HomeFairfax General ForumArrest/Ticket SearchWiki newPictures/VideosChatArticlesLinksAbout
Fairfax County General :  Fairfax Underground fairfax underground logo
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: BrianSchoeneman ()
Date: April 23, 2015 06:19PM

Wanted to make sure you all saw this in the Post today.

And if you're in Sully, make sure to come out on Saturday, from 10-4 at Westfield High School for the primary.

-------------------

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/republicans-vye-to-replace-retiring-fairfax-supervisor-in-sully-district/2015/04/22/ccedd046-e783-11e4-9767-6276fc9b0ada_story.html

Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District

by Tony Olivo

Twenty-four years have passed since Republican Michael R. Frey became supervisor of the newly created Sully District in western Fairfax County. Now, Frey is retiring, and the once-rural area, which has become a hub for businesses and immigration, must launch a new political era.

The first step comes Saturday at Westfield High School in Chantilly. Three Republican candidates will compete for the nomination in a firehouse canvass that is expected to draw about 2,000 voters from a population of 130,000 residents.

The candidates — John Guevara, John L. Litzenberger Jr. and Brian Schoeneman — are all more conservative than Frey, who has not endorsed anyone. Whoever wins will face Democratic nominee Kathy Smith — a longtime School Board member who has pushed for more schools funding — in November’s general election.

Although Sully has known only a Republican supervisor, it leans Democratic in state and national races, backing President Obama in both his White House bids and Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.) last year.

But the supervisor’s race has focused mostly on local issues that resonate through much of Fairfax: clogged roads, crowded schools and cultural rifts triggered by the steady arrival of Asian and Latin American immigrants in historically white neighborhoods.

“We are in the city now,” said Denise Benedict, 52, as she stood on her porch in Chantilly one recent day. She complained about cars speeding through quiet streets, and a nearby drug problem that recently led to a heroin ring bust.

Frey’s successor will be one of at least two new members on a county Board of Supervisors where Democrats hold a 7-3 majority; the other open seat is in the heavily Democratic Mount Vernon District, where supervisor Gerald W. Hyland is retiring.

In Sully, the Republican hopefuls have campaigned by scouring lists of consistent Republican voters who they believe are most likely to participate in the canvass, which runs from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.

Each candidate enters the election with some advantages.

Guevara, a Mexican American, received a letter of support from the state Republican Party chairman, John Whitbeck, who says he wants more diversity in the party. Schoeneman, a former electoral board secretary, has raised the most money — $21,700 since January. And Litzenberger, a member of the county Planning Commission, has been a fixture in Sully politics nearly as long as Frey.

The candidates praise Frey, who remains popular, even as they argue that he and the rest of the board allowed property taxes to get too high and roads to become too congested.

They also break with Frey on dealing with residents’ concerns related to new immigrants — such as the mostly Guatemalan day laborers who crowd in front of the Centreville public library in search of work. While Frey — who helped establish a nonprofit labor center for the workers — asserts that the men have a right to stand on the corner, the three candidates all say they’d explore ways to clear them out.

“If it came to me to make it illegal to stand in front of the library, I would support that 100 percent,” Guevara, 41, said to applause at a recent candidate’s forum.

The most pressing issue for Sully voters is traffic.

When Schoeneman met Patricia Crowley, 80, she complained about years of unfulfilled promises to fix the often clogged intersection of Routes 28 and 50 in Herndon. “I don’t think they ought to say they’ll spend the money if they don’t mean it,” said Crowley, as Schoeneman nodded in agreement.

Litzenberger said that as a planning commissioner, he knows how to pressure developers into helping to pay for road improvements. “Not one penny in taxes is used in those proffers,” he said.

Schoeneman said that he would push for more projects to relieve congestion. Guevara faulted the planning commission for past failure, a viewpoint Litzenberger called naive in a region that is still growing.

On county taxes, all three advocate freezing tax rates or rolling them back.

Guevara, an IT manager at the AT&T Consulting Services company, wants to eliminate a business, professional, occupational license tax in the county — known as the BPOL tax — that generates about $150 million per year for Fairfax.

He says he would boost the tax base by luring more large employers into the area, which that is primed to benefit from development plans near Dulles International Airport.

Schoeneman called eliminating the tax impractical without finding a way to replace lost revenue.

He, in turn, has been criticized by the other candidates because he has lived in the Sully District only since January. Guevara also has criticized Schoeneman, 37, for having ties to organized labor — he is legislative director of the International Seafarers Union, and some workers have contributed to his campaign.

“How often do you see Republicans working for unions?” said Guevara, 41. “There’s a big difference here, in whether the party goes moderate, to the left or remains conservative.”

Litzenberger, who at age 64 is a generation older than his opponents, calls them both inexperienced. “In eight years, they would be where I was in 1983,” he said.

On a recent day, Guevara knocked on the door of the Chantilly home of Christina Dingman, a sixth-grade teacher. Although she is a reliable Republican voter, she gave him an earful about nearly flat teacher salaries in the county — a result of the still-anemic local economy and a concern more typical among Democrats.

“I’ve gotten less than $5,000 in raises over the past seven years,” Dingman said. “There are young teachers out here who can’t make it.”

Guevara, caught slightly off guard, talked about the need for growing the county’s economic base. Then he moved on to the next voter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2015 09:47PM by BrianSchoeneman.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: SUPER tl;dr ()
Date: April 23, 2015 06:49PM

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wanted to make sure you all saw this in the Post
> today.
>
> And if you're in Sully, don't make sure to come
> out on Saturday, from 10-4 at Westfield High
> School for the primary.
>
> -------------------
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/republicans-vy
> e-to-replace-retiring-fairfax-supervisor-in-sully-
> district/2015/04/22/ccedd046-e783-11e4-9767-6276fc
> 9b0ada_story.html
>
> Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in
> Fairfax’s Sully District
>
> by Tony Olivo
>
> Twenty-four years have passed since Republican
> Michael R. Frey became supervisor of the newly
> created Sully District in western Fairfax County.
> Now, Frey is retiring, and the once-rural area,
> which has become a hub for businesses and
> immigration, must launch a new political era.
>
> The first step comes Saturday at Westfield High
> School in Chantilly. Three Republican candidates
> will compete for the nomination in a firehouse
> canvass that is expected to draw about 2,000
> voters from a population of 130,000 residents.
>
> The candidates — John Guevara, John L.
> Litzenberger Jr. and Brian Schoeneman — are all
> more conservative than Frey, who has not endorsed
> anyone. Whoever wins will face Democratic nominee
> Kathy Smith — a longtime School Board member who
> has pushed for more schools funding — in
> November’s general election.
>
> Although Sully has known only a Republican
> supervisor, it leans Democratic in state and
> national races, backing President Obama in both
> his White House bids and Sen. Mark Warner (D-Va.)
> last year.
>
> But the supervisor’s race has focused mostly on
> local issues that resonate through much of
> Fairfax: clogged roads, crowded schools and
> cultural rifts triggered by the steady arrival of
> Asian and Latin American immigrants in
> historically white neighborhoods.
>
> “We are in the city now,” said Denise
> Benedict, 52, as she stood on her porch in
> Chantilly one recent day. She complained about
> cars speeding through quiet streets, and a nearby
> drug problem that recently led to a heroin ring
> bust.
>
> Frey’s successor will be one of at least two new
> members on a county Board of Supervisors where
> Democrats hold a 7-3 majority; the other open seat
> is in the heavily Democratic Mount Vernon
> District, where supervisor Gerald W. Hyland is
> retiring.
>
> In Sully, the Republican hopefuls have campaigned
> by scouring lists of consistent Republican voters
> who they believe are most likely to participate in
> the canvass, which runs from 10 a.m. to 4 p.m.
>
> Each candidate enters the election with some
> advantages.
>
> Guevara, a Mexican American, received a letter of
> support from the state Republican Party chairman,
> John Whitbeck, who says he wants more diversity in
> the party. Schoeneman, a former electoral board
> secretary, has raised the most money — $21,700
> since January. And Litzenberger, a member of the
> county Planning Commission, has been a fixture in
> Sully politics nearly as long as Frey.
>
> The candidates praise Frey, who remains popular,
> even as they argue that he and the rest of the
> board allowed property taxes to get too high and
> roads to become too congested.
>
> They also break with Frey on dealing with
> residents’ concerns related to new immigrants
> — such as the mostly Guatemalan day laborers who
> crowd in front of the Centreville public library
> in search of work. While Frey — who helped
> establish a nonprofit labor center for the workers
> — asserts that the men have a right to stand on
> the corner, the three candidates all say they’d
> explore ways to clear them out.
>
> “If it came to me to make it illegal to stand in
> front of the library, I would support that 100
> percent,” Guevara, 41, said to applause at a
> recent candidate’s forum.
>
> The most pressing issue for Sully voters is
> traffic.
>
> When Schoeneman met Patricia Crowley, 80, she
> complained about years of unfulfilled promises to
> fix the often clogged intersection of Routes 28
> and 50 in Herndon. “I don’t think they ought
> to say they’ll spend the money if they don’t
> mean it,” said Crowley, as Schoeneman nodded in
> agreement.
>
> Litzenberger said that as a planning commissioner,
> he knows how to pressure developers into helping
> to pay for road improvements. “Not one penny in
> taxes is used in those proffers,” he said.
>
> Schoeneman said that he would push for more
> projects to relieve congestion. Guevara faulted
> the planning commission for past failure, a
> viewpoint Litzenberger called naive in a region
> that is still growing.
>
> On county taxes, all three advocate freezing tax
> rates or rolling them back.
>
> Guevara, an IT manager at the AT&T Consulting
> Services company, wants to eliminate a business,
> professional, occupational license tax in the
> county — known as the BPOL tax — that
> generates about $150 million per year for
> Fairfax.
>
> He says he would boost the tax base by luring more
> large employers into the area, which that is
> primed to benefit from development plans near
> Dulles International Airport.
>
> Schoeneman called eliminating the tax impractical
> without finding a way to replace lost revenue.
>
> He, in turn, has been criticized by the other
> candidates because he has lived in the Sully
> District only since January. Guevara also has
> criticized Schoeneman, 37, for having ties to
> organized labor — he is legislative director of
> the International Seafarers Union, and some
> workers have contributed to his campaign.
>
> “How often do you see Republicans working for
> unions?” said Guevara, 41. “There’s a big
> difference here, in whether the party goes
> moderate, to the left or remains conservative.”
>
> Litzenberger, who at age 64 is a generation older
> than his opponents, calls them both inexperienced.
> “In eight years, they would be where I was in
> 1983,” he said.
>
> On a recent day, Guevara knocked on the door of
> the Chantilly home of Christina Dingman, a
> sixth-grade teacher. Although she is a reliable
> Republican voter, she gave him an earful about
> nearly flat teacher salaries in the county — a
> result of the still-anemic local economy and a
> concern more typical among Democrats.
>
> “I’ve gotten less than $5,000 in raises over
> the past seven years,” Dingman said. “There
> are young teachers out here who can’t make
> it.”
>
> Guevara, caught slightly off guard, talked about
> the need for growing the county’s economic base.
> Then he moved on to the next voter.


Wow, no one will ever read that.

You, sir, are a dumbass.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: BrianSchoeneman ()
Date: April 23, 2015 07:21PM

Hey - I didn't write it. Blame Tony.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: Kathy Smith = BAD NEWS ()
Date: April 23, 2015 07:50PM

This is the year ALL members of the Board of Supervisors and school board need to go. That includes school board members trying to get on to the Board of Supervisors.

Enough is enough. Pretty soon the County will be requiring multiple bathrooms: straight men, straight women, gay men, gay women, bisexual and transsexual.

Vote Republican, send Kathy Smith off to shill for Boosterthon or something.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: OU812IC ()
Date: April 24, 2015 02:24PM

"Guevara, a Mexican American, received a letter of support from the state Republican Party chairman"

Hehee, a Mexican running for office

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: Porky Smith ()
Date: April 24, 2015 03:02PM

I hate Brian Schoeneman, but I hate Kathy Smith more. I will probably get out and vote just to do my part to keep that bitch from fucking over Western FFX more than she did on the school board. Worst board member EVER. Plus, she looks like a fucking lesbian with that fat-ass, round body and ugly as hell bulldog face.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: Jeanine Martin ()
Date: April 25, 2015 02:28AM

BRIAN S. EATS BABIES!

HE ALSO MARCHES IN NAZI RALLIES AND WILL RAISE OUR TAXES.

DON'T VOTE BRIAN.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: I. M. Puffin Stuff ()
Date: April 25, 2015 07:40AM

Jeanine Martin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BRIAN S. EATS BABIES!
>
> HE ALSO MARCHES IN NAZI RALLIES AND WILL RAISE OUR
> TAXES.
>
> DON'T VOTE BRIAN.


I will vote AGAINST Brian today. Just for the fact that he's stupid enough to post on here if not that he's a union lobbyist and in bed with the big-government status quo assholes that run this place.

Stick it to the man FFU! Vote for anyone but Schoeneman.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: April 25, 2015 07:51AM

I. M. Puffin Stuff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Stick it to the man FFU! Vote for anyone but
> Schoeneman.

Like him or not, Brian probably has the best chance to beat Smith. And if you want Smith, then you want higher taxes to help fund FCPS' luxury Gatehouse and other inefficient school waste.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: I.M Puffin' Stuff ()
Date: April 25, 2015 08:04AM

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I. M. Puffin Stuff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Stick it to the man FFU! Vote for anyone but
> > Schoeneman.
>
> Like him or not, Brian probably has the best
> chance to beat Smith. And if you want Smith, then
> you want higher taxes to help fund FCPS' luxury
> Gatehouse and other inefficient school waste.


Explain how Brian has the best chance to beat Smith. What is your reasoning. I plan on voting for Litzenberger today. Why shouldn't I?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: April 25, 2015 08:43AM

I.M Puffin' Stuff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I plan on voting
> for Litzenberger today. Why shouldn't I?

Using your reasoning in reverse, you shouldn't because he doesn't post on FFXU.

"Stick it to the man FFU! Vote for anyone but Litzenberger."

I'm voting for Schoeneman.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: ffxu poseters for brian! ()
Date: April 25, 2015 09:45AM

Go Brian!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: I.M. Puffin' Stuff ()
Date: April 25, 2015 11:41AM

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I.M Puffin' Stuff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I plan on voting
> > for Litzenberger today. Why shouldn't I?
>
> Using your reasoning in reverse, you shouldn't
> because he doesn't post on FFXU.
>
> "Stick it to the man FFU! Vote for anyone but
> Litzenberger."
>
> I'm voting for Schoeneman.


I asked why Schoeneman has the best chance. Instead of giving me a reasonable answer, which might have persuaded me, you dodged. You hurt Brian today. Hurt him bad. Probably just cost him this primary.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: Dane Bramage ()
Date: April 25, 2015 06:06PM

I.M. Puffin' Stuff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dane Bramage Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I.M Puffin' Stuff Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I plan on voting
> > > for Litzenberger today. Why shouldn't I?
> >
> > Using your reasoning in reverse, you shouldn't
> > because he doesn't post on FFXU.
> >
> > "Stick it to the man FFU! Vote for anyone but
> > Litzenberger."
> >
> > I'm voting for Schoeneman.
>
>
> I asked why Schoeneman has the best chance.
> Instead of giving me a reasonable answer, which
> might have persuaded me, you dodged. You hurt
> Brian today. Hurt him bad. Probably just cost
> him this primary.

You hurt Litzenberger today. Hurt him bad, and you just cost him this primary.

Run Guevara, Run.

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: Guevara wins ()
Date: April 25, 2015 08:01PM

Guevara wins, Brian second, Litzenberger third.

That's what happens when 1,362 friends and family, plus a few Dems trying to swing the primary but failed, come out to vote.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: I.M. Puffin' Stuff ()
Date: April 25, 2015 08:09PM

Dane Bramage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I.M. Puffin' Stuff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dane Bramage Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I.M Puffin' Stuff Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I plan on voting
> > > > for Litzenberger today. Why shouldn't I?
> > >
> > > Using your reasoning in reverse, you
> shouldn't
> > > because he doesn't post on FFXU.
> > >
> > > "Stick it to the man FFU! Vote for anyone but
> > > Litzenberger."
> > >
> > > I'm voting for Schoeneman.
> >
> >
> > I asked why Schoeneman has the best chance.
> > Instead of giving me a reasonable answer, which
> > might have persuaded me, you dodged. You hurt
> > Brian today. Hurt him bad. Probably just cost
> > him this primary.
>
> You hurt Litzenberger today. Hurt him bad, and you
> just cost him this primary.
>
> Run Guevara, Run.

I see what you did there. You wrote what I wrote, but changed one word. Very witty.

Litzenberger had no presence there at all. Guevara's gauntlet was like trying to get through a zombie apocalypse. I was offered his literature by at least 10 different "relatives" before I got half way to the front door. At least two told me to vote for "my dad". Sounds like he's right on taxes as they kept shouting at me that, "He's the only one who will not vote to raise our taxes."

Schoeneman is a giant of a man. He stood there in front of the door like Colossus of Rhodes, throwing Herrity in front to shake hands. Too smug. Too fat. Forehead too big.

As I picked up the pencil to denote my choice, I saw Schoeneman's name there on the bottom and thought, "If only that schmuck on FFU had given me one reason to vote for him, I'd probably do it." Then I filled in the circle for Geuvara. I figured if Litzenberger didn't care enough to even show up, why should I vote for him.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: BrianSchoeneman ()
Date: April 25, 2015 08:18PM

I.M. Puffin' Stuff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dane Bramage Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I.M. Puffin' Stuff Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Dane Bramage Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > I.M Puffin' Stuff Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > I plan on voting
> > > > > for Litzenberger today. Why shouldn't I?
> > > >
> > > > Using your reasoning in reverse, you
> > shouldn't
> > > > because he doesn't post on FFXU.
> > > >
> > > > "Stick it to the man FFU! Vote for anyone
> but
> > > > Litzenberger."
> > > >
> > > > I'm voting for Schoeneman.
> > >
> > >
> > > I asked why Schoeneman has the best chance.
> > > Instead of giving me a reasonable answer,
> which
> > > might have persuaded me, you dodged. You
> hurt
> > > Brian today. Hurt him bad. Probably just
> cost
> > > him this primary.
> >
> > You hurt Litzenberger today. Hurt him bad, and
> you
> > just cost him this primary.
> >
> > Run Guevara, Run.
>
> I see what you did there. You wrote what I wrote,
> but changed one word. Very witty.
>
> Litzenberger had no presence there at all.
> Guevara's gauntlet was like trying to get through
> a zombie apocalypse. I was offered his literature
> by at least 10 different "relatives" before I got
> half way to the front door. At least two told me
> to vote for "my dad". Sounds like he's right on
> taxes as they kept shouting at me that, "He's the
> only one who will not vote to raise our taxes."
>
> Schoeneman is a giant of a man. He stood there in
> front of the door like Colossus of Rhodes,
> throwing Herrity in front to shake hands. Too
> smug. Too fat. Forehead too big.
>
> As I picked up the pencil to denote my choice, I
> saw Schoeneman's name there on the bottom and
> thought, "If only that schmuck on FFU had given me
> one reason to vote for him, I'd probably do it."
> Then I filled in the circle for Geuvara. I
> figured if Litzenberger didn't care enough to even
> show up, why should I vote for him.

This made me laugh. Good show. :)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: Did you see ()
Date: April 25, 2015 09:23PM

all the illegal Mexicans for Guevara at the primary at Westfield High School today? It was like driving in front of the Centreville library. Maybe if Guevara actually knocks on my door he can mow my lawn too? At the very least he can pull some weeds.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: ICYMI - Republicans vie to replace retiring supervisor in Fairfax’s Sully District
Posted by: Mexico Number Uno ()
Date: August 14, 2015 09:30PM

The funniest thing about this is that Mr Open Door Immigration Brian Schoenman lost to ... A MEXICAN...

Go read his fucking stupid blog Bearing Drift where he and his butt buddy the former Chairman of the GOP blast people for being nativists.. DRIVE OUT The Nativists from the phony conservative GOP...

So Schoenman loses to a Mexican... that is great... love it... How's it feel, asshole?

Options: ReplyQuote


Your Name: 
Your Email (Optional): 
Subject: 
Attach a file
  • No file can be larger than 75 MB
  • All files together cannot be larger than 300 MB
  • 30 more file(s) can be attached to this message
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **     **  **    **  **     **        **  ******** 
  **   **    **  **    **   **         **     **    
   ** **      ****      ** **          **     **    
    ***        **        ***           **     **    
   ** **       **       ** **    **    **     **    
  **   **      **      **   **   **    **     **    
 **     **     **     **     **   ******      **    
This forum powered by Phorum.