So this teacher decides to blow off safety procedures so now this ignorant bitch needs to be NAILED TO THE MOTHERFUCKING CROSS!!!

What is her name?

A parent 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So this teacher decides to blow off safety
> procedures so now this ignorant bitch needs to be
> NAILED TO THE MOTHERFUCKING CROSS!!!
>
> What is her name?

We have a criminal justice system and a civil justice system. Be patient.

Susan Sharaf

The nanny state liberals will be calling for no more chemistry experiments. Meanwhile, Woodson handled things the right way by going out and beating West Soringfield in football.

Most of these teachers blow off the safety rules about face shields, safety glasses, gloves and fire resistant aprons. It has been that way for decades. If you want to blame someone you can blame the school administration. They are responsible for enforcing the rules and that is never done.

I think we need to wait until an investigation is complete. If the teacher was not in full compliance with safety regulations she will probably be fired and sued to the point that she will lose everything as well as have her future wages garnished. I think prison time is not realistic in this case.

The whole situation was most likely sexual in nature.

The teacher will never teach again.

You can kill people with your car and get no jail why should an accident in the classroom dictate jail. Unless she was criminally negligent (unlikely) she cant be charged. The school's insurance will be out millions to the student that was severely burned. Its a lose-lose for everyone. Better safety procedures will be the result if everything works as it should.

Fairfax County is self insured. It comes out a account paid by your taxes.

DAJAX

I blame the pedofags based in Falls Church. Trying to silence a witness?

Ms sharaf did not cause this. She wore protective gear like she was supposed to because it was a teacher led demo not a student lab where students are required to wear gear. This was an extremely unfortunate catastrophe caused by a chemical mishap, not a teachers negligence

This exact same incident has happened several times in recent years in other U.S. high schools.

What happened to those teachers? Any expert researchers here that can find that out for us?

precedent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This exact same incident has happened several
> times in recent years in other U.S. high schools.
>
>
> What happened to those teachers? Any expert
> researchers here that can find that out for us?

There seem to be an endless number of these types of accidents. Will have to remember to tell my kid to stay in the back of the room when they do this "demonstration" at their school.


http://nypost.com/2014/01/02/students-injured-in-high-school-science-class-blast/

http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate/pollprev/sitevisit/Case1.pdf

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_26536584/three-denver-middle-school-students-injured-lab-mishap

http://triblive.com/home/2834482-74/safety-chemistry-lab-accidents-kaufman-incidents-langerman-students-teacher-based#axzz3qAIaFcGY

Obviously a lack of proper safety gear, although she was wearing goggles.
Attachments:

It won't help to sit at the back because in one of the above scenarios the flames went across the ceiling and down the back wall.

How about use of the hood?

FjGh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about use of the hood?

On the teacher or on the students?
Attachments:

This is not the first time Ms sharaf has screwed up but it hopefully be the last. She is just not a good teacher.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2015 04:39AM by chuckhoffmann.

recent grad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is not the first time Ms sharaf has screwed
> up but it hopefully be the last. She is just not a
> good teacher.

But that's what you get in a public school. She's adequate for teaching future McDonald's and Wal-Mart employees. It's not like any of them are ever going to use the information anyhow.

Does the school system provide funding for the necessary safety equipment, or do teachers have to pay for it themselves out of low teacher salaries?

If safety equipment isn't available, the course should be canceled.

We don't know the whole story here yet. We have a court system which will evaluate concrete evidence, and decide where the blame lies.

Meanwhile, we can all pray for the students and teacher involved, and hope they will fully recover.

Mercy is human, vindictiveness is subhuman.

She was doing the experiment on the counter and not under the hood. She is to blame for burning my best friends sister. I hate her.

I fondly remember the time Fraulein Heinberg spilled chemicals in that 1933 science class which helped launch my control of the education system!

So who is the teacher? What does she look like?

They made good money 70,000 LOL i would love to earn that amount for working 990 hours a year


concerned grandparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does the school system provide funding for the
> necessary safety equipment, or do teachers have to
> pay for it themselves out of low teacher
> salaries?
>
> If safety equipment isn't available, the course
> should be canceled.
>
> We don't know the whole story here yet. We have a
> court system which will evaluate concrete
> evidence, and decide where the blame lies.
>
> Meanwhile, we can all pray for the students and
> teacher involved, and hope they will fully
> recover.
>
> Mercy is human, vindictiveness is subhuman.

Anyone notice the OP can't spell "chemistry"? She (gotta be a "she") has the nerve to complain about one of her betters?

She burned the fuck out of 2 kids and seared a couple others and she is white. You know what happens next.

Hey shut up, she is an amazing teacher a mistake was made by a student shut up Ok I was in that class and I know she is a great teacher, she's hurt have some respect

Common sense says don't add fuel to burning fire. Flames just love to follow vapor trails back to the source.

Bottom Line Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> She burned the fuck out of 2 kids and seared a
> couple others and she is white. You know what
> happens next.

What happens next is you scratch your gut, crack open another beer, and retire to the basement.

As a former student at Woodson you really need to think about what you are saying. You are being a typical Woodson parent and blaming the teacher for everything wrong. Do you ever look at your self and realize that you can be prone to error? You are saying that you want this teacher to be "NAILED TO A FUCKING CROSS"

You can be sure that the system will look at why this happened, and it's more than adding substance A to substance B. They pay department chairs to approve lesson plans, document teacher training, and ensure procedures are followed.

I don't know how many layers of supervision exist between the principal and the teacher, but those are the people whose records of training her will be scrutinized. Sometimes in these cases the supervisors will "backdate" documentation that previously did not exist to cover their own behinds.

It will interesting to see how this turns out once the injured parties subpoena all the records.

I think that was a fucking troll and you took the bait

As a former FCPS Dept. Chair, I can tell you that the stipend for that is usually about $800-$3,500 per year. At no time did I ever approve lesson plans and we only documented training that we conducted in our building a few times a year; teachers log onto FCPS to view and document training modules that they complete on their own. Ensuring procedures, etc. is a school-wide issue that administration handles.

There is general county-wide training that is only held for a few hours twice a year. In addition, each subject matter has additional professional development that is offered but not usually required. In my field, there were teachers making subjective grade decisions throughout the year without ever getting trained on how to use the grading rubrics involved - not the best situation, obviously.

Department chairs are teachers with an extra planning period to organize/conduct department business. They are not supervisors.

No way in HELL she teaches my kids. Hopefully her teaching days are over.

concerned grandparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does the school system provide funding for the
> necessary safety equipment, or do teachers have to
> pay for it themselves out of low teacher
> salaries?...


Probably not.

My wife drove a bus for a few months about 15 years ago. Where she parked her bus lacked so much as a single trash can. School buses generate lots of trash. She asked what to do with it. They told her to take it home and put it in our house trash can.

Can you imagine? With the millions they waste they couldn't afford a trash can? Low level employees are supposed to put bags of stinking trash in their personal vehicles and take it home with them!!

Should we grant 60 minutes or CNN the interview for the poor over-worked anonymous chemistry teacher who has to deal with all the unruly students?

A Mom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No way in HELL she teaches my kids. Hopefully her
> teaching days are over.


Calm down, helicopter mom...your snowflakes will be just fine...

Alcohol is some dangerous stuff! I used to single-hand a classic wooden ketch on very long voyages (I have sailed around the world).

Anyway, one cold night in the North Atlantic, more than 1000 miles from land, I wanted a hot cuppa joe. I pumped up the alcohol stove and lit it. A seal went bad and sprayed burning alcohol all over the galley, lighting the porthole curtains and a seat cushion.

The only good part about alcohol fires (unlike petroleum fires) is that they can be extinguished with water, something I had PLENTY of all around me. Fortunately I was able to put the fire out before it was too late. No trace of me would have ever been found if I hadn't.

I read that her hair and clothes caught fire. She went running down the hallway like a madman and a security guard put it out. Pretty dumb teacher. Even as kids in the 1970's we were always taught to Stop, Drop and Roll.

This would make a funny skit if they did a recreation on SNL.

Sharaf: sounds Isis-ish. After the infidels' babies? Lone-Wolf accident? This one is ripe with possibilities and will be with us for months...now, get to work.

Sigmund Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read that her hair and clothes caught fire. She
> went running down the hallway like a madman and a
> security guard put it out. Pretty dumb teacher.
> Even as kids in the 1970's we were always taught
> to Stop, Drop and Roll.
>
> This would make a funny skit if they did a
> recreation on SNL.


If she's got a nice rack, I'd have patted out the fire on her shirt.

old man of the sea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A seal went bad and sprayed burning alcohol all over
> the galley, lighting the porthole curtains and a
> seat cushion.

I hate it when seals cross over to the dark side. They are pretty funny creatures normally.

Dept. Chairs in FCPS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a former FCPS Dept. Chair, I can tell you that
> the stipend for that is usually about $800-$3,500
> per year. At no time did I ever approve lesson
> plans and we only documented training that we
> conducted in our building a few times a year;
> teachers log onto FCPS to view and document
> training modules that they complete on their own.
> Ensuring procedures, etc. is a school-wide issue
> that administration handles.
>
> There is general county-wide training that is only
> held for a few hours twice a year. In addition,
> each subject matter has additional professional
> development that is offered but not usually
> required. In my field, there were teachers making
> subjective grade decisions throughout the year
> without ever getting trained on how to use the
> grading rubrics involved - not the best situation,
> obviously.

You can get away with not doing your job until something goes horribly wrong, like this. Then you learn the risk you took for that extra $3500. Followed by learning all about interrogatories and depositions, along with how the union treats "supervisors." Good luck.

Union rep, if life is so hard in that job, then just quit. No one has a gun to your head. You get a good salary for only working 9 months a year. Maybe instead of blaming the students you should be expressing a speedy recovery for those students that were injured. Poor tasteless timing, blaming students when several are still hospitalized.

Why is everyone being hateful. This was an awful accident no one can be blamed i fucking hate any wine who blames ms sharaf she is super intelligent, sweet and so young. Better than any of you hateful mom whores, if you have a problem with her teaching you have a problem with me

Fuck everyone who is Complaing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is everyone being hateful. This was an awful
> accident no one can be blamed i fucking hate any
> wine who blames ms sharaf she is super
> intelligent, sweet and so young. Better than any
> of you hateful mom whores, if you have a problem
> with her teaching you have a problem with me


We pay taxes and send our kids to school to get them educated not to have some incompetent teacher burn the fuck out of them. This teacher deserves to be fired and sued to the point that she loses everything she has and has her future wages garnished. I don't know about prison but maybe 6 months in jail would be good.

The racket known as "education" requires teachers to have a degree in "education", not their subject matter. So, when you want your children taught chemistry, maybe have an actual chemist teach it, not some "education" major.

I'm Michelle Takaoka and I approved this politiical message.

When I am elected to Fairfax County School Board we will follow all safety procedures and will only allow safe sex in the classroom.

http://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2015/10/nsta-chemistry-accident-va-high-school-is-reminder-about-classroom-safety/

National Science Teachers Association-a hood should be used with this type of experiment, as well as safety goggles, an apron, gloves, etc. This is obvious to anybody who has dealt with chemicals and hazardous substances. Basic common sense.

Use the Hood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2015/10/nsta-chemis
> try-accident-va-high-school-is-reminder-about-clas
> sroom-safety/
>
> National Science Teachers Association-a hood
> should be used with this type of experiment, as
> well as safety goggles, an apron, gloves, etc.
> This is obvious to anybody who has dealt with
> chemicals and hazardous substances. Basic common
> sense.


Common sense is rare among teachers and doctors.

FCPS needs to release the experiment that was done. (Or demo....or whatever the non-chemist was trying to do while posing as a scientist.)

It is too soon to make this political.

If Matt Williams was the principal, the teacher would be back in class next week.

ngr41 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Matt Williams was the principal, the teacher
> would be back in class next week.


She will be promoted, sent to Gatehouse, given a great big raise, and put in charge of something. Probably safety or science related.

If I were the parent of one of the injured children I would be pissed.

Use the Hood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2015/10/nsta-chemis
> try-accident-va-high-school-is-reminder-about-clas
> sroom-safety/
>
> National Science Teachers Association-a hood
> should be used with this type of experiment, as
> well as safety goggles, an apron, gloves, etc.
> This is obvious to anybody who has dealt with
> chemicals and hazardous substances. Basic common
> sense.

"Should" means nothing if no one is telling the teachers to do it.

Maybe this incident will get the department chairs to start doing their jobs.

Responsible Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Use the Hood Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> http://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2015/10/nsta-chemis
>
> >
> try-accident-va-high-school-is-reminder-about-clas
>
> > sroom-safety/
> >
> > National Science Teachers Association-a hood
> > should be used with this type of experiment, as
> > well as safety goggles, an apron, gloves, etc.
> > This is obvious to anybody who has dealt with
> > chemicals and hazardous substances. Basic
> common
> > sense.
>
> "Should" means nothing if no one is telling the
> teachers to do it.
>
> Maybe this incident will get the department chairs
> to start doing their jobs.


They should have learned this in Chemistry class.

If Susan Sharaf ever teaches anything in Fairfax county there will be a hell of a protest. We trusted her with our children and she burned them like they were hot dogs on a grill.

nra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is too soon to make this political.

Really?

Here we go..... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ngr41 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If Matt Williams was the principal, the teacher
> > would be back in class next week.
>
>
> She will be promoted, sent to Gatehouse, given a
> great big raise, and put in charge of something.
> Probably safety or science related.
>

The sad part is that you and many other posters here actually believe this. When itr doesn't happen you will quickly forget and move on to your next conspiracy theory.

It is one thing to have this happen when you are following proper and prudent protocols like using the hood, etc. It is another to have this happen when you are handling these things with complete disregard for common and accepted safety practices.

These children will be scarred for life in more ways than one.

My daughter developed a very bad/odd rash when the class used formaldehyde and the FCPS teacher didn't have any gloves for the students.

Contact the teacher and ask he WTF?


sasharaf@fcps.edu

FUCK YOU IF YOU WANT A TEACHER IN JAIL. You deserve to burn in hell I will fight for teachers rights it's no ones fault but the absolute fucks of white patents in fairfax fuck you rich bastards who understand nothing

Something was wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My daughter developed a very bad/odd rash when the
> class used formaldehyde and the FCPS teacher
> didn't have any gloves for the students.


Volatile organics should be handled under a fume hood. It is generally bad to breath them. Formaldehyde especially so. Surprising anyone would do this.

Handling fuels around open flame requires caution. You don't need a special education to understand this. You don't pour gas on a burning fire for exactly the same reason. You don't smoke and fuel your vehicle right?

"You don't smoke and fuel your vehicle right?"

You would be surprised what goes on at the gas stations.........

Fuck u Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FUCK YOU IF YOU WANT A TEACHER IN JAIL. You
> deserve to burn in hell I will fight for teachers
> rights it's no ones fault but the absolute fucks
> of white patents in fairfax fuck you rich bastards
> who understand nothing


So parents are supposed to be patient and tolerant and understanding about basic proper procedure probably not being followed when their child will be permanently scarred for life? It's the parents' problem?

ITS NOT HARD TO BE PATIENT AND TOLERANT YOU DAMN RETARD. Just chill and be ok with it. Kids and a young teacher are hurt instead of taking about prosecuting someone (which you parents always and only do) how about you help out you needy dumb people

Procedure was followed properly. Your kids are just fucking stupid

She will NOT be in tomorrow. She will be getting a Lawyer.

Why the hell would she need a lawyer she is innocent of any crime I hate u if you want to take this to court what the fuck is wrong with you

KGULu
Attachments:

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2015 04:43AM by chuckhoffmann.

Just so we're clear on one thing: This is the end of anything even remotely cool ever happening in science in FCPS. Remember how back in the 1980s middle school shop had table saws and welding equipment and drill presses, and kids actually learned to use machines and had a good time. Yeah, a couple kids got hurt. Now kids in middle school "shop" work on computers and watch videos. Well add chemistry to the list of classes that used to be kind of cool and now are going to suck big time.

Maybe the families and the school system can settle out of court for several million dollars. Each.

7776765765765 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just so we're clear on one thing: This is the end
> of anything even remotely cool ever happening in
> science in FCPS. Remember how back in the 1980s
> middle school shop had table saws and welding
> equipment and drill presses, and kids actually
> learned to use machines and had a good time.
> Yeah, a couple kids got hurt. Now kids in middle
> school "shop" work on computers and watch videos.
> Well add chemistry to the list of classes that
> used to be kind of cool and now are going to suck
> big time.

That is so true. And the very people who complain about nanny state liberals are leading the charge now.

7776765765765 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just so we're clear on one thing: This is the end
> of anything even remotely cool ever happening in
> science in FCPS. Remember how back in the 1980s
> middle school shop had table saws and welding
> equipment and drill presses, and kids actually
> learned to use machines and had a good time.
> Yeah, a couple kids got hurt. Now kids in middle
> school "shop" work on computers and watch videos.
> Well add chemistry to the list of classes that
> used to be kind of cool and now are going to suck
> big time.

You are exactly right. Memorandum came out over the weekend that was emailed to all FCPS Science Teachers that basically said effective immediately science teachers are to discontinue all classroom/lab experiments that are chemical in a nature. We will be told when we can resume these type of experiments. What this means is your children will no longer get any hands on experience in classess such as Chemistry and teacher led experiments will no be permitted in a FCPS school for a long time. Students will be able to view these experiments through other means, such as Educational Film Services DVDs or You Tube.

All teachers are praying for a speedy recovery for the teacher and students injured in the horrific accident!

Fuck everyone who is Complaing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why is everyone being hateful. This was an awful
> accident no one can be blamed i fucking hate any
> wine who blames ms sharaf she is super
> intelligent, sweet and so young. Better than any
> of you hateful mom whores, if you have a problem
> with her teaching you have a problem with me


Can I just have a problem with your absolutely atrocious (lack of) writing skills? Would that be okay? (Good God, fire ALL the teachers if this is how they teach!)

Illegal possesion of fire arms.

There are far more kids injured (even killed) playing competitive sports at the schools every year. No one is banning football or track or any other type of sport - not that they should!.

This was a freak accident that has never happened in a Fairfax County chem lab before. I think it would be a HUGE mistake for the schools to abolish hands on lab experiments and demonstrations over this incident. But that's just me.

Figure out what the hell happened and figure it out quickly. Then get back to business. This is just a suggestion.

American Chemical Society About ACS Governance Committees Committee on Chemical Safety Safety Alert Rainbow Demonstration

Safety Alert Rainbow Demonstration
On January 2, 2014, a demonstration known as the “Rainbow” experiment using a flammable solvent on an open bench resulted in a tragic incident with two high school students from New York being burned. In early December 2013 the U.S. Chemical Safety and Investigation Board (CSB) released a video that featured Calais Weber, a burn victim of a similar demonstration in 2006 (www.csb.gov/videos/after-the-rainbow). The video emphasized that the incident was preventable – safer practices were not followed.

The “Rainbow” demonstration performed on an open bench using a flammable solvent is a high risk operation. When this “Rainbow” is carried out on an open bench, the conditions for a flash fire or deflagration are easily met – a fuel, oxygen, and a source of ignition. Highly flammable solvents, such as methanol, can produce heavier-than-air vapors that move across surfaces and down toward the floor where they spread undetected among unsuspecting viewers of the demonstration. A flame, spark, or even very hot surfaces can ignite the vapors resulting in a sudden flash fire or worse if a nearby open container of solvent is located. Laboratory operations involving flammable solvents should be carried out in a properly functioning chemical hood – not on an open bench. Even carrying out this demonstration in a chemical hood poses risks if fuel sources are not controlled, but doing this in a hood is surely safer than an open bench. Teachers, having an inadequate understanding of the hazards and risks presented by this demonstration, put themselves and their students at unnecessary risk during the conduct of this demonstration.

We chemists all love chemistry and we know the great satisfaction and reward that chemistry has provided to us and we want to share it with our younger generation. Many of us have seen the joy of students with great demonstrations that thrill and grab their interests in chemistry and science. However, this demonstration presents a conundrum for teachers – it offers the “wow” factor that interests and delights students, but this demonstration carries with it, a “whoa” factor of very significant risk to students and teachers. The “whoa” factor clearly outweighs the “wow” factor for this demonstration.

We – the American Chemical Society (ACS) Committee on Chemical Safety – need your help in getting a message out to high school science teachers and university teachers to prevent further injuries from this Rainbow Demonstration. The ACS alone simply cannot reach all of our nation’s science teachers without your help. We are asking you to pass on the following message to your local science-chemistry teachers in high schools or colleges – please do not assume that they have gotten this message:

Safety Alert – Stop Using the Rainbow Demonstration
The American Chemical Society Committee on Chemical Safety recommends that the “Rainbow” demonstration on open benches involving the use of flammable solvents such as methanol be discontinued immediately. When carried out on open benches (outside of a chemical hood) these demonstrations present an unacceptable risk of flash fires and deflagrations that can cause serious injuries to students and teachers. On an open bench, invisible flammable vapors can flow across and off of the bench to the floor where they can be ignited by a flame, a spark (even static electricity), or even a hot surface. Even carrying out this demonstration in a hood poses risks if solvents are not adequately controlled. If you are considering this “Rainbow” demonstration or have used it in the past, we urge you to stop using this demonstration. There are alternatives available that demonstrate the same rainbow colors but don’t use flammable solvents on an open bench. These alternate demonstrations involve soaking wooden splints in salt solutions and then placing the splints in a Bunsen burner to observe the salt’s characteristic color.


Rainbow Demonstration Alternatives

Flame Tests without Nichrome Wire
New Zealand Association of Science Educators, Science Teacher 2011, Number 126, p. 45
University of Manitoba, Flame Tests, Atomic Spectra & Applications Activity, C12-2-02&03
The Flame Test Student Work Sheet
ACS Committee on Chemical Safety New and Improved Flame Test Procedure

I just need to know one thing, is Susan Sharaf fuckable or not?

We need to know Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just need to know one thing, is Susan Sharaf
> fuckable or not?

Yes in a pinch.

Ms Sharaf is totally traumatized by this unfortunate situation. As we continue to protect our community and teachers, it is important to note the cutting of school supply funding by the school board which contribute to the incident. There are many victims here.

Union Rep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ms Sharaf is totally traumatized by this
> unfortunate situation. As we continue to protect
> our community and teachers, it is important to
> note the cutting of school supply funding by the
> school board which contribute to the incident.
> There are many victims here.

Probably not wise to use an excuse like that. If she couldn't perform the experiment safely using the supplies that she had, she should not have attempted to perform the experiment. I don't know what wrong here but I think it's wrong to speculate that this teacher would risk doing an experiment without the proper supplies. This tragedy was not expected - at all. Something happened.

a 5th grader can do this lab

"chemestry"...

^

The above poster is a product of FCPS smh

Union Rep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ms Sharaf is totally traumatized by this
> unfortunate situation. As we continue to protect
> our community and teachers, it is important to
> note the cutting of school supply funding by the
> school board which contribute to the incident.
> There are many victims here.


^^^ Department chair attempting to shift blame.

perspective people Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are far more kids injured (even killed)
> playing competitive sports at the schools every
> year. No one is banning football or track or any
> other type of sport - not that they should!.
>
> This was a freak accident that has never happened
> in a Fairfax County chem lab before. I think it
> would be a HUGE mistake for the schools to abolish
> hands on lab experiments and demonstrations over
> this incident. But that's just me.
>
> Figure out what the hell happened and figure it
> out quickly. Then get back to business. This is
> just a suggestion.


There is nothing "freaK" about this "accident". The cause of the damage is the fact that an education major, NOT a chemist, posed as a scientist trying to teach science.

Simple application of safety procedures, known by actual scientists, would have prevented any damage to property and flesh.

Bottom line, an incompetent person was teaching this class. It is not entirely her fault she is incompetent; because the schools don't require her to be competent in a specialized subject matter.

Oh, but she can teach..........allegedly. It's crystal clear she can't do science, though.

­



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/2015 04:47AM by chuckhoffmann.

chuckhoffmann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> v6V6Y Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bottom line, an incompetent person was teaching
> > this class. It is not entirely her fault she
> is
> > incompetent; because the schools don't require
> her
> > to be competent in a specialized subject matter.
>
>
> This was my first impression, but Anna Poole, the
> teacher at New York's Beacon High School who
> caused an almost identical incident when
> conducting the exact same demonstration
> on January 2, 2014, did have a master's
> degree in chemistry.
>
> Given her qualifications, you'd think she would be
> well aware of the dangers of having a large amount
> of methyl alcohol near an open flame, and yet she
> still put a gallon jug of the
> shit on the demonstration bench during the
> demonstration.
>
> I don't think that you should treat kids like they
> were made of glass, and I think that
> demonstrations absolutely should be an integral
> part of any laboratory science class. However, a
> literal room full of smart people over at the
> American Chemical Society, with a lot more
> experience and expertise than I have, have said
> that the "rainbow demonstration" should not be
> done on an open bench and have urged its
> discontinuation.*
>
> Someone posted a link to a video of a fifth grader
> doing this demonstration, and I think this points
> up the problem; because it's so simple, people
> think it's perfectly safe, when it's actually
> quite dangerous if you fail to scrupulously follow
> proper safety procedures.
>
> *They did seem to indicate that it could be done
> with a fume hood, but equipping all of FCPS's
> secondary schools with portable fume hoods would
> be a significant expense for a school system
> looking at a $100 million shortfall.


Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It's refreshing to see.

I believe your post further supports my point. I AM a chemist. I have a Ph.D. However, even as an undergrad, I knew, as all my colleagues knew - and know - volatile solvents are not to be used outside of a fume hood.

They are especially not to be used outside of a hood where there is an open flame.

Just as the ACS says. Just as any scientist KNOWS.

This teacher is no scientist yet the schools believe her competent to teach science because she knows about "education", not so much about her subject matter (obviously). Knowing about a subject in able to teach that subject is near irrelevant in "education"

And, this is the result. Never mind the fact that she - and other "competent" teachers - are in charge of our children's education.

Chemistry and chemicals are not to be feared; they ARE to be respected...if one wants to remain healthy. That's one of the first things a chemist is taught...a chemist who is taught by actual chemists, to be clear.

v6V6Y Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> perspective people Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are far more kids injured (even killed)
> > playing competitive sports at the schools every
> > year. No one is banning football or track or
> any
> > other type of sport - not that they should!.
> >
> > This was a freak accident that has never
> happened
> > in a Fairfax County chem lab before. I think
> it
> > would be a HUGE mistake for the schools to
> abolish
> > hands on lab experiments and demonstrations
> over
> > this incident. But that's just me.
> >
> > Figure out what the hell happened and figure it
> > out quickly. Then get back to business. This
> is
> > just a suggestion.
>
>
> There is nothing "freaK" about this "accident".
> The cause of the damage is the fact that an
> education major, NOT a chemist, posed as a
> scientist trying to teach science.
>
> Simple application of safety procedures, known by
> actual scientists, would have prevented any damage
> to property and flesh.
>
> Bottom line, an incompetent person was teaching
> this class. It is not entirely her fault she is
> incompetent; because the schools don't require her
> to be competent in a specialized subject matter.
>
>
> Oh, but she can teach..........allegedly. It's
> crystal clear she can't do science, though.

Uh, no. She was probably (at the very least) a Chemistry major who also took education classes/student taught. She likely had more credentials than that.

Wow... Some of you people really would have freaked back when we had gas outlets for Bunsen burners on all of the lab tables in 6th grade. We'd take the dissection frogs and fill their gut with gas... hit the sparker while squeezing their belly... WHOOSH! Fire-breathing frogs!

uh nooooo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> v6V6Y Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > perspective people Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > There are far more kids injured (even killed)
> > > playing competitive sports at the schools
> every
> > > year. No one is banning football or track or
> > any
> > > other type of sport - not that they should!.
> > >
> > > This was a freak accident that has never
> > happened
> > > in a Fairfax County chem lab before. I think
> > it
> > > would be a HUGE mistake for the schools to
> > abolish
> > > hands on lab experiments and demonstrations
> > over
> > > this incident. But that's just me.
> > >
> > > Figure out what the hell happened and figure
> it
> > > out quickly. Then get back to business.
> This
> > is
> > > just a suggestion.
> >
> >
> > There is nothing "freaK" about this "accident".
>
> > The cause of the damage is the fact that an
> > education major, NOT a chemist, posed as a
> > scientist trying to teach science.
> >
> > Simple application of safety procedures, known
> by
> > actual scientists, would have prevented any
> damage
> > to property and flesh.
> >
> > Bottom line, an incompetent person was teaching
> > this class. It is not entirely her fault she
> is
> > incompetent; because the schools don't require
> her
> > to be competent in a specialized subject matter.
>
> >
> >
> > Oh, but she can teach..........allegedly. It's
> > crystal clear she can't do science, though.
>
> Uh, no. She was probably (at the very least) a
> Chemistry major who also took education
> classes/student taught. She likely had more
> credentials than that.


Doubtful, but possible. But, as the Anna Poole incident indicates, there are a few bad eggs out there as chemists.

First rule - safety. Last rule - safety.

It's just the way it is.

OSHA would have anyone's hide with what the Woodson teacher (and Poole) did.

9Vwup Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chuckhoffmann Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > v6V6Y Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Bottom line, an incompetent person was
> teaching
> > > this class. It is not entirely her fault she
> > is
> > > incompetent; because the schools don't
> require
> > her
> > > to be competent in a specialized subject
> matter.
> >
> >
> > This was my first impression, but Anna Poole,
> the
> > teacher at New York's Beacon High School who
> > caused an almost identical incident when
> > conducting the exact same
> demonstration
> > on January 2, 2014, did have a
> master's
> > degree in chemistry.
> >
> > Given her qualifications, you'd think she would
> be
> > well aware of the dangers of having a large
> amount
> > of methyl alcohol near an open flame, and yet
> she
> > still put a gallon jug of the
> > shit on the demonstration bench during the
> > demonstration.
> >
> > I don't think that you should treat kids like
> they
> > were made of glass, and I think that
> > demonstrations absolutely should be an integral
> > part of any laboratory science class. However,
> a
> > literal room full of smart people over at the
> > American Chemical Society, with a lot more
> > experience and expertise than I have, have said
> > that the "rainbow demonstration" should not be
> > done on an open bench and have urged its
> > discontinuation.*
> >
> > Someone posted a link to a video of a fifth
> grader
> > doing this demonstration, and I think this
> points
> > up the problem; because it's so simple, people
> > think it's perfectly safe, when it's actually
> > quite dangerous if you fail to scrupulously
> follow
> > proper safety procedures.
> >
> > *They did seem to indicate that it could be
> done
> > with a fume hood, but equipping all of FCPS's
> > secondary schools with portable fume hoods
> would
> > be a significant expense for a school system
> > looking at a $100 million shortfall.
>
>
> Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It's
> refreshing to see.
>
> I believe your post further supports my point. I
> AM a chemist. I have a Ph.D. However, even as an
> undergrad, I knew, as all my colleagues knew - and
> know - volatile solvents are not to be used
> outside of a fume hood.
>
> They are especially not to be used outside of a
> hood where there is an open flame.
>
> Just as the ACS says. Just as any scientist
> KNOWS.
>
> This teacher is no scientist yet the schools
> believe her competent to teach science because she
> knows about "education", not so much about her
> subject matter (obviously). Knowing about a
> subject in able to teach that subject is near
> irrelevant in "education"
>
> And, this is the result. Never mind the fact that
> she - and other "competent" teachers - are in
> charge of our children's education.
>
> Chemistry and chemicals are not to be feared; they
> ARE to be respected...if one wants to remain
> healthy. That's one of the first things a chemist
> is taught...a chemist who is taught by actual
> chemists, to be clear.

And this experiment has been performed in how many FCPS chem classrooms over the course of how many years...without incident? For a science minded person you sure do make some generalizations.

I have a 10th grader who is taking Chemistry myself. I do truly feel for the parents and kids involved in this tragic situation. I do not think that this means that ALL FCPS Chem teachers are incompetent or that Chemistry class unsafe. Let's wait until the facts about what actually happened/why it happened are out.

General Ize? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 9Vwup Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > chuckhoffmann Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > v6V6Y Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Bottom line, an incompetent person was
> > teaching
> > > > this class. It is not entirely her fault
> she
> > > is
> > > > incompetent; because the schools don't
> > require
> > > her
> > > > to be competent in a specialized subject
> > matter.
> > >
> > >
> > > This was my first impression, but Anna Poole,
> > the
> > > teacher at New York's Beacon High School who
> > > caused an almost identical incident when
> > > conducting the exact same
> > demonstration
> > > on January 2, 2014, did have a
> > master's
> > > degree in chemistry.
> > >
> > > Given her qualifications, you'd think she
> would
> > be
> > > well aware of the dangers of having a large
> > amount
> > > of methyl alcohol near an open flame, and yet
> > she
> > > still put a gallon jug of
> the
> > > shit on the demonstration bench during the
> > > demonstration.
> > >
> > > I don't think that you should treat kids like
> > they
> > > were made of glass, and I think that
> > > demonstrations absolutely should be an
> integral
> > > part of any laboratory science class.
> However,
> > a
> > > literal room full of smart people over at the
> > > American Chemical Society, with a lot more
> > > experience and expertise than I have, have
> said
> > > that the "rainbow demonstration" should not
> be
> > > done on an open bench and have urged its
> > > discontinuation.*
> > >
> > > Someone posted a link to a video of a fifth
> > grader
> > > doing this demonstration, and I think this
> > points
> > > up the problem; because it's so simple,
> people
> > > think it's perfectly safe, when it's actually
> > > quite dangerous if you fail to scrupulously
> > follow
> > > proper safety procedures.
> > >
> > > *They did seem to indicate that it could be
> > done
> > > with a fume hood, but equipping all of FCPS's
> > > secondary schools with portable fume hoods
> > would
> > > be a significant expense for a school system
> > > looking at a $100 million shortfall.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It's
> > refreshing to see.
> >
> > I believe your post further supports my point.
> I
> > AM a chemist. I have a Ph.D. However, even as
> an
> > undergrad, I knew, as all my colleagues knew -
> and
> > know - volatile solvents are not to be used
> > outside of a fume hood.
> >
> > They are especially not to be used outside of a
> > hood where there is an open flame.
> >
> > Just as the ACS says. Just as any scientist
> > KNOWS.
> >
> > This teacher is no scientist yet the schools
> > believe her competent to teach science because
> she
> > knows about "education", not so much about her
> > subject matter (obviously). Knowing about a
> > subject in able to teach that subject is near
> > irrelevant in "education"
> >
> > And, this is the result. Never mind the fact
> that
> > she - and other "competent" teachers - are in
> > charge of our children's education.
> >
> > Chemistry and chemicals are not to be feared;
> they
> > ARE to be respected...if one wants to remain
> > healthy. That's one of the first things a
> chemist
> > is taught...a chemist who is taught by actual
> > chemists, to be clear.
>
> And this experiment has been performed in how many
> FCPS chem classrooms over the course of how many
> years...without incident? For a science minded
> person you sure do make some generalizations.
>
> I have a 10th grader who is taking Chemistry
> myself. I do truly feel for the parents and kids
> involved in this tragic situation. I do not think
> that this means that ALL FCPS Chem teachers are
> incompetent or that Chemistry class unsafe. Let's
> wait until the facts about what actually
> happened/why it happened are out.


It appears the facts are that she used methanol outside of a fume hood and purposely in the presence of an open flame. Prima facie, incompetent in chemistry.

The facts show that this teacher is clearly incompetent. If she is allowed to keep her job then multiple lawsuits can move forward even if your child was not one of the ones that were physically harmed by this woman's ignorance and incompetence.

Do Fairfax HS chemistry rooms even have vent hoods?

OK, I'm not a chemist but I was a chemistry major in college. I think it is unrealistic to expect that all chemistry teachers in all public schools are required to be chemistry majors. A science or education major that UNDERSTANDS and FOLLOWS the curriculum should be all that is required.

This was an unfortunate incident but I think the prudent thing to do is investigate what happened and make necessary changes. No need to shut down all open flames - that is an over-reaction.