Read This SOB Story. So What do they want? The Govt to pay off their House?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/01/26/distressed-family-swamped-by-an-underwater-home/?hpid=z1

This is in PG Md and here in FX Co too.

They have not made a payment since 2008! And there still there. Pityfull.

What the Hell Have Democrats done to this country?? Self Respect?

Responsibility? Oh Well I'll just sign I'll figure it all out later!

Large European Cars, Expansive windows, Beautiful Grounds, Estate Grown Kona.

It sounds like they tried to live way beyond their means. The story of many Americans.
Op, republicans and democrats are responsible. The mortgage place hasn't been forced not to evict.

They stole those houses, simple as that.

OP here. Agreed Democrats and Republicans did it. Was it not Barney Frank and Democrats that loosened lending rules to allow more low income people to buy houses. So that a 100K house would be available to some one makeing 25 K And making that 100 K house a 150 K house then a 300k house because of the number of people that now could "afford It"

And Bush. Asleep at the switch? And Doing nothing about the sub prime loans. The "bundled packages of bank investments. Let the Good Times Roll! Yet No One Democrats or GOP were bitchen about getting those home equity loans to buy new cars.vacations,home additions and improvement, college for the kids.

And after the fall out Obama wanting to bail em all out for votes?

Understandable that slip and slide loans were out there looking for Suckers.

And suckers bit. And if their loans are "forgiven" to a lower intrest rate say 4.75 % they still can't make the payments. And so there underwater. Hey Hey banks just forgive a couple hundred thou. While a hundred thou today makes the difference for many today to be just be able to get a foot in the door to buy a condo. Screw them and all the other responsible people .. But Bail out the Ones That were Living Large ?

As others who were not living large as myself lived in Apts waiting it out Because we knew it was a overpriced market??

Whats The answer to all this?

I have no answer for the solution.
When everything went belly up, I fixed some fanny Mae homes. You would be surprised at how many homes had bathroom and lighting fixtures removed. Over half of them. Appliances removed. Most were nice newer homes. Its not just section 8 people that destroy after they get booted. Anybody, any color with no credit rating will destroy a place after leaving

Did these folks do this story hoping people would feel sorry for them? They repeatedly made terrible choices that nobody forced them to make and haven't made a payment for years. I'm actually somewhat surprised that people that dumb managed to achieve a combined income over $100k, even if only for a time.

Housing prices here didn't take nearly the hit they took in CA, NV, AZ and FL. To still be underwater around here means that you are not only deficient in some way, but also unlucky.

Maybe they're lucky to live rent-free for years? The only reason they haven't cleared out and filed for bankruptcy is because the bank hasn't foreclosed.

With $257,776 owed on the Germantown house, $969,037 owed on the Fairwood house, $55,000 in personal loans and the student loan debt, the couple who had never owned a credit card before moving to the United States now owe more than $1.3 million.

They currently earn about $100,000 a year.

Methinks perhaps part of the problem is the folks giving out those loans.

What does the Post want us to think about this mess they got them selves in. Forgive the loans?

There are a lot of problems with the writing of this story, beginning with this:

"they said everyone told them that they could buy a $600,000 house."

Not everyone. Qualifying for a sub-prime interest-only loan means that the banks and credit unions told them they could not qualify for a conventional loan.

"Today, they struggle under nearly $1 million in debt that they will never be able to repay on the 3,292-square-foot, six-bedroom, red-brick Colonial they bought for $617,055 in 2005. The Boatengs have not made a mortgage payment in 2,322 days — more than six years — according to their most recent mortgage statement. "

GREED caught up to them. They lied at closing about their employment. She lied about a $20,000 loan to "expand" her Mary Kay business.

AND THEIR "SOLUTION" IS TO PAY *NOTHING* ON THEIR MORTGAGE FOR OVER SIX YEARS???!!!

But they were willing to pay Brooklyn-based Litvin Law Firm $750 a month for two years to try to get them out of their contracts.

Six years living in a PG County McMansion for free. Fuck 'em.

Democrats want everyone to live in and own these fine houses regardless of whether they have earned it. But that's not how life works - someone has to pay for it all.

Republicans want everyone to be responsible for their own actions. That means both the banks for making sub-prime loans and the Boateng's for taking the money. Both sides should lose something.

Wow I read that they lived in the house for 6 years with out paying any of it either. I don't know which makes me more made the fact that the post makes it such a sob story and that they we taken advantage or that they just didn't know better. I took out a personal $20,000 hoping my husband wouldn't find out about it. Who does that and what bank just approves it? I hope that they and everyone like them gets kicked out on the street and the banks continue to go after them until they are repayed the debt they owe. Not the interest just the debt.

BUSH DID IT! Whats The Answer? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Expansive windows, Beautiful Grounds, Estate Grown Kona.

Lifelong ENVY and BUTTHURT. Thanks for mentioning the estate-grown Kona though. Just savoring a freshly made cup of that right now. Mmmm...so good!

living large Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It sounds like they tried to live way beyond their means.

It sounds like they put way too much trust in a myth and superstition community that made them sitting ducks for rampaging cowboy capitalists.

> Op, republicans and democrats are responsible.

For the credit crisis and resulting Great Recession? No, that was all Republicans all the time. Life-lesson in why laissez-faire, free-market capitalism is a Grade-A recipe for absolute disaster.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> living large Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It sounds like they tried to live way beyond
> their means.
>
> It sounds like they put way too much trust in a
> myth and superstition community that made them
> sitting ducks for rampaging cowboy capitalists.
>
> > Op, republicans and democrats are responsible.
>
> For the credit crisis and resulting Great
> Recession? No, that was all Republicans all the
> time. Life-lesson in why laissez-faire,
> free-market capitalism is a Grade-A recipe for
> absolute disaster.


Obobo was in Congress, what kind of financial legislation did he draft up to prevent this? Oh, none.

Typical asshole family who overspends, jacks off the bank for 6 years with NO PAYMENTS, and then cries and plays the God card....

"Oh, woe is me"

I have zero respect for a bank that did not act on eviction about 5 years ago.

FUCK these overspending deadbeats.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

So Whats The Answer? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OP here. Agreed Democrats and Republicans did it.
> Was it not Barney Frank and Democrats that
> loosened lending rules to allow more low income
> people to buy houses.

Republicans took control of Congress in January 1995. They took the White House in January 2001. Barney Frank and all other Democrats were in the MINORITY over the entire rise and fall of the credit crisis. They were calling NONE of the shots.

> And Bush. Asleep at the switch? And Doing nothing
> about the sub prime loans.

Bush was doing plenty. Egging Wall Street on and on to do more and more business. He even removed leverage limits from the Big Five investment banks (all now deceased) to help make it happen. It was Greenspan meanwhile who was lifeguard over at the subprime pool. He just sat there. Congress (with a big assist from Barney Frank in fact) had given the Fed tools to regulate subprime credit markets in 1994. But why use them? Markets are wise enough to regulate themselves, don't you know. What could possibly go wrong?

> The "bundled" packages of bank investments.

Securitization of bundles of assets is garden variety finance. Things are not necessarily bad simply because you don't understand them.

> Yet No One Democrats or GOP were bitchen about
> getting those home equity loans to buy new
> cars.vacations,home additions and improvement,
> college for the kids.

What do you have against home-equity credit? It was Reagan who made home-equity king by making all other forms of personal interest non-deductible. And cars, vacations, home improvements, and college for the kids are about as Mom and apple pie all-American as you can get. Why do you hate America?

> Hey Hey banks just forgive a couple hundred thou.

This is exactly what should be done. Keep in mind that this alleged "debt" did not arise from any fair exchange of assets, but from slick language never explained to borrowers and simply hidden away in the fine print by a bunch of predatory shysters and hucksters. All of that phony debt should simply be erased. The problem lies in finding a means to do that. It was taxpayers who elected Bush -- twice -- so there's every reason to believe that it's taxpayers who should foot the bill for cleaning up the messes that he left. Elections have consequences, after all.

> As others who were not living large as myself
> lived in Apts waiting it out Because we knew it
> was a overpriced market??

You weren't qualified for credit even by Bushie standards? That's really not something to be going around bragging about.

contractor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have no answer for the solution.
> When everything went belly up, I fixed some fanny
> Mae homes. You would be surprised at how many
> homes had bathroom and lighting fixtures removed.
> Over half of them. Appliances removed. Most were
> nice newer homes. Its not just section 8 people
> that destroy after they get booted. Anybody, any
> color with no credit rating will destroy a place
> after leaving.

Not necessarily the foreclosed owners doing it. Any empty building is a target for strippers, especially in tough economic times. Break in, take anything you can resell, then go resell it all. Copper pipes, copper wiring, any sort of workable appliance or accessory. It all becomes fair game for the underground once an owner either walks or is chased away

Dems took over both the House and Senate in January 2007.

None had any interest in changing the course America was on, Repubs or Dems.

Obozo was in the Senate.

Where were his proposals and policies to fix the problem?
There weren't any.

Here's Barney frank in 2005, tell me if it sounds like he's trying to fix anything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW5qKYfqALE


Can you hand ANY BLAME to deadbeat fucksticks who live in a home for SIX FUCKING YEARS while not paying the banks a dime?

Do you have any beef with the fact the banks were bailed out and able to write off losses like this scumbag family at you and your childrens expense?

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

Notabanker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Six years living in a PG County McMansion for
> free. Fuck 'em.

They were honest, hard-working, well educated people who came here looking for an opportunity to earn a better life. They got eaten alive by wanton predators. You're rooting for the predators. Fuck YOU, you pathetic asshole!!!

Solution is simple. Stop paying the mortgage, charge up credit cards, stash as much cash as you can then declare bankruptcy and walk away from all your debit. Then you go get a shitty apartment, wait a few years and pay bills on time. After that some bank will give you a loan to get another house.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Notabanker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Six years living in a PG County McMansion for
> > free. Fuck 'em.
>
> They were honest, hard-working, well educated
> people who came here looking for an opportunity to
> earn a better life. They got eaten alive by
> wanton predators. You're rooting for the
> predators. Fuck YOU, you pathetic asshole!!!


They were too fucking stupid to do basic math.

Correct?

They've shown me enough about their character in stiffing the bank for 6 years.

Why haven't they just moved into a townhouse somewhere and save money, get back on their feet?

Deadbeats like this bunch should be deported.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obobo was in Congress, what kind of financial legislation
> did he draft up to prevent this? Oh, none.

While you were such a total dork as to be off watching FOX Fucking News all the live-long day, Congress was drafting and Bush was torpedoing bipartisan GSE reform efforts for years. All Bush wanted to hamstring the GSEs and turn the mission over to the private sector -- the very people who were busy manufacturing the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression.

Meanwhile banking and securities regulators whose responsibility it was to keep shit like this from happening just sat back and simply watched as all this shit actually happened.

Bush and his moron assistants were a bunch of co-conspirators and red-handed accessories to the crime.

> Typical asshole family who overspends, jacks off
> the bank for 6 years with NO PAYMENTS, and then
> cries and plays the God card....

No one was more into faith-based communities than George W Bush. Of course, they are actually a terrible place to go for advice of any kind, but immigrants for ages have turned to the advice of predecessor expatriate groups, be they tongs, synagogues, or churches. People do not become "fair game" for liars and swindlers on such an account.

> FUCK these overspending deadbeats.

Ha-ha! I hope you lose your job soon and it turns out that someone embezzled and ran off with your 401-k. LOL!

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dems took over both the House and Senate in January 2007.

They were a day late and a dollar short. The credit crisis grew up and then blew up between 2002 and 2006. All Republicans, all the time. Housing prices and interest rates peaked in the Spring of 2006. The horses were all out of the barn at that point. The crisis was already inevitable. Mortgage defaults began to increase, secondary market notes began to fail, unmarketable tier-3 assets began to proliferate, and via the magical tentacles of systemic risk, all trust evaporated and we had a full-blown credit crisis by the summer of 2007. About which nothing was done. In fairness, action at that time would have been expensive and there was no popular will for it, so instead we just waited around for asset markets to collapse, helping to plunge us into a credit-driven, self-reinforcing downward spiral, the likes of which no one had ever seen before. Thanks, George.

> None had any interest in changing the course
> America was on, Repubs or Dems.

That's ahistorical bullshit. Congress repeatedly tried to craft bipartisan GSE-reform legislation, and Bush kept shooting it down. But that was not in the main ring at all. The worst crimes were pouring gasoline on the Wall Street fire and as the flames rose higher and higher, refusing to call out the fire department.

> Here's Barney frank in 2005, tell me if it sounds
> like he's trying to fix anything

Did you understand a word he said? He is pushing back against escalating Bush administration use of scare tactics in ramping up efforts to scuttle the GSEs, such as by the notorious S.190 that was on the table at the time of these remarks. Fortunately, that bill failed because even Republicans wouldn't vote for it, but that still left a vacuum where something helpful should have been. Bush was not able to be helpful at much of anything. Michael Oxley -- the actual Republican Chairman of the Financial Services Committee, and Barney Frank -- the ranking minority member -- had developed a GSE reform bill that provided long overdue reform based on legitimate safety and soundness issues. The bill passed the House, but as Oxley himself famously said, the bill received a "one-finger salute" from the White House. This is what was going on while you weren't paying any attention at all.

> Can you hand ANY BLAME to deadbeat fucksticks who
> live in a home for SIX FUCKING YEARS while not
> paying the banks a dime?

At this point, they have no more access to the money they would need to make timely payments. When they had such access, they faithfully made such payments. Then wheels they had no knowledge of or control over began to spin. At some point, caveat emptor becomes criminal conspiracy to defraud. You don't seem to have any idea where that point might be.

> Do you have any beef with the fact the banks were
> bailed out and able to write off losses like this
> scumbag family at you and your childrens expense?

God, you have been fucking hoodwinked. There is no significant residual bill to be paid off from TARP, and the various asset exchange facilities that the Fed and Treasury pulled together on the fly to prevent a collapse of the global financial system have been turning profits. Which revert annually to the Treasury. Neither you nor I nor any of our children will be paying anything for this.

I see Goober Watcher is on board to defend the rights of immigrants to live well beyond their means and have "Goober-Americans" pay their gigantic expenses.

Why live within your means when you can have your fellow tax payers pay your mortgage. Not 1 mortgage but 2. One for your Bowie McMansion and the other on your Germantown rental property.

Debtors prison should return to punish scam artists like the Boatengs.

>> Yet No One Democrats or GOP were bitchen about
> getting those home equity loans to buy new
> cars.vacations,home additions and improvement,
> college for the kids.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>What do you have against home-equity credit? It was Reagan who made home-equity king by making all other forms of personal interest non-deductible. And cars, vacations, home improvements, and college for the kids are about as Mom and apple pie all-American as you can get. Why do you hate America?

I have nothing about home equity, It helped the economey at the time and still does, travel agents, the hotel industry,car dealers, home improvement contractors all did well and employed people, nothing wrong with that. The point is I heard no Democrats bitchen that the housing money making sky rocket was going to blow, and people were going to get thrown under the bus with the unreal high home prices. As noted in this thread What did Obama have to say? Or Other Democrats? Where were their dire warnings?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Hey Hey banks just forgive a couple hundred thou.


>This is exactly what should be done. Keep in mind that this alleged "debt" did not arise from any fair exchange of assets, but from slick language never explained to borrowers and simply hidden away in the fine print by a bunch of predatory shysters and hucksters

A full pant load of crap for Democrat voters to hear and suck up on, looking for a free ride. Who in the hell makes serious financial decisions Without CONSULTING A LAWYER? Thats like going into court pleading "I did not know it was against the law". These people were simply not very smart to NOT get legal advice. They took their chances and played on the chance to make BIG MONEY in the Real Estate game and lost. It happens to ALL Kinds Of People and WHOS Bailing THEM OUT? And even giving them a reduced mortgage rate of 4.75 or 3.00 is NOT FAIR To All Those Who ARE PAYING their mortgages unless its a across the board deal.And Who picks up the bill for that and why should it happen?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> As others who were not living large as myself
> lived in Apts waiting it out Because we knew it
> was a overpriced market??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>You weren't qualified for credit even by Bushie standards? That's really not something to be going around bragging about.

Thats what you don't know smug one. I was more qualified then the people in the Post story, I just knew the market was way overpriced , I liked my place as I was still working and was close to work, and I WAS NOT A SUCKER!

Enjoy that cup of estate grown Kona and be smug that you were smart enough to get legal advice on your real estate transactions like myself, and don't you dare LIE and say you did not. Or try to defend these people in the Post for unwise real estate investments. The POST story is what it is a SOB Story and a poor one at that.

The Post put up the first of this series of stories a few days ago and had open comments. They took the comments down and re-posted the stories in a new format.

The usual left wing readers were pissed and had no patience for this kind of sob story. Even normal lefties seem to believe in personal responsibility when it comes to financial decisions.

The start of this entire crisis was the belief that everyone should own a home and that a vested interest in a community would improve people's average behavior socially and financially. They were wrong.

Africans have very poor future time orientation and the results can be observed in Sub-Saharan Africa, Detroit, Haiti, Jamaica and any black community. They just don't give a fuck.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> contractor Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have no answer for the solution.
> > When everything went belly up, I fixed some
> fanny
> > Mae homes. You would be surprised at how many
> > homes had bathroom and lighting fixtures
> removed.
> > Over half of them. Appliances removed. Most
> were
> > nice newer homes. Its not just section 8 people
> > that destroy after they get booted. Anybody,
> any
> > color with no credit rating will destroy a
> place
> > after leaving.
>
> Not necessarily the foreclosed owners doing it.
> Any empty building is a target for strippers,
> especially in tough economic times. Break in,
> take anything you can resell, then go resell it
> all. Copper pipes, copper wiring, any sort of
> workable appliance or accessory. It all becomes
> fair game for the underground once an owner either
> walks or is chased away

Nah, it was obviously the homeowners. Copper was still there. No break in. Just fixtures and appliances gone. Thieves would have taken the wiring too. At least from easy to get to spots like unfinished basements and attics.

shell answer man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Solution is simple. Stop paying the mortgage,
> charge up credit cards, stash as much cash as you
> can then declare bankruptcy and walk away from all
> your debit. Then you go get a shitty apartment,
> wait a few years and pay bills on time. After that
> some bank will give you a loan to get another house.

Bankruptcy is of course an option. But it's not as much fun as you make it out to be. The purpose of bankruptcy is to provide a fresh start by extinguishing your remaining eligible debts AFTER any assets you may have (such as that cash you tried to squirrel away) are used to satisfy the claims of creditors. Any actions you may have taken that the court views as attempts to hide assets from the Court are liable to be reversed.

After bankruptcy, you will indeed receive lots of offers for new credit. Lenders know that bankruptcy means your new debt is first in line for repayment. It also means they can charge you an arm and a leg in interest. In fact, you will likely have to start out with a "secured" line of credit, where you put say $300 in the bank, and they issue you a credit card with a $300 credit limit. Your job then is to charge stuff and faithfully pay it all off on a timely basis without ever touching your original $300. If you can do that for a while, maybe then you can move up a notch. You will meanwhile fail many background checks and will need co-signers for any significant financial transaction. In financial terms, you will be living in your Mom's basement. This all lasts for seven years. Enjoy!

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Notabanker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Six years living in a PG County McMansion for
> > free. Fuck 'em.
>
> They were honest, hard-working, well educated
> people who came here looking for an opportunity to
> earn a better life. They got eaten alive by
> wanton predators. You're rooting for the
> predators. Fuck YOU, you pathetic asshole!!!


They may be honest, hard-working, and well-educated people, but they're fucking idiots.

They bought a house way beyond their means to begin with. Compounded their problems by doing an even worse refinancing. Kids on top. Took multiple personal loans trying to make up for what they didn't have in income or assets. They were doomed from the start, just took reality a while to catch up with them.

Now, just like lots of others who do similar dumb shit, they want to blame everyone else and have people feel sorry for them. Yes, I'm sorry that you're stupid and that we facilitate the stupidity of people like you.

Predatory Lending, Really?

The people who signed-up for "interest only" mortgages got fooled. Fooled by themselves to think the market would climb forever. Nonsense.

Blame the naive buyers who couldn't figure out that paying JUST interest, especially when it was a ZERO DOWN (or very little) note, there was no skin in the game - they could walk away quite easily.

Basic Economics 101 ought to be taught in school. Heck, in Fairfax County, I am not sure checkbook balancing is taught in math anymore, but was in the 7th grade for me. It was a solid foundation of what comes out of the account must be equal to or less than what I put in...

Anyways, this story, and the earlier one in the Washington Post this month are really bizarre, almost as if the WP wants to establish some kind of position towards forgiving mortgages of irresponsible people. It's easier to blame someone else, I suppose.

Oh, and Re: Debtors Prison, hadn't heard that term in a very long time. My Mom used to mention it often. I figured such a place really existed. But it seems one can declare bankruptcy and still live high on those who bailed them out. Disgusting.

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They were too fucking stupid to do basic math.

So are you.

> Why haven't they just moved into a townhouse
> somewhere and save money, get back on their feet?

Basic math failure.

> Deadbeats like this bunch should be deported.

They are US citizens, moron.

Augiedog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow I read that they lived in the house for 6
> years with out paying any of it either. I don't
> know which makes me more made the fact that the
> post makes it such a sob story and that they we
> taken advantage or that they just didn't know
> better. I took out a personal $20,000 hoping my
> husband wouldn't find out about it. Who does that
> and what bank just approves it? I hope that they
> and everyone like them gets kicked out on the
> street and the banks continue to go after them
> until they are repayed the debt they owe. Not the
> interest just the debt.


They lost me when they kept the townhouse to rent and the old lady had thousands of dollars of Mary Kay sitting in the house. Too many get rich schemes that backfired, no sympathy

Re: Families Suffer with Underwater Homes In Fairfax, P.Georges Co.

so what. i've suffered UNDERWARE ATTACKS

Agree with much of what has been said already but the #1 people to blame are those who took out a loan and signed for it. You know how much you make, they tell you what the monthly payment will be so if it doesn't add up and you still sign it - shame on you and you must live with the consequences.

Sure the banks and government regulations were lax and irresponsible but those who got themselves into debt acting like victims is a joke. They don't complain when they pull into that nice big house every night do they?? They should live day to day in a smaller one or an apartment they can afford but no they'd rather stay in the big house - get all that benefit and then blame others when the bill comes. You can't take all the benefit and complain about the bill.

Fairfaxiann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agree with much of what has been said already but
> the #1 people to blame are those who took out a
> loan and signed for it. You know how much you
> make, they tell you what the monthly payment will
> be so if it doesn't add up and you still sign it -
> shame on you and you must live with the
> consequences.
>
> Sure the banks and government regulations were lax
> and irresponsible but those who got themselves
> into debt acting like victims is a joke. They
> don't complain when they pull into that nice big
> house every night do they?? They should live day
> to day in a smaller one or an apartment they can
> afford but no they'd rather stay in the big house
> - get all that benefit and then blame others when
> the bill comes. You can't take all the benefit
> and complain about the bill.

So, when we bought our home, I put down over 20% on a CONVENTIONAL 30 year fixed mortgage. We paid upper $200'S for our home in the mid 1990s. When I got the loan, my income to debt ratio was scrutinized. The mortgage was about 30% of my income at the time. Granted, within 3 years I was making double that, but for the purpose of this exercise, I'll just say it was tough to get the loan.

Now, fast forward 5-6 years, and the interest-only loans came to be, compounded with ZERO down. Who couldn't see the train wreck on the horizon?

A co-worker of mine used to wonder on the bubble, and when it would burst. We figured 5 years. This was in 2001/2002, and we were pretty much spot-on. The pyramid scheme could only last so long.

He benefitted from the market though, cashing out in 2008 and retiring. His home, which I think he paid $260k for in 1997, was sold for around $650k. I think my house in Fairfax County is currently assessed around $725k +/-. Your results may vary.

What A Sob Story In The Post Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point is I heard no Democrats bitchen that the
> housing money making sky rocket was going to blow,
> and people were going to get thrown under the bus
> with the unreal high home prices. As noted in this
> thread What did Obama have to say? Or Other Democrats?
> Where were their dire warnings?

You were not paying any more attention than "WingNut". Warnings began to appear in academic and professional journals in late 2003 and became much more energetic in 2004. This was not about the price of homes. Home prices responded exactly as they should have to the fact that mortgage rates declined by 335 basis points between mid-2000 and mid-2003. Increasing prices and a frenzy of sales and refinancing activity were the only possible results.

The problem was rather with abuse of credit markets being carried out by unscrupulous private brokers who were writing notes packed with high-cost, high-profit terms that they -- though not the borrowers -- knew full well would fail once interest rates began to go up. And everyone knew that interest rates would soon be going up. Greenspan had been grilled on particularly the sub-prime aspects of this abuse by Democrats (such as Barney Frank) during his regular appearances before Congress, but his response was always that his crack staff was keeping him informed and abreast of developments and that he would not hesitate to take action if any became necessary. Well, the part about his having a crack staff was right, but the rest of that was just a crock.

> A full pant load of crap for Democrat voters to
> hear and suck up on, looking for a free ride.

Yeah, yeah. More pathetic right-wing cradle-to-grave nanny state swill. Why don't you all just stow all that asshat faux-libertarian bullshit.

> Who in the hell makes serious financial decisions
> Without CONSULTING A LAWYER?

Everyone.

> These people were simply not very smart to NOT get
> legal advice.

They got advice where they always got advice. Through the social networks at their church.

> They took their chances and played on the chance to
> make BIG MONEY in the Real Estate game and lost.

Yeah, couple of real high-rollers, these folks! They rented out a townhouse to cover the mortgage there and bought a new house closer to work that they hoped would appreciate as well. Whoa! Not many people would be so "out there" as to try a thing like that!

> Thats what you don't know smug one. I was more
> qualified then the people in the Post story, I
> just knew the market was way overpriced , I liked
> my place as I was still working and was close to
> work, and I WAS NOT A SUCKER!

So you were not in the market in any case. You're sort of boasting that you shot a great round of golf on a day you didn't actually play. Nice.

> Enjoy that cup of estate grown Kona and be smug
> that you were smart enough to get legal advice on
> your real estate transactions like myself, and
> don't you dare LIE and say you did not.

LOL! I did retain a settlement attorney re the very first real estate deal I ever entered into. Wasted money, except for the lesson learned. Have not used a lawyer since.

> Or try to defend these people in the Post for
> unwise real estate investments. The POST story
> is what it is a SOB Story and a poor one at that.

They intended to and believed that they were in fact doing everything right. They then joined with millions of others in the same boat who got to take a bath for that thanks to the sins of a bunch of cowboy capitalists on Wall Street and nutcase laissez-faire regulators in Washington.

If you don't read the loan docs what do you assholes expect?

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> blah blah blah

Quit making excuses for stupid people fucking up.

Independent of anything beyond them, they couldn't afford the place they bought, markets and appreciation or not. They bought what they wanted, not what they could afford. They didn't properly readjust their dreams back to match the reality when circumstances dictated that they must. Then made it even worse by trying to mitigate that through a long string of extraordinarily poor financial decisions.

They screwed up. Back up. Regroup. Get your ass back on track. Move on. No, you don't get to keep the fucking house that you couldn't and still can't afford.

/thread

Glad to see that more solid rounds of golf have been shot by people who don't own a set of clubs or shoes.

And by the way, research has shown that people who use phrases such as "skin in the game" and "Econ 101" are among the dumbest of all posters on the internet.

Meanwhile, the lives and plans of millions were destroyed by the wanton recklessness of Wall Street and market-related delusions rampant within a particular Republican administration. The couple in the Post article were just two of them.

victims victims everywhere Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > blah blah blah
>
> Quit making excuses for stupid people fucking up.
>
>
> Independent of anything beyond them, they couldn't
> afford the place they bought, markets and
> appreciation or not. They bought what they
> wanted, not what they could afford. They didn't
> properly readjust their dreams back to match the
> reality when circumstances dictated that they
> must. Then made it even worse by trying to
> mitigate that through a long string of
> extraordinarily poor financial decisions.
>
> They screwed up. Back up. Regroup. Get your ass
> back on track. Move on. No, you don't get to
> keep the fucking house that you couldn't and still
> can't afford.
>
> /thread

Fuck these trolls

So Whats The Answer? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OP here. Agreed Democrats and Republicans did it.
> Was it not Barney Frank and Democrats that
> loosened lending rules to allow more low income
> people to buy houses. So that a 100K house would
> be available to some one makeing 25 K And making
> that 100 K house a 150 K house then a 300k house
> because of the number of people that now could
> "afford It"
>
> And Bush. Asleep at the switch? And Doing nothing
> about the sub prime loans. The "bundled packages
> of bank investments. Let the Good Times Roll! Yet
> No One Democrats or GOP were bitchen about getting
> those home equity loans to buy new
> cars.vacations,home additions and improvement,
> college for the kids.
>
> And after the fall out Obama wanting to bail em
> all out for votes?
>
> Understandable that slip and slide loans were out
> there looking for Suckers.
>
> And suckers bit. And if their loans are "forgiven"
> to a lower intrest rate say 4.75 % they still
> can't make the payments. And so there underwater.
> Hey Hey banks just forgive a couple hundred thou.
> While a hundred thou today makes the difference
> for many today to be just be able to get a foot in
> the door to buy a condo. Screw them and all the
> other responsible people .. But Bail out the Ones
> That were Living Large ?
>
> As others who were not living large as myself
> lived in Apts waiting it out Because we knew it
> was a overpriced market??
>
> Whats The answer to all this?


Bush and the GOP tried to get a handle on this but were called "racists" for not allowing poor blacks to not get the mortgage they wanted. It was a non-starter for the adults in the GOP.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Notabanker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Six years living in a PG County McMansion for
> > free. Fuck 'em.
>
> They were honest, hard-working, well educated
> people who came here looking for an opportunity to
> earn a better life. They got eaten alive by
> wanton predators. You're rooting for the
> predators. Fuck YOU, you pathetic asshole!!!


They are THIEVES!!!! There is no reason why they have failed to make any mortgage payments for over 2700 days!! Even renters get evicted for not paying anything.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glad to see that more solid rounds of golf have
> been shot by people who don't own a set of clubs
> or shoes.
>
> And by the way, research has shown that people who
> use phrases such as "skin in the game" and "Econ
> 101" are among the dumbest of all posters on the
> internet.
>
> Meanwhile, the lives and plans of millions were
> destroyed by the wanton recklessness of Wall
> Street and market-related delusions rampant within
> a particular Republican administration. The
> couple in the Post article were just two of them.


"Wall Street" had nothing to do with this. A banker did not threaten to lynch them for not taking out the mortgage. The blame goes to their alleged "friends" who encouraged them to throw out 12+ years of education and not abide by normal lending standards and taking out a debt more than 30% of their income.

$600,000 house on $100,000 of income is too much house, plus the expenses of carrying a rental property. A downward spiral of debt. No common sense. Living way beyond their means.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glad to see that more solid rounds of golf have
> been shot by people who don't own a set of clubs
> or shoes.
>
> And by the way, research has shown that people who
> use phrases such as "skin in the game" and "Econ
> 101" are among the dumbest of all posters on the
> internet.
>
> Meanwhile, the lives and plans of millions were
> destroyed by the wanton recklessness of Wall
> Street and market-related delusions rampant within
> a particular Republican administration. The
> couple in the Post article were just two of them.


Please, oh please, share with us the "research" that shows the phrases I used, are those made by the dumbest of all posters on the internet. Please.

Regarding the subject of the article, they could not afford their home(s), plain and simple. They were offered bad advice from "friends" and their church members, and should pay the consequences. But surely there is a bail out program just being to be created.

Where is the personal responsibility? Where are the ethics and the moral compass? Not in the article, and not in your logic from what I've seen thus far.
They bought into an area where most of the cars were foreign, therefore they felt it would be hospitable. That's amazing!

We need a program to fix the injustices of the housing bubble, student loan bubble, etc. That's work, but who will pay? Oh, me, some more...

Poor you... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BUSH DID IT! Whats The Answer? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Expansive windows, Beautiful Grounds, Estate
> Grown Kona.
>
> Lifelong ENVY and BUTTHURT. Thanks for mentioning
> the estate-grown Kona though. Just savoring a
> freshly made cup of that right now. Mmmm...so
> good!


Poor you... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BUSH DID IT! Whats The Answer? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Expansive windows, Beautiful Grounds, Estate
> Grown Kona.
>
> Lifelong ENVY and BUTTHURT. Thanks for mentioning
> the estate-grown Kona though. Just savoring a
> freshly made cup of that right now. Mmmm...so
> good!



Kona coffee is nice and affordable. The true bonus is that it is readily available in many places. Heck, even Trader Joe's has some available on their shelves if I'm not mistaken. A nice everyday coffee is a Fazenda Santa Ines. It's truly heaven in a cup. When entertaining, of course, nothing can replace Luwak.

>
> > Why haven't they just moved into a townhouse
> > somewhere and save money, get back on their
> feet?
>
> Basic math failure.
>


They HAVE a townhouse. Is there still a deadbeat like them in there or did they manage to get them out? They can fit again now that Grandma passed. Three bedrooms, two bathrooms. No mention of what is going on with this property.

Too much borrowing to pay back what they have borrowed. Always a bad idea. They have income now, right? Could they at least pay the mortgage on the townhouse? Oh wait. They are foreclosing on both? So, why pay anything. Are they still making six figures? What are they spending it on if they aren't making any mortgage payments? Obviously you still have food, clothing, transportation, etc., but there should be something left after that.

I need to see more information. This is SO fishy.

If they are making $8500 a month, left with maybe $6000 after taxes....that is more than they need for food, clothing, transportation, etc.

This is such an mess. No sympathy.

BUSH DID IT! Whats The Answer? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Read This SOB Story. So What do they want? The
> Govt to pay off their House?
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/201
> 5/01/26/distressed-family-swamped-by-an-underwater
> -home/?hpid=z1
>
> This is in PG Md and here in FX Co too.
>
> They have not made a payment since 2008! And
> there still there. Pityfull.
>
> What the Hell Have Democrats done to this
> country?? Self Respect?
>
> Responsibility? Oh Well I'll just sign I'll
> figure it all out later!
>
> Large European Cars, Expansive windows, Beautiful
> Grounds, Estate Grown Kona.


There was another article in the WP which had a similar tone of compassion for those who made poor (financial) decisions on sub prime (interest only/Zero down?) loans.

Sounds like more homeowners who didn't take time to read or fully understand their loans, and when they were due for the rate to adjust, surprise, you now have principal to pay, and lots more due to the interest-only for the first part of the term.



From the WP article:


"The Bryants owe just over $560,000 on their house, which they estimate is worth about $80,000 less than that. Since they moved in 2001, their monthly payment has more than doubled to nearly $3,900 a month — a predicament that arose because of an ill-advised refinancing into a loan whose terms the federal government now deems predatory.

The couple have never missed a mortgage payment. But now they are struggling to hold on. They have pulled their two pre-teen daughters out of private school. They bought inexpensive used cars. Instead of going on vacation last summer, they took the girls to Six Flags America, a nearby amusement park. They have little saved for college or retirement."

I've never understood why the Post does these 'heartbreaking' human interest stories about 'victims' who bring about their own downfall. There's plenty of blame to go around, but the basic premise that everybody should own a home is just plain wrong. If you are too stupid to understand the terms of your loan - especially the part where it says that your mortgage payment will double - then you're too stupid to own a home.

The financial situation of the family in question was made much worse by their continued stupidity and greed. A house is not a piggy bank. There are consequences to refinancing - starting with the fact that the loans have to be paid back. It's clear that the couple lied to the bank and even lied to each other. Then they compounded their problems by taking out 60k in educational loans.

The family now makes over 100k/year, but they have not made a mortgage payment in six years. How is this fair or right? There are predators and there are victims. In this case, the 'victims' are just as predatory as the people who allowed (or perhaps encouraged) this family to get into this situation.

^^^^^My thoughts exactly. You also have to allow large sums of money for maintenance. And emergencies. This is called being house poor.

People seem to think loans are gifts. They are NOT gifts. All those smiling people on tv taking out loans? What is so wonderful about taking out a
loan? You are generally taking out a loan because you can't afford something. You can't pay cash for it. Most people finance a house for leverage and because most people can't pay cash for a home. That means you don't want to overextend your obligations. You will probably never catch up.

Houses are not an investment. They don't always go up in value. They are an enormous drain on your budget. You buy a house because you have to live somewhere. Don't count on it to be a bottomless source of cash. I have owned several homes and never made much off of them. The closing costs and maintenance and repairs and the economy took care of that.

>It really was Bush's fault ()

>> They took their chances and played on the chance to
> make BIG MONEY in the Real Estate game and lost.

TRUE

>They intended to and believed that they were in fact doing everything right. They then joined with millions of others in the same boat who got to take a bath for that thanks to the sins of a bunch of cowboy capitalists on Wall Street and nutcase laissez-faire regulators in Washington.

No you party line hack lying turd Thats not it and your too fucking partisan to say what the difference is between a real estate investor vs a "home owner"

They had a town house and they rented it , with out enough money to cover the deadbeats that did not pay them rent. You want to rent a house out your ass better have at least 6 mo mortgage payments in the bank cause it will take that long to get the deadbeats evicted and re rented. Then they bought a 600K house on 110 k a year income because they used lending tools available to them with "Church People" not lawyers advise. You sack of shit. They were "REAL ESTATE INVESTORS" and thats the end of their SOB story and yours TOO.
YOU HOUSE ASSHOLE PARTY LINE HACK AND SHILL.

Thank God the GOP is in command, there case goes NO where as It ever will. Hopefully the bank will foreclose on their sorry asses soon and throw them out SCAMMERS is all they are. Let them declare bankruptcy and let the shitty mess they created flow downhill on all of the rest of us paying our mortgages or rents every month.

People have lost their Hats and Asses on Real Estate investments since day 1 in this country and some have made multi millions also in the game. You play the game you may win or lose period.

Now God Bless You and enjoy the warmth of your large comfortable home and may you wake tommorow to a nice hot cup of Kona and the birds singing at your feeders. You made your money and I hope did not scam it. Now Smile !! At least a little!

Morning Mug Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kona coffee is nice and affordable.

Well, it's about $35 a pound. Affordable to some, perhaps not to others. Much would depend of course on one's fondness for coffee at all. In my case, I'm quite fond of it and drink coffee morning, noon, and night, so I do want as nice a cup as I can get. Jamaican Blue Mountain is another option, but it's actual availability has long been an issue.

> The true bonus is that it is readily available in
> many places.

No, estate-grown Kona is typically available only from an estate directly, or through one of the combines that do catalog and on-line marketing on behalf of a group of participating estates. Estates of course are just individual farms in the officially established and regulated Kona region. There are about 600 such farms over this 20-mile stretch on the west side of the Big Island, but most are quite small, in many cases comprising just a few acres. Year-round availability from a single estate is not to be assumed.

> Heck, even Trader Joe's has some available on
> their shelves if I'm not mistaken.

You are most likely mistaken. There is certainly nothing that would prevent Trader Joe's from selling estate-grown Kona, but what they and most other outlets market is what they call their "Kona blend". The word "blend" here means at least 95% South and Central American coffees. There is no such thing as a $50 Rolex, and there is no such thing as a $12 pound of estate-grown Kona.

> A nice everyday coffee is a Fazenda Santa Ines.
> It's truly heaven in a cup. When entertaining,
> of course, nothing can replace Luwak.

As even envious, butthurt Google-goobers can easily confirm, there are many highly touted and even some highly prized coffees in the world, but kopi luwak should certainly be avoided at all times on humanitarian grounds. As you further did not know, Fazenda Santa Ines comes from a single 180-acre farm in Brazil. They harvest everything between June and September, meaning that their coffee is simply not available for much of the year. The idea of it as an "everyday" coffee was simply dumb.

I have seen this scenario play out dozens of times just in my neighborhood...


Dumbfuck buys home at top of market...

Dumbfuck still thinks prices will go up,up,up.....

Dumbfuck thinks he will cash out in 2 years, become a mogul house flipper....

Dumbfuck loses shirt when values go DOWN...

Dumbfuck starts crying about the "American Dream", "Corrupt Bankers" and "all I wanted was a home!"


Other poster was right, a home can be an investment, but investments can always go to shit. If you can't pay the mortgage and are not planning to live there- WTF?

When you get a loan, there is something called DISCLOSURE. Did these stupid fuckheads IGNORE this part of the deal? They had to have initialed something.. I guess they didn't read it, no?

Americans who did the right thing and lived within their means can thank greedy halfwits like this African couple for wrecking the economy. You can blame the bankers all you want, but borrowers like this were a key ingredient in the disaster.

Anyone sticking up for these foreign pieces of trash after six years of non-payment is INSANE.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

They Were "Real Estate Investers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No you party line hack lying turd Thats not it and
> your too fucking partisan to say what the
> difference is between a real estate investor vs a
> "home owner"

Part of the cost of a home is a personal consumption expenditure made in exchange for the same shelter and related services that a renter pays for. The balance is an investment expense made in hopes of realizing tax benefits and eventual long-term capital gains. The notion that home-owners are not real estate investors by definition is simply silly.

> Thank God the GOP is in command...

Ah yes, the GOP. These are the people whose inane policies took America from one of its economic pinnacles to the worst economic collapse since the Great Depression in less than eight years. It is otherwise plain that many here understand nothing at all about the sources and evolution of the Great Recession. Spend 11 minutes with the easy-to-understand cartoon below, and you'll at least learn some of the basics. Aside from its confusion of subprime lending with abuse of subprime credit markets, this tells much of the story fairly realistically...

http://crisisofcredit.com/

> Now God Bless You and enjoy the warmth of your
> large comfortable home and may you wake tommorow
> to a nice hot cup of Kona and the birds singing at
> your feeders. You made your money and I hope did
> not scam it. Now Smile !! At least a little!

The Kona doesn't make itself, but making it is typically the first thing I do once actually reaching the simply stunning kitchen. I meanwhile smile virtually all the time. Life is not just good, but VERY good. And I made my money the old-fashioned way -- by offering people services that they were willing to pay quite well for. Then I invested the surplus in businesses and other assets that performed rather well over time. Well enough that these past 15 years or so I've had to focus on how best to give money away to people who need it more than I do. No, none of you can have any. You are not worthy.

But it's BOOOOOSHS fault.

Or something.

You need very, very deep pockets to speculate in real estate. And speculate is what they were doing.

And to the family who had to pull their kids out of private school and go to Six Flags to pay the mortgage, no sympathy. But, I am glad you are paying. I hope you learned a good lesson.

Don't buy stuff you can't afford Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But it's BOOOOOSHS fault. Or something.

CLUE: Lots of stuff ACTUALLY WAS Bush's fault, and it always will be. Pretty much everything he touched turned to shit, and it's not like the end of his eight years gave him any sort of hall-pass for having been such a fuck-up. History books will be condemning him for centuries.

These people just got incredibly bad advice at every step of the way. Buying a 600K house with 110K income is a colossally bad move. Anyone with any common sense should know this. To compound your financial crisis by taking out $55,000 in high interest personal loans... what can you say?

I agree with a previous questioner - they haven't made a mortgage payment in 6 years and are making about $100K per year - what are they doing with the money? If I didn't pay my mortgage for 6 years - that would be a nice chunk of change laying around.

commonsense Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These people just got incredibly bad advice at
> every step of the way. Buying a 600K house with
> 110K income is a colossally bad move. Anyone with
> any common sense should know this. To compound
> your financial crisis by taking out $55,000 in
> high interest personal loans... what can you say?
>
>
> I agree with a previous questioner - they haven't
> made a mortgage payment in 6 years and are making
> about $100K per year - what are they doing with
> the money? If I didn't pay my mortgage for 6
> years - that would be a nice chunk of change
> laying around.


+1

In my estimation, these grifters should have saved about $100K by avoiding the obligation they contractually made.

The bank should move on any assets they have, these people are very capable of fraud.

If they are legal immigrants, they should encouraged to move to another country, people like these are a dead weight on society.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

>Well enough that these past 15 years or so I've had to focus on how best to give money away to people who need it more than I do. No, none of you can have any. You are not worthy.

So then You are going to bail out the people in the Post story?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>The notion that home-owners are not real estate investors by definition is simply silly.


Sure homeowners buy homes and expect the houses to gain value over time.
But renting out a townhouse without proper funds to make mortgage payments then buying a house thats almost 6 times their income. Thats a Real Estate Investor and a piss poor one too. You can't defend them for Votes for Democrats. And any concept that the government should help them out of their jam is liberal insanity. And you know the rules of what homeowners especially 1st time homeowners can do and what breaks they get and the same for Real Estate Investors so dont lie and act as their Shill.

Rule number one Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You need very, very deep pockets to speculate in
> real estate. And speculate is what they were
> doing.

They bought a townhouse and lived in it. When job and family changes led them to move, they rented out the townhouse to cover that outflow and moved to a larger and more conveniently located home. This is garden variety American family history, not some sort of speculative whirlwind.

Like the vast majority of native-born Americans, these one-time immigrants were not financially sophisticated and relied on the advice of friends and associates whom they took to be more knowledgeable than they were. This is again absolutely mainstream American behavior. Neither these people not the millions of others who shared their fate deserved what the crooks and shysters on Wall Street and in Washington let plop onto their heads.

>moved to a larger and more conveniently located home. This is garden variety American family history, not some sort of speculative whirlwind.

Comical At Best SPIN


So they rent a town house and get a house that costs 6 times more then their income thru creative loan products? Thats "Garden Varity" American family history? Not being Real Estate investors.

No Ones Buying It Pal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yada-yada-yada-yada

You couldn't afford it anyway, pal. Too fucking dumb to understand what actually happened to you. Very common around FFXU.

>You couldn't afford it anyway, pal. Too fucking dumb to understand what actually happened to you. Very common around FFXU.

Whats all that babble about?

Your SPIN is seen here as Bullshit.

Now when are you going to bail out the people in the story ?

Tell us how it worked out. Since you have a huge house they should come stay with you while you bail them out of their affairs and give them advice. To keep them in good economic standing.

They will enjoy the Kona Im sure. Thanks for helping them out. I can understand that people that come over from different lands may not understand how things work here and get in a jam.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rule number one Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You need very, very deep pockets to speculate
> in
> > real estate. And speculate is what they were
> > doing.
>
> They bought a townhouse and lived in it. When job
> and family changes led them to move, they rented
> out the townhouse to cover that outflow and moved
> to a larger and more conveniently located home.
> This is garden variety American family history,
> not some sort of speculative whirlwind.
>
> Like the vast majority of native-born Americans,
> these one-time immigrants were not financially
> sophisticated and relied on the advice of friends
> and associates whom they took to be more
> knowledgeable than they were. This is again
> absolutely mainstream American behavior. Neither
> these people not the millions of others who shared
> their fate deserved what the crooks and shysters
> on Wall Street and in Washington let plop onto
> their heads.


Though the politicians allowed the climate of stupid loans to exist, the housing market has always fluctuated with the economy. Home values drop in recessions. When home values skyrocket, the same thing happens that happens on wall street. Things even out and correct themselves. Now, I'm a high school dropout, but even with my lack of schooling I saw the recession coming. Though no way did I know how bad it would be, I did recognise the patterns that I have seen in previous recessions. Greed fucks people all the time. Coveting what the Joneses have, and trying to keep up with them is a recipe for disaster.

No Ones Buying It Pal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >moved to a larger and more conveniently located
> home. This is garden variety American family
> history, not some sort of speculative whirlwind.
>
> Comical At Best SPIN
>
>
> So they rent a town house and get a house that
> costs 6 times more then their income thru creative
> loan products? Thats "Garden Varity" American
> family history? Not being Real Estate investors.


Agree but unfortunately it kind of was garden variety at the time. You had so many people across the board convinced that house prices could only go up and leveraging at their own levels and pulling equity out on that basis. You can see that in where the bulk of foreclosures were - AZ, FL, Vegas, parts of CA. The numbers of 'po folks' who were the victims of 'predatory lending' were relatively small in comparison and they didn't walk away in as large numbers.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Republicans took control of Congress in January
> 1995. They took the White House in January 2001.
> Barney Frank and all other Democrats were in the
> MINORITY over the entire rise and fall of the
> credit crisis.

Wrong. After Jeffords became an Independent, the Senate was controlled by a Democrats for a time. Further, the Democrats took over both chambers in January 2007 which was BEFORE the crisis fully unfolded. They had time to act and did jack shit but play politics with the President.

> They were calling NONE of the
> shots.

Except when they were in charge. Also, if you think the minority has no powers in Congress, you'd be sorely mistaken.

> Bush was doing plenty.

He sure as hell was.

For years, President Bush and his Administration not only warned of the systemic consequences of failure to reform GSEs but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties. In fact, it was Congress that flatly rejected President Bush's call to reform the GSEs. Over the years, the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems with the GSEs.

2001

April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity." (2002 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 142)

2002

May: The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in the President's 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02)

2003

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market.


September: Then-Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.


September: Then-House Financial Services Committee Ranking Member Barney Frank (D-MA) strongly disagrees with the Administration's assessment, saying "these two entities – Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac – are not facing any kind of financial crisis … The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing." (Stephen Labaton, "New Agency Proposed To Oversee Freddie Mac And Fannie Mae," The New York Times, 9/11/03)


October: Senator Thomas Carper (D-DE) refuses to acknowledge any necessity for GSE reforms, saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." (Sen. Carper, Hearing of Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, 10/16/03)


November: Then-Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03)

2004

February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital and calls for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and therefore … should be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)


February: Then-CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)


April: Rep. Frank ignores the warnings, accusing the Administration of creating an "artificial issue." At a speech to the Mortgage Bankers Association conference, Rep. Frank said "people tend to pay their mortgages. I don't think we are in any remote danger here. This focus on receivership, I think, is intended to create fears that aren't there." ("Frank: GSE Failure A Phony Issue," American Banker, 4/21/04)


June: Then-Treasury Deputy Secretary Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and calls for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

2005

April: Then-Secretary Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America … Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05)


July: Then-Minority Leader Harry Reid rejects legislation reforming GSEs, "while I favor improving oversight by our federal housing regulators to ensure safety and soundness, we cannot pass legislation that could limit Americans from owning homes and potentially harm our economy in the process." ("Dems Rip New Fannie Mae Regulatory Measure," United Press International, 7/28/05)

2007

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, the White House, 8/9/07)


August: Senate Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Chairman Christopher Dodd ignores the President's warnings and calls on him to "immediately reconsider his ill-advised" position. (Eric Dash, "Fannie Mae's Offer To Help Ease Credit Squeeze Is Rejected, As Critics Complain Of Opportunism," The New York Times, 8/11/07)


December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs – and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, the White House, 12/6/07)

2008

February: Assistant Treasury Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, saying "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)


March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)


April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by … helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)


May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow state housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)


"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that – and Congress is making progress on this – is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)


"Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)

June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)


July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform legislation for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing.


September: Democrats in Congress forget their previous objections to GSE reforms, as Senator Dodd questions "why weren't we doing more, why did we wait almost a year before there were any significant steps taken to try to deal with this problem? … I have a lot of questions about where was the administration over the last eight years." (Dawn Kopecki, "Fannie Mae, Freddie 'House Of Cards' Prompts Takeover," Bloomberg, 9/9/08)




But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your well crafted and oft regurgitated talking points!

keeping up with the joneses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Though the politicians allowed the climate of
> stupid loans to exist...

Bush encouraged it. More, more, more, he cried to Wall Street as he slashed their leverage limits. Keep in mind that all this low quality paper was being bought up and securitized into the secondary markets by Wall Street's newly built "private label" securitizing shops that acted as a bypass around the standards imposed by the GSEs. These were a way for shyster predatory lenders such as Countrywide, Ameriquest, and New Century Financial to be paid back handsomely for abandoning any semblance of responsible underwriting standards. The GSE's had controlled about 70% of the primary market early in the decade, and by 2006, that had fallen to below 25%. The graph below is the other side of the market -- the share of MBS's sold into the secondary market by source. That red line is the Great Recession being manufactured.

> the housing market has always fluctuated with the
> economy. Home values drop in recessions.

No, they typically don't. The stability of home values and prices has been one of their hallmarks. Only during the worst of the S&L crisis and recession of 1990-91 had home prices actually fallen since WWII and that effect was not national, but seen in selected regions only.

> When home values skyrocket, the same thing happens
> that happens on wall street. Things even out and
> correct themselves.

Home values increased because interest rates fell. The Fed's targets for the federal funds rate had been cut in half in an attempt to battle the crisis-of-confidence recession of 2001, and were then slashed to a measly 1% in an attempt to ward off investor panic after 9/11. But in 2002 as Bush's tax cuts for the rich failed to spur any new economic activity, the Fed promised it would leave rates at those 9/11 rates for as long as it took for economic activity to pick up. Mortgage interet rates fell and fell and fell. Interest rates and asset prices are inversely related. When one goes down, other goes up.

> Now, I'm a high school dropout, but even with my
> lack of schooling I saw the recession coming.
> Though no way did I know how bad it would be,
> I did recognise the patterns that I have seen
> in previous recessions.

I don't see how, since you don't understand what drove it. Housing prices had nothing to do with it. The problem was all those bad loans that wall street had bought up and securitized. As interest rates finally rose again between mid-2004 and mid-2006, those weak notes began to fail in larger and larger numbers. Payment streams began to fall short of what was needed to make scheduled payments on the mortgage-backed securities held by major institutional investors such as major international and national banks, money market and pension funds, insurance companies, major endowment funds, and so on. Balance sheets began to be eroded by non-performing assets and the forces of systemic risk soon made everyone suspect as we fell into a complete loss of trust between banks and a full-blown credit crisis. As banks cut back on credit, small businesses couldn't make payroll. People were laid off. Demand declined. Asset markets crashed. More people defaulted on their mortgages and the whole cycle simply fed back on itself. It was a credit-driven self-reinforcing downward spiral -- something that had never been seen before on such a scale. The Great Recession was unlike any recession we had ever been through before, and it required some very imaginative financing tricks and gimmicks to get us pulled out of it.
Attachments:

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> keeping up with the joneses Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Though the politicians allowed the climate of
> > stupid loans to exist...
>
> Bush encouraged it. More, more, more, he cried to
> Wall Street as he slashed their leverage limits.
> Keep in mind that all this low quality paper was
> being bought up and securitized into the secondary
> markets by Wall Street's newly built "private
> label" securitizing shops that acted as a bypass
> around the standards imposed by the GSEs. These
> were a way for shyster predatory lenders such as
> Countrywide, Ameriquest, and New Century Financial
> to be paid back handsomely for abandoning any
> semblance of responsible underwriting standards.
> The GSE's had controlled about 70% of the primary
> market early in the decade, and by 2006, that had
> fallen to below 25%. The graph below is the other
> side of the market -- the share of MBS's sold into
> the secondary market by source. That red line is
> the Great Recession being manufactured.
>
> > the housing market has always fluctuated with
> the
> > economy. Home values drop in recessions.
>
> No, they typically don't. The stability of home
> values and prices has been one of their hallmarks.
> Only during the worst of the S&L crisis and
> recession of 1990-91 had home prices actually
> fallen since WWII and that effect was not
> national, but seen in selected regions only.
>
> > When home values skyrocket, the same thing
> happens
> > that happens on wall street. Things even out and
>
> > correct themselves.
>
> Home values increased because interest rates fell.
> The Fed's targets for the federal funds rate had
> been cut in half in an attempt to battle the
> crisis-of-confidence recession of 2001, and were
> then slashed to a measly 1% in an attempt to ward
> off investor panic after 9/11. But in 2002 as
> Bush's tax cuts for the rich failed to spur any
> new economic activity, the Fed promised it would
> leave rates at those 9/11 rates for as long as it
> took for economic activity to pick up. Mortgage
> interet rates fell and fell and fell. Interest
> rates and asset prices are inversely related.
> When one goes down, other goes up.
>
> > Now, I'm a high school dropout, but even with
> my
> > lack of schooling I saw the recession coming.
> > Though no way did I know how bad it would be,
> > I did recognise the patterns that I have seen
> > in previous recessions.
>
> I don't see how, since you don't understand what
> drove it. Housing prices had nothing to do with
> it. The problem was all those bad loans that wall
> street had bought up and securitized. As interest
> rates finally rose again between mid-2004 and
> mid-2006, those weak notes began to fail in larger
> and larger numbers. Payment streams began to fall
> short of what was needed to make scheduled
> payments on the mortgage-backed securities held by
> major institutional investors such as major
> international and national banks, money market and
> pension funds, insurance companies, major
> endowment funds, and so on. Balance sheets began
> to be eroded by non-performing assets and the
> forces of systemic risk soon made everyone suspect
> as we fell into a complete loss of trust between
> banks and a full-blown credit crisis. As banks
> cut back on credit, small businesses couldn't make
> payroll. People were laid off. Demand declined.
> Asset markets crashed. More people defaulted on
> their mortgages and the whole cycle simply fed
> back on itself. It was a credit-driven
> self-reinforcing downward spiral -- something that
> had never been seen before on such a scale. The
> Great Recession was unlike any recession we had
> ever been through before, and it required some
> very imaginative financing tricks and gimmicks to
> get us pulled out of it.

>
> > the housing market has always fluctuated with
> the
> > economy. Home values drop in recessions.
>
> No, they typically don't. The stability of home
> values and prices has been one of their hallmarks.
> Only during the worst of the S&L crisis and
> recession of 1990-91 had home prices actually
> fallen since WWII and that effect was not
> national, but seen in selected regions only.
>
> > When home values skyrocket, the same thing
> happens
> > that happens on wall street. Things even out and
>
> > correct themselves.
>
> Home values increased because interest rates fell.
> The Fed's targets for the federal funds rate had
> been cut in half in an attempt to battle the
> crisis-of-confidence recession of 2001, and were
> then slashed to a measly 1% in an attempt to ward
> off investor panic after 9/11. But in 2002 as
> Bush's tax cuts for the rich failed to spur any
> new economic activity, the Fed promised it would
> leave rates at those 9/11 rates for as long as it
> took for economic activity to pick up. Mortgage
> interet rates fell and fell and fell. Interest
> rates and asset prices are inversely related.
> When one goes down, other goes up.
>
> > Now, I'm a high school dropout, but even with
> my
> > lack of schooling I saw the recession coming.
> > Though no way did I know how bad it would be,
> > I did recognise the patterns that I have seen
> > in previous recessions.
>
> I don't see how, since you don't understand what
> drove it. Housing prices had nothing to do with
> it. The problem was all those bad loans that wall
> street had bought up and securitized. As interest
> rates finally rose again between mid-2004 and
> mid-2006, those weak notes began to fail in larger
> and larger numbers. Payment streams began to fall
> short of what was needed to make scheduled
> payments on the mortgage-backed securities held by
> major institutional investors such as major
> international and national banks, money market and
> pension funds, insurance companies, major
> endowment funds, and so on. Balance sheets began
> to be eroded by non-performing assets and the
> forces of systemic risk soon made everyone suspect
> as we fell into a complete loss of trust between
> banks and a full-blown credit crisis. As banks
> cut back on credit, small businesses couldn't make
> payroll. People were laid off. Demand declined.
> Asset markets crashed. More people defaulted on
> their mortgages and the whole cycle simply fed
> back on itself. It was a credit-driven
> self-reinforcing downward spiral -- something that
> had never been seen before on such a scale. The
> Great Recession was unlike any recession we had
> ever been through before, and it required some
> very imaginative financing tricks and gimmicks to
> get us pulled out of it.>
> > the housing market has always fluctuated with
> the
> > economy. Home values drop in recessions.
>
> No, they typically don't. The stability of home
> values and prices has been one of their hallmarks.
> Only during the worst of the S&L crisis and
> recession of 1990-91 had home prices actually
> fallen since WWII and that effect was not
> national, but seen in selected regions only.
>
> > When home values skyrocket, the same thing
> happens
> > that happens on wall street. Things even out and
>
> > correct themselves.
>
> Home values increased because interest rates fell.
> The Fed's targets for the federal funds rate had
> been cut in half in an attempt to battle the
> crisis-of-confidence recession of 2001, and were
> then slashed to a measly 1% in an attempt to ward
> off investor panic after 9/11. But in 2002 as
> Bush's tax cuts for the rich failed to spur any
> new economic activity, the Fed promised it would
> leave rates at those 9/11 rates for as long as it
> took for economic activity to pick up. Mortgage
> interet rates fell and fell and fell. Interest
> rates and asset prices are inversely related.
> When one goes down, other goes up.
>
> > Now, I'm a high school dropout, but even with
> my
> > lack of schooling I saw the recession coming.
> > Though no way did I know how bad it would be,
> > I did recognise the patterns that I have seen
> > in previous recessions.
>
> I don't see how, since you don't understand what
> drove it. Housing prices had nothing to do with
> it. The problem was all those bad loans that wall
> street had bought up and securitized. As interest
> rates finally rose again between mid-2004 and
> mid-2006, those weak notes began to fail in larger
> and larger numbers. Payment streams began to fall
> short of what was needed to make scheduled
> payments on the mortgage-backed securities held by
> major institutional investors such as major
> international and national banks, money market and
> pension funds, insurance companies, major
> endowment funds, and so on. Balance sheets began
> to be eroded by non-performing assets and the
> forces of systemic risk soon made everyone suspect
> as we fell into a complete loss of trust between
> banks and a full-blown credit crisis. As banks
> cut back on credit, small businesses couldn't make
> payroll. People were laid off. Demand declined.
> Asset markets crashed. More people defaulted on
> their mortgages and the whole cycle simply fed
> back on itself. It was a credit-driven
> self-reinforcing downward spiral -- something that
> had never been seen before on such a scale. The
> Great Recession was unlike any recession we had
> ever been through before, and it required some
> very imaginative financing tricks and gimmicks to
> get us pulled out of it.

>
> > the housing market has always fluctuated with
> the
> > economy. Home values drop in recessions.
>
> No, they typically don't. The stability of home
> values and prices has been one of their hallmarks.
> Only during the worst of the S&L crisis and
> recession of 1990-91 had home prices actually
> fallen since WWII and that effect was not
> national, but seen in selected regions only.
>
> > When home values skyrocket, the same thing
> happens
> > that happens on wall street. Things even out and
>
> > correct themselves.
>
> Home values increased because interest rates fell.
> The Fed's targets for the federal funds rate had
> been cut in half in an attempt to battle the
> crisis-of-confidence recession of 2001, and were
> then slashed to a measly 1% in an attempt to ward
> off investor panic after 9/11. But in 2002 as
> Bush's tax cuts for the rich failed to spur any
> new economic activity, the Fed promised it would
> leave rates at those 9/11 rates for as long as it
> took for economic activity to pick up. Mortgage
> interet rates fell and fell and fell. Interest
> rates and asset prices are inversely related.
> When one goes down, other goes up.
>
> > Now, I'm a high school dropout, but even with
> my
> > lack of schooling I saw the recession coming.
> > Though no way did I know how bad it would be,
> > I did recognise the patterns that I have seen
> > in previous recessions.
>
> I don't see how, since you don't understand what
> drove it. Housing prices had nothing to do with
> it. The problem was all those bad loans that wall
> street had bought up and securitized. As interest
> rates finally rose again between mid-2004 and
> mid-2006, those weak notes began to fail in larger
> and larger numbers. Payment streams began to fall
> short of what was needed to make scheduled
> payments on the mortgage-backed securities held by
> major institutional investors such as major
> international and national banks, money market and
> pension funds, insurance companies, major
> endowment funds, and so on. Balance sheets began
> to be eroded by non-performing assets and the
> forces of systemic risk soon made everyone suspect
> as we fell into a complete loss of trust between
> banks and a full-blown credit crisis. As banks
> cut back on credit, small businesses couldn't make
> payroll. People were laid off. Demand declined.
> Asset markets crashed. More people defaulted on
> their mortgages and the whole cycle simply fed
> back on itself. It was a credit-driven
> self-reinforcing downward spiral -- something that
> had never been seen before on such a scale. The
> Great Recession was unlike any recession we had
> ever been through before, and it required some
> very imaginative financing tricks and gimmicks to
> get us pulled out of it.

Why did these stupid bongos buy a house they could not afford?

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I don't see how, since you don't understand what
> drove it. Housing prices had nothing to do with
> it. The problem was all those bad loans that wall
> street had bought up and securitized. As interest
> rates finally rose again between mid-2004 and
> mid-2006, those weak notes began to fail in larger
> and larger numbers. Payment streams began to fall
> short of what was needed to make scheduled
> payments on the mortgage-backed securities held by
> major institutional investors such as major
> international and national banks, money market and
> pension funds, insurance companies, major
> endowment funds, and so on. Balance sheets began
> to be eroded by non-performing assets and the
> forces of systemic risk soon made everyone suspect
> as we fell into a complete loss of trust between
> banks and a full-blown credit crisis. As banks
> cut back on credit, small businesses couldn't make
> payroll. People were laid off. Demand declined.
> Asset markets crashed. More people defaulted on
> their mortgages and the whole cycle simply fed
> back on itself. It was a credit-driven
> self-reinforcing downward spiral -- something that
> had never been seen before on such a scale. The
> Great Recession was unlike any recession we had
> ever been through before, and it required some
> very imaginative financing tricks and gimmicks to
> get us pulled out of it.


Not true.

That may have been the proximate cause for the way in which the crash event itself happened and it drove things in the later stages, but it wasn't the underlying root cause. The price/asset bubble was apparent long before the bulk of that even started. There were many other more fundamental contributing factors. Ultimately, the necessary correction would have happened one way or another. Things could not have continued as they were. Just a matter of form it took. Since we don't ever have the vision or will to manage such things while they're happening and other than as crises, very likely it would have just crashed in another way.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rule number one Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> They bought a townhouse and lived in it. When job
> and family changes led them to move, they rented
> out the townhouse to cover that outflow and moved
> to a larger and more conveniently located home.
> This is garden variety American family history,
> not some sort of speculative whirlwind.
>
> Like the vast majority of native-born Americans,
> these one-time immigrants were not financially
> sophisticated and relied on the advice of friends
> and associates whom they took to be more
> knowledgeable than they were. This is again
> absolutely mainstream American behavior. Neither
> these people not the millions of others who shared
> their fate deserved what the crooks and shysters
> on Wall Street and in Washington let plop onto
> their heads.

You are partly right. Yes, there were a lot reckless and greedy people who gambled and lost. But there were also a significant knowledgeable majority that was more fiscally prudent.

During the height of the housing boom of the 2000s, I still remember my wife and I shaking our heads in dismay at a Washington Post article about the sudden wealth people were finding themselves wallowing in. One quote in particular we found horrifying - a couple defending using their home equity as an "ATM" and saying "everyone" was doing it.

We knew - as did anyone with common sense - that the housing bubble was going to burst. Did we touch our substantial home equity? No. Did we move up to a larger and more expensive home? No. Sorry, I have no sympathy other than to say I don't wish anyone ill and I'm sorry they made poor choices. But to blame the government or Bush for their plight is asinine.

One thing that struck me in this family's story is how quickly they adopted the American entitlement mentality. These were people who grew up in Africa where, I would assume in most cases, people do not expect to be rewarded for stupid choices or bailed out when they made them. Imagine the immigrants of Ellis Island coming here and almost immediately buying a house. That didnt happen. It took a generation or more of hard work in most cases to aspire to that type of luxury. I don't know if this couple's perspective is limited to them, or if it represents the general mindset of newly arrived immigrants. In any case, it's an interesting phenomena.

Are their kids getting public school benefits in addition to the parents not paying their mortgage on a six-figure salary? Cha Ching. $$$$$$$$$$$

and then there are the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wrong. After Jeffords became an Independent, the
> Senate was controlled by a Democrats for a time.

Stupid dork-fuck. A procedural power-sharing agreement was worked out in the Senate for the time during which the Senate was evenly divided at 50-50. As any tie votes would have been be decided by the vote of VP Cheney, there was no change in actual power.

> Further, the Democrats took over both chambers in
> January 2007 which was BEFORE the crisis fully
> unfolded.

Bwahahahaha! What an asswipe-level fucking stooge. The credit crisis was a done deal already in mid-2006. The horses were out of the barn. There was no turning back. All those interest rate triggers were going to continue to go off, all those weak loans were going to continue to default, and some sort of crisis was going to occur. Goobers and assfucks should probably just shut the fuck up rather than spew the mindless babble they've had stuffed into their tiny little non-functional brains by right-wing excusifiers, apologizers, and propagandists. That would mean you, by the way, you mindless fucking asshole.

> For years, President Bush and his Administration
> not only warned of the systemic consequences of
> failure to reform GSEs but also put forward
> thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either
> Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such
> difficulties.

Worthless manufactured bullshit, as any not totally clueless dumbass would have known. Congress repeatedly crafted GSE-reform legislation that focused on legitimate safety and soundness issues, and Bush routinely killed them. Bush's only actual plan for the GSE's -- which were not actually a problem -- was to run them out of business and "privatize the mission" by turning big chunks of profitable market share over to his pals on Wall Street -- the people who ACTUALLY WERE the problem. First he tried to set up a new "czar" in Treasury who could overrule the officers of the GSE's. That effort failed despite Republican majorities in Congress. Then he tried to place draconian caps on the levels of assets the GSE's could hold in their own portfolios. That effort died specifically because Senate Republicans would not vote for it. Then Bush got his henchmen at OFHEO and the SEC to discover accounting anomalies versus updated FASB requirements, even though the accounts had been reviewed and approved by HUD in advance. That led to a need to restate income, and that did indeed open the door for Wall Street to seize more of the GSE's market share and thereby hasten the onset of the credit crisis and resulting Great Recession.

> In fact, it was Congress that flatly rejected
> President Bush's call to reform the GSEs. Over
> the years, the President's repeated attempts to
> reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative
> maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there
> were problems with the GSEs.

Hey fuck-stick! Was this and the rest of your full of bullshit post simply copied verbatim from the White House's desperately manufactured CYA Press release of October 9, 2008? Why yes it was, you worthless piece of shit right-wing pig-prick. Why don't you just go fuck your worthless self, you dishonest cretin little shit-stain asshole turd-boy.

> But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of your
> well crafted and oft regurgitated talking points!

Once again, go fuck yourself, you pathetically hapless and ignorant little slime-fuck. You are nothing but a mindless right-wing wind-up toy. No redeeming social value at all. Fall over and die, asshole.

Why Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why did these stupid bongos buy a house they could
> not afford?

Why did you post nearly 300 lines of text when this was all you had to say?

.
Attachments:

.
Attachments:

oh i beleive you. you came to the right place trying to sell that story.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and then there are the facts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wrong. After Jeffords became an Independent,
> the
> > Senate was controlled by a Democrats for a time.
>
>
> Stupid dork-fuck. A procedural power-sharing
> agreement was worked out in the Senate for the
> time during which the Senate was evenly divided at
> 50-50. As any tie votes would have been be
> decided by the vote of VP Cheney, there was no
> change in actual power.
>
> > Further, the Democrats took over both chambers
> in
> > January 2007 which was BEFORE the crisis fully
> > unfolded.
>
> Bwahahahaha! What an asswipe-level fucking
> stooge. The credit crisis was a done deal already
> in mid-2006. The horses were out of the barn.
> There was no turning back. All those interest
> rate triggers were going to continue to go off,
> all those weak loans were going to continue to
> default, and some sort of crisis was going to
> occur. Goobers and assfucks should probably just
> shut the fuck up rather than spew the mindless
> babble they've had stuffed into their tiny little
> non-functional brains by right-wing excusifiers,
> apologizers, and propagandists. That would mean
> you, by the way, you mindless fucking asshole.
>
> > For years, President Bush and his
> Administration
> > not only warned of the systemic consequences of
> > failure to reform GSEs but also put forward
> > thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either
> > Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such
> > difficulties.
>
> Worthless manufactured bullshit, as any not
> totally clueless dumbass would have known.
> Congress repeatedly crafted GSE-reform legislation
> that focused on legitimate safety and soundness
> issues, and Bush routinely killed them. Bush's
> only actual plan for the GSE's -- which were not
> actually a problem -- was to run them out of
> business and "privatize the mission" by turning
> big chunks of profitable market share over to his
> pals on Wall Street -- the people who ACTUALLY
> WERE the problem. First he tried to set up a new
> "czar" in Treasury who could overrule the officers
> of the GSE's. That effort failed despite
> Republican majorities in Congress. Then he tried
> to place draconian caps on the levels of assets
> the GSE's could hold in their own portfolios.
> That effort died specifically because Senate
> Republicans would not vote for it. Then Bush got
> his henchmen at OFHEO and the SEC to discover
> accounting anomalies versus updated FASB
> requirements, even though the accounts had been
> reviewed and approved by HUD in advance. That led
> to a need to restate income, and that did indeed
> open the door for Wall Street to seize more of the
> GSE's market share and thereby hasten the onset of
> the credit crisis and resulting Great Recession.
>
>
> > In fact, it was Congress that flatly rejected
> > President Bush's call to reform the GSEs. Over
>
> > the years, the President's repeated attempts to
>
> > reform the supervision of these entities were
> thwarted by the legislative
> > maneuvering of those who emphatically denied
> there
> > were problems with the GSEs.
>
> Hey fuck-stick! Was this and the rest of your
> full of bullshit post simply copied verbatim from
> the White House's desperately manufactured CYA
> Press release of October 9, 2008? Why yes it was,
> you worthless piece of shit right-wing pig-prick.
> Why don't you just go fuck your worthless self,
> you dishonest cretin little shit-stain asshole
> turd-boy.
>
> > But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of
> your
> > well crafted and oft regurgitated talking
> points!
>
> Once again, go fuck yourself, you pathetically
> hapless and ignorant little slime-fuck. You are
> nothing but a mindless right-wing wind-up toy. No
> redeeming social value at all. Fall over and die,
> asshole.


TRANSLATION: "Shit, someone posted some actual facts that were sourced. All I'm left with is unsourced bullshit and name calling because I can't refute a single thing said."

Yup, that about sums it up.

mVvdV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not true. That may have been the proximate cause for
> the way in which the crash event itself happened and
> it drove things in the later stages, but it wasn't
> the underlying root cause. The price/asset bubble
> was apparent long before the bulk of that even
> started. There were many other more fundamental
> contributing factors. Ultimately, the necessary
> correction would have happened one way or another.
> Things could not have continued as they were. Just
> a matter of form it took. Since we don't ever have
> the vision or will to manage such things while they're
> happening and other than as crises, very likely it
> would have just crashed in another way.

Do you usually get by with hot air such a this where you are? You would get laughed at a lot for it in my world. What is a price/asset bubble? What were some of these many other more fundamental contributing factors? There's a long and deep history behind and around every noteworthy event, but the Cliff Notes version of it in this case is exactly as I have sketched it out.

In the early years of Wall Street's bonus and profit earning escapades, everything went well. People were moving into new homes at terms they could afford, and there were lavish parties being thrown in lower Manhattan. But then the supply of qualified borrowers began to dry up. Everyone who wanted or needed a cheap new mortgage already had one. The game was over, but Wall Street and their broker and other allies refused to quit playing. They simply bribed appraisers, ramped up the arm-twisting of less and less qualified buyers, and slid the resulting securitized slop past bond raters by packing it all in ever more inscrutable packages. They knew what they were doing. They knew the underlying loans were going to fail. They chose to keep making their huge profits and bonuses anyway. "I won't be here, you won't be here. It will all be somebody else's problem." That became the watchword of Wall Street. They didn't realize at the time the degree to which their work was going to blow back in their own faces.

Eventually, the level of poison dumped into the well exceeded system tolerances, and the system began to fall apart. The credit crisis could still have been contained within the financial sector in 2007, but it would have required massive public resources and there was no popular will for it. The path forward from there was pretty apparent. A slow bleed out into the Main Street economy and eventual ruin. Bush hoped that maybe he could get out of town before all those other shoes began to fall, but he didn't quite make it.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Stupid dork-fuck. A procedural power-sharing
> agreement was worked out in the Senate for the
> time during which the Senate was evenly divided at
> 50-50. As any tie votes would have been be
> decided by the vote of VP Cheney, there was no
> change in actual power.

On May 24, 2001, Senator James Jeffords of Vermont announced his switch from Republican to Independent status, effective June 6, 2001. Jeffords announced that he would caucus with the Democrats, giving the Democrats a one-seat advantage, changing control of the Senate from the Republicans back to the Democrats. Senator Thomas A. Daschle again became majority leader on June 6, 2001.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Stupid dork-fuck.
> Bwahahahaha! What an asswipe-level fucking
> stooge.
> Goobers and assfucks should probably just
> shut the fuck up rather than spew the mindless
> babble they've had stuffed into their tiny little
> non-functional brains by right-wing excusifiers,
> apologizers, and propagandists. That would mean
> you, by the way, you mindless fucking asshole.
> Worthless manufactured bullshit, as any not
> totally clueless dumbass would have known.
> Hey fuck-stick! Was this and the rest of your
> full of bullshit post
> Once again, go fuck yourself, you pathetically
> hapless and ignorant little slime-fuck. You are
> nothing but a mindless right-wing wind-up toy. No
> redeeming social value at all. Fall over and die,
> asshole.


Is Gerry posting anon today? Or are there really two people that violent, stupid and devoid of self control posting on FFXU? Or are all lefties that way? The spit-flying hatred, lack of shame, decorum and self-control, the violent animus - it all speaks of Gerry. But perhaps this is typical of the brutishly propagandized left.

Consider the similarities to Gerry:

I hate fucking Republicans so bad now its unbelievable. I hope there are more Americans like me that retain an accurate timeline of history. I cant stand these people.

Boy did that sweep in Virginia feel so good now. I just want to beat these fucking corrupt, inept, racist shit bag Republicans again and again. I want their supporters to make stupid ass threads about little meaningless things like a vote here or a bill there.

I want to continue to impose our will and crush them politically into a fine dust that one stiff breeze would dissipate. DemocRATS run your state and federal governments now you dirty, back woods, southern, ignorant, useless, moronic redneck ass motherfucker. All you filthy RATS have left are your gerrymandered majorities, name a popular vote you've won.

Just like filthy rats, Republicans rely on their gerrymandered rat holes to hid and infest and sabotage in retreat from rejection by the American people.

You will fail, people like you have always failed. Especially in America. You and your rat hole kin are nothing new. This country has a history of shoving a big broom stick up your stupid ass, slave to rich evil special interests and moving right along for the betterment of this country.

You name it workers rights, enviromental protections, food and medicine regulation. Do you know shit heads like you existed for all those things. Although America was a much better place at one time than likes of you at one time. These people would be considered insane just 15 years ago.

Do you think things will just go back to uninsured Americans remaining uninsured with inaction? Do you, you filthy fucking rabid diseased dog. If that is your objective you deserve to die a slow and painful death. That is longer a possibility. We're going to shove the ACA up your fucking ass's and you will learn to deal with the problems ordinary Americans face or be exposed for not having the capacity to.

t really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mVvdV Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Not true. That may have been the proximate cause
> for
> > the way in which the crash event itself happened
> and
> > it drove things in the later stages, but it
> wasn't
> > the underlying root cause. The price/asset
> bubble
> > was apparent long before the bulk of that even
> > started. There were many other more
> fundamental
> > contributing factors. Ultimately, the
> necessary
> > correction would have happened one way or
> another.
> > Things could not have continued as they were.
> Just
> > a matter of form it took. Since we don't ever
> have
> > the vision or will to manage such things while
> they're
> > happening and other than as crises, very likely
> it
> > would have just crashed in another way.
>
> Do you usually get by with hot air such a this
> where you are? You would get laughed at a lot for
> it in my world. What is a price/asset bubble?
> What were some of these many other more
> fundamental contributing factors? There's a long
> and deep history behind and around every
> noteworthy event, but the Cliff Notes version of
> it in this case is exactly as I have sketched it
> out.
>
> In the early years of Wall Street's bonus and
> profit earning escapades, everything went well.
> People were moving into new homes at terms they
> could afford, and there were lavish parties being
> thrown in lower Manhattan. But then the supply of
> qualified borrowers began to dry up. Everyone who
> wanted or needed a cheap new mortgage already had
> one. The game was over, but Wall Street and their
> broker and other allies refused to quit playing.
> They simply bribed appraisers, ramped up the
> arm-twisting of less and less qualified buyers,
> and slid the resulting securitized slop past bond
> raters by packing it all in ever more inscrutable
> packages. They knew what they were doing. They
> knew the underlying loans were going to fail.
> They chose to keep making their huge profits and
> bonuses anyway. "I won't be here, you won't be
> here. It will all be somebody else's problem."
> That became the watchword of Wall Street. They
> didn't realize at the time the degree to which
> their work was going to blow back in their own
> faces.
>
> Eventually, the level of poison dumped into the
> well exceeded system tolerances, and the system
> began to fall apart. The credit crisis could
> still have been contained within the financial
> sector in 2007, but it would have required massive
> public resources and there was no popular will for
> it. The path forward from there was pretty
> apparent. A slow bleed out into the Main Street
> economy and eventual ruin. Bush hoped that maybe
> he could get out of town before all those other
> shoes began to fall, but he didn't quite make it.


Your one-sided take just shows you for the limited, ignorant, ultra-partisan fucktard that you are.

Let's see, the lending abuses occurred with a republican potus. The refusal to prosecute many of the abusers occurred with a democrat potus. They are so different, but in many ways the same.

commonsense Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are partly right. Yes, there were a lot
> reckless and greedy people who gambled and lost.

What I said was that millions of perfectly ordinary Americans who were doing what had always been all the right things had their lives messed over by the remote villainy of Wall Streeters and the utter malfeasance of laissez-faire regulators in Washington.

> But there were also a significant knowledgeable
> majority that was more fiscally prudent.

Didn't matter. Millions of them were among the screwed as well. Lost their jobs. Lost their savings. Lost their houses. For no reason but that Bush let it all happen.

> During the height of the housing boom of the
> 2000s, I still remember my wife and I shaking our
> heads in dismay at a Washington Post article about
> the sudden wealth people were finding themselves
> wallowing in. One quote in particular we found
> horrifying - a couple defending using their home
> equity as an "ATM" and saying "everyone" was doing
> it.

So you just let you home equity sit out there like a mirage in the desert?

> We knew - as did anyone with common sense - that
> the housing bubble was going to burst. Did we
> touch our substantial home equity? No. Did we
> move up to a larger and more expensive home? No.
> Sorry, I have no sympathy other than to say I
> don't wish anyone ill and I'm sorry they made poor
> choices. But to blame the government or Bush for
> their plight is asinine.

At the least -- and assuming you had a pre-2000 mortgage -- you should have refinanced three times and booked those imaginary gains into real gains. If you didn't, you really messed up. Chance of a lifetime just blew right by you.

and then there are the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TRANSLATION: "Shit, someone posted some actual
> facts that were sourced. All I'm left with is
> unsourced bullshit and name calling because I
> can't refute a single thing said."
Yup, that about sums it up.

Shove it up your pathetic worthless goober ass, you miserable little pinhead piece of subhuman sewage. Knowing less than nothing on your own, you were caught red-handed in a wanton copy-and-paste from one of Bush's hired liars at just the point in time when the economy was accelerating into its worst collapse since the Great Depression. And the only reason it was sourced at all was that I pulled back the curtain on your pathetic skank-faced dickless shamming ass-reamed little ploy. You are a worthless piece of vermin trash, so get your stinking shit-stained self out of here. Fucking worthless asstard.

Knower of History Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On May 24, 2001, Senator James Jeffords of Vermont
> announced his switch from Republican to
> Independent status, effective June 6, 2001.
> Jeffords announced that he would caucus with the
> Democrats, giving the Democrats a one-seat
> advantage, changing control of the Senate from the
> Republicans back to the Democrats. Senator Thomas
> A. Daschle again became majority leader on June 6,
> 2001.

You're right. It was 50-50 before the Jeffords switch, not after. First mistake I've made this year. Probably the last one as well. No change in Barney Frank's MINORITY status from 1995 to 2007 of course, nor in the fact that Democrats were calling NONE of the shots during the genesis of the credit crisis.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and then there are the facts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TRANSLATION: "Shit, someone posted some actual
> > facts that were sourced. All I'm left with is
> > unsourced bullshit and name calling because I
> > can't refute a single thing said."
> Yup, that about sums it up.
>
> Shove it up your pathetic worthless goober ass,
> you miserable little pinhead piece of subhuman
> sewage. Knowing less than nothing on your own,
> you were caught red-handed in a wanton
> copy-and-paste from one of Bush's hired liars at
> just the point in time when the economy was
> accelerating into its worst collapse since the
> Great Depression. And the only reason it was
> sourced at all was that I pulled back the curtain
> on your pathetic skank-faced dickless shamming
> ass-reamed little ploy. You are a worthless piece
> of vermin trash, so get your stinking shit-stained
> self out of here. Fucking worthless asstard.


TRANSLATION: "My lies are unsourced and not substantiated by any fact whatsoever. I live in my little partisan world and can't think for myself. I'll even lie about who controlled the Senate from June 2001 until Senator Wellstone's untimely death in October 2002. In short, I ain't got shit."

gerry??????????? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is Gerry posting anon today? Or are there really
> two people that violent, stupid and devoid of self
> control posting on FFXU? Or are all lefties that
> way? The spit-flying hatred, lack of shame,
> decorum and self-control, the violent animus - it
> all speaks of Gerry. But perhaps this is typical
> of the brutishly propagandized left.

Go fuck yourself, asshole. I'm not Gerry and none of your multiple personalities could earn its way out of a mental home.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> commonsense Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You are partly right. Yes, there were a lot
> > reckless and greedy people who gambled and lost.
>
>
> What I said was that millions of perfectly
> ordinary Americans who were doing what had always
> been all the right things had their lives messed
> over by the remote villainy of Wall Streeters and
> the utter malfeasance of laissez-faire regulators
> in Washington.


BS. They were playing right along and taking advantage of leverage themselves. Over-extending themselves, playing the trend, and accessing and spending pseudo-value in their property far beyond "what had always been the right things."

>
> > But there were also a significant knowledgeable
> > majority that was more fiscally prudent.
>
> Didn't matter. Millions of them were among the
> screwed as well. Lost their jobs. Lost their
> savings. Lost their houses. For no reason but
> that Bush let it all happen.
>
> > During the height of the housing boom of the
> > 2000s, I still remember my wife and I shaking
> our
> > heads in dismay at a Washington Post article
> about
> > the sudden wealth people were finding
> themselves
> > wallowing in. One quote in particular we found
> > horrifying - a couple defending using their
> home
> > equity as an "ATM" and saying "everyone" was
> doing
> > it.
>
> So you just let you home equity sit out there like
> a mirage in the desert?


Smartly so for most typical people. It's the vast majority of their savings.

>
> > We knew - as did anyone with common sense -
> that
> > the housing bubble was going to burst. Did we
> > touch our substantial home equity? No. Did we
> > move up to a larger and more expensive home?
> No.
> > Sorry, I have no sympathy other than to say I
> > don't wish anyone ill and I'm sorry they made
> poor
> > choices. But to blame the government or Bush
> for
> > their plight is asinine.
>
> At the least -- and assuming you had a pre-2000
> mortgage -- you should have refinanced three times
> and booked those imaginary gains into real gains.
> If you didn't, you really messed up. Chance of a
> lifetime just blew right by you.


You can refinance without draining all of your equity. In fact, that's how most used to be done. Doing that's exactly how many ended up underwater.

Blinders on the Jackass Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your one-sided take just shows you for the
> limited, ignorant, ultra-partisan fucktard that
> you are.

That's a laugh. You slime-fucks do nothing but suck back the FOX News swill. You have no knowledge AT ALL of the actual history behind the credit crisis and Great Recession. You couldn't spell fucking MBS if we gave you the first two letters.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Blinders on the Jackass Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Your one-sided take just shows you for the
> > limited, ignorant, ultra-partisan fucktard that
> > you are.
>
> That's a laugh. You slime-fucks do nothing but
> suck back the FOX News swill. You have no
> knowledge AT ALL of the actual history behind the
> credit crisis and Great Recession. You couldn't
> spell fucking MBS if we gave you the first two
> letters.


Brays the equal ass in the mirror.

It really is Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> gerry??????????? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is Gerry posting anon today? Or are there
> really
> > two people that violent, stupid and devoid of
> self
> > control posting on FFXU? Or are all lefties
> that
> > way? The spit-flying hatred, lack of shame,
> > decorum and self-control, the violent animus -
> it
> > all speaks of Gerry. But perhaps this is
> typical
> > of the brutishly propagandized left.
>
> Go fuck yourself, asshole. I'm not Gerry and none
> of your multiple personalities could earn its way
> out of a mental home.


Oh, this is hilarious coming from Sybil herself!

guilt all around Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's see, the lending abuses occurred with a
> republican potus. The refusal to prosecute many of
> the abusers occurred with a democrat potus. They
> are so different, but in many ways the same.

Dude, this question should have been resolved in your mind a long long time ago. First, there is no point in prosecuting tiny underlings. Second, it's very difficult to build a criminal case that's "beyond reasonable doubt" against higher-ups you can't connect to the commission of any actual criminal act. If this were China, probably all of the heads of the Big Five investment banks would have been executed already. But we do things differently here. Most people think that's a good thing.

But if you think there is no difference between Bush and Obama, then there is simply no hope for you at all. Go sign yourself up to be put into protective custody.

and the there are facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TRANSLATION: "My lies are unsourced and not
> substantiated by any fact whatsoever. I live in
> my little partisan world and can't think for
> myself. I'll even lie about who controlled the
> Senate from June 2001 until Senator Wellstone's
> untimely death in October 2002. In short, I ain't
> got shit."

Shove it up your worthless right-wing ass, you ignorant copy-and-paste douchebag donkey dick.

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and the there are facts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TRANSLATION: "My lies are unsourced and not
> > substantiated by any fact whatsoever. I live
> in
> > my little partisan world and can't think for
> > myself. I'll even lie about who controlled the
> > Senate from June 2001 until Senator Wellstone's
> > untimely death in October 2002. In short, I
> ain't
> > got shit."
>
> Shove it up your worthless right-wing ass, you
> ignorant copy-and-paste douchebag donkey dick.


TRANSLATION: "I'm a butthurt little bitch who got the piss beat out of me and now I'm just going to bitch and moan like a fucknut. Damn I hate facts!"

It really was Bush's fault Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knower of History Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > On May 24, 2001, Senator James Jeffords of
> Vermont
> > announced his switch from Republican to
> > Independent status, effective June 6, 2001.
> > Jeffords announced that he would caucus with
> the
> > Democrats, giving the Democrats a one-seat
> > advantage, changing control of the Senate from
> the
> > Republicans back to the Democrats. Senator
> Thomas
> > A. Daschle again became majority leader on June
> 6,
> > 2001.
>
> You're right.

No shit. You're the only one that plays fast and loose with the facts and history to the point of reinventing them altogether.

Those people who took out that loan are responsible.

They are stupid.

The were proud African at first now they are acting dumb nigger the super get over. Please save my poor ass.