New to this site and wanted feedback on concealed weapons permits in the county. I was thinking of applying for this but did some research and it looks like you cant really carry your firearm anywhere relevant with this permit. Is there really a point to this? Cant take your gun into a restaurant, park or even on the toll roads since its "airport property." Is this permit just to make transporting your gun easier? Also I read somewhere that its illegal here to pull your firearm to protect personal property. wtf. So if I'm sitting at a traffic light, and some guy tries to jack me...I cant pull the gun?

Anyone know the laws or rules for use of lethal force in VA?

Thanks

Jay Valenciano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> New to this site and wanted feedback on concealed
> weapons permits in the county. I was thinking of
> applying for this but did some research and it
> looks like you cant really carry your firearm
> anywhere relevant with this permit. Is there
> really a point to this? Cant take your gun into a
> restaurant, park or even on the toll roads since
> its "airport property." Is this permit just to
> make transporting your gun easier? Also I read
> somewhere that its illegal here to pull your
> firearm to protect personal property. wtf. So if
> I'm sitting at a traffic light, and some guy tries
> to jack me...I cant pull the gun?
>
> Anyone know the laws or rules for use of lethal
> force in VA?
>
> Thanks

There are plenty of places you can't conceal: places that serve alcohol, schools, courthouses, anywhere with a sign, etc. However, there are still plenty of places you CAN. So, it's up to you.

In the US, it's legal to transport your weapon in the trunk of the car ANYWHERE, as long as A.) It's unloaded and securely wrapped, and B.) It's legal to do so where you begin and end your trip. Now, the Dulles toll road might not allow for this since it's "private property" but I think you're still going to be OK there.(I could be very wrong, of course)

In VA, you can ONLY shoot someone in the defense of human life. The burden of proof lies on you to prove that you acted in self defense or defense of another. If you shoot someone who is carjacking you, they better have a weapon. If someone has shot your wife, and run away, you STILL can't shoot him because, technically, the threat is gone.

I'd recommend picking up a copy of the Virginia Gun Owner's Guide. It's about the best resource to answer any questions you might have.
http://www.amazon.com/Virginia-Gun-Owners-Guide-Forbidden/dp/0962195871

Capndik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jay Valenciano Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > New to this site and wanted feedback on
> concealed
> > weapons permits in the county. I was thinking
> of
> > applying for this but did some research and it
> > looks like you cant really carry your firearm
> > anywhere relevant with this permit. Is there
> > really a point to this? Cant take your gun into
> a
> > restaurant, park or even on the toll roads
> since
> > its "airport property." Is this permit just to
> > make transporting your gun easier? Also I read
> > somewhere that its illegal here to pull your
> > firearm to protect personal property. wtf. So
> if
> > I'm sitting at a traffic light, and some guy
> tries
> > to jack me...I cant pull the gun?
> >
> > Anyone know the laws or rules for use of lethal
> > force in VA?
> >
> > Thanks
>
> There are plenty of places you can't conceal:
> places that serve alcohol, schools, courthouses,
> anywhere with a sign, etc. However, there are
> still plenty of places you CAN. So, it's up to
> you.
>
> In the US, it's legal to transport your weapon in
> the trunk of the car ANYWHERE, as long as A.) It's
> unloaded and securely wrapped, and B.) It's legal
> to do so where you begin and end your trip. Now,
> the Dulles toll road might not allow for this
> since it's "private property" but I think you're
> still going to be OK there.(I could be very wrong,
> of course)
>
> In VA, you can ONLY shoot someone in the defense
> of human life. The burden of proof lies on you to
> prove that you acted in self defense or defense of
> another. If you shoot someone who is carjacking
> you, they better have a weapon. If someone has
> shot your wife, and run away, you STILL can't
> shoot him because, technically, the threat is
> gone.
>
> I'd recommend picking up a copy of the Virginia
> Gun Owner's Guide. It's about the best resource to
> answer any questions you might have.
> http://www.amazon.com/Virginia-Gun-Owners-Guide-Fo
> rbidden/dp/0962195871

A girl I know who sleeps around a lot told me if a guy owns a gun he usually has a dick.

I heard that if you conceal it in your butthole, then you can carry it anywhere and no one will be the wiser. Getting it out to use it could be a bitch though.

Unless you are in true fear of your life, no, you can't shoot teh guy trying to steal your car. Kinda sucks if you ask me, as the guy deserves it, but I don't write the rules.

Just got my permit a couple weeks ago, but have been carrying (open) for over a year now).

Training Courses....

Do yourself a favor.

http://www.piedmontnrainstructors.org/

Merritt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unless you are in true fear of your life, no, you
> can't shoot teh guy trying to steal your car.
> Kinda sucks if you ask me, as the guy deserves it,
> but I don't write the rules.
>
> Just got my permit a couple weeks ago, but have
> been carrying (open) for over a year now).


I'm no legal expert, but if someone rushes up to your car displaying what you think may or may not be a weapon and makes a valid threat to you, I think you stand a good chance of being acquited if you shot the guy.

I'm sure you'll either spend a night in jail or will at least spend a very long time discussing the circumstances with the police, but don't forget that you will be talking it over with POLICE, who often face the very same life threatening situations on the job. They will probably be very sympathetic to any properly licensed gun-carrying law-abiding citizen.

Obviously if some crack-head type walks up and just says "gimme yo car" without any weapon brandished, and you shot him, that would be manslaughter. On the other hand, if some crack-head type walked up to your car and said "gimme yo car" and you pointed a hand gun at him, he will most likely run away screaming about crazy white people and their guns. And if that causes him to reach for something, well, gee, sorry, he went for my gun and in the struggle the gun went off. oooops.

Jay Valenciano Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Cant take your gun into a
> restaurant, park or even on the toll roads since
> its "airport property."

18.2-287.01. Carrying weapon in air carrier airport terminal.

It shall be unlawful for any person to possess or transport into any air carrier airport terminal

not airport 'property'

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jay Valenciano Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Cant take your gun into a
> > restaurant, park or even on the toll roads
> since
> > its "airport property."
>
> 18.2-287.01. Carrying weapon in air carrier
> airport terminal.
>
> It shall be unlawful for any person to possess or
> transport into any air carrier airport terminal
>
> not airport 'property'


Not to mention, the toll road and the airport access road are two different things.

Didn't they sell the toll road to a spanish company a few years ago? or was that just the greenway portion of it?

You can carry concealed to tons of places. It's definitely worth getting your permit. But if you don't get it, you can still open carry without having any sort of permit (go to www.opencarry.org, it's a great site).

Don't expect everybody to like the fact that you have a CWP. Once I got my CWP a couple of neighbors no longer wanted me around their kids. They thought having the gun around their kids was unsafe. How silly.

Thurston Moore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Merritt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> I'm no legal expert, but if someone rushes up to
> your car displaying what you think may or may not
> be a weapon and makes a valid threat to you, I
> think you stand a good chance of being acquited if
> you shot the guy.

Not in Fairfax County, you'll probably get involuntary manslaughter and a civil suit from the family sueing your ass. However, in the middle of the Bronx they would probably cheer for you.

Oops...

Death Investigation in Burke
West Springfield Police District – Police responded to the home at 5422 Crossrail Drive in Burke on Tuesday, June 30 shortly after 5:30 p.m. for the report of an accidental shooting. Officers arrived, talked two people out of the home, and then entered and searched the home. Inside, they found the body of 23-year-old Powell Beck, with an apparent gunshot wound to the upper body.

Crime Scene and Criminal Investigation Bureau detectives responded to the scene.

Preliminary information indicates that this incident was domestic in nature and there was no threat to public safety. No charges have been placed at this time.

Kidding Who? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't expect everybody to like the fact that you
> have a CWP. Once I got my CWP a couple of
> neighbors no longer wanted me around their kids.
> They thought having the gun around their kids was
> unsafe. How silly.


In Virginia it's a CHP, not a CWP. Second, why advertise it? As far as I know the only people who know I have one are other friends I sometimes shoot with.

Kidding Who? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't expect everybody to like the fact that you
> have a CWP. Once I got my CWP a couple of
> neighbors no longer wanted me around their kids.
> They thought having the gun around their kids was
> unsafe. How silly.


Yep, since I started open carrying, some of my very liberal neighbors won't even speak to me anymore.

Once I started shooting my neighbors' kids, they seemed a lot more pleased to have me as a neighbor.

Quote

Once I started shooting my neighbors' kids, they seemed a lot more pleased to have me as a neighbor.

ok now that is funny.

Kidding Who? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't expect everybody to like the fact that you
> have a CWP. Once I got my CWP a couple of
> neighbors no longer wanted me around their kids.
> They thought having the gun around their kids was
> unsafe. How silly.

Typical sorry assed fairfax county ignorance. Those people will be the same who talk and drive and then kill someone in an accident

Capndik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jay Valenciano Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > New to this site and wanted feedback on
> concealed
> > weapons permits in the county. I was thinking
> of
> > applying for this but did some research and it
> > looks like you cant really carry your firearm
> > anywhere relevant with this permit. Is there
> > really a point to this? Cant take your gun into
> a
> > restaurant, park or even on the toll roads
> since
> > its "airport property." Is this permit just to
> > make transporting your gun easier? Also I read
> > somewhere that its illegal here to pull your
> > firearm to protect personal property. wtf. So
> if
> > I'm sitting at a traffic light, and some guy
> tries
> > to jack me...I cant pull the gun?
> >
> > Anyone know the laws or rules for use of lethal
> > force in VA?
> >
> > Thanks
>
> There are plenty of places you can't conceal:
> places that serve alcohol, schools, courthouses,
> anywhere with a sign, etc. However, there are
> still plenty of places you CAN. So, it's up to
> you.
>
> In the US, it's legal to transport your weapon in
> the trunk of the car ANYWHERE, as long as A.) It's
> unloaded and securely wrapped, and B.) It's legal
> to do so where you begin and end your trip. Now,
> the Dulles toll road might not allow for this
> since it's "private property" but I think you're
> still going to be OK there.(I could be very wrong,
> of course)
>
> In VA, you can ONLY shoot someone in the defense
> of human life. The burden of proof lies on you to
> prove that you acted in self defense or defense of
> another. If you shoot someone who is carjacking
> you, they better have a weapon. If someone has
> shot your wife, and run away, you STILL can't
> shoot him because, technically, the threat is
> gone.
>
> I'd recommend picking up a copy of the Virginia
> Gun Owner's Guide. It's about the best resource to
> answer any questions you might have.
> http://www.amazon.com/Virginia-Gun-Owners-Guide-Fo
> rbidden/dp/0962195871


The Dulles Toll Road is still a State Road, so all laws are applicable to it.

AbortionMaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once I started shooting my neighbors' kids, they
> seemed a lot more pleased to have me as a
> neighbor.


LOL.

Merritt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unless you are in true fear of your life, no, you
> can't shoot teh guy trying to steal your car.
> Kinda sucks if you ask me, as the guy deserves it,
> but I don't write the rules.
>
> Just got my permit a couple weeks ago, but have
> been carrying (open) for over a year now).


You need to differentiate between someone simply jacking a car from a parking lot, or your driveway (Which is a shootable offense in some areas), and someone actually jacking the car with you in it (Which is a justifiable situation wherein you may use lethal force).

One piece of advice: If someone breaks into your home, and you shoot them (Which serves the punk right), make certain that YOU call the Police right away. An Acquaintance of mine shot an intruder once, but they themselves were arrested for attempted murder since the suspect pressed charges first (In VA, you cannot "Cross Charges", meaning that if someone pressed charges upon you, you cannot press charges back until the original charges have been resolved).

I even know LEOs in PG County (YES, PG out of all places!), who were shocked at the outcome of the situation. Other LEOs that I know elsewhere even stated that the Homeowner would have never even felt cuffs on their wrists if it occurred in their locale.

The bottom line is that you need to always be the first to dial 9-11 immediately following any shooting of which you may be a part.

2nd amd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yep, since I started open carrying, some of my
> very liberal neighbors won't even speak to me
> anymore.

Once my friends got their CWP they started shooting each other. We video tape it for TV craziest videos. For some reason they air it. Wait a couple of years.

ThePackLeader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> You need to differentiate between someone simply
> jacking a car from a parking lot, or your driveway
> (Which is a shootable offense in some areas), and
> someone actually jacking the car with you in it
> (Which is a justifiable situation wherein you may
> use lethal force).


In Texas, maybe. You can't EVER use lethal force in the protection of property in VA. I shoot guys for stealing my car all the time, and I ALWAYS go to prison!

I'm sure the police will rush right over if there was an imminent threat.

Yeah no Castle Doctrine here like they have in other states, unfortunately.

Stan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sure the police will rush right over if there
> was an imminent threat.

Bro touched my car so I had to off his ass. Dead bro now! Nobody touches my car and gets away with it!

If you shot someone in Northern Va in self defense would you be convicted?

Are you kidding me? Of course, this is Fairfax County not LA. Fairfax County even has a law that if you discharge a gun at a residence with one or more persons present you automatically go to jail for 3 days, no questions asked.

Capndik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ThePackLeader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > You need to differentiate between someone
> simply
> > jacking a car from a parking lot, or your
> driveway
> > (Which is a shootable offense in some areas),
> and
> > someone actually jacking the car with you in it
> > (Which is a justifiable situation wherein you
> may
> > use lethal force).
>
>
> In Texas, maybe. You can't EVER use lethal force
> in the protection of property in VA. I shoot guys
> for stealing my car all the time, and I ALWAYS go
> to prison!


It isn't the protection of property, it is the protection of your life. If someone points a gun at you, you should have a right to shoot the person, because that is a direct, unquestionable threat to your life.

I mean, isn't that basically the exact same rules the police operate under, except they can also use lethal force if SOMEONE ELSE'S life is in jeopardy.

Cops can't shoot someone for stealing a TV, or a car, but the moment they feel that their life or someone else's life is in mortal danger, they can shoot.

Under this law, if you heard a noise in the basement, and went to investigate with your lawfully registered weapon, and encountered a burglar (on parole) who shot you in the arm, and you returned fire, fatally wounding him in the chest, you would automatically go to jail for 3 days, no questions asked?

Well, that's good to know.

§ 18.2-308.

(S.) For the purposes of understanding the law relating to the use of deadly and lethal force, the Department of State Police, in consultation with the Supreme Court on the development of the application for a concealed handgun permit under this section, shall include a reference to the Virginia Supreme Court website address or the Virginia Reports on the application.

Good luck finding that....

Lawman2 Wrote:

>Fairfax County even has a law that
> if you discharge a gun at a residence with one or
> more persons present you automatically go to jail
> for 3 days, no questions asked.


Do you have a cite for this?

It's not :FFX CO CODE:

Section 6-1-2. Hunting or discharge of firearms in certain places prohibited; exceptions.

which gives an exemption for:

(6) Discharge of any gun for the purpose of protecting any person from death or great bodily harm.

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you have a cite for this?
>
> It's not :FFX CO CODE:
>
> Section 6-1-2. Hunting or discharge of firearms
> in certain places prohibited; exceptions.
>
> which gives an exemption for:
>
> (6) Discharge of any gun for the purpose of
> protecting any person from death or great bodily
> harm.


I can't believe there is any place in this country where you are denied the very basic right of defending yourself from death or great bodily injury.

Isn't there some preamble or something in some thing that says something about "life, liberty and" well, you know, like somehow life is one of the foundational rights of this nation, you know?

Any place that would deny you that right is basically saying "you're a sitting duck. If your life is threatened, just lay down and take it like a law abiding charge of the state. We value our criminals more than we value law abiding citizens."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2009 12:07AM by Thurston Moore.

The sad fact of the matter is the way the laws are written criminals with guns do seem to have more rights than law abiding citizens with guns.

Checkers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The sad fact of the matter is the way the laws are
> written criminals with guns do seem to have more
> rights than law abiding citizens with guns.


if you think about it, who gives the government more revenue and power? The guy that obeys the laws, or the guy that breaks all the laws scaring the guy that obeys the laws into demanding the government "do something!"??