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Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: dp ()
Date: October 01, 2015 10:24AM

Are there kayakers interested in paddling the Bull Run River on Sunday when the rain stops? Put in at 28 and pull out at Davis Ford or PWC Pkwy. Water height has already doubled. Any experienced kayakers who could respond to safety concerns would be appreciated.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Idiot paddler ()
Date: October 01, 2015 10:45AM

Make sure you forget your pfd.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Bullrunner ()
Date: October 01, 2015 11:04AM

dp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are there kayakers interested in paddling the Bull
> Run River on Sunday when the rain stops? Put in
> at 28 and pull out at Davis Ford or PWC Pkwy.
> Water height has already doubled. Any experienced
> kayakers who could respond to safety concerns
> would be appreciated.

Hey yankee, it's simply called Bull Run, not Bull Run River. LOL

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Damian ()
Date: October 01, 2015 12:06PM

You're gonna die out there! Hehehe!

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: heymack ()
Date: October 01, 2015 12:10PM


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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Better You Than Me ()
Date: October 01, 2015 12:12PM

This sunday, I'm not sure whether it will be wetter in the river or above it. LOL

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: October 01, 2015 12:24PM

Bullrunner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's simply called Bull Run, not Bull Run River.

This.

At one time the term "run" was roughly synonymous with the term "creek". Bull Run is the creek named Bull, just at the Potomac River is a river named Potomac.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Go for it ()
Date: October 01, 2015 12:37PM

Great Falls or no balls.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: No Bull ()
Date: October 01, 2015 02:03PM

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bullrunner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > it's simply called Bull Run, not Bull Run
> River.
>
> This.
>
> At one time the term "run" was roughly synonymous
> with the term "creek". Bull Run is the creek
> named Bull, just at the Potomac River is a river
> named Potomac.

Exactly, in this case the body of water named Bull runs into the Potomac.
Hence it was called Bull Run.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Cub Run ()
Date: October 01, 2015 02:16PM

Cub Run would be more challenging/exciting (if that's the goal).
Bull Run is too wide to get much beyond a swifter current.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Jim Bob ()
Date: October 01, 2015 02:18PM

What the hell you wanna go fuck around with that river for?

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Run not River ()
Date: October 01, 2015 02:22PM

Jim Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What the hell you wanna go fuck around with that
> river for?

Oh lordy, we just covered this in about 4 different posts! It a "run" not a river!

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Run vs Creek ()
Date: October 01, 2015 02:24PM

Generally, the difference is size: you can step over a brook, jump over a creek, wade across a stream, and swim across a river. But the distinction between them (especially creek and stream) is somewhat hazy, and depends on who named them and when they were named. A run (such as Bull Run in Virginia) is a "small stream". Streams and rivers named kill (from the Middle Dutch word kille) occur frequently in New York (and occasionally in nearby states), and were most likely named by the Dutch. Some of these have had "creek" or "river" added to them later (Catskill Creek, Fishkill River).

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: dp ()
Date: October 01, 2015 05:39PM

Cub Run, thanks for the reasonable response. Ha, the rest of you should consider taking a reading comprehension class, ha. Not trying to insult anyone, I'm new to this forum. The irregular focus on the word "River" resulted in the inability to recognize what was being asked. Fun crowd. :)

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: G ()
Date: October 01, 2015 10:48PM

there's not a real good place to take out at either Davis Ford Rd or PW Pkwy. the better place is to take out at Bull Run marina right after the Yates Ford Rd bridge and carry up to the large parking lot. it's a 9 mile paddle from 28 to there.

the sweet spot is about 4 ft on the Rt 28 gauge. at higher levels the little rapids wash out. there's been a huge strainer stuck about a mile down from 28 for the last couple seasons, maybe this rain event will wash that out.
http://www.water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=lwx&gage=mpbv2&prob_type=stage

the more fun section after a good rain is from Sudley Springs to the Stone Bridge.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Certain death ()
Date: October 02, 2015 04:28AM

DP. IS that really your handle? LOL. Anyway, you need to watch out for strainers. There will be lots of them with all the water coming down stream.
Personally, I wouldn't do it. Bullrun has been known to rise 14-15 ft in an hr.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Nomenclature ()
Date: October 02, 2015 05:31AM

Rocky Run flows into Cub Run, which flows into Bull Run, which flows into the Occoquan River, which flows into the Potomac River.

Keep in mind, however, that Little River is a tributary of Goose Creek.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Just Curious ()
Date: October 02, 2015 06:53AM

What's a "strainer"?

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: mjs ()
Date: October 02, 2015 07:41AM

Just Curious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's a "strainer"?
really... you gotta ask....if you are smart enough to type the questino they by god you are smrt enough to use google. but a strainer is very similar to its kitchen counter part. it lets the water flow through while grabbing bits and peices to keep them from going down the drain.

int he case of rivers its usually some large trees/branches that have gotten stuck. water goes through larger things, like humans and kayaks do not.
in the case of humans they can be deadly.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Options ()
Date: October 02, 2015 09:22AM

Route 28 to Bull Run Marina would be your best bet. Going to Davis Ford or the Parkway would have you going upstream for the last leg of the trip once you got to the confluence of the Bull Run and Occoquan.

There are a few rapids right at RT28, but as G said they get washed out rather quickly. There may be one small set of class 1's further down and then the rapids from the old dam at hemlock. Really, none of that should be a problem. Biggest issue would be any new strainers the storm created. Usually nothing will block the bull run 100% from below 28 but with heavy rains and currents it could be interesting to navigate around some of the new debris. If nothing else you can make a salom course out of the floating plastic bottles.

If you are looking for whitewater, this stretch is probably not the best. If you are looking for a moderately safe place to explore the storm waters then the Bull Run would be a good trip if you go with experienced paddlers. There are going to be a lot cooler places to explore after the storm but the risk of death or costly helicopter evacuations increase with the fun factor.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: causeican ()
Date: October 02, 2015 09:54AM

Options Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Route 28 to Bull Run Marina would be your best
> bet. Going to Davis Ford or the Parkway would
> have you going upstream for the last leg of the
> trip once you got to the confluence of the Bull
> Run and Occoquan.
>
> There are a few rapids right at RT28, but as G
> said they get washed out rather quickly. There
> may be one small set of class 1's further down and
> then the rapids from the old dam at hemlock.
> Really, none of that should be a problem. Biggest
> issue would be any new strainers the storm
> created. Usually nothing will block the bull run
> 100% from below 28 but with heavy rains and
> currents it could be interesting to navigate
> around some of the new debris. If nothing else
> you can make a salom course out of the floating
> plastic bottles.
>
> If you are looking for whitewater, this stretch is
> probably not the best. If you are looking for a
> moderately safe place to explore the storm waters
> then the Bull Run would be a good trip if you go
> with experienced paddlers. There are going to be
> a lot cooler places to explore after the storm but
> the risk of death or costly helicopter evacuations
> increase with the fun factor.


Love that! Sounds like fun.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: causeican ()
Date: October 02, 2015 09:56AM

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bullrunner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > it's simply called Bull Run, not Bull Run
> River.
>
> This.
>
> At one time the term "run" was roughly synonymous
> with the term "creek". Bull Run is the creek
> named Bull, just at the Potomac River is a river
> named Potomac.

What? Don’t answer that.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: derpers gonna derp ()
Date: October 02, 2015 10:25AM

causeican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill.N. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bullrunner Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > it's simply called Bull Run, not Bull Run
> > River.
> >
> > This.
> >
> > At one time the term "run" was roughly
> synonymous
> > with the term "creek". Bull Run is the creek
> > named Bull, just at the Potomac River is a
> river
> > named Potomac.
>
> What? Don’t answer that.

Lol! So you basically replied "I'm a fucking idiot and I don't want to learn."
Keep that ignorance real.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: causeican ()
Date: October 02, 2015 04:47PM

You just had to answer, didn’t you? Don’t answer that.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Listen ()
Date: October 02, 2015 05:31PM

You got some very good pointers from G. The strainers could be hazardous.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: G ()
Date: October 02, 2015 06:28PM

last time I was thru there a sneak route had opened up on river left to get around the strainer (huge tree that fell over from the right bank and blocked the entire width of the stream); the time before that, I had to carry over the mud bank on the left side. conditions always change after a big rain so approach with caution.

there's not much consistency to the terminology in naming various sized streams in the Mid-Atlantic. study a map of the Shenandoah National Park and you'll see water courses running off the mountains named Stream, Run, Creek, Branch, Fork, Prong and River. some of the streams named "river" in that area seem hardly worthy of that designation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/02/2015 06:29PM by G.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: G ()
Date: October 02, 2015 06:42PM

Nomenclature Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keep in mind, however, that Little River is a
> tributary of Goose Creek.


The Little River and Goose Creek were once part of a canal scheme intended to open up navigation from the Potomac River to the mills in Aldie. It was never fully completed or commercially viable, killed off by the railroad and improvement of the -- you guessed it -- Little River Turnpike.
http://www.loudounhistory.org/history/goose-creek-canal.htm

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Ying Ko ()
Date: October 02, 2015 06:54PM

G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nomenclature Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Keep in mind, however, that Little River is a
> > tributary of Goose Creek.
>
>
> The Little River and Goose Creek were once part of
> a canal scheme intended to open up navigation from
> the Potomac River to the mills in Aldie. It was
> never fully completed or commercially viable,
> killed off by the railroad and improvement of the
> -- you guessed it -- Little River Turnpike.
> http://www.loudounhistory.org/history/goose-creek-
> canal.htm

That is a great story of Loudoun County.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Can I have your car? ()
Date: October 02, 2015 07:38PM

Options Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Route 28 to Bull Run Marina would be your best
> bet. Going to Davis Ford or the Parkway would
> have you going upstream for the last leg of the
> trip once you got to the confluence of the Bull
> Run and Occoquan.
>
> There are a few rapids right at RT28, but as G
> said they get washed out rather quickly. There
> may be one small set of class 1's further down and
> then the rapids from the old dam at hemlock.
> Really, none of that should be a problem. Biggest
> issue would be any new strainers the storm
> created. Usually nothing will block the bull run
> 100% from below 28 but with heavy rains and
> currents it could be interesting to navigate
> around some of the new debris. If nothing else
> you can make a salom course out of the floating
> plastic bottles.
>
> If you are looking for whitewater, this stretch is
> probably not the best. If you are looking for a
> moderately safe place to explore the storm waters
> then the Bull Run would be a good trip if you go
> with experienced paddlers. There are going to be
> a lot cooler places to explore after the storm but
> the risk of death or costly helicopter evacuations
> increase with the fun factor.



Possible winner for the 2016 Darwin Awards ceremony

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: causeican ()
Date: October 02, 2015 08:18PM

G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> last time I was thru there a sneak route had
> opened up on river left to get around the strainer
> (huge tree that fell over from the right bank and
> blocked the entire width of the stream); the time
> before that, I had to carry over the mud bank on
> the left side. conditions always change after a
> big rain so approach with caution.
>
> there's not much consistency to the terminology in
> naming various sized streams in the Mid-Atlantic.
> study a map of the Shenandoah National Park and
> you'll see water courses running off the mountains
> named Stream, Run, Creek, Branch, Fork, Prong and
> River. some of the streams named "river" in that
> area seem hardly worthy of that designation.

“Prong”? Never heard of Prong. That sounds wrong.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Taxpayer ()
Date: October 02, 2015 08:36PM

Hey DP, if your idiotic adventure goes badly, do everyone a favor and don't endanger any first responders by requiring a potentially dangerous rescue.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: dumbieduhdumdum ()
Date: October 02, 2015 08:44PM

I think Not dude!

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: what a coincidence ()
Date: October 02, 2015 09:12PM

im going kayaking on anacostia any advice???

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: wear a fucking vest. ()
Date: October 02, 2015 09:52PM

my dad used to bring me down the delaware in an open canoe during floods - you will be fine just wear a fucking vest.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: chute ()
Date: October 02, 2015 10:06PM

what a coincidence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> im going kayaking on anacostia any advice???


Bring a gun.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Burke Brat ()
Date: October 03, 2015 12:28AM

Watch out at Lake Drive and the 90 degree left turn, A Kayaker was rescued there last year, and I am pretty sure the tree is still there.
Attachments:
kayak.jpg

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: WWF ()
Date: October 03, 2015 12:48AM

what a coincidence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> im going kayaking on anacostia any advice???


Beware of the local wildlife.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: SwimmingWithFishes ()
Date: October 04, 2015 09:10AM

Bull Run at RT28 bridge today - 10/4/2015

I think you'll be fine, the rapids aren't even washed out yet.
Attachments:
IMG5.JPG

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: SwimmingWithFishes ()
Date: October 04, 2015 09:16AM

First photo on 8/28/2011
Rest on 9/28/2011 after Irene (the stairway and banks were flooded so didn't get a lower shot).
Attachments:
IMG1.JPG
IMG2.JPG
IMG3.JPG
IMG4.JPG

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: causeican ()
Date: October 04, 2015 09:25AM

Go for it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great Falls or no balls.


This.

The falls called Great.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: yr pics ()
Date: October 04, 2015 09:51AM

Great pics! Does anyone have anything from Bull Run? I ran it in 12.5 ft kayaks in the summer and ended up covered in bruises from the water being so low we were in and out.

Right now would not be a good time to go there; wait maybe a day, but be hyper vigilant of submerged logs that could surprise you and drag you underwater and you'd be unable to get out.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: Anacostia ()
Date: October 04, 2015 09:54AM

Anacostia- be aware that anytime it rains in this area over a few inches, the sewers overflow into the Potomac (and thus, the Anacostia). Until this is changed, they are rivers to avoid for a couple of days after rains.

Anyone with more specific info, please post.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: G ()
Date: October 04, 2015 12:37PM

yr pics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great pics! Does anyone have anything from Bull
> Run? I ran it in 12.5 ft kayaks in the summer and
> ended up covered in bruises from the water being
> so low we were in and out.
>
> Right now would not be a good time to go there;
> wait maybe a day, but be hyper vigilant of
> submerged logs that could surprise you and drag
> you underwater and you'd be unable to get out.

the gauge is already under 5 ft, I'd see no problem running it today, we didn't get that much rain. there's not much gradient from Rt 28 down to the reservoir, the current runs out by the time you get to the gun range, when water levels are higher it's actually kind of boring. In drier periods you need at least 3 ft / 100 CFS on the gauge I linked above to make it worth the trip.

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: gauge? ()
Date: October 04, 2015 12:39PM

What gauge?

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: GaugesPegged ()
Date: October 05, 2015 07:50AM

The gauge is the thing in the metal silo under the bridge. Data can be found here http://www.owml.vt.edu/

More pics can be found on http://www.panoramio.com/

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: dp ()
Date: October 05, 2015 09:44AM

Thanks for all your good input and pics.

Paddled down Bull Run in a 12' kayak on Sunday, 10/4. It was not hazardous. It was much better than at 3' water height because we didn't have to portage at all. It was still 3 hours from 28 to the marina. Water height increase doesn't equal water speed increase.

Looking for more rapids within 30 min of Fairfax. Nothing over class 3. Any ideas?

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: GaugesPegged ()
Date: October 05, 2015 09:26PM

Check out Harpers Ferry. That is where the Shenandoah and the Potomac meet. There are some class 1-2+ out there. There are some long stretches of flat water inbetween but nice scenery. Parts of the Shenandoah can be fun too if the water high enough, otherwise you're dragging bottom. Be aware that there are old hydro dams up in that area that have to be portaged around. Usually they are marked with buoys, but sometimes they get washed away. And then sometimes a ranger comes and yells at you for getting to close to the dam and not having your PFD on in March.

You can also check out the Rappahannock and Rapidan down near Fredericksburg. If you want a longer trip the Monocacy in MD is nice and so is the Cacapon in WV.

More sites to check out:
http://www.riverexplorer.com/
https://www.americanwhitewater.org/
http://www.riverfriends.org/

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Re: Kayaking Bull Run River on Sunday 10/4
Posted by: GaugesPegged ()
Date: October 05, 2015 09:31PM

Violette's Lock is also a good one.

"The Violette's Lock/GW Canal run on the Potomac river is an excellent run for paddlers who are working on their skills. Local canoe clubs use this river section extensively for training. The rapids are Class I-II in nature and are appropriate for practiced novice and higher skilled boaters."
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/739

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