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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ***** ()
Date: February 16, 2016 08:47PM

?ACLU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Contact the ACLU. They follow up on student fee
> violations all the time.

Now isn't that tempting. I am sure it would make Mr. Foster's and Dr. Garza's day to have the ACLU contact them about double-charging students at McLean.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: (6) ()
Date: February 19, 2016 09:07AM

(6)

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Fuck you, Oborona ()
Date: February 19, 2016 12:09PM

.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ?ACLU ()
Date: February 19, 2016 01:03PM

https://www.gov.ca.gov/news.php?id=16693

Have you contacted the ACLU yet?

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Man of note ()
Date: February 19, 2016 01:06PM

Say yes to music programs.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ?ACLU ()
Date: February 19, 2016 01:27PM

If districts charge illegal fees, the new law also provides for a modified uniform complaint process at schools so parents and students may resolve their concerns locally without costly litigation. Public school districts must establish this complaint process by March 1. (California)

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: pop bumper ()
Date: February 19, 2016 01:42PM

bumper cars

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ()
Date: February 19, 2016 01:56PM

?ACLU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If districts charge illegal fees, the new law also
> provides for a modified uniform complaint process
> at schools so parents and students may resolve
> their concerns locally without costly litigation.
> Public school districts must establish this
> complaint process by March 1. (California)

Note- "costly litigation".

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Loser pays ()
Date: February 19, 2016 02:32PM

...and the ACLU rarely loses.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Fuck you, Oborona ()
Date: February 19, 2016 03:02PM

m3myH

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: pop bumper ()
Date: February 19, 2016 03:59PM

PeuvM

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: alsoknewofthem ()
Date: February 19, 2016 04:14PM

It's time FCPS became uber-efficient with regenerated transitional resources. Standing idly by and not cascading memos will never change their ambient digital mobility. Music must never come second!

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Fuck you, Oborona ()
Date: February 19, 2016 06:18PM

Kdd39

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ***** ()
Date: February 19, 2016 09:15PM

Since we are on a new page, let's summarize this.

McLean HS charged Marching Band students both a course fee AND an activity fee for the exact same thing-after school rehearsals. The activity fee was used to pay extra instructors, for the after school rehearsals.

Marching Band is listed as curricular in the course catalog.

FCPS is allowed to charge a COURSE FEE for Marching Band consumables because Marching Band is curricular, and McLean did this.

McLean HS received appropriated funds for Marching Band because it is curricular.

Courses ("curricular" stuff) started the first day of school. They include things outside of school. Like after school rehearsals. For Marching Band and everything else.

FCPS is not allowed to charge for extra instructors for a curricular event. That is in the Virginia Administrative Code. You can't charge extra for instruction. Just for consumables. They know that.

Mr. Weise tried to justify this by telling the Comptroller the kids didn't have to come to after school rehearsals. They were optional. He didn't care if they showed up or not. Seriously! You could have just showed up on Friday night and Saturday and marched. No problem! The school system is using this as an excuse to charge for extra instructors. They say Marching Band is an activity, not curricular, even though they are charging a course fee for it, it is in the course catalog, they get appropriated funds for it, etc. So, they are charging a course fee AND an activity fee for the exact same thing-the after school rehearsals, which is double-charging. It is like a server putting an extra steak dinner on your tab. A steak dinner you didn't order. And then the manager tries to talk their way out of taking it off your tab by saying "it was for a good cause".

But, Mr. Weise told the parents and students the rehearsals were mandatory. IN WRITING. M-A-N-D-A-T-O-R-Y. The opposite of optional. The exact opposite of what he told the Comptroller!


Mr. Weise also told everybody last year Jazz Band was an optional activity, and charged an activity fee to pay for the extra instructor, when Jazz Band was listed in the course catalog as a course. You can't charge kids for the instructor for a class. Nice. He tried to call this class an activity again this year. The syllabus had to be updated.

You can't call a class an activity in order to do whatever you want. A class is a class. An activity is an activity. They are two very different things. An activity is like a trip to Disney or a summer camp. A class is something in the course catalog. Like Marching Band.

This story is now all over the state, including the state legislature and the Board of Education down in Richmond, the press, etc. It was suggested in this thread to turn this in to the ACLU, who apparently really, really does not like kids being inappropriately charged for classes. They took on "Ahnold" out in California and sued his ass off and won. Apparently FCPS would rather face this than apologizing and paying back 170 kids and their parents. Maybe they would also be interested in the story of how the school system was allowing Booster clubs to demand money from families for public school courses and spent five frigging years trying to fix it.

I wonder how much it would cost the taxpayers if the ACLU or somebody else sued FCPS? Probably a lot. Probably a lot more than paying back those kids and their parents. FCPS really hates bad publicity. They would get a LOT of that if they were sued for overcharging kids and their parents. They got a lot of it when they tried to make kids pay for their mandatory AP tests.


"Moving forward......"

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: check your facts ()
Date: February 20, 2016 08:15AM

Marching band is NOT in the course catalog. It is NOT a class and there is NO credit given for participating. IT is an activity just like football, swimming, crew etc.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Facts Checked ()
Date: February 20, 2016 01:44PM

check your facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marching band is NOT in the course catalog. It is
> NOT a class and there is NO credit given for
> participating. IT is an activity just like
> football, swimming, crew etc.


Marching Band IS in the course catalog. Look again. Marching Band techniques are taught as part of Symphonic Band, etc. It is curricular.

If Marching Band was an activity, they would not be able to charge a COURSE fee for it for consumables. Think it through.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Wrong! ()
Date: February 20, 2016 01:49PM

Most of what you are saying about McLean is wrong in that large post above, so do not believe anything that Barbara Brown writes. Mr. Weise never said these things to the students, parents or comptrollers office. My kids are members of this program. It has changed their lives. He is the reason for that. I have known him and worked closely with him for years as a parent in the program. We are not being ripped off. I can tell you this account is all incorrect and misrepresented by Ms. Brown for the purpose of proving her delusional arguments.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ***** ()
Date: February 20, 2016 02:48PM

Wrong! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of what you are saying about McLean is wrong
> in that large post above, so do not believe
> anything that Barbara Brown writes. Mr. Weise
> never said these things to the students, parents
> or comptrollers office. My kids are members of
> this program. It has changed their lives. He is
> the reason for that. I have known him and worked
> closely with him for years as a parent in the
> program. We are not being ripped off. I can tell
> you this account is all incorrect and
> misrepresented by Ms. Brown for the purpose of
> proving her delusional arguments.


Mr. Weise is undoubtedly a wonderful teacher. Band is a wonderful class. However, he sent out a letter to the families telling them that Marching Band rehearsals were mandatory. That was already posted. He told the Comptroller they were optional. He told the families Jazz Band class was an optional FCPS activity last year and that the activity fee he was charging was to pay the Jazz Band instructor. He called after school Marching Band rehearsals an FCPS optional activity. The course catalog indicates they are part of the course. It is all right in the syllabi. It is what it is.

The extra instructors were most assuredly very helpful, but they cannot charge the families for instruction for a course. Only consumables. Virginia Administrative Code.

Marching Band is part of a course. See the next post.

Band can still change your life. You just have to charge for it legally. It's a class.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ***** ()
Date: February 20, 2016 02:58PM

McLean course catalog-

Advanced Band Level 1 and 2-

"Marching Band techniques, rehearsals, and performances are included in this course." "Students must meet both the school day and outside of the school day participation requirements to receive credit for the course." Now, if Mr. Weise actually did waive the after school rehearsal requirement for Marching Band, that still doesn't make Marching Band an activity. He just waived some requirements.

N5922-

VII. The Marching Band fee is for a class. See the first paragraph? It is for consumables. Actual cost, maximum of $300.


You don't see football, swimming, baseball, etc. in the course catalog. You don't see trips to Disney in the course catalog. Because they are optional activities. You don't see fees for sports in the Fee Notice. Because they aren't classes.

Big differences.

You can't charge an activity fee and a course fee for the exact same thing. The parents were charged for extra instruction for after school Marching Band rehearsals, and were also charged a course fee for Marching Band. This is not in keeping with the VAC.
Attachments:
MB_is_a_class.pdf

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ***** ()
Date: February 20, 2016 03:18PM

Page 3 is blank.

Local schools shall not charge fees for instructional programs and activities (which Marching Band clearly is) except as specified in subsection H.

No mention of being allowed to charge students a fee for additional instructors for an instructional program or activity in subsection H. Just consumables, instruments, etc.

It's all there.

McLean inappropriately charged the Marching Band families. I know you all love this program, but you really must stop being delusional and look at the facts and laws pertaining to these courses. There are laws for a reason. To protect families whose children are in public schools from people who are totally out of control with their desires/aspirations/etc. You don't like them, put your children in private school.

You can still have extra instructors for your classes (and Marching Band after school rehearsals). You will just have to come up with the money from something other than charging students a fee for them.

Wasn't McLean Band the group that had an attorney and a bunch of "really smart parents" who thought they knew everything there was to know about school law and tried to tell the school system they didn't have the right to change the system in order to comply with school policies and state laws? I think there were lots of those, actually.

Oh well.
Attachments:
8VAC20_720_80.pdf

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ***** ()
Date: February 20, 2016 03:38PM

"Mr. Weise never said these things to the students, parents or comptrollers office."
----------------


So you are saying the Comptroller lied?

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: McLeanparent20166 ()
Date: February 20, 2016 03:43PM

Obviously Barbs rants about McLean are not getting her anywhere. Why not go after Langley's band or Madison. Those principals won't know the rules around band fees. The best part of this is that McLeans admin and director do know the rules so Barb isn't making any headway. Leave us alone and go bark up another tree. If Barb makes us lose our director because he is tired of being harassed then this community of lawyers will serve her papers...

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ***** ()
Date: February 20, 2016 04:03PM

Your director doesn't need to be removed from their job.
FCPS just needs to make restitution for what McLean did to these families, fix their policies, and move on.
McLean very inappropriately charged students for Marching Band. This is very obvious.

Langley and Madison have also had their moments of fame. Not to worry.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Do it, please! ()
Date: February 20, 2016 04:49PM

McLeanparent20166 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Barb makes us lose our
> director because he is tired of being harassed
> then this community of lawyers will serve her
> papers...

DO IT. PLEASE! The entire music community in Fairfax will rejoice!

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Dilbert ()
Date: February 20, 2016 05:27PM

Barb Brown defending the poor families of McLean is like Elbonia defending Europe.

(They don't need your help, lady.)

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ***** ()
Date: February 20, 2016 07:19PM

Dilbert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Barb Brown defending the poor families of McLean
> is like Elbonia defending Europe.
>
> (They don't need your help, lady.)


Granted, most of the families at McLean can well afford to be bilked and illegally overcharged for a class.

The problem is that all the other 99 programs at 25 high schools are going to try to do the exact same thing.

It s against the law to charge kids for extra instructors for a class. Extra instructors are not a consumable.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ***** ()
Date: February 20, 2016 07:22PM

Do it, please! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McLeanparent20166 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If Barb makes us lose our
> > director because he is tired of being harassed
> > then this community of lawyers will serve her
> > papers...
>
> DO IT. PLEASE! The entire music community in
> Fairfax will rejoice!


If this teacher loses their job it is between them and Dr. Garza and the School Board. They stand more of a chance of keeping it if the school system admits they goofed and offers restitution to the families. This is Ellen Reilly's responsibility, BTW.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: 56787542 ()
Date: February 20, 2016 07:52PM

***** Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Mr. Weise never said these things to the
> students, parents or comptrollers office."
> ----------------
>
>
> So you are saying the Comptroller lied?


I am willing to state under oath in a court of law that on Wednesday, January 13, 2016, in room 4140 at Gatehouse, at 11 am, the FCPS Comptroller and Keith Taylor both told me Mr. Weise said that his after school marching rehearsals were completely optional. They also said that in spite of FCPS charging a COURSE fee for Marching Band, that it was an optional FCPS activity.

Mr. Taylor also said TJ's director said after school rehearsals were completely optional, and the Comptroller was sent a copy of a correspondence to the families from the TJ director saying they were mandatory. So, there are at least two directors supposedly telling two very different stories. Are there any more?

The Comptroller was also sent a copy of the correspondence from Mr. Weise very clearly telling the McLean families that all rehearsals were required, including the optional summer camp. They were also sent a copy of the course catalog very clearly showing Marching Band is indeed part of the regular Band classes. Nobody seems to be able to communicate a rational explanation for any of this.

And Dr. Garza and Pat Hynes know about all of this. They are ultimately responsible for all of this.

You can't make this stuff up. It really is beyond belief, but that's the way it is!!! There are some really confused people in FCPS.

They really expected me to believe all of this. Right....... The world is flat. The Pope isn't Catholic. George Washington is still alive.

I would bet the ACLU or a judge would have a great time with this. Thanks for the suggestion.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: 56787542 ()
Date: February 21, 2016 08:15AM

Lest there be any doubt-


First attachment-The Comptroller said Mr. Weise told him all after school rehearsals were optional. The letter he set out in May 2015 says all rehearsals are required. The 2014 information says the kids are "expected" to attend all rehearsals and that they take precedence over any other school club or activity. One definition of "expected" is "required". And Marching Band is NOT an activity, anyway. It is part of the curriculum. That is why it takes precedence.

Second attachment-Keith Taylor said the TJ Band Director makes after school rehearsals optional. See pages 5 and 6 of the attachment. These don't look very optional. None of the rehearsals look very optional. The Band Director has the parents and students sign an agreement saying they understand this. Did you folks think any of these rehearsals were optional? Speak up.
Attachments:
McLeanBandrehearsals.pdf
TJ Documents2015.pdf

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Sir Walter ()
Date: February 21, 2016 10:10AM

Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!

Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.
Scottish author & novelist (1771 - 1832)

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: TgUhrdg ()
Date: February 21, 2016 12:05PM

***** Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do it, please! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > McLeanparent20166 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If Barb makes us lose our
> > > director because he is tired of being
> harassed
> > > then this community of lawyers will serve her
> > > papers...
> >
> > DO IT. PLEASE! The entire music community in
> > Fairfax will rejoice!
>
>
> If this teacher loses their job it is between them
> and Dr. Garza and the School Board. They stand
> more of a chance of keeping it if the school
> system admits they goofed and offers restitution
> to the families. This is Ellen Reilly's
> responsibility, BTW.


It really speaks to how mixed up a lot of people are when a school system illegally charges over 170 kids for a class by making up fantasy stories and then people claim the teacher is the victim and the school system refuses to reimburse parents.

This is like portraying a bank robber as some kind of a hero AND putting them on the payroll.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: (777) ()
Date: February 21, 2016 02:24PM


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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Get over it ()
Date: February 21, 2016 09:01PM

First of all. McLean marching band is optional after school activity - unless you are symphonic band. If they want to be in symphonic band then it is a requirement to be in marching band, and rehearsal are required. Students that do not want to be in marching band can be in one of the other ensembles . There are some very good musicians that choose this option.
Next, the parents of marching band students know that it takes money to be able to have a successful program. The parents are paying fees for some aspects and then fundraising for others. how do you know where the funds to cover additional instructors is coming from?
All the parents with students in music programs in FCPS know what is going on and do not need any one to stand up for them to get money back. They know where the funds go.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Bears repeating ()
Date: February 21, 2016 09:18PM

Get your tp, kids Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ch2ar8it0on5 st.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Belly of the Beast ()
Date: February 21, 2016 09:42PM

Bears repeating Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Get your tp, kids Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ch2ar8it0on5 st.


YES! That is where it resides!

Toilet paper
Poo pranks
Glitter bombs


Come on, kids. Get creative!

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ?ACLU ()
Date: February 21, 2016 09:53PM


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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Contact the ACLU ()
Date: February 21, 2016 09:57PM


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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Pete and Repeat ()
Date: February 21, 2016 11:14PM

Can you people stop whining on this forum? Act is old. Take your complaints to the source and move on.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ***** ()
Date: February 22, 2016 10:42AM

Get over it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all. McLean marching band is optional
> after school activity - unless you are symphonic
> band. If they want to be in symphonic band then
> it is a requirement to be in marching band, and
> rehearsal are required. Students that do not want
> to be in marching band can be in one of the other
> ensembles . There are some very good musicians
> that choose this option.

------>>Marching Band is NOT an activity, even if the kids in the lower bands opt to do it. It (techniques, rehearsals, and performances) is in the course catalog as part of the courses, with it listed as "may be included" the lower courses. All the kids pay the exact same course fee. Because it is a COURSE. No matter what band they are in. The school system has to fund the competitions using appropriated funds because they are part of the course. The letter from Mr. Weise did not say anything about the rehearsals being optional for ANYBODY. It very clearly said the rehearsals were required.



> Next, the parents of marching band students know
> that it takes money to be able to have a
> successful program. The parents are paying fees
> for some aspects and then fundraising for others.
> how do you know where the funds to cover
> additional instructors is coming from?

------>>>The records for the use of the "activity fee" that the MB parents paid were obtained and show that instructors were paid well after the day school started using these funds. The "activity fee" that covered the summer marching band camp (which IS an activity) was also applied to the instructors used after school started (which is the course portion of the program). You can't do that. They are two separate things. You can't change the name of a class to an activity so that you can do whatever you want. Next thing you know you will have History called an activity, and they will charge the kids for extra History teachers. You can't do that. Band isn't any different. It's a CLASS. Just like History. You can only charge for consumables, instrument rental, etc. Instructors aren't on The List.


> All the parents with students in music programs in
> FCPS know what is going on and do not need any one
> to stand up for them to get money back. They know
> where the funds go.

------>>>>Actually, most of the parents don't have a clue what is going on. It doesn't matter that they [think they] know where the funds go. What matters is that it is illegal to charge families for additional instructors for a course, which is what they are doing. The school system should care about this. Dr. Garza should not be allowing illegal student fees, and the School Board should hold her accountable for this. They are all napping, as usual.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ?ACLU ()
Date: February 22, 2016 01:12PM

Charging students illegal fees violates their constitutional rights to a free education.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: dum dee dum dum.... ()
Date: February 22, 2016 03:15PM


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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: stop feeding the troll ()
Date: February 22, 2016 07:02PM

Just as I said before, the troll will reiterate the same information to reset the thread, get a few people to protest, and then vehemently argue against any opinion that does not agree with the troll. Stop feeding the troll. Seriously. Ignore her posts

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Dx99w ()
Date: February 24, 2016 10:28AM

~~

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: tl-dr ()
Date: February 24, 2016 10:31AM

Can somebody give me a TLDR version of what this buffoon is rambling about?

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: summary ()
Date: February 24, 2016 10:42AM

OP was a parent volunteer at Oakton marching band. Did not fit in with the snobby elite crowd. Got pissed off about trip fees. Locked horns with band leadership. Felt insulted. Revenge is massive semi-annual FOIA on all music programs in FCPS then harassing admin, teachers, volunteers over interpretations of bureaucratic regulations.

Observed themes are that all admin, teachers and volunteers are diabolically evil and/or irretrievably stupid. OP has never been wrong about anything with regard to policy or manners but loves attention.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: tl-dr ()
Date: February 24, 2016 10:53AM

summary Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OP was a parent volunteer at Oakton marching band.
> Did not fit in with the snobby elite crowd. Got
> pissed off about trip fees. Locked horns with
> band leadership. Felt insulted. Revenge is
> massive semi-annual FOIA on all music programs in
> FCPS then harassing admin, teachers, volunteers
> over interpretations of bureaucratic regulations.
>
>
> Observed themes are that all admin, teachers and
> volunteers are diabolically evil and/or
> irretrievably stupid. OP has never been wrong
> about anything with regard to policy or manners
> but loves attention.


Thanks for the recap. Crazy there are people with this much free time to waste.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ------ ()
Date: February 24, 2016 11:39AM

FCPS is breaking the law on student fees and was for years.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: (5) ()
Date: February 24, 2016 12:48PM

It probably never occurred to anybody if the school system admitted they made a mistake and apologized to the McLean families OP might shut up.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Stop feeding Barb/Troll ()
Date: February 24, 2016 04:50PM

stop feeding the troll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just as I said before, the troll will reiterate
> the same information to reset the thread, get a
> few people to protest, and then vehemently argue
> against any opinion that does not agree with the
> troll. Stop feeding the troll. Seriously.
> Ignore her posts


Now that we've recapped, give her no more attention.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Terry L. ()
Date: February 24, 2016 05:01PM

(5) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It probably never occurred to anybody if the
> school system admitted they made a mistake and
> apologized to the McLean families OP might shut
> up.


No, it probably didn't.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Sbdkc ()
Date: February 24, 2016 05:02PM

Why was Barb allowed around children with her record?

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ^y8%4 ()
Date: February 24, 2016 08:02PM

Unlike many parents in these programs and the staff who are in charge of them, OP has never-

Lied.
Taken money that they weren't entitled to and made up stories to cover it up.
Broken school regulations.
Ignored school regulations.
Demanded money from people that they did not have the right to.
Ignored/violated state and Federal laws.
Threatened to vandalize somebody's house because they want to continue acting like this.

There are a LOT of people who should not be around children but OP is not one of them.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Pam H. ()
Date: February 24, 2016 08:07PM

Do you feel safe having your money and your children around people who make fake entries on student payment spreadsheets? Falsifying a public record?

A wonderful example to set for the kiddies, for sure.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Dear Pam H.- ()
Date: February 24, 2016 08:09PM

Pam H. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you feel safe having your money and your
> children around people who make fake entries on
> student payment spreadsheets? Falsifying a public
> record?
>
> A wonderful example to set for the kiddies, for
> sure.


Forging a public record, possessing any instrument for the purpose of creating a forged seal or stamp of approval from a public office or for making other forged documents, and forging a bank note or coin (including knowingly trying to use a forged note even if you did note create it) are all Class 4 felonies. Penalties include a fine of up to $100,000, at least two (and up to ten) years in prison, or both. (Va. Ann. Code §§ 18.2-168, -169 & -171.)

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: John B. ()
Date: February 24, 2016 08:39PM

"I liked having my Booster club steal money from families because then I could take the money I was entrusted with that was supposed to be spent on students and go to nice restaurants. I don't care about my staff's fraudulent travel claims, either. Go ahead and claim extra per diem and rent luxury hotel rooms. They'll never catch it. If they do, we'll cut a deal."

Just the type you want in charge of your school and around your kids.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: J. Foster ()
Date: February 25, 2016 06:43AM

Terry L. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (5) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It probably never occurred to anybody if the
> > school system admitted they made a mistake and
> > apologized to the McLean families OP might shut
> > up.
>
>
> No, it probably didn't.



Quite simply, I have advised Dr. Garza that her staff can make up any story they want in order to charge illegal student fees. I am currently writing a new policy that the only way parents can get a refund is to hire a lawyer.

Staff have the full backing of FCPS to be abusive to parents.

Fill those bank accounts, folks! You can do it. There will be a Grand Prize dinner at Morton's for the school team who manages to pull off the largest illegal fee.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Trevor ()
Date: February 27, 2016 09:01AM

Bump

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ^7^ ()
Date: February 27, 2016 12:05PM


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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Pkf43 ()
Date: February 29, 2016 07:20AM

£

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: 67Uht ()
Date: March 01, 2016 09:23AM

67Uht

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: v4tjx ()
Date: March 01, 2016 04:36PM

Sorry, lisah has the anti-FCPS momentum. Bumps not gonna help this thread.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Pkvmd ()
Date: March 02, 2016 08:49AM

Pkvmd

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McLean High School Marching Band
Posted by: ? of the Day ()
Date: March 02, 2016 08:09PM

Anybody care to venture a guess as to how and why Mr. Weise could tell the Comptroller after school rehearsals were completely optional when he had everybody sign a commitment form clearly agreeing to attend every rehearsal for McLean HS Marching Band?
Attachments:
McLeancommitmentform.pdf

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: McLean High School Marching Band
Posted by: Here we go again>>>>> ()
Date: March 03, 2016 07:38AM

? of the Day Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody care to venture a guess as to how and why
> Mr. Weise could tell the Comptroller after school
> rehearsals were completely optional when he had
> everybody sign a commitment form clearly agreeing
> to attend every rehearsal for McLean HS Marching
> Band?



“Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive”


Sir Walter Scott quotes (Scottish Novelist, Poet, Historian and Biographer, 1771-1832)

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Re: McLean High School Marching Band
Posted by: 132435465768798 ()
Date: March 04, 2016 07:01PM

13243546576879809

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Re: McLean High School Marching Band
Posted by: hot pants ()
Date: March 06, 2016 02:22PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: McLean High School Marching Band
Posted by: 9u8YT ()
Date: March 07, 2016 07:40PM

hot pants Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=liar+liar+pant
> s+on+fire&qpvt=liar+liar+pants+on+fire&qpvt=liar+l
> iar+pants+on+fire&FORM=IGRE


Yes, "thy pants have combusted" could have many applications in the McLean situation and others.

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Re: McLean High School Marching Band
Posted by: 9u8YT ()
Date: March 07, 2016 07:42PM

9u8YT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hot pants Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=liar+liar+pant
>
> >
> s+on+fire&qpvt=liar+liar+pants+on+fire&qpvt=liar+l
>
> > iar+pants+on+fire&FORM=IGRE
>
>
> Yes, "thy pants have combusted" could have many
> applications in the McLean situation and others.

As well as "thine trousers are aflame".
.

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Re: McLean High School Marching Band
Posted by: *__* ()
Date: March 09, 2016 06:24PM

So McLean has spent almost $100,000 on hourly instructors for "Marching Band", over $30,000 of it after Marching Band season was over. At least that is the way this report reads. They were specifically asked to break the Marching Band information out separately.

Almost $600 per student. And the school year isn't even over yet.
Attachments:
McLean MB appfunds2016.pdf

Options: ReplyQuote
?
Posted by: :-D ()
Date: March 09, 2016 07:32PM

*__* Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So McLean has spent almost $100,000 on hourly
> instructors for "Marching Band", over $30,000 of
> it after Marching Band season was over. At least
> that is the way this report reads. They were
> specifically asked to break the Marching Band
> information out separately.
>
> Almost $600 per student. And the school year isn't
> even over yet.


Would somebody explain just how you do that?

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>FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Danielle ()
Date: March 09, 2016 08:02PM

:-D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> *__* Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So McLean has spent almost $100,000 on hourly
> > instructors for "Marching Band", over $30,000
> of
> > it after Marching Band season was over. At
> least
> > that is the way this report reads. They were
> > specifically asked to break the Marching Band
> > information out separately.
> >
> > Almost $600 per student. And the school year
> isn't
> > even over yet.
>
>
> Would somebody explain just how you do that?


That is a good question.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ????? ()
Date: March 11, 2016 07:43PM

Speak up!

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ()() ()
Date: March 23, 2016 08:13AM

.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: ^___^ ()
Date: March 23, 2016 08:23PM

No, it isn't over yet.

If you look on pages 9 and 10 you will see that the Marching Band appropriated funds can be used to pay additional instructors for Marching Band. Instructors used after the first day of school, since the summer camp cannot be paid for using appropriated funds. You want/need instructors for the rehearsals. Which are primarily after school.

If a program uses up all of their appropriated funds, then the procedure is to turn to the parent groups for donations, NOT call a class that you are charging a course fee for, that you receive appropriated funds for, an activity in addition to being a course, and charge the kids for the additional instructors. That amounts to a double charge. Course. Activity. Pick one. You can't charge for both for the exact same thing.

Students have a right under the laws of Virginia to be charged appropriately for their classes. They can only be charged for consumables. The taxpayers have to pay for the instructors. If the teacher wants additional help with teaching, that is not a consumable. The students cannot be charged for instruction.

Hello, McLean.
Attachments:
SFH_AppropriatedFunds _ Marching Band Allocations (3).pdf

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: 9u7Y6 ()
Date: March 24, 2016 09:24AM


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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Jane L. ()
Date: March 25, 2016 11:04AM

9u7Y6 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/whistleblow
> er-illegal-school-fees-continue-despite-settlement
> -7897


So the teacher was basically telling the kids if their parents didn't make a donation, they were going to throw out their mandatory class project? What a bitch.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Take a Cue From Trump ()
Date: March 25, 2016 11:23AM

FCPS needs to build a wall isolating things. Band class is a class, marching band is an activity. It seems that it fits certain people's interests when there is no line between them.

FCPS was clearly involved in some kind of German exchange program, but once again there was no clear line between official dealings and this side tour that the pervert Rademacher was running.

Then we have Boosterthon and other fundraisers. There is no line between the school and then the PTA/PTO being allowed to bring these fundraisers into the schools, eating up instructional hours and making a lot of money.

All of these are signs of poor management. No wonder FCPS keeps crying for more money. What money doesn't flow down the drain over at Sea Pearl, it flows off to the band and so on. This needs to stop.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: YghEd ()
Date: March 25, 2016 11:33AM

Marching Band is a class. It is curricular. It is in the course catalog. That is why a course fee is charged for it and why it receives appropriated funds.

Trips to Disney and Dollywood are activities. They are not in the course catalog and do not receive appropriated funds.

Big difference.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: 5468ktf ()
Date: March 25, 2016 07:28PM

YghEd Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marching Band is a class. It is curricular. It is
> in the course catalog. That is why a course fee
> is charged for it and why it receives appropriated
> funds.
>
> Trips to Disney and Dollywood are activities. They
> are not in the course catalog and do not receive
> appropriated funds.
>
> Big difference.



And you can't charge for instructors for a course.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: RfYfdw ()
Date: March 28, 2016 08:11AM

Jane L. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 9u7Y6 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/whistleblow
>
> >
> er-illegal-school-fees-continue-despite-settlement
>
> > -7897
>
>
> So the teacher was basically telling the kids if
> their parents didn't make a donation, they were
> going to throw out their mandatory class project?
> What a bitch.


Well this wasn't any worse than all the FCPS parents and teachers who were demanding money from parents for classes in complete violation of the state educational laws, even after they were finally told to cut it out. Assessments, dues, donation payments, voluntary commitment payments, checks made out to the school for illegal payments demanded from families and then the checks going into a Booster bank account, mandatory $800 trips, mandatory fundraising.... They used every trick in the book and then some. Including calling a class an activity and double-charging kids.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: DOE.A deer. ()
Date: March 29, 2016 07:39AM

A complaint was filed with the Department of Education about the McLean illegal Marching Band fee. After several weeks of messing around with it, the head of Financial Services and the FCPS legal people now have a homework assignment.

"Please describe the difference between [a class] and a voluntary additional workshop and get back to us."

This is easy.

That can be summed up like this-

1. A class is something in the course catalog. Check.
2. A class is something that you charge a course fee for. Check.
3. A class is something that receives appropriated funds for assessments and additional instructors, etc. Check.
4. A voluntary additional workshop is something that goes on during the summer, something that isn't in the course catalog, something that you haven't already charged a course fee for, something that doesn't receive appropriated funds for required assessments and additional instructors, etc. Examples-trips to theme parks, out of town trips besides the required assessments, summer Marching camp.

Oh-let's add in the definition of "what is optional". Something is "optional" when the teacher has not told the kids and the parents in writing it is required/mandatory and the kids/parents have not signed an agreement agreeing that something is required/mandatory.

Done.

The after school rehearsals were part of the course. A course that parents paid a course fee for, that was clearly and specifically in the course catalog, that received appropriated funds, that FCPS illegally charged the parents for additional instructors for. The parents and kids signed an agreement saying they understood the kids were supposed to show up at all rehearsals and performances.

McLean parents-you were charged an illegal fee for Marching Band. FCPS was not compliant with the Virginia Administrative Code. They owe you a refund....
Attachments:
DOE_3.28.2016.pdf

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Retired Teacher ()
Date: March 29, 2016 01:52PM

Awwwww. Did they have to stay after school? Are they in detention?

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: tdW9J ()
Date: March 29, 2016 03:52PM

I just sent an screenprint of some of the OP's best ranting to the below:

Leah.Walker@doe.virginia.gov
Cynthia.Cave@doe.virginia.gov
Kristen.Michael@fcps.edu

I suggest you all take the opportunity to tell them who they are dealing with. Give them a good Fairfax Underground welcome to the subject matter.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: The Einuis Society ()
Date: March 29, 2016 04:11PM

When is there going to be an Einuis benefit concert? They could raise money so Laurence could buy a few things at the canteen, and to help Judy with bills now that she's a one income household, or maybe to hire a divorce lawyer.

The concert could feature songs by Michael Jackson and Gary Glitter.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Leave Judy alone! ()
Date: March 29, 2016 07:14PM

The Einuis Society Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When is there going to be an Einuis benefit
> concert? They could raise money so Laurence could
> buy a few things at the canteen, and to help Judy
> with bills now that she's a one income household,
> or maybe to hire a divorce lawyer.
>
> The concert could feature songs by Michael Jackson
> and Gary Glitter.


She had NO idea this was happening under her nose!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: What has Judy said? ()
Date: March 29, 2016 08:12PM

Leave Judy alone! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Einuis Society Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When is there going to be an Einuis benefit
> > concert? They could raise money so Laurence
> could
> > buy a few things at the canteen, and to help
> Judy
> > with bills now that she's a one income
> household,
> > or maybe to hire a divorce lawyer.
> >
> > The concert could feature songs by Michael
> Jackson
> > and Gary Glitter.
>
>
> She had NO idea this was happening under her nose!


How do you know this, has Judy Einuis made a statement? She needs to clear her name. Hard to believe she had no idea her husband was a pervert.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: has made no statement? ()
Date: March 30, 2016 02:04AM

What has Judy said? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> How do you know this, has Judy Einuis made a
> statement? She needs to clear her name. Hard to
> believe she had no idea her husband was a pervert.


There MUST be a statement! I'll accept her innocence, but there MUST be a statement!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: You've got mail ()
Date: March 30, 2016 07:22AM

tdW9J Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just sent an screenprint of some of the OP's
> best ranting to the below:
>
> Leah.Walker@doe.virginia.gov
> Cynthia.Cave@doe.virginia.gov
> Kristen.Michael@fcps.edu
>
> I suggest you all take the opportunity to tell
> them who they are dealing with. Give them a good
> Fairfax Underground welcome to the subject matter.

You sent a screen print from an anonymous forum to these people, which shows them how crazy YOU are. Perfect. Be sure to send them the sections that call OP a cunt and threaten to vandalize their house. Because they insist the school system and the volunteer parents follow the state educational laws. That will certainly add credibility to your actions.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: no statement, no job ()
Date: March 30, 2016 12:57PM

has made no statement? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What has Judy said? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > How do you know this, has Judy Einuis made a
> > statement? She needs to clear her name. Hard to
> > believe she had no idea her husband was a
> pervert.
>
>
> There MUST be a statement! I'll accept her
> innocence, but there MUST be a statement!

Unless Judy Einuis makes a statement, and assists with an investigation SOON, she needs to be removed from FCPS employment. There are just too many risks.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: WRONG THREAD ()
Date: March 30, 2016 03:21PM

no statement, no job Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> has made no statement? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What has Judy said? Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > How do you know this, has Judy Einuis made a
> > > statement? She needs to clear her name. Hard
> to
> > > believe she had no idea her husband was a
> > pervert.
> >
> >
> > There MUST be a statement! I'll accept her
> > innocence, but there MUST be a statement!
>
> Unless Judy Einuis makes a statement, and assists
> with an investigation SOON, she needs to be
> removed from FCPS employment. There are just too
> many risks.

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1817034/page-1.html

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Einuis Snuck In ()
Date: March 30, 2016 04:29PM

This started over an argument about the status of band. It was pointed out that band is at best a funny duck. Einuis is but one example of this. What with budget cuts and the mania of band parents, the very notion of cutting out marching band is certainly on the table.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: SCREEN SNAP THIS ()
Date: March 30, 2016 05:33PM

Barb Brown is a cunt.

That is all.

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Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: From bad to worse-> ()
Date: March 31, 2016 09:25AM

Hello McLean Marching Band-They did the same thing to you LAST year, also. About $15,000 +/- for instructors for Marching Band after school started.

Marching Band is in the COURSE catalog. That makes it a COURSE. There is a separate COURSE consumables fee for Marching Band, because it is a COURSE. It receives appropriated funds because it is a COURSE, and those funds are for additional instructors for the COURSE. They aren't allowed to charge you a camp fee for these instructors in addition to the COURSE fee they charge you because Marching Band is a COURSE.

So, now McLean is up to $27,000 or so in illegal course fees in the last two school years.....
Attachments:
McLean FOIA Marching Band 2014_Redacted.pdf

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Holy Moly ()
Date: March 31, 2016 02:42PM

Some of the people on this report are making $100 an hour.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Yet more FCPS waste! ()
Date: March 31, 2016 02:51PM

Holy Moly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of the people on this report are making $100
> an hour.

Who are these people, and how do they get these jobs? Cronyism? Nah, not in above board, transparent Fairfax. No way no how. I'm sure there are interviews, auditions, and music tests, just like at Juilliard and Eastman.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: you got it ()
Date: March 31, 2016 02:54PM

Yet more FCPS waste! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Holy Moly Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Some of the people on this report are making
> $100
> > an hour.
>
> Who are these people, and how do they get these
> jobs? Cronyism? Nah, not in above board,
> transparent Fairfax. No way no how. I'm sure there
> are interviews, auditions, and music tests, just
> like at Juilliard and Eastman.


Mostly cronyism.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: Holy Moly ()
Date: March 31, 2016 03:06PM

http://www.mcleanband.org/staff.html

Here are the staff and their job descriptions.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: 7uy6T ()
Date: March 31, 2016 03:27PM

Holy Moly Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of the people on this report are making $100
> an hour.


No wonder they have to break the law to pay them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: M. ()
Date: April 02, 2016 08:04AM

-

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: >FCPS High School Music Programs 2015-16<
Posted by: solution: get rid of it ()
Date: April 02, 2016 02:57PM

If they got rid of band, it would get rid of the official/unofficial argument that's been going on here. If they want music at football games, they can play CDs.

Oh yes they can fire all the band teachers while they are at it.

Options: ReplyQuote
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