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Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: JT Gatto fan ()
Date: November 28, 2014 07:05PM

I’m thinking about this now with the FCPS suicides in the news again (CDC meetings)…

My sister’s son tried to drop an honors class in an FCPS school last year. Apparently you can’t do this without signing a form that says, essentially, “I’m a failure, let me out” and meeting three times with the teacher. OK, it was more like, “here are the reasons that I am unable to succeed in this class,” but the general sense is the same. What’s the goal? Make the kid fee even worse about herself? She actually liked the teacher, it was just too hard with all her other class work.

My guess is that the reason has to do with administrative efficiency, but at what cost? Meeting with the teacher at least once makes sense, but why rub it in?

I have no idea if any of the recent suicides tried to drop an AP/honors class and faced this form, but things like this sure let you know where the mental health of the students ranks. No amount of meditation, yoga or whatever coping strategies are offered now makes up for the fixable problems caused by the school itself.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: Cornell ()
Date: November 28, 2014 07:15PM

Give her some warm milk and cookies and tell her that it's ok that she is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Also tell her that there is a "special" college just for people like her and it's called NOVA.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: JT Gatto fan ()
Date: November 28, 2014 07:24PM

Cornell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Give her some warm milk and cookies and tell her
> that it's ok that she is not the sharpest tool in
> the shed. Also tell her that there is a "special"
> college just for people like her and it's called
> NOVA.

Spoken like a caring FCPS teacher or parent… (not all of them, but a too large and visible subset)

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: out of the park ()
Date: November 28, 2014 10:33PM

"Spoken like a caring FCPS teacher or parent… (not all of them, but a too large and visible subset)"

+1000

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: Doctor Robert ()
Date: November 29, 2014 09:40AM

Some FCPS parents, a too large and visible subset, can't quite come to terms with the reality that their child is slow or intellectually challenged (i.e. stoopid).

The fact that your child can't handle one simple AP class means two things:


A. College is not a viable option. Or to put it more succinctly, flunked out of college, money spent. See no future, pay no rent. All the money's gone, nowhere to go.


B. Now that all the extreme pressures of actually STUDYING HARDER to pass ONE AP class are over; some wonderful new and exciting opportunity's now present themselves for your child.

Good news! The fast food industry (average estimated 2024 entry level salary of $11.50 an hour) is now hiring. After 3 to 5 years on the tenure fast fast food track your child may, just may, be able to move up to assistant shift leader. From there the sky's the limit. Encourage your child to grab the bull by the horns and dream big.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: A true fcps nigga^ ()
Date: November 29, 2014 10:48AM

A true fcps nigga^

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: JT Gatto fan ()
Date: November 29, 2014 11:14AM

I completely agree that college is not for everyone. Four years of debt to get a useless degree or, worse, a few years of debt with no degree is setting kids up for a dim future. We really do our children a disservice by telling them that college is the only option.

I disagree that you need to be able to pass AP classes, especially as a sophomore or junior to prove college readiness. By definition, these are college level classes, and we’re talking about 15-16 year olds. I also can’t believe that, say, American History at some average state university is harder than AP history at FCPS. Essentially, you’re saying that if you can’t do college level work at an above-average university when you’re 16, you don’t belong in college.

But that gets back to my original post – should students be pressured / shamed to stay in an honors class where they don’t belong? Maybe it’s the student taking 3 AP classes that wants to drop down to two. Maybe it’s someone who was pressured into taking a class, or wanted to try challenging themselves and bit off more than they could chew. Maybe that had stuff going on in their lives that kept them from keeping up that particular semester. My thesis is that the “I’m a failure” drop form is an example of what seems like a-college-at all-costs-or-you’re-a-looser attitude that may be present in FCPS.

I should have also put the question from my post title in the body of my post – does anyone on here have experience with this honors/AP class drop form or think there is a culture of shaming / disapproving in FCPS of people who aren’t college material or top 10% college material?

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: Touch down ()
Date: November 29, 2014 12:01PM

Doctor Robert Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some FCPS parents, a too large and visible subset,
> can't quite come to terms with the reality that
> their child is slow or intellectually challenged
> (i.e. stoopid).
>

+10,000

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: Online ()
Date: November 29, 2014 12:05PM

The easiest way to drop an Honors or AP class is to switch to an online course.

No need to deal with the school administration.

The only caveats that I am aware of are:

1. To make is seemless you need them Honors or AP class to be a 1st or last block class. If your school does Even/Odd schedule it can be basically Block 1, 2 or 7.

2. The Online courses cannot be filled up. I hear current Online course are WAY overfilled at this point and you may not be able to make the jump this late in the school year.

I know many cases of Honor/AP or standard classes where kids dropped often due to bad teachers, took the same course online and did MUCH better than if they would have stayed in the class at school.

I have also heard in some cases, so many kids dropped out and took Online classes the "bad" teachers only had 6-7 students left in the normal class at school.

Pretty easy for the School Administration to understand that something bad is going on with teachers that have as few as 10 kids still enrolled.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: TBT ()
Date: November 29, 2014 01:16PM

The reason they establish a procedure to switch out of such classes is that scheduling seats is far more complex than most parents realize. If you were to predict how many will leave an honors or AP section you must leave those seats empty in general classes as well as overfill the honors and AP classes. The reason they want them to go for extra help is to see if with extra help they could succeed. The child should not feel like a loser, but if the parent pushed a child to take a course that they are not suited for to get the extra grade-point bump then the parent should feel like a loser. Currently over 3/4ths of each class in many high schools are in honors or AP sections especially for English. Don't you think that there is something wrong with that percentage? FCPS is open enrollment therefore there are many students in courses without the ability,the background, or the drive to succeed.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: Very True ()
Date: November 29, 2014 01:27PM

TBT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reason they establish a procedure to switch
> out of such classes is that scheduling seats is
> far more complex than most parents realize. If you
> were to predict how many will leave an honors or
> AP section you must leave those seats empty in
> general classes as well as overfill the honors and
> AP classes. The reason they want them to go for
> extra help is to see if with extra help they could
> succeed. The child should not feel like a loser,
> but if the parent pushed a child to take a course
> that they are not suited for to get the extra
> grade-point bump then the parent should feel like
> a loser. Currently over 3/4ths of each class in
> many high schools are in honors or AP sections
> especially for English. Don't you think that there
> is something wrong with that percentage? FCPS is
> open enrollment therefore there are many students
> in courses without the ability,the background, or
> the drive to succeed.

Very True.

As usual it is far more about the parents then the kids.

Made sure my kids signed up and "owned" their choices.

My kids did well and never dropped any Honors or AP courses.

I actually tried to talk my kid out of taking 3 AP courses their Senior year, but they did not want to back down,they owned it and did well.

But every kid is different, I know kids that took 6 AP's their Senior year and other kids that never took any AP or Honors courses.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: JT Gatto fan ()
Date: November 29, 2014 01:45PM

Online – thanks. It’s an option for some students even if it’s somewhat limited now. I’m in favor of anything that gives the students more options.

TBT – thanks as well. I assumed there was a schedule / resource allocation issue in my original post, but you’re right, I don’t know the details. I’m not saying students should be able to walk into and out of advanced courses at will. And who am I to say that meeting once with a teacher is better than meeting three times? Those are administrative details and probably resulted from some kind of compromise.

My main concern was what I called the shaming aspect of the withdrawal, the “here’s why I didn’t succeed” especially in the context of the suicides (and add depression, self-harm, suicide attempts, etc.) of the past few years. That language probably does keep some kids from dropping a course, but at what cost? And are there other ways students are made to feel bad about themselves in school as well.

Finally, I didn’t know the percentages of students taking AP and honors classes. It does sound like a problem. Maybe I’ll start a thread on that or respond furhter to your comment after I think a bit.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: TBT ()
Date: November 29, 2014 01:52PM

Beware of the myth that online classes are easier. They often are anything but easy with the exception of Financial Literacy. All success on-line rides on organization and self discipline. I can only speak to my school and that of my spouse, but there are NO classes at our respective schools down to 10-11 due to "bad teachers" but then again we are at good schools with good kids and for the most part great parents. The best thing a parent such as "very true" models is to give guidance to their child about not overloading. Taking 5-7 AP classes per year is ridiculous and will NOT get you into Harvard or Yale. Too often the parents don't realize that in the school's mind, the schedule crafted in the spring IS the schedule. Staffing and hiring depends on solid, firm numbers. Students shouldn't try a course like an item on a buffet and then spit it out if it does not suit their taste, or their ability!

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: KNmYw ()
Date: November 29, 2014 02:17PM

TBT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beware of the myth that online classes are easier.
> They often are anything but easy with the
> exception of Financial Literacy. All success
> on-line rides on organization and self discipline.
> I can only speak to my school and that of my
> spouse, but there are NO classes at our respective
> schools down to 10-11 due to "bad teachers" but
> then again we are at good schools with good kids
> and for the most part great parents. The best
> thing a parent such as "very true" models is to
> give guidance to their child about not
> overloading.

Note that starting with 2017 graduates, all FCPS students are "REQUIRED" to take at least 1 online class to graduate.

I have know a NUMBER of parents who's kids have switched out to Online for Honors/AP and in general they have maybe not been "easier" but they have been more consistent, the teachers more accommodating the home work load was more manageable. Maybe because these classes are daily and not every other day??

Do note that online PE is actually a bit harder/administratively challenging.

But also beware that FCPS is starting to outsource a number of classes due to the volume and the lack of FCPS teachers to support the number of online classes currently due to the number of kids enrolling.

My kids are in a very good school, but there are a few, maybe about half a dozen teachers that should be kicked to the curb and should have been kicked to the curb years ago. These are just USELESS teachers that do not even belong in the profession and yes, over the past few years a number of these teachers have been down to less than 12 kids in the class due to many moving out to online courses. EVERY kid that moved out to the online course had NO issues and actually learned more and did better than their peers that stayed in the USELESS teachers classes.

This is real and this probably happens at a number of schools.

And yes, the parents need to help balance the kids choices, but often what happens is a parent hears that "Johnny" is taking X amount of Honors or AP courses and the parents things their "Jimmy" is as smart or smarter than "Johnny" and should do the same or more! Again, this is real world.

Best thing to do is not speak about your kid with other parents in the same school and do not listen to what many other parents tell you. I have even run into situations where parents lie or stretch the truth about what their kid is taking to attempt to sabotage other kids they feel are "competition".

So sad, but also true, this is Fairfax County/Northern VA. What do you expect!

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: Blame Game ()
Date: November 29, 2014 03:47PM

If you went to a school where they did Boosterthon, explain that Boosterthon ate up so much in class time that you could not meet the learning objectives. Then, let Karen Garza know what a joke the schools have become.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: jsutathought ()
Date: November 29, 2014 03:55PM

JT Gatto fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m thinking about this now with the FCPS
> suicides in the news again (CDC meetings)…
>
> My sister’s son tried to drop an honors class in
> an FCPS school last year. Apparently you can’t
> do this without signing a form that says,
> essentially, “I’m a failure, let me out” and
> meeting three times with the teacher. OK, it was
> more like, “here are the reasons that I am
> unable to succeed in this class,” but the
> general sense is the same. What’s the goal?
> Make the kid fee even worse about herself? She
> actually liked the teacher, it was just too hard
> with all her other class work.
>
> My guess is that the reason has to do with
> administrative efficiency, but at what cost?
> Meeting with the teacher at least once makes
> sense, but why rub it in?
>
> I have no idea if any of the recent suicides tried
> to drop an AP/honors class and faced this form,
> but things like this sure let you know where the
> mental health of the students ranks. No amount of
> meditation, yoga or whatever coping strategies are
> offered now makes up for the fixable problems
> caused by the school itself.


I think the schoosl get mad because they let kids and parents pick if they want to take honors, and they all do, until its hard and they want to drop it and the schedule is made and filled so the THE SCHOOL SAYS DAMMIT NOW WE HAVE TO change the whole schedule and put them in a crowded class for one BAD grade, . Usually if the school does not recommend you take a class you should not take it . Once of my kids got recommended for honors math and I should have trusted my gut and not put him in it. he hates doing homework and did have it him in to do the hard work . my other kids I put in because he is a hard worker and it worked out. Don't fall in the trap of talking your kid into getting the self esteem from school or honor classes They really should back to the old way where most kids take regular classes . Many kids in high school are still maturing and figuring out social issues and even if they have the ability do not have the maturity to spend hours doing work they are not ready for . You can still get through high school with regular class and go to college and get out with being a complete basket case. Do not fall for the hype Also Junior high school classes are not really honor classes (with the exception of Math ) like high school classes are.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: fcps parent ()
Date: November 29, 2014 07:53PM

There are a few teachers in our HS that are down to 10-12 kids. Mostly due to being difficult teachers, i.e. won't let kids come in 1 minute late 1st block and not posting hw to blackboard. To switch to on-line classes you do not have to admit failure or meet w/ teacher but do have to fill out a form for your counselor.

My kids have found on-line to fit their schedules better because you can do your homework at your own pace and you always know the homework in advance. None of this crap of the teacher not posting the hw and expecting your kid to know what it is. Also teachers are from all around the county so I think the work is pretty much the same; but the grading might be slightly different than your base school.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: skewl ()
Date: January 29, 2015 03:31PM

When I went to school, you had to pay attention in class and had to _attend in order to get the homework assignment. I don't understand the culture today of I'll get it on my own time online or it's ok to miss 10 classes per quarter, I'll get all of my assignments online. If that's the attitude, then take up home schooling, else, get your butt to class AND pay attention.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: Off to College ()
Date: January 30, 2015 10:16PM

Students can be successful in college without AP or Honors classes in high school. Not every college, but there are plenty of colleges available- just probably not the top 50 of USNews ranked National Universities.

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Re: Do you still need to admit you’re a failure to drop an FCPS honors class?
Posted by: Off to College 2 ()
Date: January 31, 2015 09:59AM

^ 100+ and beyond, especially, will be doable. Plenty of good schools. George Mason is ranked 138 - that's the exception - not GMU due to the shear numbers applying from Northern Virginia.

For best results look out of state. And maintain a decent 2.7 (even 2.5 in some cases) nonweighted gpa. Standard diploma ok. Honors & AP not essential.

Pay attention to which major to apply to - need to be qualified for that major. Read the U's catalogue online.

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