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VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 12, 2014 06:38PM

I have a 1999 Ford Windstart I just bought used and took it to get the VA Emissions Inspection done. As it turns out it failed for two reasons;

1). They were not able to communicate with the Windstar's PCM.

2). The check engine light is on, and that means Diagnostic and repairs are needed. This check engine light just came on a few days ago.

The place I took it to wants to charge me $218 for the following:

-$109 Check Engine Light Diagnostic
-$109 Diagnose loss of communication with PCM.

This is the first time I've ever had a vehicle fail the VA Emissions Inspection. Is the $218 a fair price? Seems kind of high to me and I don't have alot of money (I just got divorced).

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Froman ()
Date: November 12, 2014 06:40PM

Go to auto zone, they'll read it for free.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 12, 2014 06:46PM

Froman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Go to auto zone, they'll read it for free.

Really? I didn't know that. I took it to Goodyear today in Gainesville, and they couldn't even read it to so kind of communication problem to the PCM.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: 9XN4M ()
Date: November 12, 2014 06:50PM

So here is the deal, you have a 1999 model year vehicle, it is OBDII compliant.

The most common reason that the OBDII tools cannot communicate with the PCM may be a blown fuse for the cigarette lighter circuit, this powers the OBDII port.

You should be able to go to most local auto parts stores like Advance Auto Parts and borrow and OBDII tool to connect to the car and read the codes.

This will be free.

What you need to do is fully document all codes found in the PXXXX format AND get the Freeze Frame data and write all of this info down.

One you have the PXXXX codes, come back and post this information for review and comment. Most local shops are fools and they start to toss parts at the problem, they do not understand how to properly interpret the codes and properly diagnose the problems.

To answer your question, I think shops charging over $100 to hook up a tool for 2 minutes is WAY over priced.

I do this for $30.

But I would check your fuses and make sure the OBDII tool will power up.

Get the info and report back because you will be over $200 into the issue, then the shop will give you another $300-$400 estimate for repairs.

My guess is the code will be related to the Evaportive Emission system or possibly a O2 sensor, but you may also just have a Lean condition due to cracked and rotted vacuum hoses.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Mr. Goodwrench ()
Date: November 12, 2014 06:51PM

Possible but suspect.

Take it to Pep Boys or somewhere else where they'll read the code(s) for you for free. Or just buy an inexpensive OBDII reader yourself.

That will tell you whether they're BS'ing you about not being able to communicate with the diagnostics system. Possible but that would be relatively rare.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 12, 2014 06:53PM

Thanks for all your help, I will take your advice.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: kJCe4 ()
Date: November 12, 2014 06:54PM

You can buy and OBDII App for your smart phone and an interface for under $30 total.

These tools have a lot of power and can do basic things as well as more advanced graphing.

DO NOT PURCHASE A CHEAP ACTRON SCAN TOOL, THEY ARE JUNK AND WAY OVERPRICED!

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: autozzone ()
Date: November 12, 2014 08:33PM

How long have you had the car. If you literally just purchased it the seller may have cleared the codes just before you purchased it so the check engine lights would reset (no lights on). In order to get emissions readings the car must be driven for awhile before the computer can calculate various data required for inspection. Drive it for a day or so and get to autozone where they will get your codes for you for free - its easy and takes about 2 minutes. You can write the codes down then just google the codes to see what is up.

I dont think the estimates are a rip off for someone that has zero knowledge or interest in cars but since you are buying an older model kind of crappy vehicle I figure you probably do not have a lot of money to throw around. Learn to do simple car diagnosis and simple repairs. With a 1999 Windstar you will end up saving a thousand bucks a year on repair. Its actually kind of fun if you have a little patience and another car to use while you work on the windstar.

Never ever go to the dealer, a brake place or a transmission place.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: fix or repair daily ()
Date: November 12, 2014 08:43PM

If it hasn't had the head gaskets replaced, call the JUNK CARS TOWED FREE guys. It isn't worth putting a dime into.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Range Rover SC ()
Date: November 12, 2014 08:51PM

I just paid $300 for a half-interval oil change and a tire rotation.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Delhi Motors/tata ()
Date: November 12, 2014 08:56PM

Range Rover SC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just paid $300 for a half-interval oil change
> and a tire rotation.



Enjoy your Tata POS

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Ford Windstar rolling POS ()
Date: November 12, 2014 09:01PM

Good luck my friend, 1999 Windstar was the worst vehicle I ever owned. Dumped it during cash for clunkers, transmission started leaking. Everyone else I knew that had one had already been through 2 transmissions. A vehicle reminiscent of the American junkers of the 80s. Pawn it off as quickly as you can.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: imbiker ()
Date: November 12, 2014 09:03PM

When was the last time you put gas in? A check engine light is common for not tightening the gas cap. Tighten the gas cap through 3-4 clicks, disconnect both battery cables for a minute or so, this will reset the electronics and the check engine light should turn off. Start engine and see if light comes on. If not the gas cap, use the diagnostic codes to look up on line the root cause for your make and model car.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Smokey Yunick ()
Date: November 12, 2014 09:33PM

>-$109 Check Engine Light Diagnostic= Thats reading the DTC trouble codes to see whats causing the trouble.It could be a simple read of the trouble code or a connect with the sensor causing the trouble and reading its values.

>-$109 Diagnose loss of communication with PCM.= Thats a tricky question as a short in the wiring, A bad PCM all can cause trouble, but thats not going to tell you exactly what the trouble is. As Theres no communication with the PCM.
If they tell you theres a short in the system.. Wheres its at?? Good Question.

The engine light on can be a expensive problem or something simple, for example you did not turn the gas cap enough and it set a code.. , Loss of Comm with the PCM could be more of a problem.. Theres a million things I could tell you but if you're not a person who can fix cars.. Im sorry . Your looking at 218 dollars roll the dice have it done and see how much more its going to be. 218 is not much for a car repair these days. I just had to remove the entire dash on my S10 2003 truck plus the HVAC box to replace the heater core. 4 days of work on and off for a 64 dollar part. the dealer would have wanted 900 dollars, Others at least 700. Car repairs are expensive.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Feeling faint... ()
Date: November 12, 2014 09:39PM

I just witnessed an actual question... and well thought out and reasonable answers on FFXU. Wha?!?

No gay porn. No political comments. Just civilized interaction.

I have to catch my breath.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Welcome back... ()
Date: November 12, 2014 10:00PM

Feeling faint... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just witnessed an actual question... and well
> thought out and reasonable answers on FFXU.
> Wha?!?
>
> No gay porn. No political comments. Just civilized
> interaction.
>
> I have to catch my breath.


Fuck off you communist liberal Republican faggot nigger.


Feel more at home now?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: TxJTN ()
Date: November 12, 2014 10:29PM

imbiker Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> disconnect both battery cables for a minute or so,
> this will reset the electronics and the check
> engine light should turn off.

With OBDII it does not work this way, disconnecting the battery does not clear OBDII trouble codes. It takes days for battery to be disconnected for the trouble codes to clear. Even if you disconnect both battery cables and connect them together for 30-60 seconds, it still takes DAYS for the internal capacitors to drain and the DRAM to finally clear.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: November 12, 2014 10:37PM

Slight change of topic: Why would someone buy a car in Virginia that hadn't passed emissions inspection? You know it is going to have to pass emissions in order to be registered. So why wouldn't that be one of the first questions you ask?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: BS laws ()
Date: November 13, 2014 01:15AM

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Slight change of topic: Why would someone buy a
> car in Virginia that hadn't passed emissions
> inspection? You know it is going to have to pass
> emissions in order to be registered. So why
> wouldn't that be one of the first questions you
> ask?


Only certain counties have to submit to the ridiculous emissions standards. I'm sorry, but if your check engine light goes on, it isn't a road hazard. Most people in America drive with that on. A loose gas cap shouldn't prevent people from driving their vehicle. A misfire ten drive cycles ago shouldn't prevent you from passing an emissions inspection, but it does.

Buy a OBD II scanner and clear a code or two before you take it to the scam emissions place. Just make sure you have only one "incomplete" before you take it in.

However, if your vehicle is spouting smoke all over the place, fix it.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 13, 2014 05:03AM

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Slight change of topic: Why would someone buy a
> car in Virginia that hadn't passed emissions
> inspection? You know it is going to have to pass
> emissions in order to be registered. So why
> wouldn't that be one of the first questions you
> ask?

It actually had both the safety and the emissions inspection done successfully just prior to me buying it. As luck would have it, after I bought it and registered it at the DMV at the end of October, part of that is having to go get the emissions checked again (When you register a new vehicle, they assign you new plates).

I kept the safety inspection sticker on it.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. Money is really tight for me right now, I just got my butt handed to me in a divorce settlement. :(

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 13, 2014 05:07AM

TxJTN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> imbiker Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > disconnect both battery cables for a minute or
> so,
> > this will reset the electronics and the check
> > engine light should turn off.
>
> With OBDII it does not work this way,
> disconnecting the battery does not clear OBDII
> trouble codes. It takes days for battery to be
> disconnected for the trouble codes to clear. Even
> if you disconnect both battery cables and connect
> them together for 30-60 seconds, it still takes
> DAYS for the internal capacitors to drain and the
> DRAM to finally clear.

Is there anyway to reset the OBDII?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: that sucks broham ()
Date: November 13, 2014 06:23AM

Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bill.N. Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Slight change of topic: Why would someone buy
> a
> > car in Virginia that hadn't passed emissions
> > inspection? You know it is going to have to
> pass
> > emissions in order to be registered. So why
> > wouldn't that be one of the first questions you
> > ask?
>
> It actually had both the safety and the emissions
> inspection done successfully just prior to me
> buying it. As luck would have it, after I bought
> it and registered it at the DMV at the end of
> October, part of that is having to go get the
> emissions checked again (When you register a new
> vehicle, they assign you new plates).
>
> I kept the safety inspection sticker on it.
>
> Anyway, thanks for the advice. Money is really
> tight for me right now, I just got my butt handed
> to me in a divorce settlement. :(


What happened? Infidelity? Mutually agreed separation? Kids involved?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 13, 2014 07:12AM

that sucks broham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What happened? Infidelity? Mutually agreed
> separation? Kids involved?

All the above.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: VCJYh ()
Date: November 13, 2014 08:00AM

Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there anyway to reset the OBDII?

Yes, there are 2 ways.

The fastest and most direct way to clear the SES/CEL/MIL light and codes is with an OBDII scan tool. You can use the tool to clear the codes, however, it also resets what are called the Emission Readiness Monitors. The Emission Readiness Monitors need time to clear before you can get the car back to have the Emission Inspection performed. There are typically about 6-8 Emission Readiness Monitors that will need to clear and it will usually take 2 days and at least 10-15 miles of driving on the highway, this assumes the vehicle is in good shape and does not have other specific issues that would delay the Emission Readiness Monitors to clear.

The next way for the SES/CEL/MIL to clear is let the ECU/vehicle clear the problem. Contrary to what most may think or state, the ECU/vehicle can automatically clear the SES/CEL/MIL and related codes if the problem that triggered the light/codes is repaired and/or has not reappeared within a period of time. The issue is depending on the what the ECU is programmed it may take between 20-40 engine start cycles for the light/codes to clear.

But your first order of business if figure out why the Emission Inspection Station was unable to connect to the ECU in the vehicle. As I mentioned before, the most common problem is no power at the OBDII connector and it is often due to a blown fuse, usually the same fuse for the cigarette lighter in many vehicles.

Quickest and easiest thing for you to do is verify the cigarette lighter plug works but either testing the lighter or trying a cell phone charger or GPS unit.

If the fuse is blown, replace ti and they go to AutoZone or and borrow an OBDII scan tool and plug it into the OBDII port under the dash and make sure the tool powers up. If the tool does not power up, there is a power problem to the OBDII port, if the tool powers up but cannot communicate with the ECU you have a slightly bigger and more complicated problem.

Again, what you need to get is the OBDII Trouble Codes in the PXXXX format and associated Freeze Frame data and post these back here for review and comment. You will need to take paper and something to write this info down and/or take pictures with your phone so you have this info documented.

There are A LOT of folks out there that really do not know what they are doing and even in Gainsville/Bristow you have to watch out who you are dealing with.

There are more mis-diagnosed issues with OBDII and it drives me crazy how foolish even seasoned professionals are either due to just sloppiness, greed or a basic failure to understand what they do for a living on a daily basis.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 13, 2014 09:13AM

VCJYh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Is there anyway to reset the OBDII?
>
> Yes, there are 2 ways.
>
> The fastest and most direct way to clear the
> SES/CEL/MIL light and codes is with an OBDII scan
> tool. You can use the tool to clear the codes,
> however, it also resets what are called the
> Emission Readiness Monitors. The Emission
> Readiness Monitors need time to clear before you
> can get the car back to have the Emission
> Inspection performed. There are typically about
> 6-8 Emission Readiness Monitors that will need to
> clear and it will usually take 2 days and at least
> 10-15 miles of driving on the highway, this
> assumes the vehicle is in good shape and does not
> have other specific issues that would delay the
> Emission Readiness Monitors to clear.
>
> The next way for the SES/CEL/MIL to clear is let
> the ECU/vehicle clear the problem. Contrary to
> what most may think or state, the ECU/vehicle can
> automatically clear the SES/CEL/MIL and related
> codes if the problem that triggered the
> light/codes is repaired and/or has not reappeared
> within a period of time. The issue is depending on
> the what the ECU is programmed it may take between
> 20-40 engine start cycles for the light/codes to
> clear.
>
> But your first order of business if figure out why
> the Emission Inspection Station was unable to
> connect to the ECU in the vehicle. As I mentioned
> before, the most common problem is no power at the
> OBDII connector and it is often due to a blown
> fuse, usually the same fuse for the cigarette
> lighter in many vehicles.
>
> Quickest and easiest thing for you to do is verify
> the cigarette lighter plug works but either
> testing the lighter or trying a cell phone charger
> or GPS unit.
>
> If the fuse is blown, replace ti and they go to
> AutoZone or and borrow an OBDII scan tool and plug
> it into the OBDII port under the dash and make
> sure the tool powers up. If the tool does not
> power up, there is a power problem to the OBDII
> port, if the tool powers up but cannot communicate
> with the ECU you have a slightly bigger and more
> complicated problem.
>
> Again, what you need to get is the OBDII Trouble
> Codes in the PXXXX format and associated Freeze
> Frame data and post these back here for review and
> comment. You will need to take paper and something
> to write this info down and/or take pictures with
> your phone so you have this info documented.
>
> There are A LOT of folks out there that really do
> not know what they are doing and even in
> Gainsville/Bristow you have to watch out who you
> are dealing with.
>
> There are more mis-diagnosed issues with OBDII and
> it drives me crazy how foolish even seasoned
> professionals are either due to just sloppiness,
> greed or a basic failure to understand what they
> do for a living on a daily basis.

Thanks! What if the fuse is okay and the cigarette lighter are both working. Where can I go to “fix” the connection for the ECU in the vehicle without it costing an arm and a leg?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: GnKdF ()
Date: November 13, 2014 09:18AM

Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
--
>
> Thanks! What if the fuse is okay and the cigarette
> lighter are both working. Where can I go to
> “fix” the connection for the ECU in the
> vehicle without it costing an arm and a leg?

Worry about the next steps once you figure out if the OBDII does not power up.

If the OBDII does not power up, this is probably the easiest thing to sort out.

Given we are dealing with a 15 year old used vehicle, I would guess there is a fuse blown and there may be a problem with the lighter and/or lighter socket or someone just plugged a damaged device into the lighter socket and blew the fuse at one point.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 13, 2014 09:53AM

GnKdF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
> --
> >
> > Thanks! What if the fuse is okay and the
> cigarette
> > lighter are both working. Where can I go to
> > “fix” the connection for the ECU in the
> > vehicle without it costing an arm and a leg?
>
> Worry about the next steps once you figure out if
> the OBDII does not power up.
>
> If the OBDII does not power up, this is probably
> the easiest thing to sort out.
>
> Given we are dealing with a 15 year old used
> vehicle, I would guess there is a fuse blown and
> there may be a problem with the lighter and/or
> lighter socket or someone just plugged a damaged
> device into the lighter socket and blew the fuse
> at one point.

Thanks, I'll have it checked out. I do know that it was working at the end of October, as I used it then, but I'll check it out today.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Smokey Yunick ()
Date: November 13, 2014 12:17PM

For Every ones Info: OBDII scanners that read and clear codes are about 50 dollars. I got a Actron CP9125 OBDII Pocket Scan from Sears at that price, There very popular. You can go on the net and look up the DTC - Diagnostic Trouble Code amd see what it is, but the PCM has got to have commucation to the scanner to do it. Are any wires to the PCM connection pulled loose ? This 50 dollar code reader does not connect with any sensors, That takes a more expensive model and they read the values coming from the sensor and you have to see if they are within the proper limits. Auto Repair and Dealers and some people have the factory type Scan tools, which can do all the above plus reset key codes, reprogram the PCM and all kinds of other things. These are in the thousands of Dollars and the GM Tech II tool is being conterfited in China and Korea so beware if anyone sees one for a too cheap of a price. Real GM Tech II tools are made in the USA.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>The fastest and most direct way to clear the SES/CEL/MIL light and codes is with an OBDII scan tool. You can use the tool to clear the codes, however, it also resets what are called the Emission Readiness Monitors. The Emission Readiness Monitors need time to clear before you can get the car back to have the Emission Inspection performed. There are typically about 6-8 Emission Readiness Monitors that will need to clear and it will usually take 2 days and at least 10-15 miles of driving on the highway, this assumes the vehicle is in good shape and does not have other specific issues that would delay the Emission Readiness Monitors to clear.

Very important to read what VCJyh says here about the time it takes to clear the emmissions monitors. DTC code will clear themselves if there no trouble such as a bad part being replaced but it takes about 50 starts of the car to do it.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 13, 2014 01:26PM

I checked it during lunch and found that indeed the lighter in the van is not working and it appears the fuse is blown. I'll replace the fuse after work and head over to Autozone after that.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: x9Mvt ()
Date: November 13, 2014 03:43PM

Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I checked it during lunch and found that indeed
> the lighter in the van is not working and it
> appears the fuse is blown. I'll replace the fuse
> after work and head over to Autozone after that.

Step one checked and will be addressed.

This should get the OBDII tool to power up and work.

Then get any and all Trouble Codes as well as Freeze Frame data.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 13, 2014 09:07PM

So I went to Autozone and you were right they checked it for free. It was the bad fuse that was causing the communication error.

Autozone ran the check and they found (3) errors:

-P0171
-P0174
-P0420

This was all they got.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Smokey Yunick ()
Date: November 13, 2014 09:42PM

Those codes are consistant with a bad oxygen sensor. they are located on the exhaust pipe. Newer cars have 2 , older cars have 1. they are about 60 dollars each and look like a spark plug that screws into the exhaust pipe with a communication wire on them . A very common item that goes bad. One of the first things to look for and a easy item to have replaced . I hope thats it.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: not so quick! ()
Date: November 13, 2014 09:44PM

"Those codes are EXTREMELY common to set on 1999-2000 model year Windstars equipped with 3.8L V6 engines. You wasted money replacing your O2 sensors because it means you have a lean condition detected by both cylinder banks. To fix this problem you will have to replace the following parts:

Lower half upper intake spacer (Ford part number CM-5053)

Fuel pressure regulator vacuum hose (Ford part number XF2Z-9E498-DD)

Bank #2 (or front side) valve cover (Ford part number 4U7Z-6582-A)

Once replaced, you will need to take it to your nearest Ford dealer to have your PCM recalibrated to the latest calibration level. The reason for replacing the valve cover is due to an updated PCV passage. The updated lower intake spacer has grooves cut into the passages to prevent engine oil from collecting and swelling up the rubber o-ring gaskets causing vacuum leaks. The reason for replacing the fuel pressure regulator hose is due to it's tendency to swell up and not seal properly, again resulting in vacuum leaks causing the engine to run rough and set those codes. Hope this helps. "

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: not so quick! ()
Date: November 13, 2014 09:48PM

If you really need to do all that, as stated above, it will be way more than $218.


Do you see any oil leaking around the valve cover?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 13, 2014 10:01PM

Jesus, here we go with the amateurs saying there is a bad O2 sensor!!!

This is what is wrong with the industry.

First off O2 sensors RARELY trigger any specific codes other than for failed heater circuits.

If the O2 sensor(s) were bad, then there will be no Lean codes because the sensor could not properly measure a Lean condition.

Ignore Smokey Yunik, he is wrong and has no idea what is is doing or talking about. He probably works in a repair shop and has no idea why he shows up to work each day.

P0171 = Lean Bank #1
P0174 = Lean Bank #2

There is likely a common vacuum leak that is between the Mass Airflow sensor and the intake, I do not know these cars/engines in intimate detail, however, most likely cracked/rotted rubber hoses.

P0420 is an Industry wide problem, Catalytic Converter Below Efficiency Bank #1.

Not sure if this vehicle has a single or dual converters?

DO NOT REPLACE OR GET TALKED INTO REPLACING YOUR CATALYTIC CONVERTER AT THIS POINT. Worry about the Lean codes first.

Also P0420 can be managed and you can get through an Emission Inspection if you are careful driving and not to trigger the P0420 code before Inspection.

Not So Quick have good advice, he seems to know the product, BUT, I do not think this is the way to go on a car of this age. His solution is a LONG TERM solution, but you do not need an expensive and difficult correction here. Again, no disrespect to Not So Quick, he likely has or current works in a Ford dealer, but his solution would be something I would consider on a 5 year old car, not a 15 year old car.

I think you could probably skip the valve cover and the PCM recalibration. The intake spacer may or may not be the problem.

Simple way to find the leaks is with a smoke test. Search YouTube for Scotty Smoke Test to get a Gainsville idea of how to find vacuum leaks and bad hoses.

I was dead on with the blown cigarette lighter fuse, if you listen to me, I will probably get you back to no SES/CEL/MIL light and be able to pass inspection for a fairly simple and cheap repair.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: ASE ()
Date: November 13, 2014 10:10PM

Impressive with all of the OBD Google mechanics on here...If you have a 1999 Windstar, sell that pos soon before the transmission or abs module fail. Trust me on that... unless you would rather just throw away money later on.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: why I love my 5 speed manual ()
Date: November 13, 2014 10:13PM

^ Spot on.


I knew someone who had a Windstar, same thing as others reported, transmission went out.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 13, 2014 10:52PM

ASE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Impressive with all of the OBD Google mechanics on
> here...

ASE, I hope this was not directed to me, because I can tell you I am no OBD Google mechanic.

Have more experience, knowledge and training than the collective group of staff at many local shops.

Should the OP have purchased this vehicle, probably not, but lacking specific model experience, working on a budget and needing a vehicle quick, many people make poor or uniformed choices.

At this point the OP just needs to get the car through an Emission Inspection as cheaply and quickly as possible. Then they will deal with what ever short comings the vehicle may have if and when issues pop up.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 14, 2014 05:26AM

xv4dM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jesus, here we go with the amateurs saying there
> is a bad O2 sensor!!!
>
> This is what is wrong with the industry.
>
> First off O2 sensors RARELY trigger any specific
> codes other than for failed heater circuits.
>
> If the O2 sensor(s) were bad, then there will be
> no Lean codes because the sensor could not
> properly measure a Lean condition.
>
> Ignore Smokey Yunik, he is wrong and has no idea
> what is is doing or talking about. He probably
> works in a repair shop and has no idea why he
> shows up to work each day.
>
> P0171 = Lean Bank #1
> P0174 = Lean Bank #2
>
> There is likely a common vacuum leak that is
> between the Mass Airflow sensor and the intake, I
> do not know these cars/engines in intimate detail,
> however, most likely cracked/rotted rubber hoses.
>
>
> P0420 is an Industry wide problem, Catalytic
> Converter Below Efficiency Bank #1.
>
> Not sure if this vehicle has a single or dual
> converters?
>
> DO NOT REPLACE OR GET TALKED INTO REPLACING YOUR
> CATALYTIC CONVERTER AT THIS POINT. Worry about the
> Lean codes first.
>
> Also P0420 can be managed and you can get through
> an Emission Inspection if you are careful driving
> and not to trigger the P0420 code before
> Inspection.
>
> Not So Quick have good advice, he seems to know
> the product, BUT, I do not think this is the way
> to go on a car of this age. His solution is a LONG
> TERM solution, but you do not need an expensive
> and difficult correction here. Again, no
> disrespect to Not So Quick, he likely has or
> current works in a Ford dealer, but his solution
> would be something I would consider on a 5 year
> old car, not a 15 year old car.
>
> I think you could probably skip the valve cover
> and the PCM recalibration. The intake spacer may
> or may not be the problem.
>
> Simple way to find the leaks is with a smoke test.
> Search YouTube for Scotty Smoke Test to get a
> Gainsville idea of how to find vacuum leaks and
> bad hoses.
>
> I was dead on with the blown cigarette lighter
> fuse, if you listen to me, I will probably get you
> back to no SES/CEL/MIL light and be able to pass
> inspection for a fairly simple and cheap repair.

Thanks for the advice, it's been spot on so far. I'm not good with cars at all, is there a place you could recommend that won't rip me off?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 14, 2014 06:56AM

I may be scarce for the weekend here on FFU, so I will try and check back in maybe late Sun.

Good luck moving forward.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: you disconnect ()
Date: November 14, 2014 07:59AM

Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TxJTN Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > imbiker Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > disconnect both battery cables for a minute
> or
> > so,
> > > this will reset the electronics and the check
> > > engine light should turn off.
> >
> > With OBDII it does not work this way,
> > disconnecting the battery does not clear OBDII
> > trouble codes. It takes days for battery to be
> > disconnected for the trouble codes to clear.
> Even
> > if you disconnect both battery cables and
> connect
> > them together for 30-60 seconds, it still takes
> > DAYS for the internal capacitors to drain and
> the
> > DRAM to finally clear.
>
> Is there anyway to reset the OBDII?


Of course you can reset the codes the car computer(s) - it takes about 15 seconds. Just purchase a OBDII reader, read the 4 paragraph 'manual' and the procedure is maybe 4 steps. About as hard as closing down Windows and Restarting it. The trick with emissions is that the car will then need to gather data before they can get the info they need to inspect it. For example I was having a problem with a code for O2 sensors. I could clear the code and it would take days before the code reappeared. However if I took the car into inspection immediately after clearing the code (i did it while waiting in line for inspection) there was no data stored yet and they could not inspect it.

Ultimately I had the ERG valve cleaned and the problem was solved. In any event you should read the codes to understand what the problem is. If you cannot communicate with the OBD you will be forced to have that fixed no matter what to get the car inspected.

You picked on of the poorer used cars on the market - dump it soon and do some research on consumer reports and get a reliable shitbox vs that POS. I have a 1999 E320 and it rarely has problems. Most riceburners will be the same but the Windstar is terrible.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: 100% reliable ()
Date: November 14, 2014 08:10AM

You should bought a Land Rover.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 14, 2014 01:27PM

100% reliable Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You should bought a Land Rover.

Believe me, I would, if I had the money.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: troll advice ()
Date: November 14, 2014 01:35PM

Buy a very old used 7 series or S class, super reliable and cost next to nothing to repair.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: sciony ()
Date: November 14, 2014 06:22PM

2005 Scion xB is bullet proof from a mechanical standpoint - 6 grand. If you can spare 7k the 2006's are even better. Ugly car but if you need a vanish type vehicle that would be a good, reliable car that would last you another 5 years easy with care

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: hideous taste ()
Date: November 14, 2014 06:30PM

sciony Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2005 Scion xB is bullet proof from a mechanical
> standpoint - 6 grand. If you can spare 7k the
> 2006's are even better. Ugly car but if you need
> a vanish type vehicle that would be a good,
> reliable car that would last you another 5 years
> easy with care


Reliable car, yes. But you can get the rav4 which is the same engine and all, just much better looking.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: ScottyK ()
Date: November 14, 2014 08:50PM

Just pour a whole gallon of lacquer thinner in the gas tank...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5icTmYItwiE

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Smokey Yunick ()
Date: November 14, 2014 09:08PM

I just use a can of "Guarenteed To Pass" about 8 dollars at Advance Auto, Pour it in the tank, Drive 100 miles . Go to the inspection station and Yes Pass, Works every time! Cleans those pesky O2 sensors and Cat converters right up..Not Kidding!

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: kujtK ()
Date: November 15, 2014 05:21AM

you disconnect Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TxJTN Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > imbiker Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > disconnect both battery cables for a minute
> > or
> > > so,
> > > > this will reset the electronics and the
> check
> > > > engine light should turn off.
> > >
> > > With OBDII it does not work this way,
> > > disconnecting the battery does not clear
> OBDII
> > > trouble codes. It takes days for battery to
> be
> > > disconnected for the trouble codes to clear.
> > Even
> > > if you disconnect both battery cables and
> > connect
> > > them together for 30-60 seconds, it still
> takes
> > > DAYS for the internal capacitors to drain and
> > the
> > > DRAM to finally clear.
> >
> > Is there anyway to reset the OBDII?
>
>
> Of course you can reset the codes the car
> computer(s) - it takes about 15 seconds. Just
> purchase a OBDII reader, read the 4 paragraph
> 'manual' and the procedure is maybe 4 steps.
> About as hard as closing down Windows and
> Restarting it. The trick with emissions is that
> the car will then need to gather data before they
> can get the info they need to inspect it. For
> example I was having a problem with a code for O2
> sensors. I could clear the code and it would take
> days before the code reappeared. However if I
> took the car into inspection immediately after
> clearing the code (i did it while waiting in line
> for inspection) there was no data stored yet and
> they could not inspect it.

How many days does it take after clearing the codes, before the car can be inspected?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: corn to power our cars ()
Date: November 15, 2014 09:02AM

kujtK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> How many days does it take after clearing the
> codes, before the car can be inspected?

It depends more on driving time and OBD computer function. In my case it was taking about 3-5 hours driving time. My OBD was fine I was just clearing it. I went back one time after only an hour on the road and it still had no data. If your OBD is broken that is another issue and it can be difficult to trace and fix the problem according to the mechanic that was inspecting my vehicle. I was trying to beat the system by clearing then driving just enough to have the computer have some data but not enough to throw the 02 sensor code. Id done it before but this time I paid to have a mechanic evaluate the code (02 codes can be dozens of things) rather than throw expensive parts at the problem. In the end it was the EGR valve (it clogs up because we use corn to power our cars) pain in the ass to clean in my merc so all in all I spent $300 bucks to fix the problem.

First and foremost you need to get the code and understand what it could be. As others have said it could be you need a new gas cap (they can test yours at the inspection station).

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: j7yGF ()
Date: November 16, 2014 03:36AM

I read online that it takes about 100 miles of driving time for the onboard ECM to update itself.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 17, 2014 12:04AM

I cannot believe all of this craziness and misinformation.

First, the "Guarantee To Pass" will not resolve Lean Conditions, it MAY???? help some other issue that may be due to carboned up O2 sensors to catalytic converters however, it is better to put forth the effort to resolve the long term issues.

As for how long will it take for the Emission Readiness Monitors to clear, on a "good" car without issue, you "should" be able to get the Emission Readiness Monitors to clear in 2 colds start cycles with about 10-15 miles of driving.

If you cannot get all the Emission Readiness Monitors to clean in this time frame there are likely issues that are borderline, usually O2 Sensors if in fact the issue is related to lazy O2 sensors.

There is no need for 3-5 hours of driving or hundreds of miles.

Most of the Emission Readiness Monitors will clear on the first start if you get the car on the highway during the first start for 10-15 miles.

The Evap Monitor is usually the hardest clear and usually takes a 2nd drive of 10-15 mile of steady highway driving.

Here are some useful links for anyone that wants to really learn something:

http://repairpal.com/drive-cycle-emissions-readiness-monitors

http://www.smogtips.com/Mercedes_Drive_Cycle_Readiness_Monitors.pdf

http://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC.BMW/BMW%20FTP72%20Drive%20Cycle%20Procedure.pdf

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 17, 2014 05:54PM

So I had the codes cleared by Auto Zone last Friday, and drove the van over the past few days okay with no problems and no check engine light. I took it to place to have it inspected and it failed due to this one code:

OBD Trouble Code:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
P0174 System too Lean (Bank 2)

***Basically this means that an oxygen sensor in bank 2 detected a lean condition (too much oxygen in the exhaust). On V6/V8/V10 engines, Bank 2 is generally the side of the engine that doesn't have cylinder #1.

The inspector told me..."The error code was present in the residentual memory of the vehicle's ECM and was showing that it had not cleared." Now, my check engine light is back on (it was fine until after they looked at it at the inspection station).

So now, I'm almost back to square one.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 17, 2014 06:24PM

The inspector either did not explain properly what is going on and/or has no idea what he is doing or talking about.

Here is the story.

There are 2 key things that are used to determine if a vehicle can and will be able to Pass the VA State Emission Inspection.

Step #1. Emission Readiness Monitors, model year vehicles from 1996-2000 can have up to 2 Emission Readiness Monitors not Cleared/Passed and still be eligible for Inspection.

See quote from the VA DEQ website - "If more than two of the monitored systems are found to be "not ready" for 1996 to 2000 model year vehicles, or more than one monitored system is found to be "not ready" for 2001 and later model year vehicles, the vehicle is rejected from testing at no charge and the vehicle must be operated until the monitors have had a chance to run and the system is ready to test."

Step #2, There cannot be any DTC's present at time of inspection. Usually this is based to the SES/CEL/MIL indicator, however, there is something called a "Pending" DTC or code that will not turn the SES/CEL/MIL light on. A "Pending" code means an issue has been detected, however, the issue needs to be detected again within a certain number of engine start cycles, the "Pending" code will automatically clear.

What you need to is "Manage" this issue in order to get through the Inspection to buy you time to get the real problem resolved.

First DO NOT ALLOW anyone to attempt to sell/install and Oxygen sensor, this WILL NOT correct the problem and is NOT the problem. The description provided is a "generic" and description at best, it is written clearly enough however, most monkeys see the work Oxygen sensor and want to immediately replace it.

You need to clear the codes again, drive the car until all but 2 of the Emission Readiness Monitors have cleared and then take the car back for inspected before any Pending or actual DTC's (Trouble Codes) appear. Then you will be able to get the car inspected.

It would be easier for you to have your own OBDII scan tool, which will be helpful in resolving the issues long term. DO NOT purchase a Actron tool from the parts store, they are too expensive and are lack luster at best. For under $30 you can purchase an OBDII smart phone App and interface for your smart phone. These are very powerful but the menus are sometimes a bit of a challenge. Just need to know if you are an iProduct or Android user.

I would bet if you had the codes cleared, started and drove the car for 2 days a total of only 10-15 miles to include some time on Rt66 up an exit and back you will probably clear most of the Readiness Monitors and not trigger a Pending coder or the SES/CEL/MIL.

Again, forget about the O2 sensors, these are not your current problem. Bad O2 sensors cannot accurately measure Rich or Lean conditions. You are getting a Lean condition, the O2 sensor is working good enough. The problem is a vacuum leak that needs to be resolved, likely pretty cheap and easy to find and resolve. Provably a split or cracked rubber hose, but may be something with a gasket or seal somewhere in the intake air path or PCV system.

http://www.deq.state.va.us/Programs/AirCheckVirginia/ForMotoristsVehicleOwners/OnBoardDiagnosticSystemFAQ.aspx

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 17, 2014 06:29PM

Sorry, pulled to trigger too soon, was interrupted while mid stream on this.

xv4dM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

A "Pending" code means
> an issue has been detected, however, the issue
> needs to be detected again within a certain number
> of engine start cycles, the "Pending" code will
> automatically clear.
>


This statement should read like this:

A "Pending" code means an issue has been detected, however, the issue
needs to be detected again within a certain number of engine start cycles for the SES/CEL/MIL light to come on, IF the same DTC is not detected within a certain number of engine start cycles, the "Pending" code will automatically clear.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Smoky Yunick ()
Date: November 17, 2014 06:59PM

I've had great results with the Actron unit Its fairly cheap $50 or less and very easy to work. It only reads the trouble codes and tells you how many monitors are set or conditions. It also resets the service engine light, which will come back on if there's still problems. I am a shade tree mechanic 45 years working on my own vechicles and will admit I don't have anywhere the experience or knowledge as xv4dM. But The Actron scanner has helped me out several times. Consider as xv4dM says and get something.This van you are having trouble with now may not be the last one to have some issue, and a scanner is good to have.

As some others have noted I once did not turn the gas cap enough, A trip to Jim McKay solved it, I did it again and the next time I had the scanner, tighten the cap turned off the service light. done deal. I also had the same S10 truck fail because the gas cap was bad, something I never would have thought of. I mean "they last for ever" dont they! At least they used to.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 17, 2014 07:16PM

The problem with the cheap Actron OBDII tools is they rarely support Live/Real Time data and offer no advanced features like Logging/Recording the OBDII data stream or graphing.

So save you money, if you have an Android phone or tablet, for $20 or less, depending on how much of a hurry you are in you can have a decent OBDII tool to work on an Android platform that will KILL any Actrom tool 10X the price.

Look at it this way, a $20 tool will pay for itself the first time you use it and it will allow anyone to "manage" issue with their vehicle for less than the price of 1/2 tank of fuel.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 17, 2014 07:47PM

xv4dM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You need to clear the codes again, drive the car
> until all but 2 of the Emission Readiness Monitors
> have cleared and then take the car back for
> inspected before any Pending or actual DTC's
> (Trouble Codes) appear. Then you will be able to
> get the car inspected.

I did this last time and drove it for just over 100 miles. Wasn't that long enough?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 17, 2014 07:50PM

Also the "Guarantee To Pass" will not resolve the issue right? How about Cataclean? A friend recommended the Cataclean, but I wanted to check first. Reviews on it are good, but I wasn't sure it would address this particular issue.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 17, 2014 07:52PM

Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> xv4dM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You need to clear the codes again, drive the
> car
> > until all but 2 of the Emission Readiness
> Monitors
> > have cleared and then take the car back for
> > inspected before any Pending or actual DTC's
> > (Trouble Codes) appear. Then you will be able
> to
> > get the car inspected.
>
> I did this last time and drove it for just over
> 100 miles. Wasn't that long enough?

Probably too long,

You want enough Emission Readiness Monitors to clean but no Pending or Active DTC (codes) to appear.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 17, 2014 07:55PM

Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also the "Guarantee To Pass" will not resolve the
> issue right? How about Cataclean? A friend
> recommended the Cataclean, but I wanted to check
> first. Reviews on it are good, but I wasn't sure
> it would address this particular issue.

None of this will address your issue. You have a vacuum/crankcase air leak.

"Guarantee To Pass" and Cataclean can help clean up carboned up O2 sensors and catalytic converters, this IS NOT your problem.

Spend your $20 on an OBDII tool so you can know EXACTLY when to pull into the Inspection Station.

Then you can use the tool to know when you are getting the vacuum/crankcase air leaks resolved.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: LGJ9T ()
Date: November 17, 2014 07:58PM

xv4dM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I cannot believe all of this craziness and
> misinformation.
>
> First, the "Guarantee To Pass" will not resolve
> Lean Conditions, it MAY???? help some other issue
> that may be due to carboned up O2 sensors to
> catalytic converters however, it is better to put
> forth the effort to resolve the long term issues.
>
> As for how long will it take for the Emission
> Readiness Monitors to clear, on a "good" car
> without issue, you "should" be able to get the
> Emission Readiness Monitors to clear in 2 colds
> start cycles with about 10-15 miles of driving.
>
> If you cannot get all the Emission Readiness
> Monitors to clean in this time frame there are
> likely issues that are borderline, usually O2
> Sensors if in fact the issue is related to lazy O2
> sensors.
>
> There is no need for 3-5 hours of driving or
> hundreds of miles.
>
> Most of the Emission Readiness Monitors will clear
> on the first start if you get the car on the
> highway during the first start for 10-15 miles.
>
> The Evap Monitor is usually the hardest clear and
> usually takes a 2nd drive of 10-15 mile of steady
> highway driving.
>
> Here are some useful links for anyone that wants
> to really learn something:
>
> http://repairpal.com/drive-cycle-emissions-readine
> ss-monitors
>
> http://www.smogtips.com/Mercedes_Drive_Cycle_Readi
> ness_Monitors.pdf
>
> http://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC.
> BMW/BMW%20FTP72%20Drive%20Cycle%20Procedure.pdf

I appreciate your theoretical rant but as I said in MY case it took a few hours of driving and several cold starts as you say. I went in twice after driving less time with multiple colds and with getting on the highway within one mile of the cold start and it did not yet have data. Needless to say after going back twice once after 20 min driving and the next after an hour or so I did not feel like going back every 15 min of driving so I drove it a couple of hours over a couple of days. It was the EGR not a 'lazy O2'

So you are actually spreading some form of misinformation. Im not going to bother to check your links as you seem like a google troll that poses as an expert.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Smoky Yunick ()
Date: November 17, 2014 08:01PM

Real time data?? Android?? Logging Recording the data stream?? Smart phone app?? For 20 dollars?? My head is spinning.. Cheap $50 dollar Actron Tool works fine and simple for us simple mind folk... Now let me get some wrenches..Ive got some bolts to get at..I just need to read those trouble codes,and monitors. And be able to turn off the service engine light. If I need any more..Ill get a real GM Tech 2 scan tool made in the USA with Candi and the works..after I hit the lottery $5000 +.

Oh well you need some kind of scanner as xv4dM says.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: read up my friend ()
Date: November 17, 2014 08:15PM

xv4dM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The inspector either did not explain properly what
> is going on and/or has no idea what he is doing or
> talking about.
>
> Here is the story.
>
> There are 2 key things that are used to determine
> if a vehicle can and will be able to Pass the VA
> State Emission Inspection.
>
> Step #1. Emission Readiness Monitors, model year
> vehicles from 1996-2000 can have up to 2 Emission
> Readiness Monitors not Cleared/Passed and still be
> eligible for Inspection.
>
> See quote from the VA DEQ website - "If more than
> two of the monitored systems are found to be "not
> ready" for 1996 to 2000 model year vehicles, or
> more than one monitored system is found to be "not
> ready" for 2001 and later model year vehicles, the
> vehicle is rejected from testing at no charge and
> the vehicle must be operated until the monitors
> have had a chance to run and the system is ready
> to test."
>
> Step #2, There cannot be any DTC's present at time
> of inspection. Usually this is based to the
> SES/CEL/MIL indicator, however, there is something
> called a "Pending" DTC or code that will not turn
> the SES/CEL/MIL light on. A "Pending" code means
> an issue has been detected, however, the issue
> needs to be detected again within a certain number
> of engine start cycles, the "Pending" code will
> automatically clear.
>
> What you need to is "Manage" this issue in order
> to get through the Inspection to buy you time to
> get the real problem resolved.
>
> First DO NOT ALLOW anyone to attempt to
> sell/install and Oxygen sensor, this WILL NOT
> correct the problem and is NOT the problem. The
> description provided is a "generic" and
> description at best, it is written clearly enough
> however, most monkeys see the work Oxygen sensor
> and want to immediately replace it.
>
> You need to clear the codes again, drive the car
> until all but 2 of the Emission Readiness Monitors
> have cleared and then take the car back for
> inspected before any Pending or actual DTC's
> (Trouble Codes) appear. Then you will be able to
> get the car inspected.
>
> It would be easier for you to have your own OBDII
> scan tool, which will be helpful in resolving the
> issues long term. DO NOT purchase a Actron tool
> from the parts store, they are too expensive and
> are lack luster at best. For under $30 you can
> purchase an OBDII smart phone App and interface
> for your smart phone. These are very powerful but
> the menus are sometimes a bit of a challenge. Just
> need to know if you are an iProduct or Android
> user.
>
> I would bet if you had the codes cleared, started
> and drove the car for 2 days a total of only 10-15
> miles to include some time on Rt66 up an exit and
> back you will probably clear most of the Readiness
> Monitors and not trigger a Pending coder or the
> SES/CEL/MIL.
>
> Again, forget about the O2 sensors, these are not
> your current problem. Bad O2 sensors cannot
> accurately measure Rich or Lean conditions. You
> are getting a Lean condition, the O2 sensor is
> working good enough. The problem is a vacuum leak
> that needs to be resolved, likely pretty cheap and
> easy to find and resolve. Provably a split or
> cracked rubber hose, but may be something with a
> gasket or seal somewhere in the intake air path or
> PCV system.
>
> http://www.deq.state.va.us/Programs/AirCheckVirgin
> ia/ForMotoristsVehicleOwners/OnBoardDiagnosticSyst
> emFAQ.aspx


I agree completely with this guy. This was my experience. As I said before the O2 can literally be dozens of things that are NOT the sensors. I did research, found a trustworthy indie mechanic and asked him to diagnose the problem. I have enough knowledge to assert that if it was an O2 I would replace it myself. The EGR is a pain to clean so I paid him to do it. He applied the diagnosis to the repair so it was only a couple hundred bucks.

A friend showed me his wireless OBD reader this weekend and it looked cool. you plug it in and get the readings via bluetooth on your phone. It had real time data too. You would be well served to read some Ford forums on your particular make, model and year. Im sure this is a common problem and you will likely read a lot of experience from people that have dealt with this in your car. This was the case with my merc EGR cleaning issue.

Finally you are going to have to find a mechanic you trust. that means no dealers, no brake/tranny/oil change places. Maybe gas stations but they are usually too much generalists in my opinion. Yelp, car talk and the best source is Checklist (available online and in print for a fee or at your local library for free).

There are lots of crooked shops so if you have a bad feeling go elsewhere. Car repair is basically a black hole if you dont have knowledge and dont have the ability to understand and research auto issues. I find it fun to figure stuff out and Im cheep. I drive high quality late model cars whose owners paid fortunes to keep them dealer maintained. I always research the make and model prior to buying a car to avoid models like the Windstar.

Go to the Ford owner forums and read up my friend...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 17, 2014 08:15PM

I don't have a smartphone, I can't the get app for OBD tool. Any recommendations on what brand I can get and where from?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 17, 2014 08:18PM

LGJ9T Wrote:

> I appreciate your theoretical rant but as I said
> in MY case it took a few hours of driving and
> several cold starts as you say. I went in twice
> after driving less time with multiple colds and
> with getting on the highway within one mile of the
> cold start and it did not yet have data. Needless
> to say after going back twice once after 20 min
> driving and the next after an hour or so I did not
> feel like going back every 15 min of driving so I
> drove it a couple of hours over a couple of days.
> It was the EGR not a 'lazy O2'
>
> So you are actually spreading some form of
> misinformation. Im not going to bother to check
> your links as you seem like a google troll that
> poses as an expert.

Sorry, but O2 sensors do all the monitoring for Readiness Monitors.

Unless you ONLY had an EGR Readiness Monitor not clearing, then more than likely lazy O2 sensors.

If you only had a single Readiness Monitor not set you would have been able to get the car inspected.

I am not spreading misinformation and I am not a typical FFU Google troll.

I back up all of my comments with facts when they are readily available.

To total lack of understanding of OBDII, engines, and vehicles by even the "Professsionals" is just scary stupid.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Smokey Yunick ()
Date: November 17, 2014 08:38PM

Get a Actron 50 dollar or less scanner depending on sales ect from Sears, Auto Zone, Advance Auto. Others. Easy to use comes with a code/ monitor book. I appreciate xv4dMs advice. I am just a old wrench guy, replacing engines, transmissons, clutches, fuel pumps, heater cores, cyl heads. brakes. I am not at high speed with some of the new to me computer issues, thought I do understand monitors, DTC's PCMs BCMs and other things.

Kind of confused who LGJ9T is . not the OP I think...Oh well good luck Eddie
Spaghetti

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 17, 2014 08:53PM

Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't have a smartphone, I can't the get app for
> OBD tool. Any recommendations on what brand I can
> get and where from?

Probably the cheapest tool that supports Live/Real Time and Freeze Frame data that I found quickly.

http://www.amazon.com/MaxiScan-trade-Reader-AULMS310-Category/dp/B005KOZ25Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416275259&sr=8-1&keywords=Autel+OBDII

I would caution you on Actron junk, many do not support Live/Real Time data.

Even Harbor Freight have some decent cheap tools that support Live/Real Time and Freeze Frame data.

If you are going to spend in the $50 range, look at this - http://www.amazon.com/Autel-MaxiScan-MS509-OBD-II-Scanner/dp/B001LHXTO0/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1416275457&sr=8-7&keywords=Autel+OBDII

I have this, it is my first and favorite go too tool - http://www.amazon.com/Launch-301050074-Creader-Reader-Scanner/dp/B0050VONTS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416275526&sr=8-1&keywords=Launch+Creader+Vi

I also have tools that cost $4500 as well, use them when needed, but the Launch is my go too tool after my smart phone Apps.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Smokey Yunick ()
Date: November 17, 2014 09:01PM

xv4dM Can you explain to us what Live/Real time Freeze frame means and how is that a good thing to have?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 17, 2014 09:54PM

Thanks for the advice, I very much appreciate it. I think I'll look into buying the "Launch" and give it a try.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 17, 2014 10:06PM

Smokey Yunick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> xv4dM Can you explain to us what Live/Real time
> Freeze frame means and how is that a good thing to
> have?


Live/Real Time data allows the tool to display most all sensor input data like: Temperatures, Fuel Trims, O2 Sensor Voltages, Throttle Position,l MAF, RPM, Speed, Voltage and so forth.

This information is KEY to diagnosing issues and making sure your repairs have made a change in the correct direction. It is beyond me why any vendor sells any OBDII tool that does not support Live/Real Time data.

Freeze Frame data is captured by the ECM/ECU when a DTC (Trouble Code) occurs,
this is a snap shot of the engine parameters at the time the DTC event occurred.

It shows things like RPM, Speed, Timing, Fuel Trims, MAF, TPS, O2 Voltages and so forth when an event occurs.

Also better tools have on screen graphing, Some tools do better with graphing then others. I kind of prefer tools that record/log the OBD data steam and then I graph the data on external software. This way I can pick and choose what kind of data I want to graph and analyze.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 17, 2014 10:10PM

Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the advice, I very much appreciate it.
> I think I'll look into buying the "Launch" and
> give it a try.

You will not be disappointed with the Launch tool, color LCD, on tool graphing, Live/Real Time and Freeze Frame data, can record the data and you can even step through the recorded data. Not quit as good as tools that can Log and data can be graphed externally, but a very useful tool.

I have people I support with this tool that I have just take pictures of the display and email or post the pictures so I can analyze the data.

Hopefully you will save the cost of the tool on money you would have paid to have someone repair the car, you pretty much have already done this as I think we have save you $109 on the fuse for the cigarette lighter so the OBDII tool now works!

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Wait a Minute! ()
Date: November 18, 2014 03:19AM

Didn't Eddie Spaghetti say that he cleared the codes at Auto Zone and the check engine light went off, and then when he went back to get it inspected, the mechanic told him that the error message was still present in the vehicle's ECM residual memory? Doesn't that mean if he clears it out again, with an OBD tool, that the same error is just going to still be there in the residual memory?


Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The inspector told me..."The error code was
> present in the residentual memory of the vehicle's
> ECM and was showing that it had not cleared." Now,
> my check engine light is back on (it was fine
> until after they looked at it at the inspection
> station).

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: yuGVN ()
Date: November 18, 2014 03:28AM

couldn't he just get a P.O. Box in Warrenton or some place in Fauquier county, update his DMV profile saying that vehicle is garaged there and not have to worry about the emissions?

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 18, 2014 05:21AM

Wait a Minute! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't Eddie Spaghetti say that he cleared the
> codes at Auto Zone and the check engine light went
> off, and then when he went back to get it
> inspected, the mechanic told him that the error
> message was still present in the vehicle's ECM
> residual memory? Doesn't that mean if he clears it
> out again, with an OBD tool, that the same error
> is just going to still be there in the residual
> memory?
>

No, what the Inspector did not understand or CLEAR explain is the ECM had a "Pending" code in memory. This means the problem has been detected once, but needs to be detected a 2nd time within a specific number of engine start cycles before the SES/CEL/MIL actually lights up.

Clearing the codes again will also clear all the Emission Readiness Monitors and require at least 2 cold cycles and at least 10-15 miles of highway driving before most of the Emission Readiness Monitors clear again before the car can be re-inspected.

OBDII basics here that even the "Pros" do not fully understand.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 18, 2014 05:25AM

yuGVN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> couldn't he just get a P.O. Box in Warrenton or
> some place in Fauquier county, update his DMV
> profile saying that vehicle is garaged there and
> not have to worry about the emissions?

The OP "could" possibly do this, however, there is a fundamental issuer here that the car needs to be "repaired".

If the OP continues to drive the car with the Lean problem, it will likely get worse as the temps drop, cause starting, stalling and rough idle problems.

Continue to drive the engine with a Lean problem could lead to burned exhaust valve(s) and/or damage to the catalyst or engine.

Plus the OP will need to make continued payments for a PO box.

They are doing the smart thing by investing slightly over $50 for a tool they can and will continue to use and as they learn about how to use the tool and how the OBDII system works they can stay away from the foolish "Pros" that immediately want to throw sensors and hard parts at the problem.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 18, 2014 07:28AM

Thanks, I absolutely need to get this repaired, I just to get it thru inspection and then after Christmas when I have some money, I will get it repaired properly.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: considerselling ()
Date: November 18, 2014 01:54PM

I appreciate your money is tight but Id strongly advise getting rid of this vehicle and purchasing something less likely to blow up. The reviews on Edmunds are not good. Lots of troubles with this make and model most of which would total your vehicle. Im worried that unless you know for a fact this car was well cared for you are going to end up pouring money into costly repairs and still end up with a junker.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 18, 2014 02:00PM

considerselling Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I appreciate your money is tight but Id strongly
> advise getting rid of this vehicle and purchasing
> something less likely to blow up. The reviews on
> Edmunds are not good. Lots of troubles with this
> make and model most of which would total your
> vehicle. Im worried that unless you know for a
> fact this car was well cared for you are going to
> end up pouring money into costly repairs and still
> end up with a junker.

Great advice, but the OP has already purchased the vehicle, at his point, the goal is to get it to pass VA Emission Inspection. The vehicle is close to doing this and the OP should be able to "manage" the issue and get it to pass inspection.

Then they have to hope for the best. Money is likely tight. They purchased a 15 year old vehicle, it will not be problem free, but the fact it has made it 15 years is also a good sign.

The OP will likely drive the vehicle easy and not beat it into the ground so hopefully it has 4 decent tires, good brakes, exhaust and so forth.

The OP will also have an OBDII tool they can use on this or any future vehicles as well.

Telling the OP to dump the car now is not really helpful advice.

Was the Windstar the best purchase, probably not, but it probably met budget and other criteria at the time.

Lets hope the OP has good luck with getting the Emission Inspection performed and has good luck with the vehicle for at least a year or so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 02:01PM by xv4dM.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: mjs82 ()
Date: November 18, 2014 02:42PM

The OP shuld have gone back to the seller and asked them to get the car to pass inspection...

Lesson learned. never buy a used vehicle without a current month inspection sticker...

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: bYhb9 ()
Date: November 18, 2014 04:39PM

And if they were black men wearing hoodies Im sure it would have gone just the same...

Here they are all just best buddies laughing and talking about the park and 'bosses'

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: ELLHk ()
Date: November 18, 2014 04:44PM

^oops wrong thread doh

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Bad Advice Guy ()
Date: November 18, 2014 04:54PM

You should have bought something cheap and reliable, such as a Lamborghini LM002.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Uh... ()
Date: November 18, 2014 05:46PM

mjs82 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The OP shuld have gone back to the seller and
> asked them to get the car to pass inspection...
>
> Lesson learned. never buy a used vehicle without
> a current month inspection sticker...

It already has an inspection sticker. When a new or used car, you still have to go out and get the emissions tested.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Uh... ()
Date: November 18, 2014 05:47PM

Uh... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mjs82 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The OP shuld have gone back to the seller and
> > asked them to get the car to pass inspection...
> >
> > Lesson learned. never buy a used vehicle
> without
> > a current month inspection sticker...
>
> It already has an inspection sticker. When a new
> or used car, you still have to go out and get the
> emissions tested.

sorry meant to say, "When you BUY a new or used car, you still have to get the emissions tested."

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: MCNc4 ()
Date: November 18, 2014 06:15PM

xv4dM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Eddie Spaghetti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks for the advice, I very much appreciate
> it.
> > I think I'll look into buying the "Launch" and
> > give it a try.
>
> You will not be disappointed with the Launch tool,
> color LCD, on tool graphing, Live/Real Time and
> Freeze Frame data, can record the data and you can
> even step through the recorded data. Not quit as
> good as tools that can Log and data can be graphed
> externally, but a very useful tool.
>
> I have people I support with this tool that I have
> just take pictures of the display and email or
> post the pictures so I can analyze the data.
>
> Hopefully you will save the cost of the tool on
> money you would have paid to have someone repair
> the car, you pretty much have already done this as
> I think we have save you $109 on the fuse for the
> cigarette lighter so the OBDII tool now works!

What is the OP supposed to do with that tool? Even if he clears the codes dont they just come back? Ive got a similiar problem with my ford.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Smokey Yunick ()
Date: November 18, 2014 06:22PM

xv4dM Thanks for your explaining the real time and freeze features, The 50 dollar Actron tool I have does not have any of that as you already know but others may not is just a code reader that tells the user what the code is but nothing as to why the code occured and you have to know "why" to correct the trouble.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 18, 2014 06:39PM

Uh... Wrote:
> sorry meant to say, "When you BUY a new or used
> car, you still have to get the emissions tested."

Been too long since I was an Emission Inspector so it is not clear in the state of VA if the Emission Test is transferable.

I do not think the Emission Inspection is transferable, as I recall it is tied to the registered owner? Probably not the best method, however, since Emission Inspections are not required everywhere in the state this may never really have been thought through, but maybe I am wrong.

DMV will issue a Temporary Registration to a new owner to buy time to to get a valid Emission Inspection.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 18, 2014 06:45PM

MCNc4 Wrote:
> What is the OP supposed to do with that tool? Even
> if he clears the codes dont they just come back?
> Ive got a similiar problem with my ford.

So here is the deal, without your own tool you are in the dark.

The OP needs to find the narrow windows where all but 2 of the Emission Readiness Monitors have set but no Pending or Active codes have set and then take the car in for an Emission Inspection during this period.

It appears the OP's car does not trigger Pending or Active codes for something like 100 miles and I would expect that in as few as 10-15 miles the OP should be able to get all but 2 of the Emission Readiness Monitors to clear.

You are correct, that the code(s) will in fact come back if the problem is not corrected. But once the OP gets the car inspected, then they can start to work through the problem on their own schedule and use the tool to gather data and hopefully figure out where the vacuum leak(s) are and repair them.

Also just because there is not a SES/CEL/MIL light on does not mean there are no problems with the vehicle. Monitoring Fuel Trims, Engine Coolant Temperature and Emission Readiness Codes can tell a lot about how well the engine fuel management system is operating.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Smoky Yunick ()
Date: November 18, 2014 06:53PM

I "think" that If the sale is made within 30 days of the emissions inspection the emissions inspection can follow the car to a new owner. And there is a time period that when it is to soon to get a emissions test before the tags go out and I think it might be 30 days before.

But my problem is sometimes I "think" and don't "know"

A inspection station inspector will know. And if anyone is buying a car from a person not a dealer it would be smart to find out and require a emissions test before buying. Agin I "think " if a dealer sells a car it must pass emissions
unless it is sold "As Is" and that is clearly marked on the bill with the new buyers signature.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 18, 2014 07:06PM

Smokey Yunick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> xv4dM Thanks for your explaining the real time
> and freeze features, The 50 dollar Actron tool I
> have does not have any of that as you already know
> but others may not is just a code reader that
> tells the user what the code is but nothing as to
> why the code occured and you have to know "why" to
> correct the trouble.

There are really no tools or software that will tell you "why" a code or codes were triggered. DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) are "clues" and the DTC's along with Freeze Frame and Live/Real Time data will allow an experienced technician to understand better "why" a DTC or DTC's were triggered.

Most of the "why" is using your head. But you also need a fair background in Automotive Technology and a fair about of "real world" experience. People that specialize in specific makes and models of cars or trucks can usually tell you EXACTLY what the most common issues are that will trigger specific DTC's.

I can do this with some makes and models as I have very intimate knowledge of the systems and common failures on the specific models, however, I have enough experience and knowledge that I can also quickly figure out what may have failed on other models.

The most common problems on any car 8+ years old are in the following order:

1. General lack of maintenance: spark plugs, fuel filters, air filters, PCV valves and hoses, cracked or broken vacuum hoses, over extended oil and filter changes.

2. Engine temperature operating too low causing oil to contaminate too quickly and causing excessive carbon build up on both O2 sensors and catalytic converters. Contrary to even what the pros think and say, most engine operating temperature should be around 205F. Even if the vehicle has a 180F thermostat the engine should typically operate around 205F, there is a very valid and simple reason for this, but I will not go into this detail here. I estimate that about 35% of the vehicles on the road have soft thermostats causing engines to run too cool resulting in poor fuel economy, driveability problems, premature oil/crankcase contamination and carbon build up in the intake, combustion chambers and the exhaust system contaminating O2 sensors and catalytic converters.

3. Intake and crankcase air leaks due to bad gaskets, seals, O-rings, check valves, solenoids and hoses.

4. Evaporative Emission component failures: hoses, leaking gas caps, canisters, check valves and purge valve.

5. Lazy O2 sensors and/or O2 sensors with open heater circuits.

6. MAF sensors under reporting the airflow due to just age and degradation or Asian counterfeit MAF sensors that do not properly measure the intake air flow.

7. Other general sensor problems that can be caused by everything to loose female terminals inside sensor connectors, intermittent sensors, poor quality aftermarket sensors or clearly failed sensors.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 18, 2014 07:31PM

Smoky Yunick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I "think" that If the sale is made within 30 days
> of the emissions inspection the emissions
> inspection can follow the car to a new owner. And
> there is a time period that when it is to soon to
> get a emissions test before the tags go out and I
> think it might be 30 days before.
>
> But my problem is sometimes I "think" and don't
> "know"
>
> A inspection station inspector will know. And if
> anyone is buying a car from a person not a dealer
> it would be smart to find out and require a
> emissions test before buying. Agin I "think " if a
> dealer sells a car it must pass emissions
> unless it is sold "As Is" and that is clearly
> marked on the bill with the new buyers signature.

The problem here is a vehicle can pass an Emission Inspection and then quickly have a problem. Also in the case of the OP vehicle there is a high likelyhood the car pass an Emission Inspection in its current start if done in the correct time frame after the DTC's/codes are cleared.

Then the OP can address the real problem on their terms, schedule and budget.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: XXxxxxyyyyy ()
Date: November 18, 2014 07:34PM

xv4dM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Uh... Wrote:
> > sorry meant to say, "When you BUY a new or used
> > car, you still have to get the emissions
> tested."
>
> Been too long since I was an Emission Inspector so
> it is not clear in the state of VA if the Emission
> Test is transferable.
>
> I do not think the Emission Inspection is
> transferable, as I recall it is tied to the
> registered owner? Probably not the best method,
> however, since Emission Inspections are not
> required everywhere in the state this may never
> really have been thought through, but maybe I am
> wrong.
>
> DMV will issue a Temporary Registration to a new
> owner to buy time to to get a valid Emission
> Inspection.

No, because the stickers for the emission go on the license plates. When you buy the car, the plates stay with the previous owner. So that means you have to go get the emissions inspection done, get your stickers and put them on your new plate from the DMV.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 18, 2014 08:28PM

XXxxxxyyyyy Wrote:
>
> No, because the stickers for the emission go on
> the license plates. When you buy the car, the
> plates stay with the previous owner. So that means
> you have to go get the emissions inspection done,
> get your stickers and put them on your new plate
> from the DMV.

The Emission Inspection has nothing to do with the license plate stickers. The Emission Inspection results are kept electronically by the DMV and this is what triggers or allows the DMV to license plates and registration.

The fact that you have license plate stickers that are good for 1 of 2 years only means the DMV has been notified that the specific vehicle has passed an Emission inspection.

The license plate stickers are not a specific indicator that the vehicle passed an Emission Inspection, it just means the vehicle was eligible to be registered or have the current tags renewed.

If this makes sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 09:03PM by xv4dM.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: anonimnyy Rossii ()
Date: November 18, 2014 08:47PM

Hey OP, PM me.


I have a module for sale, it will make it so you can pass emissions.



I have been running straight pipes and illegal mods for over 10 years, thanks to my engineering abilities.


You plug the module into your OBD port, the module has a port so the inspection station can plug their computers in to. It emulates everything perfectly!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2014 08:48PM by anonimnyy Rossii.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: xv4dM ()
Date: November 18, 2014 09:05PM

anonimnyy Rossii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey OP, PM me.
>
>
> I have a module for sale, it will make it so you
> can pass emissions.
>
>
>
> I have been running straight pipes and illegal
> mods for over 10 years, thanks to my engineering
> abilities.
>
>
> You plug the module into your OBD port, the module
> has a port so the inspection station can plug
> their computers in to. It emulates everything
> perfectly!

Jesus, this is not the solution.

The OP has a vacuum leak/Lean condition.

The Lean condition will likely be cheaper and easier to solve than your "module" solution.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Sizzurp ()
Date: November 18, 2014 09:14PM

Totally spot on. Just call your primary care doc and tell him/her your have a sore throat and coughing fits and you will get your lean situation straightened out, for reals.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: anonimnyy Rossii ()
Date: November 18, 2014 09:25PM

>
> Jesus, this is not the solution.
>
> The OP has a vacuum leak/Lean condition.
>
> The Lean condition will likely be cheaper and
> easier to solve than your "module" solution.


Says the mechanic.

Oh yeah, just a vacuum leak today.

Oh, well looks like you will also need need new 02 sensors as well.


Oh and your valve cover gasket is leaking too.


And finally, you will need a new cat as well.


$1,874

x_____________ sign here

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: lollersss ()
Date: November 18, 2014 09:43PM

lol to trust or not to trust that is the question. Its the reason I started learning about cars. I still think that if the OP gets the stupid code for free from an auto parts store (easier than buying windshield wiper fluid) he could google the code, his exact make model year and the word 'forums' and he would, in an hour of reading be able to narrow down the problem to one or two likely issues. Some might be very cheap (gas cap). Many he could do himself. if the diagnostic is too broad pay 100 bucks to have it properly diagnosed. Then decide if he wants to do it or not.

Not to be a dick but this is inexpensive as car ownership gets. If you cannot afford to pay a mechanic you must be able to use google, common sense and simple tools. If you cannot do that you will not be driving you will be walking. People think auto mechanics are a dim lot - they are not. They have experience and use scientific process to be efficient. People that think auto repair is easy are wrong and people that think its very difficult are usually wrong. Its just a matter of time and intelligence.

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Re: VA Emissions Inspection Fail Questions - is price quoted to me fair?
Posted by: Eddie Spaghetti ()
Date: November 19, 2014 09:39AM

lollersss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lol to trust or not to trust that is the question.
> Its the reason I started learning about cars. I
> still think that if the OP gets the stupid code
> for free from an auto parts store (easier than
> buying windshield wiper fluid) he could google the
> code, his exact make model year and the word
> 'forums' and he would, in an hour of reading be
> able to narrow down the problem to one or two
> likely issues. Some might be very cheap (gas
> cap). Many he could do himself. if the
> diagnostic is too broad pay 100 bucks to have it
> properly diagnosed. Then decide if he wants to do
> it or not.
>
> Not to be a dick but this is inexpensive as car
> ownership gets. If you cannot afford to pay a
> mechanic you must be able to use google, common
> sense and simple tools. If you cannot do that you
> will not be driving you will be walking. People
> think auto mechanics are a dim lot - they are not.
> They have experience and use scientific process
> to be efficient. People that think auto repair is
> easy are wrong and people that think its very
> difficult are usually wrong. Its just a matter of
> time and intelligence.

Oh, I did. The problem is there are so many problems & solutions for the codes.

The initial issue where they couldn't even read the ECM was due to a fuse being blown for the cigarette lighter, which powers it. The shop tried to charge me $109 just to diagnose that and the check engine light.

So fortunately, some people in this thread were able to provide really good advice. I got that issue fixed, resolved 2 of the 3 codes. Now all I have is this issue to deal with...

P0174 System too Lean (Bank 2)

***I've ordered the "Launch" OBD tool and an old mechanic friend of mine (who has an OBD tool and has fixed emissions before for others in the area) has come out of retirement and I'm hoping he can help me fix this problem.

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