I had my home inspected as part of my preparation for selling it and the inspector indicated I have an electrical box that has had its UL Listed approval rescinded. He listed it in his report back to my buyer and of course the buyer wants it replaced prior to closing. I offered to lower my price commensurate with the replacement costs but, the buyer wants it replaced.

I've gotten 3 bids...Kolb, Rush and Walsh. $1,800 was the low bid. Is that the market rate here for this kind of job? I'm in Alexandria.

Angie's List runs specials on that job. Pretty common. Upgrade at the same time.

I had mine done a few years ago during a major remodeling job. It was just under $1,900 for a typical two story with basement and standard appliances.

Two words: Root Electric

Sounds about right.

The sad part is it will only take someone about 3-4 hours if they know what they are doing. So that works out to be about $300 per hour with parts. Lawyers are typically not this much!! Most electricians typically charge between $90 and $125 per hour in this area last I was aware.

But I would rather try to credit the buyer the amount. This way you are not in a situation where there are surprises or someone comes back and "claims" it is still not correct. I would make the case this gives the buyer more options and allows them to get things done the way they want it done. You may need not bump up the number to $2000-$2500 as a credit for the buyer.

What brand of circuit breaker panel and circuit breakers are you dealing with?

Federal Pacific Electric??

http://swartzelectric.biz/why-federal-pacific-electric-panels-need-replacing/

Tell the buyers they have two choices. They can take a $2,500 credit at closing and have it replaced themselves or they can go fuck themselves and buy another house. You can probably list it and get an additional $5,000 or $10,000 more for the house in the spring when the market is more robust.

$1800 for the panel replacement is a decent price, and that is $1000 profit for the contractor. A meter replacement and/or service upgrade will cost a few hundred more.

Another vote for Root Electric.

Root Electric offers good prices & quality work. If I have more work done, I'll go to them again.


I tried another contractor, but didn't care for them.

Thank you for all of the responses.

Save Money Wrote:
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> Angie's List runs specials on that job. Pretty
> common. Upgrade at the same time.


This is true. Always check Angie's list. Also I was quoted $2000 for a new breaker box when an electrician was replacing a bad breaker about a year ago.

How about the fine folks over at Michael and Sons?

A Shocking Experience Wrote:
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> How about the fine folks over at Michael and Sons?


Not sure I would go there.

I had a job where Mr. Sparky had to replace a panel in a very old house that was in a closet. The panel probably should have been moved, but this was not in the cards for many reasons.

Luckily the Mr Sparky guy was small and fit in the closet to do the job.

I recall the job was like $3k, not worth it IMHO, but it needed to be done and it took like 5-6 hours because the panel location was pretty tight.

These electricians clean up on the panel replacements, I guess they make up for all the outlet and switch replacements that are low margin.

Call their bluff Wrote:
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> Tell the buyers they have two choices. They can
> take a $2,500 credit at closing and have it
> replaced themselves or they can go fuck themselves
> and buy another house.

My guess is the OP doesn't have the guts to go there but this really is the better option. The seller doesn't have to worry about the job not being done correctly or the electrician discovering other must repair items. The buyer can have the job done by a contractor of his choosing on the seller's dime.

Bill.N. Wrote:
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> Call their bluff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Tell the buyers they have two choices. They
> can
> > take a $2,500 credit at closing and have it
> > replaced themselves or they can go fuck
> themselves
> > and buy another house.
>
> My guess is the OP doesn't have the guts to go
> there but this really is the better option. The
> seller doesn't have to worry about the job not
> being done correctly or the electrician
> discovering other must repair items. The buyer
> can have the job done by a contractor of his
> choosing on the seller's dime.


OP did not even post the amperage or the location of the panel. Those are the two main factors in determining the price. Panel boxes that are drywalled in are more labor and the drywall often conceals additional code violations that will have to be resolved before it is inspected.
If I was the buyer I would walk away from the sale if the seller would not fix it and have a permit pulled unless there was something really special about the house.

Like a previous poster mentioned, there's not exactly every piece of info that would be needed to make a fair assessment of if the amount quoted is worth the work, but the cost difference between a 100A load center vs. a 200A load center is negligible. The cost of permits is likely to be different, but again, probably not enough to make much of a difference in the final price.

Most load centers are flush mounted into the wall. The Electrician has to remove the drywall far enough to remove each circuit, a jacketed cable containing three wires (Romex) in most cases. Each circuit breaker is feeding a circuit and there are several of them. Therefore, the contractor has to be very careful with removing these circuits from the existing load center, as they will be reused (tied) back into the new load center. The older the existing cable is the more fragile the outer jacket, inner insulation, and overall conductors will be. Age affects everything. Nothing lasts forever.

Part of the price is for material, another part is for permits, another part is for the brunt labor, then there's overhead - ya know, the greedy owner of the Electrical Contracting company has to get his grubby paws on some of that too! I joke about the contractor! An Electrician is a skilled worker that has spent many, many years as an apprentice before showing up at your door step to look at your problem. Some make it look easier than others. I know I wouldn't like to be on my feet almost all day long making more money for someone else than I am making for myself. That's really the financial reality of the working world we live in, well, at least for most of us!

If you got three prices from three companies that looked at the same project, then you pretty much are trying to match apples to apples. The only way you would truly figure that out would be to have three identical projects and have each of them perform the work and compare. Some are more meticulous than others with certain aspects of their work! I'd be willing to bet that all three would happily slap one of their stickers on your new load center for you to call them for future work!

I understand where you are coming from RC. When you make a bid on a used house though, you are usually buying it "as is", warts and all. If you want to buy a 1980s home with an electrical system that has been redone to 2016 standards, you should specifically seek out such a home, or make your offer contingent upon the seller upgrading the electrical system. Otherwise you are getting something more than the bargained for purchase price provided.

Chances are that the manufacturer of the box that lost its UL listing had a replacement program in place at one time where the box could have been replaced at little or no cost to the homeowner. There was a whole sub division of Yeonas houses in Centreville from the late 70s that went through this and I replaced quite a few of them. There were several fires as a result of those boxes.
The house could legally be condemned right now and I'm sure the Insurer and/or lien-holder would demand the upgrade be made. This is a different situation than a as-is home defect.

Related reading,

http://inspectapedia.com/fpe/FPE_Stab_Lok_Hazard_Summary.php

My house was built in 1974. It has a Zinsco brand electrical box. After hearing from my bidding contractors that this box is unsafe, I spent 25 minutes online researching this before I decided to go ahead and pay to have it replaced myself rather than keep telling prospective buyers that I'll lower the price or they can....and I quote "go fuck themselves". On the one hand, it's been in service for over 40 years without a problem but, on the other hand this information will be on every and any home inspection going forward until it's replaced. I just don't have the patience to find a buyer who is willing to overlook this.

The unfortunate part of this is, I bought the place in 2007 but it wasn't until 2008 that Underwriter's Laboratories pulled their certification on the panel. I had a home inspection done when I bought the place but, this wasn't on home inspectors' radars at that time.

There was no official recall on this that I can find and if there was, I wasn't the owner then. Zinsco was bought by GTE-Sylvania in 1973, which is also unfortunate given when my home was built.

Upon reading the fine print on my bids, for the same price, 2 of the 3 bids including permitting, inspection AND all dry wall repair, patching and painting. This panel is indeed dry walled in so, that's definitely a factor here. It's located in my kitchen on the ground floor of the house.

The good news is, I'm upgrading from a 150amp panel to a 200 amp panel.

Shocky.McSparky Wrote:
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> My house was built in 1974. It has a Zinsco brand
> electrical box. After hearing from my bidding
> contractors that this box is unsafe, I spent 25
> minutes online researching this before I decided
> to go ahead and pay to have it replaced myself
> rather than keep telling prospective buyers that
> I'll lower the price or they can....and I quote
> "go fuck themselves". On the one hand, it's been
> in service for over 40 years without a problem
> but, on the other hand this information will be on
> every and any home inspection going forward until
> it's replaced. I just don't have the patience to
> find a buyer who is willing to overlook this.
>
> The unfortunate part of this is, I bought the
> place in 2007 but it wasn't until 2008 that
> Underwriter's Laboratories pulled their
> certification on the panel. I had a home
> inspection done when I bought the place but, this
> wasn't on home inspectors' radars at that time.
>
> There was no official recall on this that I can
> find and if there was, I wasn't the owner then.
> Zinsco was bought by GTE-Sylvania in 1973, which
> is also unfortunate given when my home was built.
>
> Upon reading the fine print on my bids, for the
> same price, 2 of the 3 bids including permitting,
> inspection AND all dry wall repair, patching and
> painting. This panel is indeed dry walled in so,
> that's definitely a factor here. It's located in
> my kitchen on the ground floor of the house.
>
> The good news is, I'm upgrading from a 150amp
> panel to a 200 amp panel.


Next time just a modern home, with modern features of safety.

Had to have this done as well. The electrician found aluminum wire in a couple of circuits (dryer and run to basement) and said they wouldn't pass inspection. Both branch circuits had to be replaced with copper. Added another $1200 after repairing the drywall. Rat bastard builders from the 1970's.

Cheech Wrote:
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> Had to have this done as well. The electrician
> found aluminum wire in a couple of circuits (dryer
> and run to basement) and said they wouldn't pass
> inspection. Both branch circuits had to be
> replaced with copper. Added another $1200 after
> repairing the drywall. Rat bastard builders from
> the 1970's.


Nothing wrong with aluminum wire to an electric dryer as long as it is the proper gauge. At least 80% of all electric dryers,ovens and water heaters in this area are wired with aluminum wire. Most A/C and heat pump units are wired with aluminum to the top of the disconnect switch anyway.

Ghetto Ain't Cool Wrote:
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>
> Next time just a modern home, with modern features
> of safety.

Complete with low quality timber and masonry walls that are cosmetic rather than structural, located either further out or on small infill lots.

I'll take my 1970 craftsman over any new home. It got lots of flaws, but is soundproof between floors. You have to go to the basement level to tell the kids it time to eat. Cant hear footsteps across the floor either. It's drafty around the Windows, but replacement is easy. Much cheaper than buying a new home

On the other hand, I've been in new homes where you can hear a dog walk. I was in new 700k townhouse where you could hear the neighbors dog go down the top level stairs.

Cheech Wrote:
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> Had to have this done as well. The electrician
> found aluminum wire in a couple of circuits (dryer
> and run to basement) and said they wouldn't pass
> inspection. Both branch circuits had to be
> replaced with copper. Added another $1200 after
> repairing the drywall. Rat bastard builders from
> the 1970's.

Yea, I call BS on the aluminum being required to be re-run in copper.

Unless the aluminum was too small to begin with, aluminum wire is approved and does meet code if used and installed properly.

The service drop to every home is aluminum wire and the wire from the power meter to the breaker panel is always aluminum as well.

UPLMC Wrote:
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> The service drop to every home is aluminum wire
> and the wire from the power meter to the breaker
> panel is always aluminum as well.

Why is aluminum preferred for that run? Just curious; other than Harry Homeowner work (replacing switches, light fixtures) I make no claims to electrician skills!

Greybeard Wrote:
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> UPLMC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The service drop to every home is aluminum wire
> > and the wire from the power meter to the
> breaker
> > panel is always aluminum as well.
>
> Why is aluminum preferred for that run? Just
> curious; other than Harry Homeowner work
> (replacing switches, light fixtures) I make no
> claims to electrician skills!

Much lower cost.

I have seen older homes with copper service but I doubt it has been used in the last 40 years or so.

Do not go to the company that sounds like a office supply store. Guy is a total dick that owns it.