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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Mrs. Mephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 09:07AM

I, for one, don't think we should be holding just the Nazi's accountable for the Holocaust.And we should certainly be demanding answers from the Jews that practiced Judaism. Judaism is dangerous, and it's obviously becoming a hot new fad to "hold Sabbath" with "other Jews." The Nazis should have stepped in and forced these CARELESS HEBREWs to design a religion that will convert when it comes in contact with Nazis. It's the only way to be sure.

Once we fully exonerate the Nazis from murdering six million Jews,, we'll then exonerate the Nazis from murdering those that practiced others religions the Nazis didn't favor. The government needs to step in and stop these CARELESS WHATEVER WORSHIPPERS that are designing RELIGIONS and social practices that will offend NAZIS.

As the Nazis murdered gypsies and Slavs even better; then we endorse and support the mass muredering Nazis in ALL their extermination efforts, period. Russians, Poles, Spaniards, British, Greeks, Turks, Irish, and all people who do not agree with Nazism. People who practice Catholicism, Baptists, Episcopelians, Hindus, Atheists, and people who pratice Democracy...

The sky's the limit when you completely reject the notion of institutional and organizational accountability! Hurry, Nazis, or your precious extermination camps might be the next to be eliminated from our civil society and ultimately from these well-meaning and altruistic Nazis.

Do we know if the Nazis also mass-murdered minorities? The race card could really hurt the case there, so better cover it up with more Zyklon B,

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 09:11AM

Comparing my satire of a suicidal idiot to Hitler is something like an argument, but not really.

I hereby invoke Godwin's Law. Thread is over.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Mrs. Mephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 09:16AM

Comparing your "satire" of a mass-murdering Hitlerist mentality to a harmless youth who was tragically bullied by ruthless FCPS administrators is nothing like a reasooned argument; really and truly.

I hereby flatly and smugly reject your invocation of Godwin's Law. The thread is alive and well, big boy.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: April 06, 2009 09:17AM

The inflexibility and rigidity of the FCPS system doesn't make sense to me.

I can't stand pot because I have seen way too many talented people abuse it and lead far less than productive lives. This is just a personal dislike, however.

But pot use is far from the crime of the century. And I don't get the expulsion penalty. OK, if a student threatens the health and safety of others, yes, then it is necessary. But with pot use, it strikes me what is needed is not expulsion but something along the lines of more work and real community service - something with bite - that lets the kid know the price of ill considered judgments. Drug use tends to isolate kids from positive environments - more connection with a good school environment, rather than keeping them away from it - seems to make far more sense.

I often receive grief for criticizing the negatives of large school systems. But this tragedy is a case in point. A small system or community could have been in a far better position to make the right decision for this kid - mechanistically applying rules across a huge student population just doesn't do right by the kids.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Colonel Travis ()
Date: April 06, 2009 09:22AM

It does not, I agree, do justice to the kids. It does a similar disservice to the adults who tolerate this abuse hurled at our kids.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: observation ()
Date: April 06, 2009 09:48AM

I have never encountered so many "involved and engaged" people who are so mean-spirited. Saying that Josh was unstable, deserved what he got, etc. is just plain hateful. You people are ugly inside and out and there is no help for you-save maybe an exorcism.

Those who think FCPS acted appropriately by expeling a pot smoker clearly want all druge out of our schools because you find them threatening to the well being of other students.

The facts are what they are. Ask ANY high school student what the pot usage is-they will tell you between 30-50%. The youth surveys underrepresent pot usage because frankly kids distrust the adults adminisering the survey and fear retribution. I asked a number of high school kids over the weekend how many kids in their school smoked pot and some told me they do it in the bathrooms at school!!!!

If we are truly going to eradicate drugs from our schools then let's drug test everyone-including staff and administrators (school board as well) and let the chips fall where they may. If Josh gets kicked out, them so does everyone else.

We can free up 5 or 6 high schools so let's close them and sell the land. FCPS pays over $13,000 per pupil so we will save close to $50 million.

Everyone write your school board member and tell them you support this idea!!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 09:53AM

How are the FCPS powers-that-be "ruthless bullies" for punishing a kid for breaking the rules?

If you tell me that the kid was a retard who did not understand the concepts of right, wrong, or "rules," then I'll give a pass on this one, and agree that the school system should have toned back the severity of the punishment.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: quantum ()
Date: April 06, 2009 10:22AM

Colonel Travis - I agree. No need to ping on these kids for their very common misjudgments - some of which many, many adults the adults posting here made in their own younger days.

Mr. Mephisto - the problem is not with whether the kids know the rules - many of them obviously do - but what to do with them when they, being young people people, break them. As I stated, I don't get the logic of mechanistically expelling kids. In fact, it strikes me as too easy - too lazy - and too rigid - a perfect chemistry formula for a bureaucracy, but not one that serves the kids. If kids are making bad judgments (and heck a certain number always will), and are not threatening or harming other students (a different situation), I would want them in school and connected and learning. And using their free time doing more connecting and learning. And it takes work and analysis to do the disciplinary thing right - a kid bringing pot to school is using lousy judgment, but he is in a different category the someone dealing - behavior with lots more legal liability, for one. We are dealing with kids, and no need to have a Star Chamber court in place.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Mrs. Mephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 11:57AM

How is Josh an evil villain for doing what between 30-50% of all FCPS High School kids do and what 25-35% of FCPS principals, vice principals and teachers did in their youth?

If you tell me that the FCPS Hearing Officers are a bunch of retards who did not understand the concepts of right, wrong, justice, fairness, decency or "rules," or ever themselves used pot in their youth, then I'll give a pass on this one, and agree that the Josh should have been expelled.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 12:53PM

Jesus Christ, let me get the finger paints and try to explain this again.

A. There's not a link to a news story about this in the first three pages. I stopped looking after that.

B. The drug policy is clearly defined in the FCPS Student Rights and Responsibilities handbook. A quick internet search on their drug policy led me right to it, and I am neither a student or a parent of a student, so I can't imagine this info was never made available to the public.

Allow me to quote:

"Prescription Drugs, Imitation Controlled Substances (collectively, Illegal
Drugs), or Drug Paraphernalia

The following violations shall result in disciplinary action and shall require
mandatory sanctions:

(1) The first violation for being under the influence of marijuana or any
controlled substance including anabolic steroids, or for the illegal use of
prescription drugs, or for possession of drug paraphernalia shall result in
suspension from school for a minimum of five days and a maximum
of ten days and suspension for 30 calendar days from all student
activities, including teams, clubs, and all other school-sponsored
activities. All illegal drug violations shall be reported to the police.
The days of absence from school shall be excused, and makeup work
shall be provided by the school during the period of suspension if the
student and the parent or guardian agree to, and in a timely fashion
subsequently participate satisfactorily in, appropriate substance abuse
prevention-intervention activities designated by the school principal.

(2) A second and any subsequent violation of any prohibited conduct listed
in (1) above within 12 months of the prior offense shall result in
suspension from school for a minimum of ten days and suspension
from all student activities including teams, clubs, and all other
school-sponsored activities for the remainder of the school year and
recommendation for expulsion."


So, either this smart, athletic All-American wholesome kid was singled out for some unknown reason by FCPS administration for a disproportionate amount of punishment far exceeding the guidelines set forth by the FCPS Student Rights and Responsibilities handbook for a first offender and nobody thought to question it, or he was a repeat offender who got what what he had coming to him as clearly defined in section (2) listed above.

C. By your rationale, everyone should be allowed to get off easy for beating their wife for the first time, because come on, who hasn't done that before?

D. I have no sympathy or compassion for stupid people who do stupid things and then complain about the consequences, especially when they're 100% avoidable. You really think this was the first time he smoked weed, and he just happened to do it somewhere school officials could bust him for it?

E. So how did you know Josh?

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: TomMadison ()
Date: April 06, 2009 01:02PM

DON'T YOU GET IT? THE HEARINGS OFFICE IS A MOB OF LAWLESS, VICIOUS, GUTLESS, BULLYING, TYRANNICAL COWARDS WHO WILLFULLY DESTROY THE LIVES OF INNOCENT TEENAGERS FOR THEIR OWN SATISFACTION AND AMUSEMENT. YOU REALLY HAVE TO PAY CLOSER ATTENTION.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: April 06, 2009 01:15PM

You can continue to pontificate that "rules are rules" all day long. The fact is that these rules are ridiculous. And most certainly drafted by boneheads who made similar sophomoric mistakes as teenagers. Maybe we can scrounge up incriminating evidence of their teenage escapades. Wouldn't that be fun?

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jesus Christ, let me get the finger paints and try
> to explain this again.
>
> A. There's not a link to a news story about this
> in the first three pages. I stopped looking after
> that.
>
> B. The drug policy is clearly defined in the FCPS
> Student Rights and Responsibilities handbook. A
> quick internet search on their drug policy led me
> right to it, and I am neither a student or a
> parent of a student, so I can't imagine this info
> was never made available to the public.
>
> Allow me to quote:
>
> "Prescription Drugs, Imitation Controlled
> Substances (collectively, Illegal
> Drugs), or Drug Paraphernalia
>
> The following violations shall result in
> disciplinary action and shall require
> mandatory sanctions:
>
> (1) The first violation for being under the
> influence of marijuana or any
> controlled substance including anabolic steroids,
> or for the illegal use of
> prescription drugs, or for possession of drug
> paraphernalia shall result in
> suspension from school for a minimum of five days
> and a maximum
> of ten days and suspension for 30 calendar days
> from all student
> activities, including teams, clubs, and all other
> school-sponsored
> activities. All illegal drug violations shall be
> reported to the police.
> The days of absence from school shall be excused,
> and makeup work
> shall be provided by the school during the period
> of suspension if the
> student and the parent or guardian agree to, and
> in a timely fashion
> subsequently participate satisfactorily in,
> appropriate substance abuse
> prevention-intervention activities designated by
> the school principal.
>
> (2) A second and any subsequent violation of any
> prohibited conduct listed
> in (1) above within 12 months of the prior offense
> shall result in
> suspension from school for a minimum of ten days
> and suspension
> from all student activities including teams,
> clubs, and all other
> school-sponsored activities for the remainder of
> the school year and
> recommendation for expulsion."
>
> So, either this smart, athletic All-American
> wholesome kid was singled out for some unknown
> reason by FCPS administration for a
> disproportionate amount of punishment far
> exceeding the guidelines set forth by the FCPS
> Student Rights and Responsibilities handbook for a
> first offender and nobody thought to question it,
> or he was a repeat offender who got what what he
> had coming to him as clearly defined in section
> (2) listed above.
>
> C. By your rationale, everyone should be allowed
> to get off easy for beating their wife for the
> first time, because come on, who hasn't done that
> before?
>
> D. I have no sympathy or compassion for stupid
> people who do stupid things and then complain
> about the consequences, especially when they're
> 100% avoidable. You really think this was the
> first time he smoked weed, and he just happened to
> do it somewhere school officials could bust him
> for it?
>
> E. So how did you know Josh?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: VA Code ()
Date: April 06, 2009 01:30PM

§ 22.1-277.08. Expulsion of students for certain drug offenses.

A. School boards shall expel from school attendance any student whom such school board has determined, in accordance with the procedures set forth in this article, to have brought a controlled substance, imitation controlled substance, or marijuana as defined in § 18.2-247 onto school property or to a school-sponsored activity. A school board may, however, determine, based on the facts of the particular case, that special circumstances exist and another disciplinary action is appropriate. In addition, a school board may, by regulation, authorize the division superintendent or his designee to conduct a preliminary review of such cases to determine whether a disciplinary action other than expulsion is appropriate. Such regulations shall ensure that, if a determination is made that another disciplinary action is appropriate, any such subsequent disciplinary action is to be taken in accordance with the procedures set forth in this article.

B. Each school board shall revise its standards of student conduct to incorporate the requirements of this section no later than three months after the date on which this act becomes effective.

(1998, c. 655; 1999, cc. 706, 732, § 22.1-277.01:1; 2001, cc. 688, 820.)

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: FCPS ignores recommendations ()
Date: April 06, 2009 01:37PM

Document Title
Student Discipline Statutes


Author
Virginia Commission on Youth


Enabling Authority
HJR 186 (2000)


The Code should be amended to include a list of factors to be considered by the division superintendent prior to a decision to expel a student. Language similar to the following is recommended:

Before making a recommendation for expulsion for violations other than those specified under Virginia Code section 22.1-277.01 (Gun Free Schools Act) and section 22.1-277.01:1 (Drug Free Schools Act), a superintendent shall consider, but not be limited to, the following factors:

1. Nature and seriousness of the violation
2. Degree of danger represented to the school community
3. Disciplinary history, including the seriousness and number of prior violations
4. The appropriateness and availability of an alternative education placement or
program
5. Age of the student
6. Grade level
7. Results of mental health, substance abuse or special education assessments
8. Record of previous intervention attempts
9. Attendance record
10. Academic record
11. Other factors as appropriate

Huh.....nature and seriousness of the offense.....

Huh.......degree of danger represented to the school community...

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 01:54PM

Ok, so how long was this kid a pot smoker? How often did he go to school stoned? Did he sell to his friends? What were his grades like? What kind of extracurricular activities was he engaged in? What was his attendance record like?

The people defending him make it sound like he was innocently trying a joint in his basement for the first time when the cops and public school officials burst in and decided to fuck up his life for shits and giggles.

It's called, or should be called, the Boo Effect. The closer you are emotionally to the person who did something stupid, the more out of touch with reality you get.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Mrs Mephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:08PM

Jesus Christ, let me get the finger paints and try to explain this again for you blow-hard holier-than-thou frauds.

A. There's not a link that was posted yesterday as soon as the story hit the pages of the post. Only an addlepated idiot could have missed it.

B. The discplin policy is clearly defined in the FCPS Student Rights and Responsibilities handbook. A quick internet search on their discpline policy led me right to it, and I am neither a student or a parent of a student, so I can't imagine this info was never made available to the public.

C. The FCPS Hearing Office is utterly corrupt and NEVER EVER reverses a PRINCIPAL'S DECISION. NEVER EVER. NOT ONCE.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Madison Tom ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:13PM

HOLY SMOKES, DON'T YOU GET IT? THE HEARINGS OFFICE IS A POPULATED BY NOTHING BUT KIND, SAINTLY, VIRTUOUS, JUST, DECENT, HONORABLE, HONEST, SAINTLY, WISE, MOTHER THERESA TYPE NOBEL PEACE PRICE WINNERS WHO ARE ONLY INTERSETED IN THE WELFARE OF ALL CHILDREN IN THE FCPS SYSTEM. YOU REALLY HAVE TO PAY CLOSER ATTENTION.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Mrs. Mephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:19PM

Ok, so how long have the Hearing Officers been ignoring due process requirements?? How often do they reverse a decision by a Principal? Do they sell their decisions to the Principals? What were job performance evauations like? What are their hobbies? What was their job attendance record like? Did they abuse the leave program

The people defending them make it sound like they was innocently holding fair and impartial hearings for years and years and the public then decided burst in and forge their corrupt decisions and then to fuck up their life for shits and giggles.

It's called, or should be called, the Know-nothing Effect. The futher you are emotionally and empirically from the people who did something sinsiter, lawless, corrupt and stupid, and if it did not effect you at all, the more out of touch with reality you get.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Ura Dumphuk ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:28PM

My son, who had never been in trouble ever before in his life was suspended from FCPS for ten days. These brutal gestapo administrators searched his car without probable cause and found several plastic baggies of marijuana and a small claiber handgun. These nazi sons of bitches claimed my son was attempting to distribute drugs. Fine, his fingerprints were there, but he is not a drug dealer, he merely bagged up the marijuana for his own personal use so he would use rationally instead of over indulging. He was not smoking at school, he was only smoking after school. The "handgun" was a VERY small caliber .25 and was NOT loaded!! Can you imagine the absurdity? These fascistic bastards are something straight out of 1984.

We all know that George Bush and Barack Obama and Bill Clinton have smoked marijuana and used firearms. If it's good enough for them, why the double standard and the ruining of lives of our precious young? The only people who deserve drug tests and random searches are the school administrators and the police- that will show them what fascist hypocrites they all are.Let freedom ring!

Please, stop ruining our lives!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Ura Dumphuk ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:30PM

When is the school protest going to be? There will surely be at least a thousand strong all in solidarity against this police state school system!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: TomMadison ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:30PM

Madison Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOLY SMOKES, DON'T YOU GET IT? THE HEARINGS OFFICE
> IS A POPULATED BY NOTHING BUT KIND, SAINTLY,
> VIRTUOUS, JUST, DECENT, HONORABLE, HONEST,
> SAINTLY, WISE, MOTHER THERESA TYPE NOBEL PEACE
> PRICE WINNERS WHO ARE ONLY INTERSETED IN THE
> WELFARE OF ALL CHILDREN IN THE FCPS SYSTEM. YOU
> REALLY HAVE TO PAY CLOSER ATTENTION.


Did you sleep in today? Nearly 2pm before your first rebuttal post. As always they are quite stimulating and thought-provoking.

Just for future reference, it is 'Nobel Prize', not 'Price' and if you use a browser like Firefox or Chrome it will help you catch those pesky spelling errors.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:35PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/04/AR2009040402596.html

So, I read the article, and it turns out I was completely right.

"He had been caught leaving campus, going to Taco Bell with a friend. When the boys returned to South Lakes High in Reston, an assistant principal confronted them in the parking lot, smelled marijuana and had the car searched. This was the second time in two years that Josh, a junior, had been found with pot."

Also, the original post (SHOCK! SURPRISE!) left out relevant details like, "He killed himself before he even went to the hearing to find out if he was being expelled." Maybe the Hearing Officers would have shown leniency to him, but we'll never know.

Considering that the best responses you can come up with do not involve answering relevant questions but rather rewriting my posts to hold FCPS responsible, I feel like I've made my point.

You can keep piling on the bullshit though, because it's just so much fertilizer for my Lilies of Logic, Roses of Reason, and Tulips of Truth.

Yeah, you can quote me on that.

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13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: URANASSJHOLE ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:39PM

My dad, a former pot-using Nobel Peace Prize Winning FCPS Hearing Officer, who had never rendered an honest decision in his entire career, and routinely ignored due process requirements, excuplating facts, and exonerating evidence, recently imposed a two week suspension on a kid for smoking pot. Turns out the kid was accused by the Principal who claimed he saw him and immediately recommended him for expulsion. It turns out the kid was not in school at the time but at a doctors appointment. The kid had thirty witnesses including a sworn affadavit from the doctor but the enitre Hearings Office ignored all the evidence and my dad, the FCPS Hearing Officer suspended him anyway. And now those goddamn parents are complaining that their precious little Tommy was traeted unfairly. The press picked up the story and my dad, the Nobel Peace Prize Winnig FCPS Hearing Officer, was so stressed he had to smoke a joint!! What the phuk, man!???!!!


Stop calling us out for being miserable lowlife hypocritical scum and let my dad,v the pot-smoking Nobel Peace Prize Winnig Hearing Officer, harass, bully, torture, persecute whoever he wants! Stop interfering you meddlessome justice seekers!!!

YOU ARE RUINING OUR LIVES!!!
Please, stop ruining our lives!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: URANASSHOLE ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:39PM

My dad, a former pot-using Nobel Peace Prize Winning FCPS Hearing Officer, who had never rendered an honest decision in his entire career, and routinely ignored due process requirements, excuplating facts, and exonerating evidence, recently imposed a two week suspension on a kid for smoking pot. Turns out the kid was accused by the Principal who claimed he saw him and immediately recommended him for expulsion. It turns out the kid was not in school at the time but at a doctors appointment. The kid had thirty witnesses including a sworn affadavit from the doctor but the enitre Hearings Office ignored all the evidence and my dad, the FCPS Hearing Officer suspended him anyway. And now those goddamn parents are complaining that their precious little Tommy was traeted unfairly. The press picked up the story and my dad, the Nobel Peace Prize Winnig FCPS Hearing Officer, was so stressed he had to smoke a joint!! What the phuk, man!???!!!


Stop calling us out for being miserable lowlife hypocritical scum and let my dad,v the pot-smoking Nobel Peace Prize Winnig Hearing Officer, harass, bully, torture, persecute whoever he wants! Stop interfering you meddlessome justice seekers!!!

YOU ARE RUINING OUR LIVES!!!
Please, stop ruining our lives!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Madison Tom ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:41PM

Did you sleep in today? Nearly 2pm before your first rebuttal post. As always they are quite stimulating and thought-provoking.

Just for future reference, it is 'Nobel Prize', not 'Price' and if you use a browser like Firefox or Chrome it will help you catch those pesky spelling errors.

End I don't wanna hafta correct you again, you doltish bore.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: tubby ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:44PM

Hey URANASSHOLE, Father's Day is coming up soon!

June 21 to be exact....be sure to honor your dad on his day!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Mrs. Mephisto ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:45PM

So, I read the article, and it turns out I was completely right.

"The FCPS Hearing Office has NEVER EVER reversed a principal's decision. And about 30% of FC High School students admitted to smoking pot. And then of course, there is the silly little matter of the Vice Principal actually growing pot..."

Also, the original post (SHOCK! SURPRISE!) left out relevant details like, "He knew with 100% certainy that he would be expelled for doing exactly what many of the FCPS Hearings Officers and Principals did in their youth." The Hearing Officers would have shown no leniency to him, and this we know.

Considering that the best responses you can come up with do not involve answering relevant questions but rather rewriting my posts to hold FCPS responsible, I feel like I've made my point.

You can keep piling on the bullshit though, because it's just so much fertilizer for my Lilies of Logic, Roses of Reason, and Tulips of Truth.

Yeah, you can quote me on that, bub.

PS-Didn't you declare this thread "dead".

snicker

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: butty ()
Date: April 06, 2009 02:46PM

Hey tubby, Father's Day is coming up soon!

June 21 to be exact....be sure to honor your dad on his day!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Other school districts ()
Date: April 06, 2009 05:50PM

Why can't our School Board members do this????

School Board wants to see reduction in expulsions
School District expects to refer more than 5,000 students for expulsion this year
By Jean Reid Norman

Thu, Mar 26, 2009 (4:38 p.m.)


Clark County School District
Clark County School Board members would like to see principals expel fewer students from school.

The board discussed the Clark County School District’s discipline policy Wednesday during a special meeting called to air their concerns about the policy, which was enacted six years ago, before most of the members had been elected.

The policy requires mandatory expulsion for serious offenses, such as bringing a gun to school, arson or assault of a school employee. However, principals have discretion on whether to expel students on lesser offenses, such as alcohol use or verbal abuse.

Last school year, 4,607 students were recommended for expulsion, about 2,500 for serious offenses, said Associate Superintendent Edward Goldman, who oversees discipline in the district. He projected 5,330 students would be referred for expulsion this year.

Students may be allowed to attend behavioral schools during a disciplinary period, and then may apply to attend another regular high school. Students may also be referred to the Academy for Individualized Study, a School District program for individualized study online.

One problem is that the behavior schools are running out of space, Goldman said. The five sites have more than 200 students apiece, and the ideal number is 150 per campus, he said.

“We try not to close them and say we don’t have any more room,” Goldman said.

In addition, Goldman said, he thinks some less serious problems can be better handled at the regular school.

Board member Larry Mason said he was concerned about “arbitrary decisions by principals to expel students. A lot of new principals are not that well prepared to deal with students in their schools.”

Noting that the lion’s share of expulsion recommendations come in the seventh, eighth and ninth grades, board member Carolyn Edwards called the problem “a developing age issue.”

“These are kids acting out, because that is what kids do,” she said.

She asked School District staff to conduct an analysis to pinpoint the problem.

She and other board members expressed a concern about the greater proportion of black students who are recommended for expulsion.

In 2007-08, 31 percent of the students recommended for expulsion were black, but the School District population is only 14 percent black, school board member Linda Young said.

“I get calls from people who are angry and say, ‘If I don’t fight for my child now, he will end up in prison,’” she said. “They disconnect from the academic process and become behavioral problems.”

Board members debated at length how many chances students should be given. Most agreed a second chance should be enough. The safety of other students has to be protected, they said.

“I believe in second chances,” member Sheila Moulton said. “But we can’t have a revolving door — in and out.”

Member Deanna Wright said parents, ultimately, have to take responsibility.

“At some point, we have to say to parents, ‘We have done our job. It’s your responsibility to make sure your student does what needs to be done.’”

Board members said they also want to revise the district’s discipline policy to address cyber-bullying, which they said is becoming an increasing problem.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: TomMadison ()
Date: April 06, 2009 06:49PM

Madison Tom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HOLY SMOKES, DON'T YOU GET IT? THE HEARINGS OFFICE
> IS A POPULATED BY NOTHING BUT KIND, SAINTLY,
> VIRTUOUS, JUST, DECENT, HONORABLE, HONEST,
> SAINTLY, WISE, MOTHER THERESA TYPE NOBEL PEACE
> PRICE WINNERS WHO ARE ONLY INTERSETED IN THE
> WELFARE OF ALL CHILDREN IN THE FCPS SYSTEM. YOU
> REALLY HAVE TO PAY CLOSER ATTENTION.


Dd, whch s t? Y sm t b tlkng t bth sdes f th rgmnt. Lkng t s h y rspnd t ths.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Madison Tom ()
Date: April 06, 2009 07:57PM

Tom Madison wrote:

"DON'T YOU GET IT? THE HEARINGS OFFICE IS A MOB OF LAWLESS, VICIOUS, GUTLESS, BULLYING, TYRANNICAL COWARDS WHO WILLFULLY DESTROY THE LIVES OF INNOCENT TEENAGERS FOR THEIR OWN SATISFACTION AND AMUSEMENT. YOU REALLY HAVE TO PAY CLOSER ATTENTION."




Dd, whch s t? Y sm t b tlkng t bth sdes f th rgmnt. Lkng t s h y rspnd t ths.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: nellie ()
Date: April 07, 2009 08:29AM

Where do I sign up for the revolution against FCPS?

My child was INNOCENT of ALL CHARGES, yet he is counted in one of those statistics as GUILTY. There is no recourse, no due process and you might as well talk to the bricks when you try talking to the school.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Bart ()
Date: April 07, 2009 09:43AM

And nellie's experience is representative of hundreds, more likely thousands, of cases.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: yes we can ()
Date: April 07, 2009 10:05AM

The firestorm that these nazi tactics has caused is huge. I've received emails from as far away as Tibet and the West Bank and there are thousands of people around the globe who are aware of this situation in FCPS and opposed to this fascism.

Governor Tim Kaine would be wise to force the removal of Jack Dale and the entire FCPS board of supervisors. If he does not, maybe Barack Obama can place FCPS under federal control and reconstruct this nazi apparatus into a respectable institution of freedom and liberty

We demand capitol murder trials for all of those in FCPS involved. There is no bigger problem in the world today than this fascism in Fairfax VA.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: no we can't ()
Date: April 07, 2009 10:22AM

The public praise that these FCPS angels of mercy has caused is utterly breathtaking. I've haven't seen any press coverae at all; nope, not in the Sunday Washinton Post or The New York Times. And what's more, there are thousands of people around the county who are completely unaware of this situation in FCPS and stand opposed to thes Prince of Peace humanitarians carryin on their selfless crusades on behalf of the betterment of humankind.

Governor Tim Kaine would be wise to promote Jack Dale and the entire FCPS board of supervisors and have them serve as special envoys in the Middle East; there, they can finally bring Peace to that erstwhile troubled region. If he does not, maybe Barack Obama can place FCPS under federal control and reduce this Nobel Peace Prize Winning apparatus into a degenerate mob of ruthless nazi scum.

We demand the Congressinal Medal of Freedom for all of those in FCPS involved. There is no smaller problem in the world today than these Angels of Mercy in Fairfax VA.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Really????? ()
Date: April 08, 2009 07:45AM

Ura Dumphuk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My son, who had never been in trouble ever before
> in his life was suspended from FCPS for ten days.
> These brutal gestapo administrators searched his
> car without probable cause and found several
> plastic baggies of marijuana and a small claiber
> handgun. These nazi sons of bitches claimed my son
> was attempting to distribute drugs. Fine, his
> fingerprints were there, but he is not a drug
> dealer, he merely bagged up the marijuana for his
> own personal use so he would use rationally
> instead of over indulging. He was not smoking at
> school, he was only smoking after school. The
> "handgun" was a VERY small caliber .25 and was NOT
> loaded!! Can you imagine the absurdity? These
> fascistic bastards are something straight out of
> 1984.

This actually sounds like your son IS in real trouble and you have not even noticed. The problem with people always thinking its the system's fault is that they don't see who their children really are and what they are really doing out there. How can you actually think you have a good kid when he's smoking pot all the time and carrying a handgun? Get some counseling before it's too late.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: punked ()
Date: April 08, 2009 07:56AM

Really????? I think you've been punked.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Ura Dumphuk ()
Date: April 08, 2009 08:55AM

Really????? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ura Dumphuk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My son, who had never been in trouble ever
> before
> > in his life was suspended from FCPS for ten
> days.
> > These brutal gestapo administrators searched
> his
> > car without probable cause and found several
> > plastic baggies of marijuana and a small
> claiber
> > handgun. These nazi sons of bitches claimed my
> son
> > was attempting to distribute drugs. Fine, his
> > fingerprints were there, but he is not a drug
> > dealer, he merely bagged up the marijuana for
> his
> > own personal use so he would use rationally
> > instead of over indulging. He was not smoking
> at
> > school, he was only smoking after school. The
> > "handgun" was a VERY small caliber .25 and was
> NOT
> > loaded!! Can you imagine the absurdity? These
> > fascistic bastards are something straight out
> of
> > 1984.
>
> This actually sounds like your son IS in real
> trouble and you have not even noticed. The
> problem with people always thinking its the
> system's fault is that they don't see who their
> children really are and what they are really doing
> out there. How can you actually think you have a
> good kid when he's smoking pot all the time and
> carrying a handgun? Get some counseling before
> it's too late.

How dare you accuse my son of needing counseling! Do you suggest counseling for Barack Obama, George Bush or Bill Clinton who have all used pot? Do you suggest counseling for Al Gore III, Noelle Bush or Joe Biden's daughter who are drug users? You nazis have a ridiculous double standard of blind eyes and selective enforcement.

My sweet son is living in a Taliban world of pure terror because he knows if he is found with pot again at school that he will be tried in court and it can go on his permanent record. Maybe he does need counseling- from all of the trauma that these goose stepping brown shirts have inflicted upon him for the same innocent actions that almost every politician also does.

I am going to file a civil lawsuit against the nazi FCPS on behalf of my son and other who have been wronged.You are showing just how narrow-minded and hateful that you are.

You nazi supporters and collaberators are getting ridiculous with your insane and archaic rhetoric. You sound like broken records with your talk of rules and personal responsibility.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Jumes ()
Date: April 08, 2009 11:52AM

Maybe if this kids was a hair bit responsible?


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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: enough whining ()
Date: April 08, 2009 12:11PM

Ura Dumphuk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really????? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ura Dumphuk Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > My son, who had never been in trouble ever
> > before
> > > in his life was suspended from FCPS for ten
> > days.
> > > These brutal gestapo administrators searched
> > his
> > > car without probable cause and found several
> > > plastic baggies of marijuana and a small
> > claiber
> > > handgun. These nazi sons of bitches claimed
> my
> > son
> > > was attempting to distribute drugs. Fine, his
> > > fingerprints were there, but he is not a drug
> > > dealer, he merely bagged up the marijuana for
> > his
> > > own personal use so he would use rationally
> > > instead of over indulging. He was not smoking
> > at
> > > school, he was only smoking after school. The
> > > "handgun" was a VERY small caliber .25 and
> was
> > NOT
> > > loaded!! Can you imagine the absurdity? These
> > > fascistic bastards are something straight out
> > of
> > > 1984.
> >
> > This actually sounds like your son IS in real
> > trouble and you have not even noticed. The
> > problem with people always thinking its the
> > system's fault is that they don't see who their
> > children really are and what they are really
> doing
> > out there. How can you actually think you have
> a
> > good kid when he's smoking pot all the time and
> > carrying a handgun? Get some counseling before
> > it's too late.
>
> How dare you accuse my son of needing counseling!
> Do you suggest counseling for Barack Obama, George
> Bush or Bill Clinton who have all used pot? Do you
> suggest counseling for Al Gore III, Noelle Bush or
> Joe Biden's daughter who are drug users? You nazis
> have a ridiculous double standard of blind eyes
> and selective enforcement.
>
> My sweet son is living in a Taliban world of pure
> terror because he knows if he is found with pot
> again at school that he will be tried in court and
> it can go on his permanent record. Maybe he does
> need counseling- from all of the trauma that these
> goose stepping brown shirts have inflicted upon
> him for the same innocent actions that almost
> every politician also does.
>
> I am going to file a civil lawsuit against the
> nazi FCPS on behalf of my son and other who have
> been wronged.You are showing just how
> narrow-minded and hateful that you are.
>
> You nazi supporters and collaberators are getting
> ridiculous with your insane and archaic rhetoric.
> You sound like broken records with your talk of
> rules and personal responsibility.



AND YOU WENT TO HOW MANY SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS TO CHANGE THESE POLICIES PRIOR TO JUNIOR GETTING BUSTED????????????????? another self serving whiner

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Ura DumFuk ()
Date: April 08, 2009 01:44PM

And waaa, waaa, waaa, boo-hoo, boo-hoo, the Nazis killed a Jew or two. Just deal with it, you whiny self-absorbed brats! And The Rape of Nankin? I suppose more boo-hooing over that! Cry me a river why don't ya!!! Grow up and het over it!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Adolph Eichmann ()
Date: April 08, 2009 01:52PM

I agree; I am so sick are tired of these whiners villifying the Nazis. Damn it, don't they realize that exterminating Jews was perfectly legal in Nazi Germany. Perfectly legal. I mean, the law is the law and the rules are the rules. Same for these GGddamn abolitionists with their illegal underround railroad. Just a bunch of lawless terrorists. I mean, here again, slavery was perfectly legal and the Fugitive Slave Act placed serious legal obligations on the citizens of all the states!! How dare these Goddamn abolitionists aid an escaped slave in open defiance of the law!!! The rules are the rules!!!

Slaves and their incessant whininig, oh, boo-hoo, boo-hoo, we wanna be free, waaa, waaa ,waaa whine, whine, whine, when is it gonna end!!??

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: negro ()
Date: April 08, 2009 05:11PM

ya another good example, i feel bad am sorry to hear that but honestly they don't give a rat's ass, the kids out of the school and that's all they want.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Nita ()
Date: April 09, 2009 09:49AM

Yup

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: One strike rule in FCPS ()
Date: April 10, 2009 07:39AM

yes we can Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The firestorm that these nazi tactics has caused
> is huge. I've received emails from as far away as
> Tibet and the West Bank and there are thousands of
> people around the globe who are aware of this
> situation in FCPS and opposed to this fascism.
>
> Governor Tim Kaine would be wise to force the
> removal of Jack Dale and the entire FCPS board of
> supervisors. If he does not, maybe Barack Obama
> can place FCPS under federal control and
> reconstruct this nazi apparatus into a respectable
> institution of freedom and liberty
>
> We demand capitol murder trials for all of those
> in FCPS involved. There is no bigger problem in
> the world today than this fascism in Fairfax VA.

FCPS does not play fair. One strike and you are out, zero tolerance.

Who else has the same rules? City, State or Federal law? NO.

NFL, NO. MLB, NO. NHL, NO. Tell me what professional sport has the one strike rule? None. Yet FCPS does. Why?

How many lives has FCPS destroyed?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Chance the rules ()
Date: April 13, 2009 06:31AM

Zero Tolerance Kills Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not hesitate for a moment to say that FCPS
> has played a direct role in the death of one of
> our students.
>
> Last week, a junior at South Lakes High School
> hanged himself. He was a fine young man who
> played football at Langley High School but he did
> something that many FCPS students do. He smoked
> pot. FCPS caught him and threatened to expel him
> from school. They kept him out of school for
> weeks while the ZT police did all they could to
> destroy this young man. Then they pulled him from
> his friends and sent him to another school. And
> told him if he ever screwed up again they would
> throw him out of school forever.
>
> FCPS never acknowledges that the majority of our
> students experiment with drugs and alcohol. There
> is no drug testing of FCPS employees so we do not
> know how many employees use drugs. When a kid
> does it, makes a mistake, FCPS makes sure that
> they destroy the student emotionally.
>
> I am sickened by this school district. Every
> parent out there needs to know that this could be
> your kid. We must make sure that this does not
> happen again.
>
> Zero Tolerance is destructive. It lacks
> compassion and humanity and it kills our youth.
>
> Let's all say a prayer for this family and hold
> FCPS accountable.

Do not make this old news. Things must change regarding zero tolerance so that another student does not die.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: parrot ()
Date: April 13, 2009 07:07AM

Chance the rules Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zero Tolerance Kills Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I do not hesitate for a moment to say that FCPS
> > has played a direct role in the death of one of
> > our students.
> >
> > Last week, a junior at South Lakes High School
> > hanged himself. He was a fine young man who
> > played football at Langley High School but he
> did
> > something that many FCPS students do. He
> smoked
> > pot. FCPS caught him and threatened to expel
> him
> > from school. They kept him out of school for
> > weeks while the ZT police did all they could to
> > destroy this young man. Then they pulled him
> from
> > his friends and sent him to another school.
> And
> > told him if he ever screwed up again they would
> > throw him out of school forever.
> >
> > FCPS never acknowledges that the majority of
> our
> > students experiment with drugs and alcohol.
> There
> > is no drug testing of FCPS employees so we do
> not
> > know how many employees use drugs. When a kid
> > does it, makes a mistake, FCPS makes sure that
> > they destroy the student emotionally.
> >
> > I am sickened by this school district. Every
> > parent out there needs to know that this could
> be
> > your kid. We must make sure that this does not
> > happen again.
> >
> > Zero Tolerance is destructive. It lacks
> > compassion and humanity and it kills our youth.
> >
> > Let's all say a prayer for this family and hold
> > FCPS accountable.
>
> Do not make this old news. Things must change
> regarding zero tolerance so that another student
> does not die.


WOW Im glad you reiterated what a dozen other whiners have already said

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Parrot ()
Date: April 13, 2009 08:37AM

These brainless FCPS supporters whining about the criticism rearding Dale and his brownshirt FCPS nazis is getting old..

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Poppsr ()
Date: April 13, 2009 08:38AM

I know, there are dozens of these FCPS whiners....

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: please come back when you turn 18 or grow up ()
Date: April 13, 2009 10:20AM

Parrot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> These brainless FCPS supporters whining about the
> criticism rearding Dale and his brownshirt FCPS
> nazis is getting old..


Attention all non tax paying and not eligible to vote yet Fairfax County residents, Complimentary Clearisil samples will being handed out at the next school board hearing. Take a bath before attending please...each attendee accompanied by a taxpayer will be allowed 5 minutes to whine

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: confirmation ()
Date: April 13, 2009 01:13PM

I am the parent of a kid who went through the exact same thing a few years back in a Fairfax County High School. She was caught on the high school grounds with pot and the standard procedure then, and now,is suspension with a recommendation for expulsion for any offense like this. We had to go to FCPS hearings where she was then sent to another school for the remainder of semester (standard process if they do not expell you immediately). She stayed out of trouble, ditched the friends she was with who had the pot, and was able to return to her home school the next fall. She never again got in any trouble in school and graduated from her home school.

My point is YES, this is what happens to kids in ffx co. schools when they get caught with drugs. This is the standard process. In our case, this was the best thing that happened to our child, as it was a huge wake up call and sent her on the straight and narrow. In this case of the Langley boy, I was so sad to hear the outcome. I do think it has more to do with the child himself, and his experience and other things in his life/situation. My child had the exact same experience, and came through it fine without any repercussions, even was accepted to all of the colleges she applied to, having had to document her experience on applications. My heart goes out to his family, this is a devastating loss, but not one i would necessarily pin on FCPS.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: AboogaBoogaBoo..... ()
Date: April 13, 2009 01:32PM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's from the FCPS Students Rights and
> Responsibilities for a first time offense. It does
> not jive with what the OP wrote...
>
>
> The first violation for being under the influence
> of marijuana or any
> controlled substance including anabolic steroids,
> or for the illegal use of
> prescription drugs, or for possession of drug
> paraphernalia shall result in
> suspension from school for a minimum of five days
> and a maximum
> of ten days and suspension for 30 calendar days
> from all student
> activities, including teams, clubs, and all other
> school-sponsored
> activities. All illegal drug violations shall be
> reported to the police.
> The days of absence from school shall be excused,
> and makeup work
> shall be provided by the school during the period
> of suspension if the
> student and the parent or guardian agree to, and
> in a timely fashion
> subsequently participate satisfactorily in,
> appropriate substance abuse
> prevention-intervention activities designated by
> the school principal.
>
> FCPS would be in legal jeopardy if it went beyond
> this policy for a first-time offender. The OP is
> obviously leaving out information.


Nope, he isn't leaving out info. I had a friend in 9th grade, her first offense, bringing weed into school--was expelled.First she was suspended for like a month, while they were waiting to tell her what would happen, [those lil pricks, keeping her wondering wtf was going on!] then finally they were like "you're expelled, bye."
ti was her first offense--yet, she was expelled.
Actually, I have more friends than that who were expelled from that school for possession of marijuana, even on a first offense.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Captain Ahab ()
Date: April 13, 2009 02:01PM

AboogaBoogaBoo..... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WashingTone Locian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Here's from the FCPS Students Rights and
> > Responsibilities for a first time offense. It
> does
> > not jive with what the OP wrote...
> >
> >
> > The first violation for being under the
> influence
> > of marijuana or any
> > controlled substance including anabolic
> steroids,
> > or for the illegal use of
> > prescription drugs, or for possession of drug
> > paraphernalia shall result in
> > suspension from school for a minimum of five
> days
> > and a maximum
> > of ten days and suspension for 30 calendar days
> > from all student
> > activities, including teams, clubs, and all
> other
> > school-sponsored
> > activities. All illegal drug violations shall
> be
> > reported to the police.
> > The days of absence from school shall be
> excused,
> > and makeup work
> > shall be provided by the school during the
> period
> > of suspension if the
> > student and the parent or guardian agree to,
> and
> > in a timely fashion
> > subsequently participate satisfactorily in,
> > appropriate substance abuse
> > prevention-intervention activities designated
> by
> > the school principal.
> >
> > FCPS would be in legal jeopardy if it went
> beyond
> > this policy for a first-time offender. The OP
> is
> > obviously leaving out information.
>
>
> Nope, he isn't leaving out info. I had a friend in
> 9th grade, her first offense, bringing weed into
> school--was expelled.First she was suspended for
> like a month, while they were waiting to tell her
> what would happen, then finally they were like
> "you're expelled, bye."
> ti was her first offense--yet, she was expelled.
> Actually, I have more friends than that who were
> expelled from that school for possession of
> marijuana, even on a first offense.


I guess they are as smart as fish in the pond, when they see the first one get hooked , the others are still not smart enough to avoid doing the same....I would find some smarter friends

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: TG ()
Date: April 13, 2009 03:49PM

Yeah, President Obama shoulda found smarter friends too. He's a confessed pot smoker and it utterly ruined him.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Charges ()
Date: April 14, 2009 05:02AM

Dale and his staff have destroyed students and will continue to do so.

They should be charged with Josh's death and serve time.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: more FCPS bad press ()
Date: April 14, 2009 01:58PM

MORE MARC FISHER-Washington Post 4/13/2009


Zero Tolerance: Parents Talk Tough, But Are They Really?


We don't really know what we want. That's the conclusion of a social psychologist who decided it was time to test just how committed parents and others are to single-sanction, zero tolerance, tough love punishment regimens of the kind that many schools have adopted in the wake of a popular backlash against drug use by teenagers.

Colgate University psychologist Kevin Carlsmith looked at the consistent support for the University of Virginia's legendary honor code--an example, he posits, of a policy that "assigns extreme punishments for minor offenses." Under the code, any case of lying, cheating or stealing leads to expulsion. No lesser punishments are possible in the system. Carlsmith wondered why that system remains so popular and he theorized that people love the clarity and simplicity of the approach in the abstract, even if they are often offended by how it plays out in reality.

That's exactly the dichotomy I see in reader responses to my column last week about Josh Anderson, the Fairfax high school junior who killed himself on the eve of a disciplinary hearings that was likely to have ended with his expulsion for being on campus with a small amount of marijuana.

I've been hearing from hundreds of parents whose kids--like Josh--have gotten caught up in a punishment system that fails to distinguish between drug users and dealers.

A father in Fairfax whose son was found with less than a gram of marijuana and was expelled from school argues that the punishment far outweighed the crime and branded his son as a criminal, sapping his motivation and rendering him incapable of continuing his high-achieving path (the alternative school to which he was assigned lacked the Advanced Placement courses he had been enrolled in at his regular school.) The father says his son, in addition to completing a treatment program and a community service regimen, should be allowed to continue his education--the best possible way to get him past a rough period of adolescence. The system disagrees.

But I've also heard from parents such as this mother, whose son faced a different approach after he was found with a bong on school grounds: The senior and his family feared he'd be expelled, but his private school had a disciplinary regimen intended as much to educate as to punish, so he got a choice: Leave the school, or be suspended for a week and enter an intensive treatment program. "We will never be able to thank the school administration enough for how they handled the situation," the mother writes. "I am convinced they saved my child's life. I wish Josh Anderson had that opportunity." The student is now in college, healthy and thriving.

Carlsmith decided to look more closely at our attitudes toward tough punishment schemes.

Carlsmith found that most people choose punishments designed more for retribution than to create any deterrence against future wrongdoing. People often endorse punishment systems that they later decide--after they see them in action against real people--are unfair. "A person focused on deterring future crime ought to be sensitive to the frequency of the crime, the likelihood of its detection, the publicity of the punishment, and so forth," the professor writes.

The professor asked participants about a case like a real one in which a 13-year-old girl shared a Midol pill with a friend at school to relieve the friend's menstrual cramps. The 13-year-old was expelled for violating a school rule against distributing drugs. The survey asked whether expulsion or student-parent conferences with a guidance counselor would be the better response to such an incident. Once they heard the details of the Midol case, fully 88 percent of those who had earlier endorsed the idea of a zero tolerance policy reversed themselves.

As Carlsmith notes, "The key finding of this study is that people fail to recognize that the deterrence policy will violate their intuition of justice until after they see it in practice." That is, we like the idea of zero tolerance and don't realize how unfairly it can treat people until we are slapped in the face with the disproportionate results of what at first seemed like a clear and simple policy.

In the end, the psychologist concludes, "when it comes to introspection, we are all 'strangers to ourselves.'" Confronted with people going to jail for decades for stealing a kiddie video for a Christmas present, or for lifting a Snickers bar, Californians turned against the three-strikes, you're-out legislation that they had enthusiastically supported in theory. Similarly, parents who in theory like zero tolerance policies tend to turn against them when they see some dumb teen getting expelled for acting like the dodohead many 17-year-olds become.

In a fascinating postscript, Carlsmith asked whether people thought a school with a zero tolerance policy had a worse or less severe problem with drug use than a school with a more flexible approach to punishment. Those surveyed believed that the zero tolerance school had the more severe problem--showing once again that while we may like the idea of zero tolerance, we sense that it must represent a certain desperation. Is that what the Fairfax school board really wants to communicate about its schools?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: FDS ()
Date: April 14, 2009 02:23PM

The nazis at the FCPS Hearing Office are going to start to scurry like rats under the scrutiny of the press. The wretches in that office can't bully the presss like they do the families of students.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: welcome to your new school ()
Date: April 14, 2009 04:39PM

WHAAAA the crying continues, those 6 years of high school will be the happiest of your life...

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: DF ()
Date: April 14, 2009 04:49PM

WHAAAA the FCPS supporters continue their incessant whining and crying. Get over it already, your nazis are taking the beating they so richly deserve. God Bless Marc Fisher. Still, don't despair, those 7 years of high school you spent no doubt were the happiest of your lives...

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 14, 2009 05:02PM

file.php?2,file=3411
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Liy ()
Date: April 14, 2009 05:13PM

Gravis is trolling again. Yawn......

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Drop outs ()
Date: April 15, 2009 05:06AM

Did FCPS destroy two more lives?

In today’s Wash Post there was an article about a 19 year old murder victim that was killed by her 17 year old boy friend, an apparent Chantilly HS Dropout.

More failures by the FCPS system.

What does FCPS do to save students? Or do they take the easy way out and push students out the door.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 15, 2009 06:23AM

Drop outs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some ridiculous and uninformed bullshit.


read before being retarded and blaming fcps: http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/175850.html,page=all


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2009 06:24AM by Gravis.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: pirates ()
Date: April 15, 2009 07:08AM

Drop outs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did FCPS destroy two more lives?
>
> In today’s Wash Post there was an article about a
> 19 year old murder victim that was killed by her
> 17 year old boy friend, an apparent Chantilly HS
> Dropout.
>
> More failures by the FCPS system.
>
> What does FCPS do to save students? Or do they
> take the easy way out and push students out the
> door.


The other 12,000 that graduated last year must have just got lucky....

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: 5000 strong ()
Date: April 15, 2009 09:33AM

pirates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drop outs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Did FCPS destroy two more lives?
> >
> > In today’s Wash Post there was an article about
> a
> > 19 year old murder victim that was killed by
> her
> > 17 year old boy friend, an apparent Chantilly
> HS
> > Dropout.
> >
> > More failures by the FCPS system.
> >
> > What does FCPS do to save students? Or do they
> > take the easy way out and push students out
> the
> > door.
>
>
> The other 12,000 that graduated last year must
> have just got lucky....


Has anyone ever been to a Northern Region football game at say Westfield HS?

Pretty cool-5000 plus fans.

Well, guess what?

That's how many kids dropped out of Fairfax Conty Public Schools in the last four year. Over 1300 students per year drop out and move on to a life of poverty and probably crime.

If we are going to talk out successes then we damn well need to talk about failures-and 5000 kids dropping out is a massive FAILURE!!!

These kids don't disappear-although Jack Dale and The School Board seem to think they do. They become our problem.

We either do something now or we pay for it later.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: insightful comments ()
Date: April 15, 2009 10:15AM

The Commonwealth of Virginia parental guidelines on school discipline state that disciplinary actions are to be corrective in nature, and not punitive. Fairfax County Public Schools, then, are out of compliance, as, by definition, zero tolerance can't be corrective. It can't be corrective because it does not allow administrators to consider the "mens rea", "the thing in mind", which has underpinned our legal system and our cultural for millennia -- it's the principle behind trials. Good administrators are sandbagged by the practice (at least "officially"), while bad administrators can hide their incompetence behind its rigidity.

The odd thing about zero tolerance as a policy for school administration, though, is that it is an offshoot of a discredited and unsustainable theory of policing. In the 1980s and 90s, zero tolerance became something of a mantra for big city mayors, particularly one with national ambitions from New York. The idea was that arresting people for petty crimes would prevent bigger ones, and for a while, it seemed to work. Subsequent research showed, however, that the drop in crime was due primarily to both a temporary decline in the demographic most likely to commit street crime (teenage males) and the increase in police presence (in effect, community policing, perhaps the most effective strategy for crime prevention, and a practice often seen in good schools). In sum, zero tolerance proved ineffectual, and no less an august group the the American Bar Association has published papers and testified before Congress asking that it specifically be disallowed as a disciplinary policy in schools. Rather ironic, I would say, given the often stated position that zero tolerance policies hold back the hoards of angry, helicopter parents who would sue school systems into the ground. The option to sue has always been there, but the time and money required deter all but the well heeled.

The bleak truth is that (some) FCPS principals routinely skirt around this policy, invoking it when it suits their purposes, and ignoring it when it is politically prudent. I have seen this firsthand. This is a cruel form of cynicism and petty despotism which drove a young boy, really, to suicide; and many others to lose sight of the purpose of public school in the U.S., which is to learn how to be a good and productive citizen. Whim and caprice (coupled at times, I suspect, with racism and fear of the students) are hardly the foundation of sound educational policy.

Posted by: theITprofessor | April 14, 2009 7:31 PM

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Crazy Idea ()
Date: April 15, 2009 11:49AM

I'm going to throw a crazy idea out there - if you don't want FCPS to "ruin your life", how about not giving them the opportunity in the first place?

If you don't smoke weed and don't let others smoke weed in your car - you won't get busted by FCPS.

If you smoke weed, but leave the paraphenalia and weed off school grounds and don't come to school reeking like a DMB concert - you are also unlikely to be busted by FCPS.

This thread wouldn't even exist if these kids were smart enough not to toke up in the first place, or at the very least not do it under the gaze of BigBrother/FCPS.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: higher learning ()
Date: April 15, 2009 12:38PM

Key words in above post "smart enough". The losers who get busted are already on a long journey of excuse making , poverty and blame laying. It is identified early by trained FCPS staff and appropriate measures are taken ...

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Krazy Idea ()
Date: April 15, 2009 01:17PM

I'm going to throw a crazy idea out there - if you don't want FCPS to "ruin your life", how about not doing what millions of other Americans have done?

If you don't smoke weed and don't let others smoke weed in your car - you won't be like Bill Clinton. Al Gore, George W. Bush, Barak Obama and several FCPS Principals. They all smked weed too.

If you smoke weed, like Bill Clinton and Barak Obama,but leave the paraphenalia and weed off school grounds like they did, you are also unlikely to be busted by FCPS.

This thread wouldn't even exist if these kids, like Bill Clinton and Barak Obama, were smart enough not to toke up in the first place, or at the very least not do it under the gaze of BigBrother/FCPS.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Higher Learning ()
Date: April 15, 2009 01:21PM

Key words in above post "smart enough". The losers who smoke and get busted, like Bill Clinton and Barak Obama and George W. Bush,(remember now, W was convicted of drunk driving-Jesus, imagine what FCPS would do to him!!!!) were already on a long journey of excuse making , poverty and blame laying. It is identified early by shrill nasty FCPS nazis and appropriate measures are taken to exterminate the offenders....

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Swim Champ ()
Date: April 15, 2009 01:42PM

I wonder why the FCPS nazis haven't stripped Michael Phelps of his five, no wait six, no wait seven, no wait, EIGHT GOLD MEDALS. It was very funny watching the Maryland State Senate honor this pothead loser. The FCPS nazis musta been positively apoplectic, cuz everyone knows all potheads are losers who deserve to be demonized....

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: b ()
Date: April 15, 2009 02:05PM

Swim Champ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder why the FCPS nazis haven't stripped
> Michael Phelps of his five, no wait six, no wait
> seven, no wait, EIGHT GOLD MEDALS. It was very
> funny watching the Maryland State Senate honor
> this pothead loser. The FCPS nazis musta been
> positively apoplectic, cuz everyone knows all
> potheads are losers who deserve to be
> demonized....

Hes a doper goof ball as well

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Swim Champ ()
Date: April 15, 2009 02:15PM

Yeah, the greatest Olympic Athlete in the world is a "doper goofball". And one who has also been honored by the Maryland State Senate. You're beggin' pal.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: PR ()
Date: April 15, 2009 02:17PM

Donn't forget U.S. Senator Al Franken or Norm Coleman (whoever wins). Both are former pot users. Maybe the FCPS nazis will impeach them. LOL.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: jeez ()
Date: April 15, 2009 03:24PM

Listen to yourselves, please. Just because some people break the law and smoke pot and still achieve things, does not mean that it is ok to smoke pot. It is still against the law and against the county school system policy. So, if this is something you or your child must do, by all means go ahead, just be prepared to take your punishment if you get caught. Stop complaining. You read the rules, your kid read the rules, you both signed the rules and that's that.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Obama First ()
Date: April 15, 2009 03:54PM

PR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Donn't forget U.S. Senator Al Franken or Norm
> Coleman (whoever wins). Both are former pot users.
> Maybe the FCPS nazis will impeach them. LOL.

The FCPS Nazis should impeach obama because he did crack and smoked pot.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: You = Fool ()
Date: April 15, 2009 03:56PM

.
Attachments:
obama_one.jpg

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: I ()
Date: April 15, 2009 04:05PM

Listen to yourselves, please. Just because some people break the law and smoke pot and still achieve things, does not mean that it is ok to inflcit merciless cruelties on those young kids, even if such cruelties are the existing county school system policies. So, if this is something you or record-setting Olympic Athletes or Senators or Presidents must do, by all means go ahead, just be prepared to inflict the same punishment on them. Stop being such cowards; go after the powerful with the same relentless intensity you go after the powerless. Let's see how that works for ya. You read the rules to the President, your kid read the rules to Michael Phelps, you both signed the rules and that's that.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Rules ()
Date: April 15, 2009 05:17PM

I Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen to yourselves, please. Just because some
> people break the law and smoke pot and still
> achieve things, does not mean that it is ok to
> inflcit merciless cruelties on those young kids,
> even if such cruelties are the existing county
> school system policies. So, if this is something
> you or record-setting Olympic Athletes or Senators
> or Presidents must do, by all means go ahead, just
> be prepared to inflict the same punishment on
> them. Stop being such cowards; go after the
> powerful with the same relentless intensity you go
> after the powerless. Let's see how that works for
> ya. You read the rules to the President, your kid
> read the rules to Michael Phelps, you both signed
> the rules and that's that.

Then you need to read the rules to the NFL, MLB and the NHL.

Go NAZIS go.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: mr bieden ()
Date: April 15, 2009 05:48PM

Swim Champ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, the greatest Olympic Athlete in the world is
> a "doper goofball". And one who has also been
> honored by the Maryland State Senate. You're
> beggin' pal.


Wow he can swim faster than anybody, really affects my life, and ya he is a dolt for political photo ops

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: polly want a cracker ()
Date: April 15, 2009 05:50PM

I Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen to yourselves, please. Just because some
> people break the law and smoke pot and still
> achieve things, does not mean that it is ok to
> inflcit merciless cruelties on those young kids,
> even if such cruelties are the existing county
> school system policies. So, if this is something
> you or record-setting Olympic Athletes or Senators
> or Presidents must do, by all means go ahead, just
> be prepared to inflict the same punishment on
> them. Stop being such cowards; go after the
> powerful with the same relentless intensity you go
> after the powerless. Let's see how that works for
> ya. You read the rules to the President, your kid
> read the rules to Michael Phelps, you both signed
> the rules and that's that.

great peckerhead the parrot is back

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: another ZT nightmare ()
Date: April 15, 2009 06:09PM

An 11-year-old who took a cake knife to her elementary school this week will not be prosecuted, state authorities decided Friday. Advertisement Quantcast The student, Kasia Haughton, took the knife Wednesday to May B. Leasure Elementary School in Bear along with cakes and cupcakes. A teacher used the knife to serve the cake, then reported the girl for bringing a "deadly weapon" to school, her parents said. Kasia's father, Brian Haughton, called the state's decision "a great relief." He said the situation has been a learning experience for her and the family. She was suspended for five days and faced expulsion under the Christina School District policy that bans students from carrying weapons. District officials changed their minds Thursday and the suspension was dismissed. Kasia said she didn't know the knife was in the bag her grandmother packed before they left her mother's home in Centennial Village, off Del. 7 near U.S. 40 in Bear. The grandmother, Janice Harris, who drove her to the school on Church Road off U.S. 40, said she felt responsible for what happened because she didn't give the knife a second thought. She brought the cakes -- vanilla with white icing -- for Kasia's successful campaign for mayor of BizTown, a nonprofit Junior Achievement program that teaches about entrepreneurship, work habits and finances. Kasia's outraged parents said they complained to federal and state education departments and district officials, but they credited media inquiries such as those made by The News Journal for the reversal of discipline. District spokeswoman Wendy E. Lapham on Thursday said the error was based on uncertainty over whether Kasia handled the knife because the teacher cut the cake. District policy classifies any blade longer than 3 inches as a deadly weapon, regardless of its use. Students caught carrying or concealing them are subject to five days suspension. Parents or guardians also are notified of possible expulsion and police are contacted to file charges, the policy states. Delaware State Police Cpl. Jeff Whitmarsh said the district's required report was received but not substantiated before the suspension was reversed Thursday. On Friday, he said prosecution was declined after the "incident was reviewed by Delaware State Police detectives and also with the attorney general's office." State police will take no further action, he said. Advertisement Family members said they understand the need for school officials to be cautious, but added their reaction was out of proportion. They also said it was unfair -- and a bad example to students -- for the teacher to use the knife, serve the cake, then report Kasia knowing she would be suspended, possibly expelled. Lapham, who said another student could have used the knife to hurt someone, said district officials are "looking at this as a learning experience." Two years ago, the district expelled a seventh-grader who took a utility knife to school to cut paper for a class project. Her mother appealed but officials said the "zero tolerance" policy had to be consistent to be fair. Kasia's father said Friday he is happy district officials were more reasonable in her case. When he learned from The News Journal of the state's decision not to prosecute, he likened the matter to Friday's weather. "It rained earlier and now the sky has cleared up," he said. "Maybe it was a sign." Kasia learned many things from the incident, he said, including that "public outcry is something we shouldn't take for granted. "When you get other people involved, there is compassion out there and the world isn't as harsh as it may seem," he said. "There's still beauty in the world and a lot of compassion." But he said she also learned something else important: "First and foremost, she's knows now no knives should be brought to school -- of any kind."

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: beware of cheese parties ()
Date: April 15, 2009 06:14PM

Two weeks ago, a man entered my son’s high school carrying a knife. It was my husband. He was also carrying a pound of brie cheese and two boxes of crackers, all for my son’s French class presentation on the foods of France. At the hand-off in the high school lobby, my son noticed the small paring knife and reacted as if his father were passing him a live grenade or a kilo of cocaine. “I can’t believe you sent dad with a knife,” my son told me later. “Don’t you know that you can’t bring any kind of knives to school?” In my defense, I did know that high schools have zero tolerance for weapons. But I didn’t think the class would want to tackle a wedge of cheese with a ruler, so I sent the smallest knife I had. Not small enough, though. Chastened, no knife accompanied the cake I sent to school with my fourth-graders a few days later for the monthly teachers’ birthday celebration. I’m not sure if the teachers used their hands to tear off chunks, or if the principal keeps a private stash of sharp implements. I understand the need to maintain safety and discourage kids from bringing weapons to school. Deadly school shootings have made all of us more concerned about safety. Today, 91 percent of schools have zero-tolerance policies for weapons and 88 percent for drugs, according to a U.S. Department of Education survey. I also grasp the benefit of putting all students on notice and then imposing the same stiff penalties on all violators, regardless of circumstances. It eliminates the claim that some students get off lightly while others are treated more harshly. But it also eliminates common sense and discretion, and can make school officials appear inane. In Colorado, Cherry Creek school officials are taking a public lashing for the 10-day suspension of the commander of a Young Marines drill team in February for having the team’s prop rifles in her car. The high school senior was preparing for a competition at the Air Force Academy and had the prop guns in her car for her thrice-weekly practices. Similar situations have occurred in Florida. In 2007, a 10-year-old girl in Ocala faced a felony weapons charge because her lunch box contained a small knife to cut meat. Four years ago, an 11-year-old Hernando County girl was arrested, handcuffed and taken to jail for bringing a plastic butter knife to school. At the same school, a 15-year-old boy spent three weeks under house arrest for throwing a pencil that hit a custodian on the shoulder. Reacting to such cases, the Florida Legislature is looking at a law that would restore some common sense to zero-tolerance policies. In proposing Senate Bill 1540, Sen. Stephen Wise (R-Jacksonville) says he wants fewer kids funneled into the criminal justice system because they run afoul of Florida’s stringent zero-tolerance law. Under his bill, school officials rather than local police would deal with nonviolent misdemeanors so children wouldn’t end up with criminal records. Georgia has its own well-publicized examples of zero tolerance gone awry. In 2000, an 11-year-old Cobb student was slapped with a two-week suspension for bringing a Tweety Bird wallet on a 10-inch key chain to school. The district insisted that policy forced it to treat the novelty key chain as it would treat pellet guns, swords and brass knuckles. After a deluge of national media attention, none of it positive, Cobb reversed its ruling, lifted the suspension and cleared the girl’s disciplinary record. That same year, a Savannah high school suspended an Eagle Scout for having an ax and pocketknife in his car. The honors student had locked the ax in his trunk after using it for an off-campus scouting demonstration of proper handling. In addition to finishing the semester at an alternative school, the student lost his driver’s license for 90 days under a law that revokes the driving privileges of minors found with weapons at school. Given the possible consequences, the next time I send cheese to school, it probably ought to be Cheese Whiz.

Topics: Suspensions and Expulsions Zero Tolerance Police in Schools and School-Based Arrests

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: locale ()
Date: April 15, 2009 06:15PM

another ZT nightmare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An 11-year-old who took a cake knife to her
> elementary school this week will not be
> prosecuted, state authorities decided Friday.
> Advertisement Quantcast The student, Kasia
> Haughton, took the knife Wednesday to May B.
> Leasure Elementary School in Bear along with cakes
> and cupcakes. A teacher used the knife to serve
> the cake, then reported the girl for bringing a
> "deadly weapon" to school, her parents said.
> Kasia's father, Brian Haughton, called the state's
> decision "a great relief." He said the situation
> has been a learning experience for her and the
> family. She was suspended for five days and faced
> expulsion under the Christina School District
> policy that bans students from carrying weapons.
> District officials changed their minds Thursday
> and the suspension was dismissed. Kasia said she
> didn't know the knife was in the bag her
> grandmother packed before they left her mother's
> home in Centennial Village, off Del. 7 near U.S.
> 40 in Bear. The grandmother, Janice Harris, who
> drove her to the school on Church Road off U.S.
> 40, said she felt responsible for what happened
> because she didn't give the knife a second
> thought. She brought the cakes -- vanilla with
> white icing -- for Kasia's successful campaign for
> mayor of BizTown, a nonprofit Junior Achievement
> program that teaches about entrepreneurship, work
> habits and finances. Kasia's outraged parents said
> they complained to federal and state education
> departments and district officials, but they
> credited media inquiries such as those made by The
> News Journal for the reversal of discipline.
> District spokeswoman Wendy E. Lapham on Thursday
> said the error was based on uncertainty over
> whether Kasia handled the knife because the
> teacher cut the cake. District policy classifies
> any blade longer than 3 inches as a deadly weapon,
> regardless of its use. Students caught carrying or
> concealing them are subject to five days
> suspension. Parents or guardians also are notified
> of possible expulsion and police are contacted to
> file charges, the policy states. Delaware State
> Police Cpl. Jeff Whitmarsh said the district's
> required report was received but not substantiated
> before the suspension was reversed Thursday. On
> Friday, he said prosecution was declined after the
> "incident was reviewed by Delaware State Police
> detectives and also with the attorney general's
> office." State police will take no further action,
> he said. Advertisement Family members said they
> understand the need for school officials to be
> cautious, but added their reaction was out of
> proportion. They also said it was unfair -- and a
> bad example to students -- for the teacher to use
> the knife, serve the cake, then report Kasia
> knowing she would be suspended, possibly expelled.
> Lapham, who said another student could have used
> the knife to hurt someone, said district officials
> are "looking at this as a learning experience."
> Two years ago, the district expelled a
> seventh-grader who took a utility knife to school
> to cut paper for a class project. Her mother
> appealed but officials said the "zero tolerance"
> policy had to be consistent to be fair. Kasia's
> father said Friday he is happy district officials
> were more reasonable in her case. When he learned
> from The News Journal of the state's decision not
> to prosecute, he likened the matter to Friday's
> weather. "It rained earlier and now the sky has
> cleared up," he said. "Maybe it was a sign." Kasia
> learned many things from the incident, he said,
> including that "public outcry is something we
> shouldn't take for granted. "When you get other
> people involved, there is compassion out there and
> the world isn't as harsh as it may seem," he said.
> "There's still beauty in the world and a lot of
> compassion." But he said she also learned
> something else important: "First and foremost,
> she's knows now no knives should be brought to
> school -- of any kind."


Great post for the Kansas underground or whatever state this occured in, take it up with the appropriate jurisdiction,,,geez

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: no headaches allowed or else ()
Date: April 15, 2009 06:20PM

SAFFORD, Ariz. — Savana Redding still remembers the clothes she had on — black stretch pants with butterfly patches and a pink T-shirt — the day school officials here forced her to strip six years ago. She was 13 and in eighth grade. An assistant principal, enforcing the school’s antidrug policies, suspected her of having brought prescription-strength ibuprofen pills to school. One of the pills is as strong as two Advils. The search by two female school employees was methodical and humiliating, Ms. Redding said. After she had stripped to her underwear, “they asked me to pull out my bra and move it from side to side,” she said. “They made me open my legs and pull out my underwear.” Ms. Redding, an honors student, had no pills. But she had a furious mother and a lawyer, and now her case has reached the Supreme Court, which will hear arguments on April 21. The case will require the justices to consider the thorny question of just how much leeway school officials should have in policing zero-tolerance policies for drugs and violence, and the court is likely to provide important guidance to schools around the nation. In Ms. Redding’s case, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, in San Francisco, ruled that school officials had violated the Fourth Amendment’s ban on unreasonable searches. Writing for the majority, Judge Kim McLane Wardlaw said, “It does not require a constitutional scholar to conclude that a nude search of a 13-year-old child is an invasion of constitutional rights.” “More than that,” Judge Wardlaw added, “it is a violation of any known principle of human dignity.” Judge Michael Daly Hawkins, dissenting, said the case was in some ways “a close call,” given the “humiliation and degradation” involved. But, Judge Hawkins concluded, “I do not think it was unreasonable for school officials, acting in good faith, to conduct the search in an effort to obviate a potential threat to the health and safety of their students.” Richard Arum, who teaches sociology and education at New York University, said he would have handled the incident differently. But Professor Arum said the Supreme Court should proceed cautiously. “Do we really want to encourage cases,” Professor Arum asked, “where students and parents are seeking monetary damages against educators in such school-specific matters where reasonable people can disagree about what is appropriate under the circumstances?” The Supreme Court’s last major decision on school searches based on individual suspicion — as opposed to systematic drug testing programs — was in 1985, when it allowed school officials to search a student’s purse without a warrant or probable cause as long their suspicions were reasonable. It did not address intimate searches. In a friend-of-the-court brief in Ms. Redding’s case, the federal government said the search of her was unreasonable because officials had no reason to believe she was “carrying the pills inside her undergarments, attached to her nude body, or anywhere else that a strip search would reveal.” The government added, though, that the scope of the 1985 case was not well established at the time of the 2003 search, so the assistant principal should not be subject to a lawsuit. Sitting in her aunt’s house in this bedraggled mining town a two-hour drive northeast of Tucson, Ms. Redding, now 19, described the middle-school cliques and jealousies that she said had led to the search. “There are preppy kids, gothic kids, nerdy types,” she said. “I was in between nerdy and preppy.” One of her friends since early childhood had moved in another direction. “She started acting weird and wearing black,” Ms. Redding said. “She started being embarrassed by me because I was nerdy.” When the friend was found with ibuprofen pills, she blamed Ms. Redding, according to court papers. Kerry Wilson, the assistant principal, ordered the two school employees to search both students. The searches turned up no more pills. Mr. Wilson declined a request for an interview and referred a reporter to the superintendent of schools, Mark R. Tregaskes. Mr. Tregaskes did not respond to a message left with his assistant. Lawyers for the school district said in a brief that it was “on the front lines of a decades-long struggle against drug abuse among students.” Abuse of prescription and over-the-counter medications is on the rise among 12- and 13-year-olds, the brief said, citing data from the Office of National Drug Control Policy. Given that, the school district said, the search was “not excessively intrusive in light of Redding’s age and sex and the nature of her suspected infraction.” Adam B. Wolf, a lawyer with the American Civil Liberties Union, which represents Ms. Redding, said her experience was “the worst nightmare for any parent.” “When you send your child off to school every day, you expect them to be in math class or in the choir,” Mr. Wolf said. “You never imagine their being forced to strip naked and expose their genitalia and breasts to their school officials.” In a sworn statement submitted in the case, Safford Unified School District v. Redding, No. 08-479, Mr. Wilson said he had good reason to suspect Ms. Redding. She and other students had been unusually rowdy at a school dance a couple of months before, and members of the school staff thought they had smelled alcohol. A student also accused Ms. Redding of having served alcohol at a party before the dance, Mr. Wilson said. Ms. Redding said she had served only soda at the party, adding that her accuser was not there. At the dance, she said, school administrators had confused adolescent rambunctiousness with inebriation. “We’re kids,” she said. “We’re goofy.” The search was conducted by Peggy Schwallier, the school nurse, and Helen Romero, a secretary. Ms. Redding “never appeared apprehensive or embarrassed,” Ms. Schwallier said in a sworn statement. Ms. Redding said she had kept her head down so the women could not see that she was about to cry. Ms. Redding said she was never asked if she had pills with her before she was searched. Mr. Wolf, her lawyer, said that was unsurprising. “They strip-search first and ask questions later,” Mr. Wolf said of school officials here. Ms. Redding did not return to school for months after the search, studying at home. “I never wanted to see the secretary or the nurse ever again,” she said. In the end, she transferred to another school. The experience left her wary, nervous and distrustful, she said, and she developed stomach ulcers. She is now studying psychology at Eastern Arizona College and hopes to become a counselor. Ms. Redding said school officials should have taken her background into account before searching her. “They didn’t even look at my records,” she said. “They didn’t even know I was a good kid.” The school district does not contest that Ms. Redding had no disciplinary record, but says that is irrelevant. “Her assertion should not be misread to infer that she never broke school rules,” the district said of Ms. Redding in a brief, “only that she was never caught.” Ms. Redding grew emotional as she reflected on what she would have done if she had been told as an adult to strip-search a student. Dabbing her eyes with a tissue, she said she would have refused. “Why would I want to do that to a little girl and ruin her life like that?” Ms. Redding asked.

Topics: Zero Tolerance Human Rights Right to Adequate Education

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Polly wants a cracker ()
Date: April 15, 2009 08:04PM

"great peckerhead the parrot is back"

Oh great that peckerhead asswipe parrot is back

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: A ()
Date: April 15, 2009 08:07PM

Then you need to look at the White House and the Senate.

Go POTHEADS go.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: KJ ()
Date: April 15, 2009 08:09PM

"Wow he can swim faster than anybody, really affects my life, and ya he is a dolt for political photo ops"

Wow, the fact that you're an unathletic clumsy doofus really affects so many peoples lives. And yeah he is the greatest Olympic Athlete in the world.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 15, 2009 11:37PM

another ZT nightmare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The student, Kasia
> Haughton, took the knife Wednesday to May B.
> Leasure Elementary School in Bear along with cakes
> and cupcakes. A teacher used the knife to serve
> the cake, then reported the girl for bringing a
> "deadly weapon" to school


what a bitch.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Stupid educrats ()
Date: April 16, 2009 12:39AM

When did educrats become so stupid that they lack ALL common sense?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Drugs ()
Date: April 16, 2009 05:47AM

Stupid educrats Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When did educrats become so stupid that they lack
> ALL common sense?

Since they did drugs in school.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: registar ()
Date: April 16, 2009 07:01AM

Please contact your nearest ALT ED school for immediate enrollment, fat and stupid is no way to go through life son

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Registrar ()
Date: April 16, 2009 10:10AM

I'd bet 33% of FC HIgh School Principals used pot at some point in their youth.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: no way ()
Date: April 16, 2009 10:23AM

Registrar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd bet 33% of FC HIgh School Principals used pot
> at some point in their youth.


That is an absurd allegation-more like half.

Time to out the hypocrites. Who went to school with any of the FC administrators and knows they did drugs in high school???

The gloves are coming off folks. Our kids need to know the character (or lack thereof) of their accusers.

If FCPS refuses to budge on this draconian rules then the rules will apply to them as well.

Time to drug test ALL FCPS employees. Let's see who quits.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: April 16, 2009 10:55AM

I doesn't matter if the Principal, the President or God smoked marijuana-
they did not get caught with any herb at school TWICE

It's not what you do and get away with, it's what you get caught with.

Welcome to life. Enjoy!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Facts ()
Date: April 16, 2009 11:00AM

WingNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doesn't matter if the Principal, the President
> or God smoked marijuana-
> they did not get caught with any herb at school
> TWICE
>
> It's not what you do and get away with, it's what
> you get caught with.
>
> Welcome to life. Enjoy!

For your information not all students in FCPS who get caught are treated the same way. FCPS has different rules for some folks.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: NutWing ()
Date: April 16, 2009 11:54AM

I does matter if the Principal, the President, Senators and Olympic Champions smoked marijuana- and they all OPENLY ADMITTED IT

It's what you openly admit to doing and not what you get away with.

Welcome to life. Enjoy baby!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: WingNut ()
Date: April 16, 2009 11:58AM

NutWing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I does matter if the Principal, the President,
> Senators and Olympic Champions smoked marijuana-
> and they all OPENLY ADMITTED IT
>
> It's what you openly admit to doing and not what
> you get away with.
>
> Welcome to life. Enjoy baby!

Hide your stash a little better and your rich Mommy and Daddy won't have to spend their money on rehab

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: NutWing ()
Date: April 16, 2009 05:00PM

WingNut wrote:

"Hide your stash a little better and your rich Mommy and Daddy won't have to spend their money on rehab"

Better hide your stash a little better there little fella so your rich Mommy and Daddy won't have to spend their money on rehab. You little turd.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: April 17, 2009 12:31AM

whoops, wrong thread.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2009 12:33AM by Gravis.

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