This dude was carrying a gun out in the open and he still managed to get robbed on the street. Fucked up. Did we ever discuss this one?

"About 4:10 a.m. Sunday, July 30, officers were called to the area of Newton Patent Drive and Newton Tavern Drive. A 21-year-old Centreville-area man was robbed while walking on Newton Patent Drive. Two suspects approached the victim from behind, and placed a metal object up to the victim’s head. The suspects took the victim’s hand gun which he was openly carrying. The suspect’s then fled the area. The victim was not injured.

The suspects were described as black males wearing dark clothing."

That's the first I've heard about this one... Wow--bizarre.

Many things wrong with that scenario. "About 4:10 AM... victim robbed while openly carrying a handgun." Unless he knew the robbers and was fleeing from them, why would he be walking through a neighborhood at 4 AM openly carrying a gun? It almost sounds like a would-be criminal became the victim here. And he must not've looked all that threatening, for these guys to decide "Hey! That guy's got a gun! Let's go rob him!"

My girlfriend points out that the guys seem to have targeted this guy... why would someone in their right mind rob someone carrying a gun, unless they had planned the robbery in advance and were totally able to control the situation?

I have to wonder what kind of stealth technique these guys used to sneak up on this guy at 4Am, when virtually no other noise is occurring. He musta had an ipod on or something. I'm guessing he walked this route regularly and someone saw him with the gun and decided it was time to plan a heist.

I definitely agree that he was targeted. The odds of someone walking through there openly carrying a gun--and being relieved of it at 4 AM by sheer bad luck--are probably pretty low.

He's also only 21, so it's highly unlikely that he was packin' that heat legally--or had a great deal of self confidence. He may have left a party (4AM) under bad circumstances (pissed some people off), and left fearing for his safety.

He could've also been wearing a bright pink shirt with the phrase "I'm a colossal pussy--rob me and take my gun!" you know.

If we're just wildly speculating here, trekroner (we both are so let's do this right!).........

I would disagee if the guy did not appear to be so stupid... I have to wonder why a normal person would call the cops after being robbed of an illegal gun...

The only part of that snippet I did not find surprising was the location... Newton Patent has been steadily bearing more resemblace to a toilet every day.

How old do you have to be to get a concealed weapon permit

Sad, but true about that area.

Everybody loves a good "stupid criminal" story, though; and we can only hope that's the case here. "Officer, I was just mindin' my own business, walking down Newton Patent Drive at 4 in the morning, whistling the theme song from the Andy Griffith Show. When outta nowhere, these two brothers just jacked my gun, took my stash, and robbed me of all that money I stole from--D'OH! Did I just say all that out loud?"

Always carry a handgun for protection! LOL

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How old do you have to be to get a concealed
> weapon permit

I would guess that 21 is the minimum, so the guy is probably technically old enough--but I'm sure the likelihood of obtaining one is slim. I believe you have to prove that your job requires you to be in a dangerous area, first and foremost. And again, only speculating here, but this doesn't sound like a case where this guy was on the job (unless he's a very lame private investigator, or something.)

"State law forces police chiefs and state sheriffs to give concealed carry permits (CCW) to anyone who can buy a handgun, allowing them to carry loaded, concealed handguns in public (known as �shall issue�). Police may not even require safety training in the legal or safe use of weapons for CCW applicants. State law allows residents of some other states to carry concealed weapons in this state without informing local police."

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=va#ccw

Actually no permit is required to openly carry a handgun in the state of virginia.

No permit required to openly carry a handgun? That can't be true.

I remember a few years ago, a friend in Maryland tried to obtain a permit there; he did a lot of traveling through the worst parts of PG County. Still, he said that the state police basically tried to discourage people from even applying to obtain CCW permits by instituting pricey, non-refundable application fees and stringent guidelines. In other words, there was a slim chance that your application would be approved--and you'd be out a few hundred bucks just for trying.

I'm sure the policies are different in other states (and have probably since changed in MD, as well), but surely there is some degree of similarity...

I checked the CCW permits standards, fat chance. After you complete the pricey course you then also are require to hit a target using your bad shooting hand, etc... It's a joke

Here's the actual Virginia law http://www.vsp.state.va.us/cjis_cwp.htm

The truth is you do not need a permit to openly carry a handgun. However, you do need a permit if you wish to conceal a handgun. Fairfax County attempted to outlaw open carry a few years ago but the state overturned the county law.

fd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The truth is you do not need a permit to openly
> carry a handgun. However, you do need a permit if
> you wish to conceal a handgun. Fairfax County
> attempted to outlaw open carry a few years ago but
> the state overturned the county law.

Please clarify your understanding of this, because by "openly carry a handgun," most would interpret that to mean that it's completely legal to walk in public with a sidearm either holstered or in hand. Unless you have cop credentials, I don't see how that can possibly be legal.

Transporting firearms to shooting ranges is one thing--and even in those cases, I'm fairly certain the law requires the weapon to be stored in a container separate from its ammunition. But allowing Joe Random to just walk around with a gun on his hip is not the norm.

Yes, it's completely legal--in Virginia, anyway.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50416-2004Jul14.html

Laws vary in other states.

By the way, the state overturning the county law is a fine example of Dillon's Rule in effect.

Not only is it possibly legal, it is definitely legal. There are, of course, limitations, but those apply to carrying either concealed or openly (such as public schools and government buildings).

Wow. I certainly did not know that.

"Although legal, it is disconcerting to some people."
To say the least.

At what point will we see the story about someone being "wrongfully arrested" and subsequently suing the county?

Jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I checked the CCW permits standards, fat chance.
> After you complete the pricey course you then also
> are require to hit a target using your bad
> shooting hand, etc... It's a joke

Stop spreading bullshit. As usual you post your fucking lies Jester. First of all, VA doesn't have a "CCW" permit because it doesn't extend to knives. VA has a "CHP" (concealed handgun permit). One can be had with a home firearm safety course ($40) and there is no shooting test involved. Of course they wait 30-45 days while the cops run a thorough background check on you.

And yes trekoner, people are wrongly arrested. If he was 21 he can openly carry a handgun without a permit of any kind in Virginia. Typically that means holstered... carrying around in your hand would be brandishing and that's different.

Ignorance of this isn't limited to non-cops... many FFX officers and 911 operators required retraining after an incident a couple of years ago where some lady in a Starbucks called the cops because another customer "had a gun." The 911 operator didn't ask questions like "is the customer holding the gun or pointing it at someone?" to figure out was what going on, just sent the gestapo. Of course the guy was legally open-carrying. Other similar incidents followed such as customers quietly calling cops in restaurants when seeing other patrons (minding their own business) open-carrying but the authorities seemed to have backed off.

FYI by VA law if you have a concealed-carry permit you must open-carry in restaurants serving alcohol for on-premesis consumption... you cannot conceal-carry there. Many restaurant owners and gun owners question the wisdom of this but the change fails to pass year after year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2006 01:24PM by pgens.

So your saying "If your walking down the street with a handgun in your hand you don't have to worry about anything?"

What are you smoking? Put down the crack pipe!

Ok, go ahead, I'll bet the first person to spot you grabs a cell phone and the cops are there in a second giving you a ticketing.

Jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So your saying "If your walking down the street
> with a handgun in your hand you don't have to
> worry about anything?"
>
> What are you smoking? Put down the crack pipe!

Can you even read ?! I just said that was brandishing, not carrying. We're talking about open-carrying. Open-carrying means you are carrying a firearm holstered in open sight, as opposed to concealed carry where the firearm is hidden from plain site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2006 01:33PM by pgens.

Very interesting stuff... I still wouldn't feel comfortable walking around in public with an open sidearm--only for fear that someone would call the police, and cops who aren't familiar with this law would respond and taser me into a vegetative state.

Right. Personally the main reason I got one is so I can transport a firearm in my glove compartment legally. You can have a firearm in the car as long as it is in plain view, but "storing" it in your glove box isn't legal without a permit. If it is hidden you get into locked container requirements.

Very good to know. Even with it being completely legal, I'd also be afraid that an officer would go circus freak crazy if he saw a handgun sitting in plain view during a routine traffic stop. With that in mind, having the permit to legally carry it in the glove box has to be the best option.

My apologies Pgens. Most of what you say is correct however, when I read the rules, given to me by a handgun supplier in the area, they included passing a strict test that even included shooting with my "weak shooting hand" and hitting a target 5 times.

Where he got that from I don't know, but that's what the 'liter'ature said!

Read here - from Blue Ridge arsenal - http://www.blueridgearsenal.com/training.htm#concealed

trekroner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How old do you have to be to get a concealed
> > weapon permit
>
> I would guess that 21 is the minimum, so the guy
> is probably technically old enough--but I'm sure
> the likelihood of obtaining one is slim. I believe
> you have to prove that your job requires you to be
> in a dangerous area, first and foremost. And
> again, only speculating here, but this doesn't
> sound like a case where this guy was on the job
> (unless he's a very lame private investigator, or
> something.)


Don't speculate, there are no laws nor should there be preventing your average law abiding citizen from obtaining a permit to conceal a firearm.

NRA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Don't speculate, there are no laws nor should
> there be preventing your average law abiding
> citizen from obtaining a permit to conceal a
> firearm.


Lighten up, Francis.

They only gave you a million links and you didn't believe them trekroner... I can see why a few got impatient, you would get an answer and then be like "that couldn't be true!"...

which is a fairly round-eyed reponse.

Actually, there was one wordy, technical link on Virgina code posted before brianl703 posted the story from the Washington Post--after which, I didn't question the legality of it again. Just because Dirty Harry decides to quote one of my earliest posts on the subject doesn't mean I'm still denying that it's true.

The million links you speak of rolled in after the fact.

THe VA law link said that having it in your UNLOCKED glovebox is illegal w/o a CHP. Now as you said above pgens, you could have it on the seat next to you, but then when you get pulled over it wont be pretty. So suppose you put it in your LOCKED glovebox, w/o a CHP? what happens?

Did you bother to click on the link I provided, trekroner? It explained the answer to literally everything you asked, in simple language that even you can understand.

I mean, seriously, trek, you asked a question, and when you got an answer, you assumed the person was wrong despite the fact you clearly have no idea what the gun laws are here.. you just don't want to accept that you don't know as much as some people about this subject, or what?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2006 06:24PM by RESton Peace.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you bother to click on the link I provided,
> trekroner? It explained the answer to literally
> everything you asked, in simple language that even
> you can understand.


Yes, I did bother to click on the Brady Campaign link, RESton Peace. And no, the cacaphony of fonts and jacked HTML coding--part of which you even included in your summary--hardly made for pleasant reading. Appreciate the thought, though.

It was a bother, indeed; unlike the aforementioned Post article on the topic which did actually explain an obscure law that most of us were unaware of--including many of those who supposedly enforce the law for a living.

Don't hurt yourself when you get off that high horse of yours tonight, assuming you do get off of it. Oh, that's right--we're not supposed to assume and/or speculate here, are we? *rolls eyes*

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you bother to click on the link I provided,
> trekroner? It explained the answer to literally
> everything you asked, in simple language that even
> you can understand.
>
> I mean, seriously, trek, you asked a question, and
> when you got an answer, you assumed the person was
> wrong despite the fact you clearly have no idea
> what the gun laws are here.. you just don't want
> to accept that you don't know as much as some
> people about this subject, or what?


What part of " Wow. I certainly did not know that" in my post could possibly suggest that "I don't want to accept that I don't know as much as some people about this subject?"

Whatever you say, "round eyes", whatever you say.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever you say, "round eyes", whatever you say.

As a citizen of non-Asian descent, I should be offended by that remark. But I'll let it slide. This time.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever you say, "round eyes", whatever you say.

im going to fucking kill you for that as im offended as hell. call my "whitey" dammit!


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Honky, Whiteboy, and Crackalacka are also acceptable, until further notice. But "Round eyes"? Ninja, please.

"round eyes" is perfect for you, you are forever round eyes from here on out.

Jester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My apologies Pgens. Most of what you say is
> correct however, when I read the rules, given to
> me by a handgun supplier in the area, they
> included passing a strict test that even included
> shooting with my "weak shooting hand" and hitting
> a target 5 times.

Okay, I see where the confusion is now. The course is for "qualifying" in pistol to meet a certain proficiency level, which is different from making you eligible for a CHP. The class can also count as the course you need before you can get a CHP. In my case I took a $35 home firearm safety course. But this more expensive course, which will actually help you learn how to shoot better, counts as well.

I took mine through these guys http://www.piedmontnrainstructors.org/index.html . You can email them and ask them if they still offer basic firearm safety courses, which count for the permit. If your contact told you a test was required for the CHP in Virginia, they were wrong. You need an NRA-sponsored safety or training course, then fill out a lengthy application, take all that and $45 to the county courthouse, and wait (no longer than) 45 days before a background check is conducted and a judge signs the permit and you get it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2006 08:24PM by pgens.

I expected a little more from you. Tsk tsk tsk...
I really thought you were more creative than this, RESton Peace.

Of course, I'm sure you thought you were, too. But as you've hopefully learned, we can all be wrong sometimes.

KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THe VA law link said that having it in your
> UNLOCKED glovebox is illegal w/o a CHP. Now as you
> said above pgens, you could have it on the seat
> next to you, but then when you get pulled over it
> wont be pretty. So suppose you put it in your
> LOCKED glovebox, w/o a CHP? what happens?

If the officer discovers it you could be charged with an illegally concealed weapon. The trick with "locked" and "unlocked" is that the laws usually state that they must be locked somewhere that is not in the passenger compartment or somewhere where a driver could not get to it without great effort, such as leaving the vehicle. In Virginia a glove box, locked or unlocked, requires a permit. Usually they want firearms transported in a locked container in a trunk, which is hard for SUV owners because in most cases there is no trunk. I don't know what the exact requirements are in that case, but my guess is you would be safest with an unloaded firearm in a locked container and ammunition stored separate from it, preferably in a locked container, both as far out of reach in the back bay of the SUV as possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2006 08:21PM by pgens.

I open carry all the time and have only had the cops called once.After a few lawsuits a couple years ago the Cops learned that open carry is legal in Va. Treckroner you should check your facts before making such stupid comments about what is legal.You obviously don't have a clue so should do us all a favor and shut the fuck up !

And Sammy, you can take your openly carried firearm, your crude attitude, and your poor typing skills and pound them all up your ass. It might be more difficult than it sounds, however, as you're obviously full of shit.

Next.

Someone who is openly carrying obviously likely isn't up to anything bad since they haven't hidden the gun.

Damn, Sammy, relax, trekroner-round eyes and I already went at it, but I suppose you would have to be able to pay attention for more than ten seconds to see that...I like to think I was a bit more reserved, but once again one would expect you to have normal "adult powers" in order to be reserved, which you clearly do not..

And I agree Brian... I mean, only in places like Baltimore and Detroit do people of the underworld openly carry weapons..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2006 01:27AM by RESton Peace.

brianl703 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone who is openly carrying obviously likely
> isn't up to anything bad since they haven't hidden
> the gun.

This is probably true. But it also begs the question of what happened with the victim in the original topic of this thread--he was openly carrying, and was robbed of the very weapon that was supposed to protect him...

Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I have some obvious reservations about this open carry policy, especially if some practicing it can't even hold onto their weapons.

Foremost, I'm mainly curious to know what the personal reasons would be for wanting to carry a gun openly in public. I'm not necessarily trying to criticize anyone's choice--I'm simply trying to understand why, in Fairfax County in particular, a civilian would feel the need to walk around strapped. Is it fear? Some sense of civic duty?

Secondly, what do you think and/or expect the reaction(s) whould be from others whom you'd encounter while wearing said gun? Are they supposed to feel more secure in your presence, or threatened? Do you think they're wrong for being wary of someone not in uniform carrying a weapon--someone whom they have no way of knowing can be trusted?

My point is, despite its legality, a civilian openly wearing a firearm in a public place is simply unsettling to many. At a gun show, fine. People expect to see holstered weapons in that situation. In the neighborhood park or coffee shop, however, it's going to raise a few eyebrows in a negative way, like it or not. Yes, we can reason that anyone carrying a gun out in the open isn't likely to use it for the wrong reasons; but what happens when someone finally does?

I might be old fashioned, but unless I consistently find myself traveling through high-risk neighborhoods, and/or carrying valuables that could make me an obvious target for robbery, I just don't see the need to bring a gun out of the house and onto the street. For one thing, I can take care of myself. For another, I can't see alarming or concerning people in the neighborhood unnecessarily by bringing a weapon into everyday situations. The cops already do a bang-up job of that.

I have to admit, I love guns, but I wouldn't carry one around out in the open.

I think, round eyes, you are missing on vital possible reason for doing so: the "potential hero" card... I bet lots of these open carriers do so because they want to be ready for that big moment when they get to show the world how they can take down crime...

hey trek you are an idiot. alot of people in VA carry openly because they can't carry concealed.

for the longest while the county was actually denying people CCL just because the clerks at the court didn't like the fact that people could carry weapons unknowingly. fortunately, a judge made this a crime and if they don't process your application within a timely period, 30 days I think it is, the county will automatically issue you a temporary 90 day permit. it was a judge's order about a year or two back.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to admit, I love guns, but I wouldn't carry
> one around out in the open.
>
> I think, round eyes, you are missing on vital
> possible reason for doing so: the "potential
> hero" card... I bet lots of these open carriers do
> so because they want to be ready for that big
> moment when they get to show the world how they
> can take down crime...


I agree with you, that there's some some degree of hero aspiration going on here with folks who openly carry weapons. I'm waiting to hear their reasons for doing so, guessing that most won't admit to either being fearful or wanting to be a hero.

Turbo Mirage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hey trek you are an idiot. alot of people in VA
> carry openly because they can't carry concealed.
>
> for the longest while the county was actually
> denying people CCL just because the clerks at the
> court didn't like the fact that people could carry
> weapons unknowingly. fortunately, a judge made
> this a crime and if they don't process your
> application within a timely period, 30 days I
> think it is, the county will automatically issue
> you a temporary 90 day permit. it was a judge's
> order about a year or two back.

So, Turbo Mirage, you're supposed to be one of the legions of Virginians who openly carry, huh? Do you carry a real gun, or is that a mirage, too?

Before you start throwing derogatory names around, you might want to actually man up and answer the simple questions I posed to you wannabe lawdogs. I'd gladly approach one of these civilian soldiers and ask them about it in person--considering there are supposed to be so many of them out there, and all--but I've lived in NoVA for nearly a decade now, and haven't seen a single person with a sidearm who didn't also wear a badge.

Pause, think, then reply.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2006 12:41PM by trekroner.

Turbo Mirage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> for the longest while the county was actually
> denying people CCL just because the clerks at the
> court didn't like the fact that people could carry
> weapons unknowingly.

what a jackass.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

trekroner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I agree with you, that there's some some degree of
> hero aspiration going on here with folks who
> openly carry weapons. I'm waiting to hear their
> reasons for doing so, guessing that most won't
> admit to either being fearful or wanting to be a
> hero.

I don't open carry, but as for why someone do it may be as simple as the reasons why people protest or pray in public... it is a constitutional right and they just want to. Just because someone is doing something that is legal but not widespread behavior doesn't mean they are a nutcase or a freak. It may be as simple as being more comfortable that having a firearm in a paddle holster behind a waistband.

I don't carry to be a hero at all... in fact if someone started shooting up a store my reaction would probably be to start screaming like a girl and running like everyone else would. I'm not looking for trouble but if it finds me while I'm pumping gas or walking out of a 7-11 at night, I don't think telling the attacker to hold on while I call the police will work out quite well.

And trekoner, as for carrying in Fairfax County the open vs concealed argument is totally legit, just as disagreements over someone's use of free speech in public is. Restaurant owners feel the same way about open carry and wish that people could carry concealed in their establishments as it may avoid questions. Look at Vermont... there is no concealed carry permit because any law-abiding citizen can do it there without one.

Where I disagree with you is the implication that Fairfax County is somehow safe enough that citizens don't need to carry firearms. It isn't. There are gangs and criminals here, not just soccer moms and IT techs. As an example, go to the FCPD Web site and look at the crime news bulletins. If you find one that reports on the police stopping a crime in progress as opposed to reporting on a crime already committed then you've found a rare gem indeed. Police catch criminals and try to provide a disincentive for people to commit crime, but they don't (and can't) stop crimes in progress. It is up to citizens to make their own decisions on how to protect themselves from criminals. If they trust their ability to run or assume nothing will ever happen to them that's fine and their right. To me that's as smart as not saving a dime for retirement and hoping (and assuming) in twenty or thirty years that social security will cover me. Only after I am a victim of a crime (or working until I'm 80) will I look back and say that maybe I should have been a little more prepared.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2006 09:27PM by pgens.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> trekroner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I agree with you, that there's some some degree
> of
> > hero aspiration going on here with folks who
> > openly carry weapons. I'm waiting to hear their
> > reasons for doing so, guessing that most won't
> > admit to either being fearful or wanting to be
> a
> > hero.
>
> I don't open carry, but as for why someone do it
> may be as simple as the reasons why people protest
> or pray in public... it is a constitutional right
> and they just want to. Just because someone is
> doing something that is legal but not widespread
> behavior doesn't mean they are a nutcase or a
> freak. It may be as simple as being more
> comfortable that having a firearm in a paddle
> holster behind a waistband.
>
> I don't carry to be a hero at all... in fact if
> someone started shooting up a store my reaction
> would probably be to start screaming like a girl
> and running like everyone else would. I'm not
> looking for trouble but if it finds me while I'm
> pumping gas or walking out of a 7-11 at night, I
> don't think telling the attacker to hold on while
> I call the police will work out quite well.
>
> And trekoner, as for carrying in Fairfax County
> the open vs concealed argument is totally legit,
> just as disagreements over someone's use of free
> speech in public is. Restaurant owners feel the
> same way about open carry and wish that people
> could carry concealed in their establishments as
> it may avoid questions. Look at Vermont... there
> is no concealed carry permit because any
> law-abiding citizen can do it there without one.
>
>
> Where I disagree with you is the implication that
> Fairfax County is somehow safe enough that
> citizens don't need to carry firearms. It isn't.
> There are gangs and criminals here, not just
> soccer moms and IT techs. As an example, go to
> the FCPD Web site and look at the crime news
> bulletins. If you find one that reports on the
> police stopping a crime in progress as opposed to
> reporting on a crime already committed then you've
> found a rare gem indeed. Police catch criminals
> and try to provide a disincentive for people to
> commit crime, but they don't (and can't) stop
> crimes in progress. It is up to citizens to take
> make their own decisions on how to protect
> themselves from criminals. If they trust their
> ability to run or assume nothing will ever happen
> to them that's fine and their right. To me that's
> as smart as not saving a dime for retirement and
> hoping (and assuming) in twenty or thirty years
> that social security will cover me. Only after I
> am a victim of a crime (or working until I'm 80)
> will I look back and say that maybe I should have
> been a little more prepared.

You make some very good points, pgens--thanks for your input. It ultimately comes down to responsibility; if people who openly carry weapons do so in a responsible manner and for a sincere purpose (and not simply as a testosterone crutch to be abused in road rage incidents and the like) it's much more acceptable.

Personally, though, I'm still in favor of citizens being able to obtain concealed carry permits through an affordable, safe, screening process--and subseqently not advertising their decision to carry.

A gun is not an accessory; and while many undoubtedly do wear it as an expression of their Constitutional right to do so, they should remember that their decision potentially affects those around them--which is why people have a legitimate right to be concerned. You may be the most responsible gun owner on the planet, but strangers have no way of knowing that. Accidents happen, and as we've seen, the gun can fall into the hands of those with far more sinister intentions, putting more than than just the gun owner at risk.

http://www.examiner.com/a-228800~Would_Be_Robber_With_Screwdriver_Foiled.html

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.examiner.com/a-228800~Would_Be_Robber_W
> ith_Screwdriver_Foiled.html


That's a good example of a best-case scenario; a civilian prevented a robbery in progress without anyone getting hurt. That he did so with a valid gun permit makes it even better. Given that he had the permit, I'm guessing the gun had also been concealed--remaining out of sight and out of mind of those around him, until it became necessary.

I could just as easily conclude he did NOT have it concealed... the article does not say.

Some states force you to be permitted to carry a handgun without regard to concealment..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2006 09:24PM by RESton Peace.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could just as easily conclude he did NOT have
> it concealed... the article does not say.
>
> Some states force you to be permitted to carry a
> handgun without regard to concealment..


All of which again raises the question--about whether criminals would be less likely to even attempt such robberies if they see civilians openly carrying weapons. While the article didn't say whether this gentleman had a concealed 9mm or not, logic dictates that the would-be robber never saw it until he was in its sights--which would seem to point towards concealed.

The guy was in another room of the restaurant. I doubt the robber, who was probably nervous, would have seen a canon sitting on the guy's table, much less a small gun holstered to a guy sitting down...

But hey, I can theorize like this all night if you can. I've got an 8 hour shift to fill here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2006 12:21AM by RESton Peace.

I'll pass, thanks.

Since you've got the time to kill, though, feel free to track down whoever wrote the article (or the Indy police). Perhaps they can answer the open carry/concealed question definitively--not that it matters at this point... it would just a sidebar to a story that had a positive outcome for a change.

Hmm interesting idea, perhaps I will do that.

By Vic Ryckaert
vic.ryckaert@indystar.co

Before this goes on and on about if you can carry a gun openly remember that Virginia is a big state and a lot of it is rural. Seeing someone carrying a rifle in south west Virginia is no big deal. Seeing them walk around here with one is probably cause to be concerned but is still not against the law.
It was Fairfax being so hard headed and stingy about concealed weapons permits that made the state take over and change the law.

Local jurisdictions cannot make new gun laws, only the state has that authority.
It started a few years back when people who probably should have been given permits in Fairfax were denied just because Fairfax could. The people went to the state and showed how unreasonable Fairfax was and the law was changed.

The state was also one ahead of Alexandria who wanted to make the application fee some huge cost and the state planned ahead by capping the fee at $45.00

Tim45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before this goes on and on about if you can carry
> a gun openly remember that Virginia is a big state
> and a lot of it is rural. Seeing someone carrying
> a rifle in south west Virginia is no big deal.
> Seeing them walk around here with one is probably
> cause to be concerned but is still not against the
> law.
> It was Fairfax being so hard headed and stingy
> about concealed weapons permits that made the
> state take over and change the law.
>
> Local jurisdictions cannot make new gun laws, only
> the state has that authority.
> It started a few years back when people who
> probably should have been given permits in Fairfax
> were denied just because Fairfax could. The people
> went to the state and showed how unreasonable
> Fairfax was and the law was changed.
>
> The state was also one ahead of Alexandria who
> wanted to make the application fee some huge cost
> and the state planned ahead by capping the fee at
> $45.00

Thanks, Tim. That sounds very much like what I remember Maryland doing in the early 90s--discouraging citizens from even applying for handgun permits by making the application fee unreasonably expensive (and non-refundable, if it were denied).

Was the perp caught?

Updated info please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was the perp caught?


The OP story was discussed adnausium elsewhere(pro 2A sites), the story was a fake