has there been any documented cases where having a concealed handgun permit
in Fairfax County, or anywhere in Virginia, has saved someone's life?

Nope. But there are plenty of cases where a concealed handgun saved some people's lives. The permit doesn't really do much when you throw it at them, even if it's laminated.

One that I directly remember was at the saratoga pool, in springfield back in the late 90's. A family was throwing a pool party for their daughter's 16th birthday (you can rent it out after hours, and my friend was a lifeguard at the party). Several older males showed up and tried to get into the party. The father told them to leave, an argument broke out, and both of the party-crashers pulled guns, and fired at the father. They missed, he dropped to one knee, pulled out his gun, and shot and killed both of them.

This was in both the washington post, and the times, so it should be something you can search. He wasn't an off-duty cop, and I don't believe that he was in the VCDL, since if he was, he'd be plastered all over every webpage that they have as their savior.

I'm sure you can get other "incidences" from the VCDL, and various other pro-gun websites, but I'd take those with a grain of salt. I also don't trust cancer statistics from the Marlboro Institute.

Not according to Vince.

And if someone could also provide some documented cases where police officers prevented home invasions and muggings if would be great to see those too. If police can now be somewhere before an incident occurs so they can stop criminals before they attack me (kind of like Minority Report) then maybe I won't need my permit as much.

Of course! That's why the police run ads telling people to go get a concealed handgun permit!

There were three meth heads high and drunk robbing a Safeway with shotguns and one of the customers had a concealed handgun. The guy pulled out his handgun, told the methheads to surrender and all the the meth heads put down their shotguns and surrendered to him. Later that day the concealed handgun permit holder took all the meth heads to church where they were saved by God.

Anyone remember the case of Carl Rowan, the Washington Post columnist? He was a huge advocate of totally banning firearms of all kinds. Unfortunately he owned an illegal handgun himself and used it to shoot a young man who was trespassing in his swimming pool. He had enough money to lawyer up good and confuse a DC jury ( there's a feat) and got a mistrial. Never tried again in court.

This just occurred on March 12th:

Pickpocket in Woodlawn Area

A 68-year-old Lorton-area man and his wife, a 65-year-old woman, were walking together in the 8300 block of Frye Road around 3:40 p.m. on Wednesday, March 11, when a man came up behind them. The suspect took the husband’s wallet from his pant pocket. The husband, who was legally carrying a concealed handgun, retrieved his gun and shot at the suspect. The suspect fled the scene in a teal, four-door car. The victim and his wife were not hurt during the incident.

The suspect was described as black. He was approximately 6 feet tall, heavyset, with short hair. He was wearing a light gray, short sleeve T-shirt which might have had blue paint marks on it.

Anyone with information is asked to contact Crime Solvers by phone at 1-866-411-TIPS(8477), e-mail at www.fairfaxcrimesolvers.org or text “TIP187” plus your message to CRIMES(274637) or call Fairfax County Police at 703-691-2131.


Others: ============================================

Mar 2009 (in DC)
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Off-Duty-Cop-Kills-Masked-Gunman.html

In 1997 at Pearl High School in Mississippi a student, Luke Woodham, went on a shooting rampage and was stopped by the school’s assistant principal after he retrieved a handgun from his truck. Vice Principal Joel Myrick was able to subdue the young man at gunpoint until the police arrived.

A year later there was a shooting at a school dance in Edinboro, Pennsylvania, which was ended abruptly by a local restaurant owner, who showed up with a shotgun and disarmed the shooter before he could kill anyone else.

In 2002, two students at Appalachian School of Law in Virginia used their personal firearms to end a shooter’s rampage; they were able to hold the shooter until the police arrived.

Jeanne Assam, used a handgun to stop a deranged gunman in a Colorado mega-church who had killed four people. The wounded gunman then turned his gun on himself.

The national news ran headlines a few days later saying she "had not KILLED" the gunman, but if you read a little deeper it was apparent that she put enough holes in him to stop any further killing on his part.

I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.

Not in fairfax but you get the point.

In Virginia you don't even have to conceal your handgun. Open carry (like cops do on the waistband) is legal across the state. NoVA included.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it...

http://vaguninfo.com/pages/opencarry.htm

I meant you don't need to have a permit to open carry.

You just need to a) own a handgun and b) be 18

In the case of the BMW where the hillbillies follow you with the intent to hurt you, you still need a permit to store a firearm loaded in the glove compartment for those kinds of situations.

I don't know if that video was faked or not, and it was risky leading those rednecks into a secluded area, but it was smart to grab the camera and their keys. I would have ordered the dude with the camera to drop it on the ground and kick it to me though instead of sending my chick to get it.

the vid is fake, sorry

The video is a hoax and demonstrates some things you should NOT do during a hostile encounter.

As for documented cases, yes there are a few from the past few years, I will have to do some research to find the links again.

It appears I have deleted all my bookmarks. Just do a google search, you're bound to come up with some instances. Part of the problem, though, is that more often than not people will not report it to the police if they scared someone off by drawing their gun. Why get the cops involved if no one was hurt? And if there is no police record of it, then the main stream media will never hear of it. Even if you do tell the police and the media, is it really worth reporting that some guy some where scared off some thugs and no one was hurt? Is that news-worthy in the eyes of the editor of the paper? Probably not.

This occurred on March 16th in Woodbridge:
http://www.insidenova.com/isn/news/local/article/one_burglar_shot_another_stabbed_in_home_invasion/31979/

There was another occurrence in Richmond, but nothing else reported in Fairfax County in the past few months.

Here is a website that has a kind of list of some of the defensive gun use stories:
http://www.goodguyswin.org/

I was interested in finding a place to practice my archery and maybe learn some pistol skills. Has anyone used the Arlington-Fairfax Izaak Walton League of America in Centreville? The web site info looks good...any information is appreciated...thanks.

boristhebulletdodger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Part of the problem, though, is
> that more often than not people will not report it
> to the police if they scared someone off by
> drawing their gun. Why get the cops involved if no
> one was hurt?

Actually the first thing you should do if you have to draw a gun in self-defense is call the police as soon as it is safe. There is nothing stopping a criminal from calling the cops and telling them a dude with your license plate and description pulled a gun on him for no reason. The first to call is usually the one they are going to believe.

Plus if there are roaming bad guys in the area the police should know.

boristhebulletdodger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The video is a hoax and demonstrates some things
> you should NOT do during a hostile encounter.

+1

That nimrod pretty much did everything you shouldn't do in the fictional event that was portrayed.

An adversary within twenty feet, like the actor in the vid, with a bat or knife is a dangerous threat. An attacker can close that distance in around two seconds. One has to be proficient with a firearm to engage a moving target with a disabling shot.

Posted by: Lou ()
Date: April 03, 2009 02:05PM


In Virginia you don't even have to conceal your handgun. Open carry (like cops do on the waistband) is legal across the state. NoVA included.

So put that in your pipe and smoke it...

[vaguninfo.com]

-----------------------------------------
Ha ha ha ha! That's my website LOL!

Rowsdower Wrote:
> An adversary within twenty feet, like the actor in
> the vid, with a bat or knife is a dangerous
> threat. An attacker can close that distance in
> around two seconds. One has to be proficient with
> a firearm to engage a moving target with a
> disabling shot.

I've also heard when all your blood/adrenaline is pumping, hitting the broadside of a barn from 20 feet can be an issue. I've heard (from sources here and in my family) a shotgun is probably best for 100% home defense (as opposed to hobby/sport use).

Not in VA, this happened in California. Guy was robbed 4 separate times and succeeded in repelling attackers in each case. 4 dead criminals are the end result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkWgp2abM2w

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rowsdower Wrote:
> > An adversary within twenty feet, like the actor
> in
> > the vid, with a bat or knife is a dangerous
> > threat. An attacker can close that distance in
> > around two seconds. One has to be proficient
> with
> > a firearm to engage a moving target with a
> > disabling shot.
>
> I've also heard when all your blood/adrenaline is
> pumping, hitting the broadside of a barn from 20
> feet can be an issue. I've heard (from sources
> here and in my family) a shotgun is probably best
> for 100% home defense (as opposed to hobby/sport
> use).

A shotgun is best for home defense because of the close quarters inside a house or apartment, but more importantly, the shot from a shotgun shell will lose a lot of its force after a short distance. A handgun round can easily punch through drywall or windows and still have enough force to kill or seriously injure a neighbor.

I bought a handgun for home defense before I knew that, so I'm going to get a shotgun first chance I get for that very reason.

Back to the topic, though, I found this after a couple minutes of lazy surfing. Not NOVA, but the principle is the same. http://www.thedetroitreport.com/oc2/

The mature, responsible CCW owners actually hope they never have to take it out of its holster.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2009 06:25PM by MrMephisto.

Yes there are plenty of examples. I'm sure if you go to the NRA page you can get some or call them up. Also lets just look at the fact that DC has outlawed basically all weapons for self protection and look at that crime rate compared to Fairfax. When asked at a DC Jail why they don't go VA to commit crimes most stated to many guns.

There are plenty of cases where gun owners or kids have been killed by guns, mostly suicides and careless playing around.

Like this idiot

Cranky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There are plenty of cases where gun owners or kids
> have been killed by guns, mostly suicides and
> careless playing around.
>
> Like this idiot
>
>

What the hell happened?

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

What a crappy photographer. Doesn't have a clue what to film.

court Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes there are plenty of examples. I'm sure if you
> go to the NRA page you can get some or call them
> up. Also lets just look at the fact that DC has
> outlawed basically all weapons for self protection
> and look at that crime rate compared to Fairfax.
> When asked at a DC Jail why they don't go VA to
> commit crimes most stated to many guns.

Uh, don't know the source on your DC Jail quote, but the reason that they don't come here is because they know that they'll go away for a while if they get caught. DC and Maryland slap you on the wrist, but Virginia's laws have some teeth to them. A friend of mine from high school (he's obviously sub-standard because it wasn't Langley, Mclean, or Oakton) is an Arlington cop, and he says that most of the small time hoods don't realize what they're in for when they get caught.

HebrewHammer Wrote:
> Uh, don't know the source on your DC Jail quote,
> but the reason that they don't come here is
> because they know that they'll go away for a while
> if they get caught. DC and Maryland slap you on
> the wrist, but Virginia's laws have some teeth to
> them. A friend of mine from high school (he's
> obviously sub-standard because it wasn't Langley,
> Mclean, or Oakton) is an Arlington cop, and he
> says that most of the small time hoods don't
> realize what they're in for when they get caught.

Did he go to South Lakes?

formerhick76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HebrewHammer Wrote:
> > Uh, don't know the source on your DC Jail
> quote,
> > but the reason that they don't come here is
> > because they know that they'll go away for a
> while
> > if they get caught. DC and Maryland slap you
> on
> > the wrist, but Virginia's laws have some teeth
> to
> > them. A friend of mine from high school (he's
> > obviously sub-standard because it wasn't
> Langley,
> > Mclean, or Oakton) is an Arlington cop, and he
> > says that most of the small time hoods don't
> > realize what they're in for when they get
> caught.
>
> Did he go to South Lakes?

South Lakes? I said he was sub-standard, not a dope smoking minority who will get your daughter pregnant and introduce your son to smoking heroin out of a bong made from his bible.

tabasco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> has there been any documented cases where having a
> concealed handgun permit > in Fairfax County, or anywhere
> in Virginia, has saved someone's life?

Yes, there have been.

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> A shotgun is best for home defense because of the
> close quarters inside a house or apartment, but
> more importantly, the shot from a shotgun shell
> will lose a lot of its force after a short
> distance. A handgun round can easily punch
> through drywall or windows and still have enough
> force to kill or seriously injure a neighbor.

A shotgun is an excellent choice.

If you are using a handgun, consider using frangible rounds.

But a shotgun is easier to use and aim.

HebrewHammer Wrote:
> South Lakes? I said he was sub-standard, not a
> dope smoking minority who will get your daughter
> pregnant and introduce your son to smoking heroin
> out of a bong made from his bible.

Wait a minute. Heroin users all go to Westfield.

b) 21 for handgun, 18 for rifle.

Chris Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> b) 21 for handgun, 18 for rifle.


21 to BUY a handgun from a gun store (federally licensed dealer) because of the federal law stating so. 18 to own / possess / buy privately. http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.7



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2009 05:04PM by Lawman.