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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Real Jobs ()
Date: May 29, 2015 04:59PM

parent3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Combine that with teacher retirement plans and
> > it's a very cushy job with extremely high pay.
>
>
> It's statements like this that breed ignorance.
> I'd love to see what your "cushy" definition
> is….you're clueless.
> How many times have you gone home from work crying
> because of what you see at school, and what your
> students bring to the classroom every day? How
> many nights have you laid awake wondering if your
> students are safe? Try thanking a teacher instead
> of criticizing what you don't know.

Are you implying that in the real work world it's Disneyland? How about laying off a guy supporting 6 kids? I have plenty more example for you.

Seriously you can't be implying that teaching is the only jobs where emotions play a role? Now that IS ignorance.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: gym teacher ()
Date: May 30, 2015 06:43AM

As a PE teacher I enjoy rolling out of the parking lot right after the buses are gone every day. The majority of the teachers work after school, sometimes for hours. Teaching PE in elementary school is a easy job. I have no complaints. In the summer I wait tables at the beach, working 3 or four days a week and living it up the rest of the time. Good times ahead!

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: youknowho ()
Date: May 30, 2015 07:50AM

Except the truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zilch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > > Hundreds of professionals from other
> industries
> > > try to teach in FCPS every year. Most leave
> > after year one.
>
> Yours is not a truthful statement.


Oh yes it is.

Let me be clear. There are professionals who leave their job and commit to a proper teacher eduation program - 32 credits, student teaching, etc. They do great.

Then there is the "fast track" "career switcher" specials. They don' last. So much so that schools have stopped hiring them and colleges have ended those programs.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: county taxpayer3381 ()
Date: May 31, 2015 12:03PM

Well, the fact that neighboring counties have higher SOL scores tell the story. Fairfax county is changing and the change is not good for white people.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: )(&*& ()
Date: May 31, 2015 10:04PM

Fairfax county taxpayers are fed up

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: tgb ()
Date: June 01, 2015 09:16PM

parentx3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Realistor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Get a real job if you don't like your endless
> > vacation time, holidays, and snow days.
>
>
> Get a life if you think this is what teachers
> do….Teachers work endlessly on their vacations,
> holidays, and snow days not to mention spending
> their own money to supply their classrooms and
> students with the necessary supplies.

I'm a teacher. My wife is a teacher. We both teach in elementary schools. During the school year we are busy. Probably busier than most people realize. I don't complain about it. To be honest though, neither of us will do anything for school between when we sign out on June 22nd and go back on August 31st. Neither of us spend our own money on supplies. Anything we need for our classrooms gets provided by the school. Frankly, I never understood why teachers spend their own money on their classroom. Why should the school buy materials if the employees are going to do it for them?

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: nor ()
Date: June 01, 2015 10:25PM

I am not a teacher. I am busy all year round. probably busier than most people realize. I don't complain about it. I volunteer at school when I'm not at work. I give money to the school to support my child's interests. I give money at work to support other school fundraisers. I buy things for other people's children during the holidays. I don't get 13 snow days off a year. I don't automatically get a week off for spring break or Christmas break. I work from June 22nd through August 31st. I will not dress down because I am not receiving a full raise. I haven't received a full raise in years. I pay taxes. I subsidize children of parents who do not pay taxes.
Those children need more attention from a classroom teacher. I feed my child breakfast. I help my child with homework. I help my child get to school on time. No one will care if I quit my job and go work somewhere else. I buy things that I need to work when my work won't cover it. Store and restaurant workers report to work when it snows and they make less than a teacher. Maybe they have a masters. Maybe they lost their corporate job. I do not get to travel for training. Training is required for certifications. Funding for training has been cut. The school board is not getting voted back into office. period. Supervisors who don't see the light will not be voted into office. period. Candidates who support workforce housing for teachers and police will not be popular because teachers and police receive a lion's share of taxpayer funds. Every regular taxpaying worker knows the real finances and they are fed up.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: stressed teacher ()
Date: July 22, 2015 01:57AM

Honestly, I feel as though Fairfax County Public Schools is putting me in a difficult position -- my job is on the line so what do I need to do to make my students perform well under terrible working conditions.

I am in my fifth year of teaching and this year is just absolutely terrible. My first few years went great, I loved my collegues, my students, and especially my administrators. In my first year, I would walk in in the morning and walk out after school and it felt like only a few minutes of time had gone by.

This year I have almost gone on stress leave due to the administrators being absolutely ignorant, corrupt, and just lacking in humanity. They are cruel and heartless. Out of 60 teachers at our school, 35 teachers were looking to leave next year.

These administrators have been administrators for so long that they forget what it is to teach. They pile on extra work. So much so that I have fallen behind in my marking and preparing. I am stagnating as a result of all this extra work that they pile on us which is SUPPOSED to make us BETTER TEACHERS.

You want me to be a better teacher? STOP PILING ON WORK! I ALREADY WORK AT LEAST 3 EXTRA HOURS PER DAY JUST PLANNING AND PREPARING SO THAT MY STUDENTS ACTUALLY LEARN AND ENJOY MY CLASS!

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Happy Teacher ()
Date: July 22, 2015 02:59AM

I quit FCPS two years ago and went to work for Stafford county. It was the best move I ever made.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: FCPS Priorities ()
Date: July 22, 2015 08:28AM

You don't advance in politics due to teachers.

You advance as being a leader in transgender rights. You advance by hiring noted consultants. You advance through networking at conferences. You advance by getting you name in the news.

FCPS, in the form of the school board and its administrators, do this very well. The teachers and students just get in the way. Just look at how school board members are now running for higher office. Ryan McElveen will almost certainly try for House of Delegates at some point.

In the meantime, FCPS will waste more and more money and the quality of education will keep going down.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: vote no ()
Date: July 22, 2015 09:00AM

FCPS Priorities Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't advance in politics due to teachers.
>
> You advance as being a leader in transgender
> rights. You advance by hiring noted consultants.
> You advance through networking at conferences. You
> advance by getting you name in the news.
>
> FCPS, in the form of the school board and its
> administrators, do this very well. The teachers
> and students just get in the way. Just look at how
> school board members are now running for higher
> office. Ryan McElveen will almost certainly try
> for House of Delegates at some point.
>
> In the meantime, FCPS will waste more and more
> money and the quality of education will keep going
> down.

Two of the FCPS school board members are running for Board of Supervisors: Dan Storck and Kathy Smith.
If you live in Sully or Mount Vernon, please vote against them in November. They will definitely vote to raise taxes. They have been terrible stewards of our tax money in running the schools.

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 22, 2015 09:24AM

> You most likely subscribe to the liberal tenets of
> your President. Therefore, your demand for more
> money will be heard AFTER your elected democrats
> have spent it on ridiculous programs. Don't forget
> about all those poor folks that don't wan't to
> work, too. Your request will be prioritized far
> down the list of line items.

So let's cut through some of the nonsense and useless political foo-foo, because for starters, it's not true (there are Republican teachers), and second, we shouldn't forget that one of our past Republican Presidents brought us the wonderful "Standards of Learning" concept that is a prime example of BIG GOVERNMENT intervening on territory best handled at the local level. (Talk to ANY teacher and ask them what they think of SOL.....) So there's some heavy hypocrisy at work here, but we'll leave it at that.

People who live outside the DC Metro area don't understand that this area has one of the highest costs of living in the country. If you think $54K will get you into a standard single family home on a 1/4 acre plot of land, think again. After taxes and expenses to get to and from work and put food into your mouth, your take-home might get you into a small apartment here. $54K is an okay salary for someone right out of college who's still living at home with mom and dad. Maybe that's a great salary in Brown's Fork, KY, but not in this area. It not much more than double what you'd get if you were paid minimum wage.

As for the comment from REALISTIC, if you think being a teacher is nothing more than two months of vacation, spring break, lesson plans and grading papers, then I think you're the one being unrealistic. That is an utterly stupid comment.

You get what you pay for. If you want to scrimp on education for your kids, then give them an economy education and see what you get back. Personally, I think $54K for a teacher is an embarrassment for one of the richest counties in the country (as are the roads in Fairfax County).

To anyone on this Forum (including the "in your face" Republican contingent), I pose the following question: Do YOU feel well off? Are YOU ready for retirement? I think our teachers have a legitimate beef and deserve better salaries. Our investment in our kids is our investment in the future.

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: angry teacher ()
Date: July 22, 2015 09:36AM

I had to take certification classes this summer. My time off was only 6 weeks!

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: question for teacher ()
Date: July 22, 2015 10:28AM

Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > You most likely subscribe to the liberal tenets
> of
> > your President. Therefore, your demand for more
> > money will be heard AFTER your elected
> democrats
> > have spent it on ridiculous programs. Don't
> forget
> > about all those poor folks that don't wan't to
> > work, too. Your request will be prioritized far
> > down the list of line items.
>
> So let's cut through some of the nonsense and
> useless political foo-foo, because for starters,
> it's not true (there are Republican teachers), and
> second, we shouldn't forget that one of our past
> Republican Presidents brought us the wonderful
> "Standards of Learning" concept that is a prime
> example of BIG GOVERNMENT intervening on territory
> best handled at the local level. (Talk to ANY
> teacher and ask them what they think of SOL.....)
> So there's some heavy hypocrisy at work here, but
> we'll leave it at that.
>
> People who live outside the DC Metro area don't
> understand that this area has one of the highest
> costs of living in the country. If you think $54K
> will get you into a standard single family home on
> a 1/4 acre plot of land, think again. After taxes
> and expenses to get to and from work and put food
> into your mouth, your take-home might get you into
> a small apartment here. $54K is an okay salary
> for someone right out of college who's still
> living at home with mom and dad. Maybe that's a
> great salary in Brown's Fork, KY, but not in this
> area. It not much more than double what you'd get
> if you were paid minimum wage.
>
> As for the comment from REALISTIC, if you think
> being a teacher is nothing more than two months of
> vacation, spring break, lesson plans and grading
> papers, then I think you're the one being
> unrealistic. That is an utterly stupid comment.
>
> You get what you pay for. If you want to scrimp
> on education for your kids, then give them an
> economy education and see what you get back.
> Personally, I think $54K for a teacher is an
> embarrassment for one of the richest counties in
> the country (as are the roads in Fairfax County).
>
> To anyone on this Forum (including the "in your
> face" Republican contingent), I pose the following
> question: Do YOU feel well off? Are YOU ready
> for retirement? I think our teachers have a
> legitimate beef and deserve better salaries. Our
> investment in our kids is our investment in the
> future.

I have a question: do you think FCPS uses its resources wisely?

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Retired Teacher ()
Date: July 22, 2015 11:14AM

Gruntled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> English Teacher? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > educ8tor Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The BOS is playing a dangerous game with
> > teacher
> > > salaries. The county needs us a hell of a lot
> > more
> > > then we need them.
> > >
> > > Spend more on education now or spend much
> more
> > on
> > > prisons later.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.wjla.com/articles/2015/04/fairfax-count
>
> >
> > >
> >
> y-teachers-protest-budget-cuts-fight-for-promised-
>
> >
> > > raises-113029.html
> >
> >
> > The correct word to use is "than" not "then".
> > This may come in useful when instructing your
> > students.
>
> Years ago, a reporter asked a striking teacher
> what subject they taught. The teacher answered "I
> teaches English."


Many years ago at a "Back To School Night" the principal was introducing the staff to the parents at the meeting before breaking into individual classes. God as My Witness, the reading teacher stood up and said, "I BE the reading teacher."

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 22, 2015 12:02PM

question for teacher Wrote:

> I have a question: do you think FCPS uses its
> resources wisely?

That question can be answered many different ways - sorta like asking someone, "Do you feel America is SAFE?".

I'm going to guess in advance that your answer is "no", and you'll either cite a single budget item you've cherry picked that goes against your personal political values, OR, you'll make some sort of generalized "big government" statement based on zero knowledge of the County budget.

Either way, that's not the issue. But if you DO feel that's the issue, then put your money where your mouth is and run for BOS, and if the majority of voters in your district agree with you, then you'll get elected! Then you can do your best on the Board to fight for budget justice and realize your dreams - provided the other members of the Board agree with you, which would depend on who the voters in each District elect to the Board. This is known as the Democratic Process, which seems to often get lost in the discussion. Yeah, we know how you'd like to do it. There's only one problem. You're not the only one who lives here.

So about that issue. The issue is that our County pays our teachers only slightly double of what your son makes building pizzas at Papa John's. I think that's wrong. I assume you don't think that's wrong?

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: to Hondo ()
Date: July 22, 2015 12:07PM

Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> question for teacher Wrote:
>
> > I have a question: do you think FCPS uses its
> > resources wisely?
>
> That question can be answered many different ways
> - sorta like asking someone, "Do you feel America
> is SAFE?".
>
> I'm going to guess in advance that your answer is
> "no", and you'll either cite a single budget item
> you've cherry picked that goes against your
> personal political values, OR, you'll make some
> sort of generalized "big government" statement
> based on zero knowledge of the County budget.
>
> Either way, that's not the issue. But if you DO
> feel that's the issue, then put your money where
> your mouth is and run for BOS, and if the majority
> of voters in your district agree with you, then
> you'll get elected! Then you can do your best on
> the Board to fight for budget justice and realize
> your dreams - provided the other members of the
> Board agree with you, which would depend on who
> the voters in each District elect to the Board.
> This is known as the Democratic Process, which
> seems to often get lost in the discussion. Yeah,
> we know how you'd like to do it. There's only one
> problem. You're not the only one who lives here.
>
> So about that issue. The issue is that our County
> pays our teachers only slightly double of what
> your son makes building pizzas at Papa John's. I
> think that's wrong. I assume you don't think
> that's wrong?

So, you think we should raise teachers' pay and not hold the School Board responsible for the waste in other areas. Great. You can write the check. Do you really think the pot is unlimited?

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: you asked, I will answer ()
Date: July 22, 2015 12:24PM

question for teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hondo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > You most likely subscribe to the liberal
> tenets
> > of
> > > your President. Therefore, your demand for
> more
> > > money will be heard AFTER your elected
> > democrats
> > > have spent it on ridiculous programs. Don't
> > forget
> > > about all those poor folks that don't wan't
> to
> > > work, too. Your request will be prioritized
> far
> > > down the list of line items.
> >
> > So let's cut through some of the nonsense and
> > useless political foo-foo, because for
> starters,
> > it's not true (there are Republican teachers),
> and
> > second, we shouldn't forget that one of our
> past
> > Republican Presidents brought us the wonderful
> > "Standards of Learning" concept that is a prime
> > example of BIG GOVERNMENT intervening on
> territory
> > best handled at the local level. (Talk to ANY
> > teacher and ask them what they think of
> SOL.....)
> > So there's some heavy hypocrisy at work here,
> but
> > we'll leave it at that.
> >
> > People who live outside the DC Metro area don't
> > understand that this area has one of the
> highest
> > costs of living in the country. If you think
> $54K
> > will get you into a standard single family home
> on
> > a 1/4 acre plot of land, think again. After
> taxes
> > and expenses to get to and from work and put
> food
> > into your mouth, your take-home might get you
> into
> > a small apartment here. $54K is an okay salary
> > for someone right out of college who's still
> > living at home with mom and dad. Maybe that's
> a
> > great salary in Brown's Fork, KY, but not in
> this
> > area. It not much more than double what you'd
> get
> > if you were paid minimum wage.
> >
> > As for the comment from REALISTIC, if you think
> > being a teacher is nothing more than two months
> of
> > vacation, spring break, lesson plans and
> grading
> > papers, then I think you're the one being
> > unrealistic. That is an utterly stupid
> comment.
> >
> > You get what you pay for. If you want to
> scrimp
> > on education for your kids, then give them an
> > economy education and see what you get back.
> > Personally, I think $54K for a teacher is an
> > embarrassment for one of the richest counties
> in
> > the country (as are the roads in Fairfax
> County).
> >
> > To anyone on this Forum (including the "in your
> > face" Republican contingent), I pose the
> following
> > question: Do YOU feel well off? Are YOU ready
> > for retirement? I think our teachers have a
> > legitimate beef and deserve better salaries.
> Our
> > investment in our kids is our investment in the
> > future.
>
> I have a question: do you think FCPS uses its
> resources wisely?


NO. These consultants, the top-heavy Gatehouse bureaucracy, the travel, the meals, etc. are all indicators of unwise use of resources. Until and unless that stops, no more money for the schools.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: TBT ()
Date: July 22, 2015 12:34PM

Haters are going to hate. Those who think teachers are lazy with "off" time will never change their minds, so don't try to argue. They are incapable of comprehending that teachers are not paid for 12 months - just 194 days in 10 months. Would like more positive publicity about the teachers at schools in FCPS who pack food that they purchase into their impoverished students' backpacks on Fridays so they will eat over the weekend.

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: DanKnows ()
Date: July 22, 2015 12:38PM

But, of course the School Board would justify those expenditures as only a minor % of the budget.

However, all those "minor" expenditures eventually equate to significant amounts.

Ultimately, those perks that the Gatehouse Crew enjoys begins to erode the confidence of the teaching staff and general community as a whole.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Terriblejob ()
Date: July 22, 2015 01:31PM

It's a terrible job and not enough respect goes with it. It's hard to do well and the pay isn't enough. Too many needs walk through the doors each day and too many programs, projects, and mandates come from the top down. The days of the teacher in a classroom are numbered. We're headed to a different design all together, you watch. It's going to get worse before it gets better. We as a community must hold FCPS accountable for the basics for our children and that's all. It's a fork in the road we're facing and we can't afford to take the wrong path!

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 22, 2015 01:37PM

to Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So, you think we should raise teachers' pay and
> not hold the School Board responsible for the
> waste in other areas. Great. You can write the
> check. Do you really think the pot is unlimited?

I think we should raise teacher's pay. It's too low.

Now, if you want to tackle whatever waste and abuse you think is occurring in other areas, then more power to you. As I said - put your money where your mouth is. If you know of waste or abuse, then bloody well show up to the School Board meeting when the budget is reviewed and make it known. The School Board gets a budget each year. If teachers salaries are higher, then there will need to be cuts in other areas (the waste areas you seem to suggest you know about) - OR - we as taxpayers must be willing to pay more.

Remember this. It works both ways. You can "tax until it's too much", and you can also "cut until it's too much". The problem with the folks fighting "BIG GOVERNMENT" is they also have no clue as to what the "lower limit" is - i.e. that level when you're cutting into essential services needed by the citizenry.

So how about sharing some of the "waste in other areas" you're talking about. I'm sure all the teachers who are reading this (and I am not a teacher) would be interested in knowing your insider scoop on school waste. So what have you got?

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: ha ha ha ha FCPS is a scam ()
Date: July 22, 2015 01:42PM

Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> to Hondo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So, you think we should raise teachers' pay and
> > not hold the School Board responsible for the
> > waste in other areas. Great. You can write
> the
> > check. Do you really think the pot is
> unlimited?
>
> I think we should raise teacher's pay. It's too
> low.
>
> Now, if you want to tackle whatever waste and
> abuse you think is occurring in other areas, then
> more power to you. As I said - put your money
> where your mouth is. If you know of waste or
> abuse, then bloody well show up to the School
> Board meeting when the budget is reviewed and make
> it known. The School Board gets a budget each
> year. If teachers salaries are higher, then there
> will need to be cuts in other areas (the waste
> areas you seem to suggest you know about) - OR -
> we as taxpayers must be willing to pay more.
>
> Remember this. It works both ways. You can "tax
> until it's too much", and you can also "cut until
> it's too much". The problem with the folks
> fighting "BIG GOVERNMENT" is they also have no
> clue as to what the "lower limit" is - i.e. that
> level when you're cutting into essential services
> needed by the citizenry.
>
> So how about sharing some of the "waste in other
> areas" you're talking about. I'm sure all the
> teachers who are reading this (and I am not a
> teacher) would be interested in knowing your
> insider scoop on school waste. So what have you
> got?


If you go to the school board about waste you get ignored. You can try your local member first. You can try the at large members. McElveen says he doesn't act until the local member acts. Moon and Velkoff don't answer at all.

Try going to FCPS. Angela Atwater will tell you the matter is closed. The contracts people say every contract in FCPS is 100% fine. The Office of Communications doesn't communicate. Karen Garza will just ignore you.

And then they cry for a HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS. This means DOUBLE IF NOT TRIPLE TAXES. And for what? An English teacher, Eric Jensen, paid $9,000 a day to consult on poverty? A trip to Denmark for Jay Pearson? A trip to Korea for Fabio Zuluaga? A trip to New Orleans for the school board? A leadership conference in Orlando, put on by Jostens, the people who sell photos and yearbooks (think about that) in the schools?

FCPS is wasteful, fraudulent and out of touch with County residents.

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 22, 2015 01:50PM

you asked, I will answer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NO. These consultants, the top-heavy Gatehouse
> bureaucracy, the travel, the meals, etc. are all
> indicators of unwise use of resources. Until and
> unless that stops, no more money for the schools.


Oh, now that's a good answer, isn't it. [Waving hands over head] "It's all that stuff they do that spends the money!" Consultants, "Gatehouse" bureaucracy, travel, meals? What on >earth< are you talking about. What kind of Glenn Beck answer is that.

Specifically what travel money was spent that you felt was wasteful. What specific meals are you talking about? And if you know about budget abuses, why aren't you making them known to the School Board?

So let's assume for a moment you actually can identify these wasteful trips and meals, to say nothing of the other broadly generalized areas you identified. Let's say this "waste" was eliminated. Would you then agree that our teacher's salaries need to be raised. What dollar value do you think all the so called "waste" (even if it exists) adds up to? I don't think you have any clue what you're talking about.

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 22, 2015 02:00PM

ha ha ha ha FCPS is a scam Wrote:
> FCPS is wasteful, fraudulent and out of touch with
> County residents.

If you feel they School Board doesn't listen, then put your name forward and run - make your issues known in a public forum. If there is waste and abuse, it should be addressed. If teachers salaries are too low, that also needs to be addressed. The examples you're citing don't amount to a drop in the bucket when compared to the funds required to pay teachers fairly. If you took all the instances you just cited and attached a dollar value to it, then spread that out among all teachers as an annual raise, what do you figure it would add up to? About $10 more per year?

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Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Game On, Hondo! ()
Date: July 22, 2015 02:05PM

Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ha ha ha ha FCPS is a scam Wrote:
> > FCPS is wasteful, fraudulent and out of touch
> with
> > County residents.
>
> If you feel they School Board doesn't listen, then
> put your name forward and run - make your issues
> known in a public forum. If there is waste and
> abuse, it should be addressed. If teachers
> salaries are too low, that also needs to be
> addressed. The examples you're citing don't
> amount to a drop in the bucket when compared to
> the funds required to pay teachers fairly. If you
> took all the instances you just cited and attached
> a dollar value to it, then spread that out among
> all teachers as an annual raise, what do you
> figure it would add up to? About $10 more per
> year?

FCPS is paying Eric Jensen of Jensen Learning $9,000 a day to consult on poverty, neuroscience, and music. He has a sole source contract due to his credentials and experience.

His credentials consist of a degree in English and then degrees in "organizational development" from the Fielding Institute, an online school in California.

His experience consists of motivational speaking and minimal teaching.

The school board, FCPS contracting department, and Garza refuse to address the concerns that he is unqualified in these fields and his background does not justify a sole source contract.

But FCPS would for whatever reason prefer to keep him than give the teachers raises. When FCPS shows it is willing to look at concerns from residents, and do something when there is a problem, it would be possible to discuss more money for them. But for now they have made this mess where Jensen (and there are others like him) get paid and the teachers don't.

You are welcome to FOIA Jensen's contract, come to your own conclusion and ask FCPS about it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: let's cut these ()
Date: July 22, 2015 04:28PM

Cut:
IB program in high schools. We spend as much for the eight IB schools as we do for all the rest AP. Also, educates less than half the number of kids.

Savings: at least a couple of million. FCPS is expanding it to middle schools, so the future savings would be greater.

Instructional coaches: savings-several million Teachers who tell others how to teach.

AAP centers: Savings--more than 10 million--probably closer to 15

This is just a start.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: cut this too ()
Date: July 22, 2015 04:49PM

FLES--several million savings

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: here it is ()
Date: July 22, 2015 09:59PM

Game On, Hondo! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hondo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ha ha ha ha FCPS is a scam Wrote:
> > > FCPS is wasteful, fraudulent and out of touch
> > with
> > > County residents.
> >
> > If you feel they School Board doesn't listen,
> then
> > put your name forward and run - make your
> issues
> > known in a public forum. If there is waste and
> > abuse, it should be addressed. If teachers
> > salaries are too low, that also needs to be
> > addressed. The examples you're citing don't
> > amount to a drop in the bucket when compared to
> > the funds required to pay teachers fairly. If
> you
> > took all the instances you just cited and
> attached
> > a dollar value to it, then spread that out
> among
> > all teachers as an annual raise, what do you
> > figure it would add up to? About $10 more per
> > year?
>
> FCPS is paying Eric Jensen of Jensen Learning
> $9,000 a day to consult on poverty, neuroscience,
> and music. He has a sole source contract due to
> his credentials and experience.
>
> His credentials consist of a degree in English and
> then degrees in "organizational development" from
> the Fielding Institute, an online school in
> California.
>
> His experience consists of motivational speaking
> and minimal teaching.
>
> The school board, FCPS contracting department, and
> Garza refuse to address the concerns that he is
> unqualified in these fields and his background
> does not justify a sole source contract.
>
> But FCPS would for whatever reason prefer to keep
> him than give the teachers raises. When FCPS
> shows it is willing to look at concerns from
> residents, and do something when there is a
> problem, it would be possible to discuss more
> money for them. But for now they have made this
> mess where Jensen (and there are others like him)
> get paid and the teachers don't.
>
> You are welcome to FOIA Jensen's contract, come to
> your own conclusion and ask FCPS about it.


http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/cregister/ContractDetails.aspx?contractNumber=4400002368

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: upping the ante ()
Date: July 22, 2015 11:04PM

here it is Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Game On, Hondo! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hondo Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > ha ha ha ha FCPS is a scam Wrote:
> > > > FCPS is wasteful, fraudulent and out of
> touch
> > > with
> > > > County residents.
> > >
> > > If you feel they School Board doesn't listen,
> > then
> > > put your name forward and run - make your
> > issues
> > > known in a public forum. If there is waste
> and
> > > abuse, it should be addressed. If teachers
> > > salaries are too low, that also needs to be
> > > addressed. The examples you're citing don't
> > > amount to a drop in the bucket when compared
> to
> > > the funds required to pay teachers fairly.
> If
> > you
> > > took all the instances you just cited and
> > attached
> > > a dollar value to it, then spread that out
> > among
> > > all teachers as an annual raise, what do you
> > > figure it would add up to? About $10 more
> per
> > > year?
> >
> > FCPS is paying Eric Jensen of Jensen Learning
> > $9,000 a day to consult on poverty,
> neuroscience,
> > and music. He has a sole source contract due to
> > his credentials and experience.
> >
> > His credentials consist of a degree in English
> and
> > then degrees in "organizational development"
> from
> > the Fielding Institute, an online school in
> > California.
> >
> > His experience consists of motivational
> speaking
> > and minimal teaching.
> >
> > The school board, FCPS contracting department,
> and
> > Garza refuse to address the concerns that he is
> > unqualified in these fields and his background
> > does not justify a sole source contract.
> >
> > But FCPS would for whatever reason prefer to
> keep
> > him than give the teachers raises. When FCPS
> > shows it is willing to look at concerns from
> > residents, and do something when there is a
> > problem, it would be possible to discuss more
> > money for them. But for now they have made this
> > mess where Jensen (and there are others like
> him)
> > get paid and the teachers don't.
> >
> > You are welcome to FOIA Jensen's contract, come
> to
> > your own conclusion and ask FCPS about it.
>
>
> http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/cregister/ContractDet
> ails.aspx?contractNumber=4400002368


I looked up the email of the requestor, Laila Sultan, and asked her to justify the sole source award.

Let's see if there's any response.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Inquisitive One ()
Date: July 23, 2015 12:29AM

DanKnows Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But, of course the School Board would justify
> those expenditures as only a minor % of the
> budget.
>
> However, all those "minor" expenditures eventually
> equate to significant amounts.
>
> Ultimately, those perks that the Gatehouse Crew
> enjoys begins to erode the confidence of the
> teaching staff and general community as a whole.


The Board's political agenda, personal projects and playing games with inflated budget submissions over a very long period of time has eroded the confidence that the people has with the Board. Since the teacher's union has been the source of a lot of the School Board's excesses there is not much sympathy for the teachers when there is not enough left over for raises.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Inquisitive One ()
Date: July 23, 2015 01:22AM

Here is some information worth considering. This is preliminary information for 2017 so it is not worth investing a huge amount of time analyzing the info. However, it would appear that the costs attributed to lower income and students having ESOL needs is consuming an inordinate amount of the funds. Another interesting bit of information is the fact that many other services that are provided by the county is suffering much more than the FCPS because of the proportional amount of funds being consumed by the schools.

http://files.ctctcdn.com/71c12914101/b4ba4178-ee22-46c8-98c7-0dfaa44a255e.pdf

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Havabite ()
Date: July 23, 2015 07:34AM

TBT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Haters are going to hate. Those who think teachers
> are lazy with "off" time will never change their
> minds, so don't try to argue. They are incapable
> of comprehending that teachers are not paid for 12
> months - just 194 days in 10 months. Would like
> more positive publicity about the teachers at
> schools in FCPS who pack food that they purchase
> into their impoverished students' backpacks on
> Fridays so they will eat over the weekend.


Right, because students carrying iPhones will go home to homes that cannot afford a loaf of bread and peanut butter and jelly.you naive liberals are so entertaining

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: here is how it works ()
Date: July 23, 2015 08:12AM

Havabite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TBT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Haters are going to hate. Those who think
> teachers
> > are lazy with "off" time will never change
> their
> > minds, so don't try to argue. They are
> incapable
> > of comprehending that teachers are not paid for
> 12
> > months - just 194 days in 10 months. Would like
> > more positive publicity about the teachers at
> > schools in FCPS who pack food that they
> purchase
> > into their impoverished students' backpacks on
> > Fridays so they will eat over the weekend.
>
>
> Right, because students carrying iPhones will go
> home to homes that cannot afford a loaf of bread
> and peanut butter and jelly.you naive liberals are
> so entertaining

If you would quit feeding these people, maybe they would quit coming to a place where they can't afford to live and should not have come to in the first place. Or, they will leave, which would be wonderful.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Richmond's big slice of pie ()
Date: July 23, 2015 08:25AM

Don't forget that a big part of this shortfall is because Richmond is not allocating state education funds appropriately to FCPS, and other NOVA school divisions

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Wellllllll...... ()
Date: July 23, 2015 08:43AM

Richmond's big slice of pie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't forget that a big part of this shortfall is
> because Richmond is not allocating state education
> funds appropriately to FCPS, and other NOVA school
> divisions

If people who can't afford this area quit coming here, and people who can't afford to live here would leave, then there would be more money for the people who stay, or we would not need so much. Less ESOL, subsidized fees, interpreters, etc.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Cause and Effect ()
Date: July 23, 2015 09:09AM

Richmond's big slice of pie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't forget that a big part of this shortfall is
> because Richmond is not allocating state education
> funds appropriately to FCPS, and other NOVA school
> divisions


Well, when at least 2 members of the House of Delegates have asked FCPS for information on spending and contracts and get no answer, it stands to follow that Richmond is not eager to keep throwing money at FCPS.

FCPS, in the form of the board and Garza, think they can have whatever they want because of the reputation of the schools. They think taxes will be raised and raised forever. They want the ability to make their own taxes. Well that is wrong, if they can't cope on their own budget, then they are in a spot.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 23, 2015 09:26AM

> AAP centers: Savings--more than 10
> million--probably closer to 15

Divided among FFx County teachers, this would provide about $715 before taxes more per year in salary per teacher. That amount is in the noise.

My point is, if you want to pursue any waste and abuse, go for it. I don't agree with your angle to tie it to teacher's salaries. That's a completely different subject. Where will we pay for teacher's salaries? Either in cuts to existing programs or in higher taxes.

Oh...yea, you did hear me right. Increase in taxes. I don't view that as a boogey-man phase. In my book, paying a couple hundred more each year to provide for teachers is worth it. County revenues are still climbing back from the housing fiasco, but if that's what it takes, it's a good investment IMHO.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 23, 2015 09:28AM

Havabite Wrote:

> Right, because students carrying iPhones will go
> home to homes that cannot afford a loaf of bread
> and peanut butter and jelly.you naive liberals are
> so entertaining

Man, I would LOVE to see you stand up in a crowd and make that comment in public. That is a really stupid statement.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: I know about teachers ()
Date: July 23, 2015 09:42AM

Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > AAP centers: Savings--more than 10
> > million--probably closer to 15
>
> Divided among FFx County teachers, this would
> provide about $715 before taxes more per year in
> salary per teacher. That amount is in the noise.
>
> My point is, if you want to pursue any waste and
> abuse, go for it. I don't agree with your angle
> to tie it to teacher's salaries. That's a
> completely different subject. Where will we pay
> for teacher's salaries? Either in cuts to
> existing programs or in higher taxes.
>
> Oh...yea, you did hear me right. Increase in
> taxes. I don't view that as a boogey-man phase.
> In my book, paying a couple hundred more each year
> to provide for teachers is worth it. County
> revenues are still climbing back from the housing
> fiasco, but if that's what it takes, it's a good
> investment IMHO.

Sure. You ignore the fact that there are many other programs that could also be cut. You ignore the fact that lots of money is spent on workshops and training for teachers that is unneeded. And, before you yell at me, I am a retired school teachers who is still in touch with colleagues. Yes, teachers need training from time to time, but all this "data driven" training and assistance is ridiculous. Schools have to pay subs for teachers to go to training. That is another waste.

I live here, too. I would not mind if my taxes went up if the money were spent wisely. However, the SB is spending much more time worrying about manipulating data (a frequent use of AAP centers and magnet programs to make poor schools look better). Keep kids in community schools and cut back on transportation costs. Have you looked at the cost of transportation?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 23, 2015 09:48AM

Game On, Hondo! Wrote:
> FCPS is paying Eric Jensen of Jensen Learning
> $9,000 a day to consult on poverty, neuroscience,
> and music. He has a sole source contract due to
> his credentials and experience.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I'm reading, the total value of that contract was $17,000. Where are you getting $9000/day like he's pulling down some sort of $2.3M annual salary? And this is for what appears to be some worthwhile workshops:

http://www.jlcbrain.com/

I HOPE my education system is looking beyond the horizon to see what's going on with the latest learning concepts. If my kid's teacher can figure out how to engage my child better in learning, I support that.

You see, this is really what hacks me off about you guys. You make a big noise about your concept of wasteful spending, and then toss out number that allude to a big problem. Then it turns out you're just being deceptive. If you have real value to add, then by all means post, but if you're just trying to stir things up with deceptive information, then perhaps you should move on.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Name names ()
Date: July 23, 2015 09:59AM

Cause and Effect Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richmond's big slice of pie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don't forget that a big part of this shortfall
> is
> > because Richmond is not allocating state
> education
> > funds appropriately to FCPS, and other NOVA
> school
> > divisions
>
>
> Well, when at least 2 members of the House of
> Delegates have asked FCPS for information on
> spending and contracts and get no answer, it
> stands to follow that Richmond is not eager to
> keep throwing money at FCPS.
>
Who are these Delegates? Do they represent NOVA, or are they downstate delegates? There's context at stake here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Some Facts on Eric Jensen ()
Date: July 23, 2015 10:31AM

Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Game On, Hondo! Wrote:
> > FCPS is paying Eric Jensen of Jensen Learning
> > $9,000 a day to consult on poverty,
> neuroscience,
> > and music. He has a sole source contract due to
> > his credentials and experience.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I'm
> reading, the total value of that contract was
> $17,000. Where are you getting $9000/day like
> he's pulling down some sort of $2.3M annual
> salary? And this is for what appears to be some
> worthwhile workshops:
>
> http://www.jlcbrain.com/
>
> I HOPE my education system is looking beyond the
> horizon to see what's going on with the latest
> learning concepts. If my kid's teacher can figure
> out how to engage my child better in learning, I
> support that.
>
> You see, this is really what hacks me off about
> you guys. You make a big noise about your concept
> of wasteful spending, and then toss out number
> that allude to a big problem. Then it turns out
> you're just being deceptive. If you have real
> value to add, then by all means post, but if
> you're just trying to stir things up with
> deceptive information, then perhaps you should
> move on.


The online contract is the current Eric Jensen contract. You will need to FOIA the others. Do the arithmetic, it comes out to about $9,000/day. No one says he gets that all year around here, but it is an average figure.

If what he does is worthwhile, where's the justification of that?

He has quite a few detractors:

http://mindsofkids.blogspot.com/2014/12/why-eric-jensen-is-ruby-payne-on_31.html

https://edphilosopher.wordpress.com/2009/07/04/brain-based-learning-stone-soup-and-the-rhetorical-eric-jensen/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1618515/

And at least one person involved in the FCPS comment process was not at all impressed with his results:
Attachments:
review_jensen.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: NOVA Delegates and FCPS ()
Date: July 23, 2015 10:33AM

Name names Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cause and Effect Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Richmond's big slice of pie Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Don't forget that a big part of this
> shortfall
> > is
> > > because Richmond is not allocating state
> > education
> > > funds appropriately to FCPS, and other NOVA
> > school
> > > divisions
> >
> >
> > Well, when at least 2 members of the House of
> > Delegates have asked FCPS for information on
> > spending and contracts and get no answer, it
> > stands to follow that Richmond is not eager to
> > keep throwing money at FCPS.
> >
> Who are these Delegates? Do they represent NOVA,
> or are they downstate delegates? There's context
> at stake here.

Marcus Simon and Kaye Kory. Very much NOVA delegates. They ask, FCPS does not respond.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Rhetorical Question ()
Date: July 23, 2015 11:33AM

If, Eric Jensen is the great expert and incisive educator he claims to be, why are FCPS' scores so awful?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Overnight Expert ()
Date: July 23, 2015 12:47PM

This renowned Eric Jensen has MA/PhD in organizational development from the Fielding Graduate Institute.

This is an online school. You go to one session, somewhere in the world, once a year, the rest is nonresident.

In addition to these degrees, Jensen has a degree in English.

Keep in mind, Jensen passes himself off as an expert in neuroscience and poverty.

The required classes for the PhD from Fielding are listed below.

722A-C are generic, could be for many PhD programs.

725-727 almost seem like introductory courses.

Where is the neuroscience? No labs or anything. Small wonder Jensen gets such bad review, matched, of course, by good dollars from FCPS.
Attachments:
fielding_HOD_required.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: If you only knew ()
Date: July 23, 2015 02:39PM

" There's a line thousands of people long, ready to fill your insipid shoes."


LOL. Yep, warm bodies. Only a pulse is needed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: you got that right ()
Date: July 23, 2015 03:16PM

You have to wonder about how some of these people got hired.

Look at Angela Atwater. She became Angela Atwater, Ed.D. in 2011.

She must have been doing that part time. She was an elementary school principal from 2008-2012.

She was "director of curriculum and instruction" for all of two months. Trust me, there's a story there.

She'd been adjunct faculty at George Mason since 2008. When she stopped being "director of curriculum and instruction" it looks like that's all she did.

Then, starting in 2013, FCPS, assistant superintendent, cluster 6.

I'm sure we could find others like her, maybe even others willing to listen to resident concerns instead of just saying the matter is closed.

See for yourself:
Attachments:
atwaterlinkedin.jpg

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 24, 2015 07:33AM

Some Facts on Eric Jensen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The online contract is the current Eric Jensen
> contract. You will need to FOIA the others. Do the
> arithmetic, it comes out to about $9,000/day. No
> one says he gets that all year around here, but it
> is an average figure.

Your post said the County paid him "$9,000 a day", which suggests a $2M annual salary. So your post was very misleading, which you used to justify your criticism.

> If what he does is worthwhile, where's the
> justification of that?

I don't know. I wasn't involved in the discussions when the decision was made to let the contract for his services. Were you? You also mentioned in your post that the sum I stated was not the only contract. That suggests there were others, and also suggests the Board felt the Seminars were worthwhile. If they were a waste, then why would they continue to let contracts. That wouldn't make sense - unless of course, you're into the idea there is some sort of "conspiracy" involved.

> He has quite a few detractors:
>
> http://mindsofkids.blogspot.com/2014/12/why-eric-j
> ensen-is-ruby-payne-on_31.html
>
> And at least one person involved in the FCPS
> comment process was not at all impressed with his
> results:

Oh, so you found one person in FCPS that was not impressed. Bravo. I would be surprised if ANYONE got a 100% rating.

So I think the real danger here is that you're throwing out a slew of "half-facts" and seem to have a predisposition that no one can be responsibly expected to spend funds wisely. I'm starting to get the impression you're one of those half-baked Glenn Beck generated conspiracy freaks who likes to work from half-facts and insinuation. In YOUR mind, the only real solution to creating an environment that would be satisfactory would be to hire a bunch of Auditors to monitor expenses and ensure no one is breaking the rules, along with the establishment of new rules that would become so onerous that it would take more time requesting and documenting the expenditure of funds than actually spending them. The upshot is that at the end of the day, probably 99% of the instances you're citing were discussed, considered, evaluated and voted on before the money was even spent.

So hiring new Auditors would make our County budget even larger, which runs counter to your bent for smaller government and less taxes. And even if these Auditors were hired, you would probably claim they were in the hip pocket of the School Board, were being ignored, or [add your favorite conspiracy theory here] some other reason. I think you're a dumb hypocrite with bent for creating a big issue where there is none.

This was a discussion on teachers pay, but you have yet to identify whether you feel a starting teacher's salary in FFx County (a little more than double what a Walmart greeter gets) is fair, or whether you feel it should be increased. I think their salaries are an embarrassment and they should be paid much more. How about taking a stand on this issue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2015 08:02AM by Hondo.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: causeican ()
Date: July 24, 2015 07:59AM

angry teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had to take certification classes this summer.
> My time off was only 6 weeks!


certification for what?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Economics 101 ()
Date: July 24, 2015 08:09AM

Hondo Wrote:

> This was a discussion on teachers pay, but you
> have yet to identify whether you feel a starting
> teacher's salary in FFx County (a little more than
> double what a Walmart greeter gets) is fair, or
> whether you feel it should be increased.

"Fairness" is irrelevant, in our society salaries are based on elementary microeconomics - supply and demand - i.e. what consumers are willing to pay for a product (labor in this case). Since it is relatively easy to qualify as a teacher (compared to a lawyer, electrical engineer etc.) there is a very high supply and demand is fixed based on student population. Additionally, the demand for many teachers specialties, such as English, History, Social sciences, PE etc. apply solely to the education field further limiting demand.
To answer your question, YES I think that supply/demand sets an appropriate salary for someone with a limiting degree that only works 9 months a year. If you want to make more money qualify for a field where demand is high and/or supply is low.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Education 102 ()
Date: July 24, 2015 08:47AM

Economics 101 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hondo Wrote:
>
> > This was a discussion on teachers pay, but you
> > have yet to identify whether you feel a
> starting
> > teacher's salary in FFx County (a little more
> than
> > double what a Walmart greeter gets) is fair, or
> > whether you feel it should be increased.
>
> "Fairness" is irrelevant, in our society salaries
> are based on elementary microeconomics - supply
> and demand - i.e. what consumers are willing to
> pay for a product (labor in this case). Since it
> is relatively easy to qualify as a teacher
> (compared to a lawyer, electrical engineer etc.)
> there is a very high supply and demand is fixed
> based on student population. Additionally, the
> demand for many teachers specialties, such as
> English, History, Social sciences, PE etc. apply
> solely to the education field further limiting
> demand.
> To answer your question, YES I think that
> supply/demand sets an appropriate salary for
> someone with a limiting degree that only works 9
> months a year. If you want to make more money
> qualify for a field where demand is high and/or
> supply is low.

Ah, we have a smug, arrogant smart person posting about how the education of children should be managed. Your hypothesis might apply to the business sector but education is slightly differant. Maybe you should it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: question for you ()
Date: July 24, 2015 08:50AM

1. What do you think is an appropriate salary--and realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
2. How do you intend to pay for this?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 24, 2015 08:52AM

Economics 101 Wrote:
> To answer your question, YES I think that
> supply/demand sets an appropriate salary for
> someone with a limiting degree that only works 9
> months a year. If you want to make more money
> qualify for a field where demand is high and/or
> supply is low.

"Supply and Demand"? But we're talking about the expenditure of GOVERNMENT funds, not private sector spending driven by profit/loss. And at least when I went to school, it was MACROeconomics in the case you're speaking of. Okay, it's obvious you're clueless, and I'm wasting my time here.

And again, you didn't answer the question. Perhaps you think our county budget is bloated for police and fire protection as well. You know, we could save a lot of money by contracting out our police work to a private security firm..... (NOT!)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 24, 2015 08:55AM

question for you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. What do you think is an appropriate salary--and
> realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> 2. How do you intend to pay for this?

I already answered that question. Read the thread dude.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: that's not an answer ()
Date: July 24, 2015 09:06AM

Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> question for you Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1. What do you think is an appropriate
> salary--and
> > realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> > 2. How do you intend to pay for this?
>
> I already answered that question. Read the thread
> dude.

I could not find the salary you think is appropriate. You just keep saying they should make more than double what a pizza guy makes--and actually they already do make more than double that.

1. What do you think should be the starting salary?
2. Just how much do you think our taxes should be raised? Or, do you want different taxes: sales tax, meals tax, ????
3. What should be the salary for a teacher with Masters and ten years experience? Real numbers, please.

You have made it clear that you want to raise taxes--is that all you've got?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Tax Payers Unite! ()
Date: July 24, 2015 09:21AM

SOL's were instituted by Congress thanks to Ted Kennedy. Yes, Bush supported/push it, but so did republicans and democrats in Congress.

If you want to take federal funds, you have to justify what you're doing with them. SOL's were an attempt to do that. It was poorly implemented and has been a bust. But going back to letting individual schools and districts determine how well they're doing while using tax payer's money from around the country is indefensible.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: I live in the real world ()
Date: July 24, 2015 09:27AM

Education 102 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Economics 101 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hondo Wrote:
> >
> > > This was a discussion on teachers pay, but
> you
> > > have yet to identify whether you feel a
> > starting
> > > teacher's salary in FFx County (a little more
> > than
> > > double what a Walmart greeter gets) is fair,
> or
> > > whether you feel it should be increased.
> >
> > "Fairness" is irrelevant, in our society
> salaries
> > are based on elementary microeconomics - supply
> > and demand - i.e. what consumers are willing to
> > pay for a product (labor in this case). Since
> it
> > is relatively easy to qualify as a teacher
> > (compared to a lawyer, electrical engineer
> etc.)
> > there is a very high supply and demand is fixed
> > based on student population. Additionally, the
> > demand for many teachers specialties, such as
> > English, History, Social sciences, PE etc.
> apply
> > solely to the education field further limiting
> > demand.
> > To answer your question, YES I think that
> > supply/demand sets an appropriate salary for
> > someone with a limiting degree that only works
> 9
> > months a year. If you want to make more money
> > qualify for a field where demand is high and/or
> > supply is low.
>
> Ah, we have a smug, arrogant smart person posting
> about how the education of children should be
> managed. Your hypothesis might apply to the
> business sector but education is slightly
> differant. Maybe you should it????????.


In the US, we spend more than almost any other country per student for education and yet we're at the middle of the pack for results and falling. And we've been falling for 20 years. What's up with that?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Economics 101 ()
Date: July 24, 2015 09:35AM

Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> "Supply and Demand"? But we're talking about the
> expenditure of GOVERNMENT funds, not private
> sector spending driven by profit/loss. And at
> least when I went to school, it was MACROeconomics
> in the case you're speaking of. Okay, it's
> obvious you're clueless, and I'm wasting my time
> here.
>
> And again, you didn't answer the question.
> Perhaps you think our county budget is bloated for
> police and fire protection as well. You know, we
> could save a lot of money by contracting out our
> police work to a private security firm..... (NOT!)

Actually supply and demand is used in both micro and macro, but micro principles are "universally" accepted by economists (over 95% agreement last study I saw) but macro includes a "values" component which results in significant controversy amongst economists. Politicians typically use Macro economics as it allows the "emotional" argument that micro does not. That is why the govement typically pays more for goods and services than an average consumer.

You want teachers to be paid more than the micro supply-demand curve dictates because it is the "right" thing to do - that is a macro concept.

I did answer your question, I believe teachers should be paid what the supply-demand curve dictates (what they currently make) - I do not buy into your emotional argument. $45K for 9 months work ($60K equivalent for 12 months) is more than appropriate for someone with a BA/Masters in English, History etc.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: some people ()
Date: July 24, 2015 09:40AM

I think some people on this thread have an inflated idea of what others make. For example, a starting teachers makes more than many of his/her contemporaries in the private sector with much better benefits.

People forget that FCPS is paying big bucks for benefits. The salary is only a portion of what the system pays. Health benefits are a huge drain. And, they cost the county more every year.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Taxpayers are fed up!
Posted by: Neuroscience 101 ()
Date: July 24, 2015 09:55AM

Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some Facts on Eric Jensen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----

>
> > If what he does is worthwhile, where's the
> > justification of that?
>
> I don't know. I wasn't involved in the
> discussions when the decision was made to let the
> contract for his services. Were you? You also
> mentioned in your post that the sum I stated was
> not the only contract. That suggests there were
> others, and also suggests the Board felt the
> Seminars were worthwhile. If they were a waste,
> then why would they continue to let contracts.
> That wouldn't make sense - unless of course,
> you're into the idea there is some sort of
> "conspiracy" involved.

The school board doesn't hire him. Various components of FCPS hire him. Said components succumb to his marketing. It is not uncommon in FCPS. Nardos King has admitted that she hired Flippen because of his marketing.

>
> > He has quite a few detractors:
> >
> >
> http://mindsofkids.blogspot.com/2014/12/why-eric-j
>
> > ensen-is-ruby-payne-on_31.html
> >
> > And at least one person involved in the FCPS
> > comment process was not at all impressed with
> his
> > results:

A LOT of people are unimpressed-nationwide. There is, of course, also the issue of his dubious credentials.

He's not a neuroscientist.

He's unaware of a large body of literature on poverty, and has refused to even look at it.

He likens personality to music, and says that "the more notes" music uses, the better it is. When challenged on this, he said someone should give him a more accurate example.

>
> Oh, so you found one person in FCPS that was not
> impressed. Bravo. I would be surprised if ANYONE
> got a 100% rating.
>
> So I think the real danger here is that you're
> throwing out a slew of "half-facts" and seem to
> have a predisposition that no one can be
> responsibly expected to spend funds wisely. I'm
> starting to get the impression you're one of those
> half-baked Glenn Beck generated conspiracy freaks
> who likes to work from half-facts and insinuation.
> In YOUR mind, the only real solution to creating
> an environment that would be satisfactory would be
> to hire a bunch of Auditors to monitor expenses
> and ensure no one is breaking the rules, along
> with the establishment of new rules that would
> become so onerous that it would take more time
> requesting and documenting the expenditure of
> funds than actually spending them. The upshot is
> that at the end of the day, probably 99% of the
> instances you're citing were discussed,
> considered, evaluated and voted on before the
> money was even spent.
>
> So hiring new Auditors would make our County
> budget even larger, which runs counter to your
> bent for smaller government and less taxes. And
> even if these Auditors were hired, you would
> probably claim they were in the hip pocket of the
> School Board, were being ignored, or [add your
> favorite conspiracy theory here] some other
> reason. I think you're a dumb hypocrite with bent
> for creating a big issue where there is none.

I think some kind of audit is needed when sole source contracts are given to "neuroscientists" of dubious background, and when contracts are let for a "mindfulness initiative" when the initiative's leaders own references do not support her position.

FCPS has a contracting department-but it is clear they are not checking references and backgrounds of vendors, or they would find these things.

>
> This was a discussion on teachers pay, but you
> have yet to identify whether you feel a starting
> teacher's salary in FFx County (a little more than
> double what a Walmart greeter gets) is fair, or
> whether you feel it should be increased. I think
> their salaries are an embarrassment and they
> should be paid much more. How about taking a
> stand on this issue.

I have no problem with increasing teachers' salaries-they are the ones who are doing what the schools should be doing. Having said that, this increase cannot take place via higher taxes. It is my position that the schools are wasteful and bloated. Let the teachers teach. Let the likes of Eric Jensen stay in Hawaii. Let instructional coaches find other jobs, and that also applies to the crowd at Gatehouse.

Marie Lemmon should NOT get her legal fees paid by FCPS, and Fabio Zuluaga should be taken to task for this-as soon, of course, as he returns from his FCPS-paid trip to Korea.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: teacber ()
Date: July 24, 2015 10:50AM

question for you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. What do you think is an appropriate salary--and
> realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> 2. How do you intend to pay for this?

90,000 to 150,000 depending on experence.

Education costs nothing. Each dollar spent on education returns hundreds in tax revenue. The educated students go on to pay taxes for the rest of their lives.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Motive H8ed ()
Date: July 24, 2015 11:01AM

teacber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> question for you Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1. What do you think is an appropriate
> salary--and
> > realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> > 2. How do you intend to pay for this?
>
> 90,000 to 150,000 depending on experence.
>
> Education costs nothing. Each dollar spent on
> education returns hundreds in tax revenue. The
> educated students go on to pay taxes for the rest
> of their lives.


Got any peer reviewed studies that demonstrate this?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: teacher views on Eric Jensen? ()
Date: July 24, 2015 11:03AM

teacber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> question for you Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1. What do you think is an appropriate
> salary--and
> > realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> > 2. How do you intend to pay for this?
>
> 90,000 to 150,000 depending on experence.
>
> Education costs nothing. Each dollar spent on
> education returns hundreds in tax revenue. The
> educated students go on to pay taxes for the rest
> of their lives.

As a teacher, what do you think of the value of Eric Jensen's training?

A round number, Jensen is getting about $50K a year from FCPS, is that $50K better applied to paying him or raising a salary? There are, by the way, many like Jensen in FCPS, so you are eventually looking at a big number and therefore the potential of nice raises. Otherwise, you will be stuck with Jensen, Flippen and that mindfulness guru.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Who? ()
Date: July 24, 2015 11:24AM

I am entering my 23rd year teaching for FCPS and I have no idea who Eric Jensen is. His name rings a bell and that's about it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: do you know they do already? ()
Date: July 24, 2015 12:18PM

teacber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> question for you Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1. What do you think is an appropriate
> salary--and
> > realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> > 2. How do you intend to pay for this?
>
> 90,000 to 150,000 depending on experence.
>
> Education costs nothing. Each dollar spent on
> education returns hundreds in tax revenue. The
> educated students go on to pay taxes for the rest
> of their lives.

Do you know that teachers in FCPS are being paid that much? Lots of them. And, if you count benefits, most of them are currently making that much.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: July 24, 2015 01:27PM

teacber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Education costs nothing. Each dollar spent on
> education returns hundreds in tax revenue. The
> educated students go on to pay taxes for the rest
> of their lives.

Anyone who says education costs nothing is extremely ignorant. Education does cost, and actually costs a great deal. Just because something is a great investment over the long run does not mean that it has no cost.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: how it is ()
Date: July 24, 2015 01:34PM

" -----
> > 1. What do you think is an appropriate
> salary--and
> > realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> > 2. How do you intend to pay for this?
>
> 90,000 to 150,000 depending on experence.
>
> Education costs nothing. Each dollar spent on
> education returns hundreds in tax revenue. The
> educated students go on to pay taxes for the rest
> of their lives.

Do you know that teachers in FCPS are being paid that much? Lots of them. And, if you count benefits, most of them are currently making that much."


Health benefits with FCPS are not that great. The amount the teachers are paying is a lot. I take my benefits on my husband's plan because FCPS is MUCH more expensive. And, I have 26 years in the system and am just now getting to 90K. I will be retiring soon, so I only have a few years at this salary. I am putting a child through college. This is not some kind of a luxury income. And, I am living in Fairfax County and paying taxes here. Lots of the people I teach with are driving in from Front Royal, parts of Loudoun and Fauquier, Prince William, etc. I am lucky to have a spouse who works for the federal government. We are not rich and certainly would not be able to buy our house at current prices (we bought in the 90's).

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Tired of this thread ()
Date: July 24, 2015 02:25PM

Employment is very much like investing - the most lucrative payoffs require the hardest work and acceptance of significant risk. While the low payoffs require minimal work and have practically no risk.

If you want to have the opportunity (not the guarantee) to make lots of money then don't work for the government.

However, if you want a job with an above average salary, lots of vacation time, reasonable benefits, little to no chance of being fired, pay that is tied to longevity instead of performance and a sweetheart retirement plan then the government is for you.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: tgb ()
Date: July 24, 2015 02:47PM

how it is Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> " -----
> > > 1. What do you think is an appropriate
> > salary--and
> > > realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> > > 2. How do you intend to pay for this?
> >
> > 90,000 to 150,000 depending on experence.
> >
> > Education costs nothing. Each dollar spent on
> > education returns hundreds in tax revenue. The
> > educated students go on to pay taxes for the
> rest
> > of their lives.
>
> Do you know that teachers in FCPS are being paid
> that much? Lots of them. And, if you count
> benefits, most of them are currently making that
> much."
>
>
> Health benefits with FCPS are not that great. The
> amount the teachers are paying is a lot. I take
> my benefits on my husband's plan because FCPS is
> MUCH more expensive. And, I have 26 years in the
> system and am just now getting to 90K. I will be
> retiring soon, so I only have a few years at this
> salary. I am putting a child through college.
> This is not some kind of a luxury income. And, I
> am living in Fairfax County and paying taxes here.
> Lots of the people I teach with are driving in
> from Front Royal, parts of Loudoun and Fauquier,
> Prince William, etc. I am lucky to have a spouse
> who works for the federal government. We are not
> rich and certainly would not be able to buy our
> house at current prices (we bought in the 90's).

You think FCPS benefits are expensive now? Wait until you retire! FCPS retiree's pay all but $100 of the monthly premium. It could cost you between $1k and $1,200 per month for two of you. Good thing your hubby's bennies cost less.

http://www.fcps.edu/hr/benefits/publications/2014/2014RetireeHealthPremiumERFC.pdf

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Eric Jensen PR Department ()
Date: July 24, 2015 02:48PM

Who? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am entering my 23rd year teaching for FCPS and I
> have no idea who Eric Jensen is. His name rings a
> bell and that's about it.

Eric Jensen:

"Teaching with Poverty in Mind"

"Teaching with the Brain in Mind"

"Teaching with Music in Mind"

etc.

BA in English. MA and PhD in "organizational development" from the Fielding Graduate Institute.

He gives seminars-teaching the teachers how to teach. He is in Hawaii, so factoring in his travel,lodging, and fees, he runs about $9,000 a day.

Based on this combination of education and experience, FCPS has NO PROBLEM giving him a sole source contract.

He has MANY self promotional websites and quite a few negative review.

You are lucky you have never had to sit through any of his drivel. Here's a funny thing, he thinks that chromatic music is the best kind of music, and likens it to a fully functional brain. What's funny? He appears to be unfamiliar with what that music sounds like.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Who? ()
Date: July 24, 2015 02:52PM

Eric Jensen PR Department Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am entering my 23rd year teaching for FCPS and
> I
> > have no idea who Eric Jensen is. His name rings
> a
> > bell and that's about it.
>
> Eric Jensen:
>
> "Teaching with Poverty in Mind"
>
> "Teaching with the Brain in Mind"
>
> "Teaching with Music in Mind"
>
> etc.
>
> BA in English. MA and PhD in "organizational
> development" from the Fielding Graduate
> Institute.
>
> He gives seminars-teaching the teachers how to
> teach. He is in Hawaii, so factoring in his
> travel,lodging, and fees, he runs about $9,000 a
> day.
>
> Based on this combination of education and
> experience, FCPS has NO PROBLEM giving him a sole
> source contract.
>
> He has MANY self promotional websites and quite a
> few negative review.
>
> You are lucky you have never had to sit through
> any of his drivel. Here's a funny thing, he thinks
> that chromatic music is the best kind of music,
> and likens it to a fully functional brain. What's
> funny? He appears to be unfamiliar with what that
> music sounds like.

Just to follow-up, my wife has taught in FCPS for 9 years. I asked her if she knew who Eric Jensen is. She replied, "No. Should I?".

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Eric Jensen and FCPS ()
Date: July 24, 2015 02:59PM

Who? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eric Jensen PR Department Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Who? Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I am entering my 23rd year teaching for FCPS
> and
> > I
> > > have no idea who Eric Jensen is. His name
> rings
> > a
> > > bell and that's about it.
> >
> > Eric Jensen:
> >
> > "Teaching with Poverty in Mind"
> >
> > "Teaching with the Brain in Mind"
> >
> > "Teaching with Music in Mind"
> >
> > etc.
> >
> > BA in English. MA and PhD in "organizational
> > development" from the Fielding Graduate
> > Institute.
> >
> > He gives seminars-teaching the teachers how to
> > teach. He is in Hawaii, so factoring in his
> > travel,lodging, and fees, he runs about $9,000
> a
> > day.
> >
> > Based on this combination of education and
> > experience, FCPS has NO PROBLEM giving him a
> sole
> > source contract.
> >
> > He has MANY self promotional websites and quite
> a
> > few negative review.
> >
> > You are lucky you have never had to sit through
> > any of his drivel. Here's a funny thing, he
> thinks
> > that chromatic music is the best kind of music,
> > and likens it to a fully functional brain.
> What's
> > funny? He appears to be unfamiliar with what
> that
> > music sounds like.
>
> Just to follow-up, my wife has taught in FCPS for
> 9 years. I asked her if she knew who Eric Jensen
> is. She replied, "No. Should I?".

Google "Eric Jensen FCPS" many hits including this:

http://www.fcps.edu/SandburgMS/About_Sandburg/SIP_at_a_glance.pdf

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: get real, please ()
Date: July 24, 2015 03:43PM

how it is Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> " -----
> > > 1. What do you think is an appropriate
> > salary--and
> > > realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> > > 2. How do you intend to pay for this?
> >
> > 90,000 to 150,000 depending on experence.
> >
> > Education costs nothing. Each dollar spent on
> > education returns hundreds in tax revenue. The
> > educated students go on to pay taxes for the
> rest
> > of their lives.
>
> Do you know that teachers in FCPS are being paid
> that much? Lots of them. And, if you count
> benefits, most of them are currently making that
> much."
>
>
> Health benefits with FCPS are not that great. The
> amount the teachers are paying is a lot. I take
> my benefits on my husband's plan because FCPS is
> MUCH more expensive. And, I have 26 years in the
> system and am just now getting to 90K. I will be
> retiring soon, so I only have a few years at this
> salary. I am putting a child through college.
> This is not some kind of a luxury income. And, I
> am living in Fairfax County and paying taxes here.
> Lots of the people I teach with are driving in
> from Front Royal, parts of Loudoun and Fauquier,
> Prince William, etc. I am lucky to have a spouse
> who works for the federal government. We are not
> rich and certainly would not be able to buy our
> house at current prices (we bought in the 90's).

You are comparing your benefits to what the feds get. This is apples and oranges. Federal benefits are among the best. Most companies don't have those kinds of benefits.

Also, to the poster who mentioned that the school system only contributes $100 for retiree health benefits--do you know that most retirees from private companies get no help from their employer? Of course, most don't retire until they reach Medicare--whereas FCPS teachers are able to retire much, much earlier. So, when you reach 65, you can look forward to paying less.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: mister spellman ()
Date: July 24, 2015 05:57PM

teacber Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> question for you Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 1. What do you think is an appropriate
> salary--and
> > realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> > 2. How do you intend to pay for this?
>
> 90,000 to 150,000 depending on experence.
>
> Education costs nothing. Each dollar spent on
> education returns hundreds in tax revenue. The
> educated students go on to pay taxes for the rest
> of their lives.


Teacher not Teacber.
Do you teach English?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: white fang ()
Date: July 27, 2015 03:45AM

mister spellman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> teacber Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > question for you Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > 1. What do you think is an appropriate
> > salary--and
> > > realistic--for a teacher in FCPS.
> > > 2. How do you intend to pay for this?
> >
> > 90,000 to 150,000 depending on experence.
> >
> > Education costs nothing. Each dollar spent on
> > education returns hundreds in tax revenue. The
> > educated students go on to pay taxes for the
> rest
> > of their lives.
>
>
> Teacher not Teacber.
> Do you teach English?


Funny, teacher cant spell.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: non teachers don't have a say ()
Date: July 28, 2015 04:04PM

I don't make that much and I've been teaching in the county for three years with my masters degree.

TheGreenThumb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Starting salary for a full year (260 day) FCPS
> teacher is $55,432.
>
> Average starting salary for recent graduates of
> UVA and VT is $51K. $55,432 is also higher than
> the average starting salaries for grads of
> Harvard, Yale, Brown and Georgetown. It looks like
> FCPS is already well-positioned to 'green' their
> workforce...but certainly keep asking for more
> money!
>
> http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014
> /full-list-of-schools

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Fact Finder ()
Date: July 28, 2015 06:21PM

That's because you -- like 95% or more of the teachers in the county -- don't work 260 days. You work 194 days. And if TheGreenThumb who made the original comment weren't trying to inflate his case, he would have cited the beginning salary of a teacher with a 4-year degree -- you know, like the same degree the people he is comparing teachers to:

2015-16 FCPS beginning salary (194 days) with a bachelor's degree: 47,046

That would be $4,000 LESS than the average graduate of VT and UVA with a bachelor's in 2014, NOT 4,000 more as falsely stated below. I wonder how many of our new teachers also happen to be graduates of VT and UVA, earning less than their peers, on average -- for the rest of their careers!

In the end, though, I no longer care about all the people who complain about teacher salaries. I used to get all upset, but now When it comes to what they think of my salary or how I earn it -- they can just move along with their stinky hot air. Can there be such a group of desperate, pathetic parents as these that they organize themselves on Fairfax Underground, which is nothing but a cesspool for degenerate Fairfax County residents (but far better local entertainment than "Real Housewives" on Bravo)? Yup, whenever I read these threads about what people think they know about my job and how I don't earn my income, I just consider the source.

But when they lie about the facts -- then I'll say something.




non teachers don't have a say Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't make that much and I've been teaching in
> the county for three years with my masters
> degree.
>
> TheGreenThumb Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Starting salary for a full year (260 day) FCPS
> > teacher is $55,432.
> >
> > Average starting salary for recent graduates of
> > UVA and VT is $51K. $55,432 is also higher than
> > the average starting salaries for grads of
> > Harvard, Yale, Brown and Georgetown. It looks
> like
> > FCPS is already well-positioned to 'green'
> their
> > workforce...but certainly keep asking for more
> > money!
> >
> >
> http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2014
>
> > /full-list-of-schools

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Hondo ()
Date: July 29, 2015 07:40AM

Fact Finder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's because you -- like 95% or more of the
> teachers in the county -- don't work 260 days. You
> work 194 days. And if TheGreenThumb who made the
> original comment weren't trying to inflate his
> case, he would have cited the beginning salary of
> a teacher with a 4-year degree -- you know, like
> the same degree the people he is comparing
> teachers to:
>
> 2015-16 FCPS beginning salary (194 days) with a
> bachelor's degree: 47,046

So can you tell me again how a teacher is supposed to get by on that salary living in Fairfax County - or anyone for that matter?

A few facts:

- That salary puts teachers in the bottom fifth of income earners in the County
- That salary matches the median household income in FFx County.....in 1984 (it's presently over $113K, and median as you know is the midpoint for our total population in the county)
- The average rental complex rent in FFx county is over $1600/mo.
- Subtract rent, food, car payments, gas for getting to and from work, and medical, and how much is left?

So to those who are working their spreadsheet numbers and saying we can't pay our teachers salaries and they "get what the market bears", I would say, it's not a matter of spreadsheet numbers or "The Market". It's a matter or doing what's right and paying our starting teachers a decent wage. The fact is, this County CAN afford to do it. But as always, it's a matter of those who already have a lot and are unwilling to invest in our future by investing in our kids. It's sorta a waste of time discussing the issue with these folks. They "have theirs", and they're not willing to give up one additional penny to pay teachers a decent wage.

These salaries are an embarrassment IMHO.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Examples ()
Date: July 29, 2015 08:30AM

I think it would be an eye-opener if some brave 1st year teacher would show the monthly take-home pay from a pay stub after taxes, medical, mandatory VRS/ERFC deductions (that's right, it's not optional like a 401K...yes it is a benefit in the long run when you retire, but it rely shrinks your paycheck).

Any first year teacher willing to share what their monthly take home is?

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Mr. Spreadsheet ()
Date: July 29, 2015 09:56AM

Hondo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fact Finder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's because you -- like 95% or more of the
> > teachers in the county -- don't work 260 days.
> You
> > work 194 days. And if TheGreenThumb who made
> the
> > original comment weren't trying to inflate his
> > case, he would have cited the beginning salary
> of
> > a teacher with a 4-year degree -- you know,
> like
> > the same degree the people he is comparing
> > teachers to:
> >
> > 2015-16 FCPS beginning salary (194 days) with a
> > bachelor's degree: 47,046
>
> So can you tell me again how a teacher is supposed
> to get by on that salary living in Fairfax County
> - or anyone for that matter?
>
> A few facts:
>
> - That salary puts teachers in the bottom fifth of
> income earners in the County
> - That salary matches the median household income
> in FFx County.....in 1984 (it's presently over
> $113K, and median as you know is the midpoint for
> our total population in the county)
> - The average rental complex rent in FFx county is
> over $1600/mo.
> - Subtract rent, food, car payments, gas for
> getting to and from work, and medical, and how
> much is left?
>
> So to those who are working their spreadsheet
> numbers and saying we can't pay our teachers
> salaries and they "get what the market bears", I
> would say, it's not a matter of spreadsheet
> numbers or "The Market". It's a matter or doing
> what's right and paying our starting teachers a
> decent wage. The fact is, this County CAN afford
> to do it. But as always, it's a matter of those
> who already have a lot and are unwilling to invest
> in our future by investing in our kids. It's
> sorta a waste of time discussing the issue with
> these folks. They "have theirs", and they're not
> willing to give up one additional penny to pay
> teachers a decent wage.
>
> These salaries are an embarrassment IMHO.

The feds compute an average year at 2,087 hours which equates to aprox. 260 days.

So a teacher that works for 194 days works 75% of the average(194/260). Therefore a teacher's salary of $47,046 is the equivalent of $63,051 for a full time worker, well above the UVA/VT salaries previously quoted.

Bottom line is our teachers are more than adequately compensated. As a previous poster said they get what the market will bear.

If they want more money then take on a second job or work full time in another profession.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Sillary Clit ()
Date: July 29, 2015 10:01AM

Are FFX teachers forced to work here?

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Economist ()
Date: July 29, 2015 11:33AM

Mr. Spreadsheet Wrote:
> The feds compute an average year at 2,087 hours
> which equates to aprox. 260 days.
>
> So a teacher that works for 194 days works 75% of
> the average(194/260). Therefore a teacher's
> salary of $47,046 is the equivalent of $63,051 for
> a full time worker, well above the UVA/VT salaries
> previously quoted.
>
> Bottom line is our teachers are more than
> adequately compensated. As a previous poster said
> they get what the market will bear.
>
> If they want more money then take on a second job
> or work full time in another profession.


An alternative - Change the Market to a standard labor market, a few ideas:

1) Use a multiplier based on national averages to pay based on degree - a Math degreed teacher would make significantly more than a PE teacher.
2) Pay teachers based on ability instead of longevity - so called merit pay.
3) Increase the barriers to entry (lowers the supply). Require more classes and or certs to teach.
4) Don't educate illegal aliens whose parents don't pay taxes (increased tax dollars available per student).
5) Run school year round (increases hours worked) and raise pay accordingly.
6) Decrease allowable class size (increases demand).
7) Reduce overhead (gatehouse, asst. principals etc.) (increased tax dollars available per student).

Note: The teachers' union would NEVER allow 1-5, their model (as is the case with all unions) is "lowest common denominator."

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Number cruncher ()
Date: July 29, 2015 11:51AM

Examples: the FCPS website has a paycheck modeling feature http://careers.fcps.edu/payroll/model.shtml and all the information for the numbers can be found on the posted salary scales and benefits information on the website.
Running the model with a salary of 46, 756 (first year, bachelor's degree) and using only the minimum cost health care plans (89.34 for medical, 7.18 for dental), with 0 excemptions and living in Virginia, the salary is just under 3,000/month- 2966 exactly, but I will round up to make the math easier-(keep in mind this is earned 10 months, so the take home is under 30,000/year). That's about 2500/month, and if the average apartment is around 1600/month (as a poster above noted), that leaves 900/month for college loan payments, car costs, food, utilities, etc. That's a rough situation for the people establishing the foundation for our future.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Daddy Warbucks III ()
Date: July 29, 2015 12:05PM

Examples Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
yes it is a benefit in
> the long run when you retire, but it rely shrinks
> your paycheck.


Brilliant analysis by FCPS overpaid finest. Any child with a piggy bank knows this.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Son of Karl Marx ()
Date: July 29, 2015 01:18PM

Let the teachers quit. Then let's see what Garza and McElveen do. Probably nothing, as they don't care about teaching.

People here are such sheep-too many people running unopposed in the election. They have do nothing jobs for life.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Sillary Clit ()
Date: July 29, 2015 01:34PM

Son of Karl Marx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let the teachers quit. Then let's see what Garza
> and McElveen do. Probably nothing, as they don't
> care about teaching.
>
> People here are such sheep-too many people running
> unopposed in the election. They have do nothing
> jobs for life.


"Let the teachers quit." And we'll hire more. There isn't a shortage of teachers.

Supply and demand.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: writing on the wall ()
Date: July 29, 2015 01:51PM

Let the teachers quit.

Pretty soon, FCPS will be left with nothing but the likes of Nardos King.

They'll hire more teachers, pay them less. The schools will tank. McElveen won't care, he has his eye on the House of Delegates. Garza won't care, she'll probably become an educational consultant.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: I was a beginning teacher ()
Date: July 29, 2015 04:18PM

Number cruncher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Examples: the FCPS website has a paycheck modeling
> feature
> http://careers.fcps.edu/payroll/model.shtml and
> all the information for the numbers can be found
> on the posted salary scales and benefits
> information on the website.
> Running the model with a salary of 46, 756 (first
> year, bachelor's degree) and using only the
> minimum cost health care plans (89.34 for medical,
> 7.18 for dental), with 0 excemptions and living in
> Virginia, the salary is just under 3,000/month-
> 2966 exactly, but I will round up to make the math
> easier-(keep in mind this is earned 10 months, so
> the take home is under 30,000/year). That's about
> 2500/month, and if the average apartment is around
> 1600/month (as a poster above noted), that leaves
> 900/month for college loan payments, car costs,
> food, utilities, etc. That's a rough situation
> for the people establishing the foundation for our
> future.

When I was a beginning teacher, I had a roommate. That cuts back on rent pretty dramatically. Utilities, as well. There are many opportunities for extra money if a teacher is willing to tutor. That is a source of extra money, and certainly there are opportunities to work in the summer.

Besides, most of the kids coming out and beginning to teach now already have Masters' degrees.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: beginning salary ()
Date: July 29, 2015 04:24PM

The beginning salary for a first year teacher with a Masters is over 52,000. For ten months' work.

Almost all the Virginia colleges are turning out first year teachers with Masters' degrees. These days, that is the standard program.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: John879 ()
Date: July 29, 2015 06:27PM

Stop defending principals like Marie Lemmon who discriminate against employees / students and you'll save millions. She cost this county so much money that we could have hired 10 teachers!! And, Karen Garza / Fabio protects her. What ever! Don't ask taxpayers to foot the bill to keep Lemmon off the front page---oh, thats right, she was on the front page across the US. Don't ask me for another penny to support her practices.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: gym teacher ()
Date: July 31, 2015 02:21PM

I enjoy teaching gym. It is a easy, gravy do next to nothing job.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Supply and demand huh? ()
Date: July 31, 2015 03:09PM

Colleges are NOT putting out more teachers, so the demand is high and the supply is low. Would love to know how many Virginia college students graduated with education degrees in 2015 as opposed to 2005.

As evidenced by this topic thread, educators are not respected by the American public. That disrespect, subpar pay, and more work has convince less people to go into the profession.

In the meantime, look what's happening in Indiana.

http://www.wfyi.org/news/articles/indiana-lawmakers-ask-for-study-on-cause-of-teacher-shortage

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: pioneer avation ()
Date: August 01, 2015 09:24AM

gym teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I enjoy teaching gym. It is a easy, gravy do next
> to nothing job.


How is that 47k a year working out for you? Loser.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: qpuori ()
Date: August 01, 2015 12:48PM

pioneer avation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gym teacher Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I enjoy teaching gym. It is a easy, gravy do
> next
> > to nothing job.
>
>
> How is that 47k a year working out for you? Loser.


you are an idiot, let me guess, you went to UVA and live in Great Falls, hopefully your kind will become extinct over time.

give PE teachers some respect. they teach your kids about health, drugs, driving and fitness. everyone remembers their gym teacher.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: xLpdT ()
Date: August 01, 2015 02:40PM

>everyone remembers their gym teacher.

Him and the guidance counselor but only as counter examples.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: 70's ()
Date: August 01, 2015 02:53PM

xLpdT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >everyone remembers their gym teacher.
>
> Him and the guidance counselor but only as counter
> examples.


gym teacher made fun of "fat" kids with asthma who couldn't run fast in the 70's, fcps gym teachers are not like this

70's guidance counselor was dumber than a box of rocks

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: lack of respect ()
Date: August 01, 2015 03:06PM

Why so much hate for educators?

1) School boards voting themselves raises.

2) School administrators with housing allowances, drivers, free iPads, who knows what else.

3) School administrators who do not respond to citizen emails.

4) School board members who do not respond to citizen emails.

5) School systems hiring unqualified consultants.

6) Bloated school systems-too many administrators and non-teachers such as instructional coaches.

7) Too much emphasis on sports-what % play football? Remember, girls can't play, so the so-called benefits can't apply to them.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: Time to do it ()
Date: August 01, 2015 10:19PM

They leave us no choice except work to the rule.

The kids are the big losers now.

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Re: Fairfax county teachers are fed up!
Posted by: sum guy ()
Date: August 02, 2015 06:54AM

gym teacher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I enjoy teaching gym. It is a easy, gravy do next
> to nothing job.


is this you?
Attachments:
fat gym.jpg

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