Fairfax County General :
Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
1995hoo
()
Date: January 26, 2015 05:30PM
Couple of diagrams of some of the proposals for rebuilding I-66. You thought the work on the interchange with the Beltway was over....you thought wrong!
Beltway interchange alternative 2A (north, towards Tysons, is up):
http://www.transform66.org/documents/meetings/2015january/44_2A_I-495_1.pdf
Beltway interchange alternative 2B (north, towards Tysons, is up):
http://www.transform66.org/documents/meetings/2015january/77_2B_I-495_1.pdf
Route 28 interchange alternative 2A (north, towards Dulles Airport, is to the right):
http://www.transform66.org/documents/meetings/2015january/28_2A_Route_28.pdf
Route 28 interchange alternative 2B (north, towards Dulles Airport, is to the right):
http://www.transform66.org/documents/meetings/2015january/62_2B_Route_28.pdf
The full set of maps can be found on the page below by scrolling down to the italicized heading "Alternatives."
Enjoy visualizing the road construction ahead!
http://transform66.org/meetings/january_public_information_meetings_presentations.asp
Beltway interchange alternative 2A (north, towards Tysons, is up):
http://www.transform66.org/documents/meetings/2015january/44_2A_I-495_1.pdf
Beltway interchange alternative 2B (north, towards Tysons, is up):
http://www.transform66.org/documents/meetings/2015january/77_2B_I-495_1.pdf
Route 28 interchange alternative 2A (north, towards Dulles Airport, is to the right):
http://www.transform66.org/documents/meetings/2015january/28_2A_Route_28.pdf
Route 28 interchange alternative 2B (north, towards Dulles Airport, is to the right):
http://www.transform66.org/documents/meetings/2015january/62_2B_Route_28.pdf
The full set of maps can be found on the page below by scrolling down to the italicized heading "Alternatives."
Enjoy visualizing the road construction ahead!
http://transform66.org/meetings/january_public_information_meetings_presentations.asp
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
FRANK 1
()
Date: January 26, 2015 05:52PM
All we need are fewer people. Stop building townhouses and balance the federal budget.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
Tolled to hell
()
Date: January 27, 2015 03:23AM
Don't forget that VDOT will toll all these "improvements" to I-66 when it's all completed. The ridiculous part is that 66 will be tolled at rush hour only, but we all know how these toll roads get run and some people will get letters in the mail about them using 66 without an EZ Pass. This one is either gonna mess up the traffic pattern on 50 and 29 or it's gonna make people actually.... (gasp) move out of the 66 corridor. I'm betting on the first one though.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
1995hoo
()
Date: January 27, 2015 11:33AM
I realize this is probably too rationally thought-out a comment for this forum, but whatever....
I view I-66 as involving five pieces:
(a) The segment inside the Beltway
(b) The horrible inadequate segment from the Beltway to Fair Oaks
(c) The nice road from Fair Oaks to Gainesville that was rebuilt over the past 20 years
(d) The short segment from Gainesville to Haymarket now under construction
(e) Everything west of Haymarket to I-81, which is all rural Interstate with a 70-mph speed limit
VDOT has a few separate proposals on the table right now:
(1) They've announced they plan to restore HOV-3 on I-66 inside the Beltway in 2020 to replace the current HOV-2. Recall I-66 opened in December 1982 with peak-direction HOV-4, which was changed to HOV-3 in 1983 and to HOV-2 in 1995.
(2) Last week VDOT announced a proposal to make I-66 inside the Beltway a high-occupancy/toll (HO/T) roadway in both directions during rush hours only. Outside rush hours, it'd be open to all traffic (except trucks, consistent with current rules).
(3) They're already widening the road from Gainesville to Haymarket; they also plan to reconfigure the Haymarket interchange into a Diverging Diamond (a good move, it means you spend less time waiting at red lights).
(4) They're now proposing to rebuilt all of I-66 from the Beltway to Haymarket to have three general-purpose lanes and two HO/T lanes on each side.
It's #2 and #4 that raise the possible issues.
On #2, it seems to me the interesting point about the project inside the Beltway is that the tolling would apply only during rush hour. I think that's interesting because it means people who otherwise could not use the road will be able to do so. That is, assume the road is to be restricted to HOV-3 (because VDOT said it will be). If you allow toll-payers to use the road during HOV hours, all you're doing is selling excess capacity that would otherwise go to waste. That doesn't bother me at all. Tolling would be in BOTH directions during rush hour, whereas right now HOV applies only in the old-fashioned "peak direction" (to DC in the AM, from DC in the PM). But you know, the idea of the "reverse commute" doesn't make sense any more. There are a LOT of people going from Arlington to Tysons. However, imposing HOV-or-toll on the opposite direction is a huge change from what is now in place because in effect you are taking lanes now open to all people and restricting them during certain hours, which is similar to what was done on I-95's reversible lanes. It seems to me VDOT should wait to make a decision until they have a full year's worth of data on how the I-95 lanes' tolls affect traffic both in the "free" lanes AND on parallel Route 1. This matters because on I-66, the bailout traffic would be using primarily residential streets with schools and the like.
On project #4, I'm all for anything they can do to improve I-66 between the Beltway and Fair Oaks, especially if they can get rid of the horrible "shoulder lane" system. That road has to be one of the worst roads in this part of the country.
But further west, from Fair Oaks to Gainesville, the road is certainly congested but I'm not sure it needs a full reconstruction so soon after it was just rebuilt. The proposal, as I understand it, would give you three general-purpose lanes (no HOV, no tolls) and two barrier-separated HO/T lanes in each direction. Right now during rush hour you have three general-purpose lanes and an HOV lane that's not barrier-separated; outside rush hour, you have four lanes (I think the left lane may prohibit commercial vehicles). So it wouldn't necessarily be as huge a change as people think in terms of practical operations, but the period of reconstruction would be brutally painful. I'm not sure the benefit is worth the cost.
What I think would be good is if they could find some way to construct two express lanes in each direction (restrict them however you like: HOV, toll, HOV-or-toll, whatever) between the Beltway and just west of Route 50 at Fair Oaks. Provide NO exits and NO entrance points at all on that segment other than allowing eastbound express lane traffic to access both directions of the Beltway and to continue inbound on I-66; for westbound traffic, allow access from I-66 and from both directions of the Beltway. It seems to me this sort of thing might help move a lot of longer-distance traffic through a very messy area. (I suppose maybe there could be an intermediate exit for the Vienna Metro stop.)
I view I-66 as involving five pieces:
(a) The segment inside the Beltway
(b) The horrible inadequate segment from the Beltway to Fair Oaks
(c) The nice road from Fair Oaks to Gainesville that was rebuilt over the past 20 years
(d) The short segment from Gainesville to Haymarket now under construction
(e) Everything west of Haymarket to I-81, which is all rural Interstate with a 70-mph speed limit
VDOT has a few separate proposals on the table right now:
(1) They've announced they plan to restore HOV-3 on I-66 inside the Beltway in 2020 to replace the current HOV-2. Recall I-66 opened in December 1982 with peak-direction HOV-4, which was changed to HOV-3 in 1983 and to HOV-2 in 1995.
(2) Last week VDOT announced a proposal to make I-66 inside the Beltway a high-occupancy/toll (HO/T) roadway in both directions during rush hours only. Outside rush hours, it'd be open to all traffic (except trucks, consistent with current rules).
(3) They're already widening the road from Gainesville to Haymarket; they also plan to reconfigure the Haymarket interchange into a Diverging Diamond (a good move, it means you spend less time waiting at red lights).
(4) They're now proposing to rebuilt all of I-66 from the Beltway to Haymarket to have three general-purpose lanes and two HO/T lanes on each side.
It's #2 and #4 that raise the possible issues.
On #2, it seems to me the interesting point about the project inside the Beltway is that the tolling would apply only during rush hour. I think that's interesting because it means people who otherwise could not use the road will be able to do so. That is, assume the road is to be restricted to HOV-3 (because VDOT said it will be). If you allow toll-payers to use the road during HOV hours, all you're doing is selling excess capacity that would otherwise go to waste. That doesn't bother me at all. Tolling would be in BOTH directions during rush hour, whereas right now HOV applies only in the old-fashioned "peak direction" (to DC in the AM, from DC in the PM). But you know, the idea of the "reverse commute" doesn't make sense any more. There are a LOT of people going from Arlington to Tysons. However, imposing HOV-or-toll on the opposite direction is a huge change from what is now in place because in effect you are taking lanes now open to all people and restricting them during certain hours, which is similar to what was done on I-95's reversible lanes. It seems to me VDOT should wait to make a decision until they have a full year's worth of data on how the I-95 lanes' tolls affect traffic both in the "free" lanes AND on parallel Route 1. This matters because on I-66, the bailout traffic would be using primarily residential streets with schools and the like.
On project #4, I'm all for anything they can do to improve I-66 between the Beltway and Fair Oaks, especially if they can get rid of the horrible "shoulder lane" system. That road has to be one of the worst roads in this part of the country.
But further west, from Fair Oaks to Gainesville, the road is certainly congested but I'm not sure it needs a full reconstruction so soon after it was just rebuilt. The proposal, as I understand it, would give you three general-purpose lanes (no HOV, no tolls) and two barrier-separated HO/T lanes in each direction. Right now during rush hour you have three general-purpose lanes and an HOV lane that's not barrier-separated; outside rush hour, you have four lanes (I think the left lane may prohibit commercial vehicles). So it wouldn't necessarily be as huge a change as people think in terms of practical operations, but the period of reconstruction would be brutally painful. I'm not sure the benefit is worth the cost.
What I think would be good is if they could find some way to construct two express lanes in each direction (restrict them however you like: HOV, toll, HOV-or-toll, whatever) between the Beltway and just west of Route 50 at Fair Oaks. Provide NO exits and NO entrance points at all on that segment other than allowing eastbound express lane traffic to access both directions of the Beltway and to continue inbound on I-66; for westbound traffic, allow access from I-66 and from both directions of the Beltway. It seems to me this sort of thing might help move a lot of longer-distance traffic through a very messy area. (I suppose maybe there could be an intermediate exit for the Vienna Metro stop.)
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
gainesville sucks
()
Date: January 27, 2015 01:02PM
No route 50 exit? You want an exclusive highway to Gainesville? No one cares about Gainesville. 50 is where the taxpayers are. Gainesville can go to hell.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
1995hoo
()
Date: January 27, 2015 01:31PM
gainesville sucks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No route 50 exit? You want an exclusive highway to
> Gainesville? No one cares about Gainesville. 50 is
> where the taxpayers are. Gainesville can go to
> hell.
If you're referring to my final paragraph, the existing interchange at the Fairfax County Parkway would provide the connection for express traffic to Routes 50 and 29; during rush hour, the HOV ramp at Monument Drive would provide an additional option.
-------------------------------------------------------
> No route 50 exit? You want an exclusive highway to
> Gainesville? No one cares about Gainesville. 50 is
> where the taxpayers are. Gainesville can go to
> hell.
If you're referring to my final paragraph, the existing interchange at the Fairfax County Parkway would provide the connection for express traffic to Routes 50 and 29; during rush hour, the HOV ramp at Monument Drive would provide an additional option.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
wWmp7
()
Date: January 27, 2015 06:50PM
Not sure how they're gonna add two hot lanes to each side between the beltway and Haymarket. If you drive down 66 from the beltway to Fair Lakes, a lot of houses and businesses are right up against the road. This includes tall office buildings. Are they going to tear them all down?
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
Dr. Memory
()
Date: January 27, 2015 08:01PM
Saturation of 66 due to runaway home construction around Haymarket. To solve saturation problem, construct more lanes on 66, enabling continued housing construction around Haymarket, and beyond.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
AngryWhiteMale
()
Date: January 27, 2015 10:57PM
I don't know how people pay for the greenway, toll road, and hot lanes both ways.
It costs them $40 just to show up to work.
I guess eventually us mortals will be forced to use slow unreliable deadly public transportation. The cost savings by not paying tolls is offset by your increased commute time and the body odor of a nose-deaf native of public transportation.
It trickles down because the thugs get a better pool of victims.
It costs them $40 just to show up to work.
I guess eventually us mortals will be forced to use slow unreliable deadly public transportation. The cost savings by not paying tolls is offset by your increased commute time and the body odor of a nose-deaf native of public transportation.
It trickles down because the thugs get a better pool of victims.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
Vertically Challenged
()
Date: January 28, 2015 01:10AM
The only way to build more capacity would be to go up.
We could have 2 or more levels of roadway elevated above the original grade.
Perhaps each level would be for different classes of drivers, with trucks, asians and hispanics being restricted to the lowest level. BMW, Benz and Audi only on top with a higher speed limit to boot.
We could have 2 or more levels of roadway elevated above the original grade.
Perhaps each level would be for different classes of drivers, with trucks, asians and hispanics being restricted to the lowest level. BMW, Benz and Audi only on top with a higher speed limit to boot.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
MWUVY
()
Date: January 28, 2015 05:41PM
when and where were the jobs for that advertised and please prove it ?
all spics and niggas. i'm unsure exactly what on that contract. but i know they are not handing out jobs by application
all over this area for 20 or 30 years almost %100 dark road workers
and i know in some areas the "contracts" are out of OHIO or somethign (aka they never advertised the jobs and that is their deniability for)
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
PXFte
()
Date: January 28, 2015 05:44PM
i've tried to get hundreds of such jobs in the area
if they are advertised and you call they always say no.
if you send a resume they dont get back to you : and you find an illegal or a political family kid getting overpaid
not every time or mostly ...
for decades straight they will do it
for decades i can wait. fuckign sue and get your ass in prison easier.
if they are advertised and you call they always say no.
if you send a resume they dont get back to you : and you find an illegal or a political family kid getting overpaid
not every time or mostly ...
for decades straight they will do it
for decades i can wait. fuckign sue and get your ass in prison easier.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
Put tolls on 66
()
Date: January 29, 2015 10:20PM
Tolls on 66 should pay for any improvements to it outside the beltway. You idiots chose to live out there...if you want a better commute then pay for it yourselves or move inside the beltway.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
Metro west orange line too
()
Date: January 29, 2015 11:16PM
OK, add lanes, where possible. Open Monument exit ON (& OFF works already). Same should happen for the exit 1 mile-further west Sidenstricker(street name?). Don't charge express fees for the elite-only use, this may take away future Orange-line west extension areas! But more importantly..EXTEND THE ORANGE LINE WEST! This has to be on the plate NOW & Will help get vehicles off I-66.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
No such luck
()
Date: January 30, 2015 08:19AM
Once the Silver Line is done, the next step for Metro will be expanding capacity through downtown DC. Extensions from Vienna and Springfield will remain a long way off.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
0tter
()
Date: January 30, 2015 08:21AM
Sidenstricker is funny. It's Stringfellow and I agree. Open them both up.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
1995hoo
()
Date: January 30, 2015 09:09AM
No such luck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once the Silver Line is done, the next step for
> Metro will be expanding capacity through downtown
> DC. Extensions from Vienna and Springfield will
> remain a long way off.
That's how it should be because extensions to the outer system won't help solve the crowding problems and the annoying shared-track design that results in delays. Unless you separate the trains downtown, an extension just dumps more people into the already-overcrowded system core.
The shared tracks, meaning for example how the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines all share the same two tracks from Rosslyn to east of Stadium-Armory, are a disaster because a single train with a problem in the wrong place at the wrong time causes delays that ripple across the system since the other lines can't get past. Only the Red Line is isolated from this (because it no longer shares tracks with any other line), but it has plenty of its own problems.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once the Silver Line is done, the next step for
> Metro will be expanding capacity through downtown
> DC. Extensions from Vienna and Springfield will
> remain a long way off.
That's how it should be because extensions to the outer system won't help solve the crowding problems and the annoying shared-track design that results in delays. Unless you separate the trains downtown, an extension just dumps more people into the already-overcrowded system core.
The shared tracks, meaning for example how the Blue, Orange, and Silver lines all share the same two tracks from Rosslyn to east of Stadium-Armory, are a disaster because a single train with a problem in the wrong place at the wrong time causes delays that ripple across the system since the other lines can't get past. Only the Red Line is isolated from this (because it no longer shares tracks with any other line), but it has plenty of its own problems.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
1995hoo
()
Date: January 30, 2015 09:13AM
0tter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sidenstricker is funny. It's Stringfellow and I
> agree. Open them both up.
They'd have to reconfigure them to use a hard center barrier before the Feds will allow that. It's for safety reasons. Right now both those ramps simply use a double yellow line to separate the lanes. Federal regulations prohibit operating the ramps on a two-way basis when a line is the only separator because of what would happen if there were a head-on collision when one car is coming off the Interstate at 55 mph or more. Thus, VDOT's only allowed to operate those ramps in one direction at any given time.
They'd also need a better barrier where those ramps meet/separate from I-66 because right now there's a very large median gap there, I assume to allow space for HOV enforcement.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sidenstricker is funny. It's Stringfellow and I
> agree. Open them both up.
They'd have to reconfigure them to use a hard center barrier before the Feds will allow that. It's for safety reasons. Right now both those ramps simply use a double yellow line to separate the lanes. Federal regulations prohibit operating the ramps on a two-way basis when a line is the only separator because of what would happen if there were a head-on collision when one car is coming off the Interstate at 55 mph or more. Thus, VDOT's only allowed to operate those ramps in one direction at any given time.
They'd also need a better barrier where those ramps meet/separate from I-66 because right now there's a very large median gap there, I assume to allow space for HOV enforcement.
Re: I-66 reconstruction
Posted by:
sTRINGFELLOWS
()
Date: January 30, 2015 06:07PM
1995HOO. OK sounds reasonable for safety issues. But vehicles separated by double yellow lines pass by each other at 110+ mph (55mph+each approaching)everywhere. just a few feet separate head-on collision all over the commonwealth & USA now. True about the DC metro internal line expansion. But look at the metro map & see how many vectors outside the beltway are covered. Other than the Silverline, not much in VA western vectors. Why stop in Vienna/Nutley. That is where I-66 is a parking lot on & off peak rush hour traffic hours. Open the "red X" lanes when the traffic needs it not during "Set times" Live Monitors can see this, manned monitors or automatic reactive sensor equipment. I-66 inside the beltway must expand to 3 or more lanes (Sorry Arlingtonians, we know you hate the idea), But its not all about Arl. its about moving traffic better at all points DMV. This can be done within existing easements & sound walls FYI.