Is it just me or is it fucked up that those two Abu Graib bitches are from around here? Something about Fairfax makes it a breeding ground for torturers?

Lyndie England - C-ville
Sabrina Harman - Springfield

im not positive but im rather sure that they come from military families. they are bred with the same mentality as military personel and then it's reinforced with their own experience. the psychological profile of your typical military servicemen is not pretty. when encouraged, im confident that most military people would act the same.

yeah... proud to be

"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I think Harman's mean streak came from being an assistant manager at a Papa John's... just walk into the Papa John's over by Oak Post in Centreville and you'll see the managers work over employees there... scary.

On England... all the info I can find says she is a native of West Virginia. Where did the Centreville info come from?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2005 08:04AM by pgens.

Gravis, feel free to carry your sorry unamerican ass out of the country then. Don't let the door hit ya either.....tool.

I used to work IN the PJ's in c-ville, so I know all about it

they treat people like shit. ironic seeing as they serve shit, too.

HScheesedicksmustdie,
Please restrict your insults to private messages and not the threads. Yes, it would mean you would have to register. Others assuredly do not want to hear your bickering.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Interesting, I've never heard of Centreville as "C-Ville."

That's a very popular name for Charlottesville and, in fact, there's a newspaper down here by that name.

Gravis,
Eat a dick.
Tool.

Thanks for the psyc profile on the military servicemen. Its pretty easy to fly that flag upside down while their over in some far away county getting killed so you can do just that. Freedoms strange thing..tool

jimmy and HScheesedicksmustdie,
Stay in school... you might learn something. As for them dying to protect our country, they aren't. They are not protecting as we are not on defense but rather offense. As for the profile, that applies to those who A) completely accept it or B) have been enlisted for 4 years. Finally, they volunteered to go fight and possibly be killed, not drafted. As far as I'm concerned, it is there own doing. Again, keep the childishness to a minimum.



"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> im not positive but im rather sure that they come
> from military families. they are bred with the
> same mentality as military personel and then it's
> reinforced with their own experience. the
> psychological profile of your typical military
> servicemen is not pretty. when encouraged, im
> confident that most military people would act the
> same.
> yeah... proud to be
>
> unfairfax adaptivetime com


Dude, inhuman is inhuman. It has nothing to do with military families, etc. I grew up in the army. My father was airborne, ranger, pathfinder. Led a platoon in Vietnam as part of the first US based combat troops sent to Vietnam by Johnson (see "we were soldiers", his platoon protected a fire base during the battle the movie depicts) I grew up on a "forward-deployed" combat infantry division base in the pacific. Meaning, perpetual combat readiness, meaning I heard artillery off in the distance, watched training exercises a hundred yards from my playground, had fleets of 15, 20, or more armed helicopters fly over my house 24 hours a day, collected live, blank round ammunition out of garbage cans on my way home from school. And I'm not a warmonger. I'm against the war in Iraq, saw the misguidedness of the whole thing well before they even started going full tilt trying to sell the concept of going into Iraq. I'm a TRUE conservative, which IS a military-background trait, but I disagree with the current "conservative" politicians' outlook, beliefs and actions.

Torture serves only ONE purpose -- it puts everyone else on notice that their actions could cause them PAIN. Don't browse a disapproved, "militant" web site. Don't associate with questionable people. Because you might get tortured in order to find out whether you plan on harming the power status-quou. It's a concept of control our current leadership liked about the middle-east governments as they dealt with them in business and intelligence activities, and so they've adopted it as their own.

So don't make generalizations like that. Most military brats have a much better perspective on the world at large, a much better attitude of the use of force, etc than the average uninitiated fool who spouts out generalized mainstream attitudes and opinions. Have you ever heard the saying that "Soldiers are the biggest pacifists" or some variation? Politicians, the people that succeeded in car sales or some other empty endeavor and decided to translate their success into power, those are the folks that perpetuate the war culture. Not soldiers. Except for the people at the top echelons of the military, who tend to be civilian or who somehow know they'll profit from war (see Ollie North), they of course push for war. But soldiers prefer peace. After all, they're the ones that have to face the meat grinder, and actually understand war's full implications.


Torture doesn't produce good intelligence. Even the torturers say that the tortured will tell the torturers what they want to hear. But they eventually will be released into the target population to describe their torture, and then everyone is afraid to speak out, stand up, or otherwise put themselves in the position where they might suffer the same fate. Get it?

PhilLesh, well said.

PhilLesh,
Your situation is very unique. My statements were based on the children of fathers that are active military personel in peacetime. I've meet many people who live in a military family and their attitudes toward issues outside the country are very strongheaded and vigilant. I did not say all people in military families were as I know that isnt true. Also I did not say military personel were warmongers but I see how you confused this. Oh... as far as supporting the war or not, I do not support it nor am I against it but rather I accept it as a reality, so I'm unopinionated as far as the war in Iraq goes.

The whole torture bit, I never said I approved. It is as you said a horrible practice. Your view on torture on social control is correct. However, when you get down to the person doing the torture, it's a powertrip. It makes them feel God-like being in full control. The torturer may not even know who they are controlling but rather the fact that they have absolute domain over them is what does it. This same effect happens with cops all the time with which I have first hand experience.

>"Most military brats have a much better perspective on the world at large, a much better attitude of the use of force, etc than the average uninitiated fool who spouts out generalized mainstream attitudes and opinions."

This couldn't be futher from the truth. Almost everyone I know, both non-military associated and those who are, have a very narrow misguided perspective of the world. The news in america is rubish that is bais and doesn't cover anything relevant. It was a huge internation deal that we accidentally killed 100+ Canadian troops in Iraq and then never appologized. However, it was never mentioned in the US news(to my knowledge). I do have a global perspective as I read news from all parts of the world and have found that BBC News has the least bais on TV. I am no fool reguardless of your emotional responce to being offended.

Though you may think you have more authority to say what is and isn't, it may not be true. I understand your responce but my experience is that when provoked or encouraged, military members' actions will reflect what has been drilled into their heads for years, that those higher up in chain of command have absolute power over those under them.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis, you're not from the US, are you? You use terms that the British and Canadians use.

My Friend got back from Iraq

What we never heard back here in the U.S. -

Saddam was going to use Chemical weapons on the US population as soon as possible. Items such as hairspray cans and shaving cream cans were going to be used to disperse chemical agents. Easy to smuggle into US with boring luggage. How mad would you be once your parents died because of it? Or your children?

Outside of Ramadi Iraq a rape camp was shut down by US Marines. Iraqi women and children were swiped by Syrians and Jordanians to serve as *comfort* women. My marine friend was sickened by the tables with blood and chains on them from the rapes. How sick and twisted do you have to be to rape a GRANDMOTHER or a 12 year old girl!?!

There is more electricity and basic utilities being offered and used in post war Iraq then there ever where while Saddam's regime was in power.

NO more rape rooms, no more political prisoners being feed to wood chippers.

There is peace in 70 percent of the provinces in Iraq. Some how we only hear about the bad areas. That's like judging the U.S. of A by the crime statistics of Washington DC!!! Slightly skewed people.

I've read the in depth studies and reports of and about Saddam and other miscreants of the Middle-East. If you think going to war in Iraq was a mistake then please give me a one way ticket to your utopian world. I'd like to live in your fantasy place.

Watch a beheading video and tell me if we aren't in a fight for survival of our Country. (a medical note. .. beheading by pocket knife is the most brutal and painful way to go. You are aware and conscious through most of it.)

Stop insulting the people trying to defend you and your countrymen. Cast your harsh gaze at the warmongers of middle-eastern descent.
--
edit by cary: great post, just removing the extra white space at the bottom



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2005 04:57PM by Cary.

"Saddam was going to use Chemical weapons on the US population as soon as possible. Items such as hairspray cans and shaving cream cans were going to be used to disperse chemical agents. Easy to smuggle into US with boring luggage."

Oh holy shit was he really?? Sounds like a plot from a rejected James Bond movie.

If this little fear-mongering tale is true, why haven't we heard about it?

very good point kklare. bush's media would have exploited the hell out of this one. My guess is that it's a wive's tale told in the midst of battle to motivate those honest soldiers over there doing bush's killing.

Yeah, really. Not a James Bond plot, an Austin Powers plot.

Did he say whether Saddam was going to demand 1 million dollars to not act out this plan?


Really, no question that Saddam Hussein was a harsh, brutal, totalitarian ruler. He was a dirtbag. He was responsible for hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of deaths.

But how does that affect ME or any American not involved in the middle east oil trade? If purely on a moral basis, then what the hell, we need to be in Sudan, we need to be in palestine/isreal, we need to be in a dozen other african nations. We ain't the world police. I know some think we are, some fantasize about it, but we aren't. Our constitution, if we ever get back to respecting it and observing it as a binding document defining our governance, pretty much does not allow this sort of "foreing affairs". Our "union" was not formed to spread democracy, merely to preserve it for ourselves, and lead by example, not force. If other nations want to follow suit, that's great, and we should help with training beaurocrats and showing how to set up government agencies, etc. But going off to foreign lands to fix their problems by force is imperialism no matter how you dress it up and make it look pretty.

Iraq threatened Saudi Arabia, Isreal and most of the rest of its neighbors. It didn't threaten Europe. It didn't threaten the US. It only threatened it's neighbors. Most of which are not exactly friendly to US interests. That's why we convinced and then paid for Saddam to attack Iran, after all. It's the threat to SA and IS that ultimately was the largest motivator towards this war. Both nations have our political elite by the balls. One through political and intelligence infiltration of our society, and the other through economic extortion (oil). I mean, I've had to sit in backed up traffic on Chain Bridge road while Prince Bandar's security detail stops traffic, and has red and blue lights on their escort vehicles, and are carrying automatic rifles. Certain Foreign nationals being allowed to assume police powers in our country? Just over the border from the nation's capital? Talk about a powerful non-citizen. Or should I say "super citizen"? If he can arbitrarily disrupt normal citizens' lives like that, I wonder how much influence he can have in our foreign affairs. I mean, I have several diplomats from less influential countries in my neighborhood (germany, maybe, and some asian ambassadors) and none of them have anything more than a driver and a sedan. No motorcade with presumed police powers, or assualt-rifle carrying security. Only the president even marginally has a legitimate authority for such extraordinary rights. So is Prince Bandar equal to our president? Seems like it.

Not that I'm necessarily against foreign influence in an open society. Maybe that's just a part of democracy. But when the two that have the most influence have opposing, mutually exclusive goals, one must wonder how that plays out on the future of our country. I mean, they're both trying to force the other one out of existence, and they've chosen our country as the venue or proxy for this fight.

One thing's for sure -- anything that we do in the Middle East ultimately serves the interests of those two countries, overriding any of our interests. But as long as we can still vote, there's always going to be a need to make the simple-minded voters believe that their very lives are at stake, that someone wants to kill THEM specifically, that mean brown people want to kill the nice white people, you know "rape their mothers, kill their babies, rape their babies and kill their mothers." Sorry, it's just how it works. That's all part of the "Problem, Reaction, Solution" paradigm.

Phillesh hits many good points. I hate to get all historical here, but go back to Washington's farewell address. You know, the one that says it's our policy to NOT get involved with something we have nothing to do with? And you can argue all day long that Saddam wants your and my blood, but the simple fact is that there was never an act of aggression towards the United States, its civilians or soldiers, until we traveled our forces around the world to engage them.

So now we sit back and wait. Good news, bad news, embarrassing and hurtful news (how many people will die because of the Saddam-in-his-undies photos?) and see how history will interpret an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation.

Going into this mess has cost our hurting economy billions so far with no end in sight. Our foriegn relations are withered and when we do need cooperation in the future for something important, we might not get it.

Lastly and most importantly is the issue of Islamic fundamentalism. I have not a shadow of a doubt that in the muslim world there is greater hatred for the U.S. than there was three years ago. Every person in Iraq that has lost something from this (home, relative, a limb) is going to direct their angst in one direction: Bush and the country that reelected him. We have directed our resources that should be used in tracking down the real enemy and sent them to a land where they are sitting targets for insurgents. Red Ronin, ask your buddy if he enjoyed that while he was there.

It's absolutely amazing what people will believe. So read up on all your Saddam-era horror stories and how we saved the day; it's probably the only way Americans can possibly feel justified in having done this. That and maybe if they're dumb enough to buy into the Saddam-Al Quaida connection. I'll save my beef with the "bad intelligence" excuse for another post, it's too nice of a day outside.

Well, kklare, I hope you can take some comfort in my pursuit of a Saddam statue head from ebay or the like.

It wouldn't have been possible without the all-out assault on the forces of evil, the ultimate oppressor, he who will curtail rights, destroy his enemies and their families and friends, reduce the economy to rubble for personal gain, make use of a puppet assembly to make his whims law, and generally disrupt the flow of the world.

wait I forgot if I was talking about Saddam or Bush help me out here

I forgot to add I would still totally bang GW's daughters, that Jenna has been looking pretty fine since she slimmed down.

and so has the other one, the one who's name I won't say because it makes me think of the old lady with the same name..yuck

so GW did see fit to get one thing right even if they do love to drink, party, and generally engage in all the debauchery gw would like us to forget he engaged in in his day. I hear the bush twins hang in some set of sophisticate bars in Georgetown on the weekends. I thought it may be cool to go watch but then I remembered that the secret service likes to hang with her and I don't need the hassle.

You have to admit GW does invite speculation about his past affairs when he engages in speculation about the world's past affairs.

These are some well thought out posts. Not that it matters what I say, but you guys kick ass with these posts!

Yeah I really had think about how hard I would take it to the Bush twins


oh you're talking about the political stuff

The war infact helped our economy you idiots........Post 9-11 our economy was shit......... plus, the president doesn't control the monetary policy (federal reserve) and only has a small hand in controlling the fiscal policy (congress approves the budget) . oh and PS: You idiots not spending money is why our economy is shitty.......... "I'm not giving money to big corporatoins" even though big corporations as a rule of thumb are great and the whole entire reason why our country is economically better than all others in the world.

The Economist, go back to school and change your name please. You are an embarrassment to Fairfax County as Bush is to this country.

hmm kklare you need to roll over here and get wasted if this is how you are going to spend the night lol

I'm about to retract my complements

Where does Jenna hang out? I would love to nail her and I love challenges. Plus, I've dated plenty of girls with asshat fathers, so that wouldn't really bother me.

It's called Smith Point I think, the main place, don't the names of the other spots.

Sweet, thanks.

I hope they have dollar draft night. Can I wear flip flops and wifebeaters?

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The war infact helped our economy you
> idiots........Post 9-11 our economy was
> shit......... plus, the president doesn't control
> the monetary policy (federal reserve) and only has
> a small hand in controlling the fiscal policy
> (congress approves the budget) . oh and PS: You
> idiots not spending money is why our economy is
> shitty.......... "I'm not giving money to big
> corporatoins" even though big corporations as a
> rule of thumb are great and the whole entire
> reason why our country is economically better than
> all others in the world.

While you're right that going to war has created some economic stimulus, most of that has been focused on a privileged few. Like Carlyle group, which the entire bush, baker and rove families are shareholders of. Defense contractors. Shipping and transport companies. etc. Yes, it helps the economy, but I'm pretty sure I would be bitter if my father or brother or son, (or myself) had to get killed for profit and a little boost to the economy. It would be some solace if it were for national security (and I don't mean "save my butt while I'm in power", I mean true threats to the nation.)

And you can't say that corporations are all good or all bad, either. Some are better than others. Some are worse than others. Enron would be a good example of a bad company. I'm having trouble finding an example of a "good" company, because they are certainly few and far-between. But buying their products is sometimes your only choice if you choose to take part in this society regardless of how blindly misquided most of the participants in this society are.

Our country is or was in great economic shape because of the rule of law, respect for said law, and drive and ambition in enough people to keep the engine revving and going faster and faster. We've abandoned all that, so that the people that sought power for profit can cash out. We are not better economically than all other countries in the world. Australia is doing pretty good. Probably a lot better than us. Australian short term gov bonds are at 6.45% compared to the US's at 4.21%. China, while still emerging and overall pretty crappy economically, has had 9 - 12% GDP growth, compared to our 2 - 4%, for the past 10 or 12 years. It all depends on what indicators you look at, and what not.

(btw, I'm "quoting" financial data (from memory, loosely), from the back page of the Economist.)

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The war infact helped our economy you
> idiots........Post 9-11 our economy was
> shit.

No, it was already shit because 9-11 was the second of the 1-2 punch after the dot com bust.

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Economist Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The war infact helped our economy you
> > idiots........Post 9-11 our economy was
> > shit.
>
> No, it was already shit because 9-11 was the
> second of the 1-2 punch after the dot com bust.


Not to mention that by 9-11, Greenspan had gone through a series of some 5 or more rate reductions. And he wasn't even sure what that would mean, but never waited the full 18+ months after each reduction to see if the indicators went in the right, intended direction. Instead, he kept dropping rates every quarter or every 6 months.

Sure, I profited by increasing home sales prices, but the rest of the economy flatlined. I don't think the "dot com bust" necessarily had much to do with it, and could possibly have been an affect or consequence, to boot. Or perhaps the "bust" was purely a natural reaction to an overheated venture-capital and investment market that was spiraling too fast upwards. ?? Hard to say, if Greenspan doesn't understand it, who can?

Besides, once you leave the DC area, our economy is still not all that hot anyway. It's booming here, no doubt, but I've lived here for 25 years, and during EVERY "recession", this place witnessed double-digit growth, forests of skyscraper cranes, and an abundance of startups and jobs demand. (I guess being the leach on the government makes this place recession proof)

Yeah and I had a better paying, better conditions, and higher hours job last summer because of the increased government defense spending. I was getting paid $10 an hour, as opposed to the 7.60 I was getting paid before then, or the 8.20 I make now. I worked full time last summer, before and after I only work 30-35 hours a week. So I mean, given ceteris peribus, I was more likely to spend... when MPS goes up, the economy gets better

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah and I had a better paying, better conditions,
> and higher hours job last summer because of the
> increased government defense spending. I was
> getting paid $10 an hour, as opposed to the 7.60 I
> was getting paid before then, or the 8.20 I make
> now. I worked full time last summer, before and
> after I only work 30-35 hours a week. So I mean,
> given ceteris peribus, I was more likely to
> spend... when MPS goes up, the economy gets better


Dude, I don't know what MPS is. But, shit, unless you're like 19 years old, you can be doing much much better than $10 an hour.

Find out where you can get Oracle DBA certified (they start, START ENTRY LEVEL at up to $90,000 a year!). OR learn PHP and SQL. Learn linux. Whatever. I have no college degree, and I make probably 40 or 45 an hour. I don't know the exact figure, I get paid a salary, but it's above the area's "median" income. And even though I get paid for "40 hours a week", I haven't worked more than 6 or 7 hours a day, on average, for the past 10 years. Sure, sometimes I'll put in a 10 or 12 hour day approaching a deadline, but I usually go to work between 9:30 - 10:30 and leave by 5:00 at the latest. Lately I've been leaving just after the CIO of my company, which ranges between 2:30 and 3:45. Nobody knows how long it really takes to write scripts and set up server software. But what it can do is amazing to them, so they assume it's complex and involved.

You really don't have to be stuck working retail. CEO's give me respect because I can keep their company in the 21st century, they don't understand it, and I can do it. It's magic to them, they are mesmerized by the simple abilities I have. It's amazing. Really. And it's not rocket science. It's easier than learning a second language, honestly. It's "common sense".

Really -- figure out how you can get into this scam!

I used to believe software development should be easy enough for anyone to do, but you really have to have a brain that's built for that kind of thing. I'm not talking smarts... I'm talking about the ability to keep track if three or four loose ends in your head, and bringing them all together in a sitting. So yeah, it's easy for those who are predisposed to that kind of thing.

Plus people may just be intimidated by it. I had a pipe crack do to a freeze last winter and when I discovered it I said "oh fuck this is going to cost a furtune." But a guy I work with who does that kind of thing on the side came over and showed me what to do and it was pathetically easy. So once you get past the intimidation a lot of times it's okay and even easy.

That's great that you get paid good money for doing such an easy job. I'm happy for you, your company, and the money you guys spend. It helps our economy (real dollars)

As for the MPS, I was wrong and I am sorry. It was late. I should have said MPC, which is the Marginal Propensity to Consume. It's basic macro-economic theory.

The ironic thing about this conversation is that I am infact 19 years old (well, almost 20), and I know more about REAL world mechanics and how it relates to the citizen and the country as a whole than you do. I understand how people make decisions with their money. If you make as much as you say you do, then I'm looking to be a millionaire one day.

On a side note, thanks for the idea, but I feel that people should be payed on a basis of knowledge, experience, and hard work. I would feel guilty taking a job such as yours without some form of post secondary education because I didn't spend much time (hell it's just a second language right?), or effort earning that type of pay.

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> On a side note, thanks for the idea, but I feel
> that people should be payed on a basis of
> knowledge, experience, and hard work. I would feel
> guilty taking a job such as yours without some
> form of post secondary education because I didn't
> spend much time (hell it's just a second language
> right?), or effort earning that type of pay.

You should (of course) know that you don't 'earn' anything, but rather are given what someone thinks that you are worth. There is no reason to feel guilty about it.

Do you by chance know who Tom Rustici is?

ben Wrote:

>
> You should (of course) know that you don't 'earn'
> anything, but rather are given what someone thinks
> that you are worth. There is no reason to feel
> guilty about it.
>
> Do you by chance know who Tom Rustici is?
>
> adytum.net
> don,t dream

Hate to be blunt but you should know that you don't 'eat' anything, but rather you place food in your mouth, chew it, and swallow.

I did not know who Tom Rustici is until you mentioned the name and a quick google search shows him as a George Mason Economics Professor. I'm guessing he's one of the nobel prize winners and an advocate of liberalism, globalization, and free market structures world wide.

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hate to be blunt but you should know that you
> don't 'eat' anything, but rather you place food in
> your mouth, chew it, and swallow.

Sorry, that doesn't have any relevance to what I wrote.

Go back and re-read the post. If someone is willing to hire you for a job you are able to perform for what they believe is a fair wage, there is no reason to refuse acceptance.

Economist,

"The ironic thing about this conversation is that I am infact 19 years old (well, almost 20), and I know more about REAL world mechanics and how it relates to the citizen and the country as a whole than you do. I understand how people make decisions with their money."

Interesting that those of us who are a bit older than you and further removed from the textbook way of thinking have come to realize that "real life" involves much more than being able to theorize about the way things should be. In the real world there are an extreme few folks who make a real living based on understand the theories of personal, US and world economics. There are far more folks making a real living by grinding out code, flying airplanes, or building actual products. Textbook theory only goes so far.

Bottom line? who cares if you can quote the theories of others? Do you have any original positive thoughts?

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's great that you get paid good money for
> doing such an easy job. I'm happy for you, your
> company, and the money you guys spend. It helps
> our economy (real dollars)
>
> As for the MPS, I was wrong and I am sorry. It was
> late. I should have said MPC, which is the
> Marginal Propensity to Consume. It's basic
> macro-economic theory.
>
> The ironic thing about this conversation is that I
> am infact 19 years old (well, almost 20), and I
> know more about REAL world mechanics and how it
> relates to the citizen and the country as a whole
> than you do. I understand how people make
> decisions with their money. If you make as much as
> you say you do, then I'm looking to be a
> millionaire one day.
>
> On a side note, thanks for the idea, but I feel
> that people should be payed on a basis of
> knowledge, experience, and hard work. I would feel
> guilty taking a job such as yours without some
> form of post secondary education because I didn't
> spend much time (hell it's just a second language
> right?), or effort earning that type of pay.


I doubt that you know more than I do about the real world. I could be wrong, but I just find that hard to believe. I don't have a PhD in macroeconomics, but my father does. I used to help him grade papers when he taught econ classes at Mason, when I was 10 or 11. Sure, Mason was just becoming independent from UVA at the time, so it was nothing like it is now, but he had to show me what formulas were correct, which answers were wrong, and how to rate essay answers. Plus I have 15 more years of real world experience, I've worked in enough industries to have a broader understanding, and well, I'm a pretty intelligent smart ass ;) Again, I may be wrong. I don't know you. I've met some pretty smart "teenagers" (or early twenty-somethings, whatever... I don't mean that derogatorily)

And I already am a millionaire. At least on paper. A sizable portion of it would get eaten up by the various tax-weilding powers out there if I ever cashed it all in, but at least it looks good on paper. It's hard to buy a yacht "on paper", tho. But I'm also not done saving and investing, either. I should be set and retired by 45, my goal is 10 million. That should be easy enough. I don't know why more people can't figure that out ;)

If you became certified as an Oracle DBA, You would deserve it, you would have earned it. You don't NEED a secondary education unless you're an idiot or want to become a doctor, surgeon, physicist, maybe lawyer. I'm not saying if you want to take the time and spend the money that it's all a bad idea, it's just that you don't NEED to. In fact, in some instances, it could actually HURT you. For example, going to too good of a school and doing poorly. Or doing really well at a bad but expensive school. In fact, more than one time I beat out someone with a BS CS from a "decent" state school because the hiring person was impressed that I had advanced farther than the degreed person, without a degree. Early on, like my second or third job, the guy that hired me said that he actually viewed the other applicant's transcripts because he had no experience and they were "decent", and that since I didn't have any transcripts, all he could go by was that I held a similar job for 2 1/2 years. Granted, I've run into "no degree, no job" before, but that's why you don't just apply to one job when searching for a job, you move on to one where they aren't caught up in that myth that the only way to qualify someone is by their degree. Most people just "default" into going to college, without really considering whether they actually NEED to. And I've found, in positions where I am hiring people, that often, more unqualified people are walking around with degrees, than qualified. And that anyone with experience but not degree generally outshines the degreed people. Just my observation. And I'm not biased the other way, either, I'd hire a person with a degree if he could show he knew how to do the job, just like I would someone without one. I'm not like some people, afraid to hire someone who will advance beyond them, because generally, I look to advance by moving to another company, hopscotch career advancement.


Then you compare lifetime salary, minus education costs, and an intelligent person who skipped college and started succeeding is a good quarter to half a million ahead, in the end. (granted, succeeding is necessary, if you fail, then maybe going to school is a GREAT idea)

Not to mention, once you get your degree, you still have to become a candidate and beat out everyone else to get your first job. And then as time goes by, as you advance, your experience will mean more than your degree anyway. When you're at "mid-to-senior level" like me, often managers don't even look at your education. I was in this job for two months before my boss asked me where I went to school. And when I told him I didn't graduate, he laughed and said "wow, you'd never know" -- I responded, "how would you? Do you expect non-college grads to speak funny or something." I were a koledge stewdint wons.


Like anything else in this world, Higher Education is an industry. It has to see growth to succeed in the long run, so they create and perpetuate the myth that the only way to succeed in life is by going to one of their overly-costly institutions. There's always SOME truth to these market-driven myths, but never as much truth as the hype makes it seem.

You'll go farther in life by not following the "conventional wisdom", because conventional wisdom is usually pretty unwise overall, it's more conventional than wisdom. It's sort of like how common sense isn't very common, you know? It's fine for dumb people, those that don't have a lot of ambition or general understanding of the world, they benefit by following the pack. But often people get "sacrificed" for the good of the pack. It's best to follow your own wisdom, assuming you have one, and do your best with what you have. It's the difference between being a worker-bee and an "independent operator".

put it this way, given certeris peribus, a person w/ a BS in a certain field will go further, faster, and get paid more for equal work compared to one w/ a high school diploma.

You make some good points but aren't realizing the whole entire picture; MOST people if not almost all (90 %) don't have the kind of intelligence and know how, work ethic, and/or friends to become millionaires. They just don't. Cause if they did, then everyone would be doing what you did or something like it.

Plus, there are many places that start people w/ degrees higher than some people can work through in years, it really all depends on the employer itself.

Regarding the cost of schooling, my life to date expenses on PS education are around 3500 dollars. Plus my time, and the oppurtunity cost associated with that (Honestly wouldn't have been doing anything else, I already work full time).

Paperpusher, don't be mad because you were proved wrong. Don't think I'm an ass but I kinda have to say this -So what if I simply relayed information from a textbook, I knew it and you didn't! Ha.

In conclusion, this has been a fun discussion but I see it going nowhere..Any of you millionaires need any help? I can provide business, personal, and educational references, writing samples, etc. If you'd like to see a copy of my resume or possibly set up an interview via phone or meeting, please leave an email address or PM it to me (I'm registering soon). Thanks

Economist, nothing has been proven and you don't impress me enough to warrant focusing my energy towards anger. Any parrot can repeat what he hears.

I'm also a college student but don't feel the need to repeat the readings of my textbooks - after all, they were written by folks certainly no more wise, smart or intelligent than PhilLesh and actually contain far less common sense than he.

lol hold on, there's a big difference between intellectual ability and knowledge. Without education, experience, etc, Albert Einstein would have been another person.

To say that he is more intelligent is one thing, but then to say that he's more knowledgeable about a topic is another.

To think that someone could master a subject that he hasn't studied is preposterous.

I'll refrain from posting about common sense because it's clear to me that this isn't going anywhere at all.

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> put it this way, given certeris peribus, a person
> w/ a BS in a certain field will go further,
> faster, and get paid more for equal work compared
> to one w/ a high school diploma.
>

Faster up to a point. Like, once you're comparing 5 year's experience, it begins to make NO difference. After 5 years experience, there is NO difference. Anyone that has succeeded for 5 years is qualified. And then it all falls to your actions, what you've accomplished, the friends you've made, what you bring to the company. The Bottom Line is more important than a chest full of degrees. And don't forget, when you start a job, the guy you graduated high school with (assuming he can get the job) has 4 years experience on you, and you're just starting out. Who's better off? Unless your education, not the degree, but what you learned, can push you beyond the person who's already been doing the job for 4 years, then your education only got you in the door and the other guy is already lapping you career-wise.



Granted, that's not true for people with MIT, or Yale or Harvard degrees, they always get to enjoy an unfair advantage. They can always say "but I have an MIT degree, and he doesn't" and the higher-ups cannot argue against that, even if the MIT grad never showed up to work, or missed a bunch of deadlines, or didn't produce the same amount of business. But that's the extreme.


> You make some good points but aren't realizing the
> whole entire picture; MOST people if not almost
> all (90 %) don't have the kind of intelligence and
> know how, work ethic, and/or friends to become
> millionaires. They just don't. Cause if they did,
> then everyone would be doing what you did or
> something like it.


If you graduated from a fairfax county school, you have no excuse. This school system swaps space with Orange County CA as the first or second ranked system in the nation. If you paid attention, and made it through, you can do ANYTHING. You're not an idiot. Regardless of your grades. But unfortunately most people don't think beyond the pre-programmed consensus thought process. They buy into the whole myth, they believe you needed to achieve 3.95 or greater to amount to anything. Sure, that's how they keep the system ranking above the rest of the country, but it's just a myth. If you keep up, you're pretty smart. In fact, the ones that do the best in HS are the most blind and narrow minded. They're the ones that end up failing after they don't get into the "big 5" schools, and start doubting themselves and their opportunities.

>
> Plus, there are many places that start people w/
> degrees higher than some people can work through
> in years, it really all depends on the employer
> itself.
>

Sure, some companies have policies that you need to graduate ivy league. Or that your GPA had to be 3.98 or better. Or that you had to do whatever extra-curricular activity, or whatever. But we're talking about 5 or 6 companies. Bearing point, maybe. Maybe a few others. But most companies just want to make money, they want productive and quality employees, and are able to discriminate that by TALKING to their candidates. And even if a company were to higher "degreed candidate A" at 35k, and me, "undegreed candidate B" at $32k, I'm sure that I could be at 45, when candidate A is at 43k, in a year, because I was able to bring more to the company than A could. It's all about performance, PERFORMANCE, when you actually get into the work force.


> Regarding the cost of schooling, my life to date
> expenses on PS education are around 3500 dollars.
> Plus my time, and the oppurtunity cost associated
> with that (Honestly wouldn't have been doing
> anything else, I already work full time).
>
> Paperpusher, don't be mad because you were proved
> wrong. Don't think I'm an ass but I kinda have to
> say this -So what if I simply relayed information
> from a textbook, I knew it and you didn't! Ha.

Maybe so. But I can come up with all kinds of trivia that you don't know. That doesn't make me any better than you.


>
> In conclusion, this has been a fun discussion but
> I see it going nowhere..Any of you millionaires
> need any help? I can provide business, personal,
> and educational references, writing samples, etc.
> If you'd like to see a copy of my resume or
> possibly set up an interview via phone or meeting,
> please leave an email address or PM it to me (I'm
> registering soon). Thanks


I think the millionaires that read this board already know who to have manage their money, or like me, manage it themselves.

Why would I need help when I've been able to party for the last 17 years and still accumulate $3.5m in assets?


But don't let me discourage you. I have a couple friends that manage wealth, and they do much better than I do. But they're all stressed out and can't deal with life in general because of the pressure. I like being in control of my life, and not worried about the next market turn. Not to mention, they make 3x what I make each year, but have less than a third of my "net worth".

That relates to ambition -- how much pressure and stress are you willing to endure for how much benefit, and can you manage it. You have to decide.

PaperPusher,

>"Gravis, you're not from the US, are you? You use terms that the British and Canadians use."

Actually, I've lived in Fairfax all my life. I dont have any relatives from out of the country for like 7 or more generations back. What terms did I use? Perhaps I have picked up some stuff from the various news sources I read. I also like kittens.

---

> "I'm about to retract my complements"

what, we can't have fun? this is for people... not just the "debate crew"

---

The Economist,

> "The war infact helped our economy you idiots..."

Please note that you are the only fool to bring up the economy. That is not what this is about. Stop being a capitalistic pig who worships money and money alone.

---

> "I'm not giving money to big corporatoins" even though big corporations as a rule of thumb are great and the whole entire reason why our country is economically better than all others in the world.

Are you from the RIAA?


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I dunno about you guys... but I'm staying for the torture. :)


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis, I'm here for the entertainment which almost always turns to torture when listening to some of the self absorbed nins on here. Problem is, I love to coax it along and pissing folks off.

The Economist is 19? So that's what, 2 more years until he realizes that Ayn Rand's writings are complete horseshit? Please, The Economist, reciting shit you learned in class last semester, and playing the "I know more than you" card, only serves to reinforce that all college students are assholes.

I was an asshole in college too, so I understand. But still, you're like a caricature of an angry young republican backlash boy.

Gravis, not that I completely agree with you, but mad kudos for holding your ground. Those simple minded super patriot fucktards sometimes forget that there is more to this war than "they hate us because of our freedom".

Torture? I thought this was the Neo-Keynesian Symposium Center.

I have the impression that few people make careers out of economic consulting. A teacher of mine, Kenneth Elzinga, does. He'd miss class all of the sudden because he was helping Wal-Mart or Microsoft. Sure, he makes copious amounts of money; however, he seems to be a rare breed. He also wrote this book (under a pseudonym) that we were forced to read. It's a murder mystery with economic clues.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345331583/qid=1116865240/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4516983-9081542?v=glance&s=books&n=507846


Economist -
And as long as we're making blanket statements about MPC....it makes us more susceptible to inflation, e pluribus unum, sic semper tyrannis, and maybe even ceteris paribus (note the correct spelling).

erik,
Thanks for the Kudos. Damn they taste good. Send more... I love 'em. \o/


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

erik Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please, The Economist,
> reciting shit you learned in class last semester,
> and playing the "I know more than you" card

Heh, I remember that age. Hearing things in classes that make total sense so you start acting like you know more than the other schmucks. Then you get out and have to think for yourself a little and points of view begin to change a little. And I have a Master's degree so no followup posts saying "sounds like someone bitter about not going to college."

But in the early 90's when I was in college yeah, most of the students were fully transformed into liberal democrats about two weeks into their freshman year. Then they graduated and get mugged or something and turn republican.

pgens, I agree. Ideologies of textbooks are intended to enlighten but real life tends to smudge the ideologies.

Roffle I guess you guys want another round of ownage.........

I don't have the time now, but I will later. So in the meanwhile, read up on the United States Government's Pay Schedules, etc. Then try to tell me that after 5 years you don't need a degree......And no I'm not talking GS-7 is bachelor or equivalent. I'm talking career paths............

And read the first few chapters of "In Defense of Global Capitalism"- Johann Norberg. Excellent read.

Talking about MPC and inflation- you are dumb and wrong. You are referring to what is called Demand-pull inflation and actually caused by a country's supply being too short, demand being too high, and the result is the real cause which is the central banking system over issuing money..........thus inflating the real worth.

Actually don't bother reading up on the GS schedule, it's going away.

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So in
> the meanwhile, read up on the United States
> Government's Pay Schedules, etc. Then try to tell
> me that after 5 years you don't need a
> degree......And no I'm not talking GS-7 is
> bachelor or equivalent. I'm talking career
> paths.

I was a Fed many years ago... if you graduate and start as a GS-7 as a program analyst or something and are on a career ladder, you could theoretically by a GS-14 in five years. A GS-14 Step One (under DC locality rates) makes over $88,000, which isn't bad wherever you live. Most of the country doesn't retire at 88,000 salary so don't diss federal employment, it can be a perfectly fine career path.

just go to one of those career fairs for the oppression field and pass out some resumes

I didn't know the GS sched was a total goner fer sher, I thought DHS was going to pilot that concept?

I don't keep up too much with it since my stint at NIH so fill in the gaps

They're changing the system, especially under DHS. They break it down by general function (technical, administrative, functional, etc.)

Also raises are going to be based more on performance than before. It used to be impossible to be fired or not get a raise if you were a govie. You'd have to fuck up real bad.

Not really sure how it's going to work. And it probably won't.

The Economist,
What the fuck is "Roffle?"


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

It's the verbal pronunciation of "rofl".

Look forward 5 years, where do you see yourself? Imagine that you perform well, know your shit, and continuously get promoted through your employer. And one day, they ask you to write a detailed persuasive brief explaining your job, say maybe for a job description, or for a potential investor, in laymans speak. You write it, and it just makes your company look god awful because it was poorly organized and argumentation was flawed. Or they had asked you to present it extemperaneously. You got to the podium, and made yourself look like a total ass. How would you feel? Do you think you'd get promoted? What if the new job required occasional speeches or reports?

Right there are two skills taught in college but not in FCPS. College Composition, and Public Speaking. And don't try to say "yeah well I don't need it" in my position because even if you don't, many more do need it. If you do infact say "yeah well I don't need it" you are again suffering from the fallacy of composition. "What is true for one is not neccessarily true about the whole".


I wasn't disrespecting the Federal Government, I was simply saying go look at what's required for the career paths. Some career paths stop at GS-12, another stops at GS-8 if my memory serves me correct. There's one that goes to GS-16, and it's no surprise that with a HS diploma you start there at GS-2. I personally know a couple people who are GS-16 and EVERYONE of their co-workers (equals, not secretarys) has at least a Bachelors if not a Masters degree.

So now tell me that a college education is useless in the real world.

ps : i'm really not an ass in real life and i'm sorry if I come off as one and also sorry if I mispelt anything

and yeah as for help I mean working for you.....not managing your money



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2005 01:51AM by The Economist.

1) I've had a few drinks.

2) This means I'm more willing to speak my mind.

3) I believe you are not an asshole. However, high MPC puts a country in greater danger of both inflation and deflation. Consider a major expenditure by the gov't out of nowhere. Low MPS leads to a greater multiplier effect. Gov't gives 10 million to Boeing and suddenly everyone wants to spend 100 million (if MPC is .90). So yes, it is demand-pull. External factor throws demand out and it "pulls" the price up.

4) All I know about college right now is that I really like our bars. Feels historic. Old buildings. Sweet.

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wasn't disrespecting the Federal Government, I
> was simply saying go look at what's required for
> the career paths. Some career paths stop at GS-12,
> another stops at GS-8 if my memory serves me
> correct. There's one that goes to GS-16, and it's
> no surprise that with a HS diploma you start there
> at GS-2. I personally know a couple people who are
> GS-16 and EVERYONE of their co-workers (equals,
> not secretarys) has at least a Bachelors if not a
> Masters degree.
>
> So now tell me that a college education is useless
> in the real world.

You can't know anyone who is a GS-16... there is no such thing as a GS-16 as GS-15 is the top non-SES (Senior Executive Service) paygrade. But yes, I saw rare cases where someone without a college degree made it to a GS-11 but for the most part you need a college education to get up there.

I'm a GS-69

Yeah GS-15. Sorry. In that rare case that mateo is referring to, at step 1 here in the DC area..that person is making 52k. At step one GS-15 pay is 103k. That's almost twice the amount.

http://www.opm.gov/oca/05tables/pdf/DCB.pdf

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's the verbal pronunciation of "rofl".
>
> Look forward 5 years, where do you see yourself?
> Imagine that you perform well, know your shit, and
> continuously get promoted through your employer.
> And one day, they ask you to write a detailed
> persuasive brief explaining your job, say maybe
> for a job description, or for a potential
> investor, in laymans speak. You write it, and it
> just makes your company look god awful because it
> was poorly organized and argumentation was flawed.
> Or they had asked you to present it
> extemperaneously. You got to the podium, and made
> yourself look like a total ass. How would you
> feel? Do you think you'd get promoted? What if the
> new job required occasional speeches or reports?
>
> Right there are two skills taught in college but
> not in FCPS. College Composition, and Public
> Speaking. And don't try to say "yeah well I don't
> need it" in my position because even if you don't,
> many more do need it. If you do infact say "yeah
> well I don't need it" you are again suffering from
> the fallacy of composition. "What is true for one
> is not neccessarily true about the whole".
>
>
> I wasn't disrespecting the Federal Government, I
> was simply saying go look at what's required for
> the career paths. Some career paths stop at GS-12,
> another stops at GS-8 if my memory serves me
> correct. There's one that goes to GS-16, and it's
> no surprise that with a HS diploma you start there
> at GS-2. I personally know a couple people who are
> GS-16 and EVERYONE of their co-workers (equals,
> not secretarys) has at least a Bachelors if not a
> Masters degree.
>
> So now tell me that a college education is useless
> in the real world.


You're assuming that someone who didn't go to college is incapable of those tasks. I've written job descriptions for myself and for positions I've created to hire people into. I've given speeches, led symposiums, all that stuff. You don't have to go to college to be well spoken and well written. Going to college doesn't gaurantee that you will be well spoken or well written, either.

I almost sold my first company, that I and a partner co-founded, in 1998, to a record label/internet information service in San Francisco for 2 million. They flew me to New York and out to San Fran several times to meet with all the O's in the company, meet their bankers, negotate the sale terms and length of service contracts for the principles of my company, etc. We had a letter of intent and were about to begin due diligence. The only thing that prevented the sale was the 2nd round investor's not liking the terms of the 3rd round investors. So Vulcan ventures nixed the additional funding, and there was no money to purchase my start up company. Do you think maybe I had to meet with boards, CEOs and what-not? Did I have to write a business plan? My god, with only two half-assed years of college, I must have not been competent enough! And yet... I was.

Keep telling yourself that only college students are smart. Hang on to that misconception as long as you can. Don't let the fact that most people go to college, that it's becoming pedestrian ruin your feelings of uniqueness and superiority over the "uneducated masses". Or the fact that I've met college graduates who couldn't write for shit, or even speak clearly enough in general conversation to even be taken seriously.

Honestly, we can't argue that there are artificially created rules within some organizations about not promoting people without degrees, but they are artificial, arbitrary. Plus, they can be overcome with sound reasoning, rational discussion, and persuasive arguments. Except in the government, but then everything's arbitrary and convoluted within the government. I bet even there, if someone wanted you bad enough, they could make an exception to the rule.

Open your mind. Don't close it off this early in your life. Education comes in many forms. You don't have to go to college to master a field, sometimes the mastery is due to an inherent understanding, or ability to grasp concepts without having to go to 12 lectures to get it through your head. Sometimes DOING something garners a much better understanding than READING ABOUT IT and HEARING SOMEONE ELSE LECTURE ABOUT IT.

Falacy of Composition - what is true about one (you for example), is not true about the whole.

I applaud you for your hard work and ability to suceed in life using non conventional methods.

However, most people are not blessed with the skills that you have, so they have to go to school(usually college) and learn them.

PS: You still haven't answered the question about regular people needing Eng111 and SPD-105, once again I'm wondering how else someone would learn those skills on their own in such an efficient manner.

Saddam did threaten the US.
He was threatening to demand euros for all his oil.
As a major producer of oil it would have been devastating to the US economy and our fiat currency.
Can you imagine a world where oil is priced in euros rather than the almighty dollar?
George Bush couldn't so he attacked.
Ever wonder why Blair is so supportive?
Bingo, UK dosen't want to go to the euro.

pepeee,

good to see that idle threats are a good enough reason to go in and bomb. If I was selling something on Ebay and wanted only pesos, then I'd accept only pesos. Your logic is stupid to put it nicely.

PaperPusher,
Sure he demanded euros... why? because his own currency was worth shit and it would make the USA have to pay more due to the economic issues. however, it would have been smarter to ask for USD as it was well known that it would increase in value as the economy recovered. then again, they started hunting him for sport. :)

chech out the iraqi dinar

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/currency-reform.htm


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I still don't see that as a justifcation for war

> He was threatening to demand euros for all his oil.

seriously, can we call that a threat? if a business decision was made that i won't personally benefit from, can i call that a threat, kill the assholes that made the deal, and claim self-defense?

What state are we talking about, kklare?

PaperPusher,
I didn't claim this to be a justification for war but rather that he was not asking for his own currency and that his motives were to screw us. in anycase, i don think this was the reason to invade. besides, it's already been done so get over it.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis,

Obviously the invasion is already underway. I suppose you would also believe it best to nuke the bastards while we're there ... after all, the jerk didn't have any confidence in his own currency so he demanded one he believed in. Can you honestly say that he was trying to screw us? He was accused of something that didn't exist and is in prison for what reason? He was defending his own independent country. What wrong is in that? I'm not defending him for the crimes he did commit against his own people but do not see where the US had any rights to go in and start killing.

Obviously you profit in some way from the war. Perhaps you build the weapons or support the DOD in some way. In any event, what's done is done and may you be drafted away to Iraq and have your nuts blown off so you can't reproduce. We don't need any more folks with your war mongering mentality.

I know a lot of people in the DOD and I can't think of one that is trying to profit from this thing. Not saying there aren't people that are profiting from this (and I believe many are close to Bush), but I think they will be the ones keeping their mouth shut.

A lot of people will believe anything their party, republican or democrat, tells them. Many are still shook up from 9/11 are sold on the "Iraq is associated with terrorists" notion we've been given. Fearmongering works; look at how Nazi Germany was sold on Hitler's absurd sentiments and propaganda. We've been ingrained with idea the that dissent is unpatriotic, and that really upsets me. I hope that over time people will start doing their homework and can clear the fog of misinformation they've been fed. I also hope everything works out over there, cuz people are dying every day and it all feels pretty unnecessary.

PaperPusher,
honestly now, you keep saying i want to go and kill people ("you would also believe it best to nuke the bastards"). here's from a different post: "I do not wish to kill anyone ... I want people to prevent suffering..." Why do you keep thinking I want people to die?

> He was accused of something that didn't exist and is in prison for what reason? He was defending his own independent country. What wrong is in that? I'm not defending him for the crimes he did commit against his own people [...]

They were crimes against humanity. We should not allow anyone commiting crimes against humanity to get away with it. It was a good thing that he was prevented more people from being tortured and killed.

You keep seeing demons where there are none.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis,

The demons are there. Just as you are against poor people having children, you are in favor of continuing a ruthless, warrantless war against a country that doesn't want us there. FYI, the Iraqi government has been ousted yet the killing continues. If the people wanted him out so badly, why do they continue to fight the Americans? He's out already. I know you'll say that it's defiant remnants of the old government but as the remnants grow smaller, the killing continues to intensify.

As for your "we should stop all crimes against humanity", are you aware of the recent government turmoil in Ethiopia? The old government lost the election but that government is rejecting the election and anyone who argues is killed. People are being killed on the streetcorner because the government outlawed gatherings. Police are empowered to shoot at will at anyone they believe to be "gathering" for any reason. Do you see the US coming to the rescue? Hell no! Ethiopia has absolutely no resources to pilliage so the defenseless are left to die.

Your demons are that you see only what you want to see and believe only what you want to believe. Anything outside of your world, you consider to be wrong.

Aren't you old enough to be shipped off to Iraq? I've already done my time.

The Economist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Falacy of Composition - what is true about one
> (you for example), is not true about the whole.
>
> I applaud you for your hard work and ability to
> suceed in life using non conventional methods.
>
> However, most people are not blessed with the
> skills that you have, so they have to go to
> school(usually college) and learn them.
>
> PS: You still haven't answered the question about
> regular people needing Eng111 and SPD-105, once
> again I'm wondering how else someone would learn
> those skills on their own in such an efficient
> manner.


okay, I cheated. My mom has a phD in english, she was a a high school english teacher for 3 years, and wrote proposals for Booz allen and Hamilton for 6 or 7 years. So I learned all that indirectly.

But seriously, you're still selling yourself and everybody else short. College is one way to learn it all, and a conscious person willing to learn can find all this stuff out on their own, just by WANTING TO LEARN.

Basically, any structured education simply acts as a certification that you've learned it. And that doesn't mean that having that certification means you even learned it, it just means you were there, and you might have learned it.

Actions speak louder than diplomas.

PaperPusher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pepeee,
>
> good to see that idle threats are a good enough
> reason to go in and bomb. If I was selling
> something on Ebay and wanted only pesos, then I'd
> accept only pesos. Your logic is stupid to put it
> nicely.

My bombers are enroute to your little banana republic as we speak. How dare you go against the almighty dollar! :)

But seriously, it don't mean a thing what you call your currency. If oil is priced in dollars, europeans convert to the euro. iF it's priced in euros, we convert to dollars. Did you know there are currency calculators all over the internet, most are free?

That doesn't mean anything. No matter what, oil prices will be labeled in dollars until CNOOC buys unocal, then they'll be in Yen.

But we still have those web currency converters, so if the largest buyer is buying in yen, it still only means a mouse click to convert to dollars.

it's always dollars, anyway, for the time being.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

....
> They were crimes against humanity. We should not
> allow anyone commiting crimes against humanity to
> get away with it. It was a good thing that he was
> prevented more people from being tortured and
> killed.
.....

Maybe if we proposed going in there for humanitarian reasons we wouldn't be so despised and the burden would have been shared by other countries in the U.N. Unfortunately our incompetent leaders went a different route, and have left us with zero moral authority.

PaperPusher,

> "... you are against poor people having children ..."

i'm really against people who cannot provide for their children.


> "...you are in favor of continuing a ruthless, warrantless war against a country

that doesn't want us there."
i was never for the begining of the war so much but rather the ending of it. their government is destroied. if we leave, it will be chaos until someone ruthless enough takes power.


> "If the people wanted him out so badly, why do they continue to fight the Americans?"

the bulk of the violence is from groups who wish to seize power of the nation and setup something similar to Ethiopia's current government.


You keep seeing demons where there are none.

> "As for your "we should stop all crimes against humanity", are you aware of the recent government turmoil in Ethiopia?"

i'm quite aware of the savageness that occurs there. it would be nice if we could stop all crimes agains humanity but it doesnt seem to be on anyone's agenda.


> "Do you see the US coming to the rescue? Hell no!"

we provided aid for the people there but what ended up happening was the hoarding of the food to build up their military and when they were strong enough they decided to invade their neighboring countries. however, they are not a threat to us in any way. iraq was invaded under the pretense that there were "WMDs" there(that being the official reason... you cannot prove one way or the other so please dont bother trying).


> "Your demons are that you see only what you want to see and believe only what you want to believe. Anything outside of your world, you consider to be wrong."

this is not correct in the slightest. i consider all possibilities and change any beliefs based on reliable evidence.


> "Aren't you old enough to be shipped off to Iraq?"

yes, i am and if i enlisted, i think there is good chance i could be sent over to iraq. however, i am not a militant person.


You keep seeing demons where there are none.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis,

I'm done. You're hopelessly blinded and I've come to realize that I really don't care about your opinions.

well he has all the right answers and no doubts, so there's no point in fighting perfection.

PaperPusher,

> I'm done. You're hopelessly blinded and I've come to realize that I really don't care about your opinions.

you keep claiming im wrong and evil. prove it.

---

rstidman,

i'm not perfect and i dont have all the answers but if you care to point out where i'm wrong, please do. however, your comments are generally hilarious.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Hey philesh maybe you are forgetting that proposed 'exchange tax' whereby people pay money (albeit it small amount) to convert dollars to yen, yen to euros, euros to dollars, etc. It is suppose to slow globalization/liberalization, and is heavy supported by the "Anti-Capititalist, Anti-Corporate crowd".

Gravis,

Personally I don't care if you go through life with blinders. I have nothing to prove to you. You're entitled to your opinion as well as I'm entitled to mine. Fortunately you're not in charge of who can have children and again fortunately you're not in charge of who/why war is waged. Very likely you are among those who believe continuing/expanding war in Iraq is justified because of London's attacks.

have fun with your responses ... I'm out of the discussion.

Think about what your writing before you type ignoramous.You program video games and like to play GTA 3.I'm realistic as is most of the non-left wing country.You think what happened at "abu" was humanely and morally wrong like most AMERICANS and UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES PERSONELL do. Even in the fantasy world of GTA 3 DO YOU think it's fun or dehumanizing to do some of the things it's possible to do in that video game.(AND YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT). Thinking and doing are only one step apart college boy. I'm not condoning what happened at all but you better think twice before you put the majority of the military in the same category as those two yutz's.Grow up.

who are you talking to and what are you responding to?

Think about what your writing before you type ignoramous.You program video games and like to play GTA 3.I'm realistic as is most of the non-left wing country.You think what happened at "abu" was humanely and morally wrong like most AMERICANS and UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES PERSONELL do. Even in the fantasy world of GTA 3 DO YOU think it's fun or dehumanizing to do some of the things it's possible to do in that video game.(AND YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT). Thinking and doing are only one step apart college boy. I'm not condoning what happened at all but you better think twice before you put the majority of the military in the same category as those two yutz's.Grow up.

scott types twice but to no one in particular.

Is ther ea law in the Virginia books about what constitutes torture?

WAVA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is ther ea law in the Virginia books about what
> constitutes torture?


no.

This guy was a jock in high school and went terrorist, also a local.

Zachary Adam Chesser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zachary_Adam_Chesser

Local Oakton High School Grad Jailed for Terrorism
http://www.belch.com/blog/2010/07/22/local-oakton-high-school-grad-jailed-for-terrorism/
Attachments:

His parents must be so proud right now.