Fairfax County General :
Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
Wondering
()
Date: July 05, 2009 02:06PM
From today's Washington Post:
Click here if you want to vote in the Post's poll:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/04/AR2009070402623.html?hpid=topnews
To Be or Not to Be Fairfax County?
That Is the Question Residents, Leaders Ask in the Increasingly Urban Suburb
By Sandhya Somashekhar and Amy Gardner
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, July 5, 2009
Fairfax County has long been viewed as the ultimate burb, where Washington goes to walk the dog and water the lawn. But the more residents look around, the more they see what many have tried to avoid: high-rise offices, blight, crime and housing that's more likely to have a balcony than a back yard.
That changing reality came into focus last week when County Executive Anthony H. Griffin raised the possibility of officially making Fairfax a city, prompting discussion among county supervisors about whether the community of more than 1 million residents should highlight its status as an enormous jobs center that is rapidly urbanizing or embrace its classic suburban nature.
The basis for the idea is largely tactical -- under state law, cities have more taxing power and greater control over roads than counties do -- and it led to more than a few snickers about the thrilling nightlife in downtown Fairfax (punch line: there isn't any).
Regardless of whether the county changes its status, a process that requires approval from voters, the state and courts, the discussion underscored a growing tension within Virginia's largest jurisdiction. What does Fairfax want to be? A giant urban expanse like many new Sun Belt cities? Or more of a residential suburb, with a handful of urbanized pockets sprinkled in?
The Fairfax of today is somewhere in between. Its 400 square miles include a sea of cul-de-sacs, parks, pools and soccer fields, especially in its southern and western stretches. McLean and Great Falls remain high-end havens for some of the region's most exclusive addresses. Clifton still feels like the country.
Meanwhile, dense, Arlington County-style urban villages are quickly claiming the skylines of Vienna, Merrifield and Springfield, and county plans envision those and other developments ballooning over the next decade. Tysons Corner is already an economic and commercial behemoth, and it's only going to get bigger as development clusters around the Metrorail extension. The Route 1 corridor and other pockets are increasingly marked by blight.
On an uncrowded weekday afternoon at Old Keene Mill Swim and Racquet Club in Burke last week, Fairfax's still-shining suburban glory was on display. A gaggle of children with rackets under their arms ran up a hill to tennis courts. A mother coated her daughter with sunscreen by the pool, where a few dozen kids splashed and adults sat under giant umbrellas. Another mother walked from her car with packets of hot dogs and buns toward the club's grills and picnic tables.
"I personally would hate to see any more of a city feel to Fairfax County," Nancy Ohanian, 52, said while floating on foam noodles with her 9-year-old daughter. "We're losing so many trees. And I sure don't want to see my taxes go any higher."
For these families, Burke is their corner of suburban bliss, a community so complete that they rarely venture more than a mile or two beyond their homes.
"It had all the ingredients that I wanted for my family," said Mary Holden, 46, a mother of four. "My kids' schools, their sports teams, their friends, the shopping -- it's all here. I can go a whole week not ever leaving Burke, quite happy."
Holden and others probably would be quite unhappy if they ventured about 10 miles north to Merrifield. There, two sleek new five-story apartment buildings rise from a weedy parking lot. The bottom floor of one building is taken up by restaurants, a jewelry store and a tailor. The sound of nearby traffic roars as workers in scrubs from the nearby hospital brush past women with strollers and groups of young men.
It was in Merrifield that county leaders celebrated their newest "park" last month -- a brick-lined plaza with a fountain and some benches centered between new apartment buildings.
It's just that kind of urban feel that attracted residents such as Duy Anh Huynh. "I definitely think of Fairfax as a city. It's awesome, very vibrant," Huynh, 34, said after picking up dinner at a burrito joint within walking distance of his apartment.
Many policymakers and planners believe Fairfax has no choice but to continue to grow along the Merrifield model. The alternative is for the same suburban development patterns to worsen traffic, pollution and sprawl -- or for the growth that is expected to continue regionwide to pass Fairfax by. After that comes decline, they say.
"What would you rather do, leave it the way it is?" asked Robert E. Lang, author of the book "Edgeless Cities" and co-director of the Metropolitan Institute at Virginia Tech. "It's neither fish nor fowl. They are going to be out-citied by Arlington and out-countried by Loudoun."
None of this means that redevelopment of Tysons or any other corner of Fairfax guarantees success. Politicians, planners and nervous neighbors are acutely aware of the perils of building up: more traffic if commuting patterns don't change; higher taxes to pay for the massive foundation of infrastructure that must be built; and, eventually, blight if Fairfax's new urban spaces or overall economy don't thrive.
So far, Fairfax has been fortunate to escape many of the downsides of urbanization. The percentage of people living in poverty has declined slightly this decade, and average income, fueled by an explosion in federal contracting and the technology industries, has risen.
Crime, notably robbery, ticked up in 2007, the most recent year for which data are available, but it followed a national trend and remains well below national averages.
The one typically urban issue Fairfax is grappling with is neighborhood blight. Old neighborhoods such as Kings Park along Braddock Road or Huntington along Route 1 have been struggling with decline. Unkempt rented homes and falling property values dot these landscapes. Some areas, such as the partly vacant mall in downtown Springfield, have developed such an unsavory reputation that several of the mothers in Burke said they do not allow their teenage children to go there.
County leaders say their plans to redevelop such places as Tysons and Springfield will help reverse such decline rather than precipitate it. They say the central perils of building up are the impacts on surrounding neighborhoods, not rising crime or declining schools.
"Whether we like it or not, change is coming to Fairfax County," said Supervisor John C. Cook (R-Braddock). "We are urbanizing. That doesn't mean that anything has to change for the residents of Clifton or Braddock, but staying static is not an option."
In reality, an official redesignation from county to city is no simple task. Experts say it would be the largest such effort in modern Virginia history, and county leaders might prefer a more subtle route to achieve their goal of improving their transportation network, a task they say the state has failed to do.
If Fairfax does become a city, it would instantly become one of the largest in the nation, the size of San Antonio or San Jose.
It would also diverge dramatically from the stereotype of the gritty metropolis. Fairfax enjoys many of the benefits -- wealth and jobs -- and few of the detriments -- crime, troubled schools -- of a large urban center. With a median household income of $105,000, it is the wealthiest large county in the nation. Among large school systems, it boasts the highest test scores. And it has the lowest murder rate among the nation's 30 largest cities and counties.
Still, the city label doesn't quite fit for some community leaders. Supervisor John W. Foust (D-Dranesville) represents the largely suburban area around McLean and Herndon, where some residents worry that transformation in nearby Tysons will worsen traffic in their neighborhoods. The cul-de-sac lifestyle they have chosen is still the one that defines Fairfax, he said.
"I think the county form serves us pretty well," he said. "Future growth will be more urban, but we've got a huge population that has chosen a suburban model."
Click here if you want to vote in the Post's poll:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/04/AR2009070402623.html?hpid=topnews
To Be or Not to Be Fairfax County?
That Is the Question Residents, Leaders Ask in the Increasingly Urban Suburb
By Sandhya Somashekhar and Amy Gardner
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, July 5, 2009
Fairfax County has long been viewed as the ultimate burb, where Washington goes to walk the dog and water the lawn. But the more residents look around, the more they see what many have tried to avoid: high-rise offices, blight, crime and housing that's more likely to have a balcony than a back yard.
That changing reality came into focus last week when County Executive Anthony H. Griffin raised the possibility of officially making Fairfax a city, prompting discussion among county supervisors about whether the community of more than 1 million residents should highlight its status as an enormous jobs center that is rapidly urbanizing or embrace its classic suburban nature.
The basis for the idea is largely tactical -- under state law, cities have more taxing power and greater control over roads than counties do -- and it led to more than a few snickers about the thrilling nightlife in downtown Fairfax (punch line: there isn't any).
Regardless of whether the county changes its status, a process that requires approval from voters, the state and courts, the discussion underscored a growing tension within Virginia's largest jurisdiction. What does Fairfax want to be? A giant urban expanse like many new Sun Belt cities? Or more of a residential suburb, with a handful of urbanized pockets sprinkled in?
The Fairfax of today is somewhere in between. Its 400 square miles include a sea of cul-de-sacs, parks, pools and soccer fields, especially in its southern and western stretches. McLean and Great Falls remain high-end havens for some of the region's most exclusive addresses. Clifton still feels like the country.
Meanwhile, dense, Arlington County-style urban villages are quickly claiming the skylines of Vienna, Merrifield and Springfield, and county plans envision those and other developments ballooning over the next decade. Tysons Corner is already an economic and commercial behemoth, and it's only going to get bigger as development clusters around the Metrorail extension. The Route 1 corridor and other pockets are increasingly marked by blight.
On an uncrowded weekday afternoon at Old Keene Mill Swim and Racquet Club in Burke last week, Fairfax's still-shining suburban glory was on display. A gaggle of children with rackets under their arms ran up a hill to tennis courts. A mother coated her daughter with sunscreen by the pool, where a few dozen kids splashed and adults sat under giant umbrellas. Another mother walked from her car with packets of hot dogs and buns toward the club's grills and picnic tables.
"I personally would hate to see any more of a city feel to Fairfax County," Nancy Ohanian, 52, said while floating on foam noodles with her 9-year-old daughter. "We're losing so many trees. And I sure don't want to see my taxes go any higher."
For these families, Burke is their corner of suburban bliss, a community so complete that they rarely venture more than a mile or two beyond their homes.
"It had all the ingredients that I wanted for my family," said Mary Holden, 46, a mother of four. "My kids' schools, their sports teams, their friends, the shopping -- it's all here. I can go a whole week not ever leaving Burke, quite happy."
Holden and others probably would be quite unhappy if they ventured about 10 miles north to Merrifield. There, two sleek new five-story apartment buildings rise from a weedy parking lot. The bottom floor of one building is taken up by restaurants, a jewelry store and a tailor. The sound of nearby traffic roars as workers in scrubs from the nearby hospital brush past women with strollers and groups of young men.
It was in Merrifield that county leaders celebrated their newest "park" last month -- a brick-lined plaza with a fountain and some benches centered between new apartment buildings.
It's just that kind of urban feel that attracted residents such as Duy Anh Huynh. "I definitely think of Fairfax as a city. It's awesome, very vibrant," Huynh, 34, said after picking up dinner at a burrito joint within walking distance of his apartment.
Many policymakers and planners believe Fairfax has no choice but to continue to grow along the Merrifield model. The alternative is for the same suburban development patterns to worsen traffic, pollution and sprawl -- or for the growth that is expected to continue regionwide to pass Fairfax by. After that comes decline, they say.
"What would you rather do, leave it the way it is?" asked Robert E. Lang, author of the book "Edgeless Cities" and co-director of the Metropolitan Institute at Virginia Tech. "It's neither fish nor fowl. They are going to be out-citied by Arlington and out-countried by Loudoun."
None of this means that redevelopment of Tysons or any other corner of Fairfax guarantees success. Politicians, planners and nervous neighbors are acutely aware of the perils of building up: more traffic if commuting patterns don't change; higher taxes to pay for the massive foundation of infrastructure that must be built; and, eventually, blight if Fairfax's new urban spaces or overall economy don't thrive.
So far, Fairfax has been fortunate to escape many of the downsides of urbanization. The percentage of people living in poverty has declined slightly this decade, and average income, fueled by an explosion in federal contracting and the technology industries, has risen.
Crime, notably robbery, ticked up in 2007, the most recent year for which data are available, but it followed a national trend and remains well below national averages.
The one typically urban issue Fairfax is grappling with is neighborhood blight. Old neighborhoods such as Kings Park along Braddock Road or Huntington along Route 1 have been struggling with decline. Unkempt rented homes and falling property values dot these landscapes. Some areas, such as the partly vacant mall in downtown Springfield, have developed such an unsavory reputation that several of the mothers in Burke said they do not allow their teenage children to go there.
County leaders say their plans to redevelop such places as Tysons and Springfield will help reverse such decline rather than precipitate it. They say the central perils of building up are the impacts on surrounding neighborhoods, not rising crime or declining schools.
"Whether we like it or not, change is coming to Fairfax County," said Supervisor John C. Cook (R-Braddock). "We are urbanizing. That doesn't mean that anything has to change for the residents of Clifton or Braddock, but staying static is not an option."
In reality, an official redesignation from county to city is no simple task. Experts say it would be the largest such effort in modern Virginia history, and county leaders might prefer a more subtle route to achieve their goal of improving their transportation network, a task they say the state has failed to do.
If Fairfax does become a city, it would instantly become one of the largest in the nation, the size of San Antonio or San Jose.
It would also diverge dramatically from the stereotype of the gritty metropolis. Fairfax enjoys many of the benefits -- wealth and jobs -- and few of the detriments -- crime, troubled schools -- of a large urban center. With a median household income of $105,000, it is the wealthiest large county in the nation. Among large school systems, it boasts the highest test scores. And it has the lowest murder rate among the nation's 30 largest cities and counties.
Still, the city label doesn't quite fit for some community leaders. Supervisor John W. Foust (D-Dranesville) represents the largely suburban area around McLean and Herndon, where some residents worry that transformation in nearby Tysons will worsen traffic in their neighborhoods. The cul-de-sac lifestyle they have chosen is still the one that defines Fairfax, he said.
"I think the county form serves us pretty well," he said. "Future growth will be more urban, but we've got a huge population that has chosen a suburban model."
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
ffxn8v
()
Date: July 05, 2009 03:10PM
No. Absolutely NOT!
This is a ploy by the FFX Chairperson to cry a little, about how our county does not get enough tax $$$$ back for roads, etc.
Maybe if they didn't allow builders to freely build without contributing to infrastructure for so long, it would not be so bad.
Regarding the grass being cut, who cares. As long as it is not a safety hazard (in intersections, etc.), it does not matter to me.
Herrity has it right - as usual.
This is a ploy by the FFX Chairperson to cry a little, about how our county does not get enough tax $$$$ back for roads, etc.
Maybe if they didn't allow builders to freely build without contributing to infrastructure for so long, it would not be so bad.
Regarding the grass being cut, who cares. As long as it is not a safety hazard (in intersections, etc.), it does not matter to me.
Herrity has it right - as usual.
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
stupid
()
Date: July 05, 2009 05:51PM
I agree. What a completely STUPID idea. Fairfax is a COUNTY...period! Not surprising though, since Fairfax embraces stupidity. What a DUMB idea.
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
Fruppie
()
Date: July 05, 2009 06:15PM
Wondering Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From today's Washington Post:
>
>
> The basis for the idea is largely tactical --
> under state law, cities have more taxing power and
> greater control over roads than counties do -- and
> it led to more than a few snickers about the
> thrilling nightlife in downtown Fairfax (punch
> line: there isn't any).
That's stupid.
-------------------------------------------------------
> From today's Washington Post:
>
>
> The basis for the idea is largely tactical --
> under state law, cities have more taxing power and
> greater control over roads than counties do -- and
> it led to more than a few snickers about the
> thrilling nightlife in downtown Fairfax (punch
> line: there isn't any).
That's stupid.
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
Tax question
()
Date: July 05, 2009 06:33PM
Could someone explain how the tax situation differs between counties, towns and cities in VA - and overall, what comes in and out between us and the state
I see the comment that cities get more per road-mile (perhaps the answer would be to go to some capitation formula for VDOT state-wide rather than road miles)?
I heard a comment that one of the reasons that FFX cities' schools all look new and shiny is that they keep more of the taxes that we have to send to Richmond - is there any truth in this?
I'd be happy if our local elected official's got some spine in Richmond and ensured that more of our taxes came back to our area - I hear that its only about 25 cents on the dollar at the moment - that feels abusive to me
If we could get that 25% upto 75% (which I think could be fair to us and generous to rural VA), then I'd vote for pretty much anything.
I see the comment that cities get more per road-mile (perhaps the answer would be to go to some capitation formula for VDOT state-wide rather than road miles)?
I heard a comment that one of the reasons that FFX cities' schools all look new and shiny is that they keep more of the taxes that we have to send to Richmond - is there any truth in this?
I'd be happy if our local elected official's got some spine in Richmond and ensured that more of our taxes came back to our area - I hear that its only about 25 cents on the dollar at the moment - that feels abusive to me
If we could get that 25% upto 75% (which I think could be fair to us and generous to rural VA), then I'd vote for pretty much anything.
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: July 05, 2009 07:35PM
ever driven in rural virginia? there is a 4 lane interstate highway with exit ramps to get you where you want to go. For example, drive down I-81 to Blacksburg. Want to go to Va Tech? get on the special interstate built for them. Want to go to George Mason? wait at the traffic light at braddock/123 for 3 cycles.
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
Thurston Moore
()
Date: July 05, 2009 09:16PM
KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ever driven in rural virginia? there is a 4 lane
> interstate highway with exit ramps to get you
> where you want to go. For example, drive down I-81
> to Blacksburg. Want to go to Va Tech? get on the
> special interstate built for them. Want to go to
> George Mason? wait at the traffic light at
> braddock/123 for 3 cycles.
To be fair, some of that has to do with density, not just favoritism with tax dollars.
In Blacksburg, the density of land use is such that they don't need to condemn 300 homes in order to make an expressway from the highway to the school. In fact, they probably only needed to buy parcels of land from a few land owners, not entire properties, entire neighborhoods, entire subdivisions.
The political, social and economic dynamics of road building are vastly different in "the real virginia" and Northern Va.
Of course, the political social and economic dynamics of how "the real virginia" usurps our tax money and only gives us crumbs is just as tangible and real.
-------------------------------------------------------
> ever driven in rural virginia? there is a 4 lane
> interstate highway with exit ramps to get you
> where you want to go. For example, drive down I-81
> to Blacksburg. Want to go to Va Tech? get on the
> special interstate built for them. Want to go to
> George Mason? wait at the traffic light at
> braddock/123 for 3 cycles.
To be fair, some of that has to do with density, not just favoritism with tax dollars.
In Blacksburg, the density of land use is such that they don't need to condemn 300 homes in order to make an expressway from the highway to the school. In fact, they probably only needed to buy parcels of land from a few land owners, not entire properties, entire neighborhoods, entire subdivisions.
The political, social and economic dynamics of road building are vastly different in "the real virginia" and Northern Va.
Of course, the political social and economic dynamics of how "the real virginia" usurps our tax money and only gives us crumbs is just as tangible and real.
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
ThePackLeader
()
Date: July 05, 2009 11:01PM
KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ever driven in rural virginia? there is a 4 lane
> interstate highway with exit ramps to get you
> where you want to go. For example, drive down I-81
> to Blacksburg. Want to go to Va Tech? get on the
> special interstate built for them. Want to go to
> George Mason? wait at the traffic light at
> braddock/123 for 3 cycles.
Of course our money goes elsewhere, look at that stupid Overpass south of Richmond on I-95. The thing looks more like an amusement park ride taking some roller coaster high into the sky, and it's purpose is what? I know it's dumb that the rest of VA leeches our money, but incorporating Fairfax County into a City is not the answer, in fact, it's only a ploy for politicians to gain more power over independent communities when they become the "Fairfax City" Mayor and Council Members. It is truly pathetic, and it would most certainly lead towards space-high taxations (We are already sky high), and an increase in blight and crime (As more focus is taken away from smaller communities).
-------------------------------------------------------
> ever driven in rural virginia? there is a 4 lane
> interstate highway with exit ramps to get you
> where you want to go. For example, drive down I-81
> to Blacksburg. Want to go to Va Tech? get on the
> special interstate built for them. Want to go to
> George Mason? wait at the traffic light at
> braddock/123 for 3 cycles.
Of course our money goes elsewhere, look at that stupid Overpass south of Richmond on I-95. The thing looks more like an amusement park ride taking some roller coaster high into the sky, and it's purpose is what? I know it's dumb that the rest of VA leeches our money, but incorporating Fairfax County into a City is not the answer, in fact, it's only a ploy for politicians to gain more power over independent communities when they become the "Fairfax City" Mayor and Council Members. It is truly pathetic, and it would most certainly lead towards space-high taxations (We are already sky high), and an increase in blight and crime (As more focus is taken away from smaller communities).
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
Thurston Moore
()
Date: July 05, 2009 11:22PM
ThePackLeader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> rest of VA leeches our money, but incorporating
> Fairfax County into a City is not the answer, in
> fact, it's only a ploy for politicians to gain
> more power over independent communities when they
> become the "Fairfax City" Mayor and Council
> Members. It is truly pathetic, and it would most
> certainly lead towards space-high taxations (We
> are already sky high), and an increase in blight
> and crime (As more focus is taken away from
> smaller communities).
Well said. I specifically do not live in an incorporated city or town because I don't want to pay the additional taxes. It's bad enough they backdoor shit in with special tax districts and whatever else. But to incorporate a county as a city is just a tax-ploy and a power play.
Besides, what happens to all the cities and towns that get absorbed into this new "city"?? How do you normalize the services offered in (the now) Fairfax City that aren't offered in the City of Falls Church? Or the services in the Town of Vienna, or Herndon? What services are abandoned and what services would be added from the mix of various existing jurisdictions in this new, "Fairfax County City"?
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> rest of VA leeches our money, but incorporating
> Fairfax County into a City is not the answer, in
> fact, it's only a ploy for politicians to gain
> more power over independent communities when they
> become the "Fairfax City" Mayor and Council
> Members. It is truly pathetic, and it would most
> certainly lead towards space-high taxations (We
> are already sky high), and an increase in blight
> and crime (As more focus is taken away from
> smaller communities).
Well said. I specifically do not live in an incorporated city or town because I don't want to pay the additional taxes. It's bad enough they backdoor shit in with special tax districts and whatever else. But to incorporate a county as a city is just a tax-ploy and a power play.
Besides, what happens to all the cities and towns that get absorbed into this new "city"?? How do you normalize the services offered in (the now) Fairfax City that aren't offered in the City of Falls Church? Or the services in the Town of Vienna, or Herndon? What services are abandoned and what services would be added from the mix of various existing jurisdictions in this new, "Fairfax County City"?
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: July 06, 2009 02:29AM
Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ever driven in rural virginia? there is a 4
> lane
> > interstate highway with exit ramps to get you
> > where you want to go. For example, drive down
> I-81
> > to Blacksburg. Want to go to Va Tech? get on
> the
> > special interstate built for them. Want to go
> to
> > George Mason? wait at the traffic light at
> > braddock/123 for 3 cycles.
>
>
> To be fair, some of that has to do with density,
> not just favoritism with tax dollars.
>
> In Blacksburg, the density of land use is such
> that they don't need to condemn 300 homes in order
> to make an expressway from the highway to the
> school. In fact, they probably only needed to buy
> parcels of land from a few land owners, not entire
> properties, entire neighborhoods, entire
> subdivisions.
>
> The political, social and economic dynamics of
> road building are vastly different in "the real
> virginia" and Northern Va.
>
> Of course, the political social and economic
> dynamics of how "the real virginia" usurps our tax
> money and only gives us crumbs is just as tangible
> and real.
OK, take rt 29/gallows rd intersection. They got the land, even took down one of my favorite taco bells and then said oh wait, we dont ahve any money, nevermind. No more overpass.
-------------------------------------------------------
> KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ever driven in rural virginia? there is a 4
> lane
> > interstate highway with exit ramps to get you
> > where you want to go. For example, drive down
> I-81
> > to Blacksburg. Want to go to Va Tech? get on
> the
> > special interstate built for them. Want to go
> to
> > George Mason? wait at the traffic light at
> > braddock/123 for 3 cycles.
>
>
> To be fair, some of that has to do with density,
> not just favoritism with tax dollars.
>
> In Blacksburg, the density of land use is such
> that they don't need to condemn 300 homes in order
> to make an expressway from the highway to the
> school. In fact, they probably only needed to buy
> parcels of land from a few land owners, not entire
> properties, entire neighborhoods, entire
> subdivisions.
>
> The political, social and economic dynamics of
> road building are vastly different in "the real
> virginia" and Northern Va.
>
> Of course, the political social and economic
> dynamics of how "the real virginia" usurps our tax
> money and only gives us crumbs is just as tangible
> and real.
OK, take rt 29/gallows rd intersection. They got the land, even took down one of my favorite taco bells and then said oh wait, we dont ahve any money, nevermind. No more overpass.
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
Thurston Moore
()
Date: July 06, 2009 03:20AM
KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> OK, take rt 29/gallows rd intersection. They got
> the land, even took down one of my favorite taco
> bells and then said oh wait, we dont ahve any
> money, nevermind. No more overpass.
That's still very much a different project.
Sure, the reason they don't have the money is because jethro and skeeter in southwest VA still need an expressway to their latest still, but an overpass at 29 and Gallows is dealing with a dozen acres, not a several mile long roadway.
In order for GMU to get the same sort of expressway from 495 or even the FFX CNTY PKWY, there would be thousands of homes, some over a million dollars in value, most well over $500,000, that would need to be bought or condemned. That sort of thing would not serve this area's interests.
I mean, Gee, I'd sure like to have a traffic-light free route into GMU on the 2 or 3 occassions I might go there to see a concert or a sporting event, but that desire doesn't justify displacing families living in billions of dollars worth of homes.
Maybe the cops could just better control Braddock and West Ox traffic lights to improve the flow, and leave all those families in thier homes.
Blacksburg doesn't have that problem. They can build an expressway through small patchworks of landowner's properties without seriously disrupting the landowner's use or peace of mind, and often by giving him concessions in other parts of the land. How do you give a concession to 100 families who need to move out of a subdivision in order to build a quick route into GMU? Give them season tickets to the patriot center??
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> OK, take rt 29/gallows rd intersection. They got
> the land, even took down one of my favorite taco
> bells and then said oh wait, we dont ahve any
> money, nevermind. No more overpass.
That's still very much a different project.
Sure, the reason they don't have the money is because jethro and skeeter in southwest VA still need an expressway to their latest still, but an overpass at 29 and Gallows is dealing with a dozen acres, not a several mile long roadway.
In order for GMU to get the same sort of expressway from 495 or even the FFX CNTY PKWY, there would be thousands of homes, some over a million dollars in value, most well over $500,000, that would need to be bought or condemned. That sort of thing would not serve this area's interests.
I mean, Gee, I'd sure like to have a traffic-light free route into GMU on the 2 or 3 occassions I might go there to see a concert or a sporting event, but that desire doesn't justify displacing families living in billions of dollars worth of homes.
Maybe the cops could just better control Braddock and West Ox traffic lights to improve the flow, and leave all those families in thier homes.
Blacksburg doesn't have that problem. They can build an expressway through small patchworks of landowner's properties without seriously disrupting the landowner's use or peace of mind, and often by giving him concessions in other parts of the land. How do you give a concession to 100 families who need to move out of a subdivision in order to build a quick route into GMU? Give them season tickets to the patriot center??
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
Eastsider
()
Date: July 06, 2009 06:40AM
KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, take rt 29/gallows rd intersection. They got
> the land, even took down one of my favorite taco
> bells and then said oh wait, we dont ahve any
> money, nevermind. No more overpass.
That was my favorite Taco Bell, too.
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, take rt 29/gallows rd intersection. They got
> the land, even took down one of my favorite taco
> bells and then said oh wait, we dont ahve any
> money, nevermind. No more overpass.
That was my favorite Taco Bell, too.
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
KeepOnTruckin
()
Date: July 06, 2009 12:16PM
Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > OK, take rt 29/gallows rd intersection. They
> got
> > the land, even took down one of my favorite
> taco
> > bells and then said oh wait, we dont ahve any
> > money, nevermind. No more overpass.
>
> That's still very much a different project.
>
> Sure, the reason they don't have the money is
> because jethro and skeeter in southwest VA still
> need an expressway to their latest still, but an
> overpass at 29 and Gallows is dealing with a dozen
> acres, not a several mile long roadway.
>
> In order for GMU to get the same sort of
> expressway from 495 or even the FFX CNTY PKWY,
> there would be thousands of homes, some over a
> million dollars in value, most well over $500,000,
> that would need to be bought or condemned. That
> sort of thing would not serve this area's
> interests.
>
> I mean, Gee, I'd sure like to have a traffic-light
> free route into GMU on the 2 or 3 occassions I
> might go there to see a concert or a sporting
> event, but that desire doesn't justify displacing
> families living in billions of dollars worth of
> homes.
>
> Maybe the cops could just better control Braddock
> and West Ox traffic lights to improve the flow,
> and leave all those families in thier homes.
>
> Blacksburg doesn't have that problem. They can
> build an expressway through small patchworks of
> landowner's properties without seriously
> disrupting the landowner's use or peace of mind,
> and often by giving him concessions in other parts
> of the land. How do you give a concession to 100
> families who need to move out of a subdivision in
> order to build a quick route into GMU? Give them
> season tickets to the patriot center??
Perhaps you do not go to Mason a lot, but there are many commuter students who do. More commuter students then at Va Tech.
Currently, said students and anyone else who has business at Mason wait in traffic to get there. It's even worse when there is something at patriot center.
Having a quicker way to get there would indeed serve the area's interests.
I know in the burke/fairfax area the houses have been there a long time but in other places where such roads are needed, the houses were'nt there when the road was first envisioned. But of course we had to wait until there was enough money, and by that time houses had been built there. Why didn't we have the money in teh beginning? becuase SoVa was stealing it all
-------------------------------------------------------
> KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > OK, take rt 29/gallows rd intersection. They
> got
> > the land, even took down one of my favorite
> taco
> > bells and then said oh wait, we dont ahve any
> > money, nevermind. No more overpass.
>
> That's still very much a different project.
>
> Sure, the reason they don't have the money is
> because jethro and skeeter in southwest VA still
> need an expressway to their latest still, but an
> overpass at 29 and Gallows is dealing with a dozen
> acres, not a several mile long roadway.
>
> In order for GMU to get the same sort of
> expressway from 495 or even the FFX CNTY PKWY,
> there would be thousands of homes, some over a
> million dollars in value, most well over $500,000,
> that would need to be bought or condemned. That
> sort of thing would not serve this area's
> interests.
>
> I mean, Gee, I'd sure like to have a traffic-light
> free route into GMU on the 2 or 3 occassions I
> might go there to see a concert or a sporting
> event, but that desire doesn't justify displacing
> families living in billions of dollars worth of
> homes.
>
> Maybe the cops could just better control Braddock
> and West Ox traffic lights to improve the flow,
> and leave all those families in thier homes.
>
> Blacksburg doesn't have that problem. They can
> build an expressway through small patchworks of
> landowner's properties without seriously
> disrupting the landowner's use or peace of mind,
> and often by giving him concessions in other parts
> of the land. How do you give a concession to 100
> families who need to move out of a subdivision in
> order to build a quick route into GMU? Give them
> season tickets to the patriot center??
Perhaps you do not go to Mason a lot, but there are many commuter students who do. More commuter students then at Va Tech.
Currently, said students and anyone else who has business at Mason wait in traffic to get there. It's even worse when there is something at patriot center.
Having a quicker way to get there would indeed serve the area's interests.
I know in the burke/fairfax area the houses have been there a long time but in other places where such roads are needed, the houses were'nt there when the road was first envisioned. But of course we had to wait until there was enough money, and by that time houses had been built there. Why didn't we have the money in teh beginning? becuase SoVa was stealing it all
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
Shadow
()
Date: July 06, 2009 08:45PM
Tax question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could someone explain how the tax situation
> differs between counties, towns and cities in VA -
> and overall, what comes in and out between us and
> the state
>
> I see the comment that cities get more per
> road-mile (perhaps the answer would be to go to
> some capitation formula for VDOT state-wide rather
> than road miles)?
>
> I heard a comment that one of the reasons that FFX
> cities' schools all look new and shiny is that
> they keep more of the taxes that we have to send
> to Richmond - is there any truth in this?
>
> I'd be happy if our local elected official's got
> some spine in Richmond and ensured that more of
> our taxes came back to our area - I hear that its
> only about 25 cents on the dollar at the moment -
> that feels abusive to me
>
> If we could get that 25% upto 75% (which I think
> could be fair to us and generous to rural VA),
> then I'd vote for pretty much anything.
Cities don't keep more of the taxes than counties, they just have the ability to charge more taxes in the first place. They then can keep that extra income for city use. IF you go into Fairfax City, you pay a higher sales tax on purchases. The city then uses that money as they wish. Like to make all the old town area roads one way and then change them back to two way years later.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could someone explain how the tax situation
> differs between counties, towns and cities in VA -
> and overall, what comes in and out between us and
> the state
>
> I see the comment that cities get more per
> road-mile (perhaps the answer would be to go to
> some capitation formula for VDOT state-wide rather
> than road miles)?
>
> I heard a comment that one of the reasons that FFX
> cities' schools all look new and shiny is that
> they keep more of the taxes that we have to send
> to Richmond - is there any truth in this?
>
> I'd be happy if our local elected official's got
> some spine in Richmond and ensured that more of
> our taxes came back to our area - I hear that its
> only about 25 cents on the dollar at the moment -
> that feels abusive to me
>
> If we could get that 25% upto 75% (which I think
> could be fair to us and generous to rural VA),
> then I'd vote for pretty much anything.
Cities don't keep more of the taxes than counties, they just have the ability to charge more taxes in the first place. They then can keep that extra income for city use. IF you go into Fairfax City, you pay a higher sales tax on purchases. The city then uses that money as they wish. Like to make all the old town area roads one way and then change them back to two way years later.
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
newgatedenizen
()
Date: July 06, 2009 08:54PM
How is automatic that Fairfax City would be absorbed into the new Fairfax County City?
Re: Should Fairfax County become a city?
Posted by:
drop it
()
Date: July 06, 2009 08:57PM
Shadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cities don't keep more of the taxes than counties,
> they just have the ability to charge more taxes in
> the first place. They then can keep that extra
> income for city use. IF you go into Fairfax City,
> you pay a higher sales tax on purchases. The city
> then uses that money as they wish. Like to make
> all the old town area roads one way and then
> change them back to two way years later.
Precisely. One thing we don't need around here is another layer of taxation.
I live in Fairfax County because I want to live in a suburban environment. If I wanted to live in a city I would move to a city.
This whole idea is simply ridiculous. Fairfax County should stay a county, period. The Board of Supervisors should be focusing on other issues and drop this idea immediately.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cities don't keep more of the taxes than counties,
> they just have the ability to charge more taxes in
> the first place. They then can keep that extra
> income for city use. IF you go into Fairfax City,
> you pay a higher sales tax on purchases. The city
> then uses that money as they wish. Like to make
> all the old town area roads one way and then
> change them back to two way years later.
Precisely. One thing we don't need around here is another layer of taxation.
I live in Fairfax County because I want to live in a suburban environment. If I wanted to live in a city I would move to a city.
This whole idea is simply ridiculous. Fairfax County should stay a county, period. The Board of Supervisors should be focusing on other issues and drop this idea immediately.