Well lets see ..
UK, virtually a gun free society, less than 100 gun killings over ten years
USA, 2nd amendment society, 300,000 plus gun killings over 10 years, most of then spouses, other family members or close acquaintances ...
BANG - "Oh sorry son, thought you wus a burglar, how'd I know ya forget your key's !!!"
So that gun of yours keeps you safe? ... yeah right

You need to flesh out your stats a little more. For example, US has a lot more people than UK - what are the gun deaths per capita? How many are accidents (Bang, oh sorry), vs murders? How do the accidents compare with other major causes of accidental death (e.g. automobiles)? How do the murder rates compare? UK, being an island, can actually make it difficult for criminals to get guns. How does the US compare with other gun control countries with large borders?

Families I know with guns have "safe words" to prevent the scenario you suggest. Sounds like an essential safety measure. (And I know a couple that accidentally ran over their own toddler in the driveway, so guns aren't the only problem. Hence the popularity of backup camera's in newer family cars.)

Here is a good page with US stats through 2010: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2015 04:46PM by CustomDesigned.

The US has 41 times more total gun-related deaths per capita than does the UK.

The US has 39 times more gun-related homicides per capita than does the UK.

The US has 16 times more unintentional gun-related deaths per capita than does the UK.

The US has 4.5 times more gun-related deaths of an undetermined nature per capita than does the UK.

Attachments:

Guns actually save lives.

Several lives today were saved by a cop with a gun who shot a man at a movie theater who had a rifle (which he hadn't used) and a hatchet (which he had used on a man).

Little sniffle-nosed Liberals who were not allowed to play Cowboys and Indians as a kid just hate guns. They are okay with crimes, but hate guns. I wonder why?

Maybe it's because they believe that individuals don't have rights, and that we should live in a good Liberal Progressive country like China: no gun ownership there.

YDFpN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns actually save lives.
>
> Several lives today were saved by a cop with a gun
> who shot a man at a movie theater who had a rifle
> (which he hadn't used) and a hatchet (which he had
> used on a man).
>
> Little sniffle-nosed Liberals who were not allowed
> to play Cowboys and Indians as a kid just hate
> guns. They are okay with crimes, but hate guns. I
> wonder why?
>
> Maybe it's because they believe that individuals
> don't have rights, and that we should live in a
> good Liberal Progressive country like China: no
> gun ownership there.

Yes, rights are more important than lives.

YDFpN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns actually save lives.
>
> Several lives today were saved by a cop with a gun
> who shot a man at a movie theater who had a rifle
> (which he hadn't used) and a hatchet (which he had
> used on a man).
>
> Little sniffle-nosed Liberals who were not allowed
> to play Cowboys and Indians as a kid just hate
> guns. They are okay with crimes, but hate guns. I
> wonder why?
>
> Maybe it's because they believe that individuals
> don't have rights, and that we should live in a
> good Liberal Progressive country like China: no
> gun ownership there.


Not sure if trolling, or just stupid.

S. Brady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> src=http://i1.wp.com/www.armedwithreason.com/wp-co
> ntent/uploads/2013/09/dictators.jpg>


Right, because your little semi auto pea shooters are going to stop,





If "duh guverment is ganna take over" happens, like you right-tardz dream about.

S. Brady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> src=http://i1.wp.com/www.armedwithreason.com/wp-co
> ntent/uploads/2013/09/dictators.jpg>

Should we also tear up the interstate highway system because Hitler (supposedly) supported the autobahn?

porsche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> S. Brady Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> src=http://i1.wp.com/www.armedwithreason.com/wp-co
>
> > ntent/uploads/2013/09/dictators.jpg>
>
> Should we also tear up the interstate highway
> system because Hitler (supposedly) supported the
> autobahn?

Deflecting. You're out of gas.

Something strange
Apparently our troops are less likely to get shot in Iraq & Afghanistan than back home here in the USA ... isn't our 2nd amendment wonderful!!!

You can go live in the UK!

S. Brady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> porsche Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > S. Brady Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > > >
> >
> src=http://i1.wp.com/www.armedwithreason.com/wp-co
>
> >
> > > ntent/uploads/2013/09/dictators.jpg>
> >
> > Should we also tear up the interstate highway
> > system because Hitler (supposedly) supported
> the
> > autobahn?
>
> Deflecting. You're out of gas.

The pot calls the kettle black. You won't talk about the crime statistics in the U.S. Instead, you deflect by tying gun control to despots.

http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/article_a9a3cd36-dc50-5192-9b97-e14258e6168a.html


Gun-related violent crime continues to drop in Virginia as the sales of firearms continue to soar, a pattern that one local criminologist finds interesting “given the current rhetoric about strengthening gun laws.”

Major gun crime collectively dropped for a fourth consecutive year statewide, while firearms sales climbed to a new record in 2012 with 490,119 guns purchased in 444,844 transactions — a 16 percent rise over 2011, according to federally licensed gun dealer sales estimates obtained by the Richmond Times-Dispatch.

The proliferation of guns occurred as the total number of major reported crimes committed with all types of firearms in Virginia dropped 5 percent, from 4,618 offenses in 2011 to 4,378 last year, according to Virginia State Police data.

Looking back over seven years, total firearm sales in Virginia have risen a staggering 101 percent from 2006 to 2012, while gun-related crime has dropped 28 percent during that period.

“This appears to be additional evidence that more guns don’t necessarily lead to more crime,” said Thomas R. Baker, an assistant professor at Virginia Commonwealth University’s L. Douglas Wilder School of Government and Public Affairs who specializes in research methods and criminology theory.

DK. For you youngsters.

The problem is niggers and police, not guns.

Guns actually save lives.
>
> Several lives today were saved by a cop with a gun
> who shot a man at a movie theater who had a rifle
> (which he hadn't used) and a hatchet (which he had
> used on a man).
>
> Little sniffle-nosed Liberals who were not allowed
> to play Cowboys and Indians as a kid just hate
> guns. They are okay with crimes, but hate guns. I
> wonder why?
>
> Maybe it's because they believe that individuals
> don't have rights, and that we should live in a
> good Liberal Progressive country like China: no
> gun ownership there.



That was a cop who had the gun. I don;t think it is just about rights..Why do we need guns? Are there people breaking into your house every night...just curious? It seems like we're just asking for an accident waiting to happen with more guns out there.

wonderimgmann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> That was a cop who had the gun. I don;t think it
> is just about rights..Why do we need guns? Are
> there people breaking into your house every
> night...just curious? It seems like we're just
> asking for an accident waiting to happen with more
> guns out there.


Yet that doesn't happen. Even with 100% increases in gun purchases the numbers of accidental shootings has gone down. It's a relatively tiny number as it is anyway.

wonderimgmann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns actually save lives.
> >
> > Several lives today were saved by a cop with a
> gun
> > who shot a man at a movie theater who had a
> rifle
> > (which he hadn't used) and a hatchet (which he
> had
> > used on a man).
> >
> > Little sniffle-nosed Liberals who were not
> allowed
> > to play Cowboys and Indians as a kid just hate
> > guns. They are okay with crimes, but hate guns.
> I
> > wonder why?
> >
> > Maybe it's because they believe that
> individuals
> > don't have rights, and that we should live in a
> > good Liberal Progressive country like China: no
> > gun ownership there.
>
>
>
> That was a cop who had the gun. I don;t think it
> is just about rights..Why do we need guns? Are
> there people breaking into your house every
> night...just curious? It seems like we're just
> asking for an accident waiting to happen with more
> guns out there.

You need to get out of the house more often. The world doesn't revolve
around your cozy little neighborhood in Fairfax.

Colonel Colt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, rights are more important than lives.


Well yes, yes they are.

If you give up your rights you might as well give up your life. Your rights are what stop people from taking/controlling your life.

It's sad that people accept and preach the fact that rights mean nothing today and that we should just give them up.

I'm sorry, but until the day comes where criminals and tyrants throw down their guns and turn themselves in, I won't even CONSIDER selling mine.
You don't like it? Tough shit...

Saw this recently, not a bad idea!
Attachments:

Let's try this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Saw this recently, not a bad idea!

"Make"? Sounds totalitarian. Fuck you. Move to North Korea.

omb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's try this Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Saw this recently, not a bad idea!
>
> "Make"? Sounds totalitarian. Fuck you. Move to
> North Korea.


Agreed!

YDFpN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns actually save lives.
>
> Several lives today were saved by a cop with a gun
> who shot a man at a movie theater who had a rifle
> (which he hadn't used) and a hatchet (which he had
> used on a man).

That perp had a pellet handgun, not a rifle. He could buy an actual gun because...wait foir it...he fail the background check. See, gun control measures actually work!

I'm all for cops having guns. I'm against morons like you having guns.

omb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's try this Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Saw this recently, not a bad idea!
>
> "Make"? Sounds totalitarian. Fuck you. Move to
> North Korea.


Make. Like auto insurance. Fuck you. Move back to Somalia.

Stupidity of others is painful Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you give up your rights you might as well give
> up your life. Your rights are what stop people
> from taking/controlling your life.

Translation: The senseless deaths of thousands of innocents to gun violence every year is acceptable collateral damage, AKA “the price of freedom”.

Yes, the Constitution protects the right of Americans to keep and bear arms. But is that right limitless? Does any rule or law that regulates the sale or possession of firearms “infringe” on America’s 2nd Amendment rights?

We have limits on the rights protected by the 1st Amendment that clearly abridge the freedom of speech and of the press; and the right of the people peaceably to assemble.

The rights protected by the 4th Amendment are regularly reconsidered by the courts, as are those preserved by the 8th and 10th Amendments.

Why should the 2nd Amendment protections be sacrosanct? Why shouldn’t reasonable restriction on the sale or possession of firearms that protect the public at large while preserving guaranteed Constitutional freedoms be instituted?

Rights amongst men are limited Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stupidity of others is painful Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you give up your rights you might as well
> give
> > up your life. Your rights are what stop people
> > from taking/controlling your life.
>
> Translation: The senseless deaths of thousands of
> innocents to gun violence every year is acceptable
> collateral damage, AKA “the price of
> freedom”.
>
> Yes, the Constitution protects the right of
> Americans to keep and bear arms. But is that right
> limitless? Does any rule or law that regulates the
> sale or possession of firearms “infringe” on
> America’s 2nd Amendment rights?
>
> We have limits on the rights protected by the 1st
> Amendment that clearly abridge the freedom of
> speech and of the press; and the right of the
> people peaceably to assemble.
>
> The rights protected by the 4th Amendment are
> regularly reconsidered by the courts, as are those
> preserved by the 8th and 10th Amendments.
>
> Why should the 2nd Amendment protections be
> sacrosanct? Why shouldn’t reasonable restriction
> on the sale or possession of firearms that protect
> the public at large while preserving guaranteed
> Constitutional freedoms be instituted?

In case you haven't noticed there are over 22,000 gun control laws on the books in this country. You need to do some homework.

Just think what would have happened if the guy in Tennessee had used a gun instead of a hatchet...enough with guns already.

ICanReadWhyCan'tYou? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In case you haven't noticed there are over 22,000
> gun control laws on the books in this country. You
> need to do some homework.

I don't doubt it. How, exactly, if at all, do these laws 22,000 restrict the sale or possession of firearms?

nomore123456 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just think what would have happened if the guy in
> Tennessee had used a gun instead of a
> hatchet...enough with guns already.


Just think what would have happened if the guy in Tennessee had used a bomb instead. Or jammed the doors and set the place on fire using an accelerant like the psychos in China regularly do. You can imagine all kinds of things that didn't happen.

Fact of the matter is that the idiot could very easily get a gun if they wanted and no gun control measures would stop them. This particular nut obviously just wasn't all there or wasn't motivated to do so. Or wanted to commit suicide by cop. Who the fuck otherwise tries an assault on a theater with a pellet rifle?

YU cannot comprehend? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ICanReadWhyCan'tYou? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In case you haven't noticed there are over
> 22,000
> > gun control laws on the books in this country.
> You
> > need to do some homework.
>
> I don't doubt it. How, exactly, if at all, do
> these laws 22,000 restrict the sale or possession
> of firearms?

Google: gun laws
I'm not going to do your homework for you. Note my screen name.

YU cannot comprehend? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ICanReadWhyCan'tYou? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In case you haven't noticed there are over
> 22,000
> > gun control laws on the books in this country.
> You
> > need to do some homework.
>
> I don't doubt it. How, exactly, if at all, do
> these laws 22,000 restrict the sale or possession
> of firearms?

Are you fucking kidding me? You want to start a debate about gun control and you don't even know the first thing about the laws that restrict the sale or possession of firearms?????

Are you always this unprepared? You must've just taken the liberal talking point and ran with it without doing any independent research or thinking for yourself. Pathetic.

Word of advice, if you want to engage in an intelligent discussion about a topic, avail yourself to as much information as possible. Sad to think you've made it to adulthood without learning this.

YDFpN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guns actually save lives.

If more guns = less gun violence, than why does the US experience many, many many times greater per capita gun-related deaths than does the UK?

Attachments:

Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.

US v. UK, it's pretty grim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YDFpN Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guns actually save lives.
>
> If more guns = less gun violence,

That wasn't the contention.

> than why does
> the US experience many, many many times greater
> per capita gun-related deaths than does the UK?
>


If the resulting homicide from a gun was used to save the life of an innocent person, it certainly saved a life.

A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.

Atlanta Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for
> Disease Control and Prevention found that
> Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who
> are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times
> per year.

Citation, please.

Citation, please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Atlanta Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for
> > Disease Control and Prevention found that
> > Americans use guns to frighten away intruders
> who
> > are breaking into their homes about 498,000
> times
> > per year.
>
> Citation, please.

I gave you the source and the year. You seriously can't look that up?

Tell you what though. I've got the citation ready to go. Just admit that if that stat is true, that guns save lives.

US Deaths per 100,000 caused by motor vehicles - 13.6
GB Deaths per 100,000 caused by motor vehicles - 6.2

Clearly all motor vehicles should be banned

DanKnows Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> US Deaths per 100,000 caused by motor vehicles -
> 13.6
> GB Deaths per 100,000 caused by motor vehicles -
> 6.2
>
> Clearly all motor vehicles should be banned

Only someone who does not understand the concept of cost-benefit analysis would think that was dispositive.

cite this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Citation, please Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Atlanta Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers
> for
> > > Disease Control and Prevention found that
> > > Americans use guns to frighten away intruders
> > who
> > > are breaking into their homes about 498,000
> > times
> > > per year.
> >
> > Citation, please.
>
> I gave you the source and the year. You seriously
> can't look that up?
>
> Tell you what though. I've got the citation ready
> to go. Just admit that if that stat is true, that
> guns save lives.

Do they help prevent suicides, too?

hayek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DanKnows Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > US Deaths per 100,000 caused by motor vehicles
> -
> > 13.6
> > GB Deaths per 100,000 caused by motor vehicles
> -
> > 6.2
> >
> > Clearly all motor vehicles should be banned
>
> Only someone who does not understand the concept
> of cost-benefit analysis would think that was
> dispositive.


Guns are used to frighten away intruders who are breaking into homes about 498,000 times per year.

That's a pretty big benefit right there!

freud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cite this Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Citation, please Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Atlanta Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers
> > for
> > > > Disease Control and Prevention found that
> > > > Americans use guns to frighten away
> intruders
> > > who
> > > > are breaking into their homes about 498,000
> > > times
> > > > per year.
> > >
> > > Citation, please.
> >
> > I gave you the source and the year. You
> seriously
> > can't look that up?
> >
> > Tell you what though. I've got the citation
> ready
> > to go. Just admit that if that stat is true,
> that
> > guns save lives.
>
> Do they help prevent suicides, too?


Nope. And neither does rope, automobile exhaust systems, medications, antifreeze, razor blades, tall buildings, automobiles, telephone poles, and a plethora of other things.

Besides, who are you to judge someone's decision to take their own life?

US v. UK, it's pretty grim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> YDFpN Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Guns actually save lives.
>
> If more guns = less gun violence, than why does
> the US experience many, many many times greater
> per capita gun-related deaths than does the UK?


If more guns = more deaths, then why does the US with +300 million guns experience many, many times lower per capita intentional murder rates than most of the rest of the world where there are strict gun controls?


Intentional Murder Rate

Honduras 90.4 7,172 Americas Central America 2012
Venezuela 53.7 16,072 Americas South America 2012
United States Virgin Islands (US) 52.6 56 Americas Caribbean 2010
Belize 44.7 145 Americas Central America 2012
El Salvador 41.2 2,594 Americas Central America 2012
Guatemala 39.9 6,025 Americas Central America 2012
Jamaica 39.3 1,087 Americas Caribbean 2012
Lesotho 38.0 764 Africa Southern Africa 2010
Swaziland 33.8 416 Africa Southern Africa 2012
Saint Kitts and Nevis 33.6 18 Americas Caribbean 2012
South Africa 31.0 16,259 Africa Southern Africa 2012
Colombia 30.8 14,670 Americas South America 2012 notes
Bahamas 29.8 111 Americas Caribbean 2012
Democratic Republic of the Congo 28.3 18,586 Africa Middle Africa 2012
Trinidad and Tobago 28.3 379 Americas Caribbean 2012
Puerto Rico (US) 26.5 978 Americas Caribbean 2012
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 25.6 28 Americas Caribbean 2012
Brazil 25.2 50,108 Americas South America 2012
Rwanda 23.1 2,648 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Dominican Republic 22.1 2,268 Americas Caribbean 2012
Saint Lucia 21.6 39 Americas Caribbean 2012
Mexico 21.5 26,037 Americas Central America 2012 notes
Dominica 21.1 15 Americas Caribbean 2010
Montserrat (UK) 20.4 1 Americas Caribbean 2008
Nigeria 20.0 33,817 Africa Western Africa 2012
Greenland (Denmark) 19.4 11 Europe Northern Europe 2009
Equatorial Guinea 19.3 142 Africa Middle Africa 2012
Botswana 18.4 368 Africa Southern Africa 2012
Namibia 17.2 388 Africa Southern Africa 2012
Panama 17.2 654 Americas Central America 2012
Guyana 17.0 135 Americas South America 2012
Saint Pierre and Miquelon (France) 16.5 1 Americas Northern America 2009
Myanmar 15.2 8,044 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2012
Cayman Islands (UK) 14.7 8 Americas Caribbean 2009
South Sudan 13.9 1,504 Africa Eastern Africa 2012 notes
Ivory Coast 13.6 2,691 Africa Western Africa 2012
Grenada 13.3 14 Americas Caribbean 2012
French Guiana (France) 13.3 30 Americas South America 2009
Turkmenistan 12.8 660 Asia Central Asia 2012
Tanzania 12.7 6,071 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Congo 12.5 541 Africa Middle Africa 2012
Mozambique 12.4 3,133 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Ecuador 12.4 1,924 Americas South America 2012
Bolivia 12.1 1,270 Americas South America 2012
Ethiopia 12.0 11,048 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Central African Republic 11.8 532 Africa Middle Africa 2012 notes
Nicaragua 11.3 675 Americas Central America 2012
Sudan 11.2 4,159 Africa Northern Africa 2012 notes
Antigua and Barbuda 11.2 10 Americas Caribbean 2012
Madagascar 11.1 2,465 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Uganda 10.7 3,753 Africa Eastern Africa 2011
Zambia 10.7 1,501 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Zimbabwe 10.6 1,450 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Papua New Guinea 10.4 713 Oceania Melanesia 2010
Cape Verde 10.3 51 Africa Western Africa 2012
Togo 10.3 684 Africa Western Africa 2012
Gambia 10.2 182 Africa Western Africa 2012
Haiti 10.2 1,033 Americas Caribbean 2012
Djibouti 10.1 87 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Comoros 10.0 72 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Angola 10.0 2,079 Africa Middle Africa 2012
Paraguay 9.7 649 Americas South America 2012
Mongolia 9.7 266 Asia Eastern Asia 2011
Peru 9.6 2,865 Americas South America 2012
Seychelles 9.5 9 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Russia 9.2 13,120 Europe Eastern Europe 2012
Gabon 9.1 148 Africa Middle Africa 2012
Kyrgyzstan 9.1 494 Asia Central Asia 2011
Guinea 8.9 1,018 Africa Western Africa 2012
Philippines 8.8 8,484 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2012
Costa Rica 8.5 407 Americas Central America 2012
Benin 8.4 848 Africa Western Africa 2012
Guinea-Bissau 8.4 140 Africa Western Africa 2012
British Virgin Islands (UK) 8.4 2 Americas Caribbean 2006
Kiribati 8.2 8 Oceania Micronesia 2011
Burundi 8.0 790 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Somalia 8.0 819 Africa Eastern Africa 2012 notes
Burkina Faso 8.0 1,311 Africa Western Africa 2012
Iraq 8.0 2,628 Asia Western Asia 2012 notes
Guadeloupe (France) 7.9 36 Americas Caribbean 2009
Uruguay 7.9 267 Americas South America 2012
Kazakhstan 7.8 1,263 Asia Central Asia 2012
Bermuda (UK) 7.7 5 Americas Northern America 2012
Pakistan 7.7 13,846 Asia Southern Asia 2012 notes
Cameroon 7.6 1,654 Africa Middle Africa 2012
Mali 7.5 1,119 Africa Western Africa 2012
Anguilla (UK) 7.5 1 Americas Caribbean 2012
Barbados 7.4 21 Americas Caribbean 2012
Palestine 7.4 312 Asia Western Asia 2012 notes
Chad 7.3 907 Africa Middle Africa 2012
Eritrea 7.1 437 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Lithuania 6.7 202 Europe Northern Europe 2012
Turks and Caicos Islands (UK) 6.6 2 Americas Caribbean 2009
Cambodia 6.5 964 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2012
Afghanistan 6.5 1,948 Asia Southern Asia 2012 notes
Moldova 6.5 229 Europe Eastern Europe 2012
Kenya 6.4 2,761 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Ghana 6.1 1,537 Africa Western Africa 2012
Suriname 6.1 33 Americas South America 2012
Mayotte (France) 6.0 12 Africa Eastern Africa 2009
Laos 5.9 392 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2012
Argentina 5.5 2,237 Americas South America 2010
North Korea 5.2 1,293 Asia Eastern Asia 2012
Belarus 5.1 486 Europe Eastern Europe 2010
Mauritania 5.0 191 Africa Western Africa 2012
Thailand 5.0 3,307 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2011
Estonia 5.0 65 Europe Northern Europe 2011
Albania 5.0 157 Europe Southern Europe 2012
Yemen 4.8 1,099 Asia Western Asia 2010
Niger 4.7 803 Africa Western Africa 2012
United States 4.7 14,827 Americas Northern America 2012
Latvia 4.7 97 Europe Northern Europe 2012
Micronesia 4.6 5 Oceania Micronesia 2012
Georgia 4.3 187 Asia Western Asia 2010
Ukraine 4.3 1,988 Europe Eastern Europe 2010
Solomon Islands 4.3 24 Oceania Melanesia 2012
Cuba 4.2 477 Americas Caribbean 2012
Tuvalu 4.2 x Oceania Polynesia 2012
Fiji 4.0 35 Oceania Melanesia 2012
Aruba (Netherlands) 3.9 4 Americas Caribbean 2010
Iran 3.9 3,126 Asia Southern Asia 2012
Maldives 3.9 13 Asia Southern Asia 2012
Uzbekistan 3.7 1,060 Asia Central Asia 2012
Timor-Leste 3.6 39 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2010
Kosovo 3.6 64 Europe Southern Europe 2010
Niue 3.6 x Oceania Polynesia 2012
Samoa 3.6 7 Oceania Polynesia 2012
India 3.5 43,355 Asia Southern Asia 2012
Egypt 3.4 2,703 Africa Northern Africa 2011
Sri Lanka 3.4 707 Asia Southern Asia 2011
Sao Tome and Principe 3.3 6 Africa Middle Africa 2011
Vietnam 3.3 3,037 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2012
New Caledonia (France) 3.3 8 Oceania Melanesia 2009
Liberia 3.2 135 Africa Western Africa 2012
Chile 3.1 550 Americas South America 2012
Palau 3.1 x Oceania Micronesia 2012
Cook Islands 3.1 x Oceania Polynesia 2012
Taiwan 3.0 686 Asia Eastern Asia 2011
Nepal 2.9 786 Asia Southern Asia 2011
Vanuatu 2.9 7 Oceania Melanesia 2012
Mauritius 2.8 34 Africa Eastern Africa 2011
Senegal 2.8 379 Africa Western Africa 2012
Malta 2.8 12 Europe Southern Europe 2012
Martinique (France) 2.7 11 Americas Caribbean 2009
Bangladesh 2.7 4,169 Asia Southern Asia 2012
Montenegro 2.7 17 Europe Southern Europe 2012
Turkey 2.6 1,866 Asia Western Asia 2011
United Arab Emirates 2.6 235 Asia Western Asia 2012
Guam (US) 2.5 4 Oceania Micronesia 2011
Malaysia 2.3 652 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2012
Morocco 2.2 704 Africa Northern Africa 2012
Tunisia 2.2 235 Africa Northern Africa 2012
Lebanon 2.2 95 Asia Western Asia 2010
Syria 2.2 463 Asia Western Asia 2010
Norway 2.2 111 Europe Northern Europe 2011 notes
Azerbaijan 2.1 194 Asia Western Asia 2010
Brunei 2.0 8 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2012
Cyprus 2.0 23 Asia Western Asia 2012
Jordan 2.0 133 Asia Western Asia 2011
Sierra Leone 1.9 113 Africa Western Africa 2012
Bulgaria 1.9 141 Europe Eastern Europe 2012
Malawi 1.8 279 Africa Eastern Africa 2012
Réunion (France) 1.8 15 Africa Eastern Africa 2009
Armenia 1.8 54 Asia Western Asia 2012
Israel 1.8 134 Asia Western Asia 2012 notes
Libya 1.7 103 Africa Northern Africa 2012 notes
Bhutan 1.7 12 Asia Southern Asia 2012
Romania 1.7 378 Europe Eastern Europe 2012
Greece 1.7 184 Europe Southern Europe 2011
Canada 1.6 543 Americas Northern America 2012
Tajikistan 1.6 126 Asia Central Asia 2011
Finland 1.6 89 Europe Northern Europe 2012
Belgium 1.6 182 Europe Western Europe 2012
Slovakia 1.4 75 Europe Eastern Europe 2012
Macedonia 1.4 30 Europe Southern Europe 2011
Hungary 1.3 132 Europe Eastern Europe 2012
Andorra 1.3 1 Europe Southern Europe 2010
Bosnia and Herzegovina 1.3 51 Europe Southern Europe 2011
Nauru 1.3 x Oceania Micronesia 2012
Poland 1.2 449 Europe Eastern Europe 2011
Ireland 1.2 54 Europe Northern Europe 2012
Croatia 1.2 51 Europe Southern Europe 2012
Portugal 1.2 122 Europe Southern Europe 2012
Serbia 1.2 111 Europe Southern Europe 2012
Oman 1.1 34 Asia Western Asia 2011
Qatar 1.1 23 Asia Western Asia 2012
Australia 1.1 254 Oceania Australasia 2012
China 1.0 13,410 Asia Eastern Asia 2010
Czech Republic 1.0 105 Europe Eastern Europe 2012
United Kingdom 1.0 653 Europe Northern Europe 2011
France 1.0 665 Europe Western Europe 2012
Tonga 1.0 1 Oceania Polynesia 2012
South Korea 0.9 427 Asia Eastern Asia 2011
Italy 0.9 530 Europe Southern Europe 2012
Austria 0.9 77 Europe Western Europe 2012
Netherlands 0.9 145 Europe Western Europe 2012
New Zealand 0.9 41 Oceania Australasia 2012
Saudi Arabia 0.8 234 Asia Western Asia 2012
Denmark 0.8 47 Europe Northern Europe 2012
Spain 0.8 364 Europe Southern Europe 2012
Germany 0.8 662 Europe Western Europe 2011
Luxembourg 0.8 4 Europe Western Europe 2011
Algeria 0.7 280 Africa Northern Africa 2011
Macao 0.7 4 Asia Eastern Asia 2010
Sweden 0.7 68 Europe Northern Europe 2012
San Marino 0.7 x Europe Southern Europe 2012
Slovenia 0.7 14 Europe Southern Europe 2012
Indonesia 0.6 1,456 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2012
Switzerland 0.6 46 Europe Western Europe 2011
Bahrain 0.5 7 Asia Western Asia 2011
Hong Kong 0.4 27 Asia Eastern Asia 2012
Kuwait 0.4 12 Asia Western Asia 2012
French Polynesia (France) 0.4 1 Oceania Polynesia 2009
Japan 0.3 442 Asia Eastern Asia 2011
Iceland 0.3 1 Europe Northern Europe 2012
Singapore 0.2 11 Asia South-Eastern Asia 2012
Liechtenstein 0.0 0 Europe Western Europe 2012
Monaco 0.0 0 Europe Western Europe 2008

Stupidity of others is painful Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Colonel Colt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Yes, rights are more important than lives.
>
>
> Well yes, yes they are.
>
> If you give up your rights you might as well give
> up your life. Your rights are what stop people
> from taking/controlling your life.
>
> It's sad that people accept and preach the fact
> that rights mean nothing today and that we should
> just give them up.
>
> I'm sorry, but until the day comes where criminals
> and tyrants throw down their guns and turn
> themselves in, I won't even CONSIDER selling
> mine.
> You don't like it? Tough shit...

Says the guy who's undoubtedly all for restricting a woman's right to choose.

freud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Do they help prevent suicides, too?


They sure aren't the cause...



Suicides per 100,000 people per year
Both sexes
rank Country Both sexes Male
rank Male Female

1 Guyana (more info) 44.2 1 70.8 1 22.1
2 South Korea (more info) 28.9 5 41.7 5 18.0
3 Sri Lanka (more info) 28.8 3 46.4 7 12.8
4 Lithuania (more info) 28.2 2 51.0 29 8.4
5 Suriname 27.8 4 44.5 11 11.9
6 Mozambique 27.4 8 34.2 2 21.1
7 Tanzania 24.9 13 31.6 4 18.3
7 Nepal (more info) 24.9 17 30.1 3 20.0
9 Kazakhstan (more info) 23.8 6 40.6 21 9.3
10 Burundi 23.1 9 34.1 9 12.5
11 India (more info) 21.1 22 25.8 6 16.4
12 South Sudan 19.8 19 27.1 7 12.8
13 Turkmenistan 19.6 11 32.5 32 7.5
14 Russia (more info) 19.5 7 35.1 46 6.2
14 Uganda 19.5 20 26.9 10 12.3
16 Hungary 19.1 12 32.4 34 7.4
17 Japan (more info) 18.5 20 26.9 17 10.1
18 Belarus 18.3 10 32.7 44 6.4
19 Zimbabwe 18.1 18 27.2 18 9.7
20 Bhutan (more info) 17.8 32 23.1 13 11.2
21 Sudan 17.2 33 23.0 12 11.5
22 Comoros 16.9 29 24.0 15 10.3
23 Ukraine (more info) 16.8 16 30.3 55 5.3
24 Poland 16.6 15 30.5 98 3.8
24 Equatorial Guinea 16.6 27 24.1 27 8.6
26 Eritrea 16.3 22 25.8 24 8.7
27 Latvia 16.2 14 30.7 86 4.3
27 Kenya 16.2 26 24.4 29 8.4
29 Malawi 16.0 30 23.9 23 8.9
30 Zambia 15.7 39 20.8 14 10.8
31 Montenegro 15.3 25 24.7 44 6.4
32 Djibouti 15.1 38 20.9 20 9.5
33 Finland 14.8 34 22.2 32 7.5
34 Belgium 14.2 36 21.0 31 7.7
35 Iceland 14.0 36 21.0 40 6.7
36 Angola 13.8 41 20.7 35 7.3
37 Moldova 13.7 27 24.1 73 4.8
38 Estonia 13.6 24 24.9 98 3.8
38 El Salvador 13.6 31 23.5 53 5.7
40 Myanmar 13.1 60 16.5 15 10.3
41 Trinidad and Tobago 13.0 42 20.4 46 6.2
42 Czech Republic 12.5 35 21.5 97 3.9
43 Slovenia 12.4 39 20.8 84 4.4
43 Serbia 12.4 44 19.9 50 5.8
43 Somalia 12.4 54 18.1 39 6.8
43 Papua New Guinea 12.4 66 15.9 22 9.1
47 France (more info) 12.3 47 19.3 49 6.0
48 Chile 12.2 49 19.0 50 5.8
48 Bolivia 12.2 63 16.2 28 8.5
50 Uruguay 12.1 43 20.0 61 5.2
50 United States of America 12.1 46 19.4 61 5.2

^ Quit spamming.

US v World, not so grim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If more guns = more deaths, then why does the US
> with +300 million guns experience many, many times
> lower per capita intentional murder rates than
> most of the rest of the world where there are
> strict gun controls?

More guns = more GUN deaths, 'tard.

PS - Interestingly, the US has by far the highest murder rate in the industrialized world.

Please tell me how a gun really helps you? There"s not too many home invasions going on in ffx county unless I'm missing something. Why do you need guns?

Hypocrite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stupidity of others is painful Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Colonel Colt Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > Yes, rights are more important than lives.
> >
> >
> > Well yes, yes they are.
> >
> > If you give up your rights you might as well
> give
> > up your life. Your rights are what stop people
> > from taking/controlling your life.
> >
> > It's sad that people accept and preach the fact
> > that rights mean nothing today and that we
> should
> > just give them up.
> >
> > I'm sorry, but until the day comes where
> criminals
> > and tyrants throw down their guns and turn
> > themselves in, I won't even CONSIDER selling
> > mine.
> > You don't like it? Tough shit...
>
> Says the guy who's undoubtedly all for restricting
> a woman's right to choose.


Says the guy who's undoubtedly padding gun deaths stats with suicides. Isn't it the decision of the individual who is committing suicide whether s/he wants to live or die?

reporeport Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please tell me how a gun really helps you?
> There"s not too many home invasions going on in
> ffx county unless I'm missing something. Why do
> you need guns?


One is all you need....

cite this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Citation, please Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Atlanta Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers
> for
> > > Disease Control and Prevention found that
> > > Americans use guns to frighten away intruders
> > who
> > > are breaking into their homes about 498,000
> > times
> > > per year.
> >
> > Citation, please.
>
> I gave you the source and the year. You seriously
> can't look that up?
>
> Tell you what though. I've got the citation ready
> to go. Just admit that if that stat is true, that
> guns save lives.

Crickets.....

More GUN deaths, 'tard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> US v World, not so grim Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If more guns = more deaths, then why does the
> US
> > with +300 million guns experience many, many
> times
> > lower per capita intentional murder rates than
> > most of the rest of the world where there are
> > strict gun controls?
>
> More guns = more GUN deaths,
> 'tard.
>

That's idiotic. Of course there are more gun deaths. People simply substitute other methods to kill each other. And at far higher rates. Just like they readily substitute other methods in the case of suicide. You still end up with far higher death rates. i.e., if you magically made all of the guns go away, the US murder rate likely would not change much.


> PS - Interestingly, the US has by far the highest
> murder rate in the industrialized world.

So in other words, you want to cherry-pick what works for your argument. lol

Russia isn't "idustrialized?" The murder rate is 3X that of the US even with very limited legal gun ownership. Brazil? Plenty of others on that list. Basically what you want to compare are largely homogeneous white and Asian populations which tend to have lower rates of murder and violent crime to begin with independent of guns or gun controls.

2/3rds of gun deaths in the US aren't murder related to begin with. They are suicides primarily by middle-aged white males with long histories of alcohol and substance abuse. The bulk of the remaining 1/3 are young urban blacks killing each other with illegal guns. If you normalize the data to account for racial and ethnic differences, the stats for the rest of the US population looks about the same for the rest of the "industrialized world." Accidental shootings are a trivial blip in the stats at about 600-800/year and don't even make much of a difference vs many other much more common causes of accidental death.

US v World, not so grim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More GUN deaths, 'tard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > US v World, not so grim Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If more guns = more deaths, then why does the
> > US
> > > with +300 million guns experience many, many
> > times
> > > lower per capita intentional murder rates
> than
> > > most of the rest of the world where there are
> > > strict gun controls?
> >
> > More guns = more GUN
> deaths,
> > 'tard.
> >
>
> That's idiotic. Of course there are more gun
> deaths. People simply substitute other methods to
> kill each other. And at far higher rates. Just
> like they readily substitute other methods in the
> case of suicide. You still end up with far higher
> death rates. i.e., if you magically made all of
> the guns go away, the US murder rate likely would
> not change much.
>
>
> > PS - Interestingly, the US has by far the
> highest
> > murder rate in the industrialized world.
>
> So in other words, you want to cherry-pick what
> works for your argument. lol
>
> Russia isn't "idustrialized?" The murder rate is
> 3X that of the US even with very limited legal gun
> ownership. Brazil? Plenty of others on that
> list. Basically what you want to compare are
> largely homogeneous white and Asian populations
> which tend to have lower rates of murder and
> violent crime to begin with independent of guns or
> gun controls.
>
> 2/3rds of gun deaths in the US aren't murder
> related to begin with. They are suicides
> primarily by middle-aged white males with long
> histories of alcohol and substance abuse. The
> bulk of the remaining 1/3 are young urban blacks
> killing each other with illegal guns. If you
> normalize the data to account for racial and
> ethnic differences, the stats for the rest of the
> US population looks about the same for the rest of
> the "industrialized world." Accidental shootings
> are a trivial blip in the stats at about
> 600-800/year and don't even make much of a
> difference vs many other much more common causes
> of accidental death.

Yes, the relevant comparison is to countries with functioning governments and a modicum of respect for law and order. You can have Somalia; I prefer Germany.

More GUN deaths, 'tard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> More guns = more GUN deaths,
> 'tard.
>


Doesn't even work here. The numbers of guns has increased greatly while the firearm homicide rate has fallen. It's actually greater than shown here since the numbers of firearms have increased even more in recent years. Basically the same graph for accidental deaths. Suicides are about the same.

Lawrence Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, the relevant comparison is to countries with
> functioning governments and a modicum of respect
> for law and order. You can have Somalia; I prefer
> Germany.


So you're saying that the relevant comparison is to countries with relatively homogeneous white and Asian populations with very low numbers of blacks and Hispanics and lower violent crime rates to begin with to make your argument work. Racist. lol

Here, I'll make this easier for you... Go search for the series of UN reports (an independent, objective source) that are done on a regular basis re rates of murder and violent crime and non-war conflict across the world. That will school you on the primary factors which drive the numbers and which have very little to do with guns. They are mostly related to demographics (e.g., numbers of younger males in the population); levels of gang, drug, and other organized crime activity; ethnic/racial/tribal conflicts; relative wealthy populations in proximity to relative poor populations (e.g., where everyone is more equal whether more rich or more poor, there isn't as much robbery and resulting death, where they may be more segregated they don't come into contact as much for events to happen); etc., and a variety of other social and cultural factors.

As I said, account for the primary factors/groups which drive the gun homicide numbers in the US, primarily younger blacks associated with gang, drug, and other criminal activity in our second-tier urban areas (almost entirely using illegal guns), and our numbers look about the same or better than the equivalent populations of white Europeans that you want to compare us to, EVEN WITH us having thousands X more legal privately owned guns. Likewise, if you look at a more granular level to the areas and populations within various countries you want to compare where you have more of the same, their numbers are far higher EVEN WITH gun restrictions (which there as here make no difference to those using illegal guns).

Get yours while it's hot!
Attachments:

US v World, not so grim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you magically made all of
> the guns go away, the US murder rate likely would
> not change much.

That's complete bullshit. The presence of firearms dramatically increases instances of murder & suicide. Go look it up, I'll wait.

> > PS - Interestingly, the US has by far the
> highest
> > murder rate in the industrialized world.
>
> Russia isn't "idustrialized?" Brazil?

No.

Firearms increase murder rates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> US v World, not so grim Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you magically made all of
> > the guns go away, the US murder rate likely
> would
> > not change much.
>
> That's complete bullshit. The presence of firearms
> dramatically increases instances of murder &
> suicide. Go look it up, I'll wait.

Citation, please. We'll wait while you provide that for us. Thanks!

Firearms increase murder rates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> US v World, not so grim Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you magically made all of
> > the guns go away, the US murder rate likely
> would
> > not change much.
>
> That's complete bullshit. The presence of firearms
> dramatically increases instances of murder &
> suicide. Go look it up, I'll wait.

No it's not bullshit. I can't look it up because it doesn't exist. I just gave you several examples that undercut your entire argument.

As further evidence of that, after Australia passed it's increased restrictions on guns, which is often cited as a "success," guess where intentional homicides fell more over the same period of time? That would be here, with none of the same restrictions. Again, the reasons for that have little to do with guns.

>
> > > PS - Interestingly, the US has by far the
> > highest
> > > murder rate in the industrialized world.
> >
> > Russia isn't "idustrialized?" Brazil?
>
> No.


LOL. Of course not since they undercut your argument. How about Greenland? Bermuda, one of the wealthiest countries in the Western world in terms of per capital income and GDP? Both with relatively strong gun control, no right to own firearms, etc., yet murder rates that are 2X to +4X that of the US.

cite this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Citation, please Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Atlanta Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers
> for
> > > Disease Control and Prevention found that
> > > Americans use guns to frighten away intruders
> > who
> > > are breaking into their homes about 498,000
> > times
> > > per year.
> >
> > Citation, please.
>
> I gave you the source and the year. You seriously
> can't look that up?
>
> Tell you what though. I've got the citation ready
> to go. Just admit that if that stat is true, that
> guns save lives.


Still crickets.....

Why is that?

I'd rather be shot by a psycho than stabbed by one. Killers gonna kill... Might as well die quick.

cite this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Citation, please Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Atlanta Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers
> for
> > > Disease Control and Prevention found that
> > > Americans use guns to frighten away intruders
> > who
> > > are breaking into their homes about 498,000
> > times
> > > per year.
> >
> > Citation, please.
>
> I gave you the source and the year. You seriously
> can't look that up?
>
> Tell you what though. I've got the citation ready
> to go. Just admit that if that stat is true, that
> guns save lives.

Thanks for the offer, but no.

Hypothesis Fails Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lawrence Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Yes, the relevant comparison is to countries
> with
> > functioning governments and a modicum of
> respect
> > for law and order. You can have Somalia; I
> prefer
> > Germany.
>
>
> So you're saying that the relevant comparison is
> to countries with relatively homogeneous white and
> Asian populations with very low numbers of blacks
> and Hispanics and lower violent crime rates to
> begin with to make your argument work. Racist.
> lol
>
> Here, I'll make this easier for you... Go search
> for the series of UN reports (an independent,
> objective source) that are done on a regular basis
> re rates of murder and violent crime and non-war
> conflict across the world. That will school you
> on the primary factors which drive the numbers and
> which have very little to do with guns. They are
> mostly related to demographics (e.g., numbers of
> younger males in the population); levels of gang,
> drug, and other organized crime activity;
> ethnic/racial/tribal conflicts; relative wealthy
> populations in proximity to relative poor
> populations (e.g., where everyone is more equal
> whether more rich or more poor, there isn't as
> much robbery and resulting death, where they may
> be more segregated they don't come into contact as
> much for events to happen); etc., and a variety of
> other social and cultural factors.
>
> As I said, account for the primary factors/groups
> which drive the gun homicide numbers in the US,
> primarily younger blacks associated with gang,
> drug, and other criminal activity in our
> second-tier urban areas (almost entirely using
> illegal guns), and our numbers look about the same
> or better than the equivalent populations of white
> Europeans that you want to compare us to, EVEN
> WITH us having thousands X more legal privately
> owned guns. Likewise, if you look at a more
> granular level to the areas and populations within
> various countries you want to compare where you
> have more of the same, their numbers are far
> higher EVEN WITH gun restrictions (which there as
> here make no difference to those using illegal
> guns).

There are lots of illegal guns becasue the price of guns on the black market is so low. Why is it so low? Because the quantity of guns produced and sold legally is so high. Guns are resold or stolen and then enter the black market. Australia enacted tough gun control legislation after having about one mass shooting (> 4 deaths) per year over about 15 years. They have not had a mass shooting since. There is a direct effect of the gun control but also the indirect effect: the price of guns on the black market in Australia is astronomical. In the U.S., a black market gun is cheaper than a pair of sneakers. Every "illegal" gun started life as a legal gun.

One can not fairly compare "gun deaths" of other nations to that of the US.
We live in a different culture, have vastly different crime statistics.

In this day and age, you are not going to persuade gun owners to give up guns. They are just stocking up on them and ammo. Brazen crime and mob violence is seen too often and nobody wants to be a victim.

There is no negotiating with a mob. The only useful voice is the barrel of a gun ... even the police understand this simple concept.

hayek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DanKnows Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > US Deaths per 100,000 caused by motor vehicles
> -
> > 13.6
> > GB Deaths per 100,000 caused by motor vehicles
> -
> > 6.2
> >
> > Clearly all motor vehicles should be banned
>
> Only someone who does not understand the concept
> of cost-benefit analysis would think that was
> dispositive.


Ummm, there was no cost benefit analysis employed!!!!! So, disposit that!

Citation, please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cite this Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Citation, please Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Atlanta Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers
> > for
> > > > Disease Control and Prevention found that
> > > > Americans use guns to frighten away
> intruders
> > > who
> > > > are breaking into their homes about 498,000
> > > times
> > > > per year.
> > >
> > > Citation, please.
> >
> > I gave you the source and the year. You
> seriously
> > can't look that up?
> >
> > Tell you what though. I've got the citation
> ready
> > to go. Just admit that if that stat is true,
> that
> > guns save lives.
>
> Thanks for the offer, but no.

Why not? Because it doesn't fit the narrative that you've been spoon fed and regurgitate here? Why do you need the citation then?

Are you denying that guns potentially saved these victims lives?

You must not want the citation that bad. Too bad, I had it ready on my clipboard ready to paste.

not john lott Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are lots of illegal guns becasue the price
> of guns on the black market is so low. Why is it
> so low? Because the quantity of guns produced and
> sold legally is so high. Guns are resold or
> stolen and then enter the black market. Australia
> enacted tough gun control legislation after having
> about one mass shooting (> 4 deaths) per year over
> about 15 years. They have not had a mass shooting
> since. There is a direct effect of the gun
> control but also the indirect effect: the price of
> guns on the black market in Australia is
> astronomical. In the U.S., a black market gun is
> cheaper than a pair of sneakers. Every "illegal"
> gun started life as a legal gun.


There are plenty of illegal guns in Australia and no they're not particularly expensive. There are people making their own illicit guns in Australia. There are large smuggling rings bringing in guns. Beyond all of that the legal ownership of guns also has increased significantly since the 'ban' with, as here, not associated increase in firearms-associated deaths.

Mass shootings are a poor measure. They are so rare in the scheme of things to be effectively random events. How many mass shootings did they have before the ban? Exactly.

The more significant measures are to the vast bulk of overall murders and firearms-involved murder and violent crimes. Australia's laws had no statistically significant effect on either. As I said, our rates fell more over the same period of time after than theirs did with no similar restrictions. The only aspect which arguably may have been reduced was gun-involved suicides.

cite this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are you denying that guns potentially saved these
> victims lives?

Locking the door, screaming, running away, calling 911, swinging a baseball bat, etc. also have the potential to save victims' lives. What's your point?

Citation, please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cite this Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Are you denying that guns potentially saved
> these
> > victims lives?
>
> Locking the door, screaming, running away,

LoL. Criminals are oh so afraid of locked doors, screams and fleeing victims! Besides, if he is an intruder, it means he has intruded and locking the doors would only lock him in.

> calling
> 911,

Only minutes away when seconds matter!

> swinging a baseball bat, etc. also have the
> potential to save victims' lives.

Not as effectively.

> What's your
> point?

I asked you questions. You dodged them all including the one you attempted to answer here.

So, why aren't you interested I the citation anymore?

cite this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Criminals are oh so afraid of locked doors,
> screams and fleeing victims!

Yes, I know! Having a dog is even better!

> Only minutes away when seconds matter!

Not really.

> > swinging a baseball bat, etc. also have the
> > potential to save victims' lives.
>
> Not as effectively.

Certainly as effectively.

> So, why aren't you interested I the citation
> anymore?

I have no use for it.

Citation, please Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cite this Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Criminals are oh so afraid of locked doors,
> > screams and fleeing victims!
>
> Yes, I know! Having a dog is even better!

Depends on the dog. Any dog can be shot BTW.

> > Only minutes away when seconds matter!
>
> Not really.

Yes, really. Do you have a source for your assertion?

My sources tell me the nationwide average police response time to a 911 call is 10-11 minutes. In Detroit, that number jumps to 58 minutes. Agsin, the firearm has a much faster response time thereby saving lives! Amazing!

> > > swinging a baseball bat, etc. also have the
> > > potential to save victims' lives.
> >
> > Not as effectively.
>
> Certainly as effectively.

Really? If baseball bats are as effective as firearms, why aren't you calling for their regulation. If they're as effective, once you succeed in banning guns, people will resort to baseball bats with the Sam results, right? LOL.

> > So, why aren't you interested I the citation
> > anymore?
>
> I have no use for it.

Why not? What use dud you have for it yesterday?

Only fags hate guns. Scared little fags. Grow a pair.

10 years of Vietnam = 50,00 plus troops killed
10 Years of Iraq / Afghanistan = 30,000 plus troops killed
10 years in the USA = 300,000 plus civilians killed (by guns)
Who exactly are we at war with here at home ???
Join the army & go fight a war oversea's ... = less chance of getting shot ...

Oh yeah, & about half of those 300,000 gun deaths ... suicide - usually by the gun owner or spouse ... & most of those guns were purchased to to "keep the family safe!!" .. ironic isn't it !!!

Army Safe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 10 years of Vietnam = 50,00 plus troops killed
> 10 Years of Iraq / Afghanistan = 30,000 plus
> troops killed
> 10 years in the USA = 300,000 plus civilians
> killed (by guns)
> Who exactly are we at war with here at home ???
> Join the army & go fight a war oversea's ... =
> less chance of getting shot ...
>
> Oh yeah, & about half of those 300,000 gun deaths
> ... suicide - usually by the gun owner or spouse
> ... & most of those guns were purchased to to
> "keep the family safe!!" .. ironic isn't it !!!


More like 2/3rds. The vast majority being middle aged white guys with long-term substance abuse problems. If you want to stop that, then you need to deal with things other than guns. Controlling alcohol and oxy would be more effective.

Guns are useful for self defense but I want a Smooth Bore Cannon, That's a real Gun and the founders allowed the people to own them, and their still legal, the most powerful weapon of war that existed at the time the Bill of Rights was written.

With solid cannon balls or cement "loads" today instead of exploding shells which the founders still allowed back then.

So don't give us any crap about "sporting uses" magazine restrictions , "small arms" restrictions like "assault weapons" bla bla bla.

"We the People" could care less what the rest of the world does in regard to guns. Because..

"They don't have a Constitution, a Bill of Rights, Or a 2nd Amendment".

So don't mess with "We the People's" right to self defense Democrats.

^ Have another one - or twelve - 'Action'. Speaking of which, that's the last thing your getting. No wonder you need guns.

Struck a marijuana soaked liquored up late night brains nerve with the Cannon did I ?

Its true, the founders never banned them. The most powerful "Weapons Of War" "Only Designed to be on a Battlefield"

Sounds familiar does it not, as in coming out the mouths of Democrats with regard to "Assault Firearms" and "High Capacity Magazines"

As they lie and try to tell people that the 2nd amendment was only so people could hunt.

WOW! Found The Mother Lode!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2015 10:53AM by Double Action Jackson.
Attachments:

You have got to feel sorry for guntards. They truly are victims of their own fears. The gun itself only proves their fear, weakness and sense of inadequacy.
Instead of arguing with guntards it is best to try and help them. We lose several guntards each day to suicide and that is just sad.

The bad news for gun grabbers is that because of the wars we've been in there are lots of vets that like the shooting sports, and that's one of the reasons that certain guns, reloading components and ammo can be in short supply.

Oh WOW! I forgot about the "Worlds Greatest Gun Salesmen" Obama and the Democrats! LOL

>We lose several guntards each day to suicide and that is just sad.

It is indeed Anytime someone does that to family and friends

Now just wondering if they ever put that big net under the Golden Gate Bridge, you know in the Socialist Ultra Super Liberal City of San Francisco?? out on the "Left Coast"

Some libs in favor of the net say living there is like having a loaded .38 on the kitchen table. ??? WTF?? Libs !!
Attachments:

..
Attachments:

Bill Brady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..


You're stupid.

When I was a kid, you did cool outdoorsy things with the Dads, and cool indoorsy things with the Moms.

Except for Democrats. They were run just by their Moms. Their Dads were lisping faggots.

They grew up not allowed to have squirt guns, or play Cops and Robbers.

Real men, and real women, love guns, and aren't afraid to vote pro-gun.

I surely do. That's why I'll never vote for a Democrat.

^^^^
I vote Democratic because I saw through my gun-loving, Republican-voting father what motivates right-wingers: Fear, hatred, selfishness, and greed.

>Fear, hatred, selfishness, and greed.

I have heard that line.. Ya Ya Its the Democratic Party Platform.

Don't forget name calling, coming up with Nothing, High taxes, And lies lies lies just look at Hillary.

Sorry you who hate your father, Mine was a great one, he was not impressed with guns, considered them small arms and they are compared to a battleships 16X50's or a destroyers 5 inch 38's. He was US Navy. But he did give me a .22 rifle for Christmas in 1965 and took me to the Navy range on base and taught me how to safely use it.

That .22 was my families protector when he was out to sea months at a time.

IF THEY CAN'T TAKE A JOKE...I'M FUCKED!

Double Action Jackson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >Fear, hatred, selfishness, and greed.
>
> I have heard that line.. Ya Ya Its the Democratic
> Party Platform.
>
> Don't forget name calling, coming up with Nothing,
> High taxes, And lies lies lies just look at
> Hillary.
>
> Sorry you who hate your father, Mine was a great
> one, he was not impressed with guns, considered
> them small arms and they are compared to a
> battleships 16X50's or a destroyers 5 inch 38's.
> He was US Navy. But he did give me a .22 rifle for
> Christmas in 1965 and took me to the Navy range on
> base and taught me how to safely use it.
>
> That .22 was my families protector when he was out
> to sea months at a time. Until that time I shot my eye out.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Relax People! Sit Back. Pop some popcorn and enjoy the show!

OP should play with loaded guns more. OP should add to the statistics by shooting himself in the face!

I am sorry your parents made you play with your sister's hand-me-down barbies OP! I know you really wanted GiJoe.

hahaha

Republicans are stupid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^^^^
> I vote Democratic because I saw through my
> gun-loving, Republican-voting father what
> motivates right-wingers: Fear, hatred,
> selfishness, and greed.


My very large, predominantly white, conservative, Republican, Christian church has given millions of dollars (financial statements are readily available) to several of our preferred charities, mostly in Africa and Cuba. We have helped build hospitals and schools in both regions. Many church members, including myself, have participated in countless hours of mission trips to help build these facilities. The best thing is we have brought a number of sick kids back to the US for various medical treatments. We neither ask, nor will accept, anything in return. Oh, and there are thousands of churches just like us all over the United States. We don't make the news, though, because this stuff isn't exciting or ratings-grabbing.

We're not all full of "fear, hatred, selfishness, and greed."

I've never seen more selfish, self-serving people than the Democrats.

They have no morals, just fifty shades of grey.

They have no logic: every single prediction made by Climate Fraud Conspirators have proven false; Climate Fraud Conspirators are on record demonstrating fraud in their science; yet Democrats believe that the "science is over", and that man-made global climate change has been proven.

It's all a bunch of anti-capitalist, global socialist bullshit.

Vote Conservative this fall, and every year hear after!!!