HOV lane to be converted to HOT lane.

“We want to create a culture on I-66 where people get out of their single occupancy vehicles and either carpool or take mass transit. But unlike 95, we need to create a culture with slugging in that corridor. And we need to have rapid bus service in the corridor,” says Hamilton."

Liberal garbage. Stop trying to control our behavior. I will NEVER slug.

http://wtop.com/sprawl-crawl/2015/01/66-gain-toll-lanes-inside-outside-beltway/

WASHINGTON — The Virginia Department of Transportation is moving forward with a plan to add toll lanes along Interstate 66, both inside and outside of the Capital Beltway, during the next seven years.

Renee Hamilton, Deputy District Administrator at VDOT, briefed lawmakers during a National Capital Region Transportation Planning Board meeting Wednesday.

Outside the Beltway, VDOT would add one new lane from the Beltway to Haymarket, then convert the existing HOV lane to a toll lane. VDOT would also change the HOV rules to require three or more passengers instead of the current two or more passenger rule.

Similar to the 495 and 95 express lanes, HOV users would ride for free and non-HOV users would have to pay a toll. New barriers would be installed to prevent drivers from bobbing in and out of the lanes.

VDOT wants to begin construction in 2017 and complete it in 2022. Similar to the express lanes, the project would be paid for with a mix of public and private funding.

“We want to create a culture on I-66 where people get out of their single occupancy vehicles and either carpool or take mass transit. But unlike 95, we need to create a culture with slugging in that corridor. And we need to have rapid bus service in the corridor,” says Hamilton.

But Stewart Schwartz, with the Coalition for Smarter Growth, is very skeptical about the plan. He says it’ll induce more drivers to commute long-distance alone. He also says VDOT has made promises about providing robust bus service on the 495 and 95 express lanes but neither have come to fruition.

“If they consider rapid bus service as a top justification for the project, then we expect guarantees that VDOT will fund rapid bus service in the corridor. They’ve failed to do it on the 495 and 95 Express Lane deals,” says Schwartz.

Two of the three options for configuring the proposed toll lanes would leave room in the center for a future Metro Orange Line expansion from Vienna to Haymarket.

Inside the Beltway, VDOT is considering converting all lanes in both directions to toll lanes for non-HOV users during rush hours between the Capital Beltway and Route 29 in Rosslyn. Currently, non-HOV users cannot travel inbound in the morning or outbound in the afternoon east of the Beltway.

This plan would allow all motorists to travel inside the Beltway, with HOV users getting a free trip and non-HOV users paying a toll during the rush. Outside of rush hour, all lanes would be free to everyone.

“Again, we want to encourage multimodal solutions in the corridor, including carpooling and rapid bus service. And we think this is the best way to do it,” says Hamilton.

VDOT does not plan to widen I-66 inside the Beltway yet, and any efforts to do so could meet stiff resistance in Arlington. The state and county have butted heads in recent years over the expansion of both I-66 and Interstate 395, including a lawsuit that stopped the new express lanes before the Arlington line.

VDOT hopes to begin tolling inside the Beltway to begin in 2017.

Time to start calling your beloved leader you voted for. Richmond is going to fuck northern virginia with excessive tolls to fund po-dunk projects in the rest of the state.

liberals out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOV lane to be converted to HOT lane.
>
> “We want to create a culture on I-66 where
> people get out of their single occupancy vehicles
> and either carpool or take mass transit. But
> unlike 95, we need to create a culture with
> slugging in that corridor. And we need to have
> rapid bus service in the corridor,” says
> Hamilton."
>
> Liberal garbage. Stop trying to control our
> behavior. I will NEVER slug.


Libtards consider parasitic behavior to be perfectly normal.

All roads should be tolls. Government should not be in the road business. Let the market decide who goes where. Tolls are capitalism's answer to gridlock.

Pick up a book on economics soemtime.

Stop spending tax dollars on bridge maintenance, and when Nature takes its course and the bridges collapse, we'll know it is time to keep off. Private enterprise will provide ferries if there is an economic justification, otherwise we can stay on our own side of rivers and streams.

Milton friedman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All roads should be tolls. Government should not
> be in the road business. Let the market decide
> who goes where. Tolls are capitalism's answer to
> gridlock. Pick up a book on economics soemtime.

Friedman's weren't very good. The whole Chicago School kind of fell apart over externalities.

..... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> http://wtop.com/sprawl-crawl/2015/01/66-gain-toll-
> lanes-inside-outside-beltway/
>
> WASHINGTON — The Virginia Department of
> Transportation is moving forward with a plan to
> add toll lanes along Interstate 66, both inside
> and outside of the Capital Beltway, during the
> next seven years.

Sell! Sell! Sell! The time to move is now! Don't take this lying down!

liberals out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOV lane to be converted to HOT lane.
>
> “We want to create a culture on I-66 where
> people get out of their single occupancy vehicles
> and either carpool or take mass transit. But
> unlike 95, we need to create a culture with
> slugging in that corridor. And we need to have
> rapid bus service in the corridor,” says
> Hamilton."
>
> Liberal garbage. Stop trying to control our
> behavior. I will NEVER slug.

Why not slug? Is it a social issue or do you have stuff you need to hide?

Long & Foster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> http://wtop.com/sprawl-crawl/2015/01/66-gain-toll-
>
> > lanes-inside-outside-beltway/
> >
> > WASHINGTON — The Virginia Department of
> > Transportation is moving forward with a plan to
> > add toll lanes along Interstate 66, both inside
> > and outside of the Capital Beltway, during the
> > next seven years.
>
> Sell! Sell! Sell! The time to move is now!
> Don't take this lying down!

I totally agree. Yemen is a great place to move to right now. Or Detroit. Or New Orleans, murder capital of the US. Go for it!!!

why Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> liberals out Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HOV lane to be converted to HOT lane.
> >
> > “We want to create a culture on I-66 where
> > people get out of their single occupancy
> vehicles
> > and either carpool or take mass transit. But
> > unlike 95, we need to create a culture with
> > slugging in that corridor. And we need to have
> > rapid bus service in the corridor,” says
> > Hamilton."
> >
> > Liberal garbage. Stop trying to control our
> > behavior. I will NEVER slug.
>
> Why not slug? Is it a social issue or do you have
> stuff you need to hide?

People always get angry when I blast my music and drink my 40oz when driving. My car my rules biatch!

Schlitz commuter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > liberals out Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > HOV lane to be converted to HOT lane.
> > >
> > > “We want to create a culture on I-66 where
> > > people get out of their single occupancy
> > vehicles
> > > and either carpool or take mass transit. But
> > > unlike 95, we need to create a culture with
> > > slugging in that corridor. And we need to
> have
> > > rapid bus service in the corridor,” says
> > > Hamilton."
> > >
> > > Liberal garbage. Stop trying to control our
> > > behavior. I will NEVER slug.
> >
> > Why not slug? Is it a social issue or do you
> have
> > stuff you need to hide?
>
> People always get angry when I blast my music and
> drink my 40oz when driving. My car my rules
> biatch!


Yep, with those rules, not slugging makes total sense.

Oh Hell No! I don’t want to have to pay tolls any time I have to go somewhere. That really sucks!

causeican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh Hell No! I don’t want to have to pay tolls
> any time I have to go somewhere. That really
> sucks!

No problem. Just move somewhere where the roads REALLY suck (L.A., or Tulsa) and you can pay for a broken axle because of a pothole the size of a toddler pool!

Or you can buy a helicopter and fly everywhere.

option 2, I think

,
Attachments:

Fuck that shit! When gas goes up to $7 we are fucked!

why Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Long & Foster Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ..... Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> >
> http://wtop.com/sprawl-crawl/2015/01/66-gain-toll-
>
> >
> > > lanes-inside-outside-beltway/
> > >
> > > WASHINGTON — The Virginia Department of
> > > Transportation is moving forward with a plan
> to
> > > add toll lanes along Interstate 66, both
> inside
> > > and outside of the Capital Beltway, during
> the
> > > next seven years.
> >
> > Sell! Sell! Sell! The time to move is now!
> > Don't take this lying down!
>
> I totally agree. Yemen is a great place to move to
> right now. Or Detroit. Or New Orleans, murder
> capital of the US. Go for it!!!

The American pussy. Your father would be proud.

liberals out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOV lane to be converted to HOT lane.

Excellent. I love having my own HOT lanes when I drive. Having a barrier between me and the rest of the commoners really works out for me.

+1 for VDOT!

Milton friedman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All roads should be tolls. Government should not
> be in the road business. Let the market decide
> who goes where. Tolls are capitalism's answer to
> gridlock.
>
> Pick up a book on economics soemtime.


I agree and wait till you see the inflation of the cost of goods and services! Yummy double digit inflation as every piece of food, clothing or medicine you consume costs twice as much to transport.

-MERICA

Would the OP rather have his taxes increased to pay for roads?

To some of us there is a difference between a truely private toll road where the company obtains its own right of way and constructs the road with its own resources and at its own risk, and the current model where private companies use existing government highway rights of way and even roadways, and receive a government guaranteed rate of return.

liberals out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOV lane to be converted to HOT lane.
>
> “We want to create a culture on I-66 where
> people get out of their single occupancy vehicles
> and either carpool or take mass transit. But
> unlike 95, we need to create a culture with
> slugging in that corridor. And we need to have
> rapid bus service in the corridor,” says
> Hamilton."
>
> Liberal garbage. Stop trying to control our
> behavior. I will NEVER slug.

You could live closer in, or stop bitching about 2 hour commutes. Cunt.

liberals out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOV lane to be converted to HOT lane.
>
> “We want to create a culture on I-66 where
> people get out of their single occupancy vehicles
> and either carpool or take mass transit. But
> unlike 95, we need to create a culture with
> slugging in that corridor. And we need to have
> rapid bus service in the corridor,” says
> Hamilton."
>
> Liberal garbage. Stop trying to control our
> behavior. I will NEVER slug.


Fuckin idiots irony from the (R)etards here. They love the freemarket... except when it takes away their free government goodies like billion dollar highways for free.

Here is it, you dumb fucks don't want to raise gas taxes federally so all our interstate and federal highways have to get upgraded using private partnerships aka tolls. The freemarket has spoken you dumb shit.

^ Real estate closer in will continue to rise in value.

ummmmmmmmmmmmmm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fuck that shit! When gas goes up to $7 we are fucked!

Maybe you should go buy a Prius. You can get a used one for less than ten grand.

your solution? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would the OP rather have his taxes increased to
> pay for roads?

Roads in general benefit everyone. Even if you yourself don't drive at all, the stuff you use moves over the highways and byways and so do the people who come to work for you. Access to roads pushes everybody's property values up, even if you don't own a car. Given the shared benefits, it makes sense that at least some portion of the costs be shared as well. That's we here taxes come in.

But in some cases there are benefits that are not shared generally. This is where the concept of user-fees comes in. Tolls are a type of user-fee. So are admission fees to parks and recreation areas. These sorts of fees help assure that costs are apportioned in some sort of relation to benefits.

Many people are accustomed only to binary thinking. Everything must be either one way or another. This model is rarely seen in the real world, and roads are an example of that. The situation here is a mix: some benefits accrue more generally and some accrue more individually. This means that a mixture of taxes and tolls would be entirely appropriate as a means of funding.

The Interstate Highway System transformed life in the United States. It is impossible to imagine what our society would be like without it. The system was built and paid for through taxation, i.e., the federal gas tax. Thus, those who use the system pay for it, including non-drivers, whose fresh fruit and veg from Florida is transported by trucks, which pay taxes on fuel to support the system. The pernicious effects of the alleged public-private partnerships, such as the development of HOT lanes, will cause every American to rue the day when we acceded to the Reaganism that government can't solve our problems, government IS the problem. Horse droppings! Government organized the entire Interstate system, constructed it and paid for it. The public-private partnerships are nothing more than a deal between sitting politicians and corporations to allow corporate access to guaranteed income from the public purse, all because the politicians are terrified to go to the people and tell the truth. All right-wing economic theory is based on subsidizing private enterprises owned by insiders, to the detriment of everyone on the outside. HOT lanes in NOVA are one more means of wealth transfer from us to our less-productive fellow Virginians.

Long and hard.

"Richmond is going to fuck northern virginia with excessive tolls"

No, NoVa gets to manage a great deal of it's own transport $$$. Your dear leaders have decided that you don't get to have a car anymore, btw. The Arlington streetcar debacle? Just a bump in the road to our glorious future...

"Reaganism that government can't solve our problems"

You forgot the qualifier, and like most libtardz, are unable to comprehend what a Representational Republic means...

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To some of us there is a difference between a
> truely private toll road where the company obtains
> its own right of way and constructs the road with
> its own resources and at its own risk, and the
> current model where private companies use existing
> government highway rights of way and even
> roadways, and receive a government guaranteed rate
> of return.

Did you grow up with Laura Ingalls or something? In the early 20th century as automobiles began to proliferate, you as a homeowner were responsible for maintenance of any roadway your property fronted. Just as you are required today to keep a sidewalk passable, you had to get out there with your rake and hoe and shovel and wheelbarrow and keep the road in front of your property passable as well. Pretty soon we got to the point of realizing that was a stupid paradigm. One day, maybe you'll reach that point a swell.

"The public-private partnerships are nothing more than a deal between sitting politicians and corporations to allow corporate access to guaranteed income from the public purse"

HOT lanes FTW!

The key takeaway from the entire deal...

"you as a homeowner were responsible for maintenance of any roadway your property fronted"

The stupid, it burns...

"Excellent. I love having my own HOT lanes when I drive. Having a barrier between me and the rest of the commoners really works out for me."

You know who will get reduced rates? That's right, bitchez, government workers like ME.

Those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it. When Ronald Reagan found that he could construct a political career through a combination of a smile, shoeshine, and harking back to halcyon days that never actually existed, he probably thought it would mean a nice income for him and his immediate family until he could retire and enjoy his various government pensions and retirement benefits, back in his beloved southern California. He didn't spend a lot of time thinking, according to all accounts by those who knew him best, so he couldn't have anticipated the perverse purposes the structureless bromides in THE SPEECH would serve, decades after his departure. The United States is now struggling to find a way out of the wilderness constructed by Reagan acolytes, which seemingly requires ever-increasing payments from the Treasury to favored corporate enterprises, such as Halliburton subsidiary KBR, combined with expansion of means by which those same enterprises can avoid contributing anything to the maintenance of a functioning society.

YO YO YO YO

HERE'S A TIP. STOP BUYING HOUSES IN FUCK ROYAL & COMMUTING 3 HRS TO GET TO WORK. MOVE IN CLOSER. LIVE IN A HIGH RISE USE 2HRS EACH DAY SAVED ON COMMUTING TO EXCEL YOURSELF VIA ACTIVITIES OR FURTHER EDUCATION.... MKAYTHXBYE.

good investment Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ Real estate closer in will continue to rise in value.

The question is whether it will rise in value relative to real estate in other than "closer in" areas.

History not your forte... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "you as a homeowner were responsible for
> maintenance of any roadway your property fronted"
>
> The stupid, it burns...

Read some history, goober. Only your ignorance is being displayed here.

Where are the grown-ups? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good investment Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ^ Real estate closer in will continue to rise in
> value.
>
> The question is whether it will rise in value
> relative to real estate in other than "closer in"
> areas.


House values in Prince William, Loudoun, Stafford and Fuckquier still have recovered. My place in McLean is up 20% since 2007. Similar places in Falls Church, Vienna, Fairfax City, and Great Falls have the same history. Arlington has average prices over 30% up since 2007.

You live in the shitty area so you can get a mcmansion of 5 bedrooms for you and your fugly wife and 0 children. Enjoy having all that room, you know, just in case.

havent recovered

Dr. Memory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it.

Most of these goobers don't study anything much beyond FOX News. The usual right-wing swill is all they have to work with. Meanwhile the country does indeed struggle ever more against the tides of public harm that Uncle Ronnie and his bands of antisocial revolutionaries managed to unleash. If not for Bush-43, Reagan would still be well into the conversation over worst US President of all time.

Stating the obvious Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If not for Bush-43, Reagan would still be well into
> the conversation over worst US President of all
> time.

Poppycock. Love him or hate him, most polls place Reagan in the second quartile of Presidential rankings ahead of Bill Clinton. I'm sure there are those that do talk about him being the worst President of all time, but they are not in the majority.

You are a fuckin idiot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> House values in Prince William, Loudoun, Stafford
> and Fuckquier still have recovered. My place in
> McLean is up 20% since 2007. Similar places in
> Falls Church, Vienna, Fairfax City, and Great
> Falls have the same history. Arlington has average
> prices over 30% up since 2007.

That's stuff from the past. You were making promises about the future. Uninformed and incomplete promises. And when challenged on those, you have no intelligent comment to make at all. Just more goober rant.

> You live in the shitty area so you can get a
> mcmansion of 5 bedrooms for you and your fugly
> wife and 0 children. Enjoy having all that room,
> you know, just in case.

You don't know where I live. You just have some pitiful butthurt need to babble on and on to no actual end at all. Unless you can supply one -- which seems quite unlikely at this point -- there is no reason to assume that prices of "closer in" real estate will rise more quickly than prices of real estate elsewhere or in general. It is quite possible that these areas will become the new homes of immigrants and trades people who can no longer afford to live in gentrified urban areas or in the burgeoning upscale areas outside the Beltway.

17th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stating the obvious Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If not for Bush-43, Reagan would still be well
> into
> > the conversation over worst US President of all
> > time.
>
> Poppycock. Love him or hate him, most polls place
> Reagan in the second quartile of Presidential
> rankings ahead of Bill Clinton. I'm sure there
> are those that do talk about him being the worst
> President of all time, but they are not in the
> majority.


According the Gallup's annual poll, Reagan is consistently in the top 3 and has been for a while. FDR, JFK, Lincoln and Washington are the other consistent 4 of the top 5.

Btw, early road development relates to this - oh, wait, it doesn't.

PEOPLE, PEOPLE, PEOPLE....................

Why all the butthurt over such a topic???


Look, we all agree that this area is pretty much a shithole for several reasons with roads being one of them.

Let's just get over it. We all know that nothing can really be done to solve the problem. The area is out of control with population which affects other areas of life.

We're screwed and the screwing will continue until we decide to move to a place that isn't so bad. Myself, I have 9 years left in this craphole region. Already have a place picked out somewhere away from here.

See the current Atlantic article comparing two VA counties' quality of life issues. We in FFXCo have the luxury of choice in many areas that others lack. I'd take the proposition Resolved: 'Lifestyles of the Poor and Toothless is the Right Wing Holy Land' any day. That is because listening carefully to the rhetoric from the Reagan personality cult indicates that part of the spectrum believes using public funds for quality public schools, roads, wastewater treatment, vaccinations and other activities that benefit the entire population is wrong. Reaganites declare Fairfax County anathema because shows how government can function well, if not perfectly.

17th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Poppycock. Love him or hate him, most polls place
> Reagan in the second quartile of Presidential
> rankings ahead of Bill Clinton.

And in the interests of full disclosure, behind Barack Obama.

> I'm sure there are those that do talk about him
> being the worst President of all time, but they
> are not in the majority.

As Truman rose, Reagan will fall. His ratings today are based heavily on what people who saw him took to be his personal warmth and charm. They simply dismissed the fact that his training was as an actor. Not sure if he could cry on cue or not, but he could certainly break out the "kindly grandfather" character on cue. As time passes however, emphasis will shift to his actual record, and that flat out sucks. Take for instance the collapse of our northeast manufacturing corridor into The Rust Belt during what was at the time the worst economic decline since the Great Depression. Ten straight months of unemployment above 10%. People further forget that Reagan reversed the final third of his vaunted 1981 tax cuts in 1982 as part of what is still the largest peace-time tax increase in US history. Then he struck again by enacting large payroll and other tax increases in 1983, and signed further significant tax increases in 1984, 1985, 1986, and 1987. The 1986 bill was supposed to be revenue neutral, but it ended up being a two-year tax increase anyway. Meanwhile, defense spending boondoggles such as SDI produced nothing but growing budget deficits, while the AIDS crisis was completely ignored as it burst out all around him. And how about those Central American "death squads" and the rest of the deplorable Iran/Contra affair. He should have been impeached for such high crimes and misdemeanors, but Tip O'Neill and the Democrats did not think it would be best for the country to be put through that sort of ordeal so late in a second term. Imagine putting country ahead of partisan politics. And how about giving all that missile technology to China in the wake of the Challenger disaster so that corporations could still have somebody to put their satellites up in orbit for them. And how do you think he managed to miss the fact that North Korea had been building a plutonium reactor at Yongbyon since 1986? And let's not forget -- though many on the right would certainly like to -- the 1987 stock market crash (actually worse than the one in 1929) or the growing (and ultimately disastrous by pre-Bush-43 standards) S&L crisis. But the worst of it all was the shift to stealing from the poor to give to the rich. Reagan began and advanced the strategy of stripping away money, rights, and power from low-, moderate-, and middle-income workers and families, handing them instead to already wealthy families. It's resulted in all sorts of social dislocations, insecurities, failures, and inefficiencies. America will not last as a great country for long if we continue to follow in the misguided footsteps of Ronald Reagan.

history > liberals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Btw, early road development relates to this - oh,
> wait, it doesn't.

It relates to roads and the history of funding for their construction and maintenance. You'd perhaps be too dumb to have made that connection on your own?

Dr. Memory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> See the current Atlantic article comparing two VA
> counties' quality of life issues. We in FFXCo
> have the luxury of choice in many areas that
> others lack. I'd take the proposition Resolved:
> 'Lifestyles of the Poor and Toothless is the Right
> Wing Holy Land' any day. That is because
> listening carefully to the rhetoric from the
> Reagan personality cult indicates that part of the
> spectrum believes using public funds for quality
> public schools, roads, wastewater treatment,
> vaccinations and other activities that benefit the
> entire population is wrong. Reaganites declare
> Fairfax County anathema because shows how
> government can function well, if not perfectly.

Wow! An adult-sighting!

Before you hurt yourself...



Oh, and the GOP won.

Where are the grown-ups? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Memory Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > blah, blah, blah nonsensical bullshit
>
> Wow! An adult-sighting!


Not sure if Dr. Faggory is an adult or not, but one thing is for sure - he's a fucking retard.

Best part about this is that, just like on I95, for asshole Prius/hybrid fucksticks are going to have to pay like the rest of the single drivers. Sweet!

Dr. Memory is indeed an adult, and is old enough to remember when the Interstate system did not exist. Believe me, you should be aware that the post-WWII economic growth from which we all benefit, and the ease of personal travel we enjoy, would not be possible without the Interstate system. You should also consider, in between bouts of making up lame puns unworthy of this esteemed forum, that the current political machinery would be incapable of conceiving, let alone executing, the funding, planning and construction of the Interstates. The reason for this is the Know-Nothing wing of one party, the one that goes around mindlessly repeating "Government IS the problem" and "Government can't create jobs, only the PRIVATE sector can create jobs" while naming everything in sight for the object of its personality cult even if it already has a name, would recognize the Interstate system as a collective asset that would benefit everyone, but particularly construction workers who would have steady work for about 20 years while the system was built, as well as people with highly marginal economic prospects from places like Appalachia. The Interstate system, which is named for its most prominent proponent, Dwight Eisenhower, is slowly being turned over to foreign corporations that do nothing of benefit for the people of the United States. HOT lanes are one component of the transfer process.

Dr. Memory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Memory is indeed an adult, and is old enough
> to remember when the Interstate system did not
> exist. Believe me, you should be aware that the
> post-WWII economic growth from which we all
> benefit, and the ease of personal travel we enjoy,
> would not be possible without the Interstate
> system. You should also consider, in between
> bouts of making up lame puns unworthy of this
> esteemed forum, that the current political
> machinery would be incapable of conceiving, let
> alone executing, the funding, planning and
> construction of the Interstates. The reason for
> this is the Know-Nothing wing of one party, the
> one that goes around mindlessly repeating
> "Government IS the problem" and "Government can't
> create jobs, only the PRIVATE sector can create
> jobs" while naming everything in sight for the
> object of its personality cult even if it already
> has a name, would recognize the Interstate system
> as a collective asset that would benefit everyone,
> but particularly construction workers who would
> have steady work for about 20 years while the
> system was built, as well as people with highly
> marginal economic prospects from places like
> Appalachia. The Interstate system, which is named
> for its most prominent proponent, Dwight
> Eisenhower, is slowly being turned over to foreign
> corporations that do nothing of benefit for the
> people of the United States. HOT lanes are one
> component of the transfer process.


STFU and go support the private sector in Vienna by buying a mattress.

Dr. Memory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Memory is indeed an adult, and is old enough
> to remember when the Interstate system did not
> exist.


Idiosyncratic and conceited people are known to either use or are lampooned as using illeism to puff themselves up or illustrate their egoism.

I commute into DC using I-66 every morning. I'm in town before 5am, so the HOV restrictions don't affect me. Going home is the same, as long as I am to the Beltway by 4pm, the HOV restrictions don't affect me. There are times, usually on Fridays, that I have to exit I-66 because getting to the Beltway by 4pm is impossible.

Here is my issue with making I-66 all HOT lanes from the Beltway to DC- anyone who uses it outside of HOV restricted times gets screwed. For 20 years I've used I-66 this way and now I have to pay? Didn't I already 'pay' for this road thru taxes? And now to use it, I have to pay again, well actually twice because taxes will still be collected for it to be 'maintained'...

I have the same issue with the HOV lanes on I-95, now those who used the HOV lanes before have to pay extra or take the main lanes, which by the way, they seriously neglect and sure as shit didn't add a lane to.

liberals out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOV lane to be converted to HOT lane.
>
> “We want to create a culture on I-66 where
> people get out of their single occupancy vehicles
> and either carpool or take mass transit. But
> unlike 95, we need to create a culture with
> slugging in that corridor. And we need to have
> rapid bus service in the corridor,” says
> Hamilton."
>
> Liberal garbage. Stop trying to control our
> behavior. I will NEVER slug.

ah the highway to obama. %95 spics and asians helping the facist town of counterfeitng keep safe from white people.

constitutes theft of a State of Virginia roadway

the democrats did not build the roadway , broke many laws to insure control of working on it: which they got gov checks for already. because they "controlled their own pay" there is a fair claim they are criminals and must give back the pay

you can't walk up to a road or building you didn't build, say

"i'm in charge it's mine and i'm selling it"

doesn't work that way , legitimacy never allows that

Where are the grown-ups? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you grow up with Laura Ingalls or something?
> In the early 20th century as automobiles began to
> proliferate, you as a homeowner were responsible
> for maintenance of any roadway your property
> fronted. Just as you are required today to keep a
> sidewalk passable, you had to get out there with
> your rake and hoe and shovel and wheelbarrow and
> keep the road in front of your property passable
> as well. Pretty soon we got to the point of
> realizing that was a stupid paradigm. One day,
> maybe you'll reach that point a swell.

Sorry but my gibberish to English program has broken down. Are you saying that the government giving away its assets to private companies and then guaranteeing those private companies a certain rate of return on those assets is actually a good thing?

Since you referred back to my childhood days you might also recall that if the government provided subsidies to a private company, the government took stock in the companies they subsidized, and in many cases they insisted on controlling a certain number of seats on the company board.

toads don't have to pay !

claim your related to a toad and recently immigrated !
Attachments:

Former Republican Governor Daniels of Indiana transferred the Indiana Tollway to a Spanish consortium for a nominal sum, on the theory that in some way the cash helped Indiana more than the road did. I suppose a corollary would be that the roads in Spain are so much better than ours that it makes sense to get the Americans out of the road business and let the world renowned Spanish road-operating consortium handle it for us. The Daniels sale is the first I heard of. Similarly, the Republicans controlled the government of Virginia when the push to give away the Interstate rights of way to Australia began. Not that there isn't plenty of blame to go around. Ultimately, the fault is every one of ours, as citizens, because we continue to elect the scoundrels who plot and scheme to come up with more such giveaways.

your solution? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would the OP rather have his taxes increased to
> pay for roads?


I would be ok with HOT lanes, with one caveat- Anyone who has lived here for at least 15 years gets to use them for free.

We could also charge more for anyone living west of Fairfax County (GAINESVILLE RESIDENTS).

There used to be a mean troll that lived under a small bridge in Surry County. He charged a nickel to cross over. Highway robbery in the seventies.
But you paid to pass or something would break on your vehicle.

"Republicans" to blame for the HOT fiasco?

That's rich, even coming from you.

Well, one doesn't see lots of Dems screaming for giveaways to the Australians. Democrats would try for an increase in the gas tax, build the road paying union wages, and let all kinds of people drive for free. Then they'd use the fenced transportation money to add road maintenance positions, rather than cut back on the tax.

It's a favorite of the big government crowd, regardless of party.

Being repug truly is a mental disease. Only repugs would celebrate having to pay tolls to a private foreign corporation to use a highway that taxpayers already paid for.

Gainesville and Haymarket keep getting farther from DC. I love watching those commuters slam on their brakes at Sudley Road in the morning.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry but my gibberish to English program has broken down.

That's hardly the only thing.

> Are you saying that the government giving away its
> assets to private companies and then guaranteeing
> those private companies a certain rate of return on
> those assets is actually a good thing?

I was harkening back to a time you did not live through and have plainly never learned about. Notions that private companies today should simply buy up rights-of-way as if this were 100-200 years ago are as archaic as systems of individual citizen responsibility for road maintenance that persisted into the 1920's. Taking a look back, Little River Turnpike was a Greenway-like privately operated toll road as it began in the late 1790's. But the venture would have failed by 1804 had not subsidies from the Commonwealth been forthcoming. There is in fact nothing new going on with HOT lanes, which only make an additional service available to those who are willing to pay for it.

> Since you referred back to my childhood days you
> might also recall that if the government provided
> subsidies to a private company, the government
> took stock in the companies they subsidized, and
> in many cases they insisted on controlling a
> certain number of seats on the company board.

You were a child still when TARP was rolled out? Otherwise, tell us what the state of New York received for granting to the Fulton-Livingston monopoly an exclusive right to steam navigation on the Hudson River. And what price did the federal government exact for conveying exclusive rights-of-way to the railroads in the late 19th century? And tell us how many seats on the board of ConAgra or ADM the government has today. Plainly, you are quite a confused person here.

As human and corporate populations expand and relocate, transportation systems of all sorts need to keep pace as much as, if not more than, other forms of infrastructure. Unfortunately, we have these days a cadre of blind, misguided screamers who make funding these necessary improvements all but impossible via traditional means. If you want to point fingers at the villains responsible for this wave of "public-private partnerships", look no further than the TEA Party.

0tter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gainesville and Haymarket keep getting farther from DC.

As did Centreville and Chantilly before them. And McLean and Vienna before that.

> I love watching those commuters slam on
> their brakes at Sudley Road in the morning.

Sudley Road? What are you doing way out there yourself?

Where are the grown-ups? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And what price did the federal
> government exact for conveying exclusive
> rights-of-way to the railroads in the late 19th
> century?

Since you asked, while the 19th century land grants are frequently referred to as gifts, they came with strings attached, inluding substantial rate reductions on government transportation and lower mail rates, requirements that continued well into the 20th century. Studies done in the last century claim that the savings to the government from these reductions over the long term were greater than the value of the land donated. In addition the U.S. was the owner of the land donated and received a proprietary return from an increase in the value of the adjacent land they retained. The U.S. made financial payments to certain roads in addition to land grants. In return for these the U.S. received bonds from the roads. In other words this example supports my argument.

You can find in the 19th century instances where governments flat out gave away government property to businesses without getting anything in return. You will also find that the practice was condemned as being corrupt. Quite often those government handouts were obtained through bribery, or because the legislators involved had a financial interest. Yes the 19th century had its share of bad people who broke the law, but that does not mean the practice was acceptable then.

> Notions that private companies today should simply
> buy up rights-of-way as if this were 100-200 years
> ago

Then why are utilities and railroads still expected to purchase their rights of way today? It has been traditionally understood that obtaining rights of way might require the use of government machinery such as eminent domain. However the expectation was that the financial resources to actually pay for the property obtained would come from the private company and not from the government. When Dominion Power set out to build its new transmission lines a few years ago, that "archaic" method was the one they used.

> are as archaic as systems of individual
> citizen responsibility for road maintenance that
> persisted into the 1920's.

You keep coming back to that point. Remember though that making citizens responsible for the maintenance of public roads was a form of taxation. Taxation at that time embraced not only an obligation to pay money, but also an obligation of personal service.

> Taking a look back, Little River Turnpike was a Greenway-like
> privately operated toll road as it began in the
> late 1790's. But the venture would have failed by
> 1804 had not subsidies from the Commonwealth been
> forthcoming.

I have not done extensive studies on the corporate history of the Little River Turnpike Company, but reports filed with the Board of Public Works say Virginia took stock in the company, and they received some dividends on that stock. Sounds like another example supporting my position. Virginia also took stock in the Leesburg Turnpike company as well as other ventures. For railroads in Virginia it was not uncommon prior to the War for the state to take up to 60% of the stock.

Dr. Memory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Former Republican Governor Daniels of Indiana
> transferred the Indiana Tollway to a Spanish
> consortium for a nominal sum, on the theory that
> in some way the cash helped Indiana more than the
> road did. I suppose a corollary would be that the
> roads in Spain are so much better than ours that
> it makes sense to get the Americans out of the
> road business and let the world renowned Spanish
> road-operating consortium handle it for us. The
> Daniels sale is the first I heard of. Similarly,
> the Republicans controlled the government of
> Virginia when the push to give away the Interstate
> rights of way to Australia began. Not that there
> isn't plenty of blame to go around. Ultimately,
> the fault is every one of ours, as citizens,
> because we continue to elect the scoundrels who
> plot and scheme to come up with more such
> giveaways.

BULL SHIT

USA tax money isn't the spanish king's money

EVER

be sure to slow down for road workers in Indiana won't you ?

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since you asked, while the 19th century land
> grants are frequently referred to as gifts, they
> came with strings attached, inluding substantial
> rate reductions on government transportation and
> lower mail rates, requirements that continued well
> into the 20th century.

The railroads made millions upon millions in profits from those rights-of-way. They were a gold mine from which the feds may or may not have gotten a token few cents off on mail-carriage rates.

> Studies done in the last century claim that the
> savings to the government from these reductions
> over the long term were greater than the value
> of the land donated.

Were any of those studies done by the railroads? Railroads did not lay track to nowhere. They laid track alongside land that they or their business allies already owned and otherwise frequently took/extorted bribes to build track through one town rather than another.

> In addition the U.S. was the owner of the land
> donated and received a proprietary return from an
> increase in the value of the adjacent land they
> retained.

Actually, the feds gave the railroads millions of acres of land along their free rights-of-way, land that could be sold to finance costs of construction. Not sure where your story came from.

> The U.S. made financial payments to certain roads
> in addition to land grants. In return for these
> the U.S. received bonds from the roads.

Not on any scale. Need to provide examples.

> In other words this example supports my argument.

Well, perhaps if your argument had been that the railroads received huge inflows from the government in exchange for peanuts going the other way. But that actually wasn't your argument.

> Then why are utilities and railroads still
> expected to purchase their rights of way today?
> It has been traditionally understood that
> obtaining rights of way might require the use of
> government machinery such as eminent domain.
> However the expectation was that the financial
> resources to actually pay for the property
> obtained would come from the private company and
> not from the government. When Dominion Power set
> out to build its new transmission lines a few
> years ago, that "archaic" method was the one they
> used.

Eminent domain didn't seem to be what you had in mind in your earlier posts. Did you ever mention it?

> You keep coming back to that point. Remember
> though that making citizens responsible for the
> maintenance of public roads was a form of
> taxation. Taxation at that time embraced not only
> an obligation to pay money, but also an obligation
> of personal service.

You mean it was like a tax or toll, but much less efficient than either taxes or tolls, which is why -- after a century of practice -- it was dropped pretty quickly in favor of taxes and tolls (and good old debt) once the demand for roads began to expand. Even then, it might be well to recall that as recently as 1925, Lee Highway was a single-lane dirt road that crossed Hatmark Branch (between Nutley Street and Blake Lane) as a ford. It was all but impassable after a heavy rain. An actual construction crew (well, a chain-gang actually) would come by to change that shortly.

> I have not done extensive studies on the corporate
> history of the Little River Turnpike Company, but
> reports filed with the Board of Public Works say
> Virginia took stock in the company, and they
> received some dividends on that stock.

Yes, they did take stock. Stock that the company could not sell because there was no market for it. Which was the reason why the private company was on the brink of failure. The modern day term for such stock would be "toxic assets".

> Sounds like another example supporting my position.

Or not.

Reverse commute west. I keep cruise control just under wreckless.

Warner and Kaine were in office when the 495 and 95 HOT lanes deals were signed, yet this is the Republicans doing? The Mixing Bowl project, which was projected to cost $241M but ended up costing $676M, probably killed any chance the state would widen 495 on their own.

HOT wouldn't be considered were it possible to sell bonds to finance construction, and pay for the bonds over 20-30 years via a reasonable increase to the tax on gasoline and diesel, but the mouthing of Know Nothing mantras about No New Taxes and shrinking government until it can be drowned in a bathtub have precluded even contemplating such a solution. The alleged public-private partnership appeals to the voodoo economics devotees who believe it is possible to get something for nothing, that faceless foreign corporations have the well-being of Fairfax County citizens as their raison d'être, and that it makes sense to enable commuting from new McMansions in Haymarket. Fairfax County taxpayers will be expected to tolerate the presence of the Australian toll collectors on our roadways, and to fund the construction of roads for the rest of the commonwealth, as long as we tolerate the presence in government of elected representatives who treat the county as a cash cow.

Claiming that the HOT lanes were a "solution"?

Priceless.

Dr. Memory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOT wouldn't be considered were it possible to
> sell bonds to finance construction, and pay for
> the bonds over 20-30 years via a reasonable
> increase to the tax on gasoline and diesel, but
> the mouthing of Know Nothing mantras about No New
> Taxes and shrinking government until it can be
> drowned in a bathtub have precluded even
> contemplating such a solution. The alleged
> public-private partnership appeals to the voodoo
> economics devotees who believe it is possible to
> get something for nothing, that faceless foreign
> corporations have the well-being of Fairfax County
> citizens as their raison d'être, and that it
> makes sense to enable commuting from new
> McMansions in Haymarket. Fairfax County taxpayers
> will be expected to tolerate the presence of the
> Australian toll collectors on our roadways, and to
> fund the construction of roads for the rest of the
> commonwealth, as long as we tolerate the presence
> in government of elected representatives who treat
> the county as a cash cow.


Obama pushes public-private infrastructure plans

David Jackson, USA TODAY 9:21 a.m. EST January 16, 2015

The Obama administration is proposing new ways to finance road, bridge, and airport projects, including a new form of municipal bond designed to promote public-private partnerships.

The Qualified Public Infrastructure Bonds program "will have no expiration date, no issuance caps, and interest on these bonds will not be subject to the alternative minimum tax," said a White House statement.

Under another proposal, the Environmental Protection Agency and the Agriculture Department will also use existing federal funds to assist private investment in projects that including drinking-water and waste-water systems.

Through these plans, the administration is "calling on federal agencies to find new ways to increase investment in ports, roads, bridges, broadband networks, drinking water and sewer systems and other projects by facilitating partnerships between federal, state and local governments and private sector investors," the White House said.

Vice President Biden will promote the idea Friday at the site of a major infrastructure program in Washington, D.C.,the Anacostia River Tunnel Project Site.

Needs continue to arise. If people want to follow absolute morons like Grover Norquist around and cut off access to tax dollars, other means of financing will be found. If you don't like those either, consider who it was that brought you here in his little yellow TEA Party Taxi to begin with...
.
Attachments:

WASHINGTON, DC – The President today will announce new steps in partnership with the private sector to boost advanced manufacturing, strengthen our capabilities for defense, and attract the types of high-quality jobs that a growing middle class requires. First, the President will announce two new manufacturing innovation institutes led by the Department of Defense supported by a $140 million Federal commitment combined with more than $140 million in non-federal resources: (1) Detroit-area headquartered consortium of businesses and universities, with a focus on lightweight and modern metals manufacturing; (2) Chicago headquartered consortium of businesses and universities that will concentrate on digital manufacturing and design technologies.

Hey numb nuts ... paying for infrastructure by the drink is a conservative principle.

Liberals would say ... Tax everyone and build something everyone can use.

Conservatives say ... Let everyone keep their money and let the market discover a solution. (Like selling 495 to a private company for 75 years). Then it will be each person's decision if I want to spend their money on the road or not. However, in this scenario -- the rich get to decide, but the middle class and poor don't.

Got it?

SENS. WARNER, KAINE APPLAUD OVER $18M IN USDA FUNDING FOR CHESAPEAKE BAY PROJECTS

Wednesday, January 14, 2015

WASHINGTON –U.S. Sens. Mark R. Warner (D-VA) and Tim Kaine (D-VA) applauded U.S. Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack’s announcement today that Virginia projects will receive over $18 million in federal funding for Chesapeake Bay restoration through the USDA Regional Conservation Partnership Program (RCPP). USDA announced today that the RCPP will allocate more than $370 million in competitive grants for conservation projects across the country for the next two years. As part of the 2014 Agricultural Act, Sens. Warner and Kaine worked with colleagues to streamline USDA conservation programs while designating the Chesapeake Bay as one of the nation’s top conservation priorities.

“These Bay conservation projects are voluntary and locally-driven, and that’s a great way to move us closer to achieving the goal of restoring the Chesapeake Bay,” Sen. Warner said. “We know that these public-private partnerships can leverage significant additional investments, and that’s a key part in delivering cost-effective solutions to clean the Bay.”

“Agricultural conservation is good for farmers and good for the environment,” said Sen. Kaine. “Fostering wide community support for land and water conservation was an important priority of mine as Governor. I was proud to support the 2014 farm bill in the Senate last year that authorized these important measures to protect the Chesapeake Bay and other critical watersheds.”

The public-private partnership described in the USA Today piece sounds like standard bond issue financing. Dr. Memory suspect the public-private label was grafted on. Selling bonds is otherwise known as deficit spending. That has its own drawbacks these days. The meaning of public-private, in cases like the HOT lanes, seems to be the private sector will put up some cash toward constructing a perceived solution, and the public can line up to go through the tollbooth. In the case of Republican Governor Daniels, he just sold the road to the Spanish consortium without any discernible improvement, as anyone who uses the Indiana Toll Road will attest. In the interest of fairness, let us acknowledge that Mayor Daley sold the right to operate Chicago's parking meters to a private sector corporation, for cash, and the consensus is he got suckered, big time.

Kaine on the Transportation Session

Posted on August 31, 2006 by James A. Bacon

In a blog conference held this afternoon, Gov. Timothy M. Kaine laid out his expectations for the upcoming transportation session of the General Assembly. Abandoning the proposal he pushed earlier this year to raise taxes by $1 billion a year, he will focus on areas of common agreement with the Senate and the tax-averse House of Delegates.

The Governor said he hopes to make progress in three broad areas: (1) reform and privatization of the Virginia Department of Transportation; (2) making the connection between transportation and land use planning; and (3) bolstering stable, ongoing transportation funding through the dedication of more modest revenue streams than he’d proposed earlier this year.

VDOT reform. VDOT has made significant improvements in delivering construction projects on time and on budget, but that’s just a start. Kaine said he expects to see more construction performed under public-private partnerships, and to see an increase in the percentage of road maintenance conducted by private contractors. He anticipates additional VDOT reform bills to surface in the special session.

Fix Transportation Now

New Administration Will Target Gridlock

By Governor Tim Kaine

The people of Virginia have given us a clear and urgent mission: Fix our transportation system and fix it now. That is the message they sent last November, and that message must be our directive for the 2006 General Assembly session...

We must use tools like public-private partnerships creatively to tap private sector resources as we move forward on vital, big-ticket projects like extending Metro Rail to Dulles Airport.

TERRY’S PLATFROM [sic] FOR PUTTING VIRGINIA FIRST: TRANSPORTATION

Strengthen the Virginia Department of Transportation...

Getting the best deal for Virginia...

Public/private partnerships are a critically important tool for Virginia’s transportation future. Projects like the HOT lanes represent win-win deals for the public and for our private partners...

From the office of Gov. Terry McAuliffe

ALEXANDRIA - Gov. Terry McAuliffe announced today that the 95 Express Lanes on I-95 in Northern Virginia are opening early and on budget. The new lanes will open on December 14 to drivers, who have an opportunity to enjoy them for free until tolling commences on December 29...

The 95 Express Lanes are being delivered through a public-private partnership between the Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT), the Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transportation, the Federal Highway Administration, and Transurban. Fluor-Lane 95 LLC constructed the lanes.

The partnership with private partner Transurban enabled the Commonwealth to leverage private-sector expertise and use innovative financing tools. The success of the project was aided by the Virginia State Police and local law enforcement, as well as state and local elected officials.

Gov. McAuliffe continued, “The 95 Express Lanes project is a model of how P3 projects should be done. Transurban shared in the risk, bringing private capital to the table and putting the money to work for motorists and ultimately Virginia’s economy. I want to congratulate Transurban and thank them for completing this project early and on budget.

[To his credit, McAuliffe did at the same time lend support to another piece of legislation which would put some added scrutiny and checks on future deals like these.]

Taxes to VDOT or tolls to Transurban. How do you want to pay?

[PS. Everyone now knows your Google works.]

Path of least resistance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxes to VDOT or tolls to Transurban. How do you
> want to pay?
>
> [PS. Everyone now knows your Google works.]


Taxes and tolls. That way people see the true costs for such things rather than attempting to hide them on the front end and assuming all of the cost and risk on the back end.

[Just proving the point with a sledge hammer that this stuff doesn't come, as you suggested, from "Grover Norquist" or have a lot to do with cutting off tax funding. Politicians on all sides like "free" money which lets them deliver "stuff" like this now without hitting the pocketbooks of their voters. Typically with little concern for what happens down the line after they're long gone.]

At this point, nothing is gonna fix 66 because whoever designed it in the 1960's didn't foresee the issues that we now face populationwise and property value wise. The only sane option is to decommission 66 and figure out a way to rebuild it while the current 66 becomes a toll road.

This isn't so much of an issue of people living in Haymarket and commuting 2 hours to DC with poor driving skills that cause erratic traffic patterns but rather more of an issue that there's too many people period. Or have people forgotten just how packed Rosslyn gets during rush hour?

When Metro is running on full capacity to run to the western side of Fairfax, compiled with the fact that both Blue line and Orange line riders now have reduced service (remember folks, Orange line trains don't run as often to allow Silver line trans to run more frequently), you kinda start to realize you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't see why they hype up the toll roads with saying "we will add more public transportation options"... That's a bold faced lie! Neither Metro nor the county have the funds to support one off runs to nowhere. Hell, half of the time, the Fairfax Connector buses run empty... at least in the 66 area.


At this point 3 things need to happen... which probably won't:

1. There needs to be a 3rd entry into DC via Metrorail. You can't expand the orange line without seperating the mess at Rosslyn, and something tells me it's either the Orange or the Silver that needs to get its own right of way. They always talk that the Blue line should be seperaetd at Rosslyn, but the Blue line doesn't have issues, especially when the Blue line now only has 2 solitary stations (Franconia and Van Dorn). Otherwise the provision for an extended Orange line does us no good... even if we're all gone by the time that idea even starts being buit.

2. Like it or not, 66 either has to be decommissioned or it has to be widened... this means that something in Arlington is gonna have to give. Either that or it ends up being crossed into DC via the Chain Bridge Road area with a new bridge in new territory. The area closer to McLean in Arlington is more open than where 66 sits now. The other option is removing the shoulders, widening the road to 3 lanes but very narrowly similar to how DC295 is. That would mean it wouldn't be an official interstate anymore but a state road which more likely than not tolled.

3. The whole grid in this area needs to be reworked and it would require input from Maryland and DC as well. People complain about lack of crossings into/out of DC, the fact that the AL bridge needs to be widened, and general traffic issues in "one way in, one way out" areas.

The Know Nothing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taxes and tolls. That way people see the true
> costs for such things rather than attempting to
> hide them on the front end and assuming all of the
> cost and risk on the back end.

What a dimbulb. Taxes and tolls are the same thing, save that One is generalized and one is localized. People meanwhile do not fail to notice either one. What they might not notice is borrowing -- which is why it is common to require a referendum to approve significant issuances of debt.

> [Just proving the point with a sledge hammer that
> this stuff doesn't come, as you suggested, from
> "Grover Norquist" or have a lot to do with cutting
> off tax funding. Politicians on all sides like
> "free" money which lets them deliver "stuff" like
> this now without hitting the pocketbooks of their
> voters. Typically with little concern for what
> happens down the line after they're long gone.]

God, you're slow. You can't get tax increases passed without the Screaming Meemies people coming at you, This is thanks to morons on the right such as Ronald Reagan for one and Grover Norquist for another, but it's a fact of life for everybody. AND if you can't get the taxes you need, you simply take corporate money instead. As if it didn't come from the very same place. Seriously, you people are incredibly obtuse when it comes to these matters.

While there is plenty of blame to go around, the mantra that has made taxation an impossibility originated on the political right. The first instance of the phrase Tax And Spend used as a pejorative that Dr. Memory can recall was during the Carter-Reagan election of 1980. The Great Prevaricator trotted out the still-usable memes of balancing the budget by eliminating waste, fraud and abuse, cutting taxes to raise revenue, and turning over government to contractors from the private sector, who will do the same quality of work for less. All of that is still resonating today. Unfortunately, when ordinary people needed the Democratic Party of Harry Truman and FDR to grow a spine and continue to tell the truth while the electorate recovered its senses, what they got was the pragmatist Clintonites who were all too ready to accept the proposition that it was impossible to raise taxes. Trying to straddle the gap between demonstrated public needs and the refusal by the electorate to pay for capital projects, the Democrats have acceded to the siren song of public-private partnerships.

Say what you will, Clinton was certainly better than four more years of ruinous Republican rule. Sadly he was but an eight-year interlude, after which the disastrousness quickly resumed. Clinton in any case came into office hoping to pass his Middle Class Bill of Rights tax cut package, but his advisors pointed out that the Republicans had so badly screwed up the federal budget that tax increases were going to be needed first. Enter the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993. The tax cuts had to wait until 1997, by which time some semblance of order had been restored.

Otherwise, you are quite right about the "tobacco company" tactics used by Republicans over the past 40 years or so. Jerry Falwell had studied and made extensive use of those, and he brought them along when the neocon GOP absorbed the Christian fundie right-wing in a desperate post-Watergate, post-Vietnam bid for numbers. In their turn, the now corporate-controlled right-wing does indeed have the stupid all tied up in knots and consistently believing and voting against their own best interests. It's gotten pretty pathetic at this point.

Indeed, the owners of the capital assets of our civilization are being convinced it is their best interest to give said assets to the wealthy, who will then magnanimously rent them back to the owners. It is quite ingenious, from a certain perspective.

Dr. Memory Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Indeed, the owners of the capital assets of our
> civilization are being convinced it is their best
> interest to give said assets to the wealthy, who
> will then magnanimously rent them back to the
> owners. It is quite ingenious, from a certain
> perspective.

Or one alternative to parking funds in some financial market is to invest them in some public-private partnership project in return for rights to set up an income stream in return. Roads today, water supplies tomorrow.

^ I see the resident Asshole has gone off of his meds and is talking to himself again. lol