I hate this. I do not enjoy any aspect of car shopping. I need to buy a new car and have decided on a Toyota. Which dealers should I hit first and which should I avoid. I've test driven the car I want at a dealer in another state and have tried dealing via the internet and phone. It isn't working. I'm getting what appears to be the same fixed price at most of the dealers.

Oral surgery is more enjoyable than dealing with car sales people.

How are your bowels first off?

Made of steel.

You can try Costco - they have preset rates. Consumerreports is a good source of pricing info - know the retail and wholesale on a car with specific options. If you know exactly what you want to pay AND have financing already in place. Contact the manager, tell him you hate the process and will only deal with him. Have list of the 3 or 4 dealerships closest and go to next in line if you get any crap.

Buying a car shouldn't be intimidating and is actually pretty easy if you leave your emotions out of it and use your brains.

The key is to be smarter than the salesman which really isn't that difficult.

(1) Do your homework
(2) Don't give the impression you cannot live without this car you have picked out. The salesman can sense this and you are doomed.
(3) Don't be afraid to walk away. There are millions of cars to pick from.
(4) When you negotiate a price, tell them you are paying cash (even if you aren't). Then when you have a price nailed down tell them you changed your mind and decided to finance. Make them stick to their offer.
(5) Never EVER fall for the "Well how much were you planning to spend on a monthly car payment?" nonsense. It's a trap.
(6) Don't expect honesty from the salesman. They don't care about you, only your money.

97x I agree with your post and have done it all.

I know the prices. The msrp is a joke and the published "invoice" price I view skeptically. I've walked out of two dealers. I can live without the car and have contacted several dealers over the last month. I am paying cash but they don't care about that at all - at least that's what they say. I know the total I want to pay for the car. I don't play with options etc. After they give me the msrp as the price I give them my out the door price and they just try to sell me on a lesser model. It doesn't matter what price the dealership gives me, each one has added fees such that at every single place the total price has been the same amount at every dealer.

I will be heading to Pa Sunday and may find better deals there. Is there any value waiting until the end of the month or Nov/Dec?

NoVA seems to have better car prices than most areas

I just bought a new jeep wrangler and the process was pretty easy. I bought a new truck last year and ordered it from the factory. Got a fairly competitive price and got exactly what I wanted and nothing I didn't. Maybe ordering is the way to go.

the salesman at the jeep dealer told me last day of the month is a good day to shop/buy. Also a rainy day is good too.

Nip

Consider buying a low miles (5-15,000 miles) trade-in instead of a new car.

Factory warranty will still be on the car, the dealership will certify the car as being in tip top shape, and you will save many thousands of dollars. A new car depreciates 10-15% as soon as you drive it away from the dealership.

I have always considered the folks at Pohanka Lexus awesome folks. They can get you any Toyota you want.

I agree on the agony. Car buying is an archaic, regulated industry for no good reason other than to provide high school drop-outs a chance to earn a living by straight up lying all-day everyday.

If you have the time, ordering direct from factory is the way to go. Having everything you want and nothing you don't is nice, and I plan on buying my next vehicle in the same way.

Bought More Than A Few Cars Wrote:
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> Consider buying a low miles (5-15,000 miles)
> trade-in instead of a new car.
>
> Factory warranty will still be on the car, the
> dealership will certify the car as being in tip
> top shape, and you will save many thousands of
> dollars. A new car depreciates 10-15% as soon as
> you drive it away from the dealership.
>
>

I agree with this. Last car I bought was a 2011 Toyota 4Runner at Carmax. 25,000 on it when I bought it and got a 100,000 mile 7 year warranty. 60,000 now and still 3 years left on warranty

Carmax is my vote. Got my RAv4 there and love it.

Buyer Wrote:
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> I agree on the agony. Car buying is an archaic,
> regulated industry for no good reason other than
> to provide high school drop-outs a chance to earn
> a living by straight up lying all-day everyday.
>
> If you have the time, ordering direct from factory
> is the way to go. Having everything you want and
> nothing you don't is nice, and I plan on buying my
> next vehicle in the same way.


You will not get a reasonable price doing this. Are you paying straight MSRP?
I can't get over people paying close to MSRP prices.

Nicdoot Wrote:
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> Carmax is my vote. Got my RAv4 there and love it.


I looked at the carmax price for the car I'm considering and it is so close to msrp as to be a joke. The Carmax price is NOT a good price. After tax and tags, the price is more than the dealers price I'm being given. The dealers price is about 1k less even with their added destination fee.

The Fitzway is the only way to go.

Buyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree on the agony. Car buying is an archaic,
> regulated industry for no good reason other than
> to provide high school drop-outs a chance to earn
> a living by straight up lying all-day everyday.
>
> If you have the time, ordering direct from factory
> is the way to go. Having everything you want and
> nothing you don't is nice, and I plan on buying my
> next vehicle in the same way.

You're still gonna get bludgeoned by depreciation.

doo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> I looked at the carmax price for the car I'm
> considering and it is so close to msrp as to be a
> joke. The Carmax price is NOT a good price. After
> tax and tags, the price is more than the dealers
> price I'm being given. The dealers price is about
> 1k less even with their added destination fee.

You must have stupid tattooed on your forehead. I've bought 5 or 6 cars from Carmax and their price was always within $200-$300 of local dealer prices for the same vehicle. And Carmax doesnt sell junk like dealers. They have a reputation to uphold.

Run Baby Run Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> >
> > I looked at the carmax price for the car I'm
> > considering and it is so close to msrp as to be
> a
> > joke. The Carmax price is NOT a good price.
> After
> > tax and tags, the price is more than the
> dealers
> > price I'm being given. The dealers price is
> about
> > 1k less even with their added destination fee.
>
> You must have stupid tattooed on your forehead.
> I've bought 5 or 6 cars from Carmax and their
> price was always within $200-$300 of local dealer
> prices for the same vehicle. And Carmax doesnt
> sell junk like dealers. They have a reputation to
> uphold.

Carmax is a ripoff big time. If you bought a car from them, urine idiot. Unless, you're just stupid, or like to pay full price, or have a ton of money to over pay. No, no, no, you're just lazy and stupid. Gotta be a lib.

Run Baby Run Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> >
> >
> > I looked at the carmax price for the car I'm
> > considering and it is so close to msrp as to be
> a
> > joke. The Carmax price is NOT a good price.
> After
> > tax and tags, the price is more than the
> dealers
> > price I'm being given. The dealers price is
> about
> > 1k less even with their added destination fee.
>
> You must have stupid tattooed on your forehead.
> I've bought 5 or 6 cars from Carmax and their
> price was always within $200-$300 of local dealer
> prices for the same vehicle. And Carmax doesnt
> sell junk like dealers. They have a reputation to
> uphold.

Nah, I don't like tattoos. Pick a new car and go look at a dealer website. Get their "internet" price. I've been able to get multiple dealers below their internet price. Add whatever tax, and maybe 1k more for additional fees. Do the same with carmax. Even if I only add the cost of tax and tags, the carmax price is higher.

doo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate this. I do not enjoy any aspect of car
> shopping. I need to buy a new car and have decided
> on a Toyota. Which dealers should I hit first and
> which should I avoid. I've test driven the car I
> want at a dealer in another state and have tried
> dealing via the internet and phone. It isn't
> working. I'm getting what appears to be the same
> fixed price at most of the dealers.
>
> Oral surgery is more enjoyable than dealing with
> car sales people.

Actually, from your story, it seems the only thing worse than dealing with car sales people is what a car sales person has to go through dealing with you. If they are all giving you the same fixed price and it isn't working, maybe you are such a creep not even a car sales person wants to deal with you.

koons tysons toyota - ask for Sean J.

or call their internet sales department. just bought a car from them. they were 3-6% less than all other dealers.

The price of a car is whatever the dealer is willing to sell it for.

The only way you can find what that price is, is by negotiation. Hint: start low

lower than low Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> doo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I hate this. I do not enjoy any aspect of car
> > shopping. I need to buy a new car and have
> decided
> > on a Toyota. Which dealers should I hit first
> and
> > which should I avoid. I've test driven the car
> I
> > want at a dealer in another state and have
> tried
> > dealing via the internet and phone. It isn't
> > working. I'm getting what appears to be the
> same
> > fixed price at most of the dealers.
> >
> > Oral surgery is more enjoyable than dealing
> with
> > car sales people.
>
> Actually, from your story, it seems the only thing
> worse than dealing with car sales people is what a
> car sales person has to go through dealing with
> you. If they are all giving you the same fixed
> price and it isn't working, maybe you are such a
> creep not even a car sales person wants to deal
> with you.

You know therapy could help you.

Refuse to pay the $500.00 processing fee. Just another dealer rip-off.

If they refuse - Walk.

Best time to do it is after the sales person has invested a good amount of time with you.

See how fast the give in.

We went to Miller Toyota in Manassas. Another good one is Alexandria Toyota. Some go to MD as the $500 fee is more like $200 so you can get better price sometimes. Hybrids are down a bit with good incentives.

Compared CarMax prices to similar places in other states. CarMax always 3-4K more for same model around the same mileage. Ended up buying the last vehicle from Pennsylvania. Pain to deal with the transfer tag and have to wait at the DMV to pay the tax for VA, but in the end the savings was undeniable.

watch this:

http://bigthink.com/videos/how-to-buy-a-car-using-game-theory-2

You need to not only do your homework has far as the car is concerned, you need to do your homework on sales techniques. NLP, is something you need to especially look into because they all use this method.
One example of NLP is this, I dated a car salesman. He said, tell me your sexual fantasies I want to know your boundaries. What he was doing was merging my boundaries and fantasies into one entity. They are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum.
Never reveal if you are visual, auditory, touch etc.. person. If you are a visual person do not dress well. Try to keep your comments about looks to a minimum. They can manipulate you through your senses.
Know that honesty is the new con. Most regular people tell little white lies all the time. The real conmen are honest 95% of the time, its in the other 5% that they bury you.
Always be positive, friendly and treat them with "respect". Approaching them as they are- sleazy conmen will only make them angry and they will really screw you.
Get the hell out if you start to feel dreamy, enchanted, obsessing on a certain image or idea, in which case they have thrown some serious covert hypnosis on you.

feelforyou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Always be positive, friendly and treat them with
> "respect". Approaching them as they are- sleazy
> conmen will only make them angry and they will
> really screw you.
>


The only people who get screwed by car salesmen are the idiots who allow themselves to be screwed. Fortunately for car salesmen, there is no shortage of idiots in this area and more are being turned loose every day.

I am one of "those idiots" and I just used Costco and it worked fine. They do try to charge you extra for undercoating (a lot of them do it regardless of whether you pay for it or not), they want to sell you extended service plans, extended warranties, etc. etc.

The Costco price was good enough for me.

Goddamn you people are stupid.

Try CarMax Laurel Toyota (new cars) They give you the price up front.. on the internet as a matter of fact, and their fee for selling you the car is much less than most... have bought 2 cars up there

Has anyone tried getting dealers to compete, perhaps via email, like a reverse auction? I.e., email a bunch of dealers with your specs and have them undercut one another until only one remains? Have not bought a car in years so haven't had a chance to try this out yet.

+1 on getting a used certified.

Let the first owner take the depreciation hit.

Take that 5k you saved by buying it only a year or 2 old, and take a nice vacation or buy gold or something.

About to do the same- I love those new F150's but am waiting until next year to pull the trigger on a 2015. There's always those people who buy a brand new 50k truck off the lot for full price, have it for maybe a year, lose their job, and have to turn it back in to the dealership (or get it repo'd) and bam, you have a nice, still pretty new certified truck for 5-10k less than the original sucker paid.

Unless you HAVE to be the first ass to sit in that seat as an owner- go used certified. Key word- CERTIFIED so you still get that full warranty.

I always play the dealers against each other and get what I want at thousands off the price. Don't be afraid to claim you can get the car at another dealer for less, call the salesman and tell them a dealer offered you the same car for $500 less, then ask them if their willing to match it, then call the other dealer and tell them you just got offered $500 less and are they willing to beat that deal. I do this for 2 weeks, then go with the best deal. I stake out 4 dealers for this.

hustlenomics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> +1 on getting a used certified.
>
> Let the first owner take the depreciation hit.
>
> Take that 5k you saved by buying it only a year or
> 2 old, and take a nice vacation or buy gold or
> something.
>
> About to do the same- I love those new F150's but
> am waiting until next year to pull the trigger on
> a 2015. There's always those people who buy a
> brand new 50k truck off the lot for full price,
> have it for maybe a year, lose their job, and have
> to turn it back in to the dealership (or get it
> repo'd) and bam, you have a nice, still pretty new
> certified truck for 5-10k less than the original
> sucker paid.
>
> Unless you HAVE to be the first ass to sit in that
> seat as an owner- go used certified. Key word-
> CERTIFIED so you still get that full warranty.


Good plan, but with interest free financing, why pay interest charges plus smell the farts from the guy that owned the truck first?

Check your numbers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hustlenomics Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > +1 on getting a used certified.
> >
> > Let the first owner take the depreciation hit.
> >
> > Take that 5k you saved by buying it only a year
> or
> > 2 old, and take a nice vacation or buy gold or
> > something.
> >
> > About to do the same- I love those new F150's
> but
> > am waiting until next year to pull the trigger
> on
> > a 2015. There's always those people who buy a
> > brand new 50k truck off the lot for full price,
> > have it for maybe a year, lose their job, and
> have
> > to turn it back in to the dealership (or get it
> > repo'd) and bam, you have a nice, still pretty
> new
> > certified truck for 5-10k less than the
> original
> > sucker paid.
> >
> > Unless you HAVE to be the first ass to sit in
> that
> > seat as an owner- go used certified. Key word-
> > CERTIFIED so you still get that full warranty.
>
>
> Good plan, but with interest free financing, why
> pay interest charges plus smell the farts from the
> guy that owned the truck first?

Because you're still paying more. Besides OP may be buying with cash, only peasants have car payments.

Marcy Syms Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> feelforyou Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Always be positive, friendly and treat them
> with
> > "respect". Approaching them as they are- sleazy
> > conmen will only make them angry and they will
> > really screw you.
> >
>
>
> The only people who get screwed by car salesmen
> are the idiots who allow themselves to be screwed.
> Fortunately for car salesmen, there is no shortage
> of idiots in this area and more are being turned
> loose every day.

I do think a lot of people are idiots about the process but even more people have problems with face to face interactions. Throw in contention (haggling over money) and they want to run out the door. My guess is more people are paying very close to msrp prices just because of this inability to interact and deal with contention. I have seen so many people, look at the posters here, who got a little off of the msrp and are happy. It's like a decade of people got hoodwinked into thinking the msrp isn't that bad. It is THAT bad. It is a FUCKING OUTRAGEOUS price. Even what the dealers call their Invoice price is a joke now. This generation of car buyers has ruined it for everyone.

it still cost more... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Check your numbers Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > hustlenomics Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > +1 on getting a used certified.
> > >
> > > Let the first owner take the depreciation hit.
>
> > >
> > > Take that 5k you saved by buying it only a
> year
> > or
> > > 2 old, and take a nice vacation or buy gold
> or
> > > something.
> > >
> > > About to do the same- I love those new F150's
> > but
> > > am waiting until next year to pull the
> trigger
> > on
> > > a 2015. There's always those people who buy a
> > > brand new 50k truck off the lot for full
> price,
> > > have it for maybe a year, lose their job, and
> > have
> > > to turn it back in to the dealership (or get
> it
> > > repo'd) and bam, you have a nice, still
> pretty
> > new
> > > certified truck for 5-10k less than the
> > original
> > > sucker paid.
> > >
> > > Unless you HAVE to be the first ass to sit in
> > that
> > > seat as an owner- go used certified. Key
> word-
> > > CERTIFIED so you still get that full
> warranty.
> >
> >
> > Good plan, but with interest free financing,
> why
> > pay interest charges plus smell the farts from
> the
> > guy that owned the truck first?
>
> Because you're still paying more. Besides OP may
> be buying with cash, only peasants have car
> payments.


I agree that buying a used car makes the most financial sense it just makes the process more complicated. The previous year models for the car I'm looking for lack the features I want. I will pay cash when I go to buy my next car unless there is 0% financing for a long enough time period.

buy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I do think a lot of people are idiots about the
> process but even more people have problems with
> face to face interactions.


This is a direct result of the generations that are growing up living with the face stuck in a phone. Today's 20 and 30 somethings have no idea how to have a face to face conversation. It scares them. Im sure plenty have tried to negotiate a car purchase by text message.

>
> Because you're still paying more. Besides OP may
> be buying with cash, only peasants have car
> payments.

Only a total idiot would give up 40K or more when there is interest free money for 48-72 months - Depending on the car/truck.


I drive out of the dealership on my signature, and keep all of that money invested and working for me.

I guess paying cash was the only option you had when you bought your 1999 Nissan Sentra last year.

My Way - Smart Moves Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
> I drive out of the dealership on my signature, and
> keep all of that money invested and working for
> me.
>
>

Except the $2000-$3000 that went bye bye as soon as you exited the dealer lot.