Do they feel a sense of accomplishment by doing that?
Like they have finally made it or something?

For me personally if I were to travel here from thousands of miles away, that would be the last thing on my priority list but that's just me.

Pics or it didnt happen.

Jose from San Jose CA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do they feel a sense of accomplishment by doing that?
> Like they have finally made it or something?
>
> For me personally if I were to travel here from
> thousands of miles away, that would be the last
> thing on my priority list but that's just me.

Al Jazeera America did a show last year called "Borderland".l Go watch it and learn something. There's no percentage in being asshat-stupid.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jose from San Jose CA Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Do they feel a sense of accomplishment by doing
> that?
> > Like they have finally made it or something?
> >
> > For me personally if I were to travel here from
> > thousands of miles away, that would be the last
> > thing on my priority list but that's just me.
>
> Al Jazeera America did a show last year called
> "Borderland".l Go watch it and learn something.
> There's no percentage in being asshat-stupid.

All those amigos in the picture are working for Al-Qaeda?

A lot of these fuckers are pretty hard workers who will break their backs for cheap, but if they are illegal and hanging out on the streets, they need to go.
Attachments:

What actually needs to happen is that they all be legalized and given green cards so they can work and live and pay taxes on the same basis as everyone else.

HOLY SHIT!!!!!

At least the metal heads who used to hang out at 7 Eleven were there to talk about music, hot chicks and grab some booze but somebody needs to call INS on those amigos.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What actually needs to happen is that they all be
> legalized and given green cards so they can work
> and live and pay taxes on the same basis as
> everyone else.

If they pay taxes they are worthless to those who hire them, they are only a bang for the buck when they are working under the table.

Catch-22 for ya.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God, are you dumb! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What actually needs to happen is that they all
> be
> > legalized and given green cards so they can
> work
> > and live and pay taxes on the same basis as
> > everyone else.
>
> If they pay taxes they are worthless to those who
> hire them, they are only a bang for the buck when
> they are working under the table.
>
> Catch-22 for ya.

So in other words the whites who hire them do not want for them to become legal?

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lot of these fuckers are pretty hard workers who
> will break their backs for cheap, but if they are
> illegal and hanging out on the streets, they need
> to go.


Every notice that every one of them has a smart phone?

And most of them walk around talking on it 24x7.

How the fuck do they do that?

Must be some kind of underground scheme involved.

YT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > God, are you dumb! Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > What actually needs to happen is that they
> all
> > be
> > > legalized and given green cards so they can
> > work
> > > and live and pay taxes on the same basis as
> > > everyone else.
> >
> > If they pay taxes they are worthless to those
> who
> > hire them, they are only a bang for the buck
> when
> > they are working under the table.
> >
> > Catch-22 for ya.
>
> So in other words the whites who hire them do not
> want for them to become legal?


They don't want to pay them decent wages is more accurate.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> They don't want to pay them decent wages is more
> accurate.


Correct.

Which is why they hire them over other low-end legal US workers.

So the white man is to blame for all this shit?

YT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So the white man is to blame for all this shit?


The problem is two-fold

People who need cheap labor (some white, but others too) like the never ending supply of desperate centro americanos.

White liberals love the idea of enlisting these people as Democrat voters, after all, all suffering in their view is because of whitey,colonialism, capitalism or sexism. All suffering.

If you make all the illegals legal, you've priced them out of what the market can pay. They can afford to work for less because of lower overhead (putting 3 and 4x the tenants in local apartments) and many are broke and desperate.

Meanwhile D.C has an alarming unemployment rate for young blacks.


Ironic?

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they pay taxes they are worthless to those who
> hire them, they are only a bang for the buck when
> they are working under the table. Catch-22 for ya.

Most illegals pay the same taxes you do. Almost none of them work under the table because it creates unwanted risk and exposure for the employer. Are there crooked fly-by-night sub-sub-sub-contractors out there who try to make a short-term buck by keeping everything in the shadows? Sure. Are they the actual leaders of the pack? Nope, not at all.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If they pay taxes they are worthless to those
> who
> > hire them, they are only a bang for the buck
> when
> > they are working under the table. Catch-22 for
> ya.
>
> Most illegals pay the same taxes you do. Almost
> none of them work under the table because it
> creates unwanted risk and exposure for the
> employer. Are there crooked fly-by-night
> sub-sub-sub-contractors out there who try to make
> a short-term buck by keeping everything in the
> shadows? Sure. Are they the actual leaders of
> the pack? Nope, not at all.

Yeah your Culmore SevLev boys are paying taxes?

Get your head out of your fucking asshole, fool.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If they pay taxes they are worthless to those
> who
> > hire them, they are only a bang for the buck
> when
> > they are working under the table. Catch-22 for
> ya.
>
> Most illegals pay the same taxes you do. Almost
> none of them work under the table because it
> creates unwanted risk and exposure for the
> employer. Are there crooked fly-by-night
> sub-sub-sub-contractors out there who try to make
> a short-term buck by keeping everything in the
> shadows? Sure. Are they the actual leaders of
> the pack? Nope, not at all.


^ Bullshit.

And everyone knows it.

Libturds will say- "Oh they all pay gas tax and sales tax!"

They are not all terrible people, but their existence is based on the underground economy.

If you don't understand that STFU.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The problem is two-fold. People who need cheap labor
> (some white, but others too) like the never ending supply
> of desperate centro americanos.

That's unbelievably dumb. What I have is work that needs doing. Perhaps tables to be bussed in a restaurant. I only care that I can find prompt reliable, and efficient people to do that for me. I am going to pay them minimum wage regardless of where they come from or how many more of them there are out there. All the people who bus tables for me start at minimum wage.

> White liberals love the idea of enlisting these
> people as Democrat voters...

Only citizens can register and vote, dumbo. And don't give me that Old Dominion University nonsense where the authors have already admitted that their study really didn't demonstrate anything.

> If you make all the illegals legal, you've priced
> them out of what the market can pay.

Minimum wage is minimum wage, You really do not understand how ANY of this works.

> They can afford to work for less because of lower
> overhead (putting 3 and 4x the tenants in local
> apartments)...

I'm left wondering how it is supposed that illegals are the only group who would do this. I've seen blacks up from the south do it. I've seen debt-strapped college grads earning entry-level wages do it. What's the big deal?

> Meanwhile D.C has an alarming unemployment rate
> for young blacks. Ironic?

Young blacks have high unemployment rates all over. But illegals have an effect only on the unemployment rates of young black high school dropouts. Nobody else. Just more of your idiot notions gone swirling down the drain.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What actually needs to happen is that they all be
> legalized and given green cards so they can work
> and live and pay taxes on the same basis as
> everyone else.

They need to be rounded up at gunpoint and put on the bus. No food, no water, no anything. Any who resist will be shot in the knee.

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah your Culmore SevLev boys are paying taxes?>
> Get your head out of your fucking asshole, fool.

Do they have jobs? Do they pay rent? Do they buy stuff? Then they pay the same taxes that you do. How dumb can you be over there.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah your Culmore SevLev boys are paying taxes?>
>
> > Get your head out of your fucking asshole,
> fool.
>
> Do they have jobs? Do they pay rent? Do they buy
> stuff? Then they pay the same taxes that you do.
> How dumb can you be over there.


Jobs paid in cash and without taxes withheld.

Rents shared across multiple of residents to the extent that they are passed on.

Lower incomes = lower purchases made = lower taxes paid.

Low income brackets with EIC and other credits mean most don't actually pay much of anything even when taxes are filed.

Not counting the disproportionate drain on the other side of the equation.

Complete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ Bullshit. And everyone knows it.

No, it's kind of just you total dumbasses. Employers do not want to be visited by ICE or the IRS. There are very severe penalties for being dinged by either one of those, particularly the IRS. Knowing that you cant be 100% sure that everyone you hire is legal, you work hard to maintain plausible deniability. That means you file I-9's for everybody and then treat everybody the same. Same wages, same taxes, same benefits, same everything. Treating anyone differently would be like signing a confession. So you don't do that.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Complete Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ^ Bullshit. And everyone knows it.
>
> No, it's kind of just you total dumbasses.
> Employers do not want to be visited by ICE or the
> IRS. There are very severe penalties for being
> dinged by either one of those, particularly the
> IRS. Knowing that you cant be 100% sure that
> everyone you hire is legal, you work hard to
> maintain plausible deniability. That means you
> file I-9's for everybody and then treat everybody
> the same. Same wages, same taxes, same benefits,
> same everything. Treating anyone differently
> would be like signing a confession. So you don't
> do that.


^ Bullshit. And everyone knows it.

Illegal immigrants net tax contributions are negative when EIC and benefits they claim through children are counted against the taxes they pay.

Watch one of the Spanish language tv stations and see the ABC of welfare programs that are mentioned in big lettering on the bottom of the screen for docs, dentists, schooling, and services.

When I was a teenager I worked at Giant and the constant refrain from the central American teenage mothers was WIC, WIC, WIC. They game the system good and are helped by social workers to get every cent "they're entitled to".

No day laborers pay taxes, you goober fuck crotch rot dip shit.

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Libturds will say- "Oh they all pay gas tax and
> sales tax!"

And property taxes and income taxes and payroll taxes -- all the same taxes that you pay.

> ...but their existence is based on the underground
> economy. If you don't understand that STFU.

No, they work in hotels, restaurants, hospitals, clinics, and nursing homes, in construction, in agriculture, as taxi drivers, and on and on and on. The notion that illegals are all working in invisible shady underground positions is simply poppycock.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WingNut Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Libturds will say- "Oh they all pay gas tax and
> > sales tax!"
>
> And property taxes and income taxes and payroll
> taxes -- all the same taxes that you pay.
>
> > ...but their existence is based on the
> underground
> > economy. If you don't understand that STFU.
>
> No, they work in hotels, restaurants, hospitals,
> clinics, and nursing homes, in construction, in
> agriculture, as taxi drivers, and on and on and
> on. The notion that illegals are all working in
> invisible shady underground positions is simply
> poppycock.


Under temporary employment arrangements, subcontracting schemes, by switching falsified identities to stay under thresholds, for cash, and other means of avoidance which are routinely exposed.

Many do pay taxes. Many do not. Most who have taxes withheld don't end up paying much of anything when filed.

God, are you a deluded Asshole! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jobs paid in cash and without taxes withheld.

Teeny tiny percentages fit that description. You are just Fairy Tale fucked up here.

> Rents shared across multiple of residents to the
> extent that they are passed on.

What's the problem there? Everybody does that.

> Lower incomes = lower purchases made = lower taxes paid.

Dumbfuck, I can guaranty that I pay many times what you pay in taxes. Are you a worthless piece of trash because of that? No, not because of that. We both in fact pay the same taxes -- mine are just much higher than yours for reasons that are probably obvious, but have nothing to do with citizenship status.

> Low income brackets with EIC and other credits
> mean most don't actually pay much of anything even
> when taxes are filed.

That's only income taxes, dumbass. Income taxes are progressive. Good thing, since all the other ones are regressive. Go look those words up if you don't know what they mean. Meanwhile the bottom 20% by income lose more than 16$% of that income to taxes. Didn't know that, did you.

> Not counting the disproportionate drain on the
> other side of the equation.

There is no such thing, you moron. Illegals try to fly under the radar. They don't call the police when they should. They don't go to the ER when they should. They don't file for tax refunds. They try to do as little as possible that involves contact with "the system". Low-income legals meanwhile play the system for every penny they can get. You are just one fucked in the head asshole for not having known any of this. .

#WhiteTaxesMatter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Illegal immigrants net tax contributions are
> negative when EIC and benefits they claim through
> children are counted against the taxes they pay.

All low-income families with children are in this situation -- with respect to INCOME TAXES. That's by design, by the way. Meanwhile, payroll taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes, and property taxes are doing a number on the budgets of low-income workers.

> Watch one of the Spanish language tv stations and
> see the ABC of welfare programs that are mentioned
> in big lettering on the bottom of the screen for
> docs, dentists, schooling, and services.

Yeah, these are programs for LOW-INCOME people. Here is the word ILLEGAL. See how different those two words are?

> When I was a teenager I worked at Giant and the
> constant refrain from the central American
> teenage mothers was WIC, WIC, WIC. They game the
> system good and are helped by social workers to
> get every cent "they're entitled to".

WIC benefits unborn fetuses and young children. Nice of you to single those folks out for abuse, you basket-case turd-fuck

> No day laborers pay taxes, you goober fuck crotch
> rot dip shit.

So totally fucking stupid. Go fuck yourself, you worthless piece of ignorant, contemptible slime.

No 7/11s back home.

Never Run Out of Ammo

Guns Don't Kill People. People Kill People

Them or You

The two most important days in your life are the day your were born and and the day you find out why

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God, are you a deluded Asshole! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Jobs paid in cash and without taxes withheld.
>
> Teeny tiny percentages fit that description. You
> are just Fairy Tale fucked up here.

Bullshit.

>
> > Rents shared across multiple of residents to
> the
> > extent that they are passed on.
>
> What's the problem there? Everybody does that.
>

The problem is that it undercuts your argument that they pay as much as anyone else.

> > Lower incomes = lower purchases made = lower
> taxes paid.
>
> Dumbfuck, I can guaranty that I pay many times
> what you pay in taxes. Are you a worthless piece
> of trash because of that? No, not because of
> that. We both in fact pay the same taxes -- mine
> are just much higher than yours for reasons that
> are probably obvious, but have nothing to do with
> citizenship status.
>

Which is completely irrelevant nonsense having nothing to do with the simple fact that they contribute little even as a portion of sales taxes given generally lower incomes to spend.


> > Low income brackets with EIC and other credits
> > mean most don't actually pay much of anything
> even
> > when taxes are filed.
>
> That's only income taxes, dumbass. Income taxes
> are progressive. Good thing, since all the other
> ones are regressive. Go look those words up if
> you don't know what they mean. Meanwhile the
> bottom 20% by income lose more than 16$% of that
> income to taxes. Didn't know that, did you.
>

Which adds up to trivial amounts when it's N% of squat. Much of which is recovered via credits and other reductions..


> > Not counting the disproportionate drain on the
> > other side of the equation.
>
> There is no such thing, you moron. Illegals try
> to fly under the radar. They don't call the
> police when they should. They don't go to the ER
> when they should. They don't file for tax
> refunds. They try to do as little as possible
> that involves contact with "the system".
> Low-income legals meanwhile play the system for
> every penny they can get. You are just one fucked
> in the head asshole for not having known any of
> this. .


Bullshit. Their kids aren't under the radar for schools and related costs. They're and their children are eligible for and disproportionately take advantage of numerous social support programs and services. By the IRS' own estimates 25% of EIC payments are fraudulent much of which goes to illegals. +$4.2 billion in child credits going to individuals not authorized to work in the US, including significant amounts for children not even living in the US.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God, are you a deluded Asshole! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Jobs paid in cash and without taxes withheld.
>
> Teeny tiny percentages fit that description. You
> are just Fairy Tale fucked up here.
>

Maybe in your world. In my world, cash paid to these "independent contractors" is over 40 percent of our labor costs.

We could not meet budget without them, and they work harder and longer than some of our payroll employees.

Anything to turn a buck. Cutting corners to get a job done is par for their course.
-- Unskilled labor not fit for quality work. -- Period. They work harder, but are unskilled. They save you bucks but at what cost to the ones who hire you?

God Are You Dumb - There are problems with ad hominem attacks, principally because they tend to serve the opposite purpose to which they are intended.

I think the question of whether illegal immigration harms entry level American workers is a good one, rife with bromides over people doing jobs others will not do. There are some who suggest that illegal immigrants do harm entry level workers, a position Obama (who must be dumb by your reckoning) adopted himself in 2006:

President Barack Obama once declared that an influx of illegal immigrants will harm “the wages of blue-collar Americans” and “put strains on an already overburdened safety net.”

“[T]here’s no denying that many blacks share the same anxieties as many whites about the wave of illegal immigration flooding our Southern border—a sense that what’s happening now is fundamentally different from what has gone on before,” then-Senator Obama wrote in his 2006 autobiography, “The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream.”

”Not all these fears are irrational,” he wrote.

“The number of immigrants added to the labor force every year is of a magnitude not seen in this country for over a century,” Obama noted. “If this huge influx of mostly low-skill workers provides some benefits to the economy as a whole—especially by keeping our workforce young, in contrast to an increasingly geriatric Europe and Japan—it also threatens to depress further the wages of blue-collar Americans and put strains on an already overburdened safety net.”

I think it is foolish to overlook the immense social costs - redistributive wealth transfers from the middle class to those here illegally. The costs to our public schools are immense, and the children are users of high resource, high cost services. Fraud is always a problem with entitlement programs, particularly with desperate people involved, so it is foolish as well to believe that fraud does not impose high social costs. The debate could be had as to what degree, but I think it naive to think the fraud problem is minimal (as the IRS statistic avers).

One of the things I like about Elizabeth Warren is that she says things other politicians will not say. By way of example, she points out that if those at or near the minimum wage could have shared in the GDP gains over the past two decades, the average minimum wage, irrespective of legislation, would be at 15 or 16 dollars per hour. So what gives? As a relative who is a world renowned economist explains (be careful god are you dumb, I have the same level of education), the real problem is the rise of global competitiveness, particularly with India, China, various countries in the Far East, and Brazil as well. I am not sure what can be done in response to the competitiveness, other than debate some sort of 21st century mercantilism, but the last thing you want to do when faced with depressed entry level wages is to encourage illegal immigration. Even casting aside the debate over how entry level wages may be impacted, there are simply fewer sources of funds to pay for social costs, and those at the bottom of the ladder (citizens) rely on social programs. I am certain that this answer is not what what Elizabeth Warren is thinking, but that is the point - she is talking about income equality and quality of life issues, and that is a good debate to have.

Cheers

god are you dumb is well,

--Speaking only from personal experience.-- I do agree with what you wrote.

Here in Centreville, they loiter around the library off Machen Road. People have complained and nothing has been done about it.

Gunlover Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No 7/11s back home.

7-ELevens are held in high regard in other countries?

Can yoos hear me now mang? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Every notice that every one of them has a smart
> phone?
>
> And most of them walk around talking on it 24x7.
>
> How the fuck do they do that?
>
> Must be some kind of underground scheme involved.


OBAMA PHONE YOU WEDO! (that would be slang for white guy)

Do you know who else paid "most" of the same taxes you do?



That's right, but just not all of them.

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

How do you say 7-Eleven in Spanish?

Siete-Once?

idontlikebeingrightaboutshitlikethisbutiam



Edited 21 time(s). Last edit at 5/31/1967 05:57AM by WingNut.

Last edit at 11/30/2015 01:37PM Last edit at 5/14/2015 03:52PM Last edit at 1/28/2014 05:57AM Last edit at 11/29/2015 01:10PM Last edit at 3/14/2011 11:52PM Last edit at 7/20/2012 04:07AM
Last edit at 6/29/2013 11:18PM Last edit at 3/19/2011 01:02PM Last edit at 3/26/2012 09:07PM

mi oficina

ContractorCorner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anything to turn a buck. Cutting corners to get a
> job done is par for their course.
> -- Unskilled labor not fit for quality work. --
> Period. They work harder, but are unskilled. They
> save you bucks but at what cost to the ones who
> hire you?

I disagree.

My best carpenters and climbers I find at the 7-11 in Annandale. I have their phone numbers now for when I need them.

$12-$20 per hour is much better than trying to retain full-time employees.

Holy shit OP you truly are quite sheltered. Try leaving the country and visit Central America. If you stay there long enough you'll see how bad it can get. There gang violence in the bigger cities, kidnapping, and poverty and homelessness. It was the same as it was for Eastern Europeans back in the late 19th century. They came to escape they're terrible and corrupt governments. But of course this is Central America we're talking about. I know a majority of people from El Salvador came to escape a Civil War the was going on during the late 20th century. My parents are some of the people that came because of the Civil War that occurred there. They are legal immigrants though. The standard of living here is obviously better than in the countries of Central America.

Foreman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I disagree.
>
> My best carpenters and climbers I find at the 7-11
> in Annandale. I have their phone numbers now for
> when I need them.
>
> $12-$20 per hour is much better than trying to
> retain full-time employees.


You file I-9s for them of course right? W-4s for their Fed withholdings. State tax and payroll. All of those taxes that they all pay... Like everyone does...

HAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Good people. Most of them work and only small amount are at 7-11. beats all the whites hanging out at homeless shelters or smoking meth like what whites that have no jobs normally do all day. They are not on welfare like fat white womwn with 3 kids. All you have to do is go to the country and see all the lazy white people not working in a zillion small towns all over america they are the real problems in america. lazy whites on disability and welfare are like coachroaches in NYC.

God, are you a deluded Asshole! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bullshit.

Nice argument, asshole. That's a real winner.

> The problem is that it undercuts your argument
> that they pay as much as anyone else.

Read more slowly this time, assfuck -- illegals pay all the same taxes you do. Not the same amount. Any luck with it that time?

> Which is completely irrelevant nonsense having
> nothing to do with the simple fact that they
> contribute little even as a portion of sales taxes
> given generally lower incomes to spend.

Stooge, you're arguing that it does matter if an illegal pays less in taxes than you do, but that it does NOT matter if you pay less than I do. Only a complete idiot could make those claims at the same time, ergo you are a complete idiot.

> Which adds up to trivial amounts when it's N% of
> squat. Much of which is recovered via credits and
> other reductions..

Legals file for the EITC and ACCC. Illegals often don't file at all. They fill out a W-4 when they start work, taxes are withheld, and that's the end of of the matter.

> Bullshit. Their kids aren't under the radar for
> schools and related costs.

Whether they rent or own, illegals pay the same property taxes that you do. They pay their dues. Their kids have the same right to attend local schools that yours do.

> They're and their children are eligible for and
> disproportionately take advantage of numerous social
> support programs and services.

Why didn't you source such claims? Embarrassed or something?

god are you dumb is well, ... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God Are You Dumb - There are problems with ad
> hominem attacks, principally because they tend to
> serve the opposite purpose to which they are
> intended.

Go fuck yourself, you hot-air huffing asshole.

> I think the question of whether illegal
> immigration harms entry level American workers is
> a good one, rife with bromides over people doing
> jobs others will not do. There are some who
> suggest that illegal immigrants do harm entry
> level workers, a position Obama (who must be dumb
> by your reckoning) adopted himself in 2006:

The question has been answered, dummy. The only group of workers that experiences statistically detectable competition from illegal immigrants is young black high-school dropouts. There is no measureable effect on anyone else, regardless of what either you or Obama might say or think.

> I think it is foolish to overlook the immense
> social costs - redistributive wealth transfers
> from the middle class to those here illegally.

There are no immense social costs unless (like a blatant asshole) you simply disqualify all the even more immense social benefits. You are making third-grade level arguments here, which frankly might be overly complimentary.

> One of the things I like about Elizabeth Warren is...

You do realize that these streams of "So-and-so said..." are all logical fallacies?

> As a relative who is a world renowned economist
> explains (be careful god are you dumb, I have the
> same level of education)...

Oh please! You evidence no significant education at all. And your phantom relative isn't faring any better.

> ...the real problem is the rise of global
> competitiveness, particularly with India, China,
> various countries in the Far East, and Brazil as
> well. I am not sure what can be done in response
> to the competitiveness, other than debate some
> sort of 21st century mercantilism, but the last
> thing you want to do when faced with depressed
> entry level wages is to encourage illegal
> immigration. Even casting aside the debate over
> how entry level wages may be impacted, there are
> simply fewer sources of funds to pay for social
> costs, and those at the bottom of the ladder
> (citizens) rely on social programs. I am certain
> that this answer is not what what Elizabeth Warren
> is thinking, but that is the point - she is
> talking about income equality and quality of life
> issues, and that is a good debate to have.

Worthless load of grade-school gibberish. You've never actually taken an Econ course, have you. You just read your right-wing propaganda slop and think you can pass yourself off. FAIL, asshole, FAIL, FAIL, FAIL.

> Cheers

As I said, go fuck yourself. You're just a waste of everybody's time.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God, are you a deluded Asshole! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bullshit.
>
> Nice argument, asshole. That's a real winner.

That's what it is. Repeated bullshit still is bullshit.

>
> > The problem is that it undercuts your argument
> > that they pay as much as anyone else.
>
> Read more slowly this time, assfuck -- illegals
> pay all the same taxes you do. Not the same
> amount. Any luck with it that time?
>

LOL! Oh, OK. Thanks for clearing that up. So if an illegal pays 1% of what the typical US taxpayer does, then that makes their contribution equivalent. Gotcha. lol

And still not true because all of those working informally do not pay all of the same taxes.


> > Which is completely irrelevant nonsense having
> > nothing to do with the simple fact that they
> > contribute little even as a portion of sales
> taxes
> > given generally lower incomes to spend.
>
> Stooge, you're arguing that it does matter if an
> illegal pays less in taxes than you do, but that
> it does NOT matter if you pay less than I do.
> Only a complete idiot could make those claims at
> the same time, ergo you are a complete idiot.
>

You have no idea what I pay nor is it relevant what you or I pay. Illegals working off the books pay little to no taxes compared to anyone who does pay. Even when they work on the books and have taxes withheld, they tend to earn at levels where their net payment will be very small, if any, and in many cases end up net positive after credits.


> > Which adds up to trivial amounts when it's N%
> of
> > squat. Much of which is recovered via credits
> and
> > other reductions..
>
> Legals file for the EITC and ACCC. Illegals often
> don't file at all. They fill out a W-4 when they
> start work, taxes are withheld, and that's the end
> of of the matter.
>

The IRS says that those not authorized to work in the US (aka illegals) are filing for credits to the tune of +$4.2 billion/year (likely more today).

That's just for child credits and counting what they can easily determine. If you want to add the numbers from the similar GAO analysis of the credits, then that would add another $13 billion.


> > Bullshit. Their kids aren't under the radar
> for
> > schools and related costs.
>
> Whether they rent or own, illegals pay the same
> property taxes that you do. They pay their dues.
> Their kids have the same right to attend local
> schools that yours do.
>
> > They're and their children are eligible for and
>
> > disproportionately take advantage of numerous
> social
> > support programs and services.
>
> Why didn't you source such claims? Embarrassed or
> something?

Which would you like? Numbers from emergency Medicaid services which show that the vast majority of those funds go to pay for illegals having babies and other services? The costs from some of the state programs which cover what Federal programs don't in cases where illegals are excluded by law? Numbers for school enrollments and free meal programs? SNAP and WIC numbers for households headed by illegals? Lots we can choose from. Not even counting lots of other social costs.

I lulz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You file I-9s for them of course right? W-4s for
> their Fed withholdings. State tax and payroll.
> All of those taxes that they all pay... Like
> everyone does...HAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Actually, he doesn't because every word he said was a big fat lie. Nobody with intentions of having any sort of longevity in business behaves as you uninformed assfucks believe they do. Businesses have to file tax returns of their own, you know. Think about what that means for a while.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, he doesn't because every word he said
> was a big fat lie. Nobody with intentions of
> having any sort of longevity in business behaves
> as you uninformed assfucks believe they do.
> Businesses have to file tax returns of their own,
> you know. Think about what that means for a
> while.


Roofing subcontractors plead guilty to hiring, harboring illegal aliens

SPRINGFIELD, Mo. - A husband and wife pleaded guilty in federal court here Thursday to hiring and harboring illegal aliens who did roofing work for them. This plea was announced by John F. Wood, U.S. Attorney, Western District of Missouri; U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) conducted the investigation.

Dionel Barrios-Fraire, 27, a Mexican citizen illegally present in the United States, and his wife, Ana Elda Barrios, 25, of Springfield, each pleaded guilty in separate appearances before U.S. Chief Magistrate Judge James C. England to the charges contained in a May 7 federal indictment.

Barrios-Fraire and Barrios admitted that from February 2007 until April 25, 2008, they aided and abetted each other by unlawfully harboring illegal aliens, transporting the aliens to worksites, and providing documentation and funds to the aliens so that they could remain in the United States illegally.

Barrios-Fraire and Barrios employed illegal aliens to work on roofing jobs they performed for Taylor Made Roofing in Bolivar, Mo. They began performing roofing work for Taylor Made Roofing in February 2007; they continued until August or September 2007 when they moved to Colorado to find more work. They returned to work for Taylor Made Roofing in February 2008 and continued to perform work for Taylor Made Roofing until ICE agents discovered them on April 25. Barrios-Fraire and Barrios always used illegal alien workers to complete the work they performed for Taylor Made Roofing.

Initially, Barrios filled out a W-9 form and provided copies of her identification to the owner of Taylor Made Roofing to gain employment with the company. Barrios filled out the W-9 form in her name and provided copies of her identification documents because she knew her husband did not have a valid Social Security number or proper identification. Eventually, Barrios-Fraire and Barrios signed a subcontractor agreement with Taylor Made Roofing. Barrios-Fraire placed a false Social Security number on the subcontractor agreement for himself.

In January 2007, the owner of Taylor Made Roofing, Russell D. Taylor, asked Barrios-Fraire and Barrios about the legality of their workers. Barrios gathered copies of the false identifications the workers already possessed, and prepared falsified I-9 forms for each of the workers in her employment. Barrios provided these documents to Taylor, knowing the information she provided was false, in order to maintain employment with Taylor Made Roofing.

According to today's plea agreement, Taylor, who knew the workers were illegal aliens, warned Barrios-Fraire that he was going to get caught. But Taylor did not ask Barrios-Fraire or his workers to leave the job site.

Barrios-Fraire and Barrios were paid by Taylor Made Roofing via check. Most, if not all, of the checks were made payable to Barrios, since her husband did not have a valid Social Security number. Barrios cashed the checks at the financial institution where Taylor Made Roofing held its business account, then paid the illegal workers in cash.

Barrios-Fraire and Barrios knew that their employment of the alien workers, the payment to the workers in cash, and the falsification of the I-9 forms facilitated the aliens' ability to remain in the United States illegally by providing them with a means to fulfill their basic living needs, and by shielding them from detection.

On April 25, 2008, ICE agents arrested Barrios-Fraire and four illegal workers he employed at a job site in Fair Grove, Mo. One of the workers was a 16-year-old unaccompanied juvenile.

Contractors Often Play a Key Role in the Hiring of Illegal Immigrants

April 15, 2006 Anna Gorman Times Staff Writer

When federal authorities catch illegal immigrants on the job, some U.S. employers have a ready explanation for how they came to be hired: It wasn't us. It was a contractor.

Although these middlemen, including recruiters and temporary agencies, do not figure prominently in the current debate over illegal immigration, they are playing an increasingly significant role in hiring and managing the nation's workforce. Especially in California, an untold number of contractors employ immigrants -- legal and illegal -- in such industries as construction, janitorial service, hospitality and agriculture.

For now, work site raids and prosecution are infrequent, except where immigration authorities perceive a national security risk. But even as pressure builds in Congress to crack down on the hiring of undocumented workers, the involvement of contractors and subcontractors could make enforcement nearly impossible, labor experts, government officials and immigration policy critics say.

Under current federal law, companies face criminal or civil sanctions only if they knowingly employ undocumented workers.

"An easy defense ... would be to say that they used this subcontractor who they assumed was checking the documents," said Jennifer Silliman, assistant special agent in charge with Immigration and Customs Enforcement in San Diego. "It gives a level of deniability."

For The Record
Los Angeles Times Sunday April 23, 2006 Home Edition Main News Part A Page 2 National Desk 2 inches; 98 words Type of Material: Correction
Illegal immigrants: An article in the April 15 California section on the role of contractors in hiring illegal immigrants stated that Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents had arrested 17 undocumented workers in November at the Navy base on North Island in San Diego and that Golden State Fence was the contractor that hired the workers. In fact, only some of those arrested were employed by the company, which said that none of its employees had been assigned to work at North Island. Also, the arrests were made not at the base but at homes and other work sites.

Whether employers invoke the use of contractors as a defense or not, immigration authorities often don't go after the employer when a contractor is involved.

For instance, Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents arrested 17 undocumented workers in November at the U.S. Navy base on North Island in San Diego. But the agency is not taking aim at the Navy, saying there is no evidence that it knew the workers were undocumented. Instead, the agency is investigating Golden State Fence, the contractor that hired the workers.

The contractors are "ultimately responsible for complying with all the hiring regulations," said Scott Sutherland, deputy public affairs officer for the Navy Region Southwest.

Golden State Fence Vice President Gary Hansen said the company did what it was required to do by law -- check for documents and complete the required paperwork -- but that "something went wrong." The Riverside-based company now participates in a voluntary employee verification program run by the government. "It takes the doubt out," Hansen said.

Boston's Logan International Airport did not face fines or criminal charges after federal agents arrested 14 illegal immigrant janitors there last year, though Immigration spokeswoman Paula Grenier said the investigation into the "illegal worker scheme" is ongoing.

Airport officials said they didn't know the workers were undocumented. They blamed the subcontractor, Hurley of America, which hired the workers and issued them security badges.

"We entrusted our confidence that they were hiring the right people and doing the right thing," Danny Levy, spokeswoman for the Massachusetts Port Authority, said in a recent interview. "There was a breakdown."

Since the arrests at Logan, however, the Port Authority, which manages the airport, has taken over screening applicants and issuing security badges.

"It is our responsibility ultimately," Levy said. "It's our airport."

Blaming contractors is not a sure-fire defense, but it has proved successful for some corporations. In one of the most prominent cases, a federal jury in 2003 acquitted Tyson Foods of bringing in illegal immigrants from Mexico and Central America to work at its processing plants as part of a strategy to maintain production without raising pay.

The government argued that Tyson officials knew the workers were illegal. Tyson's attorneys said a placement agency was responsible for checking the paperwork. The jury sided with Tyson.

Of course, employers use contractors for a number of reasons unrelated to getting around immigration laws: to cut labor costs, ease paperwork burdens or avoid having to pay benefits and workers' compensation.

Contracting "affects a much larger share of workers than ever before," said Princeton University professor Douglas Massey. "This has become the norm in any industry where there are a lot of immigrants."

But contractors' involvement can provide a convenient layer of protection. "It's don't ask, don't tell," said Tamar Jacoby, an immigration expert at the Manhattan Institute, a conservative think tank.

The dramatic rise in the use of contractors and subcontractors began after Congress passed a 1986 law establishing sanctions against employers who hire illegal immigrants, said Massey, who directs the Mexican Migration Project, which studies migration patterns on both sides of the border.

He said the jump had been seen in numerous industries, including agriculture, construction, janitorial service, hospitality and landscaping.

Have you ever been poor in a third world country?

Hanging out at an American 7 Eleven is 1 million times better.

http://safeshare.tv/w/eUqDmyBbir

God, are you a deluded Asshole! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's what it is. Repeated bullshit still is bullshit.

Simple facts that you in your state of hopeless ignorance are completely unaware of are not bullshit. They are facts.

> LOL! Oh, OK. Thanks for clearing that up. So if
> an illegal pays 1% of what the typical US taxpayer
> does, then that makes their contribution
> equivalent. Gotcha. lol

No, you are still in a state of total ignorant failure. Illegals pay all the same taxes that you do. Simple fact. You may pay more than they do, while I most certainly pay more than you do, but we all still pay the same taxes. It's just that some people are too fucking dumb to realize it. That would refer to YOU, by the way, dumbass.

> You have no idea what I pay nor is it relevant
> what you or I pay. Illegals working off the books
> pay little to no taxes compared to anyone who does
> pay.

So it doesn't matter, but then again it does matter. You are fucking contradicting yourself at every turn. You are either drunk or stupid. Perhaps both.

> The IRS says that those not authorized to work in
> the US (aka illegals) are filing for credits to
> the tune of +$4.2 billion/year (likely more
> today).

You don't have to be legal to owe or pay taxes or to claim a refund.

> That's just for child credits and counting what
> they can easily determine.

The EITC and ACCC are different things. You don't seem to have any actual awareness of either one.

> If you want to add the numbers from the similar
> GAO analysis of the credits, then that would add
> another $13 billion.

No, it would be the same dollars, and keep in mind that what these reviews identify are payments in error. These include payments that shouldn't have been made but were, as well as payments that should have been made but weren't. If I get paid $5,000 too much and you get paid $5,000 too little, that's $10,000 in payment errors in this world. The numbers are not what you would claim them to be, but what would you know about it.

> Which would you like? Numbers from emergency
> Medicaid services which show that the vast
> majority of those funds go to pay for illegals
> having babies and other services?

What a pile of nativist filth. In addition to being a worthless ignorant asshole, you are a simply disgraceful human being. Public hospitals must on simple humanitarian grounds assist pregnant women who arrive in the ER regardless of their insurance or citizenship status. It has been this way since the 1980's. Medicaid does pay a portion of unreimbursed costs. Hospitals invest no resources in trying to do background checks on these patients. Statistics about their immigration status are all wild-assed guesses. Good enough for an asshole, I guess.

Fantasyland Shattered Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Roofing subcontractors plead guilty to hiring,
> harboring illegal aliens

LOL! The anecdotes are coming! The anecdotes are coming! What a shock to see that total dumbasses do not realize that anecdotal data are utterly worthless.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God, are you a deluded Asshole! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's what it is. Repeated bullshit still is
> bullshit.
>
> Simple facts that you in your state of hopeless
> ignorance are completely unaware of are not
> bullshit. They are facts.

You have no fact, just ideological babble. You repeating the same bullshit over and over doesn't make it fact. Sorry.


>
> > LOL! Oh, OK. Thanks for clearing that up. So
> if
> > an illegal pays 1% of what the typical US
> taxpayer
> > does, then that makes their contribution
> > equivalent. Gotcha. lol
>
> No, you are still in a state of total ignorant
> failure. Illegals pay all the same taxes that you
> do. Simple fact. You may pay more than they do,
> while I most certainly pay more than you do, but
> we all still pay the same taxes. It's just that
> some people are too fucking dumb to realize it.
> That would refer to YOU, by the way, dumbass.


All the same taxes, except for those that they don't by working off the books or otherwise avoid via thresholds, subcontracting schemes, etc., and in trivial amounts. Got it.

>
> > You have no idea what I pay nor is it relevant
> > what you or I pay. Illegals working off the
> books
> > pay little to no taxes compared to anyone who
> does
> > pay.
>
> So it doesn't matter, but then again it does
> matter. You are fucking contradicting yourself at
> every turn. You are either drunk or stupid.
> Perhaps both.
>


Correct. There's no contradicting that they contribute very little in the way of overall tax receipts.


> > The IRS says that those not authorized to work
> in
> > the US (aka illegals) are filing for credits to
> > the tune of +$4.2 billion/year (likely more
> > today).
>
> You don't have to be legal to owe or pay taxes or
> to claim a refund.
>

Who said that you did? I said that's what they get back. Even if they don't pay they get it back. It's not a refund.

You realize that about the lowest two quintiles of tax payers (where most would fall even if they are paying taxes) are net drains right? Even the bottom 50% of all taxpayers (which breaks at about $35K) only pay about $30 billion total in Federal taxes. $4 - $17 billion is a significant chunk out of that. And a big part of why the lowest quintiles are net negative.


> > That's just for child credits and counting what
> > they can easily determine.
>
> The EITC and ACCC are different things. You don't
> seem to have any actual awareness of either one.


Which makes no difference for purposes of the discussion. Dollars out are dollars out. More dollars out versus paid dollars in = net negative result in tax revenues for those tax'payers.'

>
> > If you want to add the numbers from the similar
>
> > GAO analysis of the credits, then that would add
>
> > another $13 billion.
>
> No, it would be the same dollars, and keep in mind
> that what these reviews identify are payments in
> error. These include payments that shouldn't have
> been made but were, as well as payments that
> should have been made but weren't. If I get paid
> $5,000 too much and you get paid $5,000 too
> little, that's $10,000 in payment errors in this
> world. The numbers are not what you would claim
> them to be, but what would you know about it.

No. These are child tax credits only. Not over-payments. Not miscalculations. Not the sum of multiple errors. They are the dollar amounts of credits paid to those not authorized to work in the US.

>
> > Which would you like? Numbers from emergency
> > Medicaid services which show that the vast
> > majority of those funds go to pay for illegals
> > having babies and other services?
>
> What a pile of nativist filth. In addition to
> being a worthless ignorant asshole, you are a
> simply disgraceful human being. Public hospitals
> must on simple humanitarian grounds assist
> pregnant women who arrive in the ER regardless of
> their insurance or citizenship status. It has
> been this way since the 1980's. Medicaid does pay
> a portion of unreimbursed costs. Hospitals invest
> no resources in trying to do background checks on
> these patients. Statistics about their
> immigration status are all wild-assed guesses.
> Good enough for an asshole, I guess.

More babble. None of which, regardless of what good humanitarian intentions may apply, affects that this money is in fact spent on these illegals and the children of illegals. Far more than they pay in.

See, that's why you start to fall apart in these discussions when they turn to hard numbers and specifics. You're left to arguing based on feelings versus facts.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fantasyland Shattered Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Roofing subcontractors plead guilty to hiring,
> > harboring illegal aliens
>
> LOL! The anecdotes are coming! The anecdotes are
> coming! What a shock to see that total dumbasses
> do not realize that anecdotal data are utterly
> worthless.


How many thousand of these "atypical anecdotes" would you like? lol

Which really are just the tip of the iceberg since they only reflect the tiny percentage of those caught and prosecuted. The reality is that it's the bulk of many work forces for entire labor sectors - construction labor, landscaping labor, housekeeping and office cleaning, etc.

Here's one you'll particularly enjoy.

Go ahead and defend the well-intentioned employer following all of the rules and not wanting to take the risk of violating the law. lol

Quote

Illegally in U.S., and Never a Day Off at Wal-Mart

By STEVEN GREENHOUSE
Published: November 5, 2003

They came from Russia, Poland and Lithuania, and their tales of washing and waxing Wal-Mart's floors for seven nights a week sound much like Pavel's.

Last February, Pavel responded to an intriguing Web site that boasted of cleaning jobs in the United States paying four times what he was earning as a restaurant manager in the Czech Republic. He flew from Prague to New York on a tourist visa and took a bus to Lynchburg, Va., where a subcontractor delivered him to a giant Wal-Mart.

Pavel immediately began on the midnight shift and said he soon learned that he would never receive a night off. He said he worked every night for the next eight months. In this way, Pavel, who refused to give his last name, became one pawn among hundreds employed by subcontractors that clean Wal-Mart stores across the nation, paying many workers off the books.

Pavel's unhappy stay in the United States ended with a shock when federal agents raided 60 Wal-Marts on Oct. 23 and arrested him and 250 other janitors as being illegal immigrants. Yesterday, the company acknowledged that it had received a target letter from federal prosecutors accusing it of violating immigration laws and saying that Wal-Mart faced a grand jury investigation.

The 21-state raid last month exposed an unseemly secret about Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer: Hundreds of illegal immigrants worked at its stores, and its subcontractors appear to have violated overtime, Social Security and workers' compensation laws.

Company officials deny having known that illegal immigrants worked in their stores, saying they required their cleaning contractors to use only legal workers.

But two federal law enforcement officials said in interviews that Wal-Mart executives must have known about the immigration violations because federal agents rounded up 102 illegal immigrant janitors at Wal-Marts in 1998 and 2001. In the October raid, federal agents searched the office of an executive at Wal-Mart's headquarters, carting away boxes of papers. Federal officials said prosecutors had wiretaps and recordings of conversations between Wal-Mart officials and subcontractors.

The use of illegal workers appeared to benefit Wal-Mart, its shareholders and managers by minimizing the company's costs, and it benefited consumers by helping hold down Wal-Mart's prices. Cleaning contractors profited, and thousands of foreign workers were able to earn more than they could back home.

But the system also had its costs -- janitors said they were forced to work seven days a week, were not paid overtime and often endured harsh conditions. Foreigners got jobs that Americans might have wanted. And taxpayers sometimes ended up paying for the illegal workers' emergency health care or their children's education in American schools.

''We Czechs are willing to sacrifice and work hard, but we definitely weren't earning enough money,'' said Pavel, 33, in a telephone interview from the Czech Embassy before he was deported last Friday. He said he received $380 in cash for his 56-hour workweeks. That came to $6.79 an hour, and he did not receive time-and-a-half for overtime.

In interviews, federal law enforcement officials, cleaning contractors, industry experts and seven illegal immigrant cleaners at Wal-Mart, including Pavel, said subcontracting allowed Wal-Mart to benefit while enabling it to deny responsibility.

Wal-Mart officials said it made sense to contract out the cleaning work because that enabled store managers to concentrate on what they do best, operating stores that provide low-cost merchandise. Wal-Mart uses about 100 contractors to clean nearly 1,000 of its stores.

Several industry executives said the questionable contractors made it hard for legitimate operators to bid low enough to win contracts at Wal-Mart.

''When you don't pay taxes, don't pay Social Security and don't pay workers' comp, you have a 40 percent cost advantage,'' said Lilia Garcia, executive director of the Maintenance Cooperation Trust Fund, a group financed by California cleaning contractors to police fly-by-night competitors. ''It makes it hard for companies that follow the rules.''

After the arrests, Wal-Mart, which had $245 billion in revenues last year, said it was beginning a review to ensure that no illegal immigrants worked in its 3,470 American stores.

''We take every action that we can to make sure our workers are legal workers, and in this case, be assured we will take whatever corrective actions are necessary,'' said Tom Williams, a spokesman for Wal-Mart, based in Bentonville, Ark.

He said of the target letter, ''The notification gives us time to provide the attorney general's office information that supports our position.''

Many people, from janitors to federal investigators, said Wal-Mart store managers and officials at headquarters knew about widespread use of cleaners who are illegal immigrants.

''The chief manager of our store knew what was going on,'' Pavel said. ''He knew that we were illegal.''

Federal law enforcement officials who spoke on condition of anonymity said Wal-Mart executives must have known about the use of illegal immigrants partly because 13 Wal-Mart cleaning subcontractors pleaded guilty to illegal hiring practices several years ago.

Alicia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good people. Most of them work and only small
> amount are at 7-11. beats all the whites hanging
> out at homeless shelters or smoking meth like what
> whites that have no jobs normally do all day. They
> are not on welfare like fat white womwn with 3
> kids. All you have to do is go to the country and
> see all the lazy white people not working in a
> zillion small towns all over america they are the
> real problems in america. lazy whites on
> disability and welfare are like coachroaches in
> NYC.

Alcia let me understand this. So what are you saying that whites sit around, smoking drugs and producing babies, collecting welfare b/c they are lazy and unwilling to work?

Are you implying that small town America is what is wrong with America?

Are you saying that people are "good" because they sneak into the country to work, even if they work hard for US dollars?

Alicia are you hispanic, yourself or are you just anti-white?

Sounds like you don't value life here in the USA. You cannot change anything by comparing yourself to others based on the color of skin. It is not skin color which matters. What matters is the content of a person's character.

My wife came from South America and even she understands this simple truth.
I forgive you for seeing the world through the lense of your skin color.
It's a colorful world, and that's beautiful, but color has nothing to do with "being better" than someone who doesn't look like you.

I came here for the free luxury housing, food, schools, medicine, cellphones, and Spanish-language cable, courtesy of all the sucker taxpaying Americans. Thank you working suckers! And yes, I will vote Democrat as long as the freebies keep coming!

"God Are You Dumb" AKA Asshole House Troll on so many threads. "Highly Educated" "Lives in a 7 figure house with expansive windows, beautiful grounds and has his estate grown Kona coffee every morning". Is full of so much bullshit. If this asshole is for real its no wonder he adores the illegals as future Democrat voters. He does not have to live among them, like all the Limo Liberals he's in a gated community, let all the rest of us deal with all the social troubles the illegals create.

Leave em be I say cause theres nothing that can be done with them as the liberals protect them, but if they break the law send em back home after they get out of jail. In due time the silent majority of American people will wake up to whats going on. Too Late I'm afraid.

God, are you a deluded Asshole! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> See, that's why you start to fall apart in these
> discussions when they turn to hard numbers and
> specifics. You're left to arguing based on
> feelings versus facts.

Go shit in the potty, not FFXU, you pathetic lying asshole. Everything you have tried to claim here has been revealed as a fraud. Your only recourse has been to post more of the same. Like legals, it is only a small number of illegals who work off the books. Most work for established, reputable employers where they are treated as any worker would be. Because that's what's in the employer's interests. Illegals pay all the same taxes that you pay. As much as they can, they avoid contact with the system. They cannot register to vote. They are not eligible for SNAP, TANF, SSI, or most other support programs. Illegals provide an estimated $8 billion annual 1subsidy to Social Security. About 8 million US jobs exist because of the demand generated by illegals, and just like legals, the product that illegals contribute to society is larger than what they cost. The one group that costs more than what they contribute in this country is right-wing fucking douchebag assholes. So why don't you go do a little bungee-jumping without a cord.

Fantasyland in Flames Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many thousand of these "atypical anecdotes"
> would you like? lol

None of them matter, you grossly under-educated dumbfuck. You are simply seeking to engage in an argument from the outliers. This is an entirely invalid form of argumentation wherein if 95% of something is one way, and 5% is the other way, one tries to invalidate the 95% percent by citing one example after another exclusively selected from among the 5%. This is a thoroughly dishonest, contemptible, and disgraceful tactic that is practiced only by the worst sorts of inveterate asshole scumbags and douchebags -- of which, you are very clearly and most definitely one.

When this is the alternative way to get enough money to feed your family, a 7-11 parking lot might look like a good option.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fantasyland in Flames Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How many thousand of these "atypical anecdotes"
> > would you like? lol
>
> None of them matter, you grossly under-educated
> dumbfuck. You are simply seeking to engage in an
> argument from the outliers. This is an entirely
> invalid form of argumentation wherein if 95% of
> something is one way, and 5% is the other way, one
> tries to invalidate the 95% percent by citing one
> example after another exclusively selected from
> among the 5%. This is a thoroughly dishonest,
> contemptible, and disgraceful tactic that is
> practiced only by the worst sorts of inveterate
> asshole scumbags and douchebags -- of which, you
> are very clearly and most definitely one.


Wrong. They are not outliers. They are, as I said, the norm for entire labor sectors. As your own bleeding hearts readily concede that where it suits their purposes when making separate arguments regarding treatment of workers, disability and unemployment coverage, wage and other abuses. As well as around the potential tax benefits of bringing in large numbers of these workers now working off the books. They cite the exact same large numbers of workers in the same sectors as I have. Just as done in the Wal-Mart article.

Virtually every office being cleaned in Tysons and beyond around here is based on the same subcontracted, don't-look-too-close model. Every landscaping company. Most all roofing, drywall, concrete, painting, and other labor-dependent construction work. And on and on. You're attempting to deny the reality which everyone knows.

What a great location for a drive by!

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> God, are you a deluded Asshole! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > See, that's why you start to fall apart in
> these
> > discussions when they turn to hard numbers and
> > specifics. You're left to arguing based on
> > feelings versus facts.
>
> Go shit in the potty, not FFXU, you pathetic lying
> asshole. Everything you have tried to claim here
> has been revealed as a fraud. Your only recourse
> has been to post more of the same. Like legals,
> it is only a small number of illegals who work off
> the books. Most work for established, reputable
> employers where they are treated as any worker
> would be. Because that's what's in the employer's
> interests. Illegals pay all the same taxes that
> you pay. As much as they can, they avoid contact
> with the system. They cannot register to vote.
> They are not eligible for SNAP, TANF, SSI, or most
> other support programs. Illegals provide an
> estimated $8 billion annual 1subsidy to Social
> Security. About 8 million US jobs exist because
> of the demand generated by illegals, and just like
> legals, the product that illegals contribute to
> society is larger than what they cost. The one
> group that costs more than what they contribute in
> this country is right-wing fucking douchebag
> assholes. So why don't you go do a little
> bungee-jumping without a cord.


Umm, no. Actually it hasn't. In fact, you've offered nothing but bs against the facts and hard numbers that I've cited.

Your "they pay the same taxes" bullshit is bullshit. First, because large numbers don't. Second, because it's typical disingenuous parsing where you're hoping that nobody notices that ignoring any amounts paid.

They and especially their children are eligible for many programs and represent a disproportionate drain. Again, a stupid attempt to parse out eligibility of parents and hoping that nobody notices those 4 kids and other associated costs.

You're not even smart enough to understand that your own SS contribution example undercuts your own larger argument. That number is based on the SS actuary's estimate of about 7 million illegals currently working in the US. Of those, about 3.1 are using fake SS numbers and paying payroll taxes. Guess who that leaves and how they are working? Want me to do the math for you or can you handle that one? That's right... Using your own source and example, MORE are working OFF the books than on. lol

Liberal Pant Load House Troll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "God Are You Dumb" AKA Asshole House Troll on so
> many threads. "Highly Educated" "Lives in a 7
> figure house with expansive windows, beautiful
> grounds and has his estate grown Kona coffee every
> morning". Is full of so much bullshit. If this
> asshole is for real its no wonder he adores the
> illegals as future Democrat voters. He does not
> have to live among them, like all the Limo
> Liberals he's in a gated community, let all the
> rest of us deal with all the social troubles the
> illegals create.
>
> Leave em be I say cause theres nothing that can be
> done with them as the liberals protect them, but
> if they break the law send em back home after they
> get out of jail. In due time the silent majority
> of American people will wake up to whats going on.
> Too Late I'm afraid.

Dave Grohl still loiters outside 7 Elevens. I saw him at one in Alexandria.

Liberal Pant Load House Troll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Highly Educated" "Lives in a 7 > figure house with
> expansive windows, beautiful grounds and has his estate
> grown Kona coffee every morning".

Yes, that's all true, as raging ENVY and BUTTHURT will never let you forget. But you didn't really do proper justice to the simply stunning kitchen in which the brewing of a fresh pot of estate-grown Kona is carried out in the early minutes of each new morning. It really is quite a setting.

> If this asshole is for real its no wonder he adores
> the illegals as future Democrat voters.

Illegals cannot so much as register to vote. Ask Brian.

> He does not have to live among them, like all the
> Limo Liberals he's in a gated community...

No gated community. That part's not true. Just the seven-figure estate part. And all of it of course maintained inside and out by miracle-working waves of Peruvians, Hondurans, and Salvadorans. You are the one who lives in fear and isolation. Diversity levels at my house are MUCH higher than at your house.

> ...let all the rest of us deal with all the social
> troubles the illegals create.

Life in Falls Church kind of sucking it these days? All that inside-the-Beltway cachet wearing a little thin? So glad I had the sense to move out of there all those years ago. The place has just become a dingy, declining, overcrowded mess at this point. And things are only going to get worse. With better options booming to both the east and west, I'm afraid the future doesn't look very bright for little old Tiny Town.

> In due time the silent majority of American people
> will wake up to whats going on. Too Late I'm afraid.

Here's a tip: Google "Rosetta Stone - Espanol". You'll need it.

Fantasyland's illegal cleaners Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wrong. They are not outliers. They are, as I
> said, the norm for entire labor sectors.

So, your arguments are now, "Bullshit", anecdotes, and "I said so."

> As your own bleeding hearts readily concede that
> where it suits their purposes when making separate
> arguments regarding treatment of workers...

Oh yeah...and masses of imported hearsay not introduced by any other poster but brought in specially to serve as convenient strawmen to do toy-soldiers battle with. LOL! You are just too pathetically infantile to believe!

> Virtually every office being cleaned in Tysons and
> beyond around here is based on the same subcontracted,
> don't-look-too-close model.

And they all have drawers full of I-9's and they all collect, file, and follow up on W-4's because they don't want to be busted for failure to do proper withholding. They are in a spotlight industry, and that's not a slap-on-the-wrist offense. They also have to file their own business tax returns, and you can't really claim to have cleaned five buildings using just two people. This is the computer age. Stupid stuff like that gets caught. If your fly-by-night "company" is going to vanish in two weeks anyway, maybe you don't care. But if you are like most folks and hope to be around for a while, you do care.

Fantasyland Shattered Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> SPRINGFIELD, Mo. - A husband and wife pleaded
> guilty in federal court here Thursday to hiring
> and harboring illegal aliens who did roofing work
> for them.

> On April 25, 2008, ICE agents arrested
> Barrios-Fraire and four illegal workers he
> employed at a job site in Fair Grove, Mo. One of
> the workers was a 16-year-old unaccompanied
> juvenile.

How did it end? Dionel Barrios-Fraire forfeited $3873. No one was deported. And that was in 2008 before Obama stopped looking for this sort of crime.

God, are you a deluded Asshole! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're not even smart enough to understand that
> your own SS contribution example undercuts your
> own larger argument. That number is based on the
> SS actuary's estimate of about 7 million illegals
> currently working in the US. Of those, about 3.1
> are using fake SS numbers and paying payroll
> taxes. Guess who that leaves and how they are
> working? Want me to do the math for you or can
> you handle that one? That's right... Using your
> own source and example, MORE are working OFF the
> books than on. lol

Stooge. The SS estimate is simply 75% of the just over 9 million W-2's that end up in IRS's suspense files because either the SSN or ITIN on the record can't be matched up to an actual individual. Some of these are legitimate clerical errors and will be resolved over time. SSA simply assumes that three quarters of them arise from illegals. Some think the real number is higher, some think it is lower. But ALL of these people are in fact ON the books of some employer somewhere. People who are working OFF the books do not show up in the system anywhere. That's sort of the whole point of it.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Stooge. The SS estimate is simply 75% of the just
> over 9 million W-2's that end up in IRS's suspense
> files because either the SSN or ITIN on the record
> can't be matched up to an actual individual. Some
> of these are legitimate clerical errors and will
> be resolved over time. SSA simply assumes that
> three quarters of them arise from illegals. Some
> think the real number is higher, some think it is
> lower. But ALL of these people are in fact ON the
> books of some employer somewhere. People who are
> working OFF the books do not show up in the system
> anywhere. That's sort of the whole point of it.


Nope. That's exactly wrong.

The analysis is more complex than that since there are more important things involved than just some knucklehead's idiotic claims. It affects everything from expectations for numbers of disability claims to the future effects of their children. If you'd look at some of the relevant actuarial notes and/or testimony and briefings, then you'd understand that.

In fact, what they actually do is virtually the exact opposite of what you suggest.

They start with otherwise derived estimates of the total non-resident population and subtract out those legally authorized to work in various ways. They make assumptions with respect to labor participation by unauthorized workers. They account for who they estimate have been able to fraudulently obtain SS numbers so they appear to be legit and therefore eligible to receive benefits. That gets them to everyone who is paying and eligible to receive benefits. They then apply a direct estimate of the number of unauthorized workers (3.9 million as given). Finally, they then calculate the 3.1 million *BY DIFFERENCE* as the result of all of the above.

Sorry for your loss.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fantasyland's illegal cleaners Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wrong. They are not outliers. They are, as I
> > said, the norm for entire labor sectors.
>
> So, your arguments are now, "Bullshit", anecdotes,
> and "I said so."


Mmmmmm... no. I have endless objective, independent, factual examples of these "outliers" as well as various analyses by various reputable groups discussing the matter more broadly.

You have nothing but a deluded fantasy claim that it doesn't happen which anyone with any sense laughs at.


>
> > As your own bleeding hearts readily concede that
>
> > where it suits their purposes when making
> separate
> > arguments regarding treatment of workers...
>
> Oh yeah...and masses of imported hearsay not
> introduced by any other poster but brought in
> specially to serve as convenient strawmen to do
> toy-soldiers battle with. LOL! You are just too
> pathetically infantile to believe!
>

So the NYT, Pew, etc., a wide range of immigrant worker advocates, all are just throwing up convenient strawmen in their own work. lmao You're an idiot.


> > Virtually every office being cleaned in Tysons
> and
> > beyond around here is based on the same
> subcontracted,
> > don't-look-too-close model.
>
> And they all have drawers full of I-9's and they
> all collect, file, and follow up on W-4's because
> they don't want to be busted for failure to do
> proper withholding. They are in a spotlight
> industry, and that's not a slap-on-the-wrist
> offense. They also have to file their own
> business tax returns, and you can't really claim
> to have cleaned five buildings using just two
> people. This is the computer age. Stupid stuff
> like that gets caught. If your fly-by-night
> "company" is going to vanish in two weeks anyway,
> maybe you don't care. But if you are like most
> folks and hope to be around for a while, you do
> care.

No they don't in many cases. There are many various dodges and schemes involved which hide unauthorized workers in various ways, to keep people under reporting thresholds using multiple false IDs, and to not claim them as direct employees.

What a lot of runny shit THAT was. Not posting anything at all would have left you looking better.

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What a lot of runny shit THAT was. Not posting
> anything at all would have left you looking
> better.


Back again with nothing to say?

Here, I'll let the Office of the Chief Actuary at SS do the talking for me:

Quote

"Finally, OCACT estimates 3.9 million other immigrants worked in the underground economy in 2010.

[Starting from an estimated 8.3 million unauthorized in the workforce...] Eliminating the current visa holders with temporary authorization (1.3 million other immigrants with legal work authorization), and those in the underground economy (3.9 million unauthorized workers), we estimate that there are about 3.1 million unauthorized immigrants working and paying Social Security taxes in 2010."

Quote

"Question: How many unauthorized workers are employed in the underground economy? How has this number changed in the past and how will it change in the future?

Response: The estimated number of unauthorized workers who are employed in the underground economy grew from 2.2 million in 2000 to 3.9 million in 2010. We project the number of these workers to grow to 9.0 million in 2040."

Pop Quiz

Which is larger:

(a) 3.9 unauthorized working underground
(b) 3.1 unauthorized working and paying taxes

Answer: _____

Assume you are from a dirt poor slum or village. Your family saves money, which is hard to do, and sends you, the most strong/healthy male, up here via smuggle route.

You pay $400 a month for a bed among 4 others in a bedroom, food costs are $200 with careful bulk rice and veggie shopping, clothing costs are $50, drinking costs are $100, maybe you get a tracfone, too. Medical care is free.

You work under the table 8 days per month, and you make enough to live on.

Work 3 extra days, and now you can send $300 home and make your family the richest in their hood.

Get on with a painitng crew or concrete cash crew and also be outside Home Depot all weekend, and all of the sudden $1,200 is going home every month. New home for the family, the start of a business, a future.

395runner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Assume you are from a dirt poor slum or village.
> Your family saves money, which is hard to do, and
> sends you, the most strong/healthy male, up here
> via smuggle route.
>
> You pay $400 a month for a bed among 4 others in a
> bedroom, food costs are $200 with careful bulk
> rice and veggie shopping, clothing costs are $50,
> drinking costs are $100, maybe you get a tracfone,
> too. Medical care is free.
>
> You work under the table 8 days per month, and you
> make enough to live on.
>
> Work 3 extra days, and now you can send $300 home
> and make your family the richest in their hood.
>
> Get on with a painitng crew or concrete cash crew
> and also be outside Home Depot all weekend, and
> all of the sudden $1,200 is going home every
> month. New home for the family, the start of a
> business, a future.

=====
That's a good description of what happens, and explains why they come. Do you believe this kind of thing helps or hurts the U.S. in the long run? And in what ways?

@ min wage rate. 9 out of 10 times... I'd pick a brown over white over black.

His wife came across the border disguised as a maid and her father was in the trunk (back in the 80s) .. His Brother in law ran across in '83 on new years at midnight with thousands of others, while the border patrol was celebrating a change in the calendar. He never learned about all this until being married for years. His wife has learned English very well and has assimulated largely to US culture, learned history, etc. His father in law never did and couldn't speak a full, gammitically correct sentence in English until the day he died. Their family came over also, 28, including spouses ... now their at over 80 with children and grand-children .. most of the children have done well, but they praise their parents homeland, more than the US, though they've benefited from growing up here ... most of the nieces ended up pregnant at young ages out of wedlock, a few are on food stamps ... this is the story of my friend's wife's family which started in the US after illegally crossing the border, in the early 80s ... Thoughts on how this kind of scenario, multiplied millions of times plays out for the US in the future?

God, are you dumb! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Complete Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ^ Bullshit. And everyone knows it.
>
> No, it's kind of just you total dumbasses.
> Employers do not want to be visited by ICE or the
> IRS. There are very severe penalties for being
> dinged by either one of those, particularly the
> IRS. Knowing that you cant be 100% sure that
> everyone you hire is legal, you work hard to
> maintain plausible deniability. That means you
> file I-9's for everybody and then treat everybody
> the same. Same wages, same taxes, same benefits,
> same everything. Treating anyone differently
> would be like signing a confession. So you don't
> do that.

You have to be a troll because nobody can be THAT stupid.
Attachments:

How does one say 7-Eleven in Espanol?

YYcTG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How does one say 7-Eleven in Espanol?


siete once

Taco Supreme.

Quite an interesting remark about 7-Eleven. But you are right. Americans like traveling a lot. And I know the best website for it. Here you can find the best option for travelers, the cheapest places to stay, and very advantageous prices.