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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
College Questions
Posted by: Stacey G ()
Date: November 07, 2014 12:21PM

I understand that college is a highly contentious subject on this site, but I really need some input from somebody outside of my home and outside of the counselor's office.

My son is a senior at a Fairfax County school, and is just finishing most of his college application letters He's a great student and should have a great shot at UVA and William and Mary, but he doesn't seem interested in either. We visited a couple of out of state schools which he loved, but that are going to be impossible to afford.His father passed away when he was younger, so financially there are some restrictions on what we can afford since I am the lone source of income.

Of the Virginia schools we've visited, he is only applying to Virginia Tech, UVA, UMW, and William and Mary. With no major in mind yet. With all of that being taken into account, do you think he would be fine applying to these schools, or should he also consider GMU or JMU? Does it make sense to shell out tons of money for the Northwesterns and Tulanes of the world?

I myself went to the University of Maryland, so not a private school but not an academic slouch, so I have no bias on where he goes, I just want what is best for my son and my wallet.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: answererrr ()
Date: November 07, 2014 12:27PM

no

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Terp ()
Date: November 07, 2014 12:36PM

GMU or JMU. My daughter went to Va. Tech and the drive back and forth gets old after a while. You say he has no major yet in mind so I'd go with GMU, live at home, and make him help out the the housework. Kids that age tend to want to get as far away from home as they can but it's expensive. I met a kid at our sons college (VCU) who was from California and said he'd only gone there to make sure his parents wouldn't visit very often but they had the money to fly him home for holidays and breaks. I'll bet he didn't tell his folks that.
Save your money and hope he'll chooses a major that will help him make a buck when he graduates. BTW, I too went to the U. of Md. but as a night student while holding down a full time government job. One good thing was being able to cherry pick my courses that were job related that helped me climb the ladder faster than if I'd had to play catch-up after finishing a generic four year degree.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Business Owner ()
Date: November 07, 2014 12:45PM

My advice would be to send your crotch fruit to a trade school and learn a trade that will make him some decent coin when he graduates. Jobs for college graduates have "stacked up" over the last few years and recent graduates will be lucky to land a minimum wage job at a fast food joint. Hardly the way to pay off those ever growing student loan debts.

He'd be better off to learn to drive a tractor trailer, be an electrician or plumber, of an HVAC technician with the goal of eventually owning his own business. Hell, even some landscape management courses would be better for him than some useless liberal arts degree. Plenty of people want their yards and businesses maintained, and God knows there are plenty of low paying employees from whom he could hire.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Another Perspective ()
Date: November 07, 2014 12:47PM

You talk about a very important subject in your question..money. I suggest a different method and that is spending the first 2 years going to the local community college while being a part of the Pathways program or the guaranteed admission program. The savings of 2 years locally and the final 2 at one of the universities you mentioned is quite the sum of money. He still ends up with a diploma from the college and gets the same level of education.

Just a thought

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: hmmmmmm ()
Date: November 07, 2014 12:49PM

Yes, Fairfax Underground is the first place I turn to when I need help making decisions regarding my kid's future.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Some Thoughts ()
Date: November 07, 2014 12:58PM

There are probably other people here who are better positioned to respond, but I'll take a stab at it...

Unless your son gets a scholarship (and you might try), it just isn't worth it for you or for him to incur the additional costs to attend an out of state school - especially since he doesn't yet know what direction he wants to go in. Your son must have a pretty good idea of your financial constraints. Sometimes kids (especially around here), need to hear the phrase "we can't afford it".

Virginia has some really top notch schools, and it sounds like you're applying to them. Unfortunately, everyone else around here is applying as well. The competition is stiff. Personally, I would apply as well to at least one 'safe school'.

If your son insists on going to an expensive out of state school, then you could put the onus on him to figure out how to afford it. He could work for a year or two and save up. He could go to NVCC (Northern Virginia Community College) for two years (a great bargain) and then transfer. I can see parents out there cringing at these two options - but you do what you have to do when you're financially strapped.

Whatever you decide, don't feel guilty. I grew up poor with my widowed mother. I really wanted to go to a prestigious out of state school, but we couldn't afford it. I got over it and did just fine. So will your son.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: btdt ()
Date: November 07, 2014 12:59PM

When my daughter was looking at schools, we were surprised at Ohio University. They have a formula (if your GPA = x and your SAT=y you are guaranteed $Z) Look on website for a chart. It would have been cheaper for her to go there than VT. Check out some out of state STATE schools - they are looking for out-of-staters for diversity and they even the $$.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: as if ()
Date: November 07, 2014 01:17PM

Your son is not going to get into Virginia Tech, UVA, or William & Mary, so that part of your decision is taken care of.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Hd6VG ()
Date: November 07, 2014 01:23PM

College is not about name brand, tuition or status. It is about the proper fit.

I would never send my kid to William & Mary, too hyper competitive and everyone says W & M is for UVA students that are "serious". UVA, my kid had no interest and in hindsight, we listened and found a great fit that my kid was super excited about and continues to be excited about.

College is also learning about yourself and expanding your abilities both academically, personally and responsibly.

Part of it is about "growing up".

Not sure why someone would drive back and forth to VA Tech so much. My child is at one of the tons of money schools listed by the OP. Have not see my child since Aug, will not see them until Thanksgiving. My student is having the best time, getting good grades, meeting interesting people and learning about how it is to live with a roommate and having to be responsible.

If your kid is not interested in a school, not sure I would send them there. Most of the VA schools will Defer the kids from Fairfax so do not be too upset when you do not hear from the VA schools until mid May!!!

Need to figure out if your student is a big or small school kind of personality. They will need to get involved with something otherwise they will be miserable and drinking themselves into a stupor does not help matters.

The NOVA tract is not bad, but the kids miss out on great Freshman bonding experiences and may not have a great connection to a school they finally end up going to.

GMU is not bad, but it is too close to home.

Look around and what is out there, if your student gets good grades and you have financial limits, often many schools offer money for good solid students. So do not turn away from private or out of state schools.

The FCPS Councilors have blinders on and often only direct kids to schools they know people at. My kid did not apply to any of the schools the Councilor recommended for many reasons. In the end my kid made a great choice and things are working out very well, do not try to steer your kid too much, let them take ownership but let them know that money could be an issue.

Good luck.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Stacey G ()
Date: November 07, 2014 01:30PM

Thank you for all of the responses, the helpful and the not so helpful, because I just need more ideas and perspectives to weigh against some of my own thoughts.

The community college option I think makes the most sense financially, but I have yet to bring it up with my son, as there is a certain stigmatization that accompanies NOVA (whether rightfully or wrongly). I personally think it makes a ton of sense, but I guess it also depends on how he sees it.

btdt -- I am going to look into Ohio University, because that sounds like quite the deal.

For 'safe' schools he's applying to UMW, but we will do more research on other safety schools, though based on the comments, it doesn't seem like NOVA would be that bad of an option.

Academically, he's in the top 95% of his class, but his SAT only falls within the top 80%, so there is a drop off. Unfortunately, I don't think he can qualify for too many academic scholarships. My late husband was black, so he does have that going for him when he applies, but I don't think that will do too much for him in terms of getting him a sizable scholarship.

I really like the Ohio University idea, does anyone know if there are similar options for other colleges?

I really appreciate the input on this, by the way. I feel like too many of the other parents I talk to are only focused on the most prestigious (expensive) schools and don't consider the financial side to things. Cheers :)

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Clem Sunn ()
Date: November 07, 2014 01:46PM

I think Clemson and the University of South Carolina will provide scholarships roughly equal to the difference between their out-of-state tuition and what you would be paying in-state in Virginia. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other state school do the same.

You stated that "Academically, he's in the top 95% of his class, but his SAT only falls within the top 80%,..." Do you possibly mean 5% and 20%, respectively? 95th percentile is "top 5%".

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: And another thing... ()
Date: November 07, 2014 02:14PM

When you fill out the federal FAFSA form it will give you a general idea of if he's eligible for work-study programs and how much in federal student loans he might get. If he's not averse to working while attending school and/or taking out federal student loans, it definitely makes sense to find the best fit (whether that's in or out of state).

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Biohazard ()
Date: November 07, 2014 02:22PM

Send your son to the Sheriff's department youth ranch. Its a free program that will prepare him for college as well as life's greatest challenges.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: KWE3J ()
Date: November 07, 2014 02:58PM

Graduating in 2004, myself and many of my peers got into Tech but were wait-listed/denied at JMU. Point being, I wouldn't be so quick to lump JMU into the lower tier. Let's hope your son is a good student, getting into GMU is the only shoo in.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Bad Advice Guy ()
Date: November 07, 2014 03:25PM

Have you looked into Longwood? He could be quite the standout student at this fine institution of higher learning. A big fish in a small puddle, if you will. He could be their first Rhodes scholar given the hypo-competitive environment and the general lack of direction of his peers. Shoot for the moon and bring a step stool.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Don't rule these out ()
Date: November 07, 2014 03:37PM

Look at some of the SLACs. Unfortunately there are not many in Virginia (just one of those quirks of history). But there are many good ones in Pennsylvania. If your son is not sure what he is interested in, the small atmosphere, small class sizes, and more personal attention may help him decide. Some of them give lots of "merit aid" to bring the price down. You very well could be at the same price point as an in-state public.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: more ()
Date: November 07, 2014 03:40PM

The counselors in FCPS will not, in general, promote the SLACs. That's what we found.

Read the book, "Colleges That Change Lives" by Loren Pope. You might not choose any of those colleges, BUT you will get some insights into what matters when looking for a college.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: 22015 ()
Date: November 07, 2014 05:56PM

Have you looked into the Academic Common Market? It is a way to get in-state tuition at out of state colleges.

http://www.sreb.org/page/1304/academic_common_market.html

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: ivy ()
Date: November 07, 2014 06:17PM

Stacey G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you for all of the responses, the helpful
> and the not so helpful, because I just need more
> ideas and perspectives to weigh against some of my
> own thoughts.
>
> The community college option I think makes the
> most sense financially, but I have yet to bring it
> up with my son, as there is a certain
> stigmatization that accompanies NOVA (whether
> rightfully or wrongly). I personally think it
> makes a ton of sense, but I guess it also depends
> on how he sees it.
>
> btdt -- I am going to look into Ohio University,
> because that sounds like quite the deal.
>
> For 'safe' schools he's applying to UMW, but we
> will do more research on other safety schools,
> though based on the comments, it doesn't seem like
> NOVA would be that bad of an option.
>
> Academically, he's in the top 95% of his class,
> but his SAT only falls within the top 80%, so
> there is a drop off. Unfortunately, I don't think
> he can qualify for too many academic scholarships.
> My late husband was black, so he does have that
> going for him when he applies, but I don't think
> that will do too much for him in terms of getting
> him a sizable scholarship.
>
> I really like the Ohio University idea, does
> anyone know if there are similar options for other
> colleges?
>
> I really appreciate the input on this, by the way.
> I feel like too many of the other parents I talk
> to are only focused on the most prestigious
> (expensive) schools and don't consider the
> financial side to things. Cheers :)

I hope you mean he is in the top 5% rather than the top 95%.

It is all well and good that you late husband was black. The more important question is whether your student's father is black.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: not jay matthews ()
Date: November 07, 2014 06:19PM

more Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The counselors in FCPS will not, in general,
> promote the SLACs. That's what we found.
>
> Read the book, "Colleges That Change Lives" by
> Loren Pope. You might not choose any of those
> colleges, BUT you will get some insights into what
> matters when looking for a college.

I never though that I would read a post about The Colleges that Change Lives on this site. You are to be commended.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Goober Detector ()
Date: November 07, 2014 06:20PM

ivy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stacey G Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thank you for all of the responses, the helpful
> > and the not so helpful, because I just need
> more
> > ideas and perspectives to weigh against some of
> my
> > own thoughts.
> >
> > The community college option I think makes the
> > most sense financially, but I have yet to bring
> it
> > up with my son, as there is a certain
> > stigmatization that accompanies NOVA (whether
> > rightfully or wrongly). I personally think it
> > makes a ton of sense, but I guess it also
> depends
> > on how he sees it.
> >
> > btdt -- I am going to look into Ohio
> University,
> > because that sounds like quite the deal.
> >
> > For 'safe' schools he's applying to UMW, but we
> > will do more research on other safety schools,
> > though based on the comments, it doesn't seem
> like
> > NOVA would be that bad of an option.
> >
> > Academically, he's in the top 95% of his class,
> > but his SAT only falls within the top 80%, so
> > there is a drop off. Unfortunately, I don't
> think
> > he can qualify for too many academic
> scholarships.
> > My late husband was black, so he does have that
> > going for him when he applies, but I don't
> think
> > that will do too much for him in terms of
> getting
> > him a sizable scholarship.
> >
> > I really like the Ohio University idea, does
> > anyone know if there are similar options for
> other
> > colleges?
> >
> > I really appreciate the input on this, by the
> way.
> > I feel like too many of the other parents I
> talk
> > to are only focused on the most prestigious
> > (expensive) schools and don't consider the
> > financial side to things. Cheers :)
>
> I hope you mean he is in the top 5% rather than
> the top 95%.
>
> It is all well and good that you late husband was
> black. The more important question is whether
> your student's father is black.

Once you go black you never go back.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: November 07, 2014 07:23PM

If your kid really is that good, there are a number of out of state schools, public and private, that will offer up large amounts of money to entice your kid to go there. Some can end up being less expensive than Virginia schools.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Stacey G ()
Date: November 07, 2014 07:35PM

Yes, his father was black, making him half black, which is nothing to be ashamed of.

Thank you again for the good recommendations! I will definitely look into Colleges that Change Lives :)

I apologize for flipping the SAT and GPA statistics - he has had basically straight A's through high school, but his SAT, while top 20%, is only a 1930, which his counselor says is too low for most academic scholarships.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Otherschools ()
Date: November 07, 2014 08:11PM

Denison University, Miami Ohio, and Kalamazoo College are all very good liberal arts schools. I don't recall the details, but all let you apply for free if you use the online application. They all offer aid to a large majority of students and generally about half the total. Your kid sounds like a good student, so maybe they could get more. The price on the website is most often a sticker price, there is usually a substantial discount applied.

It's hard for Northern Virginia kids to get into the state schools, but schools everywhere else love them. They love having connections in this area.

They are free to apply and probably little to do beyond the common app. It doesn't hurt to find out what they will offer, and maybe to negotiate if one becomes a top choice but costs more.

Good luck.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Greybeard ()
Date: November 07, 2014 08:28PM

I've never looked at where someone went to school when hiring. And I've probably known more people who *don't* wind up working in their major than *do*.

So given that he has no major in mind, there's no reason to spend a fortune on school yet. Tell him "Let's save it for grad school, once you figure out what you want to do". Mason, NVCC...it won't matter. And if you do NVCC for a year or two, you can transfer to a higher-end school if you want. There need be no stigma.

But getting an 18-year-old to believe all this truth may be a challenge...

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Uni ()
Date: November 07, 2014 09:41PM

Don't forget about VCU. It's a lot different than than all the other schools in Virginia. Fit counts a lot. So someone who might be love one school, might hate another. Be sure to visit carefully during accepted student day in April.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Bad Advice Guy ()
Date: November 07, 2014 09:51PM

Don't forget about The University of Phoenix either. He could get his degree in his pajamas while doing career developmental special projects such as Laundry and Microwaving.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: 09q248907 ()
Date: November 07, 2014 11:33PM

some interesting posts

counselors, teachers, people who funneled through the fcps system and then returned as teachers or fcps administrators are narrow minded, area is full of inbreds

more kids want to go to jmu because it is fun like the good old days of college. kids who grew up here and go there are not exposed to much diversity and tend to continue down the ignorant path due to lack of exposure, you know, they have a hard time telling black people apart because they all look the same

school reputation is less important these days, major is more important, all kinds of unemployed wm, uva, etc grads with worthless pieces of diploma paper, earnings are zero across the board so it doesn't matter if you studied every Saturday or drank beer every Saturday night

your kid sounds smart, pick a good fit for his personality and goals

nova path is good if you want a generic degree, read the fine print if you want to get into the business or engineering schools

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Jed Clampert ()
Date: November 08, 2014 12:30AM

Your mulatto crotch fruit should go to NOVA and work full time before transferring to a 4 year school.The reality is he wants to be as far away from mom as possible so he can party down with numerous illegal drugs, underage alcohol and last but not least, bangin all the bitches and ho's while impregnating them with his demon seed.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: college confidential ()
Date: November 08, 2014 07:17AM


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Re: College Questions
Posted by: MILF Lover ()
Date: November 08, 2014 10:28AM

I love the empty nesters! StaceyG, want my number?

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: get more for same price ()
Date: November 08, 2014 11:30AM

Apply to Juniata College. There is no application fee and they give a lot of merit aid. It's 3.25 hours away so you can drive there and back easily in one day. It's a small town so it might not be for your son however. But it has a very tight knit community on campus and your son will experience a different culture (not the NOVA crowd). College is not just about classes. It's about stepping out of your zone, learning to deal with life on your own, etc. These are the things that will really make a difference in the end. As someone above stated, many people work outside of their majors in the "real world" anyway. Undergraduate years are still years of personal growth for students. Find the fit for him that allows that growth to happen. As Robert Frost so aptly wrote:

"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference."

Good luck!!

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: thanks ()
Date: November 08, 2014 11:33AM

"I never though that I would read a post about The Colleges that Change Lives on this site. You are to be commended."


Thanks. I didn't grow up in NOVA or go to college here and I'm trying to keep my value system intact! It's not always easy, but there is help out there if you look.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: couple more options ()
Date: November 08, 2014 11:56AM

All very good schools with decent scholarship options/chances

NC State
NY SUNY System
State schools in the midwest (Iowa State, University of Nebraska, Oklahoma State)

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: LetsRock ()
Date: November 08, 2014 02:25PM

Stacey G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand that college is a highly contentious
> subject on this site, but I really need some input
> from somebody outside of my home and outside of
> the counselor's office.
>
> My son is a senior at a Fairfax County school, and
> is just finishing most of his college application
> letters He's a great student and should have a
> great shot at UVA and William and Mary, but he
> doesn't seem interested in either. We visited a
> couple of out of state schools which he loved, but
> that are going to be impossible to afford.His
> father passed away when he was younger, so
> financially there are some restrictions on what we
> can afford since I am the lone source of income.
>
> Of the Virginia schools we've visited, he is only
> applying to Virginia Tech, UVA, UMW, and William
> and Mary. With no major in mind yet. With all of
> that being taken into account, do you think he
> would be fine applying to these schools, or should
> he also consider GMU or JMU? Does it make sense to
> shell out tons of money for the Northwesterns and
> Tulanes of the world?
>
> I myself went to the University of Maryland, so
> not a private school but not an academic slouch,
> so I have no bias on where he goes, I just want
> what is best for my son and my wallet.


How can he choose a college if he doesn't know what he wants to major in???? This makes a big difference in what school you want to attend. I suggest you save our money and tell him to attend NOVA until he figures out what he wants to major in. The credits will transfer to an in-state school and the cost per credit is less.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2014 02:26PM by LetsRock.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: worth the search ()
Date: November 08, 2014 03:23PM

"How can he choose a college if he doesn't know what he wants to major in???? This makes a big difference in what school you want to attend. I suggest you save our money and tell him to attend NOVA until he figures out what he wants to major in. The credits will transfer to an in-state school and the cost per credit is less."


Um, no. You don't need to know what you want to major in to select a college. The first two years of college are generally spent on requirements and that is the time to explore and think about what you want to do. There are plenty of students who go into college undecided and many colleges love to help these kinds of students. There are also plenty of students who go in thinking they know what they want to major in and then they change their minds. It's not a big deal.

A student like this should probably go to a smaller college where there will be a lot of interaction with real professors (not TAs or adjunct types who haven't been at the college long). This is the weakness of a community college. At a four year college a student can talk to professors who teach the higher level courses in the various majors. The student can also interact with other students who are already in the major or have gone on internships, overseas, etc. This is very valuable and it is what you are paying for. This helped me enormously when I was in college and it led to the most significant experience of my undergrad career (and life really). I would highly encourage a student who is serious (as this young man seems to be) to check out SLACs. Don't be put off by the prices. They can be heavily discounted. Living and studying in the college atmosphere is a wonderful experience. I know that the community college offers a lot, but as an 18 year old, it is good to have the away from home and distractions time in order to learn more about yourself. Some of these colleges will help you with money when they see your son. Go visit them and you will see.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Not So Fast ()
Date: November 08, 2014 04:03PM

"A student like this should probably go to a smaller college where there will be a lot of interaction with real professors (not TAs or adjunct types who haven't been at the college long). This is the weakness of a community college. At a four year college a student can talk to professors who teach the higher level courses in the various majors."

I have to take exception to that. My son went to NOVA and transferred to Mason. Most of his class's at Mason have been taught by TAs - even the upper level courses. That doesn't happen at NOVA. The professors at NOVA are also more likely to have real world experience.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: johncommode ()
Date: November 08, 2014 04:20PM

I would suggest your son spend more time thinking about what he might "like" to do. And then find a school that would offer several programs in his area of interest.

You don't want to be limited when it comes time declare a major.

ODU in Norfolk is another option to consider BTW. I didn't see it listed in your list of the "larger" VA schools.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2014 04:20PM by johncommode.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: you are stoopid ()
Date: November 08, 2014 05:05PM

worth the search Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "How can he choose a college if he doesn't know
> what he wants to major in???? This makes a big
> difference in what school you want to attend. I
> suggest you save our money and tell him to attend
> NOVA until he figures out what he wants to major
> in. The credits will transfer to an in-state
> school and the cost per credit is less."
>
>
> Um, no. You don't need to know what you want to
> major in to select a college.

Um yes. Would you go to an Italian restaurant if you wanted to eat sushi. Don't go to Georgetown if you are interested in landscape architecture. Don't go to Virgina Tech if you are interested in music performance.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: not a good analogy ()
Date: November 08, 2014 07:36PM

^Music performance is something you might have a slight clue about before you go to college (trust me on that). Landscape architecture sounds like a vocational course or a certificate. A person could go into environmental studies or botany and later go into "landscape architecture".

You don't want an Italian restaurant. You want to go to the food court. And you might want to learn how to boil an egg before you learn how to make the souffle anyway. You can also switch restaurants. Age 18 may be early to commit to one restaurant.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: undecided ()
Date: November 08, 2014 07:50PM

"About 80 percent of students in the United States end up changing their major at least once, according to the National Center for Education Statistics. On average, college students change their major at least three times over the course of their college career."


Just saying.


True career specialization comes after college and can go on for many years. Bachelor level is just the beginning.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: you are stoopid ()
Date: November 08, 2014 07:59PM

not a good analogy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^Music performance is something you might have a
> slight clue about before you go to college (trust
> me on that). Landscape architecture sounds like a
> vocational course or a certificate. A person
> could go into environmental studies or botany and
> later go into "landscape architecture".

http://www.arch.virginia.edu/academics/disciplines/landscape
http://archdesign.vt.edu/landscape-architecture/

Vocational training? Perhaps it is, but there is a well-defined curriculum. Environmental studies trains you to converse at cocktail parties. Botany does not involve design.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: DCProf ()
Date: November 08, 2014 08:07PM

Another Perspective Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You talk about a very important subject in your
> question..money. I suggest a different method and
> that is spending the first 2 years going to the
> local community college while being a part of the
> Pathways program or the guaranteed admission
> program. The savings of 2 years locally and the
> final 2 at one of the universities you mentioned
> is quite the sum of money. He still ends up with
> a diploma from the college and gets the same level
> of education.
>
> Just a thought

This is actually a fantastic option...there are so many positives and few negatives. The financial savings is so significant, and it doesn't matter where you went your first two years for your core classes, it only matters where you go the Bachelor's Degree from.

With that being said...your kids personality is a major factor here. If he's a social kid, alpha male, and/or has a lot of friends...staying home and going to NOVA will probably drive him nuts. My boy tried this with the intent of saving money (not scholarship worthy...but got into GMU, JMU, Radford, and VCU)...and after the first semester re-applied to a 4 year school just to get out. His friends were gone, everyone is talking about what a great time there were having, and he was going stir crazy.

Plus...for instance, if you plan on transferring to a school like UVA, you have to check your degree preference requirements. The School of Engineering at UVA for example is a 4 year program...no transferring in. So that stuff has to be checked.

BTW...don't sleep on Christopher Newport University. A great school, great campus, with a ton of money pouring in. The facilities, sports, and faculty are top notch. It's an up and comer.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: cPdNX ()
Date: November 08, 2014 10:12PM

Miami Of Ohio seems to be a interesting choice for many FFX grads

1920 SAT, Mostly A student, not sure how you classify ethnicity on forms, assume African American or maybe mark Caucasian and African American.

I see all sort of schools offering money, depends on your income as well.

But best to find a school he is interested in and fits.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: date ()
Date: November 08, 2014 10:16PM

undecided Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "About 80 percent of students in the United States
> end up changing their major at least once,
> according to the National Center for Education
> Statistics. On average, college students change
> their major at least three times over the course
> of their college career."
>
>
> Just saying.
>
>
> True career specialization comes after college and
> can go on for many years. Bachelor level is just
> the beginning.


this is valid but an expensive path. bachelor is 8o-100K. specialization is another 100-200K. that is a lot of debt

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Incivil ()
Date: November 08, 2014 10:55PM

Your son should have "skin in the game" where paying more than you can comfortably afford is concerned. Has he considered applying for an ROTC scholarship? No matter what he majors in, he will also have a job after college.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: doors open ()
Date: November 08, 2014 10:58PM

^If you go the right direction, you can get someone else to pay for the specialization end of it (post bachelors). Most people don't take their whole college education as debt (as implied above). There are other forms of financial aid besides loans out there and, in fact, most colleges would not recommend taking on that much debt (nor could you even get that much in loans---especially in this climate).

Also, there are already limits on loan repayment as a percentage of income (and even number of year limits). As the boomers die off, there will be more political pressure to do more to get rid of these loans from the backs of the millennials (as they start to vote). This will have to happen as investment in the real economy becomes a priority. I would never worry about making the most important investment---in yourself as a person. If you have talent and want to improve yourself, go for it. You are making our country a better place and our country will eventually come through for you. It might take some time, but it's coming. YOU are the future and you will have the power to make this happen. Don't give up and don't accept substandard.

As Winston Churchill said, "You can count on the United States to make the right decision after all other options have been exhausted." I am certain that we will not let this generation fail.

It is not your fault that college costs have skyrocketed way beyond increases due to inflation. Forge ahead, work hard, and believe. There are still good people in America. Your time is coming.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Not Alan Merton ()
Date: November 08, 2014 11:00PM

If money is tight it's vital to go to a school with high 4 year graduation rate. Otherwise, you'll be paying 6 years of tuition for a 4 year degree.

JMU is a definite. It has a 4 year graduation rate in the 70-80%.

VCU & GMU have graduation rates in the 20-30% range. Same for ODU and CNU.

Longwood is the most expensive public school in Va.and Farmille is redneck central.

Many out of state public universities give discounts for kids from Virginia.

Indiana Univerity of Pennsylvania knocks $5,000 off the out of state rate which makes it comparable to GMU.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: johncommode ()
Date: November 09, 2014 12:55AM

A lot of the schools mentioned haver longer graduation rates because the number of students that work and go to school is much higher in urbanized areas such as VCU (Richmond), GMU (Fairfax), ODU (Norfolk) and CNU (Newport News). All these schools are commuter schools and the students often work full-time. This isn't a knock on JMU.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2014 12:57AM by johncommode.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: consider ()
Date: November 09, 2014 09:56AM

Commuting is not free either. He would need a car and insurance on the car (not cheap for a boy that age) and there could be maintenance. If he has an accident (which teens are more likely to have), more money is involved (and inconvenience). If the weather is bad it's a worry. There are parking fees as well.

In the end, I think it may be a bit more to live on campus, but the benefits outweigh the price. The student can concentrate more fully on his studies when he doesn't have to deal with the car, the commute, etc. Being in the college environment is huge in terms of going to extracurricular activities, guest speakers, study groups, etc. Even on campus work/study jobs would be easier to schedule. Colleges have many of these things going on and your son may want to participate.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Teacher ()
Date: November 09, 2014 08:22PM

My daughter had a similar academic profile to your son. She got a lot of money from a private school in Pennsylvania and little money offered from VA schools, and she has no dad alive either. I would definitely have him look at the schools out of state that want to increase the places their students come from. PA or NC or SC. You would be surprised at how much money they would offer. But don't let him take out tons of loans that he can never pay back. I did not like JMU when I went there, but it has a lot of good professors and programs and much project based learning. I would put it on the list. Good luck.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: butthurt ()
Date: November 11, 2014 08:11PM

Clem Sunn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Clemson and the University of South
> Carolina will provide scholarships roughly equal
> to the difference between their out-of-state
> tuition and what you would be paying in-state in
> Virginia. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of
> other state school do the same.
>
> You stated that "Academically, he's in the top 95%
> of his class, but his SAT only falls within the
> top 80%,..." Do you possibly mean 5% and 20%,
> respectively? 95th percentile is "top 5%".

yes,usc will give 'scholarships'to marginal students to equal out the price a bit. other mediocre schools do same. will still cost more thou. i'd say go with uva/wm/vt if he gets in any of them. (sat score might be a problem.) cheaper and closer. they are all good schools (had kids in each).

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: HNE3P ()
Date: November 11, 2014 08:19PM

consider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the end, I think it may be a bit more to live
> on campus, but the benefits outweigh the price.
> The student can concentrate more fully on his
> studies when he doesn't have to deal with the car,
> the commute, etc. Being in the college
> environment is huge in terms of going to
> extracurricular activities, guest speakers, study
> groups, etc. Even on campus work/study jobs would
> be easier to schedule. Colleges have many of
> these things going on and your son may want to
> participate.

Parties and Poontang!

It's all part of growing up.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: nov00 ()
Date: November 11, 2014 08:48PM

I love seeing Kalamazoo College being mentioned here. That is actually great college up in Michigan, and they do give generous scholarships. While it is definitely respected there, most people will stay in Michigan. I am not sure it has any name recognition down here, despite being a great school, so finding a job assuming he returns here will be harder since they will not be familiar with the school.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Livingstone ()
Date: November 11, 2014 08:53PM

Livingstone College

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: why? ()
Date: November 11, 2014 08:58PM

"While it is definitely respected there, most people will stay in Michigan. I am not sure it has any name recognition down here, despite being a great school, so finding a job assuming he returns here will be harder since they will not be familiar with the school."


I don't understand this mentality. You would think that employers would want diversity in the backgrounds of their employees. Having employees from various schools may not be a bad thing.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: No One Gives A ------it! ()
Date: November 11, 2014 09:04PM

Stacey G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand that college is a highly contentious
> subject on this site, but I really need some input
> from somebody outside of my home and outside of
> the counselor's office.
>
> My son is a senior at a Fairfax County school, and
> is just finishing most of his college application
> letters He's a great student and should have a
> great shot at UVA and William and Mary, but he
> doesn't seem interested in either. We visited a
> couple of out of state schools which he loved, but
> that are going to be impossible to afford.His
> father passed away when he was younger, so
> financially there are some restrictions on what we
> can afford since I am the lone source of income.
>
> Of the Virginia schools we've visited, he is only
> applying to Virginia Tech, UVA, UMW, and William
> and Mary. With no major in mind yet. With all of
> that being taken into account, do you think he
> would be fine applying to these schools, or should
> he also consider GMU or JMU? Does it make sense to
> shell out tons of money for the Northwesterns and
> Tulanes of the world?
>
> I myself went to the University of Maryland, so
> not a private school but not an academic slouch,
> so I have no bias on where he goes, I just want
> what is best for my son and my wallet.


STFU & FYA!

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Like Seeks Like ()
Date: November 11, 2014 09:18PM

why? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "While it is definitely respected there, most
> people will stay in Michigan. I am not sure it has
> any name recognition down here, despite being a
> great school, so finding a job assuming he returns
> here will be harder since they will not be
> familiar with the school."
>
>
> I don't understand this mentality. You would
> think that employers would want diversity in the
> backgrounds of their employees. Having employees
> from various schools may not be a bad thing.

You may be right, but people feel comfortable with things that they know. Kalamazoo may be a great school, but I'm guessing people who've never heard of it
(including me) might tend to view it as a rinkydink Midwestern college for hyper-conservative kids. For better or worse, perception is reality. The same may be true for good but obscure small liberal art colleges.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: open to new ideas ()
Date: November 11, 2014 09:26PM

"You may be right, but people feel comfortable with things that they know. Kalamazoo may be a great school, but I'm guessing people who've never heard of it
(including me) might tend to view it as a rinkydink Midwestern college for hyper-conservative kids. For better or worse, perception is reality. The same may be true for good but obscure small liberal art colleges."

Well, maybe people like you should open up their minds and step out of their "comfort zones". Getting a new perspective can not only be refreshing, but rewarding. But I guess some people will never know.

Prejudging people and places ("rinkydink" and "hyper-conservative") may leave you behind in the final analysis. You have obviously never spent much time away from home or with people who are not like you.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: nov00 ()
Date: November 11, 2014 09:29PM

I am not defending it, but many people get their job based on the fact the employer is familiar with or even actually went to the same college as the applicant. It can only help to make your resume stand out. With all of the colleges around here, a school about 15 hours away is not going to be as appealing as the ones they do not have to Google.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: person more than place ()
Date: November 11, 2014 09:40PM

You may be right, but I would not use that as a major factor in choosing where to go to college if you are a fit for a different type of school.

I do understand this since at one point in my career I was hired by someone who had lived in a place where I had landed at one point (and that happened here in DC and our mutual "place" was in New York). So, living here where there are people from all over the USA, it is not unusual to meet people who have heard of the "obscure" colleges in other states (where they have lived or worked as well). It is truly surprising. I also went to a midwestern college (as did my spouse) and neither one of us had any problems getting professional jobs in DC. We are neither "rinkydink" nor "hyper-conservative". Your child will not be hired based on a school as much as on who he is (especially after the first job).

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: It's Not About Me ()
Date: November 11, 2014 09:41PM

open to new ideas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "You may be right, but people feel comfortable
> with things that they know. Kalamazoo may be a
> great school, but I'm guessing people who've never
> heard of it
> (including me) might tend to view it as a
> rinkydink Midwestern college for
> hyper-conservative kids. For better or worse,
> perception is reality. The same may be true for
> good but obscure small liberal art colleges."
>
> Well, maybe people like you should open up their
> minds and step out of their "comfort zones".
> Getting a new perspective can not only be
> refreshing, but rewarding. But I guess some
> people will never know.
>
> Prejudging people and places ("rinkydink" and
> "hyper-conservative") may leave you behind in the
> final analysis. You have obviously never spent
> much time away from home or with people who are
> not like you.

Not even close. I've been all over the world and studied abroad at two well-known colleges. Met all kinds of people, and am far more open than most people to other cultures. I was trying to reflect the perspective of a typical employer. I'm guessing you took exception to the 'hyper-conservative' comment.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: nova ()
Date: November 11, 2014 09:46PM

>
>
> I don't understand this mentality. You would
> think that employers would want diversity in the
> backgrounds of their employees. Having employees
> from various schools may not be a bad thing.


you don't understand this mentality because it is a nova mentality, people from other areas do not think like this.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: on hyper-conservatism ()
Date: November 11, 2014 09:58PM

"I was trying to reflect the perspective of a typical employer. I'm guessing you took exception to the 'hyper-conservative' comment."


Well, not really. I think I actually took more exception to the "rinkydink midwestern" comment. Would you have said those things if Kalamazoo were in Massachusetts? I honestly think most of the employers where a person would want to work would be more willing to look at a person's skills and experiences. The employer that I would work hard for would be one who is more open to people from different backgrounds and would not be one who looks only at the school that I attended.

I know that you have a point, especially if the college has a very specialized major that fits with an employer in a way that other majors don't (maybe a technical degree or engineering program). I can understand some of that. But I really wouldn't think that a person would not be willing to "google" a college or call someone with knowledge of that school if they were interested in an applicant.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: in bred ()
Date: November 11, 2014 10:05PM

on hyper-conservatism Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I was trying to reflect the perspective of a
> typical employer. I'm guessing you took exception
> to the 'hyper-conservative' comment."
>
>
> Well, not really. I think I actually took more
> exception to the "rinkydink midwestern" comment.
> Would you have said those things if Kalamazoo were
> in Massachusetts? I honestly think most of the
> employers where a person would want to work would
> be more willing to look at a person's skills and
> experiences. The employer that I would work hard
> for would be one who is more open to people from
> different backgrounds and would not be one who
> looks only at the school that I attended.
>
> I know that you have a point, especially if the
> college has a very specialized major that fits
> with an employer in a way that other majors don't
> (maybe a technical degree or engineering program).
> I can understand some of that. But I really
> wouldn't think that a person would not be willing
> to "google" a college or call someone with
> knowledge of that school if they were interested
> in an applicant.


people around here are in-bred, very narrow thinking on so many levels yet they profess to be critical thinkers from great liberal arts programs

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Truce ()
Date: November 11, 2014 11:01PM

on hyper-conservatism Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I was trying to reflect the perspective of a
> typical employer. I'm guessing you took exception
> to the 'hyper-conservative' comment."
>
>
> Well, not really. I think I actually took more
> exception to the "rinkydink midwestern" comment.

Fair enough. No offense intended. My first masters degree was from a Midwestern school.

> Would you have said those things if Kalamazoo were
> in Massachusetts?

Funny you should ask. That's where I'm from, so it's hard to say.

> I honestly think most of the
> employers where a person would want to work would
> be more willing to look at a person's skills and
> experiences.

That's true. Most people really don't care where the heck you went to school after you have some experience. But it can matter when you're looking for your first job.

> The employer that I would work hard
> for would be one who is more open to people from
> different backgrounds and would not be one who
> looks only at the school that I attended.

Same here.

> I know that you have a point, especially if the
> college has a very specialized major that fits
> with an employer in a way that other majors don't
> (maybe a technical degree or engineering program).
> I can understand some of that. But I really
> wouldn't think that a person would not be willing
> to "google" a college or call someone with
> knowledge of that school if they were interested
> in an applicant.

That would be true if there were a shortage of candidates for a position. But - in my experience - there are so many resumes for each opening that they tend to be reviewed pretty superficially.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: So how would you decide on this ()
Date: November 12, 2014 05:12PM

^ So, would you advise someone not to go to a college if the college is not well known in this area (and the person may want to get a job in this area after finishing college)? What importance would you place on this aspect of the college selection decision? Would this be a "deal breaker" for going to a particular college?

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: ()*&Y*(&)^ ()
Date: November 13, 2014 10:15PM

do well in the college you pick, name isn't so important

have passed over MIT bc not a good fit for job needed

name dropping arrogance is spotted in an interview, you can't come out of college and expect to manage professionals with 20 yrs, you can't come out of college and expect people to hand you neat assignments, there are many things we look for in a candidate besides the school name

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: ...... ()
Date: November 13, 2014 10:27PM

Current GMU student here. Jr year.

At my PT job I manage 2 VT GRDUATES. The one with the MBA is dumb as fuck.

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: and ()
Date: November 14, 2014 10:04PM

many dumb uva in the workplace also

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Re: College Questions
Posted by: Blanco ()
Date: November 15, 2014 06:28AM

Bad Advice Guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you looked into Longwood? He could be quite
> the standout student at this fine institution of
> higher learning. A big fish in a small puddle, if
> you will. He could be their first Rhodes scholar
> given the hypo-competitive environment and the
> general lack of direction of his peers. Shoot for
> the moon and bring a step stool.


This. Longwood isn't just a perpetual safety school, but the experience will introduce you to that sweet smell of cow manure and sulfur water.

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