refrigerant. However if the refrigerant
> then went to the indoor heat exchanger without
> again passing through the compressor it would be
> pumping out cold, not warm air.
>
> The compressor and not the outdoor heat exchanger
> is the key to producing the heat. The compressor
> isn't just a heat transfer mechanism. It is the
> heat generating component. Without heat being
> generated by the compressor you might as well open
> the windows.

LOL @ the pure ignorance.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: WYB36 ()
Date: November 21, 2017 06:55AM

Physics Phred Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One last time.
>
> Turn on a heat pump. The heat pump compresses
> refrigerant making it hot. The compressed
> refrigerant then passes through a heat exchanger
> which removes much of the heat by blowing air from
> inside the house across it. The heat pump has so
> far produced heat for the house innocent of any
> involvement from air or heat outside.

No. There is already energy (heat) in the gas. When you compress the gas, the pressure goes up. To balance PV=nRT, the temperature of the gas must go up. The compressor doesn't make the gas hot (yes, because of friction there is some heating due to the compressors moving parts). The gas already has a certain amount of energy. If you change the pressure or volume of the gas, the temperature changes.

You have a fixed volume set by the indoor coil and expansion valve.

> If there
> was an ideal heat pump it could continue this
> process all winter, storing the compressed
> refrigerant in a perfectly insulated location
> until summer when the refrigerant would then be
> allowed to expand and pass through the heat
> exchanger producing cool air.
>
> The ideal heat pump with that refrigerant capacity
> does not exist. It is therefore necessary for the
> heat pump to exhaust unwanted coolness in the
> winter or heat in the summer. It does this
> through a second heat exchanger which is usually
> located outdoors. The compressed refrigerant is
> allowed to expand in the winter. So long as the
> temperature of the coolant is below the outdoors
> temperature it "exhausts cold" by equalizing
> temperature with the outside air. this does
> involve some transfer of heat from the outside air
> to the refrigerant. However if the refrigerant
> then went to the indoor heat exchanger without
> again passing through the compressor it would be
> pumping out cold, not warm air.
>
> The compressor and not the outdoor heat exchanger
> is the key to producing the heat. The compressor
> isn't just a heat transfer mechanism. It is the
> heat generating component. Without heat being
> generated by the compressor you might as well open
> the windows.

The ideal heat pump is really that, a heat pump but using the term energy is less confusing. The outdoor heat exchanger doesn't exhaust coolness. It reheats the working fluid to the outdoor ambient temperature. After heating your home that gas is expanded and its temperature drops. Since the gas temperature is now less than the outside air, hopefully!, it picks up heat from the outdoor air. So the gas recovers energy from the outside air.

Check the math. See how many kW the compressor is and see if that is enough to heat your house. It isn't. The bulk of the heating must come from somewhere else.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: WYB36 ()
Date: November 21, 2017 06:59AM

DLPHC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NOOOOOOO! Heat pumps are awful unless you like
> luke warm air instead of real heat.

The higher SEER units do make warmer (and cooler) air. Insulate your ducts as well. Anything built around here before the energy crisis was built with the assumption that you can just keep cranking up the dial.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: WYB36 ()
Date: November 21, 2017 07:20AM

And yes, a heat pump really uses the heat of vaporization. As I mentioned heat earlier pumps usually use phase changes to do their job because phase changes are typically energy intensive. Going from a gas to liquid releases energy in the form of heat to the surrounding environment. Going from liquid to gas removes energy from the surrounding environment. The bit inside the surrounding environment is called the control volume in thermodynamics.

Because of some of the less than ideal behaviors in the system, you have things like superheat and subcooling, where the temperature of the working fluid goes beyond what is required to just change the phase. That's things like frictional heating and ideal gas law.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Alex Andria ()
Date: November 21, 2017 09:32AM

My pool is heated by a heat pump and it works great!

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: poolie ()
Date: August 24, 2018 02:08PM

Alex Andria Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My pool is heated by a heat pump and it works
> great!

Ours too, we use the pool until the leaves start to fall in October.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Gas is cheap ()
Date: August 24, 2018 05:40PM

Gas Is Great Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Stick with
> your gas furnace, at 6 years old its still fairly
> fresh as they last a good 12-20 years.

My Trane gas furnace is 31 years old. Nothing stops a train!

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: factoid1 ()
Date: August 25, 2018 03:46PM

The climate in this area is absolutely perfect for heat pumps.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Experience the difference ()
Date: August 25, 2018 05:16PM

Gas is cheap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gas Is Great Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Stick with
> > your gas furnace, at 6 years old its still
> fairly
> > fresh as they last a good 12-20 years.
>
> My Trane gas furnace is 31 years old. Nothing
> stops a train!


We replaced our 25 year old gas furnace with a new gas one last year. I should say we had to replace our A/C unit and decided to have them replace the furnace while they were at it. Who knows how much longer the furnace would have chugged along if the A/C hadn't crapped out. Even with the insulation we have added our nineteen sixties house isn't as tight as newer homes, but the gas furnaces have kept us warm.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: JamieCrouse ()
Date: October 06, 2018 09:00AM

When you are looking to get a replacement HVAC, you will need to look at all of your different options. This is why you need to consider the professionals as well as the unit. Finding the right HVAC system is a big deal. It is so vital to work with a trusted company like heating system replacement service NJ that has the ability to meet your needs in both the replacement options available to you, as well as the cost you need. It is a good idea to invest in quality because ultimately, that will make the most difference to your budget. If a new system is warranted, invest wisely so you do not have to think about another replacement for many years.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Centreville Phil ()
Date: October 08, 2018 02:12PM

factoid1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The climate in this area is absolutely perfect for
> heat pumps.


Yes but there are about 10 nights a winter when I wish I had gas heat.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Mystery play ()
Date: October 09, 2018 01:25AM

Zero reason to by a heat pump when you already have a gas furnace!!!! The HVAC salesperson will be happy but that's it. The need for heat pumps when you already have the best heating source is like buying a different car for summer vs winter driving and you already own a Toyota Land Cruiser. You really can't beat what you already have. Just install an AC condensor & have them replace the evaporator coil. Last, get competitive bids. Most of the hardware is manufactured by just a few of the same companies anyway. Stay away from poorly rated installers.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: student of thermodynamics ()
Date: October 09, 2018 09:05PM

Mystery play Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zero reason to by a heat pump when you already
> have a gas furnace!!!! The HVAC salesperson will
> be happy but that's it. The need for heat pumps
> when you already have the best heating source is
> like buying a different car for summer vs winter
> driving and you already own a Toyota Land Cruiser.
> You really can't beat what you already have. Just
> install an AC condensor & have them replace the
> evaporator coil. Last, get competitive bids. Most
> of the hardware is manufactured by just a few of
> the same companies anyway. Stay away from poorly
> rated installers.


That's really stupid.

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Hal O Flame ()
Date: October 12, 2019 10:12AM

My neighbor got a mitsubishi heat pump installed in his house at this time last year. It is so effective that it doesn't even have any backup heaters. We compared utility bills from last winter and he paid out one third of what I paid using my 26 year old gas furnace. His cooling bills were much lower too. I am thinking about getting one. Anybody else try a Mitsubishi?

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pumps Are For Chumps ()
Date: October 12, 2019 12:04PM

Highway robbery prices to install and repair you have been warned

Get the gas or be an ass with a furnace if its available A stand alone AC with out all the high seer BS will last and you wont be an ass with sky high repair bills

Seriously Heat pumps are only good if there's no natural gas available or out in the country . Oil Heat cant be beat but its expensive but you can get a separate normal AC instead of something queer and drafty

Don't be mislead by the eco freaks here that are well off double income liberal Democrat feds, they are paid about 5 times what the average American family makes whom works hard for their living instead of being a high paid office supplies ordering clerk for 30 people with a extravagant title

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: Heat Pumps Are For Chumps ()
Date: October 12, 2019 02:21PM

I SWEAR GOOGLE KNOWS BEFORE YOU BUY SOMETHING AND AFTER

SHOWING YOU ONLY BENEFITS BEFORE YOU BUY, AND ALL THE WARNINGS YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN ONLY AFTER THE CHARGE SHOWS UP ON THE CREDIT CARD

happened to me tens of times and i'm always very careful to search for product complaints before i buy ANYTHING

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: custodian, ()
Date: October 12, 2019 04:32PM

Hal O Flame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My neighbor got a mitsubishi heat pump installed
> in his house at this time last year. It is so
> effective that it doesn't even have any backup
> heaters. We compared utility bills from last
> winter and he paid out one third of what I paid
> using my 26 year old gas furnace. His cooling
> bills were much lower too. I am thinking about
> getting one. Anybody else try a Mitsubishi?

The older FCPS buildings are all getting that Mitsubishi heat pump shit. Why dont they buy American products with our tax dollars???????

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Re: My 22 year old A/C unit is getting replaced. Should I get a heat pump?
Posted by: taxed hard2 ()
Date: October 13, 2019 06:16AM

custodian, Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hal O Flame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My neighbor got a mitsubishi heat pump
> installed
> > in his house at this time last year. It is so
> > effective that it doesn't even have any backup
> > heaters. We compared utility bills from last
> > winter and he paid out one third of what I paid
> > using my 26 year old gas furnace. His cooling
> > bills were much lower too. I am thinking about
> > getting one. Anybody else try a Mitsubishi?
>
> The older FCPS buildings are all getting that
> Mitsubishi heat pump shit. Why dont they buy
> American products with our tax dollars???????


Sad to say it but the Japs build everything better than we do. The smart money is on buying Jap equipment.

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