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Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: June 21, 2015 12:17PM

Looks like Redfin is trying to break the model with salaried agents, who are also paid bonuses based on reviews. If you bought or sold with Redfin, how did it work out and would you do so again?

http://www.bendbulletin.com/business/3224414-151/redfins-bid-to-overthrow-traditional-brokers-still-uphill#

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: used them in 2013 ()
Date: June 21, 2015 03:52PM

We used them in early 2013 to buy a townhouse and it worked out well. Saved a couple grand in closing costs. The key trade-off though is you really have to do your own homework with finding a home. The Redfin realtor I used didn't suggest homes to us; we had to use their website to find them, and then we'd meet up for tours.

Perhaps the one great piece of advice our Redfin agent gave us was to use a local loan provider as opposed to a company like QUicken Loans; apparently it is a strong signal to sellers that you are serious.

At the end of the day, it was actually our financial planner who happened to find a house that fit our needs, and then we used Redfin to close the deal. Worked out well for us, and we weren't talked into a home we couldn't afford. Good thing too, as assessments are shooting through the roof!!!

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Que? ()
Date: June 21, 2015 05:12PM

I can't speak for Redfin specifically, but I can say that it's about goddamn time. Since the dawn of time it's been FSBO or use a realtor. For the record, a realtor is a person who did reasonably well in retail or used car sales and decided to attempt progression. Yes they have to pass and exam. No, it doesn't take a fucking rocket scientist to pass that exam. Look at Long and Foster.

My last experience with a realty company was a nightmare.

Home sale commissions should be performance based. Not performance based, based on whether you sold the home or not. Once they get it on MLS, as long it as the seller isn't an idiot the home sells itself. By "performance based" I mean, "how seamless did you make it for me, the seller?", since that's what you were hired for to begin with.

My realty company took years off my life, but because the house sold they still got their full commission, regardless Of their incompetence.

And I hired a realtor that was a friend...

Fuck yes to realtors getting out of what they put in to it. Let's hope this catches on everywhere.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: June 21, 2015 05:29PM

used them in 2013 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We used them in early 2013 to buy a townhouse and
> it worked out well. Saved a couple grand in
> closing costs. The key trade-off though is you
> really have to do your own homework with finding a
> home. The Redfin realtor I used didn't suggest
> homes to us; we had to use their website to find
> them, and then we'd meet up for tours.

Interesting. That mirrors the experience we had using a discount Realtor (4% commission) in 2007. Thanks for the information.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Good Guy ()
Date: June 21, 2015 07:19PM

You're better off searching for an agent that is a good communicator and negotiating a lower commission. You will not get this from the big guys or teams, many times offices will have newer agents that will work for a reduced commission. The key is to talk to them and make sure they're not morons, they're performing the job for you, interview them!

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Redfinner ()
Date: June 23, 2015 11:24PM

Bought and sold with Redfin and had great experiences. Two different agents for the transactions. They can do both but most of them stick to either largely just selling or just buying.

Someone posted earlier about having to do your homework first. This is largely true. I am not 60 years old, so I embrace the Internet and what it has to offer. Redfin's mobile app and website are pretty much the best for searching and presenting home details. The idea that I should pick a real estate agent and just have them show me a few homes they think meet the profile of what I want is absurd. You can quite literally look through dozens if not hundreds of houses based on criteria you supply to filter them down on your own in no time at all. Just showing up to some shit show of a house you could have crossed of your list if you just looked at a few pictures ahead of time is an asinine concept.

Look through the listings.. getting notifications of new ones.. and go see what you want to see. Stop at open houses on your own. Otherwise you just request (schedule) via Redfin if you want to see a house that needs to be shown by a realtor. They have associate staff that will meet you if your realtor is not available. Basically you can pretty much see whatever you want with short notice if it's available to be seen. Pretty f'ing awesome to be honest. They are legit realtors and surely have their strenghts and weaknesses like all others. The few I worked with were previously with other agencies.

As for selling.. they are also far superior to your typical real estate agent setup. They take just 1.5% commission or a minimum amount if your home is not priced very high. Sure you might be able to work out a sweet heart low-commission deal with some realtor but this is the default with Redfin. One of the best parts of this is -- you are under no obligation to stick with them. You don't sign a 60-day exclusivity contract with them. Unless this has changed since I last did it, you can decide you don't want to work with them at any time and done. That's it.. simple. They send professional folks to take photos and help with the description. It's quite brilliant.

As for buying the home -- they show you on the website what your rebate is going to be. It's essentially that other 1.5% of the commission. It's not taxable and you get a check at the end. I can't recall if you can apply it towards closing costs or not but I think you could. Redfin is the future.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Not a Redfin cocksucker ()
Date: June 24, 2015 05:03AM

Wow, you do realize that a Realtor can do the exact same thing in regards to showing properties? MLS subscribers can set your search criteria, send auto emails as soon as new listings come on market or have a status change(unlike syndicated Redfin), they also have access to programs that allow the customer to create their own criteria and search at will.
A realtor can also set you up on homesnap, a mobile app that updates real time and allows you to search listings or see what is in close proximity to where you're at.

Commissions are also not fixed price, you can find a much better deal and representation using a traditional real estate salesperson that isn't from the Stone Age. It's your own fault if you're too dumb to negotiate or ask the right questions.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: cFwey ()
Date: June 24, 2015 09:18AM

A largely successful and time consuming negotiation effort with a traditional realtor will get you to where Redfin already is. Redfin or traditional realtor, it's all the same in terms of finding your home online. I recently bought, and other than being familiar with the process, my realtor didn't do a god damn thing.

Realtors in general are fucking crooked - negotiating towards close and all of a sudden the buyer "gets another offer"? Who's to say the two realtors aren't just hitting each other up, looking to rack up a little more in commission? In the age of old industries getting redefined, I'm happy to see the dinosaur realtors finally getting fucked in the ass.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: na baby na ()
Date: June 24, 2015 09:26AM

cFwey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Realtors in general are fucking crooked -
> negotiating towards close and all of a sudden the
> buyer "gets another offer"? Who's to say the two
> realtors aren't just hitting each other up,
> looking to rack up a little more in commission?

That's a pretty ridiculous proposition.

Let's see...let's do a deal 90% to closure, almost done, and then introduce a brand new deal and start all over, and maybe lose our original deal and $15K commission, so we can make an extra $300.

I don't buy that.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: CoolStoryBro ()
Date: June 24, 2015 09:26AM

Not a Redfin cocksucker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, you do realize that a Realtor can do the
> exact same thing in regards to showing properties?
> MLS subscribers can set your search criteria,
> send auto emails as soon as new listings come on
> market or have a status change(unlike syndicated
> Redfin), they also have access to programs that
> allow the customer to create their own criteria
> and search at will.
> A realtor can also set you up on homesnap, a
> mobile app that updates real time and allows you
> to search listings or see what is in close
> proximity to where you're at.
>
> Commissions are also not fixed price, you can
> find a much better deal and representation using a
> traditional real estate salesperson that isn't
> from the Stone Age. It's your own fault if you're
> too dumb to negotiate or ask the right questions.


*butt hurt alert!*

Par for the course on FFXU but you sound like a mental midget who probably raged and through down their keyboard half way through your response. Redfin agents are normal real estate agents. You don't get e-mail only service doofus. Not sure what a "much better deal" is -- you get a real estate agent that takes less than 1.5%? You would be working with a scrub if that's the case. Other services have improved but Redfin's has been one of the main innovators. It's why their app and website is far superior to the ones you didn't list and get out of here with your homesnap bs. You can keep using apps and websites that are behind the curve because you are butthurt over redfin for some unknown reason.

"Not a Redfin cocksucker" <-- clearly the case. just a normal cocksucker ;)

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: badcompare ()
Date: June 24, 2015 09:29AM

na baby na Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cFwey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Realtors in general are fucking crooked -
> > negotiating towards close and all of a sudden
> the
> > buyer "gets another offer"? Who's to say the
> two
> > realtors aren't just hitting each other up,
> > looking to rack up a little more in commission?
>
>
> That's a pretty ridiculous proposition.
>
> Let's see...let's do a deal 90% to closure, almost
> done, and then introduce a brand new deal and
> start all over, and maybe lose our original deal
> and $15K commission, so we can make an extra
> $300.
>
> I don't buy that.



Yeah that is a horrible comparison. The crookedness is usually the inverse of that and doesn't really involve collusion. Where the realtor would actually fail you is trying to convince you to pay a bad price in general (e.g. come up from what you want to pay) or convince you that taking $30,000 less to come down to that offer is the main problem. They may not have waiting and getting the top deal for you in mind. You're out 30k selling your house but that's just $900 less for them and they get to move on to their next deal.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: na baby na 2 ()
Date: June 24, 2015 09:31AM

na baby na Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cFwey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Realtors in general are fucking crooked -
> > negotiating towards close and all of a sudden
> the
> > buyer "gets another offer"? Who's to say the
> two
> > realtors aren't just hitting each other up,
> > looking to rack up a little more in commission?
>
>
> That's a pretty ridiculous proposition.
>
> Let's see...let's do a deal 90% to closure, almost
> done, and then introduce a brand new deal and
> start all over, and maybe lose our original deal
> and $15K commission, so we can make an extra
> $300.
>
> I don't buy that.


Anyhow, if that were to happen, the listing broker would just be doing their job, right, trying to get the most money possible for the seller?

Hmmmm...real good conspiracy theory...those dang realtors trying to get more money for their clients...c'mon, man!

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: YLnd3 ()
Date: June 24, 2015 09:42AM

While the collusion situation is unlikely, there's still nothing in place to keep it from happening and it's painfully obvious that most realtors don't earn their commission. The traditional model is flawed and it's on its way out. Look at it this way - at least you'll get your weekends back, assuming you don't get the bum schedule at CarMax.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: the jig ()
Date: June 24, 2015 02:06PM

To the realtor apologist - go fuck yourself, it's 2015. The jig is up, pal!

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: interwebs? ()
Date: June 24, 2015 02:17PM

What is special about 2015 as it might relate a "jig" being up? Availability of information on the internet? Well, it's been that way for at least 15 years...so...

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: 9LyDE ()
Date: June 24, 2015 02:24PM

The "jig" is up means that the scheme is foiled...people know that commissions are paying realtors more than they're worth. Also, innovation and competition like Redfin have not been around for 15 years which was what I was referring to.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: JKGHv ()
Date: June 24, 2015 03:14PM

Im in commercial real estate. I have purchased a home without any agent (other than myself) involved - it was fine. We just used a title co. I sold the same home by using a listing agent. Frankly I didnt want to deal with the co-op agents and their parade of clients. For the most part the consumer richly deserves the agent they get. In my opinion its the consumer that is often the crazy one in the transactions. Emotional, irrational etc.

Commercial is so different from residential that I would say I know very little about the residential process. I can tell you that in commercial real estate the emotional aspect of transactions is minimal. I will close by saying no one is ever forced to use an agent. Want to list your house on your own - these days its no problem. Want to buy a home on your own - no problem. Just insist that the coop commission is rebated back to you the buyer at settlement as cash.

I really cannot figure what all the whining is about. Nut-up and shut up if you dont like agents - you do not need to use them.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Barvus Marvus ()
Date: June 24, 2015 04:40PM

I dont see much whining, I just see future redfin customers pointing out how overpaid real estate agents are.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: no sirreeeee ()
Date: June 24, 2015 09:09PM

It always amazes me when people complain about, I mean, uh, "point out" how overpaid realtors are.

If one thinks so, and is about to make a real estate move that may involve a realtor, they should know a realtor's compensation is entirely negotiable.

As a matter of fact, any "set rates" violate some type of law...kind of like price fixing or something.

So, go ahead and see how low you can make them go. If they walk away, or you choose not to use them, that is EXACTLY how free enterprise and open markets should work. That is America.

Now, think of just about any other high paid job...like an "overpaid CEO"...do you think any one average citizen has the power to change their compensation?

Realtors can and do make good money...and many make nothing.

But if it so dang easy, go ahead and do it.

There is a barrier to entry, usually like 2 or 3 years of making no $$$, and even after that, they wake up every year with $0 salary...

They are not "overpaid" at all...their income is entirely negotiable on every single transaction.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: TCkbT ()
Date: June 26, 2015 08:49AM

Go pound sand. Or you could just go right to Redfin and not bother negotiating.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 26, 2015 11:57AM

no sirreeeee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It always amazes me when people complain about, I
> mean, uh, "point out" how overpaid realtors are.
>
> If one thinks so, and is about to make a real
> estate move that may involve a realtor, they
> should know a realtor's compensation is entirely
> negotiable.
>
> As a matter of fact, any "set rates" violate some
> type of law...kind of like price fixing or
> something.
>
> So, go ahead and see how low you can make them go.
> If they walk away, or you choose not to use them,
> that is EXACTLY how free enterprise and open
> markets should work. That is America.
>
> Now, think of just about any other high paid
> job...like an "overpaid CEO"...do you think any
> one average citizen has the power to change their
> compensation?
>
> Realtors can and do make good money...and many
> make nothing.
>
> But if it so dang easy, go ahead and do it.
>
> There is a barrier to entry, usually like 2 or 3
> years of making no $$$, and even after that, they
> wake up every year with $0 salary...
>
> They are not "overpaid" at all...their income is
> entirely negotiable on every single transaction.


It always amazes me that real estate agents still try to justify their ridiculous rates and protected markets in this day and age. Like full service brokers, travel agents, and whole life insurance salesmen, they need to just go away. The only reason that they've been permitted to continue to operate as they do is because of the large source of political contributions they and the rest of the supporting industry they represent.

In fact it is not a free market as various courts have found over the years. The entire system is structured to favor agencies. Even at negotiated rates, they still are ridiculous on a percentage basis of the gross at today's prices. In the days when a house sold for $20K - $100K, that may have been a more reasonable basis for the value of services provided. Not now. What an agent or company makes isn't a concern or the responsibility of buyer or seller. You wouldn't attempt to apply the same rationale to virtually any other transaction.

Most agents are idiots. Think about the the people you grew up and went to school with who became agents. 'Nuf said. There are a few who know what they're doing but for the most part they're morons who bring little to no value inserting themselves unnecessarily as a third party to the transaction at an inordinate cost.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: wtf....... ()
Date: June 26, 2015 01:40PM

"Permitted to continue"?

Permitted by who?

A free market...that is who.

If you don't want to use one, don't.

It's that simple.

Don't be one of those Ninny's that uses one because you don't know what you are doing and then complain that they were useless.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 26, 2015 01:55PM

wtf....... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Permitted to continue"?
>
> Permitted by who?
>
> A free market...that is who.
>
> If you don't want to use one, don't.
>
> It's that simple.
>
> Don't be one of those Ninny's that uses one
> because you don't know what you are doing and then
> complain that they were useless.


Didn't say that they were "useless." I said that they don't bring value anywhere near being equal to their cost at today's prices. That only continues because of the various ways that the market is greatly structured in their favor. The world has changed. The industry really hasn't much and has actively resisted changes which threaten it. As most in such protected markets do.

I have used and will continue to use alternatives like Redfin.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: what the f is your point? Komrad ()
Date: June 26, 2015 02:20PM

The good thing about a free market is that it will shake prices out real quick. if they "don't bring value anywhere near their cost" than a free market will achieve a price reduction.

With all these other resources available, like redfin, don't you think that will happen?

Or are you looking for the government to make that happen? We ain't communists here.

The price structure of a real estate agent is very sensitive to what an individual thinks...if you don't like it, negotiate it down or look for an alternative, lower cost. Or don't use one at all.

Compare that to thinking a CEO or even the president gets paid too much...not very sensitive to individual input at all.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Redfin Question ()
Date: June 26, 2015 02:33PM

Question: The Redfin site says "you pay only a 1.5% listing fee"...Do most people also pay a buyer's agent fee of 3% to make it a total of 4.5%?

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Zilch ()
Date: June 26, 2015 02:46PM

Redfin Question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Question: The Redfin site says "you pay only a
> 1.5% listing fee"...Do most people also pay a
> buyer's agent fee of 3% to make it a total of
> 4.5%?


Yes. You pay 4.5% total.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 26, 2015 02:50PM

what the f is your point? Komrad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The good thing about a free market is that it will
> shake prices out real quick. if they "don't bring
> value anywhere near their cost" than a free market
> will achieve a price reduction.

Again, it's not really a "free market." It is a limited market which greatly favors the players who still control the vast majority of the market.

>
> With all these other resources available, like
> redfin, don't you think that will happen?
>

Eventually, likely so. If it were more truly free, then it would have happened more so by now.


> Or are you looking for the government to make that
> happen? We ain't communists here.
>
> The price structure of a real estate agent is very
> sensitive to what an individual thinks...if you
> don't like it, negotiate it down or look for an
> alternative, lower cost. Or don't use one at all.

As I said, I will.

Median home price in Fairfax County now is $557,678. Even at 3% that's still $16,730 for really not doing a whole lot in the case of most "median" home sales. Average days-on-market now is 27. There's only so much that anyone can do in that time and in the vast majority of cases it's not worth anywhere near $17K with more paid beyond that for other specialized services associated with the sale and closing. It's also very high relative to what the "median" seller walks away with on a net basis in most cases after capital costs, interest, taxes, maintenance, improvements, etc., all counted.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: pHVPD ()
Date: June 26, 2015 02:57PM

yes sirrreeeee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> no sirreeeee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It always amazes me when people complain about,
> I
> > mean, uh, "point out" how overpaid realtors
> are.
> >
> > If one thinks so, and is about to make a real
> > estate move that may involve a realtor, they
> > should know a realtor's compensation is
> entirely
> > negotiable.
> >
> > As a matter of fact, any "set rates" violate
> some
> > type of law...kind of like price fixing or
> > something.
> >
> > So, go ahead and see how low you can make them
> go.
> > If they walk away, or you choose not to use
> them,
> > that is EXACTLY how free enterprise and open
> > markets should work. That is America.
> >
> > Now, think of just about any other high paid
> > job...like an "overpaid CEO"...do you think any
> > one average citizen has the power to change
> their
> > compensation?
> >
> > Realtors can and do make good money...and many
> > make nothing.
> >
> > But if it so dang easy, go ahead and do it.
> >
> > There is a barrier to entry, usually like 2 or
> 3
> > years of making no $$$, and even after that,
> they
> > wake up every year with $0 salary...
> >
> > They are not "overpaid" at all...their income
> is
> > entirely negotiable on every single
> transaction.
>
>
> It always amazes me that real estate agents still
> try to justify their ridiculous rates and
> protected markets in this day and age. Like full
> service brokers, travel agents, and whole life
> insurance salesmen, they need to just go away.
> The only reason that they've been permitted to
> continue to operate as they do is because of the
> large source of political contributions they and
> the rest of the supporting industry they
> represent.
>
> In fact it is not a free market as various courts
> have found over the years. The entire system is
> structured to favor agencies. Even at negotiated
> rates, they still are ridiculous on a percentage
> basis of the gross at today's prices. In the days
> when a house sold for $20K - $100K, that may have
> been a more reasonable basis for the value of
> services provided. Not now. What an agent or
> company makes isn't a concern or the
> responsibility of buyer or seller. You wouldn't
> attempt to apply the same rationale to virtually
> any other transaction.
>
> Most agents are idiots. Think about the the
> people you grew up and went to school with who
> became agents. 'Nuf said. There are a few who
> know what they're doing but for the most part
> they're morons who bring little to no value
> inserting themselves unnecessarily as a third
> party to the transaction at an inordinate cost.

Holy cow you are an idiot. Case in point you mention that 3% commission was more reasonable when houses cost 20-100k - you do understand inflation dont you. No you dont.

What an salesman makes isnt the concern of the buyer or seller - are you high? It certainly is the concern of the seller. By the way 100% commission compensation rewards only sales. You dont sell you make nothing. seems brutally fair to me.

I will agree that agents can be fairly dimwitted. This is true in any sales profession though as performance is not based on intellect but rather ability to sell. Very different skills.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 26, 2015 03:26PM

pHVPD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Holy cow you are an idiot. Case in point you
> mention that 3% commission was more reasonable
> when houses cost 20-100k - you do understand
> inflation dont you. No you dont.

You're the idiot who doesn't understand the the effect of percentages with larger vs smaller numbers independent of inflation. And as far as inflation goes:

$100K x .06 = $6,000
$550K x .06 = $33,000

Using BLS CPI, $6,000 in 1980 dollars = $17,315.90 in 2015 dollars.


>
> What an salesman makes isnt the concern of the
> buyer or seller - are you high? It certainly is
> the concern of the seller. By the way 100%
> commission compensation rewards only sales. You
> dont sell you make nothing. seems brutally fair
> to me.


What I said was that whether a salesman's cost/time is such that they make money on a given sale and whether being an agent is worthwhile overall for them as a profession, as was pointed to by the other poster, isn't really a concern of the seller or buyer. The latter aren't in it to make a living for the agent.

>
> I will agree that agents can be fairly dimwitted.
> This is true in any sales profession though as
> performance is not based on intellect but rather
> ability to sell. Very different skills.

In most cases they aren't even very good salespeople and there aren't a lot of sales skills required. They just happen to be the one who is inserted into that sale.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: pcvwh ()
Date: June 26, 2015 04:18PM

yes sirrreeeee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pHVPD Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Holy cow you are an idiot. Case in point you
> > mention that 3% commission was more reasonable
> > when houses cost 20-100k - you do understand
> > inflation dont you. No you dont.
>
> You're the idiot who doesn't understand the the
> effect of percentages with larger vs smaller
> numbers independent of inflation. And as far as
> inflation goes:
>
> $100K x .06 = $6,000
> $550K x .06 = $33,000
>
> Using BLS CPI, $6,000 in 1980 dollars = $17,315.90
> in 2015 dollars.
>
>
> >
> > What an salesman makes isnt the concern of the
> > buyer or seller - are you high? It certainly
> is
> > the concern of the seller. By the way 100%
> > commission compensation rewards only sales.
> You
> > dont sell you make nothing. seems brutally
> fair
> > to me.
>
>
> What I said was that whether a salesman's
> cost/time is such that they make money on a given
> sale and whether being an agent is worthwhile
> overall for them as a profession, as was pointed
> to by the other poster, isn't really a concern of
> the seller or buyer. The latter aren't in it to
> make a living for the agent.
>
> >
> > I will agree that agents can be fairly
> dimwitted.
> > This is true in any sales profession though as
> > performance is not based on intellect but
> rather
> > ability to sell. Very different skills.
>
> In most cases they aren't even very good
> salespeople and there aren't a lot of sales skills
> required. They just happen to be the one who is
> inserted into that sale.

hilarious. Based on your command of logic, language and math I would recommend you dont need any help with your next home sale/purchase - do it all on your own. please.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 26, 2015 05:13PM

pcvwh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes sirrreeeee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > pHVPD Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > Holy cow you are an idiot. Case in point you
> > > mention that 3% commission was more
> reasonable
> > > when houses cost 20-100k - you do understand
> > > inflation dont you. No you dont.
> >
> > You're the idiot who doesn't understand the the
> > effect of percentages with larger vs smaller
> > numbers independent of inflation. And as far
> as
> > inflation goes:
> >
> > $100K x .06 = $6,000
> > $550K x .06 = $33,000
> >
> > Using BLS CPI, $6,000 in 1980 dollars =
> $17,315.90
> > in 2015 dollars.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > What an salesman makes isnt the concern of
> the
> > > buyer or seller - are you high? It certainly
> > is
> > > the concern of the seller. By the way 100%
> > > commission compensation rewards only sales.
> > You
> > > dont sell you make nothing. seems brutally
> > fair
> > > to me.
> >
> >
> > What I said was that whether a salesman's
> > cost/time is such that they make money on a
> given
> > sale and whether being an agent is worthwhile
> > overall for them as a profession, as was
> pointed
> > to by the other poster, isn't really a concern
> of
> > the seller or buyer. The latter aren't in it
> to
> > make a living for the agent.
> >
> > >
> > > I will agree that agents can be fairly
> > dimwitted.
> > > This is true in any sales profession though
> as
> > > performance is not based on intellect but
> > rather
> > > ability to sell. Very different skills.
> >
> > In most cases they aren't even very good
> > salespeople and there aren't a lot of sales
> skills
> > required. They just happen to be the one who
> is
> > inserted into that sale.
>
> hilarious. Based on your command of logic,
> language and math I would recommend you dont need
> any help with your next home sale/purchase - do it
> all on your own. please.


Spoken with all of the depth of a typical agent. lol

None of which you can really argue.

Maybe watching one of the positive thinking motivational videos that you guys flock to will help you make a better argument.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: what on earth ()
Date: June 26, 2015 08:33PM

"inserting themselves unnecessarily as a third party to the transaction at an inordinate cost."

AND...

"They just happen to be the one who is
inserted into that sale."

You make it sound like a sale was well on its way to happening, and then all of the sudden against the will of the principals involved, the agent either "inserts" themselves into this almost finished deal, or, some other party inserts them into it.

Of course, not at all the way it happens.

They are contracted for usually well before anything has been done, by either the seller or the buyer and oftentimes both.

There is nothing at all that says a seller or buyer MUST contract with an agent, but yet, they still seem to do it.

It must be some type of conspiracy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: intelligible English ()
Date: June 26, 2015 08:36PM

"What I said was that whether a salesman's
cost/time is such that they make money on a
given sale and whether being an agent is worthwhile
overall for them as a profession, as was pointed
to by the other poster, isn't really a concern
of the seller or buyer."

Apparently writing intelligible English isnt a concern to you...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: questionnn ()
Date: June 26, 2015 08:36PM

So I'm selling my $600k home soon. What does the listing agent do, besides put my house on the MLS?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: AMA re agent ()
Date: June 26, 2015 08:50PM

July 2005 - "Is it a good time to buy now?" - Of course!


Is right now a good time to buy?


Of course, why yes it's a great time to buy!! Hurry up before you're priced out of the market!


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: real estate agent or economist ()
Date: June 26, 2015 08:56PM

There is such a thing as being a smart consumer.

That might include not looking for economic advice everywhere.

Kind of akin to asking a barber if they think you need a haircut.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 26, 2015 09:49PM

what on earth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "inserting themselves unnecessarily as a third
> party to the transaction at an inordinate cost."
>
> AND...
>
> "They just happen to be the one who is
> inserted into that sale."
>
> You make it sound like a sale was well on its way
> to happening, and then all of the sudden against
> the will of the principals involved, the agent
> either "inserts" themselves into this almost
> finished deal, or, some other party inserts them
> into it.
>
> Of course, not at all the way it happens.
>
> They are contracted for usually well before
> anything has been done, by either the seller or
> the buyer and oftentimes both.


Obviously they insert themselves prior to any specific deal being done. But, despite what many believe, rarely are they responsible for actually making the sale. They are, in most cases, middlemen who facilitate a transaction which would happen otherwise rather than "selling" much of anything or anyone.

As a seller's agent most of what salesmanship is involved comes in getting the listing, not in any selling between buyer and seller. In many cases that's not even done by the same agent who handles the listing.

On the other side, something like +75% of buyers now find the house that they eventually buy themselves rather than as a result of an agent. In fact, if a buyer's agent is actively "selling" a buyer on a house, then they're likely serving their own interests more that those of the buyer. (Which is another issue with how the system tends to work, but that's a separate matter.)

>
> There is nothing at all that says a seller or
> buyer MUST contract with an agent, but yet, they
> still seem to do it.
>
> It must be some type of conspiracy.


Legacy markets with vested interests structured in a way which makes it difficult for someone from outside to act within independently are rather common and really don't need to involve any conspiracy.

And for the record, I'm not saying that there aren't some great, very successful agents out there. Clearly there are. There also are specific circumstances which benefit from having an agent involved. But most typical, routine "median" transactions don't really involve or require either in most cases. The bulk of the market very easily could operate on a much more direct basis and using a fee-for-service model at a much lower cost. As many other similar markets which once relied on similar third-party middlemen now do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: June 26, 2015 10:06PM

questionnn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I'm selling my $600k home soon. What does the
> listing agent do, besides put my house on the MLS?

Depends on the agent. A good one will do some marketing, send post cards, hold open houses, advise you on improvements and staging, and pay for quality pro pictures.

If you get multiple offers, they'll give you advice on which is best (example, highest isn't always best if financing is questionable). They'll represent you and go through the contingencies with you, and make sure the contract doesn't fall apart for stupid stuff. If your buyer's home inspector is a jerk and writes up BS, your realtor will be able to help sort through the real fixes that need to be made from others. They'll know vendors who can quickly get your inspection deficiencies squared away. If it's something you can't or won't do, they'll let you know about options, like lower the price a bit to get out of the repaving the driveway.

I've been through this a few times, sometimes with somewhat inept Realtors, other times with good ones. A good one will make a large and complex transaction as smooth as possible and less stressful.

This doesn't mean the Redfin model is good or bad, it only means you want a good Realtor. At least I do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: FSBO all my homes - RE investor ()
Date: June 26, 2015 11:39PM

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> questionnn Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So I'm selling my $600k home soon. What does
> the
> > listing agent do, besides put my house on the
> MLS?
>
> Depends on the agent. A good one will do some
> marketing, send post cards, hold open houses,
> advise you on improvements and staging, and pay
> for quality pro pictures.

99% of the marketing is just putting it on the MLS. From there all the sites like zillow, and such will index your home. You can do a open house yourself, but if it's priced fairly, this won't even be needed.

>
> If you get multiple offers, they'll give you
> advice on which is best (example, highest isn't
> always best if financing is questionable). They'll
> represent you and go through the contingencies
> with you, and make sure the contract doesn't fall
> apart for stupid stuff. If your buyer's home
> inspector is a jerk and writes up BS, your realtor
> will be able to help sort through the real fixes
> that need to be made from others. They'll know
> vendors who can quickly get your inspection
> deficiencies squared away. If it's something you
> can't or won't do, they'll let you know about
> options, like lower the price a bit to get out of
> the repaving the driveway.
>

Reading offers, and dealing with a home inspector - that will be $35,000


It's pretty obvious to tell a good offer from a bad one. Lets see, do I want someone who's putting down 20% with a 5% EMD or some niggardly peasant who's offering $5k more but putting down 3.5% and scraping up a 2% EMD on their credit cards.

Hurrrrr eerrrr durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr let me advise that will be $35k.

As for the home inspector that's why you put it as "as-is". The home inspection is FYI only. Even then, you can quite easily tell the home inspector to eat shit if they ask for crazy requests. Usually it's just bullshit, like you have some exposed wires, put in a box.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Hurrr Derrr, My Ass ()
Date: June 27, 2015 12:59AM

^ You're an idiot. And an arrogant one at that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: gobblydogook ()
Date: June 27, 2015 07:06AM

"Legacy markets with vested interests structured in a way which makes it difficult for someone from outside to act within independently are rather common and really don't need to involve any conspiracy."

What are you talking about?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: June 27, 2015 08:46AM

FSBO all my homes - RE investor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> As for the home inspector that's why you put it as
> "as-is". The home inspection is FYI only. Even
> then, you can quite easily tell the home inspector
> to eat shit if they ask for crazy requests.
> Usually it's just bullshit, like you have some
> exposed wires, put in a box.

As-is was awesome back in 2004-05, but you won't sell (at full price) with that requirement in this market.

Too many homes on the market without as-is.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: its a tautology ()
Date: June 27, 2015 11:43AM

yes sirrreeeee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pcvwh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > yes sirrreeeee Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > pHVPD Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > >
> > > > Holy cow you are an idiot. Case in point
> you
> > > > mention that 3% commission was more
> > reasonable
> > > > when houses cost 20-100k - you do
> understand
> > > > inflation dont you. No you dont.
> > >
> > > You're the idiot who doesn't understand the
> the
> > > effect of percentages with larger vs smaller
> > > numbers independent of inflation. And as far
> > as
> > > inflation goes:
> > >
> > > $100K x .06 = $6,000
> > > $550K x .06 = $33,000
> > >
> > > Using BLS CPI, $6,000 in 1980 dollars =
> > $17,315.90
> > > in 2015 dollars.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What an salesman makes isnt the concern of
> > the
> > > > buyer or seller - are you high? It
> certainly
> > > is
> > > > the concern of the seller. By the way 100%
> > > > commission compensation rewards only sales.
>
> > > You
> > > > dont sell you make nothing. seems brutally
> > > fair
> > > > to me.
> > >
> > >
> > > What I said was that whether a salesman's
> > > cost/time is such that they make money on a
> > given
> > > sale and whether being an agent is worthwhile
> > > overall for them as a profession, as was
> > pointed
> > > to by the other poster, isn't really a
> concern
> > of
> > > the seller or buyer. The latter aren't in it
> > to
> > > make a living for the agent.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I will agree that agents can be fairly
> > > dimwitted.
> > > > This is true in any sales profession though
> > as
> > > > performance is not based on intellect but
> > > rather
> > > > ability to sell. Very different skills.
> > >
> > > In most cases they aren't even very good
> > > salespeople and there aren't a lot of sales
> > skills
> > > required. They just happen to be the one who
> > is
> > > inserted into that sale.
> >
> > hilarious. Based on your command of logic,
> > language and math I would recommend you dont
> need
> > any help with your next home sale/purchase - do
> it
> > all on your own. please.
>
>
> Spoken with all of the depth of a typical agent.
> lol
>
> None of which you can really argue.
>
> Maybe watching one of the positive thinking
> motivational videos that you guys flock to will
> help you make a better argument.

why argue with the statement that 1980 dollars are different from 2015 dollars after they are adjusted for inflation - its a tautology.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: WvXPD ()
Date: June 27, 2015 11:44AM

what on earth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "inserting themselves unnecessarily as a third
> party to the transaction at an inordinate cost."
>
> AND...
>
> "They just happen to be the one who is
> inserted into that sale."
>
> You make it sound like a sale was well on its way
> to happening, and then all of the sudden against
> the will of the principals involved, the agent
> either "inserts" themselves into this almost
> finished deal, or, some other party inserts them
> into it.
>
> Of course, not at all the way it happens.
>
> They are contracted for usually well before
> anything has been done, by either the seller or
> the buyer and oftentimes both.
>
> There is nothing at all that says a seller or
> buyer MUST contract with an agent, but yet, they
> still seem to do it.
>
> It must be some type of conspiracy.

he is an idiot dont bother

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: They hide under the table ()
Date: June 27, 2015 11:46AM

questionnn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I'm selling my $600k home soon. What does the
> listing agent do, besides put my house on the MLS?


do it yourself - problem solved. Write 'buyer pays agent commission' in the listing. Just beware of the agents lurking waiting to write their names into the settlement docs. They hide under the table by your feet.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: mEuFm ()
Date: June 27, 2015 11:51AM

"Legacy markets with vested interests structured in a way which makes it difficult for someone from outside to act within independently are rather common"

Wow. Please define 'Legacy Market.' You know how agents find properties about to be sold - they canvass the markets. There is nothing preventing prospective buyers from doing the same to look for houses. Nothing.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Lets be honest ()
Date: June 27, 2015 12:32PM

'As for the home inspector that's why you put it as "as-is". The home inspection is FYI only. Even then, you can quite easily tell the home inspector to eat shit if they ask for crazy requests. Usually it's just bullshit, like you have some exposed wires, put in a box.'

...because 'exposed wires' is such bullshit. 'as is' clauses certainly worked during the bubble - now not so much. Lenders will require a home inspection. If you market a home 'as is' in this market you will get a significantly lower price for your house. You sound like someone that is just too smart to have an agent and believe me the agents will be glad to steer clear of you. Basically you are the type of person that is an anti-deal maker. Lets be honest here - you have never fully owned, bought or sold a home.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 27, 2015 02:03PM

mEuFm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Legacy markets with vested interests structured
> in a way which makes it difficult for someone from
> outside to act within independently are rather
> common"
>
> Wow. Please define 'Legacy Market.' You know how
> agents find properties about to be sold - they
> canvass the markets. There is nothing preventing
> prospective buyers from doing the same to look for
> houses. Nothing.


In the case of the real estate industry specifically, read and learn:

http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/real_estate/enforce.html
http://www.sixthcircuitappellateblog.com/recent-cases/real-estate-website-found-anticompetitive/
http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/11a0084p-06.pdf
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2009/01/ftc-charges-pittsburgh-area-mls-illegally-restraining-competition


Along with numerous examples of collusion among agents not to deal with FSBO properties, collusion with associated service providers not to provide required services, price-fixing, steering, anti-rebate/discount provisions, minimum service requirements, etc., etc.

The real estate industry has been the subject of many court and regulatory actions for various anti-competitive practices, losing when challenged in virtually every case because... wait for it... the various practices employed are anti-competitive attempts to preserve and protect its own interests over those of consumers and other outsiders who represent threats to the status quo. e.g., The only reason that they finally had to open up the MLS systems (mostly anyway) after fighting that was a result of being forced to by the courts. There still are various anti-competitive restrictions imposed with respect to that in many cases.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: FSBO all my homes - RE investor ()
Date: June 27, 2015 02:04PM

I see the butt-hurt realtors have been posting. I have saved myself hundreds of thousands in realtor fees by doing all the sales myself.

As-is is just fine, if the house is in not the greatest condition. You price it accordingly with a realtor or without. As-Is clauses work just fine, recently bought a SFH in fair condition from a couple who did not have any cash to fix thing ups. Got a conventional loan on it without a single fucking problem.

Exposed wires are bull shit fixes, you want my house?!? You pay the fucking $4 at home depot to buy a receptacle box once you own the home. Too hard for you? Eat shit, and fuck off punter.

When you're no longer needed, you can go back to selling used cars, peasants.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: tinfoilhatty ()
Date: June 27, 2015 03:47PM

everyone put on a tinfoilhat to protect you from the evil realtors. If they find you selling or buying a house on your own they will steal your shoes and set fire to your sofa...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 27, 2015 03:52PM

its a tautology Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> why argue with the statement that 1980 dollars are
> different from 2015 dollars after they are
> adjusted for inflation - its a tautology.


What? I didn't argue that they were different beyond the dollar values in real terms. In fact, just the opposite - I showed the equivalent values and gave the conversion and what the difference amounts to.

It was said that inflation made up the difference in the cost between then and now. That's not true.

You don't pay for things in "percentages." You pay for things in dollars. The percentage of sales price simply serves as an arbitrary basis to calculate some associated dollar amount representing the cost/value assigned to whatever services are purchased. That is, at some point in time it was determined that ~6% was a roughly reasonable basis (given the respective ability and limitations of buyer and seller to drive the pricing) as the value for services provided by an agent. There is nothing which requires that commissions must be 6% (or whatever other number) or that the value of some specific service provided is necessarily worth .N% of the sales price of a home. It was simply an assignment of some rough dollar amount representing fair value at some point in time.

Whether you view it as high or low or whatever, at 6% the cost for selling a median ~$100K home in 1980 was ~$6,000. Beyond serving as a basis for reaching that dollar value, the 6% itself is irrelevant. The equivalent value of $6K in 2015 dollars is about $17K.

In 2015 that same (again arbitrary) 6% of a ~$550K median price = ~$33K.

The delta between $33K and $17K reflects the extent to which median home prices have increased at a rate greater than inflation NOT any necessarily associated increase or decrease in the actual value of services provided. i.e., If the cost/fair value of X units of service in 1980 was $1, then the value today would be ~$2.89 based on inflation alone, not ~$5.61 based on the relative difference over the same time in median home prices.

Furthermore, it doesn't account for changes over time which affect the value of the same services provided. For example, back then as a buyer if you wanted to know what properties were offered for sale, then you basically had to go through an agent. That's no longer the case so the true value of a buyer's agent in that respect has been greatly diminished.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: 6VWj6 ()
Date: June 27, 2015 04:22PM

Like it or not 100% commission sales compensation is awarded based on outcome/results not amount of time or effort. Work 1000 hours and dont sell you get zero. Work 1 hour and sell and you get 33k or whatever. Is it fair sales persons get no compensation from work when they dont sell? dont like it dont purchase or sell things with commissioned compensation involved.

btw your 100k in 1980 and 550k prices are from which data?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 27, 2015 05:36PM

6VWj6 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like it or not 100% commission sales compensation
> is awarded based on outcome/results not amount of
> time or effort. Work 1000 hours and dont sell you
> get zero. Work 1 hour and sell and you get 33k or
> whatever. Is it fair sales persons get no
> compensation from work when they dont sell? dont
> like it dont purchase or sell things with
> commissioned compensation involved.


I don't care one way or another whether a commission basis is fair or not.

>
> btw your 100k in 1980 and 550k prices are from
> which data?


Just numbers that I pulled quickly. I'm sure that you can find others somewhat higher or lower but for ballpark purposes as used they're roughly correct.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/demogrph/gendemo.htm

For 2014:
"Single Family Detached Units $557,678"

I don't recall now where I pulled the ~$100K. You can see that it's roughly correct by the nationwide median of $67K. As today, being somewhat higher around here. VA median in 1980 was $48K with NoVA typically being about double the state number. State-wide the median now is ~$250K.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: PV4t9 ()
Date: June 28, 2015 12:27PM

"I don't care one way or another whether a commission basis is fair or not. " Literally the entire premise of your diatribe is the equity of real estate agent compensation.

So if you dont care what is all this about? You dont care if commission basis is fair so if its too much or too little you dont care. What agents make is of no concern to you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 28, 2015 02:34PM

PV4t9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I don't care one way or another whether a
> commission basis is fair or not. " Literally the
> entire premise of your diatribe is the equity of
> real estate agent compensation.
>
> So if you dont care what is all this about? You
> dont care if commission basis is fair so if its
> too much or too little you dont care. What agents
> make is of no concern to you.


Nope. What I've said from the start is that what happens for better or worse on the agent side is of little to no concern to seller and buyer regardless how it may be structured. Despite some seeming to think that agents are somehow actually entitled to make substantial money and a good standard of living as third parties to such transactions simply because they exist as agents, that's not the case. Buyers/sellers don't care whether an agent only makes 1% of the 6% that they pay. They don't care that brokerages on both sides need to make 2.5% to cover their costs and generate a nice profit. They only are concerned with the 6% (or whatever) bottom line number is as a cost to them.

The entire premise of my "diatribe" is that the percent-of-gross basis for typical transaction is an inappropriate, unrealistic, and far too expensive model to reach that bottom line number given prices today, changes in information availability, and other aspects of how the market works. It's completely independent of the value of the services provided. It was questionable in the past to begin with. It's even more so now relative to the value of what's delivered.

Even independent of higher current prices, the model doesn't work from the consumer's perspective but favors that of the agent. A simple example to illustrate the point. Where I live there are two sections of homes all built at the same time by the same builder. All the same design and floor plan and built to the same specs. The only difference is the lot size. Go across the street and the lots are close to 50% larger. Neighborhood legend being that this was due to some difference in zoning requirements at the time. Since land value is a large part of valuations around here, houses on one side of the street sell for say $650K-$750K, while houses on the other side sell for $850K-$950K. There is no more cost or effort required to sell one vs the other. In fact, if anything the more expensive houses seem to move faster and easier since there are fewer of them and larger lots like that are more difficult to find in this area. Now explain to me in any objective way why agents should make a ~$12K premium from sellers of the more expensive?

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: We all have a choice ()
Date: June 28, 2015 08:13PM

yes sirrreeeee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
me " Literally the
> entire premise of your diatribe is the equity of
> real estate agent compensation."

You: "the entire premise of my "diatribe" is that the percent-of-gross basis for typical transaction is an inappropriate, unrealistic, and far too expensive model to reach that bottom line number given prices today, changes in information availability, and other aspects of how the market works. It's completely independent of the value of the services provided. It was questionable in the past to begin with. It's even more so now relative to the value of what's delivered."

You are describing the equity of the transaction. You do care about it. You argue about it.

Inflation-adjusted houses cost the same as they used to post bubble so the 6% now is greater than 6% then argument is out the window. The only thing you have said that makes sense is the nature of the available information.

Because its in the sellers best interest to disseminate information to the largest audience and given the fact that now, with the internet, everyone has access to that information in real-time + 24 hours the value of brokers having access to the info is lessened.

In a sellers market you dont hardly need to list or even advertise. I sold my condo in Arlington in 2003 by literally printing a flyer and posting it on my door and writing 'open Ste.__" on the sidewalk with my kids chalk (there was a listing on the bottom floor of my 3 story walk-up). I had people coming out of the woodwork with offers and even had the TV show 'House Hunters' filming me within 24 hours - it was surreal. I had no broker and the agent for the buyer was paid by the buyer.

We all have a choice to hire and pay agents. Dont want to dont do it. No sense arguing about how 'fair' life is. Oh and lots of times an agent is a great investment.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: yes sirrreeeee ()
Date: June 28, 2015 10:38PM

We all have a choice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yes sirrreeeee Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> me " Literally the
> > entire premise of your diatribe is the equity
> of
> > real estate agent compensation."
>
> You: "the entire premise of my "diatribe" is that
> the percent-of-gross basis for typical transaction
> is an inappropriate, unrealistic, and far too
> expensive model to reach that bottom line number
> given prices today, changes in information
> availability, and other aspects of how the market
> works. It's completely independent of the value of
> the services provided. It was questionable in the
> past to begin with. It's even more so now relative
> to the value of what's delivered."
>
> You are describing the equity of the transaction.
> You do care about it. You argue about it.


I'm not "arguing." I'm correcting your continued attempt to change what I've said into what you seem to want me to be saying so that you can argue with it. I'm not even sure WTF you're even trying to argue about anymore. lol

I'm describing the basis for the calculation of the cost and the value received for that cost. Period.

The original tangent that you went off on as far as that goes was related to the fairness of a commission-based compensation model for an agent. I don't care how agents are compensated. I don't care to what extent they are compensated. I don't care whether working 1000 hours and getting nothing as you gave is "fair" or not from their perspective. I don't care whether any involvement in the sale is an equitable arrangement from their standpoint. All of that is on their side and their concern, not mine.

As a seller or buyer the only thing that I really care about is the cost to me. Whether they are paid hourly, as a flat fee, or on a commission basis, how that may be split, makes no difference to me. The bottom line number and what value is provided for that cost is what matters to me. Period.


>
> Inflation-adjusted houses cost the same as they
> used to post bubble so the 6% now is greater than
> 6% then argument is out the window. The only
> thing you have said that makes sense is the nature
> of the available information.
>


^ This is incoherent babble.

No, as I explained above, $100K x .06 is not the same as $550K x .06 adjusted for inflation. In fact, the difference is close to twice the level of inflation.



> Because its in the sellers best interest to
> disseminate information to the largest audience
> and given the fact that now, with the internet,
> everyone has access to that information in
> real-time + 24 hours the value of brokers having
> access to the info is lessened.
>
> In a sellers market you dont hardly need to list
> or even advertise. I sold my condo in Arlington
> in 2003 by literally printing a flyer and posting
> it on my door and writing 'open Ste.__" on the
> sidewalk with my kids chalk (there was a listing
> on the bottom floor of my 3 story walk-up). I had
> people coming out of the woodwork with offers and
> even had the TV show 'House Hunters' filming me
> within 24 hours - it was surreal. I had no broker
> and the agent for the buyer was paid by the buyer.
>
>
> We all have a choice to hire and pay agents. Dont
> want to dont do it. No sense arguing about how
> 'fair' life is. Oh and lots of times an agent is
> a great investment.


I never made any argument with respect to whether life was fair. That came from you. My point was regarding the cost, the basis for that cost, and the value received. Questioning the same for any product or service, whether it's a real estate agent or someone else who wants to base the cost of a plumbing job, cutting my lawn, or some other service on the value of the property, has little to nothing to do with whether life is fair.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Negotiation Station ()
Date: June 29, 2015 03:40PM

So essentially if you can negotiate with a realtor to get a 4% fee it's a better idea to use the realtor?

It seems Redfin is only more beneficial when a realtor won't budge on their fees...am I missing other benefits?

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: NEGOTIATETHISMOFO ()
Date: June 30, 2015 12:25AM

Negotiation Station Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So essentially if you can negotiate with a realtor
> to get a 4% fee it's a better idea to use the
> realtor?
>
> It seems Redfin is only more beneficial when a
> realtor won't budge on their fees...am I missing
> other benefits?


The thing is you don't negotiate "a realtor" to 4%. The "standard" is 3% for both sides. You pick your agent that represents you and maybe you can get them to agree to 2%. Chances are you are not going to get the selling agent to also just happily give up 33% of their commission on the deal. That puts you at 5% at best.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: still up to you ()
Date: June 30, 2015 05:01AM

Just because someone doesn't accept your desired terms doesn't mean that something isn't negotiable.

If a buyer's agent wants 3% and won't accept your 2%, you still have control.

Don't sell.

That buyer's agent then gets 0%.

Still free market.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Part time ()
Date: June 30, 2015 08:18AM

I'm a licensed real estate salesperson and do it part time. If someone wanted to negotiate down to 4% split 50/50 I'd take it.
No skin off of my ass, I typically do one transaction at a time and it's a good side income.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: vHhX6 ()
Date: June 30, 2015 10:18AM

How commission is set:

Seller wants the services of a Real Estate Agent. Seller interviews agents. Agent proposes terms including compensation. Most will propose a 5-6% commission of the sale price to be paid by the seller at settlement. In the event of a 'direct deal' agents usually propose 5-6% to the listing broker. In the even there is another 'co-operative' broker involved each is compensated with 3% of the sale price.

In most cases all agents are working for the owner. If you are a buyer looking at houses with a broker - that broker works for each of the prospective sellers not you. They have a fiduciary duty to the seller not you. You are the 'customer.' They are required to treat you 'fairly' but neither is advocating for a lower price or better terms for you the buyer.

You can hire a broker as a buyers agent and make them your fiduciary. Most people simply choose to be 'shown' properties and allow the owner sole representation by agents. Weird but that is the way it is.

The amount agents are paid is set by the seller. The seller agrees to pay commission not the agents. Sellers can set this from zero to 100% if they so choose. If you only want to pay someone $1,000 to sell your house interview as many as you like and propose those terms. No one is forced to hire or pay real estate agents, ever.

PS yessssuree is a troll - just look at how he writes.

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: Not a Redfin fan ()
Date: July 07, 2015 02:00PM

Contacted traditional Realtor and a Redfin Realtor. Traditional agent was responsive and available, unlike the person from Redfin. It seems that commission based agent is the way to go if you want good service, and a smooth sale at top price..

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Re: Redfin vs commission based Realtor
Posted by: fess up ()
Date: July 07, 2015 02:05PM

Not a Redfin fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Contacted traditional Realtor and a Redfin
> Realtor. Traditional agent was responsive and
> available, unlike the person from Redfin. It seems
> that commission based agent is the way to go if
> you want good service, and a smooth sale at top
> price..


So, how long have you been a realtor?

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