On March 29 my car was struck by a tow truck that was attempting to tow a car in the parking lot outside of my place of work. I did not personally witness it- someone else who also had their car struck saw it and took the tow truck drivers information and passed it on to me.

I called the place that evening and was asked to take my car to an auto body shop in Sterling that they do business with. I'm in Chantilly and everything I do is in downtown fairfax/oakton, so it isn't exactly convenient for me to drive there.

I did get the estimate that Friday (April 1) and it was for almost $600. I dropped it off at their office and left my phone number. Nobody ever got back to me.

I have been calling and calling over the past two months to try and get this taken care of, and nobody from the business returned my calls.

Today I drove up to Sterling and dropped another copy of the estimate off. I finally was able to talk to the guy in charge, and he offered me two choices: either I could have my car fixed and then bring him the bill, or he would pay me 1/2 the estimate in cash because "he wouldn't be able to be sure I'd get the car fixed." He acted like I had never been in touch with them when I was calling every few days and leaving messages for him.

What I want is for the company to pay me the estimate in cash. My options as I see them are to file a complaint through the Fairfax County Consumer Protection Division which might result in arbitration, go through small claims court, or put it through my insurance company.

I have very high deductibles on my insurance, and I don't want my rates to be affected by this- I'm not sure if the rates would be, or if the insurance company would go after the towing company for the money.

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? How about the lawyer types that hang on here?

Definitely call your insurance company, the tow truck company is required to have insurance. Or the police, an accident occured.
Do you have the name and number of the witness?

Your insurance company should subrogate for you.

If the guy is worried you won't get the car fixed, will he settle for getting directly billed for the damage? That way he doesn't shell out too much cash and you get it fixed.

Plus I think small claims court may be the answer as long as your witnesses will agree to testify for you.

Call the police, it's called hit and run......or at least leaving the scene of an accident.

ps: if you don't want to deal w/ the cops, and their insurance company won't deal with it..have a lawyer call.

worst case scenario just go get your 600 dollars back the hard way.

It's been nearly two months so I would waste no time contacting the insurance company and the police. This guy is fucking with you, something these shady towing companies do all the time. It's almost a criminal organization. I have heard so many stories of these companies that I'm in awe that they are not scrutinized more by the community.

Whether you have the car fixed or not is none of his business: he is liable under law to pay for 100% of the assessed damage. Usually the median of three estimates is what insurance companies settle for, so go to expensive shops for your estimates.

The only thing you have going against you is the lapsed time and any more time you put off contacting your insurance company. They won't charge you the deductable for something that is not your fault, and they will gladly go after somebody that has damaged the property they insure.

Please post back, let us know what happens!

kklare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's been nearly two months so I would waste no
> time contacting the insurance company and the
> police. This guy is fucking with you, something
> these shady towing companies do all the time.
> It's almost a criminal organization. I have heard
> so many stories of these companies that I'm in
> awe that they are not scrutinized more by the
> community.
>
> Whether you have the car fixed or not is none of
> his business: he is liable under law to pay for
> 100% of the assessed damage. Usually the median
> of three estimates is what insurance companies
> settle for, so go to expensive shops for your
> estimates.
>
> The only thing you have going against you is the
> lapsed time and any more time you put off
> contacting your insurance company. They won't
> charge you the deductable for something that is
> not your fault, and they will gladly go after
> somebody that has damaged the property they
> insure.
>
> Please post back, let us know what happens!

Yeah, this will be filed by your insurance co. as either "NOT AT FAULT - UNINSURED MOTORIST" and they will pay it, or against the insurance policy/co. of the party at fault. It's a no-lose for you either way. Either way, your rates do not go up. Do you have an agent, or did you just sign up directly through your insurer? Cuz having an agent is nice in this situation, he makes money by being the middle man between you and the insurer, so he wants to keep you happy. Discuss it with him. OR just call your insurer and tell them you attempted to resolve this between the at-fault party and yourself, to no avail. They shouldn't care about the time lapse in that case.

Henry's wrecker is a bunch of pricks. They're car thieves with a county contract to tow vehicles.

Ugh... hate Henry's. Towed me out of my own reserved spot, the bastards.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ugh... hate Henry's. Towed me out of my own
> reserved spot, the bastards.


Yeah, I had some moron from Ohio, fricken tourists!, hit me head on when I crossed GTOWN Pike on Walker, dumbass approached that turn just before the light at like 55, or 60. In the rain. In November(10+ years ago). He slid across the double-yellow, I saw him coming, tried to jump the curb to avoid his hitting me, but he still got me. Luckily my efforts to avoid the accident at least meant he hit me on the front corner rather than directly head on. At least that offset his momentum into making my car go flying into a spin off the road, rather than placing his or my engine in either of our's laps. The cop that was directly behind me was laughing his ass off when he got out of his car "Oh man! I thought you were going to outmanuever this dumbass and avoid him hitting you. But then I realized if he didn't hit you, he was going to hit me!", "Yeah thanks officer, how about 'is everyone alright?' that would be nice to hear." So anyway, of course my car was totalled. It got towed to the Henry's impound lot at 7 and 606. I went there not more than 5 hours after the accident to get some stuff out of the car and meet another towing company so they could get my car out of there, but they had already stripped my ~$6,000 stereo system out of the car.

Fortunately, after Chuck (there's only one Chuck, you either know him or you drive around with an MTX, Rockford or worse sub in your car) built my sub box that all my amps were also mounted on, I used a radial saw to cut a nice 45 degree inward angled 1/4 inch deep outline on the underside, and glued about 75 razor blades into it. Whoever grabbed that box to lift it out of my hatchback certainly had to get some serious stitches. More than likely, they needed to have a bunch of tendons reattached, as well. ANd I know it worked, because there was a lot of blood where my box used to be.

So, lose $6k in equipment, but at least you know someone at Henry's had some hefty medical bills :) Besides, Ohio Tourist's insurance paid for my stereo. And you know it wasn't a "rogue employee" since the first guy to attempt to remove my stereo had to get someone else to remove it more intelligently. Because I doubt he had the use of his hands for several weeks, if not months.

The cops looked around the impound lot and their little shack, no sign of the equipment, so there was a third person who drove off with it immediately, as well.

SO yeah, Henry's is a racket. In fact, after the cop laughed about my ingenious security system (the razor blades) he said "this is not the first time I've been called out to this lot for stolen items from impounded vehicles. These guys are scumbags. I already know which 4 of the 7 that work here are doing it, but I can't get anything solid enough to do anything about it. Besides, I think it's kind of a Henry's policy. But I can't prove anything." I asked if there was anyway to find out which employee is about to get tendon reattachment surgery, whether that would help in any way, and he said "nah, you're probably setting yourself up for a lawsuit if we pursue that idea. Best to leave it be" (now, that's also why I still believe that the cops are cool. They might be dicks, but they're also cool when you're dealing with them appropriately and in the right circumstances)

I love how they are cash-only, too.

PhilLesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fortunately, after Chuck (there's only one Chuck,
> you either know him or you drive around with an
> MTX, Rockford or worse sub in your car) built my
> sub box that all my amps were also mounted on, I
> used a radial saw to cut a nice 45 degree inward
> angled 1/4 inch deep outline on the underside, and
> glued about 75 razor blades into it.

Where does Chuck work? I forget the name of the guy that built my box out of Sound Solutions in Chantilly. Good guy, knows his stuff. Didn't buy my gear from them though, no way I would have been able to avoid W6V2's retail.

PhilLesh, you rock. That is absolutely hilarious and I hope the dude got some nasty infections.

I had my car towed from behing the Clarendon Grille four years ago. I call the towing company and the dude says "yeah, we got it" so I had a friend drive me down there. This was about an hour and a half after I noticed it was gone. When I showed up the fella informed me it wasn't there yet, it was on its way. "But you said you had it when I called," I reminded him. "We do have it, it's on its way."

I was angry and VERY suspicious so I called the cops. Appearantly towing places have to report immediately to the police when they tow, so the cops don't waste time on false stolen vehicle claims. They said it wasn't listed as having been towed. They called the place, then called me back and said "They admit they have it and it's on the way. They often don't report these towings because in most cases people won't need to call us. Then it's off the record and they don't have to pay taxes."

Long story short the car showed up about 45 minutes after I got there and I had to pay the crooks $120 cash. There is a follow-on story to this about how they shouldn't have charged that much (there was a story on WTOP shortly after I was towed) and people should call them for a partial reimbursement. Yeah, that really worked.

I think figured out why my car disappeared for so long:
They quickly tow as many cars out of the lot as they can, and they use a near by lot they can stowe them at temporarily so people don't wisen up that they're towing and move their cars. Then from this satellite lot they start moving them to the impound lot, which could take 20 minutes per car. Doesn't matter how long it takes since they have moved your car and you don't know where it is.

These guys are soulless pricks.

kklare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PhilLesh, you rock. That is absolutely hilarious
> and I hope the dude got some nasty infections.
>
> I had my car towed from behing the Clarendon
> Grille four years ago. I call the towing company
> and the dude says "yeah, we got it" so I had a
> friend drive me down there. This was about an
> hour and a half after I noticed it was gone. When
> I showed up the fella informed me it wasn't there
> yet, it was on its way. "But you said you had it
> when I called," I reminded him. "We do have it,
> it's on its way."
>
> I was angry and VERY suspicious so I called the
> cops. Appearantly towing places have to report
> immediately to the police when they tow, so the
> cops don't waste time on false stolen vehicle
> claims. They said it wasn't listed as having been
> towed. They called the place, then called me back
> and said "They admit they have it and it's on the
> way. They often don't report these towings
> because in most cases people won't need to call
> us. Then it's off the record and they don't have
> to pay taxes."
>
> Long story short the car showed up about 45
> minutes after I got there and I had to pay the
> crooks $120 cash. There is a follow-on story to
> this about how they shouldn't have charged that
> much (there was a story on WTOP shortly after I
> was towed) and people should call them for a
> partial reimbursement. Yeah, that really worked.
>
> I think figured out why my car disappeared for so
> long:
> They quickly tow as many cars out of the lot as
> they can, and they use a near by lot they can
> stowe them at temporarily so people don't wisen up
> that they're towing and move their cars. Then
> from this satellite lot they start moving them to
> the impound lot, which could take 20 minutes per
> car. Doesn't matter how long it takes since they
> have moved your car and you don't know where it
> is.
>
> These guys are soulless pricks.


Yeah, I've heard about that. Back in the 80's, some bouncers in fairfax would find out where they were towing cars 'intermediately', and notify customers. And the customers could then walk over and get their cars. I guess you have to give them credit, they're maximizing profits. But of course, they're still lower than dirt dirt-bags.

That would be a nice service -- follow the truck to their "holding area" to find out where it is, then offer a shuttle service. You know they'll try to tell you how it's illegal to take your car, and whatever, but fuck, if you've got the keys, and it's on private property not under their control, then FUCK THEM.

ben Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PhilLesh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Fortunately, after Chuck (there's only one
> Chuck,
> > you either know him or you drive around with
> an
> > MTX, Rockford or worse sub in your car)
> built my
> > sub box that all my amps were also mounted
> on, I
> > used a radial saw to cut a nice 45 degree
> inward
> > angled 1/4 inch deep outline on the
> underside, and
> > glued about 75 razor blades into it.
>
> Where does Chuck work? I forget the name of the
> guy that built my box out of Sound Solutions in
> Chantilly. Good guy, knows his stuff. Didn't buy
> my gear from them though, no way I would have been
> able to avoid W6V2's retail.
>
> adytum.net
> don,t dream

Myer-emco in Bailey's. He used to work at audio associates in Loehmans (no longer there, some fly-by-night trunk slammers are in the same place as they used to be, tho) Chuck is, or at least at one time was, the only master certified installer on the east coast. He had people drive cars up from florida and down from NYC to have him work on their cars. He knows how to create a sound system, rather than just "wire up some equipment", like everyone else. I mean, shit, I can rip a stock head unit out of just about any car, and wire in an after market one. But that's like the difference between a hacker and a professional programmer. (not the media's hacker, but a hacker programmer) I can make it so it works, he can do it right.

When I had my Cobra set up with a $9k system, he had a 911 turbo in the shop that didn't even have an engine. The guy was from Florida, and the custom engine that he had Porsche build for him was being tweaked to meet US emissions somewhere else, it was a $400,000 engine. The guy had a $35,000 custom carbon-fiber kit installed in the interior, and another $90k in "ground effects", all at other shops, ME is purely stereo. Supposedly the car had 990 wheel hp. SO you know Chuck has a reputation. He knows how to make your car sound like a rolling studio. Better than your living room system, no question.

If you're just looking to boom down the road, save your money. But if you appreciate sound reproduction, staging, etc, he's worth EVERY PENNY (and he's not that much more expensive than the trunk-slamming chop shops.) Though he can build a box that makes your subs sound SHWEEEET!

JLs are nice. At least for subs.


Oh yea, Myer-emco itself sucks. They won't install anything you didn't buy from them, unless it's a minor part of an overall system that you otherwise bought through them. It usually has to be something they don't sell and can't custom order. But they're pretty good about "warranty" work. I nearly totalled my cobra, and after getting back from the dealership's body shop, the trunk-slammer they hired to remove all the equipment from the trunk so they could do the work rewired it up all retarded. ME redid the whole thing for around $150. It would have cost me $300 anywhere else, but since I've probably spent around $30 - 40k at ME over the years in various cars, they accomodate me to keep me coming back. Since I've had Chuck install in 4 cars over the years, they even accomodated me when I thought I could save some money and had a stereo system built at some place near fairfax circle, that turned out to be completely fucked. Even though they usually don't do "reinstalls" or install equipment they didn't sell, they did it for me anyway, because Chuck remembered that I'd been using him since around 1990 --- though he still doesn't actually KNOW me, I have to remind him every time ;)

Just a question ...

Why all the sound system stuff? Too much money on your hands? Music can only sound so good, then what? bells and whistles?

paperpusher sounds like he's 75-100 y/o

-hates video games and gamers
-hates youth
-hates other people enjoying life the way they want
-probably hates freedom, meaning he is on Al Qaida's side

I have always said you are either with the leet gamerz or Ur with teh evIldoerz!

rstidman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> paperpusher sounds like he's 75-100 y/o
>
> -hates video games and gamers
> -hates youth
> -hates other people enjoying life the way they
> want
> -probably hates freedom, meaning he is on Al
> Qaida's side


you confuse my questions for hatred. True I hate most everything but didn't know it showed up here so clearly. Al Qaida? If that means I disagree with bush's imposition of his so-called values on independent nations, then I suppose I'm guilty.

to go off on a tangent but still on the topic of hatred, today I heard bush saying something about not wanting to waste innocent lives. he was talking about stem cell research. Certainly he wasn't talking about the innocent lives he's responsible for snuffing out in Iraq.

he was being sarcastic

PaperPusher,

> "...the innocent lives he's responsible for snuffing out in Iraq."

Again... we aren't killing the innocent. If you are talking about the military personel, they signed up for it.

> "... stem cell research."

I <3 South Korea.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Good lord can we please keep ONE thread on topic? There have been several informative threads that have turned into president bashing threads.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2005 09:58AM by Trogdor the Burninator.

Gravis.

Again ... the children in iraq are the innocent ones. Obviously you have none of your own or your heart would have an inkling of compassion.

trogdor, please show me one thread that stays on topic. none do so get over it.

the Bush presidency DOES resemble an auto collision in some ways so maybe that's why the thread strayed in that direction.

PaperPusher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a question ...
>
> Why all the sound system stuff? Too much money on
> your hands? Music can only sound so good, then
> what? bells and whistles?


Staging, reproduction, clarity. I shun bells and whistles. If you were to look all around my car, you'd be unable to tell there was anything but a stock system with an aftermarket head unit. Even in the trunk, you couldn't tell there was anything there. It's all discreet. I'm after sound, not show.

Not everyone can tell the difference. But I've developed the ability to discern subtle nuances in music by spending hours listening to fine audio systems. I even took courses in studio and sound reinforcement at NOVA just for fun, because I love good sounding music. Hearing a kick drum's hammer, or the scratch of a pick against a steel guitar string. To hear that while listening to a stereo in your car, that's perfection!

I guess it's sort of how some long-time pot smokers can tell the difference between different strains by the taste, or the high they feel. Or how some people can tell the difference between a $15 steak and a $50 steak at a restaurant. It's my thing, and I'm really into it. "audiophile", a conneseur, or something.

If I could afford an entire system of McIntosh amps, I'd probably have a wet dream listening to it. So far, I still can't justify spending 4 grand on just one amp in a system that would need at least 3, and then speakers to match it.


Tho, as I get older, my hearing is losing some of it's higher-end frequencies, and it's getting harder to tell between a "great" stereo and a "good" stereo. I can still tell when I hear an "average" or a "bad" stereo, though.

phil you spend too much time talking and not enough refilling the bowl for the bong

Let me know where you guys are, I want lots of filled bowls, lots of filled bongs! I need it.

I can't stand it. I have to have a bunch of filled bongs!

PhilLesh,

> "the children in iraq are the innocent ones."

who is killing the children? i dont think we have been shooting them.


> "Obviously you have none of your own or your heart would have an inkling of compassion."

have you forgotten all the starving in africa and those with arms cut off so they cannot mine conflict diamonds? what about those born with aids? those born into abusive families or broken families. the world is full of innocent children. the bottom line is that those who have the children are directly responsible for bringing a child into a world whether it be hostile or peaceful. there are many groups of people that need to stop breeding, not to get rid of them or some passive genocide but rather for the sake of their offspring. the affairs of the world/area they will be in need to be put in order before they go off breeding and bringing children into a world of despair. would this cause a drastic change in the world as we know it? absolutely. i believe it would be for the better.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis,

PhilLesh didn't say those things. I did. But ANYWAY, I've had enough of that conversation because my words do nothing and even if I convinced everyone on this board that my way of thinking is the right way, what would that resolve? Nothing.

Obviously you are either Hitler or Hitler's understudy since you believe genocide is a solution to any of the world's ills.

PaperPusher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis,
>
> PhilLesh didn't say those things. I did. But
> ANYWAY, I've had enough of that conversation
> because my words do nothing and even if I
> convinced everyone on this board that my way of
> thinking is the right way, what would that
> resolve? Nothing.
>
> Obviously you are either Hitler or Hitler's
> understudy since you believe genocide is a
> solution to any of the world's ills.

did you notice i wrote this?

"the bottom line is that those who have the children are directly responsible for bringing a child into a world whether it be hostile or peaceful. there are many groups of people that need to stop breeding, not to get rid of them or some passive genocide but rather for the sake of their offspring"

dumbass.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

well Duh. Obviously I notice you wrote it ... THAT'S why I responded to you.

> there are many groups of people that need to stop breeding


This would be none of your holier-than-thou fucking business. That sort of thinking is exactly what encouraged the masses to follow Hitler.

Obviously your mamma didn't take your advice. Perhaps she should reconsider?

PaperPusher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well Duh. Obviously I notice you wrote it ...
> THAT'S why I responded to you.
>
> > there are many groups of people that need to
> stop breeding
>
>
> This would be none of your holier-than-thou
> fucking business. That sort of thinking is
> exactly what encouraged the masses to follow
> Hitler.
>
> Obviously your mamma didn't take your advice.
> Perhaps she should reconsider?

you are missing the point. im saying that people who cannot take care of their children properly or would introduce them into a hostile environment should not have kids. do you really support the single mom with 9 kids with no job? how about the one who is having a kid where they know their arm WILL be cut off as soon as they are born? i would find this behavior cruel. your foolish insults only show your childness and ignorance.



"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I, for one, hope that the Marine Corps Marathon does not breed. The last thing we need is little marathons going on everywhere. Down with race breeding.

Gravis,

Yet another example of your believing that your thoughts/actions/words are above the rest:

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dumbass

and

> your foolish insults only show your childness and ignorance

You're right there with me.


Good luck with your race breeding and genocide. Are the children to blame because of their mother's actions? Is it the child's fault that the arm is problematic and needs to be removed? For that matter, all the injured men and women coming back from Bush's war with their arms/legs or worse blown off ... shall they be killed too? After all, they too will be a burdon on our fragile economy. Not to mention that they are unsightly and serve as a constant reminder of our less than perfect world.

The mother with nine kids? for her its a matter of simple economics. More kids means more money coming in every month. You want to blame her for a broken liberal system? Would you prefer to cut off her money and let her starve on the street with her nine kids? From everything else you've said I'm sure your answer will be 'yes'.

When you become God, you may feel free to make those sorts of decisions. Until then, you may continue to listen to Rush Limbaugh ranting with his drug induced mentality.

I would only hope that when you have kids that you have the same lack of heartlessness to kill your own less than perfect kid because she happens to be a girl instead of a boy or vice versa (or whatever it is that makes your kid 'perfect'). Lord knows that we don't need anymore people with your kind of mentality out here in this less than perfect world.

PaperPusher,

>> your foolish insults only show your childness and ignorance
>You're right there with me

i appologize, i was frustrated at the time.

---

> "Are the children to blame because of their mother's actions? Is it the child's fault that the arm is problematic and needs to be removed? For that matter,"

I'm talking about in Africa where there are conflict diamonds. They cut off newborn's right arm so that cannot work in the diamond mines.

---

> "...all the injured men and women coming back from Bush's war with their arms/legs or worse blown off."

They also volunteered to be in the military knowing that it was possible such things could happen. the military is a tool of war which they SHOULD know before enlisting.

---

> "After all, they too will be a burdon on our fragile economy."

I do not want this for the sake of the economy but for the children.

---

> "The mother with nine kids? for her its a matter of simple economics. More kids means more money coming in every month. You want to blame her for a broken liberal system?"

economics has nothing to do with it. quite simply if you cannot provide for the children, do not have them. there is a little something called birthcontrol.

---

> "Would you prefer to cut off her money and let her starve on the street with her nine kids?"

I would prefer that it be avoided in the first place. I do not want anyone to suffer which is my original point. It is not the mother I feel bad for, she made her choices in life, but rather the children who were brought into a world of poverty.

---

> "I would only hope that when you have kids..."

I do not want kids and nor have them.

---

> "...kill your own less than perfect kid because she happens to be a girl instead of a boy"

I do not wish for anyone to die. I understand your reference to China but I would not blame them for their gender... that idea is... bizarre.

---

> "Lord knows that we don't need anymore people with your kind of mentality out here in this less than perfect world."

I do not demand perfection but rather that people put forth an honest and unselfish effort to make the world a better place for everyone and to prevent others from suffering weather it be their children or not.

---

You seemed to have missed my main idea. I do not wish to kill anyone, nor do I want to have only certain races breed to make a "master race." I want people to prevent suffering that would be ineveitable for their children due to their current situation. If you are flat broke and are living on the street, I do not want you popping kids out as fast as possible.



"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

My guess is that you're relatively young and still believing in a perfect world. Don't be alarmed, but not everyone agrees with what you believe to be the best case scenario. For example, poor folks may believe that bringing more children into the world IS making the world a better place. In china, they believe they're making the world a better place by having the children avoid the diamond mines. In both cases, they differ from your opinion yet the three of you believe the world is better because of your actions.

i am not so naive to think the world is perfect. it's perfectly fucked up at best.

> "In china, they believe they're making the world a better place by having the children avoid the diamond mines. In both cases,"

The whole diamond mines thing happens in Africa, not China. I have no problem with people having children as long as they can provide for them.


"...poor folks may believe that bringing more children into the world IS making the world a better place."

i do not have issue with if they think their offspring will improve the world or not but rather what the children will have to go through in order to grow up. would you really think it's a good idea to have a child if you cannot afford proper medical or dental care? what about the child's psyche? living in a detrimental environment is no place for a child. this isnt about what the parents want, this is about the children. besides, in africa they accept that their child will have no right arm. that is inconsiderate to say the least. would you have a child if you knew their would be a painful experience? if you say you would, you are just plain narcissistic as the child is simply a superficial object.

just to recap, my philosophy is for the sake of the child, not the sake of the economy, make a elite race of people, not to kill those who break my ideas. i never said it should be enforced even. i simply wish people would consider the life the child must live. i doubt you would choose to have a child if you knew someone was going to cut off their face, scarring them for life and destroy their self-worth. i just want people to be considerate before having a child.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

probably every parent in the world believes their child will make the world a better place. You oh Holy One should have the ultimate responsibility of deciding whose child will die either by abortion or (your apparent personal favorite) child genocide.

People WILL continue to have children in every environment in the world. What would you chose for the procreating masses? Homosexuality? Perhaps that is why you will not have children.

> economics has nothing to do with it. quite simply if you cannot provide for the children, do not have them. there is a little something called birthcontrol.

You're assuming that someone who cannot afford a child CAN afford birth control.

johnnye Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > economics has nothing to do with it. quite
> simply if you cannot provide for the children, do
> not have them. there is a little something called
> birthcontrol.
>
> You're assuming that someone who cannot afford a
> child CAN afford birth control.

Poorer or uninsured women can get birth control from women's clinics for cheap or free.

johnnye,

>> economics has nothing to do with it. quite simply if you cannot provide for the children, do not have them. there is a little something called birthcontrol.

>You're assuming that someone who cannot afford a child CAN afford birth control.

well, if you cant afford birth control, stop fucking. and if you cant afford it, how the hell can you provide for a child?!


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis,

Just a little information for when you run the government:

Birth control is free at the clinics so it isn't a matter of affording. I've seen some government agencies have condoms on the counter for the taking much like banks have lollipops on in baskets for the kids.

Providing for the child ... nature takes care of that for the first few years.

Many poor people have children and never burdon the government for handouts. Many do burdon the government and they give poor people a bad reputation. Perhaps the focus should be on those who choose to thrive off the system instead of looking at one's economic status.

Obviously you came from a rich family since you weren't aborted ... but too bad that the best part of you ran down your mamma's leg.

PaperPusher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gravis,
>
> PhilLesh didn't say those things. I did. But
> ANYWAY, I've had enough of that conversation
> because my words do nothing and even if I
> convinced everyone on this board that my way of
> thinking is the right way, what would that
> resolve? Nothing.
>
> Obviously you are either Hitler or Hitler's
> understudy since you believe genocide is a
> solution to any of the world's ills.


You're right, I didn't write that. But I think I agree with you.

This guy isn't Hitler's understudy. He's Prescott Bush's understudy. He, Henry Ford, and the founder of Planned Parenthood were very huge proponents of eugenics. They thought their success and moderate intelligence offered them a unique view of the world, one in which they could choose who should live or die.

We're seeing it in foreign policy practice today, since the grandchild of Prescott is holding power (tenably) at the moment.

PaperPusher,

---

> "...for when you run the government"

my reply: cute.

---

> "Birth control is free at the clinics so it isn't a matter of affording. I've seen some government agencies have condoms on the counter for the taking much like banks have lollipops on in baskets for the kids."

my reply: i'm quite happy this is true.

---

> "Providing for the child ... nature takes care of that for the first few years."

my reply: sure... and after those few years, what then? send them to a sweat shop?

---

> "Many poor people have children and never burdon the government for handouts."

my reply: This is fine with me.

---

> "Many do burdon the government and they give poor people a bad reputation."

my reply: This is what i'm talking about with not being able to provide for their children.

---

> "Perhaps the focus should be on those who choose to thrive off the system instead of looking at one's economic status."

my reply: my focus was never one economic status. my focus was on the ability to provide for the children but that also entails not being a burden on "the system."

---

> "Obviously you came from a rich family since you weren't aborted ... but too bad that the best part of you ran down your mamma's leg."

my reply: How very adult of you.

---

the post is now cleaned up to be more readable


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2005 01:19AM by Gravis.

wow gravis, your posts have become not just too rambling, but now impossible to read due to your interlacing technique.

Good work, I didn't want to read it anyway but now you made it impossible for me to read your comments even compulsively..

rstidman, agreed. it's hard to have a discussion when someone is so self absorbed they can't see beyond their own nose.

PaperPusher,

you have yet to present any valid(meaning it's not an opinion of yours) evidence that i am this horrible person that you claim i am. you slander me but have nothing but your own anger to back it up. i look forward to your reply.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

gravis, I have nothing to say

im glad we agree, you have no evidence at all. nice little chat.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

you guys need to get a room

bring lotion

Even though r "the last word" stidman has already been here, I'm going to say my piece.

Frankly, you're all acting like jackasses. It's obviously become personal, and all reason has flown through the door.

From skimming, how the hell does anyone think it's a good idea that people who are not able to provide for their children are reproducing? Forget the eugenics angle, what if two blonde-haired, blue-eyed caucasian jews (wow, that's a mouthful) are living in WWII era Warsaw. Would it be a good idea to have children then?

What if it's the same two people, except they're immigrants living in Northern Virginia on a combined income of $30,000. They rent an apartment, have two car payments, and no prospects for career advancement. Is it a good idea for them to have children?

Notice how I have good idea highlighted. Is anybody saying they shouldn't be able to have children? I haven't seen that said, but then I haven't read very much of the thread. Now, would it be a foolish idea for them to go ahead and have children? Absolutely, but nobody can stop them and as long as it doesn't become my responsibility to pay for the child via government handouts, I have no personal interest in the situation. I may feel that the parents should not have a child, and I'll also feel horrible because the child is being brought into unfortunate conditions, but it's none of my business.

It's late and I've forgotten where I'm going with this, so:

Shut the hell up jackasses. All of you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2005 01:19AM by ben.

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