The BOS is playing a dangerous game with teacher salaries. The county needs us a hell of a lot more then we need them.

Spend more on education now or spend much more on prisons later.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/fairfax-county-teachers-protest-budget-cuts-fight-for-promised-raises-113029.html


last thread got too long.

Fairfax teachers don't get raises because the school board and FCPS administration do not see them as being important.

What's important to them is the advancement of their careers and building empires. That's why you see Fabio Zuluaga going to Korea. That's why you see school board members running for board of supervisors.

Politics and empire building are expensive. That's where the thousands of dollars for each school with Boosterthon goes, that's where the $9,000 day for Eric Jensen goes, and Tara Brach gets a captive audience for the sale of her meditation books and CDs.

And no, none of these have anything to do with teaching. Teaching is just not a priority.

The teachers can cry all they want. They have lost.

DC and PG County are always hiring new teachers.

teachers have a point about this -- it's beyond fucked up that the school board gets a 60% raise but nobody can afford to pay teachers a decent salary.

just keep in mind that when you do the teach to the rule stuff, the only people you're actually hurting are the kids. the SB are a group of fundamentally unserious yahoos. they don't care what you do or don't do. try not to hurt the kids.

hiab Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> DC and PG County are always hiring new teachers.

There's a reason for that.

An interesting book: "Ain't Nobody Be Learnin' Nothin'", by Caleb Rossiter.

I am so tired of listening to the teachers complain. They need to look at the fact they do not work a 12 month schedule. Since 75% of the county funds go to the school system why don't we down size some of the adminstrative jobs, do more with less. Teachers yes you have a hard job but since you have selected your career path you should know how much you will be making.

Also anyone notice both the schools and BOS got raises this past year.

Elizabeth Schultz brought an amendment to give up their pay as Board of Ed members in an effort to say, "We're doing all we can to give this 1 % raise we promised you." The others voted NO.

Teaching is a terrible job and doing it well is really, really hard. There are few who are masters at it and to save those few, we have to do something and fast! It's going to come apart, people. Without competitive pay, great teachers, tough standards from admin on down, we may as well all homeschool and move away quickly.

Think about it. It would only take about 18 months and the whole place could come apart. Being at the top is great but staying there is work.

Hold the BOE accountable and keep FCPS a place where GREAT teachers work and are paid to do a fabulous job. The rest can work somewhere mediocre. You only get one shot at raising your kids.

Augiedog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am so tired of listening to the teachers
> complain. They need to look at the fact they do
> not work a 12 month schedule. Since 75% of the
> county funds go to the school system why don't we
> down size some of the adminstrative jobs, do more
> with less. Teachers yes you have a hard job but
> since you have selected your career path you
> should know how much you will be making.
>
> Also anyone notice both the schools and BOS got
> raises this past year.


As an FCPS teacher, I work a standard 2000 hour year. I do it in ten months.

I don't get paid for 2000 hours per year - I get paid for 1455 hours and am then forcibly laid off for two months. (It is impossible to do our jobs in the time allotted, by the way.)

Between ridiculous and onerous administrative paperwork, lax discipline, forced furloughs, too much testing, and comments from the general public (see above), I no longer recommend teaching as a viable profession the way I did 20 years ago.

The teachers are not the problem. (And, if you must know, I've voted a straight Republican ticket for at least the past 18 years.)

So are you saying the $80k you are making will not support you thru the two months of forcible layoff?


Then as a tenured teacher you would agree that the school system is the problem very top heavy with many unnecessary positions that suck the money out of the county.

How about pushing for year round school so we are not waiting the last 3-4 weeks of school after SOL have been completed. Why teach to the test requirements and not beyond.

Maybe stop segregating the AP students from the rest of society.

Yes you chose a profession that will never make 100k a year, because you do not work a full year. I have never said the teachers are the problem unless they are expecting a full year salary for 10 months of work. I don't see 10 months but more like 8 1/2 so I guess the other month and a half are training and development. If you are going to fight the 8 1/2 months then count you federal/state holidays, spring and winter breaks and snow days.

Augiedog, I know it might be hard, but try not to be such a righteous, holier than thou dickweed.

Sorry which part struck a nerve and I will expand on it.

Teachers work less than 39 weeks if they are on a 194 day contract. That translates to 9 months. Yes, most of them work very, very hard and more than their contracts. Yes, they deserve more money. But, facts are facts. There is a lot of money wasted in our system and residents are struggling to pay their taxes.
Students in affluent schools are in larger classes. So, their parents want to pay more taxes because they feel they are not getting what they are paying for. Students in poor schools are in small classes, and still not succeeding--so the school system wants to spend more money to educate them--and it is not working.

The answer is not more money. It is an issue of putting the money where it belongs. If the teachers want more money, then they need to be more vocal about the waste in the system. They need to let the community know what is happening. The people in Gatehouse are generating more work for the teachers--work that does not necessarily help the students.

Well said thank you. But I still do not think teachers should be making 80k+ a year unless we go to a 12 month school year.


I also feel like the untaxed undocumented drain on the social system issue should be resolved, one way or the other.

As someone with kids in FCPS for the last 13 years (and still do) - the teachers are not the problem with FCPS. It's the admin, the bureaucracy, the regulations, the testing, etc. Teachers are expected to do everything but teach. As a taxpayer I am of course keen to keep taxes low and the school running efficiently. But if anyone is going to be overpaid it might as well be the actual teachers. I hate how all these arguments over money always end up pitting taxpayers vs teachers. It should be taxpayers vs education bureaucracy.

idotsall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As someone with kids in FCPS for the last 13 years
> (and still do) - the teachers are not the problem
> with FCPS. It's the admin, the bureaucracy, the
> regulations, the testing, etc. Teachers are
> expected to do everything but teach. As a
> taxpayer I am of course keen to keep taxes low and
> the school running efficiently. But if anyone is
> going to be overpaid it might as well be the
> actual teachers. I hate how all these arguments
> over money always end up pitting taxpayers vs
> teachers. It should be taxpayers vs education
> bureaucracy.


The teachers need to speak up and tell what the real problem is. As long as they just lobby for more taxes instead of telling the truth about how the money is spent, it will continue to be the same story. Most parents have no idea of how much waste is going on in FCPS.

idotsall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As someone with kids in FCPS for the last 13 years
> (and still do) - the teachers are not the problem
> with FCPS. It's the admin, the bureaucracy, the
> regulations, the testing, etc. Teachers are
> expected to do everything but teach. As a
> taxpayer I am of course keen to keep taxes low and
> the school running efficiently. But if anyone is
> going to be overpaid it might as well be the
> actual teachers. I hate how all these arguments
> over money always end up pitting taxpayers vs
> teachers. It should be taxpayers vs education
> bureaucracy.

Hear, hear. I'm both a taxpayer and a teacher (and I'm not making $80K per year, by the way).

I don't advocate for higher property taxes; less spending on non-teaching positions and programs seems to me the way out of this mess.

Some try. But it's tough being a "whistle-blower." If you talk to teachers privately many many of them will tell you what they think - but I don't blame them for being reluctant to undercut their "bosses." The easy route is just to go along with the call for more $$$$.

http://www.connectionnewspapers.com/news/2014/feb/12/letter-fully-fund-our-schools/

For the last five years, however, my job has gotten harder and harder, and I have been paid less and less. We have faced federal, state, and local pressure to increase testing of our students, which inherently takes away from the time we actually spend educating them. Our enrollment in Fairfax continues to increase,

I do not intend to make this entirely an issue of pay.

Next year we face another round of increased testing and increased class sizes, which shrink the number of classes we teach at our base schools and send us out searching for more classes to teach around the county.

I taught a class with 38 students officially on the roster. Over 40 attempted to sign up, but rather than being split into two classes, several students were turned away, asked to take up study of another subject.

do the math Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There is a lot of
> money wasted in our system and residents are
> struggling to pay their taxes.

DAMN. this is a WHOLE 'nother thread.

Seems to be, the only people who bitch and moan about taxes in this county are those who live way beyond their means anyways.

A family of four CAN live quite comfortably in a 1800 sqft $400K house, and the meager taxes ( proportionately smaller than other localities and other states) won't break the bank.

However, if you CHOOSE to live in a McMansion because you feel it meets the needs of your lifestyle, you have no ground to whine about the proportionately larger taxes, so STFU.

Argle bargle! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> do the math Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There is a lot of
> > money wasted in our system and residents are
> > struggling to pay their taxes.
>
> DAMN. this is a WHOLE 'nother thread.
>
> Seems to be, the only people who bitch and moan
> about taxes in this county are those who live way
> beyond their means anyways.
>
> A family of four CAN live quite comfortably in a
> 1800 sqft $400K house, and the meager taxes (
> proportionately smaller than other localities and
> other states) won't break the bank.
>
> However, if you CHOOSE to live in a McMansion
> because you feel it meets the needs of your
> lifestyle, you have no ground to whine about the
> proportionately larger taxes, so STFU.

Who said anything about living in a McMansion? Why should we give the schools more money when they have poor stewardship of what they currently get?
Over four million to start school later? Really necessary? Millions spent on special programs, and, I suspect, millions spent on travel and conferences for administration.
Millions to transport AAP kids that could be taught in their base schools. REally necessary?
Millions to teach FLES? Kids aren't going to learn a foreign language twice a week.
Millions on "instructional coaches" to interpret data and advise teachers? Not necessary.
Millions extra for IB, when most people prefer AP anyway? Not necessary.
That is just a start.

"The teachers need to speak up and tell what the real problem is. As long as they just lobby for more taxes instead of telling the truth about how the money is spent, it will continue to be the same story. Most parents have no idea of how much waste is going on in FCPS."

When you are in a "right to work" state, this is not as easy as you think. Most teachers do not belong to the "association" and there is no real organizational structure for them.

"DAMN. this is a WHOLE 'nother thread.

Seems to be, the only people who bitch and moan about taxes in this county are those who live way beyond their means anyways.

A family of four CAN live quite comfortably in a 1800 sqft $400K house, and the meager taxes ( proportionately smaller than other localities and other states) won't break the bank.

However, if you CHOOSE to live in a McMansion because you feel it meets the needs of your lifestyle, you have no ground to whine about the proportionately larger taxes, so STFU."

How many people live in a McMansion in Fairfax County? I certainly don't and there are none in my area. I see lots of townhouses (tons) with four people living in them. I would venture to guess that less than 10% of the people in FFX County live in McMansions. And many don't have kids.

"However, if you CHOOSE to live in a McMansion because you feel it meets the needs of your lifestyle, you have no ground to whine about the proportionately larger taxes, so STFU."



If you want to see a lot of McMansions head down to Prince William and Stafford counties or over to Loudoun and Fauquier counties. Cause that's where they are b/c they are cheaper and the taxes are lower. Fairfax residents are not "living large" for the most part. In fact, a lot of them are on free and reduced lunch (which is a big part of the problem). You can only get so much blood out of a turnip.

Fairfax County median household income is $110,100.00. as of 2013, consistently one of the top 10 wealthiest counties in the country. I'd say ESPECIALLY since there are a lot of families living below the poverty level, that there are many more others that are doing quite fine, considering.

Bwa ha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Augiedog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am so tired of listening to the teachers
> > complain. They need to look at the fact they do
> > not work a 12 month schedule. Since 75% of the
> > county funds go to the school system why don't
> we
> > down size some of the adminstrative jobs, do
> more
> > with less. Teachers yes you have a hard job
> but
> > since you have selected your career path you
> > should know how much you will be making.
> >
> > Also anyone notice both the schools and BOS got
> > raises this past year.
>
>
> As an FCPS teacher, I work a standard 2000 hour
> year. I do it in ten months.
>
> I don't get paid for 2000 hours per year - I get
> paid for 1455 hours and am then forcibly laid off
> for two months. (It is impossible to do our jobs
> in the time allotted, by the way.)
>
> Between ridiculous and onerous administrative
> paperwork, lax discipline, forced furloughs, too
> much testing, and comments from the general public
> (see above), I no longer recommend teaching as a
> viable profession the way I did 20 years ago.
>
> The teachers are not the problem. (And, if you
> must know, I've voted a straight Republican ticket
> for at least the past 18 years.)


does 1455 days include or exclude 5 days spring break, 7 days of Christmas break, 11 holidays and 13 snow days? this amounts to 36 days of leave in addition to 60 days for July and August which equals 96 days of automatic leave. plus teachers are allocated extra leave for annual and sick days. how many of those do you get?

1455 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bwa ha Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Augiedog Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I am so tired of listening to the teachers
> > > complain. They need to look at the fact they
> do
> > > not work a 12 month schedule. Since 75% of
> the
> > > county funds go to the school system why
> don't
> > we
> > > down size some of the adminstrative jobs, do
> > more
> > > with less. Teachers yes you have a hard job
> > but
> > > since you have selected your career path you
> > > should know how much you will be making.
> > >
> > > Also anyone notice both the schools and BOS
> got
> > > raises this past year.
> >
> >
> > As an FCPS teacher, I work a standard 2000 hour
> > year. I do it in ten months.
> >
> > I don't get paid for 2000 hours per year - I
> get
> > paid for 1455 hours and am then forcibly laid
> off
> > for two months. (It is impossible to do our
> jobs
> > in the time allotted, by the way.)
> >
> > Between ridiculous and onerous administrative
> > paperwork, lax discipline, forced furloughs,
> too
> > much testing, and comments from the general
> public
> > (see above), I no longer recommend teaching as
> a
> > viable profession the way I did 20 years ago.
> >
> > The teachers are not the problem. (And, if you
> > must know, I've voted a straight Republican
> ticket
> > for at least the past 18 years.)
>
>
> does 1455 days include or exclude 5 days spring
> break, 7 days of Christmas break, 11 holidays and
> 13 snow days? this amounts to 36 days of leave in
> addition to 60 days for July and August which
> equals 96 days of automatic leave. plus teachers
> are allocated extra leave for annual and sick
> days. how many of those do you get?

Face palm! How many fucking times do we have to explain to you??? NONE OF OUR DAYS OFF ARE PAID HOLIDAYS! NONE -- ZERO. Spring break? Don't get paid for it. Winter break? Not a paid vacation. Summer -- Nope, don't get shit for summer. In fact, we get our last paycheck on June 30 and don't get another dime again until September 30. We go two months with NO PAYCHECK!!!!!

Jesus fucking Christ -- everyone keeps telling teachers that if we have it so bad, we should get another job in the real world. How about if you all think we've got it so great -- YOU become a teacher?! The insanely irrational jealousy and resentment displayed by all of you salary-bitchers is getting really old.

>
> Who said anything about living in a McMansion?
> Why should we give the schools more money when
> they have poor stewardship of what they currently
> get?
> Over four million to start school later? Really
> necessary? Millions spent on special programs,
> and, I suspect, millions spent on travel and
> conferences for administration.
> Millions to transport AAP kids that could be
> taught in their base schools. REally necessary?
> Millions to teach FLES? Kids aren't going to learn
> a foreign language twice a week.
> Millions on "instructional coaches" to interpret
> data and advise teachers? Not necessary.
> Millions extra for IB, when most people prefer AP
> anyway? Not necessary.
> That is just a start.


Teachers don't make any of these program decisions. All of these programs are in place because certain parent/public interest groups demanded them. They are ALL political responses to a very needy public, each and every one of them.

SLEEP? Thank your heroes, Meghan McLaughlin and Elizabeth Schultz, for that one. Practically none of the teachers supported it in the one survey we got.

AAP Centers? The school division actually wanted to eliminate them starting this past school year, BUT *parent groups* turned out in droves at town hall meetings and came to blows over it.

FLES? Read the surveys. Parents love it when their special cupcakes sing the ABC's in Chinese.

Now -- the instructional coaches, that's a complicated story. Blame that one on the massive accountability lobby that doesn't appear to be going away any time soon. The multi-million dollar education reform industry is now deeply entrenched. Truth be told, there was no need for an instructional coach until all of a sudden, the public started demanding transparent data so the public could mete out their punishments to low performing schools, all politics starting with No Child Left Behind. The coach positions were created to meet public demand for accountability. If the public would just back off and quit their bitching, maybe all these "reform" initiatives will disappear, but as evidenced by this forum, the public is not about to quit their bitching, and the wheel will keep turning.

So, please, don't hold teachers responsible for all the above garbage. Elected school boards and Central Office respond to parents and parents only, and enough parents want all of the above to keep them in place. You loud mouths here are in a minority in this county. Trust me, teachers are the sheep. The administrators try to make us believe we are part of a "collaborative," but we have zero impact on any large-scale or even school-based decision-making in this county. Those of us who care just shut our classroom doors and make it work for students as best we can with all the decks stacked against us.

And it doesn't help to come on here and read the spew coming out of people's mouths about teachers. We could be your best allies in exposing and changing the corruption that exists, but it's kind of hard to work on a common cause with such a nasty group of parents who debase teachers at every chance they get.

"And it doesn't help to come on here and read the spew coming out of people's mouths about teachers. We could be your best allies in exposing and changing the corruption that exists, but it's kind of hard to work on a common cause with such a nasty group of parents who debase teachers at every chance they get."


+1000

Blame Yourselves Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Who said anything about living in a McMansion?
> > Why should we give the schools more money when
> > they have poor stewardship of what they
> currently
> > get?
> > Over four million to start school later?
> Really
> > necessary? Millions spent on special programs,
> > and, I suspect, millions spent on travel and
> > conferences for administration.
> > Millions to transport AAP kids that could be
> > taught in their base schools. REally
> necessary?
> > Millions to teach FLES? Kids aren't going to
> learn
> > a foreign language twice a week.
> > Millions on "instructional coaches" to
> interpret
> > data and advise teachers? Not necessary.
> > Millions extra for IB, when most people prefer
> AP
> > anyway? Not necessary.
> > That is just a start.
>
>
> Teachers don't make any of these program
> decisions. All of these programs are in place
> because certain parent/public interest groups
> demanded them. They are ALL political responses to
> a very needy public, each and every one of them.
>
> SLEEP? Thank your heroes, Meghan McLaughlin and
> Elizabeth Schultz, for that one. Practically none
> of the teachers supported it in the one survey we
> got.
>
> AAP Centers? The school division actually wanted
> to eliminate them starting this past school year,
> BUT *parent groups* turned out in droves at town
> hall meetings and came to blows over it.
>
> FLES? Read the surveys. Parents love it when their
> special cupcakes sing the ABC's in Chinese.
>
> Now -- the instructional coaches, that's a
> complicated story. Blame that one on the massive
> accountability lobby that doesn't appear to be
> going away any time soon. The multi-million dollar
> education reform industry is now deeply
> entrenched. Truth be told, there was no need for
> an instructional coach until all of a sudden, the
> public started demanding transparent data so the
> public could mete out their punishments to low
> performing schools, all politics starting with No
> Child Left Behind. The coach positions were
> created to meet public demand for accountability.
> If the public would just back off and quit their
> bitching, maybe all these "reform" initiatives
> will disappear, but as evidenced by this forum,
> the public is not about to quit their bitching,
> and the wheel will keep turning.
>
> So, please, don't hold teachers responsible for
> all the above garbage. Elected school boards and
> Central Office respond to parents and parents
> only, and enough parents want all of the above to
> keep them in place. You loud mouths here are in a
> minority in this county. Trust me, teachers are
> the sheep. The administrators try to make us
> believe we are part of a "collaborative," but we
> have zero impact on any large-scale or even
> school-based decision-making in this county. Those
> of us who care just shut our classroom doors and
> make it work for students as best we can with all
> the decks stacked against us.
>
> And it doesn't help to come on here and read the
> spew coming out of people's mouths about teachers.
> We could be your best allies in exposing and
> changing the corruption that exists, but it's kind
> of hard to work on a common cause with such a
> nasty group of parents who debase teachers at
> every chance they get.

I don't blame the teachers--but they need to speak up.

As far as SLEEP, that was not Schultz--it was Sandy Evans' main reason for getting on the SB.

ENOUGH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1455 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bwa ha Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Augiedog Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I am so tired of listening to the teachers
> > > > complain. They need to look at the fact
> they
> > do
> > > > not work a 12 month schedule. Since 75% of
> > the
> > > > county funds go to the school system why
> > don't
> > > we
> > > > down size some of the adminstrative jobs,
> do
> > > more
> > > > with less. Teachers yes you have a hard
> job
> > > but
> > > > since you have selected your career path
> you
> > > > should know how much you will be making.
> > > >
> > > > Also anyone notice both the schools and BOS
> > got
> > > > raises this past year.
> > >
> > >
> > > As an FCPS teacher, I work a standard 2000
> hour
> > > year. I do it in ten months.
> > >
> > > I don't get paid for 2000 hours per year - I
> > get
> > > paid for 1455 hours and am then forcibly laid
> > off
> > > for two months. (It is impossible to do our
> > jobs
> > > in the time allotted, by the way.)
> > >
> > > Between ridiculous and onerous administrative
> > > paperwork, lax discipline, forced furloughs,
> > too
> > > much testing, and comments from the general
> > public
> > > (see above), I no longer recommend teaching
> as
> > a
> > > viable profession the way I did 20 years ago.
> > >
> > > The teachers are not the problem. (And, if
> you
> > > must know, I've voted a straight Republican
> > ticket
> > > for at least the past 18 years.)
> >
> >
> > does 1455 days include or exclude 5 days spring
> > break, 7 days of Christmas break, 11 holidays
> and
> > 13 snow days? this amounts to 36 days of leave
> in
> > addition to 60 days for July and August which
> > equals 96 days of automatic leave. plus
> teachers
> > are allocated extra leave for annual and sick
> > days. how many of those do you get?
>
> Face palm! How many fucking times do we have to
> explain to you??? NONE OF OUR DAYS OFF ARE PAID
> HOLIDAYS! NONE -- ZERO. Spring break? Don't get
> paid for it. Winter break? Not a paid vacation.
> Summer -- Nope, don't get shit for summer. In
> fact, we get our last paycheck on June 30 and
> don't get another dime again until September 30.
> We go two months with NO PAYCHECK!!!!!
>
> Jesus fucking Christ -- everyone keeps telling
> teachers that if we have it so bad, we should get
> another job in the real world. How about if you
> all think we've got it so great -- YOU become a
> teacher?! The insanely irrational jealousy and
> resentment displayed by all of you salary-bitchers
> is getting really old.

What is so funny here is that there are plenty of part time jobs within the school system if you feel the need to get more income over the summer (and weekends),or work cutting lawns, whatever) After working at a large school in a non teaching capacity, most teachers, particularly the younger ones always told me, if it were not for the summers off, they would get find another job. Oh and this "forced days off" has been going on in Fairfax for at least 60 years, so unless you are still teaching at 85, it wasn't a big surprise when you applied here.

If I were a teacher and found out my principal hired some overpriced consultant to teach me how to teach, I'd raise hell.

This is why the teachers don't get raises. The principals and administrators get bedazzled by fancy advertising and sign on the dotted line. No one bothers to check these people's backgrounds or anything.

The consultant shows up, talks for a few days, leaves, gets paid. Then, when the teacher asks for a raise, the answer is "sorry we had to hire consultants to improve your teaching, no more money for raises" and that ends that.

A bunch of negative comments on the Buck Institute, plus an expose of how "project based learning" has been around since the 60s (Buck did NOT invent it) might get some attention.

whaa , whaa, whaa Wrote:

>
> What is so funny here is that there are plenty of
> part time jobs within the school system if you
> feel the need to get more income over the summer
> (and weekends),or work cutting lawns, whatever)
> After working at a large school in a non teaching
> capacity, most teachers, particularly the younger
> ones always told me, if it were not for the
> summers off, they would get find another job. Oh
> and this "forced days off" has been going on in
> Fairfax for at least 60 years, so unless you are
> still teaching at 85, it wasn't a big surprise
> when you applied here.


Did you read my post? Did you see me crying once in it about not making enough money to live? NO -- because that was not my point! My point was to ask people to separate out their bitching about salaries from their bitching about unpaid vacations. They are two separate issues, neither of which teachers have any control over. You're right, the contract is what it's been forever, and we continue to sign it because we love to teach kids and we know it's an important public service.

Truth be known, I do take on extra jobs (plural), both during the school year and the summer. I don't lift one finger toward school work once I leave the building, because I have other employment obligations elsewhere. Because of those extra employment obligation, I also don't get my papers graded at the snap of your child's fingers, but as far as I'm concerned, your child can "whaaa whaaa" as loud as she wants about it because her mommy thinks I should just get another job instead of supporting my request for a modest cost-of-living raise.

Paying me for 7.5 hours of work for 194 days of the year? Then that's all you get.

ENOUGH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> whaa , whaa, whaa Wrote:
>
> >
> > What is so funny here is that there are plenty
> of
> > part time jobs within the school system if you
> > feel the need to get more income over the
> summer
> > (and weekends),or work cutting lawns, whatever)
> > After working at a large school in a non
> teaching
> > capacity, most teachers, particularly the
> younger
> > ones always told me, if it were not for the
> > summers off, they would get find another job.
> Oh
> > and this "forced days off" has been going on in
> > Fairfax for at least 60 years, so unless you
> are
> > still teaching at 85, it wasn't a big surprise
> > when you applied here.
>
>
> Did you read my post? Did you see me crying once
> in it about not making enough money to live? NO --
> because that was not my point! My point was to ask
> people to separate out their bitching about
> salaries from their bitching about unpaid
> vacations. They are two separate issues, neither
> of which teachers have any control over. You're
> right, the contract is what it's been forever, and
> we continue to sign it because we love to teach
> kids and we know it's an important public
> service.
>
> Truth be known, I do take on extra jobs (plural),
> both during the school year and the summer. I
> don't lift one finger toward school work once I
> leave the building, because I have other
> employment obligations elsewhere. Because of those
> extra employment obligation, I also don't get my
> papers graded at the snap of your child's fingers,
> but as far as I'm concerned, your child can "whaaa
> whaaa" as loud as she wants about it because her
> mommy thinks I should just get another job instead
> of supporting my request for a modest
> cost-of-living raise.
>
> Paying me for 7.5 hours of work for 194 days of
> the year? Then that's all you get.

And, that is all you are worth--obviously, not even that much.

I was a classroom teacher and I put in lots of extra effort. Sure, more pay is deserved--especially for those who work under very difficult circumstances--as I did for several years.
The only teachers I know who worked as little as you say you do were not classroom teachers. They were specialists. Some of them worked hard, too--but not all.
Somehow, I don't think it is likely that you would work more even if paid more.

"Truth be known, I do take on extra jobs (plural), both during the school year and the summer. I don't lift one finger toward school work once I leave the building, because I have other employment obligations elsewhere. Because of those extra employment obligation, I also don't get my papers graded at the snap of your child's fingers, but as far as I'm concerned, your child can "whaaa whaaa" as loud as she wants about it because her mommy thinks I should just get another job instead of supporting my request for a modest cost-of-living raise."

In countries like Mexico, all of the teachers have second jobs (all of the time). But, that said, most of the parents who really want their kids to be educated send them to private schools. Teachers have to confront the globalized economy as well I guess.

teachers need to raise hell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If I were a teacher and found out my principal
> hired some overpriced consultant to teach me how
> to teach, I'd raise hell.
>
> This is why the teachers don't get raises. The
> principals and administrators get bedazzled by
> fancy advertising and sign on the dotted line.

Some of us do raise hell. We are then labeled as negative and unprofessional, and depending on the principal, both our evaluations and our working conditions suffer. I worked at one FCPS school where I was constantly told that I must not care about children if I didn't want to comply with all this newfangled nonsense tossed about regarding "collaborative learning teams" and data-tracking and standards-based curriculums. I was once told by a group of instructional coaches that my students didn't have to actually read a book to understand plot structure -- they could just read a Spark Notes version to understand how the plot worked. No lie. It really happened. That was the day I knew we were doomed if I didn't shout from the rooftops, never mind at faculty meetings.

While you are checking out consultant contracts -- you seem to be good at this -- look up what the county pays a company called Solution Tree (Rick duFour and friends), including the conference junkets (Atlanta and Las Vegas being the big cities). If you ask me, those guys are the REAL CULPRITS. What Boosterthon sells pales in comparison to these crooks. They're screwing up not only Fairfax County, but the entire frigging nation. They are the leading salesmen of "If your teachers don't comply, fire them" and "the only thing that matters are the standards and the data." Hate those people, I really do.

been there, done that Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ENOUGH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > whaa , whaa, whaa Wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > What is so funny here is that there are
> plenty
> > of
> > > part time jobs within the school system if
> you
> > > feel the need to get more income over the
> > summer
> > > (and weekends),or work cutting lawns,
> whatever)
> > > After working at a large school in a non
> > teaching
> > > capacity, most teachers, particularly the
> > younger
> > > ones always told me, if it were not for the
> > > summers off, they would get find another job.
> > Oh
> > > and this "forced days off" has been going on
> in
> > > Fairfax for at least 60 years, so unless you
> > are
> > > still teaching at 85, it wasn't a big
> surprise
> > > when you applied here.
> >
> >
> > Did you read my post? Did you see me crying
> once
> > in it about not making enough money to live? NO
> --
> > because that was not my point! My point was to
> ask
> > people to separate out their bitching about
> > salaries from their bitching about unpaid
> > vacations. They are two separate issues,
> neither
> > of which teachers have any control over. You're
> > right, the contract is what it's been forever,
> and
> > we continue to sign it because we love to teach
> > kids and we know it's an important public
> > service.
> >
> > Truth be known, I do take on extra jobs
> (plural),
> > both during the school year and the summer. I
> > don't lift one finger toward school work once I
> > leave the building, because I have other
> > employment obligations elsewhere. Because of
> those
> > extra employment obligation, I also don't get
> my
> > papers graded at the snap of your child's
> fingers,
> > but as far as I'm concerned, your child can
> "whaaa
> > whaaa" as loud as she wants about it because
> her
> > mommy thinks I should just get another job
> instead
> > of supporting my request for a modest
> > cost-of-living raise.
> >
> > Paying me for 7.5 hours of work for 194 days of
> > the year? Then that's all you get.
>
> And, that is all you are worth--obviously, not
> even that much.
>
> I was a classroom teacher and I put in lots of
> extra effort. Sure, more pay is
> deserved--especially for those who work under very
> difficult circumstances--as I did for several
> years.
> The only teachers I know who worked as little as
> you say you do were not classroom teachers. They
> were specialists. Some of them worked hard,
> too--but not all.
> Somehow, I don't think it is likely that you would
> work more even if paid more.

Funny thing is (as you like to say), when my results are compared to other teachers in my department, I produce the highest scores on all measures. It's a big freaking MYTH that teachers have to labor 18 hours a day to get results. If you are good at what you do when you are in the classroom with kids, none of the extra bells and whistles matter. You teach them what they need to know, you give them feedback WHILE they are learning it (not after), and you run a tight ship while doing it.

I get no glory and seek none, unlike other teachers who constantly self-promote and whine about their labors (sounds like you were one of those before you quit). But when I look at their results, I snicker under my breath because their extra special efforts reap no extra special results. I've even been in leadership positions but quit them because of the very bullshit nature of this expectation.

That is what's wrong in Fairfax -- everyone sits in meetings having endless discussions about how to fix it. But honestly, when it comes down to it, teaching is not hard! If you know your stuff, if you know how to communicate it, and if you know how to assess it without breaking your back, your students achieve. In 7.5 hours a day for 194 days a year. I've been doing it for 21 years and my students have come back from top schools to thank me for being their only teacher who got them ready for college. I didn't get that by playing learning games with them and throwing a computer screen in front of their faces so they don't have to think for themselves. I got that by making sure every minute of the day counted. I feel no guilt for that.

Good try, though. I see you are intent on making sure every teacher feels like shit. Not gonna work with me.

Agreeing with the above. I taught for over 20 years, did my job, and made sure, as best I could, that the students did theirs, and found that the less educational bullshit I bought into, the better everything was. Always good results. Students and parents requesting my class. Let the ladies sit around in their collaborative meetings and bitch and whine. Just communicate to the students what they need to know, practice it as possible, then evaluate. Like they say in West Virginia, it ain't rocket surgery. We are prisoners of the educational industrial complex. No money to be made in just keeping it simple, stupid. We have to change, innovate, buy lots of new stuff, new systems, etc., etc. That's where the money goes.

ENOUGH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> been there, done that Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ENOUGH Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > whaa , whaa, whaa Wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What is so funny here is that there are
> > plenty
> > > of
> > > > part time jobs within the school system if
> > you
> > > > feel the need to get more income over the
> > > summer
> > > > (and weekends),or work cutting lawns,
> > whatever)
> > > > After working at a large school in a non
> > > teaching
> > > > capacity, most teachers, particularly the
> > > younger
> > > > ones always told me, if it were not for the
> > > > summers off, they would get find another
> job.
> > > Oh
> > > > and this "forced days off" has been going
> on
> > in
> > > > Fairfax for at least 60 years, so unless
> you
> > > are
> > > > still teaching at 85, it wasn't a big
> > surprise
> > > > when you applied here.
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you read my post? Did you see me crying
> > once
> > > in it about not making enough money to live?
> NO
> > --
> > > because that was not my point! My point was
> to
> > ask
> > > people to separate out their bitching about
> > > salaries from their bitching about unpaid
> > > vacations. They are two separate issues,
> > neither
> > > of which teachers have any control over.
> You're
> > > right, the contract is what it's been
> forever,
> > and
> > > we continue to sign it because we love to
> teach
> > > kids and we know it's an important public
> > > service.
> > >
> > > Truth be known, I do take on extra jobs
> > (plural),
> > > both during the school year and the summer. I
> > > don't lift one finger toward school work once
> I
> > > leave the building, because I have other
> > > employment obligations elsewhere. Because of
> > those
> > > extra employment obligation, I also don't get
> > my
> > > papers graded at the snap of your child's
> > fingers,
> > > but as far as I'm concerned, your child can
> > "whaaa
> > > whaaa" as loud as she wants about it because
> > her
> > > mommy thinks I should just get another job
> > instead
> > > of supporting my request for a modest
> > > cost-of-living raise.
> > >
> > > Paying me for 7.5 hours of work for 194 days
> of
> > > the year? Then that's all you get.
> >
> > And, that is all you are worth--obviously, not
> > even that much.
> >
> > I was a classroom teacher and I put in lots of
> > extra effort. Sure, more pay is
> > deserved--especially for those who work under
> very
> > difficult circumstances--as I did for several
> > years.
> > The only teachers I know who worked as little
> as
> > you say you do were not classroom teachers.
> They
> > were specialists. Some of them worked hard,
> > too--but not all.
> > Somehow, I don't think it is likely that you
> would
> > work more even if paid more.
>
> Funny thing is (as you like to say), when my
> results are compared to other teachers in my
> department, I produce the highest scores on all
> measures. It's a big freaking MYTH that teachers
> have to labor 18 hours a day to get results. If
> you are good at what you do when you are in the
> classroom with kids, none of the extra bells and
> whistles matter. You teach them what they need to
> know, you give them feedback WHILE they are
> learning it (not after), and you run a tight ship
> while doing it.
>
> I get no glory and seek none, unlike other
> teachers who constantly self-promote and whine
> about their labors (sounds like you were one of
> those before you quit). But when I look at their
> results, I snicker under my breath because their
> extra special efforts reap no extra special
> results. I've even been in leadership positions
> but quit them because of the very bullshit nature
> of this expectation.
>
> That is what's wrong in Fairfax -- everyone sits
> in meetings having endless discussions about how
> to fix it. But honestly, when it comes down to it,
> teaching is not hard! If you know your stuff, if
> you know how to communicate it, and if you know
> how to assess it without breaking your back, your
> students achieve. In 7.5 hours a day for 194 days
> a year. I've been doing it for 21 years and my
> students have come back from top schools to thank
> me for being their only teacher who got them ready
> for college. I didn't get that by playing learning
> games with them and throwing a computer screen in
> front of their faces so they don't have to think
> for themselves. I got that by making sure every
> minute of the day counted. I feel no guilt for
> that.
>
> Good try, though. I see you are intent on making
> sure every teacher feels like shit. Not gonna work
> with me.

Now, I see. You are not teaching elementary school and don't have to deal with SOLs. Either that, or you are teaching a class with smarter kids.

> Now, I see. You are not teaching elementary
> school and don't have to deal with SOLs. Either
> that, or you are teaching a class with smarter
> kids.

Now, I see. You are a former elementary teacher who quit once you had babies, and you're still pissed off that you spent all those extra hours for your students to fail the SOLs. Either that, or you're just not that smart.

Augiedog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So are you saying the $80k you are making will not
> support you thru the two months of forcible
> layoff?
>
>
> Then as a tenured teacher you would agree that the
> school system is the problem very top heavy with
> many unnecessary positions that suck the money out
> of the county.
>
> How about pushing for year round school so we are
> not waiting the last 3-4 weeks of school after SOL
> have been completed. Why teach to the test
> requirements and not beyond.
>
> Maybe stop segregating the AP students from the
> rest of society.
>
> Yes you chose a profession that will never make
> 100k a year, because you do not work a full year.
> I have never said the teachers are the problem
> unless they are expecting a full year salary for
> 10 months of work. I don't see 10 months but more
> like 8 1/2 so I guess the other month and a half
> are training and development. If you are going to
> fight the 8 1/2 months then count you
> federal/state holidays, spring and winter breaks
> and snow days.

I'm just curious: How do you know the teacher who posted is making $80k?

1455 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> does 1455 days include or exclude 5 days spring
> break, 7 days of Christmas break, 11 holidays and
> 13 snow days? this amounts to 36 days of leave in
> addition to 60 days for July and August which
> equals 96 days of automatic leave. plus teachers
> are allocated extra leave for annual and sick
> days. how many of those do you get?

You mean 1455 hours.

You sound like most people work 365 days a year. I'm not a teacher, but between July and August I have 18 days off. They are weekends. You are including those days in that teacher's 60.

My paid vacation time increases with years of service. Right now I get about 8 holidays, 17 paid vacation days, and 10 sick leave days. I don't typically use the sick days, but between vacation and holidays it amounts to 5 weeks. Not that unusual. I figure, on average, I work a 230 day year.

once more Wrote:
>
> As far as SLEEP, that was not Schultz--it was
> Sandy Evans' main reason for getting on the SB.


Revisionist history -- the resolution for later start times passed 11-1. Kathy Smith was the only board member who voted against it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/fairfax-county-high-schools-to-push-back-start-times-next-fall/2014/10/24/fecd6dd0-5b27-11e4-8264-deed989ae9a2_story.html

Based on her vote, Elizabeth Schultz does, in fact, support SLEEP. Sandy Evans may have specifically run with that on her platform, but the whole wave of new board members came in four years ago with the SLEEP coalition behind them. Then they rammed it through as soon as they hired a new superintendent who does not wish to have the same adversarial relationship as Dale did. Garza picks her battles, and SLEEP is not one of them. Teacher compensation is -- and that's why she's going head to head with the BOS about the transfer.

FACTS PLEASE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> once more Wrote:
> >
> > As far as SLEEP, that was not Schultz--it was
> > Sandy Evans' main reason for getting on the SB.
>
>
> Revisionist history -- the resolution for later
> start times passed 11-1. Kathy Smith was the only
> board member who voted against it.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/fair
> fax-county-high-schools-to-push-back-start-times-n
> ext-fall/2014/10/24/fecd6dd0-5b27-11e4-8264-deed98
> 9ae9a2_story.html
>
> Based on her vote, Elizabeth Schultz does, in
> fact, support SLEEP. Sandy Evans may have
> specifically run with that on her platform, but
> the whole wave of new board members came in four
> years ago with the SLEEP coalition behind them.
> Then they rammed it through as soon as they hired
> a new superintendent who does not wish to have the
> same adversarial relationship as Dale did. Garza
> picks her battles, and SLEEP is not one of them.
> Teacher compensation is -- and that's why she's
> going head to head with the BOS about the
> transfer.

PP said:
"Teachers don't make any of these program decisions. All of these programs are in place because certain parent/public interest groups demanded them. They are ALL political responses to a very needy public, each and every one of them.

SLEEP? Thank your heroes, Meghan McLaughlin and Elizabeth Schultz, for that one. Practically none of the teachers supported it in the one survey we got."

POINT here? You implied Schultz and McLaughlin were the "drivers" of SLEEP. It was not Schultz and McLaughlin--it was EVANS and McLaughlin. They ran on the platform of SLEEP. Yes, everyone but Kathy voted for it--and Kathy would have, too--but she gets big bucks from some teachers at Chantilly and they were probably against it. Either that, or she was gearing up for her Supervisor race and knew how unpopular it was in her community.
It's the only vote Kathy ever made bucking the Board that I can recall.

Ok so what is the per hour rate average for a teacher, for the 194 working days.

http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/virginia/teacher-salary-in-fairfax-county-public-schools/

Funny how no one will say a number.

http://www.fcps.edu/hr/salary/pdf/fy15/FY15Nov194dayTeacher.pdf

Are we looking for an annual amount or a dollar an hour amount for the short year they work.

Augiedog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok so what is the per hour rate average for a
> teacher, for the 194 working days.
>
> http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/virginia/teacher-
> salary-in-fairfax-county-public-schools/
>
> Funny how no one will say a number.
>
> http://www.fcps.edu/hr/salary/pdf/fy15/FY15Nov194d
> ayTeacher.pdf
>
> Are we looking for an annual amount or a dollar an
> hour amount for the short year they work.

I teach, and will make $70,000 this year. I've been teaching for 20 years (not all in Fairfax County), have a master's degree, and work about 60 hours per week to fulfill my contract obligations.

My school year hours exceed 2000, but we can use that for the math. I make about $35 per hour. That's with six years of post-secondary education.

$35 per hour.

There's a number.

Mmm hmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Augiedog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ok so what is the per hour rate average for a
> > teacher, for the 194 working days.
> >
> >
> http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/virginia/teacher-
>
> > salary-in-fairfax-county-public-schools/
> >
> > Funny how no one will say a number.
> >
> >
> http://www.fcps.edu/hr/salary/pdf/fy15/FY15Nov194d
>
> > ayTeacher.pdf
> >
> > Are we looking for an annual amount or a dollar
> an
> > hour amount for the short year they work.
>
> I teach, and will make $70,000 this year. I've
> been teaching for 20 years (not all in Fairfax
> County), have a master's degree, and work about 60
> hours per week to fulfill my contract
> obligations.
>
> My school year hours exceed 2000, but we can use
> that for the math. I make about $35 per hour.
> That's with six years of post-secondary education.
>
>
> $35 per hour.
>
> There's a number.

Impressive. 6 days per week, 10 hours per day. 8-6, Monday through Saturday without a lunch hour. Wow. That's a lot. Maybe you split Saturday and Sunday into two five hour days? Or, maybe 12 hours per day, five days per week? Really? That's double the time you spend teaching.

Well, did you ever take a class in time management? I taught for years. I worked lots of extra hours, and, occasionally may have worked a sixty hour week--but week in, week out? NO.


Be sure and add your very generous benefits to that $35/hour.

time management Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mmm hmm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Augiedog Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Ok so what is the per hour rate average for a
> > > teacher, for the 194 working days.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/virginia/teacher-
>
> >
> > > salary-in-fairfax-county-public-schools/
> > >
> > > Funny how no one will say a number.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.fcps.edu/hr/salary/pdf/fy15/FY15Nov194d
>
> >
> > > ayTeacher.pdf
> > >
> > > Are we looking for an annual amount or a
> dollar
> > an
> > > hour amount for the short year they work.
> >
> > I teach, and will make $70,000 this year. I've
> > been teaching for 20 years (not all in Fairfax
> > County), have a master's degree, and work about
> 60
> > hours per week to fulfill my contract
> > obligations.
> >
> > My school year hours exceed 2000, but we can
> use
> > that for the math. I make about $35 per hour.
> > That's with six years of post-secondary
> education.
> >
> >
> > $35 per hour.
> >
> > There's a number.
>
> Impressive. 6 days per week, 10 hours per day.
> 8-6, Monday through Saturday without a lunch hour.
> Wow. That's a lot. Maybe you split Saturday and
> Sunday into two five hour days? Or, maybe 12 hours
> per day, five days per week? Really? That's
> double the time you spend teaching.
>
> Well, did you ever take a class in time
> management? I taught for years. I worked lots of
> extra hours, and, occasionally may have worked a
> sixty hour week--but week in, week out? NO.
>
>
> Be sure and add your very generous benefits to
> that $35/hour.

I'm living it, and I have excellent time-management skills, thank you.

Those benefits aren't so generous, by the way.

"Those benefits aren't so generous, by the way."

Those benefits that are not so "generous" bring the average cost per teacher to $100,000. Sorry you are not getting your share.