I as a citizen of this county am pulling all the syllabi, handbooks, financial obligation information for all the Band, Chorus, and Orchestra programs in the FCPS high schools via FOIA. Again. Guitar, I just haven't gotten around to you yet. Read and heed.

I have attached a copy of a draft of a lovely letter crafted by Dr. Garza explaining the new policies with music classes and their relationship with parent Booster clubs. It was supposedly being considered to send out to all the families and staff. I don't know if it made it or not.

I am also attaching several applicable regulations and a couple of pages from the brand-new School Finance Handbook. This is version 1.0 and it looks like there is an error here because these obviously apply to PTA/PTO and Booster groups but the wording is not consistent. Perhaps the next version will be corrected. I think they might have been in a hurry to get this out. I know this information has been communicated to the staff and Booster clubs as there has been some complaining about these issues.

As many of you know, the financial management of music programs in FCPS has undergone some enormous changes in the last couple of years. After extensive consultation with their legal teams, the practice of letting parents independently determine and assess fees for music classes was determined to not be compliant with the state laws. The practice of allowing parent groups manage what are school activity funds in their non-profit bank accounts (certain fees for classes, school trips, school uniform rental, other optional FCPS-sponsored activities) was also determined to not be consistent with appropriate business practice and state laws.

You all had meetings last winter explaining the changes. The FAQ's and Guidelines and a copy of the optional MOA are on the FCPS website, under Administration, then Financial Services, then Comptroller. There is also a template that can be used for sending out fee notices. I might post those later if needed. Otherwise, you can look them up. They were widely disseminated.

You all have had a lot of time to straighten this all out. There was a similar thread last year about this. This new thread is for school year 2014-15. This year names of programs and groups will be presented, along with the documents I receive. Please note that I do my evaluations based on what I receive from the DCCO. They contact the schools to get the information requested. If the schools provide the wrong information, then I will never know the difference. I am strictly a volunteer. I can do this if I want. These are all public records and subject to public discussion. I also am not privy to any discussions you might have had recently. I am evaluating these based on the current published school policies and applicable state and Federal laws as an ordinary citizen would interpret them. I am certainly not an expert at this. However, sometimes common sense trumps advanced education.

Booster clubs and staff are required to follow all applicable school regulations, state, and Federal laws. Staff hold professional licenses and this is one of the requirements of your licenses. Failure to comply can result in suspension of your license. If Booster clubs fail to comply with certain laws you can lose your non-profit status or be subject to a lot of legal problems. If anybody is unhappy about the changes then you need to take it up with Dr. Garza and the legal and business teams or contact your state or Federal legislators.

I know you all work hard and want the best for the children, but you are limited as to what you can do to the children and the families in order to accomplish your dreams. Sometimes you have to adjust your dreams to a more realistic goal. That's life. Particularly during rough economic times. Many families in this area have experienced recent job losses, salary cuts, etc. Fairfax County is not immune to these types of problems.

I am going to next post some generalizations that I have seen in reviewing half of the reports. I will then proceed to post individual programs and discuss what I am seeing. This could take several weeks as this is an enormous amount of material.

Overcoming years of neglect, sloppy practices, and basically ignoring school policies is going to be very difficult. These look quite a bit better this year, but there is still a long way to go with this.
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Don't worry about music classes. The GOP is in power and will slashing gov programs soon. That will result in music and after school FCPS activities cancelled. You're wasting your until 2016.

Sometimes you have to adjust your dreams to a more realistic goal.

Translation: Scale back your programs. Stop attempting to achieve excellence. Don't try to compete with schools in other counties or states. Let other music programs in other jurisdictions pass you by.

That is exactly what is happening with the band programs in FCPS. It will be slow - not overnight. But in 5 years the band programs in FCPS will not be anywhere near what they are now.

"But in 5 years the band programs in FCPS will not be anywhere near what they are now.?

Is that a bad thing?

To put it another way, in an area where there are so many opportunities for serious musicians, should the schools be trying to produce top notch school bands? Or should they be simply trying to expose as many kids as possible to music so they can pursue more serious options if they choose?

I am strongly in favor of music and arts programs in the schools. Whether that is carried to higher levels, and if so which, should be something that is decided by the students on a year by year basis, based on interest, talent and participation. If kids want to be in a marching band that performs at halftime of football games, then fine. If kids want to kick it up and have a competition grade marching band, then fine. If kids instead would prefer to provide musical accompaniment to drama productions or chorus productions, that should be fine as well. And the decision should not be forced on students by either school or county administrators or by band boosters.

Generalizations on what I am seeing-

I was not involved in the discussions about Individual Fundraising Accounts. Apparently a decision was made to tell Booster clubs to quit doing them. Now. That seems to be compliant with what I have seen in the general literature. I presume the school is not doing them with school fundraisers. I am still seeing references to IFA's. I noticed that some groups instead of doing IFA's have resorted to passing out gift cards to students who participate in fundraisers which results in them benefitting personally from these fundraisers. Could somebody explain to me why if IFA's are banned, this is an appropriate thing to do? Fundraisers are supposed to benefit all students equally whether they participate in the fundraiser or not (School Finance Handbook). There is not one price for a school trip for those who participate in a fundraisers and one price for those who don't. The price is the price.

All fundraising is completely optional in FCPS. This is public school. See Dr. Garza's draft. Reg 1370-Participation in fundraising cannot be used as an academic indicator. Students are not to be pulled out of classes for fundraisers. Any revenue of parent groups involving students or property, even for activities sponsored by parent groups, is required to be recorded in the school activity fund records (this is new, reg 5810 page 9).

All curricular concerts were determined to be events where admission cannot be charged. They might slap a fancy name on the December concert, for example, but it is probably just the standard winter concert performance. Curricular. Any other events using students where a fee is paid for admission are supposed to use serially numbered tickets and the funds are supposed to be turned in to the school (reg 5812). Remember, the 5810 also requires the money to be recorded in the school activity funds. I think the 1370 needs to be revised. That is not current and clear.

I am seeing conflicts with the Tiny Tots concerts, for example. They are held during the school day as well as in the evening. The money for at least some of these is going to private corporations (Booster clubs). I have formally asked the School Board auditor for an explanation as to why students are being pulled out of class to raise money for private corporations. If these are curricular concerts, as some of them indicate, admission cannot be charged. I also see conflicts with the marching band competitions that are held in this area (students are used to generate revenue), evening concerts like special Broadway and jazz nights, car washes, student garage sales, TAG days, etc.. I have no idea where some of this is going. It clearly appears that all these types of revenue should run through a school account and I know a lot of it is going to the non-profits. This has also been brought to the attention of the School Board auditor and the School Board.

There is a lot of use of the words requested, expected, etc. Looking up the definitions in various dictionaries and looking at this usage in the context of a teacher expecting or requesting a student or family do something, I do not interpret these words as "optional" at all. I brought this issue up last year. I am seeing a lot of use of these words, with a "mandatory" version later on in the publications. These are not clear terms. They are very vague. I consider them a huffy way of indirectly insinuating that something is really mandatory. Get the terms straight.

Volunteers are not allowed to have access to student ID numbers, including volunteers who sign the MOA. So, how is a portion of it being used to set up CHARMS accounts and why?

I am not happy with the way FARM is being handled. The idea of a teacher telling a volunteer to mark somebody paid in full who has NOT paid in full because they are legally entitled to a discounted fee makes no sense to me from either a financial or privacy standpoint. I called down to the Dept. of Education in Richmond last year, spoke to the woman in charge of the program, and the form that you sign to allow release of your status to school staff in order to obtain discounts on class fees, etc. applies to school staff only. Volunteers are considered school officials under FERPA so that they can help school staff with other things. The form you sign does NOT give permission for volunteers to know your FARM status. This is to protect your privacy, rights, and dignity. If you feel you are being violated the number to call is 1-804-225-2074.

Bills for school-sponsored activities and classes are supposed to be presented on school letterhead. Staff and school property are not supposed to be used to help Boosters with their financial aspirations. So, it would appear that the communications are to be kept separate. Boosters are not supposed to be presenting FCPS bills on their forms. I have already found one case of this.

Pre-season marching camps, both at school and away, are school-sponsored activities, which means that the fees are supposed to run through school accounts. I am seeing a lot of these running through Booster accounts. They are also technically optional, and are supposed to be calculated out separated from the other marching fees. If you are not charging for these camps, and Boosters are trying to pay for these out of various and assorted ways (like asking parents to contribute or donate), you are shortchanging yourselves. Parents don't have to donate for anything. They do have to pay fees, and those are actual cost, which further protects the parents. And if they donate for these, they should not be writing the payments off on their taxes, as they have received services in exchange for their donations. Same with pre-season trips, like Orkney and West Virginia. I would assume overnight assessment trips should be priced out separately and are school-sponsored trips and need to be run through school accounts. I am seeing a lot of usage of the term travel supplement. Retire it. It is an FCPS trip fee.

I see many groups talking about doing fundraisers for spring trips and things, with the correct idea of spreading the money equally among the participants and helping more kids to go on the trips. I personally think you are knocking yourselves out for nothing here. These trips are completely optional. They are a luxury. If you raise $3750 to help out 150 kids, that is a whopping $25 a child. That is a drop in the bucket on a $700 trip. Make them pay their own way. Take the $3750 and buy some instruments or music or additional instructors. You are suckers for punishment.

I am seeing some situations where a uniform rental fee is not being clearly charged. This is a fabulous way to generate funds to replace the uniforms. Use it. The uniforms are school property, just like the instruments. Take the rental fee and establish a Uniform Reserve Fund in a school account. One less thing for Boosters to worry about. It is right in the template.

There are also very clear provisions for the needy in the fee notice that was updated this year. This is not a Booster problem. This is a school system problem and they need to deal with these kids. There is something in the guidelines about how Boosters can still help the needy but can't give funds to the school earmarked for a particular student. I haven't figured out how this works. I don't know if these are put in an account for the staff to decide or what. Many of the clubs and syllabi are saying kids have to help fundraise if they receive assistance from Boosters, so I am not following the privacy issues and money chain. Children who receive assistance directly from the school system because they qualify under the fee notice are not allowed to be singled out and told to do fundraising. That is a state law. The optional trips are not eligible for discounts under the fee notice. Know your rights.

It is imperative that school activity funds run through a school account as we took a look at Booster insurance policies last year and found that the two major insurers have exclusions in their officer liability policies for either management of government funds (which these are) or for problems resulting from agreements made with Superintendents, school systems, principals, etc. There are also limits on coverage for loss which could leave you in the position of not having enough coverage for a major loss. Some companies do not want to cover government funds for loss if they are in the care of a Booster club. Some Booster clubs were not insured, were underinsured, or not doing the things that are required to maintain their policies, like monitoring bank statements and doing annual reviews or audits. It is in the best interest of the Booster officers and the parents to run money for school-sponsored things through a school account and not play games with donating, contributing, and all the other ridiculous terms I am seeing used to convince parents to turn this money over to a Booster club and give away their rights. If you write a check to the school system and it disappears, you will get your money back very easily. Not so easy with a Booster club. Keep very careful records. The school records are completely open and easily accessible, including redacted student payment spreadsheets, receipts, and all accounting data. Booster records are not necessarily open to that extent. I found out the hard way and got burned. Trust me. You have rights as citizens of this county and state. USE THEM.

On to specifics....

Quit whining. Booster clubs also never really had the right to collect the stuff they were asking for. They were looking at wearing orange jumpsuits. Lot of good you are doing for your kids if you are in jail because you demanded or coerced money from somebody that you weren't entitled to, got it, took it, and didn't want to give it back or couldn't give it back. All because you wanted some over-the-top music program. Wake up.

The school system has the right to collect and set limits like no prom, no parking pass, no locker, no spring trip etc. for people who refuse to pay fees. They can't withhold diplomas, but they have some clout you never had.

Centreville is going first. Later on...

Centreville HS Orchestra is first. This is important. I am not trying to be mean. This is all public record. About 20 years ago somebody in this group set them up as a 501c4, NOT a 501c3. I figured this out last year, I simply could not believe it and obtained the original documents from the IRS, as any citizen can do. It took months, but it showed up. I am posting the original letter.

What this means, and this is very important, is that anybody who donates money to this group CANNOT take a tax deduction on it. The IRS was very clear about this in the original letter, even clearly recommended that this group consider 501c3 status. Depending on your gross receipts and some other things you may or may not be obligated to inform people who donate to you of this. But, they are still not entitled to take a tax write-off. I personally think it is only fair to make it very clear to businesses and individuals who are donating to your organization what the terms are. I called this morning at 8am and you are still registered as a 501c4 with the IRS. Are you doing the correct tax return? They have you as doing the e-postcard. You were running school trips and some other things through your account in previous years.

Nice job putting out the FCPS fees. You made mention that the SOPA dues were optional, but told everybody to make out a check and bring it to the meeting. That is IF they choose to donate.

You mention trip fundraisers lowering the cost. IFA's have been banned. Not sure how you are setting this up.

Remember that all fundraisers are optional. How is TAG day being handled this year in view of the IRS status?

As a former violinist, I wish you the best of years. Those were some of the best memories of my childhood.
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Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "But in 5 years the band programs in FCPS will not
> be anywhere near what they are now.?
>
> Is that a bad thing?
>
> To put it another way, in an area where there are
> so many opportunities for serious musicians,
> should the schools be trying to produce top notch
> school bands? Or should they be simply trying to
> expose as many kids as possible to music so they
> can pursue more serious options if they choose?
>
> I am strongly in favor of music and arts programs
> in the schools. Whether that is carried to higher
> levels, and if so which, should be something that
> is decided by the students on a year by year
> basis, based on interest, talent and
> participation. If kids want to be in a marching
> band that performs at halftime of football games,
> then fine. If kids want to kick it up and have a
> competition grade marching band, then fine. If
> kids instead would prefer to provide musical
> accompaniment to drama productions or chorus
> productions, that should be fine as well. And the
> decision should not be forced on students by
> either school or county administrators or by band
> boosters.


Marching Band is part of the curriculum. Competitions are part of their training and their coursework, as are the football performances.

Bands and orchestras for musicals and things are optional activities.

The fee structure is there to set some type of limits so that the programs do not become inappropriately excessive, and thus more affordable to more students. They are set at consumables and at cost by state law. The needy get discounted fees. This is public school. The extras can be determined by the amount of money you are able to obtain from donations. Some years might be better than others. I will be posting the appropriated funds allocated to each group in a later post. I have not received those yet. These are wonderful. Thank you Fairfax County taxpayers.

Fundraisers are optional. That includes TAG day and anything else that might be in bold that is a fundraiser. You say participation is graded. You are not allowed to tie academic indicators to participation in fundraisers. You can't have people sign a contract for a course and include mandatory fundraising participation.

No IFA's are allowed.

I have been a singer for 45 years and I wish you the best of years.
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I was presented with a Band Handbook from the DCCO. I also found a publication from May of 2014 on their website.

They are very different. The May publication has payments going to both the School and the Boosters. It says more information is coming. The Handbook has all the money going to the Boosters. $335 to Boosters for Marching Band and regular Band. It is NOT marked as optional. I am letting Gatehouse figure this out. I do not have access to CHARMS, etc. Parents, DO NOT pay this type of money for these types of expenditures to a Booster club under any circumstances. Do NOT give them any money for a spring trip. It MUST run through the school system. And that includes deposits.

All I know is what I am given from DCCO. Which is what the schools give them. I should be getting accurate information. If I am not, that is your problem.

Summer band camp is technically optional and should be priced out separately.

TAG day and all fundraisers are optional. Volunteering is technically optional. We all know you need the money and the volunteers. I am just pointing this out.

Who all has access to FCPS student ID's?
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Hot off the DCCO press. The appropriated funds for this school year. Thank you Fairfax County taxpayers.
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senza sord Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers are not allowed to have access to
> student ID numbers, including volunteers who sign
> the MOA. So, how is a portion of it being used to
> set up CHARMS accounts and why?


"[volunteers] are considered to be 'school officials'"

"FCPS may allow [volunteers] to access personally-identifiable student information and records"

readthemoa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> senza sord Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Volunteers are not allowed to have access to
> > student ID numbers, including volunteers who
> sign
> > the MOA. So, how is a portion of it being used
> to
> > set up CHARMS accounts and why?
>
>
> "[volunteers] are considered to be 'school
> officials'"
>
> "FCPS may allow [volunteers] to access
> personally-identifiable student information and
> records"


I read the MOA. And I called Richmond last year. The form the FARM kids parents sign authorizes the release of their FARM status to school staff. The lady I talked with said that did not transfer to volunteers. They had to have specific permission to allow volunteers to have this type of information. The volunteers are school officials under FERPA so that they can assist the schools.

All I know is what the director of the program in Richmond told me. I read her a copy of the form verbatim. We discussed FERPA. She said FARM was different. I am not calling her again.

I pointed this out to Gatehouse last year.

I spoke directly with Catherine Digilio Grimes. The director. I was very specific. So was she.

Boosters and volunteers are outside parties. Staff is not authorized to release this FARM information without parent permission to Boosters or volunteers.

She said she thought some schools might be letting volunteers have access, but there had to be a specific permission form signed by the parents to allow volunteers to have access to this information. This is a different class of information than standard FERPA material. There is also another number to call for problems. I talked with the director at the 804 number.

They are so strict on this because it is horrible to have your peers find out that you are on public assistance. No kidding.

Maybe she changed her mind, but she was very firm about this.
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......and here is the Student ID information. The MOA refers to the guidelines. It is in the guidelines. No student ID's to volunteers helping out the schools with this. We talked about this extensively when I was meeting with Gatehouse officials. There were numerous instances of this. There still are. They were even having people write the number on checks. No can do.
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Just a factoid for you...

When you say "you all had meetings about this last year", you are not entirely correct. What I think you aren't very clear on is that when these changes were getting hashed out, the folks in Central decided to focus everything just on Band to start with. So 90% of the discussion and 'meetings' have been with Band directors and Band boosters. They did not/have not happened in any consistent way with Orchestra, Chorus, or anyone else. Any info those teachers and boosters know of is simply word of mouth.

So - when you post the Orchestra and Chorus syllabi, etc for all the programs and pick them apart to evaluate them, be clear that these teachers were not the ones that the county folks had focused on - and may not be as up to date on these issues as the Band directors are.

You know what's funny about those Consent to Share forms parents sign to release the information about FARM?

- Music teachers are not supposed to know who is on FARM unless those forms have been signed an turned in

- Guess who my school has hand the forms out? The teachers. So, the teacher has to know who is on FARM in order to give them out to the right people, so that the parents can sign it, giving the teacher permission to know that they are on FARM.

Awesome system, huh?

just fyi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a factoid for you...
>
> When you say "you all had meetings about this last
> year", you are not entirely correct. What I think
> you aren't very clear on is that when these
> changes were getting hashed out, the folks in
> Central decided to focus everything just on Band
> to start with. So 90% of the discussion and
> 'meetings' have been with Band directors and Band
> boosters. They did not/have not happened in any
> consistent way with Orchestra, Chorus, or anyone
> else. Any info those teachers and boosters know
> of is simply word of mouth.
>
> So - when you post the Orchestra and Chorus
> syllabi, etc for all the programs and pick them
> apart to evaluate them, be clear that these
> teachers were not the ones that the county folks
> had focused on - and may not be as up to date on
> these issues as the Band directors are.

I figured that. However, the school regulations and state laws and everything still apply. They always did. They have been mucking around with this long enough. Time's up. Parents and students have rights. And I am telling them what they are right here right now. This has gone on long enough.

I am probably not 100%, but I am probably pretty darn close. If you read the regulations , it is all there. Their legal people told them to move school activity funds over to school accounts. They should not be stalling on this. They started this four years ago when I first pointed out there was a big problem. Get the lead out. Chorus and orchestra school activity funds aren't any different than band school activity funds.

If they have the money and time to go out to dinner at Morton's with the HSPA and go golfing on the public dollar and check into the Annapolis Westin, I have no sympathy. You shouldn't either. I was told over and over that the finance tech contract was extended into summer to help with some of this. I saw it on the final budget. That was two years ago.

>
> If they have the money and time to go out to
> dinner at Morton's with the HSPA and go golfing on
> the public dollar and check into the Annapolis
> Westin, I have no sympathy. You shouldn't either.

Are you implying that music staff are doing this? You need to be clear on who you are talking about.

What about the PTSA's and PTO's? How are they different than booster organizations?

tJunN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > If they have the money and time to go out to
> > dinner at Morton's with the HSPA and go golfing
> on
> > the public dollar and check into the Annapolis
> > Westin, I have no sympathy. You shouldn't
> either.
>
> Are you implying that music staff are doing this?
> You need to be clear on who you are talking about.


The people who are supposed to be instituting, communicating, and enforcing all these changes. The people in charge of the schools.

ptsapto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about the PTSA's and PTO's? How are they
> different than booster organizations?

I don't think there is a big difference. They are independent non-profits. The PTA's are on a national charter of some type. They both have their own bank accounts. All the groups have to follow the fundraising guidelines, etc.

Now it is time for Westfield Band. Some history here. Last year they had the school fees and $230 of "development" charges payable to the Boosters on the same form. A Booster form. I reported this in September and it took months of arguing to get this straightened out. I am attaching the letter that had to be sent to all the families clarifying this and offering refunds. You are talking tens of thousands of dollars on the line here. There was an issue with this the year before that with another school. That also took six months to straighten out. So, that should have been a big wakeup call to notify these parent groups not to do this. It obviously wasn't.

It was made very clear that school fees are supposed to be on FCPS letterhead.This was in the FAQ's and further clarified when McLean specifically asked this question. They said NO to Boosters putting out the bills. So, here we have a Booster Club registration form in the syllabus (remember, school staff and property are not supposed to be used to help Boosters collect funds that they want), they are asking for the Student ID (a no no in the guidelines), and the Booster requests are right with the FCPS fees. Again. The Booster requests are presented as optional. I am running out of patience.

I don't see a breakout for pre-season camp. I don't see a specific breakout for uniform replacement. You guys are shooting yourselves in the feet. Take the fees, folks. Use them. They are a very powerful financial weapon to support these programs.

Fundraising is optional. You don't have to sell mattresses, etc., even if you want to go to the Rose Bowl. It's nice if you can do this, but it is optional.

I hope you had a great time, by the way. I am sure that was an incredible experience.
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Westfield Chorus.

My yellow marker starting acting up so I couldn't highlight everything.

Tag Day is optional.
Who all gets the student ID numbers?
This program gets appropriated funds to help with transportation. You can certainly charge for accompanists, uniforms, and some other things in an FCPS fee. Take advantage of it.
IFA's are banned.

FARM kids do NOT have to do any fundraising to help cover the class fee if it is paid to the school system. They have entitlements under the Fee Notice and no strings are attached. They should no longer have an IFA anyway.
The class fee money is going to the Choral Boosters. It should go to the school. It has to be optional if the Choral Boosters charge it. Boosters are not authorized to independently determine, assess, and collect a fee for a class. That is state law.

Parents, you have to the right to pay the course fee to the school system, have complete access to the records, etc. DO NOT, under ANY circumstances, write checks to the Booster club for your Spring Trip. It is just too much money, the school system is supposed to be processing school trips, the principal is supposed to be signing all contracts and checks for those. Officers, DO NOT contract for any services for these trips. That is not in your job description. Those trips are a public transaction that falls under FCPS.
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This is very sketchy information. I do not have access to CHARMS to see where things are going.

Uniforms are owned by FCPS. Any rental fee should be run through the school system. You are renting public property.

Do NOT, under any circumstances, write any checks to your Booster club for your Spring Trip. Write them to the school.

Remember that fundraisers are optional.
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senza sord Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Marching Band is part of the curriculum.
> Competitions are part of their training and their
> coursework, as are the football performances.
>
> Bands and orchestras for musicals and things are
> optional activities.

I wasn't addressing your post, but rather was responding to a comment made in response to your post. Since you chose to challenge my position, I will do the same.

Your argument is circular. Marching band and marching band competitions are part of the curriculum and musicals are not because that is how school administrators decided it would be. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THIS WAY. It wasn't that long ago when marching band was, like football, considered to be an optional extracurricular activity. When I was in school it was considered normal for the band to perform in drama musicals.

Once you accept that having competition grade marching bands, or marching bands in general, is a choice, the next question is IS IT THE RIGHT CHOICE? That is what I was driving at in my post.

Bill N. I have seen a lot of your posts and you seem very level-headed. A rare find in NOVA. Marching Band is currently curricular. I am just going to leave it at that.

Now are going to look at Madison Band.

The Boosters have been quite a challenge. Two years ago I caught them sending everybody a bill for $250 and they said pay it or fundraise it. It took six months to straighten that out and it took a lot of arguing with Gatehouse. The letter is attached. The Boosters immediately turned around and said they needed $200 to pay for pre-season and some school-sponsored travel last year. They flat out said that it was tax-deductible because the money was being paid to a 501c3. It took six months to straighten that out, and it took a lot of arguing with Gatehouse. I kept mentioning tax fraud being encouraged on bills for school-sponsored services. Over and over and over. The letter is attached.

This year, I was told that there wasn't a syllabus. I insisted there probably was and enlisted the Deputy along with DCCO. There was a syllabus. I will post that separately as I forgot to save it and I don't want to lose this accidentally.

I am posting the financial information I received. I can't tell if this is on school letterhead or not. The same logo is used for the school fee information (of which there are two different sets) as well as the Booster donation request form. They are supposed to be kept separate. This year I am counting at least half a dozen requests for $500 from each and every student because it costs $1300 per student to be in Band. Yes, $1300. Is that with or without the optional trips, folks? The $500 is supposed to help fund pre-season and some travel. Pre-season and travel are both school-sponsored and those are supposed to run through a school account with at cost terms, which are supposed to be presented to the parents. They should be separate. They say to consult with your tax advisor. Kind of hard to do when people haven't been given a specific breakdown of what is goods and services received and what is donation (they are required to do this). Were they going to be given this?

The $1300 comes across as an grossly inflated unsubstantiated amount used to try and pressure parents to write a $500 check. Per student.

Excess FCPS fees are supposed to be returned to families, NOT scooped into a Uniform Reserve Fund. That was specifically addressed in the FAQ's. You can have a specific amount charged for uniform rental and use that to establish the uniform fund with the school.

I can't figure out how the travel is working for Grand Nationals. That is a school-sponsored trip and the contracts and finances are supposed to run through the school system. Period. End of discussion on that.

All fundraisers are optional.

I have the School Board Auditor and the School Board working on Tiny Tots concerts issues with this school and some others. No fundraisers are allowed during the school day. Curricular concerts are not be used as fundraisers. Any revenue generated by a Booster sponsored activity which involves use of students and school property is to have the money in the school accounts. Is this an actual Booster sponsored activity? Students, staff, and property are used. There are also supposed to be serially numbered tickets for these concerts. I know these are cute and everything but this just never stops when you start pulling kids out of classes to raise funds, and for a non-profit corporation to boot if that is what they are doing, which I think they are.

Whatever you do, DO NOT write checks to the Boosters for your spring trip. Give me a break.
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The Madison Band syllabus.
Ok I think I am going to take a break. More stuff coming.
This is going to take weeks. I am going to analyze all 75 of them.
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"This could take several weeks as this is an enormous amount of material."

Where do I apply for a refund of my Fairfax County tax dollars that have been spent compiling all of this?

refundplease Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "This could take several weeks as this is an
> enormous amount of material."
>
> Where do I apply for a refund of my Fairfax County
> tax dollars that have been spent compiling all of
> this?


It's a state law, they have to provide these upon request, I have paid my FOIA fees. If you don't like FOIA, take it up with your legislator. It is the law of the land. Good night.

If you don't like your tax dollars being used for FOIA, contact Jim LeMunyon. DelJLeMunyon@house.virginia.gov. Let me know what he says. He knows who I am, that's for sure.

Still want to talk about FOIA and taxes, etc.?

Try Barbara Comstock. I don't know her views, but her husband works for the school system and I spent hours with him in a front office going over public records.

Linda Smyth is also familiar with why this situation had to be addressed. If you call her, tell her hello for me.

And, look what Jim LeMunyon has been up to. FOIA is one of his projects.

Go ahead! Complain! Please!
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Let's do a couple more. Madison Choir.
As of last year all this was running through the school.

Students are not making a "contribution" for their class. They are paying an FCPS fee for consumables. I know the choir and orchestra people didn't get the Big Brief. There isn't any separate uniform fee, but there certainly could be if FCPS is providing dresses, cummerbunds, and tux jackets. Charge your full fees. You have a right to do that. Most of the people at Madison can well afford to pay a full fee.

What do you mean by "incentives" for students who fundraise? And what do you mean by parents can "elect" to give a donation in lieu of participating in fundraising? Are they given one choice or the other and told to produce, as in sell X number of apple pies or write a check? Fundraising is optional. The money goes into the General fund to be used equally for all the students. You are not allowed to tie fundraising to academic indicators. There aren't any IFA's any more. So, WHAT ARE THE INCENTIVES?
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Oh dear. Madison Orchestra.

Students provide their own uniforms, so no uniform fees are needed.
There aren't supposed to be any more IFA's.
Students DO NOT have to "bear their proportional share" in the Orchestra Parent Association General Budget and a teacher is not supposed to be telling them this either. It looks like whether you fundraise/contribute or not is tied in with the Spring Trip payments.

I love the Black Box, although it looks like things are still really messed up because you are telling them that they are to bear their proportional share of the Orchestra Parent Association General Budget or fundraise or maybe something happens with the Spring Trip payments.(?) It shouldn't make any difference.

Students are supposed to pay an FCPS course fee for consumables and the money should run through a school account. This program also receives appropriated funds for travel and assessments. Students should make Spring Trip payments to the school. The Orchestra Parents Association budget is THEIR problem.

Parents, whatever you do, DO NOT write any checks to this Booster club for your Spring Trip. Those are supposed to run through a school account. Those are public transactions. Officers, you are not authorized to sign contracts for public transactions. Don't sign anything for the Spring Trip. You are not authorized to commit public funds.
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Moving over to Herndon Choir.

All fundraisers are optional.
Course fees should be labeled as FCPS course fees and run through the school.
Nice job with donation page, except that donation checks to a Booster club probably should not go through the teacher.
Another problem is with Cabaret Night and giving tickets to people who make donations to the Booster club. All performances with an admission fee involving students are supposed to use serially numbered tickets and the funds are supposed to run through a school account. So, how and why is a Booster club able to offer tickets as a condition of a donation to their corporation? Are they purchasing these? I think people are supposed to subtract out the cost of the tickets when they take their tax write-off.

If they go on any school trips, DO NOT write any checks to the Boosters. Those are supposed to run through the school.
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Still want to gripe about FOIA?

Here are two more options for you. If you call VCOG, say hello to Megan for me.

If you will excuse me I am going to go fly the flag, go to work, and then go out for a free dinner on this wonderful Veteran's Day. It is one of my favorite days of the year.
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OK folks, gather 'round. Print up a copy of this report. We are going to have a chat about why the Booster clubs need to get out of the business of handling school trip money (and other public funds) in their bank accounts IMMEDIATELY. Not next year. Not two years from now. NOW. The school system has been stalling way too long on this. The Chorus and Orchestra programs are being left in the lurch right now. Some of the Band programs are still playing games with the money.

Print up a copy and follow along.

This trip was in April of 2012. I obtained accounting data in March, sounded the alarm as it looked like dozens of kids still weren't paid up. Everybody was allowed to travel whether they paid or not. Don't let people do this.

I pulled more records. I kept asking questions. I was told after the trip that everything was fine, the trip was shut down, the books were closed up. All I did was calculate out how many kids traveled, multiplied it by the cost of the trip, and point out that the numbers didn't jive. I talked it over with the front office, we factored in three families who made partial payments and then backed out. NO STAFF MEMBER CHECKED WITH THE PARENTS, THE SCHOOL PAID FOR THEIR TRIPS, THE PARENTS REFUSED TO MAKE ANY MORE PAYMENTS, AND WE ALL GOT TAKEN TO THE CLEANERS. Even factoring that in, the numbers did not match up. I persisted. I insisted. I basically screamed bloody murder.

The money for this trip was running through a school bank account. The payments were being kept track of on a Booster computer by a volunteer. We obtained a copy of another spreadsheet after the trip had been shut down. The thing never made it to the file folder in the front office. I don't think anybody responsible even looked at it. There were numerous errors, people under and over paid, math errors, etc.

One of the school officials spent many, many long hours going through all the deposit receipts, etc. to completely recreate this spreadsheet. I saw a bill for $1000 of bank records. The citizens of the county paid for that. They finally stopped that due to the cost.

To quickly summarize this, I compared the two heavily redacted spreadsheets, and due to certain very unusual amounts, was able to match up most of the payment problems on the two spreadsheets. There were several large payments recorded on the first sheet that did not show up on the second, the one you are looking at right now. It made certain people look like they were paid in full when they weren't. I think you know what that means.

First of all, I was told the Boosters took it upon themselves to threaten one of the families who backed out, and they coughed up the rest of the money. They didn't have the right to do that. They are volunteers. This was a school-sponsored trip. Unfortunately, since the school staff were remiss in not talking to the PARENTS before paying for the trip, and the family was threatened by a bunch of volunteers, a very large check was politely written to them as arrangements could have been made with the travel agency if somebody had been paying attention to the deadlines. The other two just walked away from their $50 deposit and left us in the lurch. This is why you want very large deposits. This is why the terms need to be presented up front. This is why you need you make sure BEFORE you pay for somebody's trip that they are really traveling. Look at the number of people who ignored the payment due dates and came wandering in at the last minute with the money. Get a huge deposit.

One of the school officials had to call dozens of families asking for them to pay up, or confirming overpayments and offering refunds. The little $8 ones are not the issue. There were several families who owed large amounts-
$220, $218, $184, $168, $400, $500, $200, $206, etc. Most of them paid up real quick. Yeh. The $500 family worked out a payment plan. The schools are not supposed to float loans to people! They had to make an exception because they messed up. There were several families who were owed large refunds-$50, $50, $100, $218, $84, $50, $200, $218, $50, $64, $97, $50, $206, $100, etc. They were all paid back by the school system. I fought, kicked, and screamed for you people, and in return for that I have been called an effing bitch and a whole host of other names. Apparently I am the "laughingstock of Fairfax County". You are very welcome. I hope you enjoyed receiving your checks. And I am very glad that you people who can't keep track of your bills and try and stick it to the other parents had your butts kicked.

Stuff like this has probably been going on for years.

The liability with these trips is huge. This is one of the reasons why you are now entering information into the cloud owned by the school system. This is one of the reasons you are not allowed to write checks for public funds any more. THIS IS WHY PARENTS NEED TO REFUSE TO WRITE CHECKS TO A BOOSTER CLUB FOR TRIPS (or class fees). IMMEDIATELY. These types of records are now available via FOIA (I finally got that straight), but the financial issues and liability for the money are with the Boosters. The school system might not be allowed to help and might not help with paying people back if Boosters screw up or the money disappears. They delegated their work to volunteers, so they should retain the liability. But, the money is not in their bank account. This is a mess. You have public records in garages and attics and basements all over Fairfax County right now. THEY SHOULD BE IN A SCHOOL COMPUTER SYSTEM.

Remember the MOU? That was nothing more than a gussied up attempt to transfer the liability from the school system to the Boosters. Remember the part about how the school system expected any "lost" funds to be returned? That meant that the officers were going to have to figure out a solution if something major or minor happened. I read through that thing in front of the Deputy and that was the first thing I pointed out. It took me all of ten seconds to see through that. The school system is supposed to retain the responsibility for anything they delegate to a volunteer. They were trying to walk away from that with a signed agreement. Remember the insurance issues I brought up earlier? This was going to be an agreement with a SCHOOL SYSTEM to manage GOVERNMENT FUNDS. Many of you could have been totally screwed if anything happened. I fought, kicked, and screamed for you on that issue, also. I was the one who pulled up the insurance policies, etc. You were also being told to plan on purchasing insurance for that money, but we already pay to insure that money via our taxes. It just has to be in the right bank account. They were trying to use you. They love you guys but that is some kind of love.

This is also why you do NOT want to try to circumvent the safety net of having public funds go straight into a school account by Boosters collecting the money from parents, putting it in their bank account, and then writing one large check to the school for a school-sponsored activity, be it a marching band camp, pre-season, a trip, a class fee. I think I might be seeing some of that. While that money is sitting in a Booster account, it is at risk and the officers are at risk. And the parents are at risk.

You hand the liability and the responsibility over to the school system immediately. You pull those records, you do the math, you ask a LOT of questions and you DEMAND answers. And you don't shut up until you get them.

More reports are coming....
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Herndon Band.

The opening pages of the handbook talk about this being a book put together by the parents. They declare that preseason is required and mandatory. It technically is NOT.
All fundraisers are optional, and that includes TAG Day and Showcase. Technically.

I know what the deal is with all this. I am just putting out what I was told and the school regulations and what the letter from Dr. Garza said.
They are also making proclamations that look like things that should be coming from the teacher. Parents don't set policy.

Course description-

Multiple references to mandatory fundraising, with a possible implication that non-participation will affect the grade. There is a signed agreement about mandatory fundraising. Can't do that.

Uniforms are not provided by the parents. The uniforms are provided by the school system. The School Board owns the uniforms.

The payment template is used. A uniform reserve amount is specified. Smart move there.

THE COURSE DESCRIPTION SAYS THAT PRIVATE LESSONS ARE REQUIRED. You can't require private lessons. I might have missed that in earlier posts. I will keep an eye out for that in future ones.

Billing-The problem here is that after using the FCPS template, the Band parents are having the pre-season money run through the parent organization. This is an FCPS- sponsored activity and any money associated with an FCPS-sponsored activity is public funds and supposed to run directly into and through school accounts. Is this letterhead or not? Booster bills can't be on letterhead. FCPS bills can't be on Booster forms.

If the pre-season money is running through Booster accounts, who is contracting for goods and services? Boosters are not allowed to sign contracts to commit public funds. Are the background checks on employees being done (these are required by the school system)? Who is contracting with personnel? How is the pay determined? As I pointed out, DO NOT write checks to a Booster club and have them turn in a lump sum check to the school system. Payments for school-sponsored services should go straight into school accounts. The payment records are also supposed to be in Charms/FCPS.
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The money is going to the parents. That needs to stop. FCPS course fees are to be labeled as such, and paid to the school system.

Remember all fundraising is optional. )It doesn't mention this in the information I was presented with. It also doesn't indicate that it was required.)
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There is a purple and black logo on a registration page that asks for student ID numbers. I don't know whose form this is. Volunteers are not authorized access to student ID numbers. Who is messing with these ID numbers?

Fees are maxed out. No indication that any excess will be returned to families. No separate breakdown of pre-season or indication that it is technically optional. No indication of a specific amount set aside for uniform rental.

Fees are presented on a form with the purple and black logo but also with the FCPS logo this time, which definitely makes it letterhead.

You were paid a house call last year about your ticketing. All curricular concerts are free. Tiny Tots is a fundraiser and it was during the school day last year. That conflicts with school policy. Is Tiny Tots also curricular? Then you can't charge admission. Where is the money going for Tiny Tots? Any performance that uses students and has admission is supposed to use serially numbered tickets and the money is to go into a school account, NOT to a non-profit.

Is your Holiday Spectacular curricular or a fundraiser? Is this your winter concert with a fancy name on it? Same things as discussed under Tiny Tots.

As I have told every other group, remember that fundraisers are optional. Last year TAG Day ran through the school system. It needs to. Students are used. There is a new statement in the 5810.
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This is why the issue of fees for concerts came up. Check out the $72,000 this non-profit Booster group made off of student performances one year. Yes-that is $72,000.

This Booster group is unique in that they do a joint tax return with all departments. Check out the $900,000 gross receipts. I had an interesting time finding out how to insure that kind of money with a Booster insurance company.
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Either of these look familiar? These are a few pages of two officer liability policies. Pull out your policies. READ THEM.

I am sure your lawyers will love to argue about some of the terminology.
My theory is, if the school system is letting you collect funds that you are not entitled to (and you aren't-only the school system can determine and assess a fee for a class) for their classes, they know you are doing this, and under the guise of "we are going to figure out the fee thing eventually so we will let the parents charge for our classes just a little bit longer and hope some parent doesn't wisen up and get too pissed" you are on very shaky ground in more ways than one. And the trips are just a potential liability nightmare. They are basically handing you government money when they order the parents to write the checks to you. You have a verbal agreement. AIM could clearly care less.

And if the MOU had gone through..........

Boosters are not legally entitled to send bills to families for money because somebody signed their child up for a class. That is Virginia law. That's a whole 'nother problem. With both companies. Obtaining money from people by sending a bill without the legal right to do so....... Any requests for money from a Booster group need to be stipulated as optional and voluntary. Nobody has to pay you anything. Parents, you don't have to pay any of these bills sent out by Booster groups unless it is for something you bought like clothing or shoes.

It's just not worth it. Get the government money where it belongs and wash your hands of this. Immediately.
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No mention of where payments are going.
I think everybody at this school needs to figure out what is curricular and what is not curricular, what is fundraiser and what isn't.
Remember, all fundraisers are optional.
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Who all has access to student ID numbers?
No ID numbers to volunteers.

Tag Day-marked as expected. I hate that term. But, it does not have a star. Tag Day is technically optional.

The usual issues about Tiny Tots, Holiday Spectacular-what is curricular, what is fundraiser, is Tiny Tots during the school day (can't do that). Can't charge for curricular concerts.
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The bills for fees are presented on Booster forms. There is a marching fee that is marked to be paid to the parent group. Any payments to the parent group have to be optional. This doesn't look optional at all.

No mention of where the other fees are to be paid. They are presented on a Booster form.

FCPS fees, if that is what these are, are supposed to be presented on FCPS letterhead only.

What is going on with pre-season? It is supposed to be optional and have a separate FCPS fee paid to the school.

More Tiny Tots concerts during the school day. No fundraisers during the school day. You can't charge for curricular concerts.

I am reminding everybody that fundraisers are optional.

I will let Gatehouse figure this out.
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I know somebody who asked for the tax return from these people last year and HE NEVER GOT IT. We could not find them with the IRS. We could not find them with Parent Booster USA. They are listed with Parent Booster USA under a group letter this year. I have been waiting the 12 days to see the tax return and organizational documents on this group. Why is this so difficult? Twelve days is the limit. Let's go! This is basic stuff.

Fundraising is optional. The syllabus shows it tied to their Varsity letter, which is not academic, but fundraising is optional. Why should somebody be penalized for that?

The $500+ school trip is being run through the Boosters. Parents, don't do it. Demand that your money be put into a school account. Right now.
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Wow. This is interesting. How did that get in there? Whose idea was this? This is unethical. Outrageous. Sets a bad example. Terrible life lesson.
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Dear Karl-
Ask the Comptroller. Ask the IRS. Call up Parent Booster USA. PB USA stipulates that you have to have a statement to that effect in your organizational documents to get under their group letter.

You want money just for yourself? GET A JOB.

I stayed out of the IFA discussions. Even I wasn't going there.

oh, and AIM also does not want to hear about disputes about your fees, officers. That is right in the exclusions. Neither company wants to hear about Boosters who knowingly and intentionally ignore school regulations and state and Federal laws, either.

This is a company owned by an attorney who specializes in non-profit. She started this company after getting involved in Booster clubs with her kids.

I stayed out of this snake pit.
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Good morning!
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Maybe the Comptroller and legal didn't want outside groups playing this game with their parents, and handing them money resulting from this to pay for school-sponsored trips. They were having to keep careful records on this in their spreadsheets. See the trip spreadsheet up there with all the notations about student accounts?

Maybe it was because there was a teacher who took their kids on school trips and participated in IFA's to pay for their expenses that they incurred by taking them along. Seriously, that happened. No names on that one......

:--).
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Annandale Orchestra- you also can't have in your syllabus that parents need to volunteer for at least one event per year and sign a contract for that for the class.

Look, I know you need volunteers. Parents, HELP OUT. But, you can't have mandatory volunteering. Everybody can do something. I sewed a costume. It was 60 hours of work, but I was able to do it at home. People run fundraisers from home (scrip, etc.). You don't have to go on a trip. You get into football games for free if you help out with marching band that night and the work is minimal. You are there anyway. I did a lot of volunteering until I got tired of being yelled at for asking the wrong questions.....

Now I voluntarily screen public records.

Here is more information to discuss about why the information and money are moving into school systems and accounts. All you legal people can argue all you want. I am just putting this out here. I personally delivered this information to the Deputy and the School Board at various points, particularly when the MOU was all the rage.

1. Government Data Collection and Dissemination Practices Act. If the school system had gone ahead with the formal contract/MOU, this Act would have applied to Boosters and their computer systems. Registering all computers used, specification of certain systems, maintaining access records, proceeding for injuction or mandamus and the applicable fines all make for easy reading but not so easy compliance. I think you can all see the problems here.

2. P1530-Volunteers do not have primary responsibility for the assistance they provide. The school personnel cannot delegate away their responsibilities and wash their hands of the accountability. I don't know how many times I pointed this out to them. Maybe 50 or 60?

3. P5710-Volunteers are covered under school policies and self-insurance for the assistance they provide to the school personnel.

Now as for the public funds and personal information associated with it floating around Booster bank accounts and Booster computers RIGHT NOW on a handshake agreement, good luck. The school system is putting their professional licenses on the line continuing to allow this to go on. Who assumes the liability if things go wrong with money and things in Booster accounts and records? Many things already went very wrong, and they tried to run away and hide. They left or tried to leave a lot of families in the lurch. If you have any problems with the Boosters handling the money or your personal information I seriously doubt the school system is going to step right in and help out the families, in spite of the fact they delegated this work to you. Their record stinks. Make them do their work and assume the liability. NOW. And then pull records and tear them apart line by line. Send them out to all the families. Between all of you, there are enough eyes to check the details. You are volunteers. You don't have to put your homes on the line for this kind of work.
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I am not picking on Chantilly. They just happen to have one of the highest gross receipts numbers in the whole lot, because they process all three programs through one account.

Gross receipts are about $900,000 on this form 990. The insurance bill is listed as $634. The companies I checked with recommended insuring every single dollar, and the rates they quoted (if they even covered this much) were no where near $634 a year (that $634 probably also includes officer liability).

So, you folks can talk it over at your next meetings. How much insurance do your groups carry? Ask. How much would you like to have? And yes, it can all disappear, and it has.
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This happened to the crew teams in this area.
She had a nervous breakdown over this and I guess we are supposed to feel sorry for her.
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I will add that I pulled the Government Data Collection laws right off the FCPS website under "P" for privacy......................... :<).

senza sord Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This happened to the crew teams in this area.
> She had a nervous breakdown over this and I guess
> we are supposed to feel sorry for her.


http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Sonya-Swansbrough-Bethany-Speed-Accused-of-Embezzling-Money-231502931.html

^^^^^Yeh another winner. Here's the deal-
If you write a check to the school system for an $800 trip and somebody cleans out the bank account, you will have absolutely minimal trouble getting this fixed, compared to dealing with Denise Booster President. Yeh, it will come out of publicly funded insurance or self-insurance. You try dealing with a nasty bitch of a president. I don't care how it gets fixed as long as I get my money applied towards my kid's trip to Orlando.

I can top that one.
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The word from DCCO was that I was given the "wrong information" and the May of 2014 packet that I found on the website is the accurate information. Oh really. What's going on, Centreville? Parents, is that the way it went?

Regardless, parents, you are owed some money. Booster clubs do not have the authority to demand money from parents. Westfield, Madison, and Langley (more on that later) already tried that. That was made very clear in the FAQ's. So, you are owed at least $160 per child and an explanation. You can try dealing with Joe or Susie Booster President or whoever. If that doesn't work, try your principal. I worked through the Comptroller and the Deputy to fight for the above three schools. You also have the right to have this addressed with the School Board auditor, who investigates outside groups that are doing things to families that they aren't supposed to do. It is already there.

If it was used to pay for pre-season, according to the FAQ's that money is supposed to run through the school accounts. That is a school-sponsored optional activity. Any staff who work that camp are supposed to undergo background checks with the school system. Their work hours are recorded, and they are paid according to their contract with the school system. You also have the right to have that camp priced out at actual cost terms. You have the right to see all accounting data and receipts and contracts, as well as redacted student payment spreadsheets.

If this is the game where you give money to the Booster club, write it off as a donation, but it is actually going for services received, you can't do that. I know Lois is out of a job now, but somebody else has taken over and probably nothing has changed.

More senza sord Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The word from DCCO was that I was given the "wrong
> information" and the May of 2014 packet that I
> found on the website is the accurate information.
> Oh really. What's going on, Centreville? Parents,
> is that the way it went?
>
> Regardless, parents, you are owed some money.
> Booster clubs do not have the authority to demand
> money from parents. Westfield, Madison, and
> Langley (more on that later) already tried that.
> That was made very clear in the FAQ's. So, you are
> owed at least $160 per child and an explanation.
> You can try dealing with Joe or Susie Booster
> President or whoever. If that doesn't work, try
> your principal. I worked through the Comptroller
> and the Deputy to fight for the above three
> schools. You also have the right to have this
> addressed with the School Board auditor, who
> investigates outside groups that are doing things
> to families that they aren't supposed to do. It is
> already there.
>
> If it was used to pay for pre-season, according to
> the FAQ's that money is supposed to run through
> the school accounts. That is a school-sponsored
> optional activity. Any staff who work that camp
> are supposed to undergo background checks with the
> school system. Their work hours are recorded, and
> they are paid according to their contract with the
> school system. You also have the right to have
> that camp priced out at actual cost terms. You
> have the right to see all accounting data and
> receipts and contracts, as well as redacted
> student payment spreadsheets.
>
> If this is the game where you give money to the
> Booster club, write it off as a donation, but it
> is actually going for services received, you can't
> do that. I know Lois is out of a job now, but
> somebody else has taken over and probably nothing
> has changed.

This was Centreville Band.

And to wrap up Centreville Band, the amount paid to the Boosters looks like what should be your consumables fee, which is capped at $150 or actual cost, whichever is less, and is supposed to be run through a school account.

Here are a few examples of why public funds need to go into a public bank account, have public records available, strong insurance coverage, etc. It is heartbreaking to see what can happen and what it does to the community and the families.
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Here they are all together, the FCPS music teachers, during teacher work-week in August, about to start their 1/2 day in-service, a portion of which will serve as their training on new financial policies for the groups they teach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPCdkVjbFP8

You're submitting a story about a finance technician who embezzled money (and was caught, arrested, and dismissed) in support for your claims that FCPS music boosters are mismanaging funds?

How are these two things related?

(The finance tech got what she deserved, by the way.)

Should FCPS teachers not sing the national anthem? Did you not like the rendition? What's your complaint? That 1.5 minutes of a workday should't be used to sing the anthem?

without mute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here they are all together, the FCPS music
> teachers, during teacher work-week in August,
> about to start their 1/2 day in-service, a portion
> of which will serve as their training on new
> financial policies for the groups they teach:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPCdkVjbFP8



This absolutely makes my day. It is a pleasure to hear the National Anthem sung the way it is supposed to be sung. Loved the sopranos at the end. Yes, ladies. You can do it. This is an example of why music education is so important.

I am glad you got some training on the new financial policies. It appears some people might have missed the meeting or fell asleep. I am sure this will all work out eventually.

Not relevant to your argument. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're submitting a story about a finance
> technician who embezzled money (and was caught,
> arrested, and dismissed) in support for your
> claims that FCPS music boosters are mismanaging
> funds?
>
> How are these two things related?
>
> (The finance tech got what she deserved, by the
> way.)

I am pointing out the importance of public accounts being used to handle public funds. Because anybody can get the public records fairly easily. Not so with nonprofits. Been there, done that. The school system also has tons of money to cover a situation like this. Were there any parents who took a loss on money given to TJ for their child's activities? I doubt it. Did anybody call them up and tell them that their child's $600 in trip payments were stolen and would not be replaced? I doubt it.

The crew officers apparently tried to keep their mess quiet. Right. Somebody put out minutes on the Internet. I would love to know what the Hell the other officers were doing the whole time this was going on. Wasn't anybody reviewing bank statements and things? Some of the non-profit insurance policies are worthless if they don't. If a trip to the bank showed what happened, a trip to the file cabinet or computer should have shown the same information.

Shame on the TJ public employee letting the students down. Despicable. Lower than low. Stealing from children.

I'd encourage you to watch this before each post you make. These are people trying to bring music into the lives of the children of Fairfax Country as a meaningful component of their education. As is with all of education, resources are inadequate to the task at hand.

Perhaps we could replace them with CPAs who were members of their respective collegiate marching bands?

without mute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd encourage you to watch this before each post
> you make. These are people trying to bring music
> into the lives of the children of Fairfax Country
> as a meaningful component of their education. As
> is with all of education, resources are inadequate
> to the task at hand.
>
> Perhaps we could replace them with CPAs who were
> members of their respective collegiate marching
> bands?

You can save the sarcastic remarks. You are all being told exactly what to do. People are just resistant to change and/or want anything they can get and don't care how they get it.

No, I meant the suggestion. It was not a sarcastic suggestion. I think you'd be happier if they were better versed in legalese than they are music.

Annandale Band.

You used the template. Good.
Glad to see that you have the uniform reserve fund amount in there. It seems awfully low.
Saw the uniform replacement charges. Those should go to the school, NOT the parent group.
Pre-season and away retreat is technically optional. I know they are lost without it. If there are charges for the home retreat they should be separate from the away retreat.
The parent handbook seems to have a lot of information I am used to seeing coming from staff, but it is nicely laid out. Instructions to students should come from staff, for example. Parents don't have the right to tell students what to do. They are volunteers.

Gift cards- The IFA's have been eliminated. Supposedly. So, could somebody please explain to me why handing out gift cards (which are cash) to only the people who participate in the fundraisers is not a private benefit? The grand prize is a $200 gift card. I am seeing several versions of this at multiple schools. I don't follow the logic.

All fundraisers, including Citrus and Poinsettia sales, are optional. Any fundraisers that use the students are supposed to have the money in a school account (R5810). That would include TAG Day.
Attachments:

without mute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, I meant the suggestion. It was not a sarcastic
> suggestion. I think you'd be happier if they were
> better versed in legalese than they are music.


I have no sympathy. Really. You work for the school system and part of your job is doing what you are told and that includes finances. Figure it out or ask questions. You can't leave the financial aspects of your class up to a non-profit that is separate from the school system. They don't have any right to do anything.

Dear Annandale Band Director -

Welcome to Fairfax County! Being new to the area this year, we hope that you will quickly adapt to our way of doing things. Although our expectations are not always consistent with how things are handled in the majority of school districts across the nation, we are on the right side of things in respect to legality.

If you need help with anything, don't hesitate to reach out and consult the regulations.

Excited to have you here,

BB

without mute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Annandale Band Director -
>
> Welcome to Fairfax County! Being new to the area
> this year, we hope that you will quickly adapt to
> our way of doing things. Although our expectations
> are not always consistent with how things are
> handled in the majority of school districts across
> the nation, we are on the right side of things in
> respect to legality.
>
> If you need help with anything, don't hesitate to
> reach out and consult the regulations.
>
> Excited to have you here,
>
> BB


Did your parents teach you that just because everybody else is breaking the law it is OK if you do, too?

It isn't. So, wake up. Set an example.

Annandale Chorus.

FCPS course fees should be going directly to the school. Eventually. Hopefully. Maybe.

Any money collected for replacing lost uniforms should go to the school.
Attachments:

senza sord sfz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> without mute Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Dear Annandale Band Director -
> >
> > Welcome to Fairfax County! Being new to the
> area
> > this year, we hope that you will quickly adapt
> to
> > our way of doing things. Although our
> expectations
> > are not always consistent with how things are
> > handled in the majority of school districts
> across
> > the nation, we are on the right side of things
> in
> > respect to legality.
> >
> > If you need help with anything, don't hesitate
> to
> > reach out and consult the regulations.
> >
> > Excited to have you here,
> >
> > BB
>
>
> Did your parents teach you that just because
> everybody else is breaking the law it is OK if you
> do, too?
>
> It isn't. So, wake up. Set an example.

No, they did not. But they did teach me reason, of which I've found almost none of in anonymous internet message boards.

West Potomac Chorus.

Fee should go to school. I can't tell if it is going to parents or to the school. It says both on different pages. It looks like both are turned in. The fee form has references to releasing FARM status. Parents are not authorized the information according to my most recent phone call to Richmond.

No IFA's.
Attachments:

BTW, I went to a public information conference this weekend. They were very amused at the idea of public funds and public records being handled in the manner in which they have all these years in this school system. Wanted to hear lots and lots about it.

So, I told them all about it.

> >
> > Did your parents teach you that just because
> > everybody else is breaking the law it is OK if
> you
> > do, too?
> >
> > It isn't. So, wake up. Set an example.
>
> No, they did not. But they did teach me reason, of
> which I've found almost none of in anonymous
> internet message boards.


I think there is a lot of reason in a volunteer screening public information and posting it for the citizens to see. It doesn't matter if it is an anonymous forum or not. It gets the job done.

What I don't see reason in is staff who don't understand their responsibilities under the Virginia public records act, staff who don't understand that it is a requirement of their license to follow all school regulations and applicable state and Federal laws (don't they teach any of this stuff in school to you people?), staff and parents who make fun of and bully a parent around who is asserting their rights under Virginia law, staff and parents who ignore regulations and state/Federal laws in a sad, sick attempt to extort money out of parents who don't know their rights.

Clean it up. NOW.

> (don't they
> teach any of this stuff in school to you people?)

You, BB, are a cunt. There is nothing that 4 years of college can do to prepare someone for the multitude of crazy that is a career in the public school system.

McLean Band.

Last year was pathetic. They told everybody that the Marching Fee was $100, and all the other information was buried in Charms "members only". They said everything else was optional. I had the information pulled.

So then they turned around and sent everybody a bill for $150, plus a bill for an additional $350. All due mid-June. Did not see ONE WORD about optional on the bill.

Somehow this survived an investigation by the Comptroller that I requested. They were #4 of the Final Four. What a bunch of crap.

This year is even more fun.

The parents signed the MOA. Great. Feel the power!

They REMOVED the line in the template about returning excess fees to the families!!!!!!!! They are telling everybody excess fees will be transferred over into a uniform reserve fund. That was all very clearly stated as inappropriate in the FAQ's. This is inappropriate template modification that conflicts with school policy. They did not include a specified amount regarding a uniform reserve fund. This was in not just one but TWO different sections.

WHO TOOK IT UPON THEMSELVES TO MODIFY THE FCPS TEMPLATE?????????????????????

The Marching Fee is $350, which exceeds the $300 limit. It does include pre-season, but pre-season is supposed to technically be optional and priced out separately.

There are some additional travel fees for Marching Band.

Jazz Band fee is set at $75. It is also described as an FCPS sponsored optional activity. They say it's not enough money so fundraising will be applied. It is listed as a one credit CLASS in the course catalog on the MHS website. So, the appropriate maximum fee is $50.


Fundraising in public school is optional. That means TAG day, Raffle day, etc. So there isn't any conflict as stated in the "sports policy". Fundraisers should not interfere with practices and games/matches and THEY take precedence because fundraising is optional. KIDS-GO TO YOUR PRACTICES AND GAMES/MATCHES.

Any fundraising utilizing students is supposed to have the money go into a school account. Students are not to sell raffle tickets on school grounds (I don't know anything about your Raffle Day).

You can explain it all to Gatehouse.
Attachments:

I could tell from the FAQ's this wasn't sinking in. I was right. So, here they are again.
Attachments:

(don't they
> teach any of this stuff in school to you people?)


They don't. THEY DON'T! Teachers are left to figure this stuff out by word of mouth. Most jump in focused on - oh I don't know - teaching students, content, and student management. There is no course or inservice or anything that remotely addresses any of this stuff to get licensed or hired. Mentors do not bring it up. Finance folks do not bring it up. Admins do not bring it up unless you've screwed something up.

T7Ymj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (don't they
> > teach any of this stuff in school to you
> people?)
>
>
> They don't. THEY DON'T! Teachers are left to
> figure this stuff out by word of mouth. Most jump
> in focused on - oh I don't know - teaching
> students, content, and student management. There
> is no course or inservice or anything that
> remotely addresses any of this stuff to get
> licensed or hired. Mentors do not bring it up.
> Finance folks do not bring it up. Admins do not
> bring it up unless you've screwed something up.


I find this very interesting. Because just about every teacher outside of Fairfax and outside of the music community seems to know this-

Fees are set by the school system.
Fundraising is optional.
Classes are the responsibility of the school system.
Volunteers don't control classes.
If you are not entitled to money you can't keep it and/or try to obtain it.

This is common sense.

Look I know you have your hands full. I had kids in public school for 25 years. I have family in the education business. They know all this, too. And I agree that they should be monitoring things more closely and trying to help guide you through this. Look how much money I am saving the school system doing all this on a volunteer basis.

And just about every person I know of who works for the government understands that public records are exactly that. And to bully somebody around and yell at them and make fun of them for wanting to see them could very well be a FOIA violation in the future. They are considering a new addition to the law. I volunteered to be interviewed for that. And I will name names. Peers and staff.

Another 18 schools to go......

> I find this very interesting. Because just about
> every teacher outside of Fairfax and outside of
> the music community seems to know this-

Bullshit. Name names.

without mute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I find this very interesting. Because just
> about
> > every teacher outside of Fairfax and outside of
> > the music community seems to know this-
>
> Bullshit. Name names.


How about a retired Super? They think you people are nuts. Talked with them last night and they think you people are CRAZY doing a cloud with volunteers managing your information. McLean couldn't even fill in a template properly and that was after they asked the bulk of the FAQ's and probably had you up into the wee hours with that lawyer of theirs. They even challenged the requirement to use FCPS letterhead for the bills. So, they just changed the template! I think my favorite FAQ was Robinson asking why they couldn't sign the checks. They actually wanted signatory privileges on a school bank account? I am a big believer in that there is never a stupid question, but some of these were a riot. I loved the FAQ's.

From the very complimentary four letter word and the above comment, could you possibly be the principal who made fun of me in front of a room full of about 60 abusive parents who were totally hot on taking away my rights as a citizen and were using a lawyer who was a friend of your teacher to try to bully me into that, then turned around and gave these people a trip to process (knowing full well they had a pathological secrecy problem), after I was promised that their public money privileges had been revoked, then was ordered by your Super to go to a Booster meeting and beg for your public records so that you could provide them to me after my FOIA request on said trip, then must have walked out empty handed since I then got a frantic phone call from your sweating Super begging for more time? I came very close to turning that lawyer in to the State Bar for a Board of Inquiry. Threatening a parent and trying to block their access to public records and refusing to show a parent other records pertaining to the usage of their money that they gave this group to provide for a minor child. That would have been really interesting. After I got the PUBLIC RECORDS about four months later this lawyer tried to tell me I couldn't show the PUBLIC RECORDS to anybody or I would have to endure the wrath and power of the Boosters. More fun with the Bar.

Going out to dinner tonight using the p card?


Aah, the memories. More reports coming.

Now we are going over to Woodson Chorus. July of 2013 I asked to see the student payment spreadsheet for a school-sponsored trip they took in APRIL, with the money handled by the Choral Boosters. This is what I got. In JULY. Look at all the people who look to be owed as much as $800. In JULY. Look at all the people who still supposedly owed. In JULY. I notified the Comptroller, a trip accountability sheet was done, and over $4000 in refund checks were written at some point. This trip won the award for the most messed-up trip that year. I was told that I might not have gotten the most accurate information. WHY NOT? When WERE these people paid back? When I asked to see a student payment spreadsheet, IN JULY, it should have been the most current and accurate one. That is what FOIA is all about.

Congratulations. Even Dr. Garza heard about this one. If any of you got a big fat check over that summer, you are welcome.

The packet for this year shows TAG Day as mandatory. It is optional.
The choir fee is going to the Boosters. It should go to the school and be labeled as an FCPS fee.
The uniform rental money is going to the Boosters. It should go to the school, as should any payments for lost or damaged uniforms (they belong to the School Board).
They are using a Choral Boosters health form instead of an FCPS health form. All your trips are school-sponsored. They should be using school forms. Where does this form go after you turn it in? The Choral director can delegate at least some of their work to the volunteers and the school system then assumes the responsibility and liability.

PARENTS IN ALL PROGRAMS-DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, TURN IN ANY MONEY TO A BOOSTER GROUP FOR A SCHOOL TRIP. Insist that it be handled by the school system. I don't care if it is Band, Orchestra, Chorus, or Guitar. Enough is enough.
Attachments:

And as far as trips, I saw a lot of Booster bailouts. As in, people underestimated the cost of the trip, and the Boosters took hard-earned fundraising money to bail somebody out who can't keep a handle on trip costs.

Tell people up front, in writing, that the cost of the trip is only an estimate and they will be responsible for any increased price. Pad the price of the trip. You can always offer a refund. Keep an eye on expenses. If things are costing more, up the final payment. If the final cost exceeds the original price, send everybody a bill for $25 or whatever it is. Tell them they can't purchase Prom tickets until they pay up.

These trips are optional. They should be a self-supported luxury.

And then take what you would have used to bail somebody out who can't get the price right and buy some instruments or something. Much easier than selling another 1000 apple pies. Don't be suckers. You are being used.

TJ Band is playing some interesting games. The unusual thing about TJ is that Marching Band is NOT curricular. It is optional school-sponsored "extracurricular". But, they receive the $20,500 of appropriated funds like the "curricular" groups do. It is not in the course catalog.

Last year they sent out bills for "donations" for their summer Orkney trip. This was your typical school-sponsored trip. I asked about this, insisted this be clarified, and a letter was sent out informing the parents that this was not a "donation" but rather a payment for a school trip. Orkney is running through the school system this year with a PAYMENT.

I was informed by DCCO that there wasn't any fee for Bands at TJ this year. Marching Band is "requesting" a $350 "donation" payable to the Boosters that they are "expecting" to receive. I can't tell you how much I hate all those terms. I seriously doubt this is a "donation" that you can deduct on your income tax. And I would bet they are "expecting" it so much that they are asking you for it even if you decide to not "donate" it. They are probably sending out multiple "requests". WITH DUE DATES. It is probably mostly services. You should be sent a statement to that affect. Either that, or call it something different than a donation. Parents, you don't have to give these people ANYTHING for Marching Band under these terms. WHAT A BUNCH OF CRAP.

I notice a curricular Band "supplement" and "fee" on the Booster budget sheet. WHAT "supplement" and "fee"? Hey DCCO? What's going on here?

The Marching Band receives appropriated funds. So, this is a school-sponsored activity. Does the School Board own the uniforms? Probably. So, the kids are using school uniforms and there could/should be a rental fee. Do these people have to follow the fees and the public funds and public records issues if this is a school-sponsored activity and TJ is receiving $20,500 in appropriated funds to run this Band? I can kind of see where they wouldn't have to follow the course fees, but these are public funds and public records to a large extent because this is an activity of the school and parents are turning money in to pay for it. And the fees for it should be at cost. And the fees should go to the school, NOT the Boosters, because this is a school-sponsored activity. Parents, you are bypassing the safety of a school-insured account for a school-sponsored activity playing these games. Your parent group only pays $250 for their insurance and bond. How much coverage is there? This is still an agreement with a Superintendent and a lot of this is public funds. Do you have Officer liability coverage? Read your policies.

Anybody want to take a crack at this? Gatehouse? Care to join in? I KNOW YOU ARE READING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't tell me you're not.

DON'T THE REST OF YOU EVEN DREAM ABOUT TRYING THIS. I will see right through it and hang you up to dry. Don't do this to families.
Attachments:

And school staff and property are not supposed to be used to help Boosters collect money for their accounts. This is in a syllabus, the FCPS stuff is right along with the Booster stuff, and the checks for the Boosters are being mailed to the teacher. Ding ding ding. This is a scam. Smoke and mirrors.

Put these people on the fee schedule and run it through the school. Make it a condition of the school receiving the appropriated funds.

> From the very complimentary four letter word and
> the above comment, could you possibly be the
> principal who made fun of me in front of a room
> full of about 60 abusive parents who were totally
> hot on taking away my rights as a citizen and were
> using a lawyer who was a friend of your teacher to
> try to bully me into that, then turned around and
> gave these people a trip to process (knowing full
> well they had a pathological secrecy problem),
> after I was promised that their public money
> privileges had been revoked, then was ordered by
> your Super to go to a Booster meeting and beg for
> your public records so that you could provide them
> to me after my FOIA request on said trip, then
> must have walked out empty handed since I then got
> a frantic phone call from your sweating Super
> begging for more time? I came very close to
> turning that lawyer in to the State Bar for a
> Board of Inquiry. Threatening a parent and trying
> to block their access to public records and
> refusing to show a parent other records pertaining
> to the usage of their money that they gave this
> group to provide for a minor child. That would
> have been really interesting. After I got the
> PUBLIC RECORDS about four months later this lawyer
> tried to tell me I couldn't show the PUBLIC
> RECORDS to anybody or I would have to endure the
> wrath and power of the Boosters. More fun with the
> Bar.
>
> Going out to dinner tonight using the p card?
>
>
> Aah, the memories. More reports coming.


No, I couldn't possibly, but I have heard the story. The four letter compliment was in regard to the way you talk about music teachers ("you people") as if 1, they are some lower class of person, and 2, as if they hold an annual meeting each August to bring everyone up to speed on how to do horrible things for the children in their programs.

^^^I love music and have been a musician for 50 years. I think you are a very sick person, I think it is sad that teachers and principals think that when someone expects them to follow the state laws and school regulations that apply to their classes they wail and gnash their teeth like it is just too much to ask and think it is appropriate to make fun of and yell at that person.

How would you like it if when you went in for medical care the doctors and staff got all upset if you expected them to follow the standards of their professions and the applicable state laws, called you a cunt, a bitch, made fun of you and yelled at you in front of the other patients, etc,?

You sound like a total jerk but don't worry you are far from alone.

> You sound like a total jerk but don't worry you
> are far from alone.

And there it is again even clearer. You actually think that music teachers in FCPS are by nature bad people.

without mute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > You sound like a total jerk but don't worry you
> > are far from alone.
>
> And there it is again even clearer. You actually
> think that music teachers in FCPS are by nature
> bad people.


I didn't say that. In the depths of your mental disorder you assumed that. Be sure to take your meds. You are dealing with vulnerable children and families.

> I didn't say that. In the depths of your mental
> disorder you assumed that. Be sure to take your
> meds. You are dealing with vulnerable children and
> families.

No, you haven't said it outright. But you've dedicated a substantial portion of the last few years to implying it.

^^^^^You haven't answered the question about how you would feel if you went in for medical care, the doctors and staff weren't following the standards of care for their professions, you asked them to wash their hands/answer your questions/whatever, they thought you were out to get them and called you a cunt/bitch whatever and yelled at you in the office waiting room in front of all the other patients and made fun of you. And the answer is......

Be sure to take your meda. I think you need some counseling.

Staccato Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^^^^^You haven't answered the question about how
> you would feel if you went in for medical care,
> the doctors and staff weren't following the
> standards of care for their professions, you asked
> them to wash their hands/answer your
> questions/whatever, they thought you were out to
> get them and called you a cunt/bitch whatever and
> yelled at you in the office waiting room in front
> of all the other patients and made fun of you. And
> the answer is......
>
> Be sure to take your meda. I think you need some
> counseling.


Oh and let's add in there that the physician called you four years later, said they were "moving forward", please come back, and they were still acting like this.
Only the rates were double. And you found out after the appointment that they said they took your insurance, but they didn't really, and they want you to pay before you leave the office.

Take your meds.

I won't answer it because it is a horrible analogy.

without mute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I won't answer it because it is a horrible
> analogy.


I think it is a superb analogy. Take your meds.

We had lots of fun at Langley, also. They kept adding dues in on the same page as the FCPS fees and had due dates for the dues, just added them in automatically, tried to tell me they were optional, but could not show me anything saying that, etc. etc. More arguments with Gatehouse. More foot stomping.

Here is an old letter straightening out the mess. Thank you.

Congratulations, Langley Band parents, on NOT signing the MOA. That is a very wise move. Nothing personal, but the MOA is fraught with problems that nobody wanted to listen to. Get out of the school accounting business. Pull your records frequently and go over every single line. Ask questions. Demand answers. It will be fine.

Don't know if you can make SmartMusic mandatory or not and how it calculates out with the consumables.

If you are going to leave it up to optional dues and donations to fund certain things that the families can well afford to pay for, oh well. I would just dump it on the families. One less thing to deal with.
Saw the $7000 set aside for uniform replacement. Good but seems low.
Your fees seem low considering the demographics of your school and the aspirations that usually accompany that.

TAG day and all fundraisers are optional.
Attachments:

what prompted all this? did something happen?

> Your fees seem low considering the demographics of
> your school and the aspirations that usually
> accompany that.

Now she's offering advice as if some sort of consultant.

A440 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> without mute Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I won't answer it because it is a horrible
> > analogy.
>
>
> I think it is a superb analogy. Take your meds.


I don't doubt that you do. You've made it abundantly clear that there is no deviation from your version of reality.

clarity Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what prompted all this? did something happen?

The OP is basically a vigilante. Like most "Justice Seekers", she is convinced that she doing the right thing and is trying to do what is best for people. Unfortnately, this quest for righteousness is narrow minded and has consequences that affect many, many people in myriad ways that she will undoubtedly refuse to acknowledge and/or find real solutions for.

Did I miss anything?

Unfortunately, not really Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> clarity Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what prompted all this? did something happen?
>
> The OP is basically a vigilante. Like most
> "Justice Seekers", she is convinced that she doing
> the right thing and is trying to do what is best
> for people. Unfortnately, this quest for
> righteousness is narrow minded and has
> consequences that affect many, many people in
> myriad ways that she will undoubtedly refuse to
> acknowledge and/or find real solutions for.
>
> Did I miss anything?

She's never been able to get over an altercation at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years and years and years ago.

more specifically Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately, not really Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > clarity Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > what prompted all this? did something
> happen?
> >
> > The OP is basically a vigilante. Like most
> > "Justice Seekers", she is convinced that she
> doing
> > the right thing and is trying to do what is
> best
> > for people. Unfortnately, this quest for
> > righteousness is narrow minded and has
> > consequences that affect many, many people in
> > myriad ways that she will undoubtedly refuse to
> > acknowledge and/or find real solutions for.
> >
> > Did I miss anything?
>
> She's never been able to get over an altercation
> at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years and
> years and years ago.



I was there. A complete bunch of crooks. Somebody should have shut them down a long, long time ago.

A witness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> more specifically Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Unfortunately, not really Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > clarity Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > what prompted all this? did something
> > happen?
> > >
> > > The OP is basically a vigilante. Like most
> > > "Justice Seekers", she is convinced that she
> > doing
> > > the right thing and is trying to do what is
> > best
> > > for people. Unfortnately, this quest for
> > > righteousness is narrow minded and has
> > > consequences that affect many, many people in
> > > myriad ways that she will undoubtedly refuse
> to
> > > acknowledge and/or find real solutions for.
> > >
> > > Did I miss anything?
> >
> > She's never been able to get over an
> altercation
> > at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years and
> > years and years ago.
>
>
>
> I was there. A complete bunch of crooks. Somebody
> should have shut them down a long, long time ago.


So the band parents plotted to steal money from other band parents?

juicy! Wrote:
> > >
> > > She's never been able to get over an
> > altercation
> > > at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years and
> > > years and years ago.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was there. A complete bunch of crooks.
> Somebody
> > should have shut them down a long, long time
> ago.
>
>
> So the band parents plotted to steal money from
> other band parents?


Yes. They cleared thousands of dollars off of some of the trips. Didn't tell the parents. Nothing on the records for the parents. Told them they were breaking even on them. They knew they weren't supposed to do it and kept it really quiet. Banbury ignored the whole thing when it was brought up. Acted like he didn't give a shit at the meeting.
They eventually told the parents about it at the meetings, made no attempt to pay anybody back whatsoever. I think their lawyer was a former student of the teacher and he was a real dick at the meeting. The officers and a bunch of the alums were obnoxious. They did it right in front of the school board lady, too. I would have told them all to fuck off. It all came out eventually but has been brushed under the rug and kept off the radar.

A witness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> juicy! Wrote:
> > > >
> > > > She's never been able to get over an
> > > altercation
> > > > at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years
> and
> > > > years and years ago.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I was there. A complete bunch of crooks.
> > Somebody
> > > should have shut them down a long, long time
> > ago.
> >
> >
> > So the band parents plotted to steal money from
> > other band parents?
>
>
> Yes. They cleared thousands of dollars off of some
> of the trips. Didn't tell the parents. Nothing on
> the records for the parents. Told them they were
> breaking even on them. They knew they weren't
> supposed to do it and kept it really quiet.
> Banbury ignored the whole thing when it was
> brought up. Acted like he didn't give a shit at
> the meeting.
> They eventually told the parents about it at the
> meetings, made no attempt to pay anybody back
> whatsoever. I think their lawyer was a former
> student of the teacher and he was a real dick at
> the meeting. The officers and a bunch of the alums
> were obnoxious. They did it right in front of the
> school board lady, too. I would have told them all
> to fuck off. It all came out eventually but has
> been brushed under the rug and kept off the radar.

So what did they do with the embezzled funds? Nice vacation?

What little i know is that the money went back in the program - no embezzlement. Shouldn't have done it the way they did - stupid - but OP is very careful about not alleging personal gain. As well she should.

But they were trying to embezzle? I'm not sure I understand.

more specifically Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> She's never been able to get over an altercation
> at an Oakton Band Boosters' meeting years and
> years and years ago.

Hell hath no fury like a bean-counter scorned.

juicy! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But they were trying to embezzle? I'm not sure I
> understand.

The story as I heard it was they ignored the regulation saying that excess money collected for trips was to be given back to the families. They kept very quiet about it. When somebody started asking questions they turned abusive to try and cover up what they did and discourage anybody from pursuing what went on with the possibility of recoupment. The teacher linked them up with their lawyer friend, who was happy to help them with the scheme because he liked the teacher.
Grapevine and what little I could pick up at meetings. The band underground says it was > $30k.

You know that tv show American Greed? A smaller but similar story. Only they did it to kids and parents.

Choose your words carefully Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What little i know is that the money went back in
> the program - no embezzlement. Shouldn't have
> done it the way they did - stupid - but OP is very
> careful about not alleging personal gain. As well
> she should.

So they were stealing. How is that better than embezzlement? It's just a different crime.

So the county let the parents handle a county transaction. The parent officers diverted money that was supposed to go back to the parents into the bank account of the non-profit. They then gave at least some of it back to the school system via donated instruments, etc. So, the county received things they weren't entitled to because the source money was inappropriately diverted due to their gross negligence in their supervision of the county transactions. Got it? It is kind of like the government keeping your tax refund because they have great things they want to do with it.

I thought you meant they were actually keeping the money and spending on things for themselves.

The school system also tried to walk away from their responsibilities by saying they didn't have the right to access the trip documents because they were in the hands of the Boosters. The issue of custodianship of public records has now been made very, very clear to them and Boosters. FCPS owned those records the whole time the Boosters had them, they were always required to have them in their records, and never really relinquished their responsibilities to ensure things were properly handled. They just used that as an excuse to dodge their responsibilities. So, whether the money was embezzled or retained inappropriately, the parents were due money back and somebody didn't give it to them. The school system is responsible for anything they delegate to volunteers. They delegated.

That's a problem. For some reason a lot of people didn't grasp this concept. Probably because they were benefitting from this. When it's for YOU, there doesn't seem to be much of problem.

******Would you like your tax refund donated to the government or a non-profit without your permission? Don't think so. NO DIFFERENCE.

This is why the money and records need to be in FCPS accounts and systems. You can't have this stuff all over town and in unregistered computers. And you all need to look at those records and watch everything they do. Which is what FOIA is for. They HAVE to produce the records. Non-profits do not necessarily release detailed records to members even though they also have state laws on transparency for non-profits. They are filled with loopholes that FOIA doesn't have.

And it has taken four years to get this far. And they want MORE time. When they are operating under legal counsel to get the public money and records back where they belong.

oh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought you meant they were actually keeping the
> money and spending on things for themselves.

You don't get it. It doesn't matter that they didn't use the money to buy a sofa for themselves. They were supposed to give it back to families. See the income tax refund analogy. Taking money you are not entitled to is not OK.

She's not anonymous. I can FOIA information about her FOIA requests, or simply dig a little deeper. But let's see if she'll remove the mask herself. Will you post under your real name, senza?

She says she is "a volunteer screening public information and posting it for the citizens to see" but it seems to me you are "a volunteer screening public information and posting ONLY WHAT SUPPORTS YOUR POSITION". So far I've seen many instances of partial pages and select portions of the many documents you request ... where according to your FOIA requests you have the full documents.

What do you think is missing? I can't pull everything on every transaction. What are you looking for? I will see if I have it. I have another 15+ schools to post. I just haven't gotten to it all yet. I don't have a "position" other than they need to do their work and do it properly. This is very straightforward.

If you don't like FOIA and having your taxes pay for it, contact Jim or Linda. I am sure they would be happy to discuss it with you. I don't think it is going to be what you want to hear, though.

For starters, in one of your posts you attached only pages 1 and 7 of the document. Let's have the whole thing, not just your choice pages.

You see, you are on a rant and trying to tell the world how very right your are about something. And, yes FOIA exists and I wholly support it's use ... but I blame you for causing this waste as much much as I blame Sharon Bulova for the waste when she remodeled her office (how much was spent on artwork alone?).

So, I have yet to see where you've saved the county the amount of money you are causing to be spent. Therefore I think it's a fair to publicly question your intent in the same forum in which you are airing your grievances.

So here's what I want to know ... directly:

1- Your name

2- Your affiliation. Who are you and why I should care. (Are you really just a former Oakton band parent trying to right a wrong? There's no way you are just a "concerned citizen" - far too much emotion/resentment in your posts.)

3- Why you choose to use an (theoretically) anonymous internet board to air this. Why not own it ... put up a blog, a webpage, contact a reporter?

If you really care ... and just want everyone in FCPS to follow rules and "do the right thing" ... then why not put a big-ass "John Hancock" on your diatribe and publicly own it?

People who stand up for a cause but duck and hide when someone asks who they are ... aren't really the do-gooders they claim to be. So if you can't do those 3 things, then maybe tell us why you need to hide from the same public scrutiny you eagerly want to generate around your cause celebre.

clear as mud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I thought you meant they were actually keeping
> the
> > money and spending on things for themselves.
>
> You don't get it. It doesn't matter that they
> didn't use the money to buy a sofa for themselves.
> They were supposed to give it back to families.
> See the income tax refund analogy. Taking money
> you are not entitled to is not OK.

Yeah, I definitely didn't get it. You made it sound like personal spending sprees were going on and suddenly teachers were showing up in a beamer instead of the '07 camry.

Actually i believe many people know who she is. Especially the Oakton parents. Oakton did do it wrong with funds from spring trips. It's her allegations of theft and embezzlement that are wrong. Just wrong.

Anyone know how long ago she (is it definitely a woman?) had a kid in band at Oakton? I have some friends that went there and one of them was in the band. Maybe he knows the kid she had in band - hopefully this isn't his mom haha.

She's Barbara W. Brown, parent of a former student at Oakton High. Lives in Oakton. You can go to many pubic data sources to find her address (i.e.: county tax records and payment history are all publicly available on-line via the county web site, persona property tax info is also publicly available, though a tad tougher to access) ...

Yes, she has a vendetta ... she doesn't use that word, but if you read thru a few of her other threads you can see that's what this is. There is one post last year where she says it all would have been over if the Oakton Band Boosters would have just shown her the records she demanded to see ... kind of tells the story of "why" she's doing this, me thinks.

Clearly someone on a mission because she felt disrespected ... and for that they must pay!! And she will lead the charge to right this wrong and root out this evil in our midst. "Wow" ... and she tells other posters to "take their meds". Seriously, lady?

To Barb: Just so you know I have no problem with reasonable investigation ... people should do the right thing, handle data responsibly (or not at all) and put money in the right account at all times. And I certainly believe in transparency - fees are fees and donations are donations. However ... the extremist tone you take, your tactics, and your efforts are not appreciated by this FFX parent.

And the biggest change for FFX parents is what ... we write checks to the school and not the boosters for the big sprng trip. All righty then. Depending on the school you might be better off with the Boosters holding the money and writing one big check to the school to cover the travel invoice from the tour company.

Great use of all this time and energy ... if only some charity could of been the recipient of it ... think of the real difference you could make in someone's life.

I don't care what any of you think.
I think this is a great forum to use to put all this out.
And I think this is some great information to get out to parents. They need to know their rights. Nobody tells them.
The big advantage here is people can say whatever they want and it is free and established. You can do whatever you want with public records and make any comments you want. You have a problem with that? I don't care.
No, you don't want to give the money to the parents and write one big check to the school for a $100,000 trip. The insurance isn't there. What kind of an idiot wants to write a $900 check to a non-profit run by volunteers for a county function? That is like writing a check for $900 in taxes to a department store to have them give to the county. Are you nuts?


It doesn't matter who I am. What matters is the utterly ridiculous stuff still going on.


*********Which publication just had pages 1 and 7? Depending on what it is, I will re-post. If it is a school regulation, then you can look it up. Yourself.

If this isn't interesting then why are there so many hits on this thread? Don't come here if you aren't interested. It's as simple as that.

South Lakes Band.

LISTEN UP, PARENTS!!!!!!!!!

Multiple entries state "To be eligible for the spring trip all students must participate in TAG Day and the Citrus Sale or make alternate arrangements with the director if they have a conflict."

You don't have to participate in a fundraiser to purchase county services like a school trip. You don't have to make alternate arrangements with the director. If you don't want your child knocking on doors and asking for money or selling fruit you just say NO. You don't have to make ANY alternate arrangements, and that certainly doesn't mean they can make you give anybody money because your child didn't participate. This shouldn't even be worded like this. This should never have gone out to families like this. Who allows this garbage to go out?

A teacher can't order anybody to participate in a fundraiser, period. AND YOU ABSOLUTLEY CANNOT MAKE SOMEBODY FUNDRAISE FOR A PRIVATE CORPORATION IN ORDER TO GO ON A SCHOOL TRIP. You cannot have students and parents sign a contract to participate in fundraising as a part of taking the class. You in particular cannot have students and parents sign a contract to participate in fundraisers for a PRIVATE CORPORATION as a part of taking the class. The new handbook is presented (it doesn't matter that it is new-optional fundraising has always been the policy).

Who is messing with Student ID numbers?
Attachments:

I am still awaiting some information.

No multiple marcher 10% discounts are allowed on FCPS fees. This is an FCPS course. No discounts was already clarified with the Comptroller. The price is the price and it is set by the Fee Notice.

The separate summer camp fee is noted.

The Marching fee is maxed out.

Any uniform items that the students have to replace should have the money go to the school. Those items are owned by the School Board, NOT the parent group.

Anybody besides staff messing with student ID's?
Attachments:

senza sord th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If this isn't interesting then why are there so
> many hits on this thread? Don't come here if you
> aren't interested. It's as simple as that.

Uh, I wouldn't pat myself on the back there. As one tiny example - this thread started a week after yours has more posts and just as many views:

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1709217.html

Getting tired of senza?

Anyways, I don't see anywhere in the attached document that uniform fees go anwhere but to SCHS. And the only mention of student id's is blackboard. Don't think boosters have anything to do with blackboard.

Requiem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Band.
>
> LISTEN UP, PARENTS!!!!!!!!!
>
> Multiple entries state "To be eligible for the
> spring trip all students must participate in TAG
> Day and the Citrus Sale or make alternate
> arrangements with the director if they have a
> conflict."
>
> You don't have to participate in a fundraiser to
> purchase county services like a school trip. You
> don't have to make alternate arrangements with the
> director. If you don't want your child knocking on
> doors and asking for money or selling fruit you
> just say NO. You don't have to make ANY alternate
> arrangements, and that certainly doesn't mean they
> can make you give anybody money because your child
> didn't participate. This shouldn't even be worded
> like this. This should never have gone out to
> families like this. Who allows this garbage to go
> out?
>
> A teacher can't order anybody to participate in a
> fundraiser, period. AND YOU ABSOLUTLEY CANNOT MAKE
> SOMEBODY FUNDRAISE FOR A PRIVATE CORPORATION IN
> ORDER TO GO ON A SCHOOL TRIP. You cannot have
> students and parents sign a contract to
> participate in fundraising as a part of taking the
> class. You in particular cannot have students and
> parents sign a contract to participate in
> fundraisers for a PRIVATE CORPORATION as a part of
> taking the class. The new handbook is presented
> (it doesn't matter that it is new-optional
> fundraising has always been the policy).
>
> Who is messing with Student ID numbers?


How many names will senza use. Requiem for sensible ways to support programs that taxpayers don't want to. Anyways, you raise an interesting point regarding fundraisers and spring trip. Since spring trip is a VOLUNTARY NON MANDATORY NON CURRICULAR event (emphasis ala Senza) the prohibition against fund raising doesn't make so much sense. Who knows. Onto Charms. Since Charms was purchased by FCPS for all band programs, and they imply this is the first year of use at SCHS, and they refer students and parents to the band director, one can only conclude that ONLY FCPS STAFF ARE MESSING AROUND WITH STUDENT IDS. Just an opinion.

Requiem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> South Lakes Band.
>
> LISTEN UP, PARENTS!!!!!!!!!
>
> Multiple entries state "To be eligible for the
> spring trip all students must participate in TAG
> Day and the Citrus Sale or make alternate
> arrangements with the director if they have a
> conflict."
>
> You don't have to participate in a fundraiser to
> purchase county services like a school trip. You
> don't have to make alternate arrangements with the
> director. If you don't want your child knocking on
> doors and asking for money or selling fruit you
> just say NO. You don't have to make ANY alternate
> arrangements, and that certainly doesn't mean they
> can make you give anybody money because your child
> didn't participate. This shouldn't even be worded
> like this. This should never have gone out to
> families like this. Who allows this garbage to go
> out?
>
> A teacher can't order anybody to participate in a
> fundraiser, period. AND YOU ABSOLUTLEY CANNOT MAKE
> SOMEBODY FUNDRAISE FOR A PRIVATE CORPORATION IN
> ORDER TO GO ON A SCHOOL TRIP. You cannot have
> students and parents sign a contract to
> participate in fundraising as a part of taking the
> class. You in particular cannot have students and
> parents sign a contract to participate in
> fundraisers for a PRIVATE CORPORATION as a part of
> taking the class. The new handbook is presented
> (it doesn't matter that it is new-optional
> fundraising has always been the policy).
>
> Who is messing with Student ID numbers?


your statements are true. the intent is that the program schedules a trip, the program provides an opportunity for the trip, the participants are expected to partake in the provided opportunity so as to not burden the program for a free trip or forfeit the trip due to lack of participation. what is the crux of the anger?

If some group of people is choosing to fund a trip using fundraising in addition to paying a fee, it is with the understanding that this is a dicey setup. It is very clear that fundraising is always always always entirely optional. It always has been. This is public school. The program doesn't have a trip, THE SCHOOL has a trip. The Handbook clearly states that whether a child participates in fundraising or not, the benefit per child will be the same if fundraisers are applied towards the trip, as to do otherwise is private benefit, which is frowned upon by the IRS. I stayed out of the IFA arguments. This is what the Comptroller wants. That is what good old Unemployed Lois wanted and whoever took over her job probably wants, also. Read the Handbook. If you don't like it, call up the Comptroller. Find Lois and ask her. She probably has some time on her hands and would love to chat.

Charge everybody the full fee and use your fundraising for instruments.
Attachments:

Lake Braddock Band.

Pre-season is technically optional. I don't think I saw a separate fee for that and I saw the requested $25 donations for additional instructors. I don't have enough information but I thought instructors could be included in the fee for camp. They have to be screened and paid by the school system. They HAVE to be screened. Even your guest musicians have to be screened. I am sure they are wonderful but it is a school requirement that anybody working with students in a school-sponsored activity has to have a background check.

Tag Day is optional.

Don't know who all has access to the Student ID's.

Uniforms are not provided by Boosters. Uniforms are provided by the school system as they own all the uniforms.

I hope you all still understand spring trip is optional. That was one thing that had to get straightened out. It was marked as required in a previous year.

I still awaiting some information.
Attachments:

If you don't like the IFA and fundraising/no private benefit terms, call the Comptroller and argue about it.

571-423-3700.

senza sord gf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If some group of people is choosing to fund a trip
> using fundraising in addition to paying a fee, it
> is with the understanding that this is a dicey
> setup. It is very clear that fundraising is always
> always always entirely optional. It always has
> been. This is public school. The program doesn't
> have a trip, THE SCHOOL has a trip. The Handbook
> clearly states that whether a child participates
> in fundraising or not, the benefit per child will
> be the same if fundraisers are applied towards the
> trip, as to do otherwise is private benefit,
> which is frowned upon by the IRS. I stayed out of
> the IFA arguments. This is what the Comptroller
> wants. That is what good old Unemployed Lois
> wanted and whoever took over her job probably
> wants, also. Read the Handbook. If you don't like
> it, call up the Comptroller. Find Lois and ask
> her. She probably has some time on her hands and
> would love to chat.
>
> Charge everybody the full fee and use your
> fundraising for instruments.


Please stop being angry for this discussion. If the trip is set up in good faith as an enrichment to the program, and it is not budgeted as a course requirement, the only option is to fundraise for it. It cannot be included as a mandatory fee because it would be cost prohibitive for some families and if too many asked for a fee waiver, the trip would not happen. Why is it bad to provide an option for a good enrichment? The families that don't want to fundraise or don't want to go on the trip are not obligated to do so.

> Uniforms are not provided by Boosters. Uniforms
> are provided by the school system as they own all
> the uniforms.

That's kind of like saying the school board provides school lunches, rather than the people who run the kitchen.

angry Wrote:
>
>
> Please stop being angry for this discussion. If
> the trip is set up in good faith as an enrichment
> to the program, and it is not budgeted as a course
> requirement, the only option is to fundraise for
> it. It cannot be included as a mandatory fee
> because it would be cost prohibitive for some
> families and if too many asked for a fee waiver,
> the trip would not happen. Why is it bad to
> provide an option for a good enrichment? The
> families that don't want to fundraise or don't
> want to go on the trip are not obligated to do so.


I am not angry about anything. You are just very confused. Call up the Comptroller. PRIVATE BENEFIT. Fundraising provides such a miniscule amount towards the trips. If somebody can afford to spend $5000 on gift cards to make $200, they can afford an optional trip. You can still fundraise, but it looks like the amount supplied for the trip has to be applied equally to all the travelers. $5000 for 100 students is only $50 a student. Whoop dee do. I didn't write the Lois letter or the School Finance Handbook. Call the Comptroller instead of whining about me.


Who still wants pages 2-6 and of what?

common (very) time Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Uniforms are not provided by Boosters. Uniforms
> > are provided by the school system as they own
> all
> > the uniforms.
>
> That's kind of like saying the school board
> provides school lunches, rather than the people
> who run the kitchen.

The school system provides the uniforms. The School Board owns the uniforms. The school system does provide the lunches. The employees just serve them.

You don't provide something that you don't own or purchase and then sell to somebody, like lunches.

> I am not angry about anything.

There is pure rage seeping from some of your posts. Either you feel it or you are void of the ability to accurately communicate your emotions.

Fundraising provides such a miniscule
> amount towards the trips. $5000 for 100 students is only $50 a
> student. Whoop dee do.


How f'ing elitist of you. $50 is plenty of money to a lot of people. It makes a difference for many students. I'd sure as hell like to have a extra $50 lying around. You call $50 for a student towards a trip miniscule, and 'whoop de do', yet if a fee ended up being $15 more than the actual cost, you'd be screaming to get it refunded, huh? (it should be) ...my point is that the money does matter, and it does make a difference for more kids than you realize.

senza sord efe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> common (very) time Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Uniforms are not provided by Boosters.
> Uniforms
> > > are provided by the school system as they own
> > all
> > > the uniforms.
> >
> > That's kind of like saying the school board
> > provides school lunches, rather than the people
> > who run the kitchen.
>
> The school system provides the uniforms. The
> School Board owns the uniforms. The school system
> does provide the lunches. The employees just serve
> them.
>
> You don't provide something that you don't own or
> purchase and then sell to somebody, like lunches.

True, at my school we participate in a unison "Thanking of the School Board" for providing us nourishment.

senza sord efe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> common (very) time Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Uniforms are not provided by Boosters.
> Uniforms
> > > are provided by the school system as they own
> > all
> > > the uniforms.
> >
> > That's kind of like saying the school board
> > provides school lunches, rather than the people
> > who run the kitchen.
>
> The school system provides the uniforms. The
> School Board owns the uniforms. The school system
> does provide the lunches. The employees just serve
> them.
>
> You don't provide something that you don't own or
> purchase and then sell to somebody, like lunches.

Earlier you got your crusty panties in a twist over words like "expected." Maybe you should meditate a bit more on what it means to provide something.

YXkmt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fundraising provides such a miniscule
> > amount towards the trips. $5000 for 100
> students is only $50 a
> > student. Whoop dee do.
>
>
> How f'ing elitist of you. $50 is plenty of money
> to a lot of people. It makes a difference for
> many students. I'd sure as hell like to have a
> extra $50 lying around. You call $50 for a
> student towards a trip miniscule, and 'whoop de
> do', yet if a fee ended up being $15 more than the
> actual cost, you'd be screaming to get it
> refunded, huh? (it should be) ...my point is
> that the money does matter, and it does make a
> difference for more kids than you realize.

I question the judgement of committing hard-earned fundraising money to help subsidize completely optional oftentimes luxury trips, then turning around and wanting even more fundraising to provide NECESSARY things like music and instruments. And then also trying to make people feel guilty about not doing fundraising, which they don't have to do.

You don't HAVE to go to Disney to be in Orchestra. You DO need things like school-owned basses.

> I question the judgement of committing hard-earned fundraising money to help >subsidize completely optional oftentimes luxury trips, then turning around and >wanting even more fundraising to provide NECESSARY things like music and >instruments. And then also trying to make people feel guilty about not doing >fundraising, which they don't have to do.
>
>You don't HAVE to go to Disney to be in Orchestra. You DO need things like school->owned basses.


There are dedicated fundraisers for specific things. One may be for a trip. One may be for program needs. Yes, they are optional. I never said they weren't. That doesn't make them less important. The trip is optional, but it's a crucial event during the year that goes a long way toward program building, retention, and recruitment.

Which sounds better: "Hey kids, we have an optional trip to New York - it costs $500 per student, sorry there's no fundraiser to help if you aren't rich", or "Hey kids, we have an optional trip to New York - it costs $500, but we'll have at least two fundraisers and we could possibly bring down the cost to something more affordable for everyone"

^Well, go ahead. It sounds better, but when you look at the reality of how little $5000 goes to assist 200 kids....and the reality that you can't tell them they have to sell popcorn or oranges or hit up their neighbors or they can't go on a school trip.....they don't have to do that. And a staff member has no right to put something like that in a syllabus.

Anybody want to wager a bet on whether Madison can collect three times instead of twice on the Percussion fee? They are charging Marching Band out separately. I don't see that in the Fee Notice.

It's the principle, not the amount.
Attachments:

My kid's music teacher seems to have everything she needs - to constantly show DVDs to the kids. Sigh.

I was seriously wondering about the $1300 per student costs at Madison for the Band program, and the $500 they were asking for from each and every student. So, I got a copy of their budget. These people are living large. Life's good in Vienna.

It looks like $23,000 is budgeted for marching band staff, $39,000 for transportation, $22,000 for hotels/etc., $23,500 for food. For marching band. No wonder you want $500 from everybody. Per child. $300 of it is for Marching Band. In addition to the $300 FCPS fee. What are you doing? First of all, these kids can pack lunch or go to the snack bar. Why is all this money for hotels going through a Booster account? All hotels are part of a school-sponsored trip. Probably some of that transportation, also. The fees for those are supposed to be calculated at cost and explained to the parents and paid to the school. The records are supposed to be open to the public. Any member of the public.


Then there is the $18,000 for Band sectionals. That's $120 per child calculated out on 150 kids, which is what you are using, to pay for lessons for your kids. You are figuring the remaining $200 per child for non-marching stuff, plus $300 for marching stuff, to make your $500. I don't know that you are going to be able to write off much of your "donation".

Parents, if you are paying that $500, you are receiving significant goods and services in return. It isn't enough for the officers to say "consult your tax advisor". You are entitled to receive and they are required to provide you with a clear statement of what you have received for your $500 in the way of goods and services. It is substantial. We already caught your group encouraging tax fraud LAST year when they proclaimed triumphantly that you could write off the payment for pre-season and a trip as a donation to the non-profit. Look at the nice letter that had to go out. You were promoting tax fraud on a bill for what were school-sponsored services being funneled through a non-profit and the Comptroller and the whole gang got on your case. Come on. Are you are trying to do it again. CUT IT OUT!
Attachments:

!
Attachments:

See! I am not making this up. This is a new classification of payments. It is called a donation/payment.
Attachments:

anger management Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I am not angry about anything.
>
> There is pure rage seeping from some of your
> posts. Either you feel it or you are void of the
> ability to accurately communicate your emotions.


Not gonna own up on the anger? To your credit, you have toned it down a bit in the last 24 hours. Still, I think some readers have trouble differentiating your rantings from those made by the residents of the local metro stations.

I think I have really pleasant considering that I have been called a cunt and an effing bitch and laughed at by people who promote tax fraud, steal from families, lied to a bunch of families, ignored the Virginia public records laws, try to tell kids they can't go on a school trip, etc. etc. etc. Compared to what I was dealing with over the last four years, I am a saint.

We are going to be at this for a while......this is a ton of information.

I see. You're angry, but you deserve to be, so it is okay to say that you aren't.

If you don't like The Plan, put your kid in private school.
illegal bills
very unsavory stuff
Shame on you
You should know better. Shame on you.
Staff can go to jail.
You people all need to hush up
gouging parents
QUIT WHINING AND COMPLAINING
cut that crap out.
It hurts everybody when you drive up to school in your Lexus
Get over it.
put your kid in Flint Hill or Madeira.
quit being difficult.
you just have to adjust your expectations and goals down a little.
quit wasting the time of the school officials with arrogant testing of the system.
there is probably more of this going on under the surface and off the record and behind the scenes.
we are all in the implementation phase of things.
raise Holy Hell. Immediately.
slush fund.
I think a lot of people just went totally overboard and got out of line
I think a lot of them don't care about doing what is right
They just want to be difficult and obnoxious
When people act like that it is usually for a reason.
I think there are some groups who are trying to skirt around the new system.
Whatever. It's just a Booster group. You don't run the world.
I am immune to the likes of you.
your arguments are futile.
loved the part about contacting the sheriff if a party ignores a court order
except for the Slush Fund problem
people who are doing shady stuff
Where the heck are you going to send the sheriff
It was impossible to press charges
we still needed critical records
I have never seen so many confused people in my life.
what went on was not appropriate.
there is still no excuse for what happened.
This whole thing smells fishy. Where there is smoke, there is usually fire. Just sayin'....
I am seeing a lot of efforts to circumvent the new processes
nasty stuff that went on.
Boosters also will no longer have to resort to ugly tactics
There were very obvious problems.
people are violating state and Federal laws
There were a lot of staff who were totally asleep.
This is utterly ridiculous.
should not be putting stuff out that is against the state and federal laws, violating school regulations
teachers just missed a lot of stuff.
You can't assume that a certain program is fine.
staff were not paying attention, or were choosing to ignore what they were told to do.
That is really, really, really bad.
it was totally off the wall.
They win the arrogance award.
Dr. Moniuszko, you're the best
very sad that the very people who are supposed to care about the children and families and doing their jobs properly
I didn't do anything.
You can pick from the Booster group who refused to release public records and publicly treated me like trash (and one of them verbally abused my child and made them cry), played games with trip money, the teacher(s) and administrator(s) who allowed this to happen, the school personnel who didn't know a public record from a hole in the wall, the Booster attorney who was encouraging their atrocious, abusive behavior and was totally obnoxious and threatening me inappropriately.
I am not tolerating any attitude from anybody.
DO NOT GIVE THEM ONE DOLLAR. Because they are probably acting like this for some not very good reasons.
And people who are being denied public records and records on financial transactions that they made with a Booster group have every right in the world to get very, very ugly.
Quit whining.
Justify what this was for. NOW.
WHY? That takes a lot of nerve.
These are problems for the school administrators to work out. I am staying out of it.
it was clear that things were not being monitored consistently.
I have demanded answers, for all of you
I am standing very, very firm.
Just shut them down and run all the money through the school system. THAT is what you do to people you are really ticked at.
We chuckled about a few other things regarding this.
why has this all been going on, and unless somebody reviews these, how is it going to get caught and corrected?
Why weren't a lot of the teachers doing this? Some of them were at the parent meetings where very inappropriate actions were being discussed.
violated school regulations, state and/or Federal laws,
inappropriate bill
I spent about 7 hours with senior level administrators
You never know when this is going to happen again. It happens all over the country. Every day.
Some of the school personnel also yelled at me and made fun of me in front of large groups
something is still seriously missing.
Why are people ignoring what they were told to do and NOT do?
It is NOT about anybody's ego. GET OVER IT.
so figure it out. NOW. Because you are being held accountable. All of you.
there are/were a LOT of people who aren't paying for their kids.
Who isn't paying for their kids? WHY?
You also sent a bill for it. You don't have the authority to do that.
How would you feel if you had two or three kids in this program, could barely afford it as it was, and then you were sent an inappropriate bill
You might actually be able to bill the parents for more
PAY UP. Keep your kid home. Plan. Do something. But, QUIT BEING FREELOADERS!!!
You are greedy, selfish, unrealistic moochers who think you are entitled to have a free ride, is what you are.
I do find it very interesting how people who are sending families bills for $230+ when they don't even have the right to do that don't seem to be a problem.
And there are quite a few programs that are not charging anywhere near what they could charge,
Somebody please explain to me how soaking families and children for money that you are not legally entitled to is NOT harmful,
You just can't send out a bill to parents for it.
Booster clubs don't have the right to send out bills
If you don't like it, put your kid in private school or go work in a private school.
you are screwing around with all this
So quit playing games. You are wasting their valuable time. I am not.
they all are being taken advantage of.
renounce your citizenship and get out of this country. Sooner rather than later.
violates school regulations, state, or Federal laws, it has to be squared away. And there was a LOT of that.
quit with the lame excuses when you are caught in the act doing this stuff.
Put your kid in private school.
You rebellious types can probably keep a good bit of this
not correct things when you violate public school regulations, etc.
This is not a scandal, but something that just needed to be fixed.
violations of school policy.
This was set up with Dr. Moniuszko when I told him I had seen enough messing around
Ask RM. We have discussed this extensively.
FCPS is not in charge of Booster organizations, and Booster organizations can't be in charge of FCPS activities. This has gotten very mixed up over the years.
Ask RM.
never really should have been managed the way they were for so many years. It did not follow written policy and state laws, or common sense
I could care less. Really.
QUIT BLAMING IT ON ME!!!!!!!!!!!! If you people started doing these, whatever happens is your own fault. Grow up!
The following groups will be identified in a separate thread if their issues don't get straightened out by Jan 15th
give the staff anything they need to fix this. RIGHT NOW.
This is a bare minimum list. I might add more.
You explain yourselves to the school system and your parents if you haven't already. Immediately. Quit playing games, folks!
when you are dealing with groups of parents scattered all over the county, that is a huge problem,
You people were eating it for a lot of scofflaws. As well as paying for the FRM kids.
The voice of reason.
you have until January 15th. Start coughing up some records. Now.
This is no time to be nice.
There should be no excuses this year. It is actually getting worse. They are getting more creative at dodging the requirements. I saw a lot of that. Hence, the deadline.
You never know when some of the accounting people can BE the problem. Watch out. Some of them like Dirty Little Secrets.
Time's up all around. Wrap it up. January 15th.
renounce your citizenship and move out of the country and make more room for us in the Land of the Free.
January 15th! These bills and issues are public records.
The true losers are the people who selfishly screwed over thousands of parents and children with their games over the years.
This is far more interesting and rewarding than watching Reality TV.
If people are going to continue to put out this trash, I will continue to look.
I think you people are getting hysterical for no reason.
January 15th!!!
Explain yourselves. Right here. I challenge you.
misuse of funds is not the point.
And if I don't hear how this was explained by January 15th, the names will be posted
There is nothing inflammatory about that, nothing insulting
As far as outing, the four groups in question have been handling public funds.
Why do you people want to put the licenses of the teachers and administrators in jeopardy?
Have fun with this one!!!!!!!!!!
all that matters is whether the existing laws and regulations were followed
Please treat these school officials with respect
Working out the details on just the Final Four is a ton of work.
The other areas are on their own. I could care less.
Get to work fixing the numbers and details. January 15th.
I don't mean to blackmail people, but most of the problems were reported in Sept/Oct.
I am merely setting a deadline.
I am not accusing anybody of anything.
get this worked out by January 15th. This is very basic stuff.
staff can't walk away from their responsibilities in this type of situation. So, team up and straighten this out.
You can't go sending out bills for $50,000-$70,000 to parents unless they are completely justified. And they aren't even close. And you are NOT waiting until next year to fix this. You are going to fix it THIS year.
January 15th.
I am giving these groups and schools the chance to work this out without being publicly fingered. The claims could be very defensible.
However, more analysis needs to be done
Right now. I am not accusing anybody of anything. I am merely pointing out that there might be problems.
right to go to Small Claims court,
January 15th. I am sure some of this will be fine. Some, maybe not.

I would tell them all to fuck off. you should have done that a long time ago. this is great.

sounds like it

Fairfax HS Orchestra.

Fundraising is optional.
Refuse to write your Spring Trip checks to the Boosters. Insist on a school account.
The consumables fee should go to the school. They say the money becomes the property of the Boosters. If you gave it to the school, it is still your property, you can see the records, and you get a refund of any excess, of which there will probably be none.

Your FARM status is being violated by having the money handled through the Boosters. You have to show the form to the teacher but the Boosters are keeping the records. the doesn't even have ready access to them. They have to have your specific written permission to see your status.
Attachments:

All fundraisers are optional.
Somebody altered the template. Any excess consumables have to be offered back to families. There is supposed to be a specified amount for uniform reserve account. This is now the second group at McLean to do this. Whose idea was this? This conflicts with the FAQ's.
Attachments:

I realize the Orchestras and Choruses are doing a slower transition than the Bands. Why, I don't know. They are still being evaluated.

McLean Orchestra.

All fundraisers are optional. All fundraisers are optional.
No IFA's.

The procedure for FARM kids is to approach the teacher with a copy of their lunch form or other type of legitimate problem as per the fee Notice, and they are supposed to get a discounted class fee. They do NOT have to do fundraising to make up for this. This is their right. And they do NOT have to give their status to the other parents. They are NOT authorized to get an automatic discount on the optional trips. The helping process with that is a confusing disaster in the Guidelines. I already pointed that out.
With the money running through the parents, this gets all messed up.

The $50 "payment"/"tax deduction"-Boosters do not have the right to send anybody a bill for a payment for these items or anything else. You do not have to pay this bill. Even now. You never did in previous years! This is supposed to go through the school and only consumables can be charged for. Any requests from Boosters for money have to be optional. This is only $50, but you are calling this a tax-deductible PAYMENT and some things look like services received (activities). A payment is probably not tax-deductible. A DONATION is. This is so messed up. It's not the amount it is the technicalities.

The checks are written to the MHS Orchestra and are going to the Boosters. The Boosters are NOT the MHS Orchestra. They are an independent non-profit. Some schools are having checks written to the XY High School Band/Chorus/Orchestra, but the money goes to the school. This needs to be clarified with the Business staff and have a consistent approach. I mentioned this several times.

The uniforms and instruments are school property. Just saying.
Attachments:

Langley chorus.

All fundraisers are optional. That includes car wash, coffee sales, etc. I notice that participation in fundraisers is required to get a letter/pin. It said encouraged on one page, but the actual formal form indicates required. Students are required to have a minimum number of points in each category I-IV, and a net profit of $61 is required to meet Category III/fundraising. This is grossly inappropriate. I have seen other letter requirements that had fundraising as an option to get points, but you could easily make up the points doing other things. In particular, students should not be required to raise money for a non-profit entity that is separate from the school system. You can't do it for the school system either. I might have missed this on some earlier ones.

Whatever you do, DO NOT write any checks to the Boosters for that $1000 Spring Trip. Insist that be handled through an insured school account.

I liked your used uniform set-up. There was one group that had an online thrift shop, which I thought was brilliant. A tux is a tux. Boys grow like weeds in high school. Schools could even share the information.

SCHOOL-sponsored raffles and sales of raffle tickets by students on school premises are prohibited. Don't know how you work this. (reg. 1370.6)

If you are purchasing expensive uniforms through a non-profit it is at your own risk.

FCPS has the right to charge a fee for consumables instead of relying on donations. I presume that will be coming. Hopefully soon.
Attachments:

All curricular concerts should be free for all schools now. If anybody is charging, they need to stop. That is straight from the Comptroller. Yes, your concerts are marked as free, but you also indicate that a lot of other schools are charging. They shouldn't be.

Staff should not be doing a sales pitch for Boosters with a dollar amount. Nothing unique here.

FCPS fees can certainly be charged and really should be charged because it prevents a lot of problems. People can always donate on top of that.

It says private instruction is necessary to be in Philharmonic. Technically this is optional. I know what the deal is. I was a violinist. You need private lessons.

I see the Spring Trip is over $1200 and the adult price is almost $1500. First of all, those checks to Boosters for this need to stop. Right now. This is too much public money to be running through a volunteer bank account. Second, if the adults going on the trip as chaperones are paying almost $1500 for the privilege, you are being used. The cost of chaperones can be built into the price for the students. Chaperones are helping out the school system. They are required by school regulations. You don't have to pay for that privilege. And that price is totally ridiculous$, but thi$ i$ Langley High $chool.

No IFA's. The price is the price on the trip whether kids participate in fundraisers or not. There aren't two separate prices. Somebody up in your neck of the woods was doing that in the past and I can't remember which group it was.
Attachments:

a witness = senza sord Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sounds like it

The only vulgarity I directed at my old group was telling "S" to blow it out her "rear end" when she insulted my family, threatened my job, and was publicly screaming at me. She totally deserved it. What a shrew.

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> when she insulted my family, threatened my job, and was
> publicly screaming at me. She totally deserved it.
> What a shrew.

Since those three things are exactly what you have been doing on FFXU since day one (insulting, threatening, and PUBLICLY SCREAMING)... well, I can see then how you understand people thinking the exact same of you.

^^^ +1

Pointing out regulatory violations and insisting they be corrected and refusing to give up access to public records is not insulting. I was told they were planning on posting the letter from Dr. Garza, and that somebody who knew what they were doing would be checking the syllabi and financial billing procedures. Neither of those obviously happened in the "moving forward" plans. Oh well. I am not surprised in the least. I fully anticipated doing this.

Parents, I am bringing up major stuff here to discuss and pointing out your rights. Enough is enough. I pointed out some of this three years ago. Time's up! If I were you I would start asking some big questions and set some limits.

And I really don't care if you don't like me. If you are the kind of person who thinks it is ok to send people a big bill when you are not entitled to and demand payment, encourage tax fraud, take money from kids and parents and then sneak around, inappropriately bully people into selling whatever it is you want to hawk, not keep accurate records and scalp families, and block access to public records, then I sure am not looking to associate with you anyway. You can live with your sicko mental disorders and hang out with people who think like that.

****** Just don't take it out on kids and families who don't know any better.

> Pointing out regulatory violations and insisting
> they be corrected and refusing to give up access
> to public records is not insulting.

No one is calling you on that. You do quite a bit more than just that, which is what they are calling you on.


> I fully anticipated
> doing this.

You look forward to doing it.


> If I were you I would start asking
> some big questions and set some limits.

All this discussion you wish to be generated never seems to materialize. You post facts with a side of screaming. People call you on the screaming. You retort. It gets ugly. Rinse, repeat.


> If
> you are the kind of person who thinks it is ok to
> send people a big bill when you are not entitled
> to and demand payment, encourage tax fraud, take
> money from kids and parents and then sneak around,
> inappropriately bully people into selling whatever
> it is you want to hawk, not keep accurate records
> and scalp families, and block access to public
> records, then I sure am not looking to associate
> with you anyway.

I can't recall anyone ever posting something that indicated that they feel your above scenario is "ok."

It's pretty obvious on here what some of the attitudes are. It is very obvious from what I am finding in the information posted here.

It's very obvious from the way people have acted the last four years.

I have never seen so many well-educated, confused people in my life.

Parents, I am posting your rights and the questions you need to start asking and the issues you need to address.

I will also add that being all polite and trusting and patient didn't work very well. There are a lot of families who were offered some significant amounts of money because I quit being nice. Ugly works much better in these types of situations.

> Ugly
> works much better in these types of situations.

Well that sums you up.

without mute (not BBs reg) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Ugly
> > works much better in these types of situations.
>
> Well that sums you up.



When people are lying, stealing, abusing parents and children, and otherwise breaking the law, that is NOT the time to be nice.
And I don't apologize for that.

Then why the feigned surprise and denial when people call you on it?

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Volunteers, teachers and staff are lying, stealing, abusing parents
> and children, and otherwise breaking the law.

"I am a saint."

Lake Braddock Chorus. Oh we are going to have a struggle with this.

The Spring Trip is optional. OPTIONAL. O-P-T-I-O-N-A-L. We discussed that last year when everybody was being told they had to sign up for this very expensive trip because choirs are supposed to be adjudicated outside of the school, making it a very expensive part of the course. Don't worry. Band was doing the same thing. They got talked to, also.

I can't tell if an FCPS fee is being charged or not. A $30 "expectation" is mentioned. I hate that word.

Then there is another form that says a $10 payment is the minimum for the students to participate in chorus. This is on the page with the Booster payments. Who are you to tell students this? They technically don't have to pay you anything. I know they are still working things out with the choruses.

There are several mentions of late fees for payments, as much as $20. We already went around the block with those out at Herndon. VERBOTEN. That is a totally unauthorized fee. Parents, you are entitled to a refund on those. Fees are not supposed to be a fundraiser for a non-profit or the school system. They are supposed to cover actual costs.

This program desperately needs somebody to calculate out the consumables fee, label it as FCPS, put it on letterhead, charge it, and put it into a school account. And get the uniform rental into a school account.


Boys rent their uniforms from the SCHOOL SYSTEM, NOT the Boosters. The Boosters don't own the uniforms. They are the property of the School Board. That money is supposed to run through a school account.

No IFA's are allowed. All fundraisers are optional. Curricular concerts are free.

Whatever you do, parents, DO NOT write a check to a Booster club for Spring Trip. Insist on a school account.

Next year will be interesting.
Attachments:

Lake Braddock Orchestra.

Here we go.

Opening with a letter from the Booster President declaring that Booster members will be in a separate line from non-Booster members and that Booster members will be seated first. La di da. Tacky. Rude. Totally inappropriate in public school. You should be ashamed of yourselves, but of course you're not. Donating to a 501c3 has NOTHING to do with where you sit at a public school concert and should not give you any priority for getting in the door before anybody else. This sounds like the South back in the 50's. Get to the back of the bus!!!!!!! I would just walk right on in. I might drive down for a concert and crash the line just to piss somebody off. And why the Hell does a Booster President think they have right to declare this? Please don't tell me a staff member approved this. Their name is also on the Booster form.

Who has been dealing with the student ID numbers?

Who owns the lockers? The school system. Who owns the locks? Why are locker rental and locks being paid to the Booster club?

No IFA's are allowed.

Uniform rental should be going to the school. Uniforms are owned by the School Board.

Liked the part about the portion of the donation over $35 being tax-deductible.
Attachments:

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lake Braddock Orchestra.
>
> Here we go.
>
> Opening with a letter from the Booster President
> declaring that Booster members will be in a
> separate line from non-Booster members and that
> Booster members will be seated first. La di da.
> Tacky. Rude. Totally inappropriate in public
> school. You should be ashamed of yourselves, but
> of course you're not. Donating to a 501c3 has
> NOTHING to do with where you sit at a public
> school concert and should not give you any
> priority for getting in the door before anybody
> else. This sounds like the South back in the 50's.
> Get to the back of the bus!!!!!!! I would just
> walk right on in. I might drive down for a concert
> and crash the line just to piss somebody off. And
> why the Hell does a Booster President think they
> have right to declare this? Please don't tell me a
> staff member approved this. Their name is also on
> the Booster form.
>
>





OK I am believer now.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Is this the Jennifer who thinks she has the right to put out a letter being snotty to the other parents and controlling access to a public school concert?
Attachments:

This again.

> The OP is basically a vigilante. Like most
> "Justice Seekers", she is convinced that she doing
> the right thing and is trying to do what is best
> for people. Unfortnately, this quest for
> righteousness is narrow minded and has
> consequences that affect many, many people in
> myriad ways that she will undoubtedly refuse to
> acknowledge and/or find real solutions for.
>
> Did I miss anything?

I invite other contributowrs of this thread to share my post name.

m97KK Wrote:Y
-------------------------------------------------------
> senza sord th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > If this isn't interesting then why are there so
> > many hits on this thread? Don't come here if
> you
> > aren't interested. It's as simple as that.
>
> Uh, I wouldn't pat myself on the back there. As
> one tiny example - this thread started a week
> after yours has more posts and just as many
> views:
>
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/170
> 9217.html

I would not be proud of the number of hits on this site. Most threads are full of porn and trolls. You should find a more credible forum if you are serious.

I think it is a great place to put out the information. The public records are credible on their own and people can say whatever they want. It gets the job done. Good enough. The major stuff gets personally delivered to Gatehouse. Parents, feel free to take anything up with your administrators and staff.

fthyuim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> m97KK Wrote:Y
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > senza sord th Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > If this isn't interesting then why are there
> so
> > > many hits on this thread? Don't come here if
> > you
> > > aren't interested. It's as simple as that.
> >
> > Uh, I wouldn't pat myself on the back there.
> As
> > one tiny example - this thread started a week
> > after yours has more posts and just as many
> > views:
> >
> >
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/170
>
> > 9217.html
>
> I would not be proud of the number of hits on this
> site. Most threads are full of porn and trolls.
> You should find a more credible forum if you are
> serious.



If you don't like this forum, then go right ahead and take the public records and post them somewhere else!!!!!!!!!

do you have falls church information?

Yeah, would love to have the scoop on Yorktown HS. Thanks.

yorktownmarchingband Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, would love to have the scoop on Yorktown HS.
> Thanks.

Go to your booster parent meetings. Pretty easy. Take part. Participate. Don't complain until you do. But you know this is a fairfax board....

It's simple Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yorktownmarchingband Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yeah, would love to have the scoop on Yorktown
> HS.
> > Thanks.
>
> Go to your booster parent meetings. Pretty easy.
> Take part. Participate. Don't complain until you
> do. But you know this is a fairfax board....


yorktown is in Arlington.....

We are going to have a little lesson this morning. Let's talk about some of the words I am seeing in the syllabi. Request, expect, and necessary.

Request-the state of being sought after. To ask someone to do something in a polite or formal way.
-when your band instructor requests that you not play your instrument while they are talking, I think they are serious about this. The schools expects children to be on time was another use I saw. Uh, yeh.

Expect-to consider bound in duty or obligated. To consider due.
-When a choral teacher says that you are expected to sing in tune as part of the course, I think they are serious about this. The children are also expected to be in their hotel rooms at 10pm and be quiet on trips.

Necessary-required. Absolutely needed.
-When an orchestra director says private lessons are necessary, I think they are serious about this.

There are obviously some grey areas in these definitions, so why use these words at all, particularly the first two, when you are telling children what you want them to do, and trying to make it sound "optional"? If a teacher expects or requests a student to do something, I think the student feels obligated to do it. Pulling out the dictionary in front of the teacher and splitting hairs would be considered impudent and argumentative.

So don't go telling me these are synonymous with "optional". They aren't. They also aren't clearly synonymous with "highly recommended".

You need to be very specific with people. Particularly children, and the parents that will be refusing to let their children do things because they don't think they are required based on the grey areas associated with these terms.

RETIRE THEM.
Attachments:

Robinson Band.

A $50 fee for regular Band is requested/optional on syllabus and is paid to the school. You can easily make this mandatory for consumables. Why not do it? You don't have to be nice about this. You have state law behind this. I have seen optional parent payments but not optional school payments.

Tiny Tots concerts-no student is supposed to be excused from a class for a fundraiser. This is a school regulation. Fundraisers are extracurricular activities and extracurricular activities are not to interrupt curricular activities. That is a state law. This is a fundraiser. Any performance involving students that has an admission fee is supposed to use serially numbered tickets and have the money go into a school account. Any revenue from a Booster activity involving students is to be in a school account. There can't be a charge for a curricular concert. These Tiny Tots concerts are already under review. What a mess.

You make it sound like you don't receive anything from the county. You poor things. You aren't the only ones who talk like this. I have seen worse. This program received $24,000 this year in appropriated funds for marching band. It also received $1750 for assessment/travel expenses for regular band. You are also benefitting from the completely revised fee schedule that allows the school system to collect up to $300 per student for consumables plus the optional pre-season, and up to $150 for regular Band, and be protected under state law.

What is the travel supplement that everybody is referring to? If there is a school-sponsored trip, that should be running through a school account and the terms presented to the parents and should be public record.

FCPS fees and Booster requests for money should be on separate pages. FCPS staff and property are not supposed to be used to help Boosters collect money. All FCPS fees and communications regarding FCPS fees are supposed to be on FCPS letterhead.

Pre-season is technically optional and can have a separate fee charged, and should go into a school account.

Tag Day is OPTIONAL. O-P-T-I-O-N-A-L. Yes- really, totally, completely optional.

Why are parents processing medical forms? It isn't just this group. That is protected information.

Marching Expected/Suggested donation. With a due date. There's that word again. Are you sending out reminders and more bills for your donation? How much of this $95 donation is for goods and services? It looks like a lot, so why is it called a donation? I don't follow this. You aren't alone.
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Robinson Chorus.

Some good stuff here! Congratulations and thank you for being polite.

Concerts are "expected". I hate that word. "There isn't any good excuse for missing a concert performance." Concerts certainly are "required". They are NOT optional. They are part of the class grade. So much for everybody trying to tell me that expected means optional. Students are also "expected" to purchase concert attire. They sure are. See what I mean? Jeans and sneakers are certainly not an option.

Very, very nice use of the term "highly encouraged" on other audition and travel opportunities. I really like that term. There is so much to be gained on a lot of these, but if you don't want to do it, fine.

Yes, fundraisers are optional. THANK YOU for saying that. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

Cabaret-Any performance involving students that charges admission is supposed to have serially numbered tickets and have the money run through the school accounts. Tickets are being offered to donors. Do you buy those from the school in advance and mark them for donors? Is the money running through a school account? It's supposed to be! I see that you report the value of the tickets provided to donors at $8 each so that people can calculate out their tax deduction. Good job! I see Cabaret night is optional.

Children are paying a program fee to the school. Good. It looks like they are also ordering uniforms through the school. Also good. This is a lot of money. I was told they can also probably get a better price. I would think so, with the number of programs in this county needing tuxes, in particular.
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Robinson Orchestra.

Private lessons are strongly encouraged. Yes, they make a big difference. Another good term to use.

Some students are "expected" to do special auditions and performances. There's that word again.

Course Fee is being paid to the school. Good.

The parents don't provide the uniforms. The school system owns the uniforms. Money for uniforms, which are public property, should run through the school account.

Who has been dealing with the student ID numbers? It says a portion of the number is used to access Charms for the Parent group. Parents are not allowed access to student ID numbers. That is a protected number.

Spring trip is indeed optional. Parents-do NOT write checks to the parent group for Spring Trip. It is too much money. You have a right to have that money run through a properly insured school account with open public records.

No IFA's.
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I continue to work the numbers on the Madison Band parent budget. I got out my magnifiers and I am squinting at these huge amounts of money and little itty bitty numbers.

I am still getting the impression you spend $23,000 for marching band staff. For three months?

You are spending every dollar FCPS gives the school on transportation alone. $24,000. Why are your transportation and hotel expenses so high? If there is an extra trip, that should be itemized out and run through the school as a school-sponsored trip, and the families involved HAVE to pay that, or their kid doesn't go to Prom or get a parking pass or travel. What if ten or fifteen families refuse to "donate"? You will be out thousands and there is nothing you can do about it.

I am still floored by the $23,500 for food. People can feed their own kids. That is $157 a student right there. You are asking for money from people to cover this, but you can't count on receiving the money, because you have no right to demand payment. Again, what if ten or fifteen families refuse to "donate"? You will be out thousands with zero recourse.

$18,000 for band sectionals. That is $2000 a month, $500 a week. Every month, every week. For nine months. That is a lot of help.

(Plus, $6,500 for a percussion instructor. I have seen lots of those.)

I can't help you figure out the $270+ per student for extra instructors for both programs.

No wonder you think you need $500 per student. As a "donation". People are under absolutely NO OBLIGATION to give you any of that. Shift the expenses that you can directly to the families and have them feed their own kids. They can transport their kids and lodge their kids with fees set by the school and run through the school for those extra school-sponsored trips. You can chop $230 off the "DONATION" right there. And it is $35,000 less for you to keep track of and insure and have around your neck as an officer liability, since this is an agreement with a school system, which AIM in particular does not like.

And you still are required under Federal law to do the quid pro quo calculations. Parents, be SURE you get a statement. Have fun.

Did anybody call the school system on trying to charge the percussion kids THREE times for a percussion fee when they can probably only do TWO charges? Sneaky. That was turned in for evaluation.
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Madison goes to national band competitions, not just state and regional, which may account for some of the higher expenses. Excellence costs; agree that "donation" cost is steep and also wonder what they do in case of non-compliance? good luck getting the accounting straight - this community supports this band.

They can't do ANYTHING in the event of non-compliance. I have no idea what goes on "behind the scenes" now along that line. Are they being abusive? They already had to send out a letter because they sent a bill to everybody two years ago for $250 and told them to fundraise it or pay it. I caught it and demanded that the families be informed. They had to offer a bunch back to families and some things had to be reclassified as a donation. I think most people let them keep it, but still...They weren't the only ones doing that. That is why they would be better off just having parents pay what they are responsible for (which needs to run through a school account) instead of trying to get "donations" which are actually payments for services. They could lop $250-$300 off the "donation" that isn't a "donation". This is travel, food, and lodging. Legit expenses, but partial public funds because the lodging and travel are for school-sponsored activities. The food is a personal expense.

Public funds need to go through a school account, NOT be diverted via a 501c3. You lose the insurance coverage that you have in a school account, and the public records are messed up. The student payment spreadsheets are also public record. It isn't just the money. They have to be able to show who paid and how much. When you are calling it a donation, you have no idea who has paid and how much. AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY. Which means they can get things for free that they should be paying for.

Booster clubs have been doing this for years. It is illegal in Virginia to send people a bill for whatever and tell them to pay it as the only things parents have to pay for are consumables and actual costs when it is a class or school-sponsored activity. The hatchet started falling a year or two ago when I pointed out parents and children have rights.

People can still support as much as they want. They are just setting themselves up if they try and call this stuff "donation" when it isn't and nobody has to donate anything. No mandatory fundraising in FCPS.

Old bad habits die hard. This is a power struggle.
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Lake Braddock Orchestra parents-

I notice there is a concert coming up DECEMBER 2nd. That's NEXT WEEK. Right after Thanksgiving. That's not a lot of time.

I hand-delivered a formal complaint to the Superintendent and your school board member (Megan McLaughlin) Friday morning. You see, I have quite a bit of experience in dealing with arrogant, abusive Booster groups and the staff who jump in bed with them instead of doing their jobs. YEARS of experience. That policy of having people who elected to not join the Booster club (which requires a fee) to step aside and wait for the Booster members to enter the auditorium first is rude, abusive, and out of line. And for staff to allow this to happen is highly unethical. Joining that Booster club is entirely optional. It has nothing to do with going to a free, open concert in a public school auditorium to see your child play their viola with their class. I have asked to see a written apology and a retraction of that policy. IMMEDIATELY.

If they don't move on this in time for the concert, and you elected to NOT join this organization (and after reading that letter I can see why), you show up at that concert with your head held high, stand in the line with the Boosters, and walk right in that auditorium. And if they give you any grief, you ignore them. There is absolutely nothing they can do about it. If an Administrator is helping them police the doors, you tell them to move aside and report them to their Superintendent.

The choir policy is also being evaluated. I don't know what perks the lowest paying members have ("priority seating?"), but this sounds equally nasty.

That auditorium is a classroom for the evening. This concert is a part of their grade. You have every right to walk right in there whenever you darn well please and sit wherever you want, as long as it isn't in the student section.

I hope you have a lovely evening.

..

Let's do an analogy- why should a Booster supporter have head of the line privileges when a person who donated $500 directly to the school would NOT have HOL privileges? How about somebody who chaperoned every single game but did not join the Boosters? Some people don't have money to donate or don't like non-profits for some reason. Some people might donate to the school or Boosters later on in life.

All are welcome.

This is abusive. It should be a non-issue.

Woodson Orchestra.

Everybody makes fun of me with the "expectation" word but here are the class "expectations". I think the teacher wants every single one. Do you see anything optional about any of these?

Uniform money going to school. Good.

Not seeing too much, so the standard list-

All fundraisers are optional even if they are for a spring trip. The price is the price.
No IFA's.
Do NOT write any checks to a Booster club for trips.
Any money given to a Booster club has to be optional.
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Oh, Woodson Band. You started out with a nice-looking point sheet for letters, then went straight downhill.

I am enclosing select pages as this was an awkward set-up. It is all on the Woodson Band website if you want more information.

The packet was due October with checks to WT Woodson Band. Is that to the school or the parents?

The money for the Newport News trip should have run through the school. Did it?

Now is where it gets really, really ugly. The pre-season is technically optional, but is a school-sponsored activity. So, the money should run through the school system. The checks are being written to the parents. For $120. Here's the huge problem-you gave everybody 4 Cavalier cards to sell, told them they would get $40 back when they sold them. Even told them it can't be required, but it is a "necessity" in order to maintain the level of performance that the Cavaliers have had over the years, yada. That's no excuse. There is NO MANDATORY FUNDRAISING IN FCPS. YOU WERE ALL TOLD THAT. YOU EVEN SAID YOU COULDN'T MAKE IT REQUIRED AND THEN CHARGED THEM ANYWAY. Your "necessity" claim doesn't mean a darn thing. This is ILLEGAL in Virginia. It is a blatant, in your face violation of school system policy. You are bullies. Another one for Gatehouse. Cut it out. I read stripes are in this year.

TAG day is optional. OPTIONAL. Exemptions do NOT have to be granted by the director. If a parent has a problem with TAG Day, they just say NO, and that is that.

Tiny Tots-This was turned in to Gatehouse already along with several others. Students are not to be excused from classes for fundraisers. This is a fundraiser. It is during the school day. Any performance involving students that charges an admission is supposed to have serially numbered tickets and have the money go into a SCHOOL account, NOT the parents' bank account.
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Woodson Band parents- let me explain something to you. The officers in your organization have broken the law, violated school policy, and are bullies. The next time they try to hand you four or whatever of anything, expect you to write a check to them, and then tell you to try to recoup your money by selling the stuff, you keep your checkbook closed and tell them to put it where the sun don't shine. They knew they weren't supposed to be doing this, they were told they weren't supposed to do this, they even told you that, and then they did it anyway. You have been take advantage of.

Woodson Band families-You don't have to sell five boxes of fruit. Really! You can try if you want, but don't let anybody tell you that you will be in trouble if you don't.
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Marshall Band.


Pre-season is technically optional.
You talk about a $150 "voluntary" payment for camp. To the parents You then refer to it as a "commitment" payment. To the parents. Can something "voluntary" be a "commitment"? Can you "commit" with something that is "voluntary?" Can you "commit" to something that is school-sponsored with a "voluntary" payment to a parent organization? Can something that is "voluntary" and "optional" be called a "payment" for a school-sponsored service? Is this optional or not? Voluntary doesn't necessarily mean optional. And if it isn't, it needs to go through the school. There are probably some things that can be required payment for this camp and some is a donation (instruments).

Anybody want to explain what is going on here?
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Marshall Choir.

You are very, very confused.

A teacher is not allowed to order parents to fundraise for a non-profit or specify a particular amount of donation that is required to give to a non-profit because their child signed up for a class. They never were!!!!!!!!!!!!The only mandatory amounts are FCPS fees and they have to be paid to the school. (I know choirs and orchestras are a mess right now, but this is beyond that.)

************There aren't any more IFA's. And you even said so. So how exactly do you plan to credit $50 of fundraising instead of a "mandatory donation"? Would you like to elaborate on that? Because tracking the fundraising and applying it to their "mandatory $50 donation" IS AN IFA.

Families are not under ANY obligation whatsoever to help Booster clubs "meet their budget". Parents, if you paid this $50, you are entitled to a FULL REFUND. Believe me. IT'S TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALL FUNDRAISERS ARE OPTIONAL. And that doesn't mean that you can send a bill to a parent and tell them to pay it to the Boosters to make up for it.

OMG.....
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Marshall Orchestra.

Again, I know this is a weird year for the Choruses and Orchestras.

Children do not have to pay "dues" to a non-profit because they signed up for a class. Parents don't, either. I don't see what the dues are in here. All payments to Boosters are optional.

Uniforms should be purchased through the school.

An FCPS fee could certainly be calculated out and charged to cover a lot of the expenses.

Parents-you and your children do NOT have to send solicitation letters or approach two individuals or businesses for money, in spite of every child being asked to do so. Parents and students are under no obligation whatsoever to solicit for a non-profit or the school system because the child signed up for a class. If your child is being penalized because you didn't do this, file a complaint.
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Oh, and I don't know the final decision on using students to perform either to solicit money for a non-profit or as a thank you for donating money to a non-profit. The non-profit is not part of the school system. This was brought up with another group.

So Co Chorus.

I LOVED your FCPS fee breakdown. I wish everybody did that. You get a Gold Star for that.


I see the checks are being written to SCHS-Chorus. It looks like they are going to the school. Again, other programs it is confusing as to where the money is going. They are being addressed similarly, but the checks are going into a Booster bank account. Just an example.

This FCPS fee is referred to as an activity fee in the index. This is not an activity fee. This is a course/class fee.

Tag Day is optional. 100% optional.
I am glad to see Spring Trip is optional, because it is.

Tiny Tots-There should be serially numbered tickets with the money going into a school account, NOT the Boosters. Students are not to be excused from a class for a fundraiser. Don't know how you are doing this.

The choral director is accepting and collecting donations for the Boosters. Teachers are supposed to stay out of collecting money for parents. That is their problem.
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You might as well quit wasting your time trolling because they are all getting posted and they are all getting turned in to Gatehouse if necessary.

So Co Orchestra.

Spring trip is indeed optional. Thank you.

Really glad to see that chaperone costs are covered. They should be. I fail to see why chaperones should be paying for anything but meals that everybody else has to pay for on the trips. They are helping out the school system. Why should they have to pay for that?

I see the course fees are going into a school account. Good. See, is this that difficult?

FARM is very nicely handled.

Fundraising is optional. That includes Tag Day. The new 5810 says any revenue generated by a Booster club that involves students is supposed to run through a school account. Don't know where the Tag Day money is going. A lot of programs have this problem.

No IFA's. I see references regarding crediting students. There is no such thing any more.
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dear troll- Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You might as well quit wasting your time trolling
> because they are all getting posted and they are
> all getting turned in to Gatehouse if necessary.



Unfortunately, by trolling, you are accomplishing nothing but confirming how mentally deranged a lot of the staff and parents are in dealing with this very serious situation.

The other thing constructive you can do is go whine and cry about it with the staff at the school that started all this. If they had handled things appropriately over the years and dealt with the issues that came up properly, things might not have progressed this far. But, they didn't. They treated everything like it was a big joke, and the Supers and Admins stalled around, so here we are!!!!!!!!! You can go complain with them, too.

I already posted Barbara, Jim, and Linda's contact information for tax, regulatory, and foia complaints. Need me to re-post that information? I am sure they would love to hear from you.

Tiny Tots at Soco is not a fundraiser. It's a free concert. Tickets are not taken.

I wouldn't assume it's always a fundraiser at every school.

4H9jC Wrote:
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> Tiny Tots at Soco is not a fundraiser. It's a
> free concert. Tickets are not taken.
>
> I wouldn't assume it's always a fundraiser at
> every school.


Good to know. A lot of them have the money going into what looks like a Booster account. They are selling advance tickets, have it on their budget, etc. Several of the syllabi and other handouts specifically say the money is going into the Booster accounts.

Take your MEDS. A typo. So what.
And I don't have to be nice. I don't care about being nice.
I am tired watching staff and parents being abusive to the families and not doing what they were told.

Lee Band

Pre-season was priced out separately, which was a rare find. This is a school-sponsored activity and the information I was given said all school-sponsored activities are to have the money run through the school, NOT the Boosters. This school transports the kids to Franconia Park for the day. Pre-season is technically optional. I know what the deal is.

Tag Day is optional.

What happens if the student has a private teacher they like and works well for their family that the director does not like? How can a teacher tell somebody that they can't use a particular instructor or they don't get the extra credits? I don't think it is any of their business.

It is mentioned several times that Spring Trip is "expected". There is that ridiculous term again. Spring Trip is 100% COMPLETELY ABSOLUTELY OPTIONAL! You don't have to make any apologies or explanations for not going. It can't be expected, requested, necessary, etc. I think I saw some small Choral groups at other schools that were not a class but rather a specialty activity, and they signed an agreement saying they would commit.
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I think this is wonderful. I had no idea about some of this.

-

We are going to take a very brief pause before finishing up the rest of the schools. This could easily take until the end of the year.

I have posted a redacted copy of a little email from the Deputy I received over Thanksgiving. I took my name off because I want you to focus on the other names on here. All I have been doing is turning in the public records I receive from them BACK to them with comments. Here is the cast of players-

Patty Reed-School Board
Dr. Lockard-The Deputy Superintendent
John Foster-the Division Counsel
Susan Quinn-Chief Operating Officer, FCPS

The School Board (Mrs. Reed and the others) has told these people to clean this mess up. You all created this mess. A lot of the mess is due to people completely ignoring what they were told to do and NOT do. Some of the mess is because the school system should never have gotten themselves into this situation in the first place, some is because people are being belligerent about the changes that the school system is trying to implement under the advice of their attorneys (in order to make them compliant with state and Federal laws as well as school regulations, which Mrs. Reed and the others expect/require them to follow), some of it should be basic common sense or should have been taught long ago in school or church or by their parents to a lot of people. I think Mr. Foster thinks it would be wonderful if everybody followed his advice and the advice of the outside law firm. Ms. Quinn and I had some tense conversations a while back in the Penthouse on Gatehouse about a Booster group and high school that were playing very dangerous games with public records and large public transactions. That situation could have easily cost the school system and the taxpayers six figures in legal bills and fines. She is in charge of Operations and what you are doing falls under her responsibility. You are all wasting a LOT of taxpayer dollars and putting private and funds at tremendous risk by NOT FOLLOWING DIRECTIONS.

A quick summary before we press on-

~501c4's cannot offer people the chance to deduct a donation to them on their taxes.
~Participation in fundraisers cannot be part of a child's grade. It shouldn't be required for a letter, either.
~All fundraisers are completely optional. That means OPTIONAL. You can't refuse a child the chance to go on Spring Trip or do anything else because they didn't participate in fundraisers. If you make the decision to direct fundraising dollars towards an activity, optional or otherwise, that is your problem.
~FCPS fees and all communications regarding them are supposed to be on FCPS letterhead.
~FCPS staff and property are not supposed to be used to help Boosters get money out of parents.
~You were given a template. It has a few problems, but is basically adequate. All you had to do was fill in the blanks. Some people took the liberty of changing it to something they liked better. Who did this? What right did you have to do this? That was a very bad idea. I am sure the FCPS legal team approved that template and wants it followed verbatim. Am I right, Mr. Foster?
~I was told pre-season was technically optional, was an FCPS-sponsored activity, and it was supposed to run through the school accounts. That is what the FAQ's say.
~I don't know what this "travel supplement" that a lot of people have but these trips are not Carnival cruises where you can take excursions. They are school trips, personal expenses like meals are supposed to be covered by the families, trip expenses are supposed to be itemized for the families and paid by them with a school fee, etc.
~I don't care where they are with the transition processes. All trips, spring and otherwise, need to run through the school accounts. Parents, you need to refuse to write those big checks to a volunteer group. RIGHT NOW. Their insurance coverage is very shaky, this isn't their problem, etc. It is already in the regulations and has been there for many, many years that trip money is supposed to run through school accounts. They have been wandering around with this for 3-4 years now. Just say NO. Don't come up with your own forms for these trips. Health, permission, etc. The school holds the liability for these. LET THEM HAVE IT. That is what we pay them to do. They have entire departments to analyze liability, contracts, etc. Don't sign anything committing public funds, Boosters. You don't have the right to do that.
~FCPS/School Board own the uniforms. Rental payments and uniform replacement accounts should also be with the school system, just like the instrument fees always have been. Has anybody ever rented an instrument from a Booster club? Don't think so. The uniforms aren't any different.
~The Fee Notice says only two percussion rental fees can be charged-one per semester. It doesn't say anything about a separate one for Marching Band.
~No child is to be excused from a class for a fundraiser. Extracurricular activities are not to interfere with curricular activities.
~Private lessons can't be required. I think it is probably considered inappropriate for a teacher to deny a child credit for private lessons because they take lessons from someone the teacher doesn't like. That can be called cronyism, steering contracts, conflict of interest, possible kickbacks, etc. Private lessons are an agreement between a parent and the private instructor.
~Volunteers are not supposed to have access to Student ID numbers. It is in the Guidelines.
~Late fees on school fees are not allowed. That is an unauthorized fee. And when the money goes into a Booster bank account, it makes for a nasty fundraiser for them. The school fees desperately need to get into school accounts. Parents-PAY YOUR BILLS ON TIME OR DON'T SIGN YOUR KIDS UP FOR STUFF. You are rude.
~Don't get all high and mighty because you have people pay dues to Booster clubs and then get snotty to other people who want to walk in the door at a concert. You are NOTHING. NOTHING. You are just a group of parents with a very inflated opinion of yourself. You are rude. Any school official who goes along with this should be counseled. These are public performances. This is a classroom setting. This is like only letting people who have donated to the PTA have a seat at back to school night, and making the others stand.


~You need to quit calling payments for goods and services donations/contributions/voluntary payments/requests/expectations/"shouldering your part of the Booster budget"/student dues and all the other ridiculous terms you are coming up with, and then funnel money through a Booster bank account instead of a school account. You are trying to circumvent the new policies and just being dangerous. Quit doing things like charging everybody $40 for Cavalier cards, telling them you know you can't do mandatory fundraising but are going to do it anyway because it is a "necessity" and you all will get your money back when you sell them. This is illegal. Bank robbers think robbing a bank is a "necessity", also. Quit calling payments for school and personal services "donations". They aren't donations. Figure out quid pro quo. It is a Federal law. Quit using the term "voluntary payment/commitment payment", with a due date, payable to the teacher, include things that are not consumables, and then try to weasel your way out of it. This could go on and on. FCPS fees are the ONLY thing that can be charged, collected, and go to collections if need be. Aside from if you are buying a tshirt or something from a Booster club, all payments to Booster clubs must be optional. And if some parent groups are totally over the top and want people to donate huge amounts of money, well that is their problem. Greed and inflated desires have taken a lot of people down. Don't let them bully you behind the scenes. You should not be writing $150+ checks to Booster clubs any more for things like camps, pre-season, travel supplements, etc. Those payments are public funds. Those transactions are public transactions. Because they are all for school-sponsored activities. In spite of the problems the school system has handling money, public records and accounts are a very valuable tool. Anybody can look at them, which can prevent and/or catch a lot of problems. Don't let a Booster club take away your rights. They are trying to portray a false sense of security. A Booster club bank account is NOT a secure place. Neither is a school account, but the insurance is a lot better, and the records are easily obtained. I have dealt with both systems. I know. When people don't want to share records with a person they have taken money from, it is usually NOT for a good reason. I was right. Numerous times.

*************Now we are going to have a chat about The Troll. Hundreds of you have managed to read all the information in spite of The Troll. The Troll is quite possibly a former Booster and quite possibly a former officer in my old Booster group. The one who created a real headache for the school system. Remember, the one who made access to public records a problem, set the school system up for six figures in legal bills, and played games with $100,000+ county transactions, then didn't treat families right? Yeh, THAT group. The Troll obviously has some major psychological issues. So do several other members of this Booster club. I am very familiar with their tactics. With his/her endless drivel and nonsensical posts, he/she is displaying exactly why you DON'T want to give money to Booster clubs, particularly large amounts.

Now we are going to give The Troll a change to display their mental illness, discouraging you from making donations to Booster clubs, before we move on to more reports..................
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I heard that Madison band students are getting out of class in December for some kind of little kids concert or show that has an entrance fee.

Wasn't sure if a community- focused event is also under the restrictions about class absences for raising money. If it is, how can they do this?

Yes, it was a typo. Should have been CHANCE. And you did a great job of reinforcing our understanding of your severe psychological disorder.

More on Woodson Band. They fixed their website. Unfortunately, for them.

Private lessons can't be required. I know they really need them. You can't deny somebody a class based solely on whether they can afford private lessons.

Spring trip is 100% optional. It can't be required or expected (I really hate that word) for a class, and I do believe that includes Jazz Band, because that is a course. SPRING TRIP IS OPTIONAL. SPRING TRIP IS OPTIONAL. SPRING TRIP IS OPTIONAL. We already went through this with some other programs. Deal with it.

Tag Day is optional.

Car washes and fruit sales are also optional.

In addition to the marching fee that the parents were ordered to pay to the Boosters, which included the four Cavalier cards that they HAD to buy and then sell to get their money back because this was a "necessity" so this was more important than following school system policy and state law, and also included a $10 DVD that they also didn't have to buy which is also a fundraiser for Boosters, parents were also ordered to pay $90 to the Boosters if their child was in regular Band class, in addition to the $30 FCPS class fee. Can't do this. Can't you people read? Can't you hear? ALL PARENTS ARE OWED A REFUND ON THIS AND PROBABLY A GOOD PORTION OF THE OTHER MARCHING BAND FEE THAT WAS PAID TO BOOSTERS. PARENTS, YOU HAVE RIGHTS. YOU ARE BEING ABUSED.

Now the big question is, who gets the "$1 fine" that kids have to pay if they leave an instrument out? It can only go to one of three places-

*School-this is not an approved FCPS fee.
*Boosters-since when are students ordered to pay money to a non-profit because they messed up?
*Somebody's pocket-!.

It's not the amount, it's the principle.

WHERE HAS THIS $1 BEEN GOING?
Attachments:

Question # 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heard that Madison band students are getting out
> of class in December for some kind of little kids
> concert or show that has an entrance fee.
>
> Wasn't sure if a community- focused event is also
> under the restrictions about class absences for
> raising money. If it is, how can they do this?

Tiny Tots was reported to Gatehouse earlier on. This school, along with others, was brought up. Tiny Tots is a fundraiser. For a Booster club, right now. Children are not to be excused from classes for fundraisers. Any performance of students involving a fee is supposed to have serially numbered tickets, and the money is supposed to go into a school account. Any activity involving students and staff and school property is supposed to be school-sponsored. Money from school-sponsored activities is supposed to be in school accounts. Any revenue generated by a Booster club involving students is supposed to be in school accounts.

Kids are supposed to be in their classes during the school day. They have instructional hours to meet. They aren't supposed to have to make up tests because they are doing a fundraiser. I don't think the school system is probably supposed to be using taxpayer funded time and students who are supposed to be in class to offer a "community event". They don't have to provide "community events". They are supposed to be providing instructional hours.

I would say this is completely totally messed up.

I am just reading the directions.

Oh, and even if they wanted to do a community event, that is an extracurricular activity. Extracurricular activities are not supposed to interfere with instructional programs. That is a State law. And if they are pulled out of class for a "community event", that is interfering with the instructional program.

Kids aren't supposed to miss an AP Physics class because somebody wants to raise money or have a "community event". Got it?

More Woodson Band funny money. The fee limit in Jazz Band is $50. Woodson is charging $120.

Parents, you have rights. You are being abused. Start asking questions. I think you are probably going to strike out at the Booster and teacher level, which means you go to the principal and then your Superintendent. And if you strike out there, Dr. Lockard is next, then Dr. Garza. If you are to that point, you need to contact your School Board rep. Good luck.

As I pointed out, this is why you don't want to write large checks to Booster clubs. Can you imagine handing over $800 to somebody who does this kind of stuff?

West Springfield Chorus.

All fundraising is optional. If somebody made the decision to not collect class fees, that is their problem. Just because certain people or a certain person decided to not collect class fees, that doesn't mean children or parents have to fundraise. You can't tell them they have to do group or individual fundraisers or make a donation.

Such is life.....Oh well. You had the chance to charge a fee.
Attachments:

West Springfield Orchestra.

Tag Day is optional. All fundraisers are optional.
No IFA's.
I thought the FARM kids all had a fee waiver this year.
Trip money is being sent to school account-wonderful.

Noticed the chaperone charge of $389. Chaperones don't have to pay anything. Many schools incorporate the cost of the chaperones into the student trip price. Some have special fundraisers to cover these expenses, but really the cost can easily be incorporated into the student price. Parents don't have to pay because they are helping out the school system. Their presence is required under school regulations. They are as much a part of the trip cost as the teachers and the buses. By paying their way, more parents can volunteer to help out.
Attachments:

I was told pre-season was technically optional and was supposed to be priced out separately.
Course fee of $50 and Marching Fee of $300 (the max) to school is noted.
The $9000 to be put into a school account for Uniform Reserve is noted. Good. Some schools are specifying a specific amount per child, some a certain gross amount. I don't know the policy on that.

Trip money is going to school. Wonderful.

Did not see any Booster information, so the usual-

all fundraising is optional, including Tag Day.
No IFA's.
No Booster "assessments, your fair share of our budget, voluntary payments that are due right now or we won't survive, mandatory donations, necessities", and all the other bogus wishy-washy terms people are using to bully around the parents. You know who you are...........
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We are really going to miss The Troll when they get admitted to a psych hospital. I think they are getting close...............They are really flipping out. DON'T WRITE ANY BIG CHECKS TO BOOSTERS.

senza sordino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> West Springfield Chorus.
>
> All fundraising is optional. If somebody made the
> decision to not collect class fees, that is their
> problem. Just because certain people or a certain
> person decided to not collect class fees, that
> doesn't mean children or parents have to
> fundraise. You can't tell them they have to do
> group or individual fundraisers or make a
> donation.
>
> Such is life.....Oh well. You had the chance to
> charge a fee.


Anybody at WSHS care to explain how giving away a school trip to the person who sells the most pies and giving kids iPads as raffle prizes doesn't violate the no IFA policy?

Fort Hunt Band.

You can't require a kid to operate the valves of a French horn with their left hand. What about the students who are RIGHT HANDED? Parents - don't write a check! And I've had enough of these wishy-washy terms. When you say a student needs a written hall pass to "use" the bathroom, what do you really mean? Students, don't let them bully you into thinking you have to.

I've talked with Gatehouse on this one and it should be clear.

Now here's an interesting one about spring trip rooming lists. You can't confine a student to a room after curfew. If they need vending, they have the right to go and do it. You're going to find a lot of red tape around the taping of doors.

Looks like The Troll will soon be too deranged to take their meda.

By the way BARB I challenge you to try to play a French Horn right handed.

I played the violin and am a competent musician. Don't tell ME you can't play the French horn with your right hand! Maybe the area band directors just need to readjust their expectations a bit.

We had lots of fun with Fort Hunt. They kept adding punctuation in on the same page as the FCPS eduspeak and had due dates for the edits, just added them in automatically, tried to tell me they were optional, but could not show me anything saying that, etc. etc. More arguments with Gatehouse. More foot stomping.


Congratulations, Fort Hunt Band parents, on NOT signing the Magna Carta. That is a very wise move. Nothing personal, but the Magna Carta is fraught with problems that nobody wanted to listen to. Get out of the school accounting business. Pull your records frequently and go over every single line. Ask questions. Demand answers. It will be fine.

Don't know if you can make deodorant mandatory or not and how it calculates out with the consumables. Maybe add an extra class to the schedule so the students don't have to sit so close.

If you are going to leave it up to optional dues and donations to fund certain things that the families can well afford to pay for, oh well. I would just dump it on the families. One less thing to deal with.
Saw the $7000 set aside for mascot grooming. Good but seems low.
Your fees seem low considering all the rich white people at your school and the aspirations that usually accompany that.

TAG day and all fundraisers are optional.

Barb, you have jumped the shark. Take a look at a french horn and tell us, please, just how one could play it right-handed. One hand goes in the bell and the other operates the valves.

Just like your violin - you can't just reverse the strings a la Hendrix and expect things to work properly without taking the top off, re-gluing the bass bar to the other side, and relocating the sound post.

You don't come across as a competent musician.

Where's the Fort Hunt document?

QUIT WHINING. You people keep attacking me I'm just the messenger. I have every right to request this information. It is public record and YOUR tax dollars pay for it.

Take your meds!

>We had lots of fun with Fort Hunt.


Bravo, sir! (Or madam.) You have won the internet.

My God, no wonder you people had such a hard time keeping track of the money, the stories, and a trip payment spreadsheet. You were all schizophrenic. I knew it.

I don't put too much stock in people who break the law and bully parents and children around. There is a lot of that going on out there from what I am seeing.

Examples-

"You aren't good enough. Step aside and wait for the rest of us."
"We/I don't care what we/I was told to do. You are going to give us/me money (that we/I aren't/am not entitled to) right now or I/we won't let your child take a class or go on a school trip. It's a 'necessity'."
"We don't care about the state laws or school regulations".
"We just aren't going to tell people what their rights are because then we will have to follow the rules. If they are ignorant, that is their problem."
"What I/we want to do is more important than treating people appropriately."
"If you expect us to follow school regulations, you hate teachers and music education."
"If I just don't look at the payment spreadsheet then it isn't my problem and I don't have to assume any responsibility for it."

Sound familiar?

Lake Braddock Orchestra parents-are you getting ready to be abused tonight by a bunch of people who think because they gave $40 to a Booster club (that has nothing to do with the school system) they are better than you and think they can control your access to a public school concert?

Don't put up with it.

You are displaying severe Flight of Ideas.

You managed that one without a typo. Usually, when you're irked, the keystrokes fall a little faster than andante.

I do not think that you realize that what you are doing is hurting more than it is helping anyone. You have caused many problems for EVERYONE in the music departments in Fairfax County, and deprived our students of opportunities that could have benefited them greatly. Good job.

I do not think that you realize that what you are doing is hurting more than it is helping anyone. You have caused many problems for EVERYONE in the music departments in Fairfax County, and deprived our students of opportunities that could have benefited them greatly. Good job.

You are a jerk for doing this and I hope you know that you have an awful reputation within Fairfax County.

What has been going on was in violation of state laws, Federal laws, and school regulations. Why do you all have such a problem with following the laws and school regulations? Would you like to elaborate?

Staff-Do you teach your students to violate the laws and school regulations, also? They have to sign something every year saying they won't. When they whine about following them, what do you say to them?

And the staff also sign something. It is called their license to teach and administer schools, which requires them to follow laws and regulations pertaining to their profession. You also signed a contract with FCPS, and I would bet there is a clause in there about following all school regulations.

Parents, do you teach your children to obey the laws and school regulations, or to break them aggressively and frequently? Do you encourage them to rob banks and shoplift? Because sending out bills for large sums of money that you are not entitled to, pestering parents to pay up, maybe sending them to collections are all really bad ideas when you don't have the right to send the bills out in the first place.

No sympathy.

I also heard orange is the new black.
Attachments:

You created your own problems, NOT somebody else. Now act like adults and fix them.

Barb - you need to acquaint yourself with a couple legal terms:
• Defamation
• Libel
• Slander
• Slander per se

Specifically you need to understand that when you accuse people (volunteers for, or paid employees of, FCPS) breaking a law - you had better have facts to back it up, not just you opinions. In several instances you stated your opinions; you outright claimed people were "breaking the law". But you have made accusations without publishing any facts, without stating what law was broken. (This is bad for you.) Why do you think authors use words like "allegedly" and "the accused" but never say until after trial/conviction, "he/she committed" or "the criminal".

A slander per se claim does not require that the plaintiff prove special damages (monetary loss) all that has to be proved was it was you*, and the statement was of a legally qualifying nature such as:
• imputing criminal conduct to the plaintiff
• any harmful statement about the plaintiff's profession or business (which in VA by case precedent includes volunteer positions held)

But when you talk about “fingering” people, whether by name directly or by reference such that any reasonable person could identify the accused in your statements you had better be sure your ducks are in a row, legally speaking. I know you’ve said you’ve “read” the law, but unless you’ve consulted with an attorney, you’d better be careful just how you publicly hang people out to dry, so to speak.

* This is easily done in today’s world of computer forensics. Session logs, IP logs, ISP data, etc. can easily be used to identify not only the poster of each post but the device they used to do it. This is easily done. What if you only post from Starbucks on the free WiFi? And never the same Starbucks twice! Not a problem – everyone leaves a digital trail via their computer, iPad, cell phone pings, credit/debit card use, etc., etc. Just ask Paula Broadwell, and former Gen. Petraeus.

Note that violation of FCPS published policy is not a violation of the law. So be very clear. When you accuse people of “violating the law” (a crime) and what you mean is they didn’t follow FCPS or Virginia DOE policy (not a crime unless coded as such by the state legislature) you are committing slander per se.

There is also such a thing as FOIA Abuse. It would generally be up to the county/FCPS to bring that claim, however if ANY citizen feels you are using FOIA to directly harass them, they could very well bring a claim against you … personally, or with the help of their organization (e.g.: Boosters, PTA, a willing law firm).

Specifically, it is defined as using the Freedom of Information Act laws as a weapon to harass, bully, hector or intimidate. Note that the cause doesn’t matter. If you use FOIA in a constructive way, fine. But your repeated threats to “finger” people would be, in Virginia, sufficient to demonstrate harassment and intimidation. Do some case research and you’ll find which judges in District and Circuit court would agree. This is especially true if you make threats to harm someone’s status, position, career, etc. (which you have) and then follow up with slanderous statements.

See where this is going? Unless you are well funded for your defense, chose your words carefully and perhaps tone down the rhetoric just a notch or two. Be very careful who you “finger” come January and how. You are putting your own crusade for change at risk as well as your own finances (in Virginia, a judgment against you can be used to place a lien on your property, bank accounts, etc.)

Dear Warning----- Don't try to bully me around. I am sick and tired of people who do that in order to take advantage of people, particularly parents and children.

Extorting and demanding money that you are not entitled to from people is against the law. Yeh! Really. It is! Anybody can tell you that.

Not following state laws means YOU BROKE THE LAW. Got it? Demanding fees that are not approved by the school system, not returning excess money collected for consumables or a school trip, sending out a bill for $250 to a bunch of parents when you don't have the right to do so, etc.-all are violations of state laws. THEY ARE! These are the people who stand to lose their savings and their homes and their bank accounts. I haven't done any of this. I pitched a fit to get the money out of Booster accounts and into school accounts to prevent exactly that, because the school system was clearly trying to transfer their liability to the parents. It was right there on the MOU. I didn't write the MOU. Who did? I also didn't write the insurance policies that would have left the Booster clubs and parents high and dry. I read them. Did anybody else? I don't think so. Did anybody else read the Government Data laws and the computer privacy laws and think about how they apply to these helpless children and naïve parents? I don't think so. I didn't write those. I just asked why they weren't being followed. I have a right to do that. Didn't anybody else think this through? There were multiple lawyers, CPA's, etc. looking over these documents. It was all right there in plain English.

Pulling public records, posting them to notify the parents so they know what their rights are, commenting on them, and reporting problems to the public officials who are responsible for what is in them is a totally appropriate thing to do. It isn't harassment. I think it is very constructive. So do a lot of other people. Particularly people with children in the school system. They are very, very glad somebody is making an effort to clean this up.

If the school system could be counted on to fix things promptly instead of brushing them under the rug there wouldn't have to be a thread going on this to notify the citizens. They can't be counted on, they made that crystal clear to me and many others, multiple times, and that is not my fault. It is theirs. I personally gave them numerous opportunities to address the original problems four years ago. They chose to wander around in a daze. They are still in a daze. That is their fault, not mine. I continue to pay their salaries while they are in this daze. It is the people who have been doing things they aren't supposed to be doing that don't think this is constructive. Quit doing things you aren't supposed to be doing and DO the things you are supposed to be doing if you don't like it. I didn't put these things in public records and present them to citizens. I just found them. I have no sympathy.

Not following school regulations is grounds for losing a professional license. The school regulations are based off of state laws and are binding. I didn't write the licensure or school regulations. READ THEM.

You can FOIA as much as you want in Virginia and there is nothing anybody can do about it. That was already struck down. I followed the attempt. I didn't write FOIA.

I haven't slandered anybody. I haven't done anything I wasn't supposed to be doing. When you do things you aren't supposed to be doing YOU ARE DOING THINGS YOU AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. People have the right to talk about that. Get over it. That doesn't give you the right to bully around the victims or the person who figures it out and reports it so that you can keep on doing what you aren't supposed to be doing. That seems to be a very common tactic. Don't blame me for your problems in dealing with accountability for your actions.

There have been a lot of people slandering and threatening and stonewalling and insulting ME. For years. Some also stole from me and lied to me. Many, many people tried to take away my rights as a citizen. And that includes a few lawyers and multiple school officials, as well as parents. Want me to name some names? A lot of them are on the FOIA denials and in multiple written conversations. It is public record. One person abused my child and made her cry. That is also in the public records. I was yelled at and ridiculed by school staff and totally left in the lurch. More than once. Did any of these people ever apologize to me? NOT A SINGLE ONE. ZIP. ZERO. There was one parent who tried to, I will give her credit for that. I seriously doubted the sincerity. A lawyer tried to tell me I couldn't freely share public records. I have that in writing and it is also in the public records. Who do they think they are? I have also been told at least three times I didn't pay my bills on time. I certainly did, and I presented the proof. No problem. It happens. People said they would get back to me and never did. Multiple times.

I have also asked to see correct, current public records, and been shown anything but. That is not my problem. Don't go telling me you didn't charge a fee when your name is on a letter asking for $300+. Don't go telling me you didn't hand out a syllabus when you did. I was sent a packet of information, I noticed the website was different, and wouldn't you know I was given the wrong stuff. Don't go charging room service to a county credit card and not bring back a correct receipt and let a citizen find it six months later. Don't go telling families that it is not allowed to charge additional fees and then in the very next sentence say it is a necessity and do exactly that. I could go on and on about this. I think I have been. It's not my fault.

I haven't sent somebody a bogus bill for $200, made fake entries on a payment spreadsheet, not processed money for a $100,000+ school trip properly and try to walk away from my responsibilities, ignored multiple school regulations, etc. etc. etc.

Whoever you are, you are barking up the wrong tree. Don't talk down to me. You try walking in my shoes for a while. I will do anything I want to in January and any other month of the year.

Grow up and assume responsibility for your actions, people. And get the lead out. Parents, you have rights. Exercise them. NOW.

"Moving forward", you can "expect" to see me "requesting" more reports. It is a "necessity". This can be fixed.

Dear Warned-

We are going to play a little game with your little "alleged" word.

Sforzando allegedly was denied alleged public records at least 10 alleged times by at least 5 alleged school personnel. Sforzando allegedly has several of these requests writing. These allegedly could have cost the school system almost $50,000 in fines plus legal fees and lots of allegedly really BAD PRESS. There are allegedly years of alleged public records allegedly sitting in spare closets, basements, and garages all over the county that are allegedly still subject to the Public Records Act, and technically somebody could ask to see a lot of those. Their name might be Fortississimo or Presto. Sforzando and these other people allegedly think the school system and some Booster clubs are allegedly really lucky.

Sforzando allegedly spent well over two years watching people allegedly trying to straighten this out, only to find out that the people who were allegedly supposed to be allegedly fixing this were allegedly going to Morton's for dinner, allegedly going golfing, allegedly ordering and allegedly partaking of catered lunches, allegedly ordering presents and flowers galore, allegedly going out to allegedly fancy restaurants all over the country, all using alleged public funds, and allegedly having a lot of fun with the people who were allegedly not following alleged school guidelines developed off of alleged state laws on alleged six figure transactions.

Sforzando has allegedly also spent two more years allegedly watching a lot of people make alleged empty promises and stagger around making decisions and taking corrective action, while they were allegedly still going to Morton's and allegedly going golfing, etc.

Why don't you try asking somebody who got a $200 refund how allegedly non-constructive this is? My guess is they don't think it is alleged harassment at all. They are probably allegedly pretty darn glad somebody is allegedly demanding this situation be fixed once and for all because allegedly somebody has to do it and nobody else allegedly has a clue what to do. Including a lot of staff.

Like I said. The people who think this is harassment and not constructive are probably the ones who have been ignoring state laws and school regulations and taking advantage of families. They seem to be very proud of themselves.

Think twice before you start to bully me and scare me any more. I don't write the state laws, the Federal laws, or the school regulations. You can do whatever you want with public records. Want me to post quotes from somebody who tried to tell me otherwise? I just FOIA and post and turn in problems.

Got it?

I don't know what your "January" scare is about. Happy New Year!

BAD PRESS. They were allegedly supposed to find out this were allegedly resto. Sforzando all using allegedly fancy really lucky.

Sforzando has to Morton's and technically lucky.

Sforzando allegedly watching allegedly this is allegedly demanding golfing, etc.

Why don't think twice been ignoring a lot of people whateveral of those. The people allegedly going this situation be fixed off of families. Their name mighten this were allegedly supposed to play a lot of those. They are is the school guidelines.

I don't know what to be very promises and taking a lot of families. The people making a lot of the ones who this situations and stagger around make allegedly has to do what to do whatever your "January" scare me any more years allegedly demanding a lot of stagger around how allegedly demanding a lot of staff.

Like I said. They were allegedly has to do. Including advantage of people making corrective the stagger around making state laws, they were allegedly still going somebody who this is harassment.

These obviously should have read "FCPS DOES have the right to demand OUR documents on OUR trips and will get back to you within 12 working days". Oops.

This is what could have cost the taxpayers $10,000. There's more!

The rest is history.

Find somebody else to pick on and something else to whine about, everybody.

And The Trumpet Shall Sound.
Attachments:

Marshall Band parents!!!!!!!!!! Your $150 voluntary commitment payment for marching band wasn't a commitment payment as described. It was optional. Ask for a refund if you want it.

REBAND MARFUND SHALL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bant was optional. Marching band paymentarefund
> pary commitment payments!!!!!!! You was described.
> Marshall Band it.Marching bant if your $150 volund
> payment a commitment for a rent for marshall Band
> wasn't itment a commitment a commitment for $150
> volunt parching band parching band was optional.
> It was described. Marching band if your $150
> voluntary commitment as described. Ask for a
> commitment for marching bant parshall Band wasn't
> wand was described. Ask for marshall Band
> itments!!!!! You was de

> Marshall Band parents!!!!!!!!!! Your $150
> voluntary commitment payment for marching band
> wasn't a commitment payment as described. It was
> optional. Ask for a refund if you want it.

> > Marshall Band parents!!!!!!!!!! Your $150
> > voluntary commitment payment for marching band
> > wasn't a commitment payment as described. It
> was
> > optional. Ask for a refund if you want it.

> > Marshall Band parents!!!!!!!!!! Your $150
> > voluntary commitment payment for marching band
> > wasn't a commitment payment as described. It
> was
> > optional. Ask for a refund if you want it...

> > > Marshall Band parents!!!!!!!!!! Your $150
> > > voluntary commitment payment for marching
> band
> > > wasn't a commitment payment as described. It
> > was
> > > optional. Ask for a refund if you want it.....

> > > > Marshall Band parents!!!!!!!!!! Your $150
> > > > voluntary commitment payment for marching
> > band
> > > > wasn't a commitment payment as described.
> It
> > > was
> > > > optional. Ask for a refund if you want
> it......

-Marshall Band parents!!!!!!!!!! Your $150
voluntary commitment payment for marching band
wasn't a commitment payment as described. It
was optional. Ask for a refund if you want it.

-Marshall Band parents!!!!!!!!!! Your $150
voluntary commitment payment for marching band
wasn't a commitment payment as described. It
was optional. Ask for a refund if you want it.

**
> -Marshall Band parents!!!!!!!!!! Your $150
> voluntary commitment payment for marching band
> wasn't a commitment payment as described. It
> was optional. Ask for a refund if you want it.

#
> > -Marshall Band parents!!!!!!!!!! Your $150
> > voluntary commitment payment for marching band
> > wasn't a commitment payment as described. It
> > was optional. Ask for a refund if you want it.

Seriously!
Attachments:

Marshall Band parents! You didn't have a commitment payment due as clearly indicated on your commitment form, according to the school system. I gave the DCCO a deadline to clarify whether this was optional or required with the understanding that no response meant it was optional. The deadline has passed.

You can't be sent a bill for instruments anyway. Guard equipment I don't know about.

You have the right to either a partial or full refund if you paid this.

The due date for the commitment payment that didn't really exist was June 6th.

They are also claiming there wasn't any fee for regular Band, so if you were charged something, you will have to figure that one out.
Attachments:

-------------------------------------------------------
> Marshall Band parents! You didn't have a
> commitment payment due as clearly indicated on
> your commitment form, according to the school
> system. I gave the DCCO a deadline to clarify
> whether this was optional or required with the
> understanding that no response meant it was
> optional. The deadline has passed.
>
> You can't be sent a bill for instruments anyway.
> Guard equipment I don't know about.
>
> You have the right to either a partial or full
> refund if you paid this..
>
> The due date for the commitment payment that
> didn't really exist was June 6th.
>
> They are also claiming there wasn't any fee for
> regular Band, so if you were charged something,
> you will have to figure that one out.
Attachments:

-------------------------------------------------------
> Marshall Band parents! You didn't have a
> commitment payment due as clearly indicated on
> your commitment form, according to the school
> system. I gave the DCCO a deadline to clarify
> whether this was optional or required with the
> understanding that no response meant it was
> optional. The deadline has passed.
>
> You can't be sent a bill for instruments anyway.
> Guard equipment I don't know about.
>
> You have the right to either a partial or full
> refund if you paid this.
>
> The due date for the commitment payment that
> didn't really exist was June 6th.
>
> They are also claiming there wasn't any fee for
> regular Band, so if you were charged something,
> you will have to figure that one out...
Attachments:

-------------------------------------------------------
> Marshall Band parents! You didn't have a
> commitment payment due as clearly indicated on
> your commitment form, according to the school
> system. I gave the DCCO a deadline to clarify
> whether this was optional or required with the
> understanding that no response meant it was
> optional. The deadline has passed.
>
> You can't be sent a bill for instruments anyway.
> Guard equipment I don't know about.
>
> You have the right to either a partial or full
> refund if you paid this.
>
> The due date for the commitment payment that
> didn't really exist was June 6th.
>
> They are also claiming there wasn't any fee for
> regular Band, so if you were charged something,
> you will have to figure that one out....
Attachments:

These obviously should have read "FCPS DOES have the right to demand OUR documents on OUR trips and will get back to you within 12 working days".
Oops. This is what could have cost the taxpayers $10,000. There's more!

The rest is history.

Find somebody else to pick on and something else to whine about, everybody.

And The Trumpet Shall Sound.
Attachments:

-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Warned-
>
> We are going to play a little game with your
> little "alleged" word.
>
> Sforzando allegedly was denied alleged public
> records at least 10 alleged times by at least 5
> alleged school personnel. Sforzando allegedly has
> several of these requests writing. These allegedly
> could have cost the school system almost $50,000
> in fines plus legal fees and lots of allegedly
> really BAD PRESS. There are allegedly years of
> alleged public records allegedly sitting in spare
> closets, basements, and garages all over the
> county that are allegedly still subject to the
> Public Records Act, and technically somebody could
> ask to see a lot of those. Their name might be
> Fortississimo or Presto. Sforzando and these other
> people allegedly think the school system and some
> Booster clubs are allegedly really lucky.
>
> Sforzando allegedly spent well over two years
> watching people allegedly trying to straighten
> this out, only to find out that the people who
> were allegedly supposed to be allegedly fixing
> this were allegedly going to Morton's for dinner,
> allegedly going golfing, allegedly ordering and
> allegedly partaking of catered lunches, allegedly
> ordering presents and flowers galore, allegedly
> going out to allegedly fancy restaurants all over
> the country, all using alleged public funds, and
> allegedly having a lot of fun with the people who
> were allegedly not following alleged school
> guidelines developed off of alleged state laws on
> alleged six figure transactions.
>
> Sforzando has allegedly also spent two more years
> allegedly watching a lot of people make alleged
> empty promises and stagger around making decisions
> and taking corrective action, while they were
> allegedly still going to Morton's and allegedly
> going golfing, etc.
>
> Why don't you try asking somebody who got a $200
> refund how allegedly non-constructive this is? My
> guess is they don't think it is alleged harassment
> at all. They are probably allegedly pretty darn
> glad somebody is allegedly demanding this
> situation be fixed once and for all because
> allegedly somebody has to do it and nobody else
> allegedly has a clue what to do. Including a lot
> of staff.
>
> Like I said. The people who think this is
> harassment and not constructive are probably the
> ones who have been ignoring state laws and school
> regulations and taking advantage of families. They
> seem to be very proud of themselves.
>
> Think twice before you start to bully me and scare
> me any more. I don't write the state laws, the
> Federal laws, or the school regulations. You can
> do whatever you want with public records. Want me
> to post quotes from somebody who tried to tell me
> otherwise? I just FOIA and post and turn in
> problems.
>
> Got it?
>
> I don't know what your "January" scare is about.
> Happy New Year!

Dear Warning-

Don't go poo-pooing the school regulations, buddy.

Administrators and teachers hold licenses that are dependent on them following them. Anybody can file a complaint against a licensed educator/administrator, so it pays to follow them. They are also required to manage money entrusted to them responsibly. I could write a book on that and it would probably be a Best Seller.

If you don't like these regulations, take it up with anybody but me. I didn't write them.
Attachments:

-------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Warning--
>
> Don't go poo-pooing the school regulations, buddy.
>
>
> Administrators and teachers hold licenses that are
> dependent on them following them. Anybody can file
> a complaint against a licensed
> educator/administrator, so it pays to follow them.
> They are also required to manage money entrusted
> to them responsibly. I could write a book on that
> and it would probably be a Best Seller.
>
> If you don't like these regulations, take it up
> with anybody but me. I didn't write them.
Attachments:

Madison Band Percussion parents-

You are being charged three times for percussion equipment fee when the Fee Notice says it can only be charged twice. It isn't the amount, it is the principle. I have not seen any other schools doing this unless I overlooked it. One even mentioned that it was not allowed to charge an extra percussion fee for Marching Band and that was why it wasn't being done.

The fee notice is attached. It says that no other fees may be charged unless authorized by the fee notice. This looks to be an unauthorized fee. Which means, you need to call Mr. Merrell at 703-319-2313 and ask what is going on unless somebody has already filled you in. If you paid this you probably are entitled to a refund. If you didn't pay it yet, DON'T.

This was turned in to Gatehouse and the School Board a while back.
Attachments:

> Madison Band Percussion parents-
>
> You are being charged three times for percussion
> equipment fee when the Fee Notice says it can only
> be charged twice. It isn't the amount, it is the
> principle. I have not seen any other schools doing
> this unless I overlooked it. One even mentioned
> that it was not allowed to charge an extra
> percussion fee for Marching Band and that was why
> it wasn't being done..
>
> The fee notice is attached. It says that no other
> fees may be charged unless authorized by the fee
> notice. This looks to be an unauthorized fee.
> Which means, you need to call Mr. Merrell at
> 703-319-2313 and ask what is going on unless
> somebody has already filled you in. If you paid
> this you probably are entitled to a refund. If you
> didn't pay it yet, DON'T.
>
> This was turned in to Gatehouse and the School
> Board a while back.
Attachments:

fermata Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am still awaiting some information.
>
> No multiple marcher 10% discounts are allowed on
> FCPS fees. This is an FCPS course. No discounts
> was already clarified with the Comptroller. The
> price is the price and it is set by the Fee
> Notice.
>
> The separate summer camp fee is noted.
>
> The Marching fee is maxed out.
>
> Any uniform items that the students have to
> replace should have the money go to the school.
> Those items are owned by the School Board, NOT the
> parent group.
>
> Anybody besides staff messing with student ID's?



Oh, South County Band. Oh dear. Just got the commitment form. Anybody care to explain why you are running $250-$300 per student for Marching Band through Booster accounts? Parents, those checks are supposed to be written to the school system and run through school accounts. DON'T give these people this kind of money. Whatever you do, do NOT give them money for your Spring Trip.

Any reason the checks are being made out to the SCHS Band and the Boosters are supposedly keeping the non-refundable portion, etc.? Parents-you are NOT the Band. ARE YOU CALLING YOURSELVES THAT???????? You are an independent non-profit. You are nothing but a group of volunteers. Other checks like the instrument rental are made out to SCHS. Just SCHS. WHERE IS ALL THIS MONEY GOING? Did you just get mixed up when the commitment form was made up and the money is actually going into a school account? The checks made out to another school with XYZ School Band went into a school account. I guess I am supposed to do all the "alleged" stuff right about now. I allege that this is probably completely totally ENTIRELY screwed up.

I had to made a special additional request to see the commitment form! It wasn't with the original documents when I asked to see registration forms, syllabi, etc.! Whose form is this? The Band's/school's or the Boosters'? God only knows. Parents are signing permission for their child(ren) to participate in a school class, NOT a Booster activity. Why are we talking about a Booster Refund and Cancellation policy?????????????????????????

No wonder there are people threatening and warning me.

Another one for the Deputy and the School Board. I think we are up to about 15+ now. I have another 8 or 9 schools to go.
Attachments:

If this is what the records look like in CHARMS, and Boosters have access to this information, they might have access to your FARM status. The lady I talked with in Richmond said that the school system has to have very specific written permission to do that. The consent to share you sign doesn't cover for that. That only covers staff. Boosters aren't staff under their definitions. The phone number is 1-804-225-2074.

Unless she changed her mind............
Attachments:

^^^^^^^^attention FARM families Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If this is what the records look like in CHARMS,
> and Boosters have access to this information, they
> might have access to your FARM status. The lady I
> talked with in Richmond said that the school
> system has to have very specific written
> permission to do that. The consent to share you
> sign doesn't cover for that. That only covers
> staff. Boosters aren't staff under their
> definitions. The phone number is 1-804-225-2074.
>
> Unless she changed her mind............

Used the wrong attachment. Use this one instead.
Attachments:

-------------------------------------------------------
> > Madison Band Percussion parents---
> >
> > You are being charged three times for
> percussion
> > equipment fee when the Fee Notice says it can
> only
> > be charged twice. It isn't the amount, it is
> the
> > principle. I have not seen any other schools
> doing
> > this unless I overlooked it. One even mentioned
> > that it was not allowed to charge an extra
> > percussion fee for Marching Band and that was
> why
> > it wasn't being done..
> >
> > The fee notice is attached. It says that no
> other
> > fees may be charged unless authorized by the
> fee
> > notice. This looks to be an unauthorized fee.
> > Which means, you need to call Mr. Merrell at
> > 703-319-2313 and ask what is going on unless
> > somebody has already filled you in. If you paid
> > this you probably are entitled to a refund. If
> you
> > didn't pay it yet, DON'T.
> >
> > This was turned in to Gatehouse and the School
> > Board a while back.
Attachments:

Barbara,

You recently posted about being up to 15+ schools with some type of reportable offense, with 8 or 9 to go. That is nearly every high school in the county. It is by far the norm that when you look at a program, you find some offense that you consider criminal. The teachers of these programs run the gamut. Some are male, some are female. Some are in their first years of teaching, some have been in the profession for decades. Some have spent their entire career in FCPS, some have taught in multiple school systems before coming to FCPS. Some have only ever been teachers, some had a career before teaching. Some still have quite a bit of growth needed, some are respected as among the best in the country. With each of them, every one of them, you've found them to be involved in what you consider criminal activity. In most cases, you've also alluded to them involving an inner-ring of booster parents. Essentially, a crime ring.

Do you think it is circumstance that FCPS has exclusively hired criminals to run its high school music programs? Do you think it is something intrinsic about the job that tempts them into a life of crime? Do you think the music teaching profession is tempting for those with criminal tendencies?

I'd really like to know your thoughts on what is causing this epidemic.

I didn't say there was anything criminal going on (right now, that is). Just a lot of stuff that doesn't match up with what people were told to do. That is what is getting turned in, for the most part. And I think people are trying to retain control at the level it has been rather than relinquish it, thinking that keeping the information out of the public records will help things to be run better or because they like having this kind of control. Exactly why is up to them. That creates huge public records problems and hinders the public's right to access information that they have the right to access and also limits the application of school regulations. Which creates a lot of problems. Like crime. Want me to make a movie on that?

I don't care if they are brand new or seasoned teachers or volunteers. These practices are dictated by the school system and the state, etc. and people have rights. Somebody should have looked at these things before information was sent out to thousands of families-both faculty and Booster information.

If you are doing things like-

-telling kids they can't go on a school spring trip unless they sell fruit -telling people $800 trips are mandatory for a public school class
-telling kids they can't get a letter unless they fundraise
-running public funds through a Booster account when you were told not to
-telling families fundraising is part of the course/mandatory
-coming up with creative terms to try and funnel public funds through Booster accounts instead of going into a school account
-coming up with creative terms to extract money from naïve parents and take advantage of them
-using the name of the school group as your own (such as the parents are not the Band/Chorus/Orchestra issues I am seeing)
-sending parents bills for three school fees instead of two
-altering a template that you were told to just fill in
-sending out bills to families that you don't have the right to (and then don't want to correct things)
-pulling kids out of classes to fundraise for a private corporation
-encouraging tax fraud on bills for school services
-selling $40 of cards to families by including them in a bogus fee and telling them they will get even tell them you know you aren't supposed to do this
-making fake entries on spreadsheets making it look people are paid up when they aren't
-telling kids you don't like their private teacher so they won't get credit for private lessons
-telling kids private lessons are mandatory

....then somebody needs to sort stuff out. And you need to be talked to. Get over it.

No sympathy. No apologies. Quit whining.

-"selling $40 of cards to families by including them in a bogus fee and telling them they will get their money back when they sell them and even tell them you know you aren't supposed to do this"

Typo. It has been a long week. I see plenty of typos out there. I don't want to hear about it.

Barbara,

How on earth can you claim that you never said anything criminal was going on? Just a few days ago you posted this:

"Extorting and demanding money that you are not entitled to from people is against the law. Yeh! Really. It is! Anybody can tell you that.Not following state laws means YOU BROKE THE LAW. Got it? Demanding fees that are not approved by the school system, not returning excess money collected for consumables or a school trip, sending out a bill for $250 to a bunch of parents when you don't have the right to do so, etc.-all are violations of state laws. THEY ARE! These are the people who stand to lose their savings and their homes and their bank accounts."

You are blatantly accusing people of breaking laws, which by definition makes them criminals.

Between the epic scam that is Boosterthon and the legendary perversions of Laurence Einuis, FCPS' music programs are doomed.