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FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Zero Tolerance Kills ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:00AM

I do not hesitate for a moment to say that FCPS has played a direct role in the death of one of our students.

Last week, a junior at South Lakes High School hanged himself. He was a fine young man who played football at Langley High School but he did something that many FCPS students do. He smoked pot. FCPS caught him and threatened to expel him from school. They kept him out of school for weeks while the ZT police did all they could to destroy this young man. Then they pulled him from his friends and sent him to another school. And told him if he ever screwed up again they would throw him out of school forever.

FCPS never acknowledges that the majority of our students experiment with drugs and alcohol. There is no drug testing of FCPS employees so we do not know how many employees use drugs. When a kid does it, makes a mistake, FCPS makes sure that they destroy the student emotionally.

I am sickened by this school district. Every parent out there needs to know that this could be your kid. We must make sure that this does not happen again.

Zero Tolerance is destructive. It lacks compassion and humanity and it kills our youth.

Let's all say a prayer for this family and hold FCPS accountable.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: PresaCanario ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:03AM

Actions have consequences.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Date: March 20, 2009 10:06AM

I'm very skeptical that a one-time offense would result in this kind of treatment. Also, the kid must have had a bunch of other issues in addition to this if he would hang himself. God forbid friends or family could have played a role. Right?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:11AM

It's always sad when a youth is well hung in the wrong way.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Date: March 20, 2009 10:14AM

I think it is interesting that FCPS is unquestionably one of the best school districts in the country, but someone on here, probably the kid's friend or a family member, is saying something like "FCPS destroys another life."

Sorry, but I believe in personal responsibility. This kid obviously had major issues in his life. The pot thing may have been the final straw, but if it hadn't been this, it most likely would have been something else eventually. Instead of blaming the school district, maybe the OP could do something more constructive with his or her time to help the family.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: throw them all out of school ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:19AM

Based on FCPS student surveys:

21% of 10th graders admitted using pot.

38% of 12th graders admitted using pot.

The poster above is correct: "actions have consequences".

Let's expel all of them to show them we don't tolerate this type of behavior!!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:19AM

The source of the problem is an indefensable drug policy. The kid should have been held no more accountbale then if he was caught with beer. I think age also has to be considered when holding people accountable...kids today are held to a much higher degree of "accountability" then when I was growing up. I can personally think of at least 3 instances in my life that if held to today's standards of accountability could have altered my life drastically. It's just not right...I agrree the zero tolerence in combination with ridiculous laws and regulations is a death sentence for young people.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: ZT question ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:22AM

Does the zero tolerance policy apply to those caught holding/smoking/stoned w/pot anywhere at anytime or just if caught at school or on school grounds?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Date: March 20, 2009 10:22AM

School administrators are terrified of lawsuits from parents, especially rich ones. I have an incredibly hard time believing that FCPS moved a kid from Langley to South Lakes over one instance of smoking pot, Zero Tolerance or not.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: a solution to overcrowding ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:28AM

I have the solution for overcrowding!! We don't have any money for renovations or new construction, so here goes:

Based on the survey, students reporting alcohol consumption in the past 30 days:

4% of 6th graders
14% of 8th graders
27% of 10th graders
43% of 12th graders

Boot them all out. How about it, Zero Tolerance Nazis of FCPS? Let's hire more witches like Dana Scanlan, and kick out 30,000 students.

Think of all the money we will save? Then FCPS can be a national model for Zero Tolerance.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Schools have divine powers ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:30AM

ZT question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does the zero tolerance policy apply to those
> caught holding/smoking/stoned w/pot anywhere at
> anytime or just if caught at school or on school
> grounds?


If you read the students Rights and Responsibilities CRAP (not very many rights, by the way), you will see that FCPS can discipline kids for actions off school property as well.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: sLP ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:30AM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> School administrators are terrified of lawsuits
> from parents, especially rich ones. I have an
> incredibly hard time believing that FCPS moved a
> kid from Langley to South Lakes over one instance
> of smoking pot, Zero Tolerance or not.


This has actually happened more than once. There are several who have been moved for the same reason.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Date: March 20, 2009 10:33AM

Here's from the FCPS Students Rights and Responsibilities for a first time offense. It does not jive with what the OP wrote...


The first violation for being under the influence of marijuana or any
controlled substance including anabolic steroids, or for the illegal use of
prescription drugs, or for possession of drug paraphernalia shall result in
suspension from school for a minimum of five days and a maximum
of ten days and suspension for 30 calendar days from all student
activities, including teams, clubs, and all other school-sponsored
activities. All illegal drug violations shall be reported to the police.
The days of absence from school shall be excused, and makeup work
shall be provided by the school during the period of suspension if the
student and the parent or guardian agree to, and in a timely fashion
subsequently participate satisfactorily in, appropriate substance abuse
prevention-intervention activities designated by the school principal.


FCPS would be in legal jeopardy if it went beyond this policy for a first-time offender. The OP is obviously leaving out information.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Travis ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:33AM

Good thing he killed himself before he could kill other kids. (He is a South Lakes student after all, and is therefore a member of a violent street gang. Really. I heard it from my friend marge at the parlor.)

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Eastsider ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:33AM

I like how the punishment was being sent to South Lakes.

To where does FCPS banish students who fuck up at South Lakes?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: conVince ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:34AM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The source of the problem is an indefensable drug
> policy.
> I can personally think of at least 3
> instances in my life that if held to today's
> standards of accountability could have altered my
> life drastically.
> It's just not right...I agrree
> the zero tolerence in combination with ridiculous
> laws and regulations is a death sentence for young
> people.


For once we totally agree and jointly condemn the policies of Gerry Connelly and his demokrat successor Sharon Bulova that encourages and enforces these deadly rules. How many people have died in our county due to use of MJ? So far the application of the consequences of rules have killed more people than the thing they are trying to stop. How stupid is that?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:43AM

PresaCanario Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actions have consequences.

'Nuff said.

--------------------------------------------------------------
13 4826 0948 82695 25847. Yes.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: HebrewHammer ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:47AM

The kid killed himself because he got sent to a different school and didn't have any friends?
Are you shitting me?

The all-powerful FCPS was able to cut off all contact from his friends? Have you even seen how teenagers communicate? They don't talk to each other directly, they don't look each other in the eyes, they text and send IM's to each other, and leave messages on facebook. FCPS could have sent him to Alaska, and he wouldn't have noticed the difference.

He'd have found another reason to off himself if he was that unstable.

FCPS didn't kill him. They probably saved dozens of lives by keeping him out of school before he showed up at Langley with a trench coat and an AK-47, or graduated, went to college, couldn't make any friends there and went on a shooting spree.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: NAACP issues ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:50AM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> School administrators are terrified of lawsuits
> from parents, especially rich ones. I have an
> incredibly hard time believing that FCPS moved a
> kid from Langley to South Lakes over one instance
> of smoking pot, Zero Tolerance or not.


FCPS has this little problem called-discriminatory practices within their ZT machine. You see, they suspend/expel minority kids at a rate of 2-3 times their populations. When a White kid happens to fall into the discipline grinder, they have to throw the book at them so the stats don't look even worse.

There is a lot of arbitrary acts going on-the principals are given broad discretion on punishments. What a kid does at one school can result in a totally different punishment than if he did the same thing at another school.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: 2nd ()
Date: March 20, 2009 11:42AM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's from the FCPS Students Rights and
> Responsibilities for a first time offense. It does
> not jive with what the OP wrote...
>
>
> The first violation for being under the influence
> of marijuana or any
> controlled substance including anabolic steroids,
> or for the illegal use of
> prescription drugs, or for possession of drug
> paraphernalia shall result in
> suspension from school for a minimum of five days
> and a maximum
> of ten days and suspension for 30 calendar days
> from all student
> activities, including teams, clubs, and all other
> school-sponsored
> activities. All illegal drug violations shall be
> reported to the police.
> The days of absence from school shall be excused,
> and makeup work
> shall be provided by the school during the period
> of suspension if the
> student and the parent or guardian agree to, and
> in a timely fashion
> subsequently participate satisfactorily in,
> appropriate substance abuse
> prevention-intervention activities designated by
> the school principal.
>
> FCPS would be in legal jeopardy if it went beyond
> this policy for a first-time offender. The OP is
> obviously leaving out information.

If not mistaken, this child most recently was expelled from South Lakes for the same cause.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Whatrutalkingabout? ()
Date: March 20, 2009 11:44AM

conVince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The source of the problem is an indefensable
> drug
> > policy.
> > I can personally think of at least 3
> > instances in my life that if held to today's
> > standards of accountability could have altered
> my
> > life drastically.
> > It's just not right...I agrree
> > the zero tolerence in combination with
> ridiculous
> > laws and regulations is a death sentence for
> young
> > people.
>
>
> For once we totally agree and jointly condemn the
> policies of Gerry Connelly and his demokrat
> successor Sharon Bulova that encourages and
> enforces these deadly rules. How many people have
> died in our county due to use of MJ? So far the
> application of the consequences of rules have
> killed more people than the thing they are trying
> to stop. How stupid is that?


How do you figure this?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: JayBee ()
Date: March 20, 2009 12:18PM

Zero Tolerance does not kill.

ZTK said: "FCPS makes sure that they destroy the student emotionally."
The marijuana had nothing to do with it.

He certainly wasn't self-medicating some other undiagnosed mental health problem, like, oh I don't know, Depression? And I'm also not saying that the drugs killed him, either. Every person is responsible for their own actions, whether its smoking pot or hanging themselves.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Shadow ()
Date: March 20, 2009 12:38PM

The board expels just about any student that is recommended for expulsion. For example, In a meeting earlier this month they expelled 11 students, for various reasons. None of the cases presented received anything other than unanimous votes for expulsion. Whereas in the 1985/1986 school year there were a total of 14 explusions. Times are definitely different and there is no second chance.

But it doesn't take much, in 2001 five students were expelled for a senior prank involving baby oil on the floor evidently. Nothing to do with drugs, but they're gone anyway.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: kids need compassion ()
Date: March 20, 2009 12:43PM

This throw away mentality towards kids who screw up is really barbaric.

Kids make mistakes. That is part of growing up. They make bad choices.

As a society, we need to counsel them, display some compassion, and steer them on the right path.

Putting them out of school and not educating them for 6 weeks while a case is appealed is just plain stupid. It should not take that long.

The fact that 100% of all principal recommendations for expulsions are upheld by the hearings office is undemocratic. There is no fair and unbaised arbitrator hearing these cases.

The fact that parents can't even record the hearings is a violation of basic rights to have an official record of a proceeding.

The whole ZT office run by Eileen Graatan needs a serious overhaul. Either by us or by the courts.

Kids in FCPS are not given basic rights.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: AIG ()
Date: March 20, 2009 12:49PM

Shadow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The board expels just about any student that is
> recommended for expulsion. For example, In a
> meeting earlier this month they expelled 11
> students, for various reasons. None of the cases
> presented received anything other than unanimous
> votes for expulsion. Whereas in the 1985/1986
> school year there were a total of 14 explusions.
> Times are definitely different and there is no
> second chance.
>
> But it doesn't take much, in 2001 five students
> were expelled for a senior prank involving baby
> oil on the floor evidently. Nothing to do with
> drugs, but they're gone anyway.

How come hazing is taken place at SOCO HS and nothing is being done? What happend to zero tolerence? Is SOCO HS the favorites of Storck and Bradsher, therefore nothing happens to baseball players who perform hazing.

Are they like AIG, to big to fail? Or is it all about the money that is being given to Storck and Bradsher so that they look the other way.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life...?
Posted by: Teach Tolerance ()
Date: March 20, 2009 01:33PM

I agree that every person is responsible for their own actions, but we are talking about children, correct?

I think it's the responsibility of every parent, teacher, school administrator, etc. to have a strong committment to, and be invested in, expanding the knowledge of every school age child.

Tell me, what does a child learn from zero tolerance?

I think they learn that mistakes are not acceptable, adults (their caregivers) are not tolerant, and that getting caught (not the behavior) is the problem.

How does that process allow them to grow into loving, caring, productive adults, who contribute something positive to society? It doesnt, obviously.

I do not think FCPS is responsible for the suicide. I don't think they did anything to help prevent it either.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life...?
Posted by: Shadow ()
Date: March 20, 2009 01:35PM

Oh, you missed the fact that sports are the end all and be all of existence in high schools today. They interrupt classes for the idolization of the athletes, particularly the football players, and if oyu don't show up at the 'rallies' you get detention. Of course, they're going to let them do their hazing thing. They let them do ANYTHING!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: HebrewHammer ()
Date: March 20, 2009 01:38PM

kids need compassion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This throw away mentality towards kids who screw
> up is really barbaric.

Barbaric: Adj: possessing or characteristic of a cultural level more complex than primitive savagery but less sophisticated than advanced civilization

He was transferred to another school. How is that barbaric?


> Kids make mistakes. That is part of growing up.
> They make bad choices.

And then you punish them, to make them remember that they made a bad choice, and not to do it again. It's how we learn.

> As a society, we need to counsel them, display
> some compassion, and steer them on the right
> path.

What's the recidivism rate amongst juvenile offenders who have been treated this way?

> Putting them out of school and not educating them
> for 6 weeks while a case is appealed is just plain
> stupid. It should not take that long.

The system is backed up. Perhaps you could ask your fellow citizens to increase taxes to fund the appeals process?

> The fact that 100% of all principal
> recommendations for expulsions are upheld by the
> hearings office is undemocratic. There is no fair
> and unbaised arbitrator hearing these cases.

A. Where are you getting your numbers from?
B. We live in a REPUBLIC. We are not a democracy.
C. He had the right to appeal his case, which he did, as you mentioned above, which would involve "an unbiased arbitrator", so you are contradicting yourself

> The fact that parents can't even record the
> hearings is a violation of basic rights to have an
> official record of a proceeding.

You can't record any official county judicial hearing. It is recorded for you by the courts.

> The whole ZT office run by Eileen Graatan needs a
> serious overhaul. Either by us or by the courts.

Feel free to start the revolution, and step up to the plate.

> Kids in FCPS are not given basic rights.
Kids in public schools do not have basic rights as adults. In Loco parentis provides for the school to make decisions for a student.
They do not have unlimited rights to Free Speech, free press and fre expression, nor are they protected from unreasonable searches.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life...?
Posted by: Former Teacher ()
Date: March 20, 2009 01:44PM

Teach Tolerance Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I think it's the responsibility of every parent,
> teacher, school administrator, etc. to have a
> strong committment to, and be invested in,
> expanding the knowledge of every school age
> child.

You obviously haven't worked as a teacher, or know anyone who is one. Parents show little, if any involvement in their kid's lives, but when one of them screws up in school, it's obviously the teacher's fault, and not their own.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: whodoesnthaveaskeleton ()
Date: March 20, 2009 01:47PM

kids need compassion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This throw away mentality towards kids who screw
> up is really barbaric.
>
> Kids make mistakes. That is part of growing up.
> They make bad choices.
>
> As a society, we need to counsel them, display
> some compassion, and steer them on the right
> path.
>
> Putting them out of school and not educating them
> for 6 weeks while a case is appealed is just plain
> stupid. It should not take that long.
>
> The fact that 100% of all principal
> recommendations for expulsions are upheld by the
> hearings office is undemocratic. There is no fair
> and unbaised arbitrator hearing these cases.
>
> The fact that parents can't even record the
> hearings is a violation of basic rights to have an
> official record of a proceeding.
>
> The whole ZT office run by Eileen Graatan needs a
> serious overhaul. Either by us or by the courts.
>
> Kids in FCPS are not given basic rights.

+1

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: not so ()
Date: March 20, 2009 02:11PM

AIG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shadow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The board expels just about any student that is
> > recommended for expulsion. For example, In a
> > meeting earlier this month they expelled 11
> > students, for various reasons. None of the
> cases
> > presented received anything other than
> unanimous
> > votes for expulsion. Whereas in the 1985/1986
> > school year there were a total of 14
> explusions.
> > Times are definitely different and there is no
> > second chance.
> >
> > But it doesn't take much, in 2001 five students
> > were expelled for a senior prank involving baby
> > oil on the floor evidently. Nothing to do with
> > drugs, but they're gone anyway.
>
> How come hazing is taken place at SOCO HS and
> nothing is being done? What happend to zero
> tolerence? Is SOCO HS the favorites of Storck and
> Bradsher, therefore nothing happens to baseball
> players who perform hazing.
>
> Are they like AIG, to big to fail? Or is it all
> about the money that is being given to Storck and
> Bradsher so that they look the other way.


FCPS takes hazing quite seriously.

They even reported ONE hazing incident to the VA DOE for the school year 2007-08.

That is correct.

165,000 students, 199 schools, who knows how many sports teams, and ONE hazing incident.

So you see, it clearly does not exist in FCPS. Nope, not at all.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: witness to the abuse ()
Date: March 20, 2009 02:30PM

There was a case in an elementary school a few years back. A rather minor incident involving 5th graders. The boy teased several girls in the school-he would crawl under the desk and pinch them and kick them, etc...stupid, immature acts from a boy who probably used these ploys as a way to "flirt"-nothing out of the ordinary behavior of kids this age.

The girls decided to get back at this boy. At recess they all grabbed him and tickled him and held him.

I swear to God, the girls were charged with mob assault and were suspended. the principal did nothing to the boy (his mom was active in the PTA).

The next year the same boy was at it again teasing two other girls. Same story, he kicked at them (again, nothing serious)-the girls retaliated.

The girls were suspended from school and were recommended for expulsion for "assault". They missed 12 weeks of school. Again, the boy walked away unscathed. Numerous students came forward with statements that the boy was actually the aggressor-nothing.

The principal actually tore up one of the girls' written statement. She demanded that the girl write only what the girl did to the boy.

True story. the principal is still at the school. Betsey Fenske, the cluster person did nothing, Dan Storck, School Board member did nothing.

It was an abuse of power. There was no finding of fact, no common sense-punishment should fit the crime, etc.

This is how it is in FCPS folks-believe it.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Teach Tolerance ()
Date: March 20, 2009 02:41PM

kids need compassion Wrote:
> Kids make mistakes. That is part of growing up. They make bad choices.

HebrewHammer Wrote:
> And then you punish them, to make them remember that they made a bad choice, and not to do it again. It's how we learn.


Actually we learn when people show us love and compassion and dont abandon us or kick us out because we've made a mistake. Punishment for a first time offender of the type of things mentioned in this descussion does nothing but teach kids that they shoulndt get caught. It teaches them fear. It does nothing to teach them how to correct the behavior.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: where to begin ()
Date: March 20, 2009 02:48PM

HebrewHammer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kids need compassion Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This throw away mentality towards kids who
> screw
> > up is really barbaric.
>
> Barbaric: Adj: possessing or characteristic of a
> cultural level more complex than primitive
> savagery but less sophisticated than advanced
> civilization
>
> He was transferred to another school. How is that
> barbaric?
>

What is the point in tearing a child away from his "comfort zone" and support structure? I think most child psychologists would testify how damaging this is to a kid. Why do you think we pay millions of dollars transporting homeless kids to their base school? because study after study, says that kids staying in a school do better emotionally and academically.
>
> > Kids make mistakes. That is part of growing up.
>
> > They make bad choices.
>
> And then you punish them, to make them remember
> that they made a bad choice, and not to do it
> again. It's how we learn.

Punishment is fine as long as it is appropriate for the offense and it should be done with a sense of compassion. A system that teaches a kid that they are horrible for making a mistake is missing the "teachable moment" opportunity.
>
> > As a society, we need to counsel them, display
> > some compassion, and steer them on the right
> > path.
>
> What's the recidivism rate amongst juvenile
> offenders who have been treated this way?

Read the paper, pal. Read about that judge in PA who sent all those kids to juvenile work camps for minor offenses because he was getting kickbacks. Read about some of the facilities in FLA that were shut down because they were dangerous and led to the death of one of the kids.

Any youth advocate will tell you how awful our juvenile system is. It should come as no shock that these kids are repeat offenders.
>
> > Putting them out of school and not educating
> them
> > for 6 weeks while a case is appealed is just
> plain
> > stupid. It should not take that long.
>
> The system is backed up. Perhaps you could ask
> your fellow citizens to increase taxes to fund the
> appeals process?

FCPS is filled with petty offenses that the incompetent administrators at the school level should be handling.
>
> > The fact that 100% of all principal
> > recommendations for expulsions are upheld by
> the
> > hearings office is undemocratic. There is no
> fair
> > and unbaised arbitrator hearing these cases.
>
> A. Where are you getting your numbers from?


Call Eileen Graatan for verification. The hearing office just rubber stamps the principals. It would be rude for them to contradict their recommendation.


> B. We live in a REPUBLIC. We are not a
> democracy.
> C. He had the right to appeal his case, which he
> did, as you mentioned above, which would involve
> "an unbiased arbitrator", so you are contradicting
> yourself

With a 100% rate of upholding expulsion recommendations, how can you claim they have an unbiased arbitrator. Out of 1000 cases, wouldn't you think even one might be overturned? Just one? No prosecutor in the country has a 100% conviction rate.
>
> > The fact that parents can't even record the
> > hearings is a violation of basic rights to have
> an
> > official record of a proceeding.
>
> You can't record any official county judicial
> hearing. It is recorded for you by the courts.

Exactly and you would have a right to that recording by law. FCPS does not allow you to record it and they don't either. Gee, I wonder why???? Maybe they don't want the courts to know what goes on at these hearings.
>
> > The whole ZT office run by Eileen Graatan needs
> a
> > serious overhaul. Either by us or by the
> courts.
>
> Feel free to start the revolution, and step up to
> the plate.

I intend to.

>
> > Kids in FCPS are not given basic rights.
> Kids in public schools do not have basic rights as
> adults.


In Loco parentis provides for the school
> to make decisions for a student.
> They do not have unlimited rights to Free Speech,
> free press and fre expression, nor are they
> protected from unreasonable searches.

There is case law that clearly states that students do not abandon their rights at the schoolhouse door. FCPS Students Rights BS book does not usurp the US Constitution.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life...?
Posted by: Teach Tolerance ()
Date: March 20, 2009 02:53PM

Former Teacher Wrote:
> You obviously haven't worked as a teacher, or know anyone who is one. Parents show little, if any involvement in their kid's lives, but when one of them screws up in school, it's obviously the teacher's fault, and not their own.

It's interesting to me that you think I havent worked as a teacher or have friends who are teachers simply because I say that teachers should be committed to expanding the knowledge of their students. Isnt that a teachers job? PS - I said the same thing about parents.

When a child makes a mistake in school, the ADULTS involved in that child's life need to stop placing blame, and stop defending themselves from blame, and focus on helping that child learn what they need to learn in order to change the behavior. The way we react to a childs mistake is something they learn from as well.

The point is, zero tolerance teaches nothing.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: KeepOnTruckin ()
Date: March 20, 2009 03:58PM

The problem here is that weed is illegal. If weed were legalized, then this woul dnot have occurred.

California is realizing this, and capitalizing on it, since they are 50 billion in teh hole, they are legalizing weed so they can tax it and make some money. After all, the mexican drug cartel guy made enough money from drugs to get on the Forbes richest peopel list.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Pebbles ()
Date: March 20, 2009 05:02PM

This is a heartbreaking tragedy and the FCPS discplinary process is to blame; it is a farce. The discplinary administrators resemble modern day Gestapo agents; cruel, brutal, ruthless, and murderous. The proceedings themselves are similar to a Soviet show trial. I pity those who are caught in it.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: FCPS data ()
Date: March 20, 2009 05:04PM

I reviewed the data on the VA DOE on reported incidents. There were 833 offenses involving alcohol, tobacco, otc and illegal drugs (ATOD) for the 2007-08 school year. The schools with the highest incident rates are as follows:

Mclean High School 65
Fairfax High School 48
West Springfield HS 39
Mount Vernon Hs 33
Marshall HS 30
Woodson HS 26
Annandale HS 25
Lake Braddock SS 25
Robinson SS 24
Westfield 24

It would be interesting to see if all these kids were punished like the kid who hanged himself?

Did FCPS expel 65 kids from McLean HS for illegal substance possession?

Somehow I doubt it.

I guess we have a 30% usage rate for students so the ones we do catch we need to make examples out of them. Let's see how many other students FCPS can destroy. Waste no time School Board.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: playground rules ()
Date: March 20, 2009 05:14PM

witness to the abuse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The girls decided to get back at this boy. At
> recess they all grabbed him and tickled him and
> held him.
>
> I swear to God, the girls were charged with mob
> assault and were suspended.
>
> The next year the same boy was at it again teasing
> two other girls. Same story, he kicked at them
> (again, nothing serious)-the girls retaliated.
>
> The girls were suspended from school and were
> recommended for expulsion for "assault".


I guess the silver lining (hardly shiny, but there) is that if that kid keeps it up when he's older, the playground rules that FCPD kills off will still apply in high school and in adult life. He'll be in a hospital or have his car mysteriously torched and the participants at that age will know how to take care of his attitude without penalty to themselves. He'll get his, they all do.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Cal ()
Date: March 20, 2009 05:19PM

I too was a direct witness to the abuses of these unconscionable miscreants who administer the FCPS discipline procedures. The details of the case involved a student falsely accused of theft, who, though fully exonerated when the guilty party was discovered, was deprived of his fundamental right to due process. I agree that the process more closely resembles a Soviet Show Trial than an exercise in American Justice. Do you know that in FIVE FULL YEARS, these clowns NEVER, EVER have reversed A Principal's reccomendation of suspension. DISGUSTING.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Macy ()
Date: March 20, 2009 05:26PM

Several years ago there was a case of a Fairfax County Elemantary School Teacher smacking a kid and then having the system circle the wagonsin his defense. The filthy low-life scumbag Principal did nothing, and the parent was reduced to walking in fron of the school with a sign in protest.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: data analysis ()
Date: March 20, 2009 05:32PM

FCPS data Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I reviewed the data on the VA DOE on reported
> incidents. There were 833 offenses involving
> alcohol, tobacco, otc and illegal drugs (ATOD) for
> the 2007-08 school year. The schools with the
> highest incident rates are as follows:
>
> Mclean High School 65
> Fairfax High School 48
> West Springfield HS 39
> Mount Vernon Hs 33
> Marshall HS 30
> Woodson HS 26
> Annandale HS 25
> Lake Braddock SS 25
> Robinson SS 24
> Westfield 24
>
> It would be interesting to see if all these kids
> were punished like the kid who hanged himself?
>
> Did FCPS expel 65 kids from McLean HS for illegal
> substance possession?
>
> Somehow I doubt it.
>
> I guess we have a 30% usage rate for students so
> the ones we do catch we need to make examples out
> of them. Let's see how many other students FCPS
> can destroy. Waste no time School Board.



Since none of the six figure nitwits at FCPS/Gatehouse bother to look at the data, I will do their job for them:

Mclean HS had 65 incidents involving ATOD possession in 2007-08-the highest of the 25 high schools. Also keep in mind there are only 1800 students at this school.Let's see how many of these kids were expelled from school, shall we?

In 2007-08 there was ONE (1) expulsion from McLean High School and it was unrelated to the ATOD cases. 57 of the violations for ATOD resulted in NO PUNISHMENT. the rich White kids got off free and clear.

Now let's take a looksy at Mount Vernon High School. One of our high poverty schools with a much higher minority population:

Mt. Vernon reported just 33 ATOD violations. Funny thing is, 20 of these resulted in significantly harsher penalties. These kids were given modified expulsion and long-term suspensions (more than 10 days of school missed). Just 7 of these resulted in no punishment.

Now I am not a civil rights attorney or anything, but this sort of selective punishments that appear to inflict significantly harsher penalties on minorities would be enough to raise some eyebrows.

Maybe the Justice Department should look into these disriminatory practices.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: details? ()
Date: March 20, 2009 05:58PM

A few questions...

does anyone know-

1. Where was he smoking the weed?
2.What is the name of the youth/family?
3.What does the family have to say?
4.Where is the story in the press?
5.What are the names of the FCPS employees involved in this case...both at the school based level and the central administration hearing office?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: justice for all ()
Date: March 20, 2009 06:12PM

Let's look at what happens to kids at Annandale HS and West Springfield HS if they get in a fight (assault against student):

Annandale HS reported 86 violations in this catagory for 2007-08. Of the 86 violations, 75 resulted in short-term suspensions (about 87%) and just 9 cases (10%) resulted in no punishment.

At West Springfield HS they reported 57 incidents in this catagory. 39 resulted in NO PUNISHMENT -which is nearly 70%!!!. Just 16 resulted in short term suspensions.

Basically, if you want to beat the hell out of one of your fellow students do it at West Springfield HS because you have a 70% chance of getting off scott free, while 90% of cases at Annandale will get you thrown out of school.

It is so comforting to see that Dr Dale is running a fair and just disciplinary system for the students.

Too bad we can't see the data broken down by race, because I bet we will see some interesting patterns in FCPS.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: bus driver ()
Date: March 20, 2009 07:17PM

Zero Tolerance Kills Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> .....There is no drug testing of FCPS employees so we do not
> know how many employees use drugs. When a kid
> does it, makes a mistake, FCPS makes sure that
> they destroy the student emotionally.


I work for FCPS and I must submit to random drug and alcohol tests. I've taken up to three in a single school year. Just had one this week, including Breathalyzer.

The penalty for failing the test, or refusing to take it, is immediate dismissal.
Sort of like ZT, eh?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: how about everyone? ()
Date: March 20, 2009 07:32PM

bus driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zero Tolerance Kills Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > .....There is no drug testing of FCPS employees
> so we do not
> > know how many employees use drugs. When a kid
> > does it, makes a mistake, FCPS makes sure that
> > they destroy the student emotionally.
>
>
> I work for FCPS and I must submit to random drug
> and alcohol tests. I've taken up to three in a
> single school year. Just had one this week,
> including Breathalyzer.
>
> The penalty for failing the test, or refusing to
> take it, is immediate dismissal.
> Sort of like ZT, eh?


What about the teachers, administrators, School Board members?

Are they tested? Those are the ones who pass judgement on the students if they get into trouble.

I guess since FCPS had the pot growing asst principal in Centreville Elem School arrested last year we know that they are not tested.

I think it is reasonable to drug test someone who drives a school bus.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: VAViking ()
Date: March 20, 2009 07:46PM

The thing I find interesting in the data that FCPS Data provided is that Westfield only recorded 24 incidents in 2007-2008. Wasn't this about the same time they had that heroin ring operating out there? Didn't they have a bunch of former and current students buying, using and selling heroin? If you want to have some real fun, go check out some of the threads about Westfield in the FU.

What is also interesting is that no one mentioned gang activity in these high schools, particularly West Springfield. Of the 57 assaults at WSHS, I wonder how many were gang-related. Remember what happened over at Hayfield (which wasn't even on the list)? Back in 2007, there were several students who were caught in a gang initiation ceremony where they were "beating in" a new recruit. The identity of the gang was never revealed in any of the stories I read in the Post or the Connection.

Basic fact - discipline in the FCPS is uneven, unequal and arbitrary. Some kids get away with literal murder while other kids get the book thrown at them for the most trivial offenses. This is true now and it was true back when I went through the system in the early 80's.

People looked the other way at Westfield (24) and jumped all over everybodies shit at McLean (65). The kids at McLean may have not been expelled, but at least it was reported AND I bet their parents really jumped all over their shit when they got home.

Which school had 20 current and former students arrested in a heroin ring? Which school had two of it's former students OD on heroin?

It's too bad about the kid, but as it had been said here several times - Actions have consequences.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: bus driver ()
Date: March 20, 2009 07:48PM

how about everyone? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about the teachers, administrators, School
> Board members?
>
> Are they tested? Those are the ones who pass
> judgement on the students if they get into
> trouble.
>
> I guess since FCPS had the pot growing asst
> principal in Centreville Elem School arrested last
> year we know that they are not tested.
>
> I think it is reasonable to drug test someone who
> drives a school bus.

I don't know which employees are drug tested. The OP said, "There is no drug testing of FCPS employees..."

I was merely pointing out that that's bullshit.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: kids are smarter than we think ()
Date: March 20, 2009 08:15PM

If we are going to have a disciplinary system than it needs to be fair across all the schools. We need independent and objective folks giving out the punishment-not some biased principal whose decision might very well be based on whether they like the kid (or his/her parents) or not.

If a kid steals an Ipod at Langley than they get the same punishment as a kid from Falls Church.

It is no wonder that kids don't respect authority-they see what a joke the system is.

No kid should ever feel so bad about his actions that he takes his own life. This school district needs to take ownership of this tragedy and make damn sure it never happens again.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: too much power ()
Date: March 20, 2009 08:30PM

Let's compare 3 middle schools within FCPs and see if there is consistency in the punishment vs. the crime:

Irving Middle School had 38 assaults/fights against students. 10 or 26% resulted in NO punishment.

Key Middle School had 51 assaults/fights against students. 3 or just 6% resulted in no punishment.

Longfellow Middle School had 42 assaults/fights against students. 21 or 50% resulted in no punishment.

In summary, a kid at Key has a 94% chance of being punished while a kid at Longfellow has just a 50/50 shot.

This is just stupid. I can't believe noone in Dale's office bothers to look at these gross injustices.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Shadow ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:01PM

Key probably has a higher percentage also because of the high number special education students. Historically, the special ed students have more problems than the general pop. I believe there was even an article in the post about it a while ago.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: me - my story ()
Date: March 20, 2009 10:53PM

January 29th i got caught with a baggie of Mary Jane residue in my car at Westfield. while being detained i was yelled at, and questioned by police and security guards.
during the whole time i kept asking to speak to my mom, wanting to call her and the assistant principal and police officer Munoz denied my right to speak to my MOTHER.

I received a 10 day suspension and recommended for expulsion. I went to my school hearing February 11th, 13 days after the initial incident, Dana Scanlan was the lead person. after not telling who i was with her whole personality changed like a light switch and turned into the biggest Bitch in the world. She didn't want to ask any more questions so i read a statement expressing my sorrow and bad judgement i used that day, truly heartfelt. I asked to be placed in another FCPS high school like Centreville or Chantilly

I then waited and waited, and waited some more until February 26th for the decision. They decided to send me to Mountain View Alternative High School until the 2nd semester of my senior year. For anyone who does not know... Mountain View is for delinquents, because of my age i would be attending school with 17-26 year olds. My family and I appealed the decision and had to wait until March 24th for their final decision.

Thanks to my Loving parents we found a school that would accept me with my new blemish on my record. I since have moved to Delaware and now attend a real high school. My first day in my new school was March 12th, a whooping 42 days - 6 weeks out of school. I had to take an SAT fresh off no school and had to give up my reffing job because i can not go onto FCPS property until im 22! I will give props to FCPS teaching wise. I am by FAR the smartest 11th grader in alllll my classes. So too-shay for that

Dana Scanlon stated that i am a GRAVE DANGER to students at school. She is a Bitch who deserves to be portrayed and viewed precisely as one. I would like to add this was my very first time being in trouble with FCPS and was active in school activities, whether sports, SGA, ect, you name it.



This is my story with some biased opinions, im curious to hear anyone, and everyones reaction because my actions do not seem to warrant such extreme actions. I mean seriously an empty bag of Marijuana Residue!!!! hold the phones i am a danger to everyone around me i might bring an axe to school and chop off everyones heads.

ITS MARIJUANA. ok im getting worked up over the past.
side note: im not suicidal and i miss all my friends and even my family cuz im living with an aunt but God Bless Fairfax County maybe the good people can run these bastards out of town. FUck FAirfax County Public SChools suck my left nut.

peace

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: HIJACKER ()
Date: March 20, 2009 11:25PM

So, the kid is doing something wrong, is punished by suspension and/or expulsion from the school and for his own reasons commit suicide and you feel the school district is responsible?? HAHA.. that's ridiculous.

Just because the MAJORITY may break the law doesn't make it ok, or reason to lighten a punishment. If kids start understanding there are consequences for their actions, maybe the fad will actually fade away.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: govt ()
Date: March 20, 2009 11:32PM

im not saying its the school systems fault. its a dumb thing to be illegal. therefore the Federal Government is to blame dumb laws will result in enlightened people to disobey. weed should not result in expulsion, and being taken away from your surrounding, friends, family,ect,

if someone is depressed or seems likely to commit suicide don't you think barring him from friends is the complete wrong thing to do?

its kids were talking about cut them some slack

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: you ()
Date: March 21, 2009 12:43AM

I thought you moved to Germany

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: March 21, 2009 04:20AM

file.php?2,file=4778
"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: WPP ()
Date: March 21, 2009 07:03AM

They're sent to Westfield for Advanced Criminology.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: March 21, 2009 08:12AM

VAViking Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing I find interesting in the data that FCPS
> Data provided is that Westfield only recorded 24
> incidents in 2007-2008. Wasn't this about the
> same time they had that heroin ring operating out
> there? Didn't they have a bunch of former and
> current students buying, using and selling heroin?
> If you want to have some real fun, go check out
> some of the threads about Westfield in the FU.
>
> What is also interesting is that no one mentioned
> gang activity in these high schools, particularly
> West Springfield. Of the 57 assaults at WSHS, I
> wonder how many were gang-related. Remember what
> happened over at Hayfield (which wasn't even on
> the list)? Back in 2007, there were several
> students who were caught in a gang initiation
> ceremony where they were "beating in" a new
> recruit. The identity of the gang was never
> revealed in any of the stories I read in the Post
> or the Connection.
>
> Basic fact - discipline in the FCPS is uneven,
> unequal and arbitrary. Some kids get away with
> literal murder while other kids get the book
> thrown at them for the most trivial offenses.
> This is true now and it was true back when I went
> through the system in the early 80's.
>
> People looked the other way at Westfield (24) and
> jumped all over everybodies shit at McLean (65).
> The kids at McLean may have not been expelled, but
> at least it was reported AND I bet their parents
> really jumped all over their shit when they got
> home.
>
> Which school had 20 current and former students
> arrested in a heroin ring? Which school had two
> of it's former students OD on heroin?
>
> It's too bad about the kid, but as it had been
> said here several times - Actions have
> consequences.


This has more assumptions and false info than the the bail out plan, what happens off school property ie: heroin ring arrests and usage is not controlled or subject to discipline by the school anymore than a student getting a traffic ticket in their neighborhood. You need to look beyond the stats and numbers, they dont even begin to paint a real picture of what is going on in schools . And there is a problem with schools reporting bad behavior so that they get "their shit jumped in at home"? Too bad it doesnt happen more often, But then again this is Fairfax County where counselors, teachers and the police are expected to raise the children correctly while Mom and Dad are "living their lives"

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Shadow ()
Date: March 21, 2009 08:26AM

That's bullshit. The school's shove school work down the poarents throats these days, it is NOT anything like when I went to school in the eighties. If anything, the teachers have so much less to do with actual teaching of the kids than anyone else they interact with. And if your kid gets a long term sub, it's day care and that's it, no teaching, no real lessons, day care, and crappy daycare at that. All courtesy of your tax dollars at work.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Stan ()
Date: March 21, 2009 09:56AM

This student was expelled from Langley and was offered South Lakes as an alternative. He probably was offered or received counseling as well. If not, then shame on mom, dad, family. The staff at South Lakes made his new school a welcoming environment despite his mistake. He was a starter on the football team where his coaches took interest and cared about him. He made many new friends. The teachers never viewed him in poor light and treated him kindly. It really was his to screw up and low and behold because he did not learn his lesson or he had other issues, he messed up again. It should have been no surpirse to the family how the system would have reacted the second time around.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Hahaha ()
Date: March 21, 2009 10:11AM

First of all, the kid is a pussy.
Second, we're all better off because he's gone. It's one less useless citizen we won't have to pay for when he grows up and does more fucked up thing.

In the original post you described that the "majority of students experiment with drugs and alcohol." Where did you get these facts?
He fucked up, he got what he deserved, and he was a pansy who took the easy way out, Good riddance.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: me-haha ()
Date: March 21, 2009 11:35AM

you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought you moved to Germany

nahhhhhhh your thinking of Calab... almost the same shit happend to him, but not quite.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: question? ()
Date: March 21, 2009 11:45AM

Who is Dana Scanlon?
Did your parents contact Dale or the school board about this?
Had/have your parents contacted a lawyer?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: newspaper ()
Date: March 21, 2009 11:48AM

Has the Washington Post run a story on this topic?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: answer ()
Date: March 21, 2009 12:23PM

question? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who is Dana Scanlon?
> Did your parents contact Dale or the school board
> about this?
> Had/have your parents contacted a lawyer?


Dana Scanlon is the FCPS administrative appeal officer. A few people have stated that she has never ever reversed an appeal which is true.

During my appeal of their decision i got another chance to re-tell my story and it goes to the school board. In addition to my letter sent to the S.B Dana Scanlon also sends a letter with her recommendation. She was attacking and very nasty. The things i admitted to would be stretched and fabracated to make me look like a no good druggie who may well be using heroine, coke, ect. She was trying to paint a completely wrong picture of me, and i had almost no control because the school board will most definitely take her word over mine i would think?

My parents did contact a lawyer. He recommended during the School Hearing not to incriminate myself by telling who i was with, ect ,ect. i took that advice, not snitching on anyone and that honestly hurt more then helped. I dont think a lawyer would help with any other matters with this whole ordeal though would i?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Shadow ()
Date: March 21, 2009 12:33PM


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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: March 21, 2009 02:22PM

conVince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The source of the problem is an indefensable
> drug
> > policy.
> > I can personally think of at least 3
> > instances in my life that if held to today's
> > standards of accountability could have altered
> my
> > life drastically.
> > It's just not right...I agrree
> > the zero tolerence in combination with
> ridiculous
> > laws and regulations is a death sentence for
> young
> > people.
>
>
> For once we totally agree and jointly condemn the
> policies of Gerry Connelly and his demokrat
> successor Sharon Bulova that encourages and
> enforces these deadly rules. How many people have
> died in our county due to use of MJ? So far the
> application of the consequences of rules have
> killed more people than the thing they are trying
> to stop. How stupid is that?


Im afraid the origins of zero tolerance originate a little closer to conservative thinkers then liberal...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_tolerance

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Crybabys suck ()
Date: March 21, 2009 02:54PM

Hold FCPS accountable? For what? Enforcing the rules?

Maybe I'm painting with too broad a paintbrush, but if this kid wasn't sparking up in the first place then he wouldn't have been bounced into another school, correct?

I'm going to sound like my 82-year-old grandmother for a quick second and say this: If "many FCPS students" jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge, would you? It's cheesy, but it makes the point. The "everybody's doing it" arguement is asinine. Don't want to get tossed from school for smoking pot? Then don't smoke pot. Don't break the rules if you're not prepared to deal with the consequences of your actions.

My heart goes out to the family, because I know what it's like to lose someone close. Zero Tolerance Kills . . . stop your whining.


Zero Tolerance Kills Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do not hesitate for a moment to say that FCPS
> has played a direct role in the death of one of
> our students.
>
> Last week, a junior at South Lakes High School
> hanged himself. He was a fine young man who
> played football at Langley High School but he did
> something that many FCPS students do. He smoked
> pot. FCPS caught him and threatened to expel him
> from school. They kept him out of school for
> weeks while the ZT police did all they could to
> destroy this young man. Then they pulled him from
> his friends and sent him to another school. And
> told him if he ever screwed up again they would
> throw him out of school forever.
>
> FCPS never acknowledges that the majority of our
> students experiment with drugs and alcohol. There
> is no drug testing of FCPS employees so we do not
> know how many employees use drugs. When a kid
> does it, makes a mistake, FCPS makes sure that
> they destroy the student emotionally.
>
> I am sickened by this school district. Every
> parent out there needs to know that this could be
> your kid. We must make sure that this does not
> happen again.
>
> Zero Tolerance is destructive. It lacks
> compassion and humanity and it kills our youth.
>
> Let's all say a prayer for this family and hold
> FCPS accountable.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: no crying here ()
Date: March 21, 2009 03:12PM

I was suspended for a year for having residue in my car and im not whinning about zero tolerance saying it kills because if u commit suicide u obviously killed yourself...

but with that being said zero tolerance is just ignorant. it can take good kids with loving parents and the want to do good, even if its your very FIRST time offending any SR&R rules you are going to be suspended and expelled. Period. because of corrupt School board appealing officials there is no room for trying to improve ones life, but punishing to the max, and being kicked out of school for 6 weeks. does any of that make sense to you? it sure does not to me.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: pgens ()
Date: March 21, 2009 03:36PM

Expelled on first offense is ridiculous and way over the top. Everyone can make a mistake or screw up... take the guesswork out and do automatic expulsion on the second offense. That will silence the "too harsh, he was just a kid!" critics as well as (hopefully) avoid the no-way-out situations the rules are presenting to teens.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: extreme ()
Date: March 21, 2009 03:43PM

Zero tolerance seems very extreme to me. Half of the kids that went to my high school (FCPS 1980) wouldn't have made it to graduation. Taking kids out of school just leads them down a more destructive path. I wonder if anyone on the school board and specifically Dana Scanlon ever inhaled.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: no asians doing drugs ()
Date: March 21, 2009 04:31PM

Not a single "american" name. Not only excellent in math, but apparently good artists as well. Funny

http://commweb.fcps.edu/newsreleases/newsrelease.cfm?newsid=1103

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Poppy ()
Date: March 21, 2009 05:05PM

no asians doing drugs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not a single "american" name. Not only excellent
> in math, but apparently good artists as well.
> Funny
>
> http://commweb.fcps.edu/newsreleases/newsrelease.c
> fm?newsid=1103


Oh yeah, you never hear about those Asian heroine drug rings and crack markets, or what is that other stuff? ummm, hashish hmmmm, isn't this where most drug use began? Uh, good try, though, with the bookmark diversion.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: March 21, 2009 05:39PM

pgens Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Expelled on first offense is ridiculous and way
> over the top. Everyone can make a mistake or
> screw up... take the guesswork out and do
> automatic expulsion on the second offense. That
> will silence the "too harsh, he was just a kid!"
> critics as well as (hopefully) avoid the
> no-way-out situations the rules are presenting to
> teens.

Lets see, all FCPS students, at least mine had to sign a yellow book with the rules explaining the zero tolerance policy and the consequences for having drugs on school property. As I recall I had to sign it and send it back also.So there are no mysterys about what will happen to you when you get caught.So according to some our NASA recruits on here, they are pissed they got caught and think all the adult employeess who are paid to enforce these rules, singled them out with their personal agendas,,,, it cant be allowed to happen, therefore I will place the call for them....

Dispatcher: Hello, 911 center , what is your emergency?

Caller: Yes I cant seem to accept any personal responsibility for my actions and need a Whambulance!

Dispatcher: OK sir, please remain calm, and stop the name calling, what is your address?

Caller: Delaware

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: equal for all ()
Date: March 21, 2009 05:50PM

I believe the majority of intelligent folks posting here are making the point about the policies of FCPS not being equally enforced...that is what needs to be examined. To keep on complaining about children who clearly made a poor choice is ineffective.

If students are held to a standard, so should the adults employed by FCPS. Perhaps drug testing should begin for all employees. I think the results would be quite interesting.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: March 21, 2009 06:07PM

equal for all Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe the majority of intelligent folks
> posting here are making the point about the
> policies of FCPS not being equally enforced...that
> is what needs to be examined. To keep on
> complaining about children who clearly made a poor
> choice is ineffective.
>
> If students are held to a standard, so should the
> adults employed by FCPS. Perhaps drug testing
> should begin for all employees. I think the
> results would be quite interesting.


I agree with the drug testing but what does that have to do with the policy?You go to the Fairfax county court for a ticket on 3 different days, you will probably see 3 different judges and have 3 different outcomes, there are over 100 schools and principals in the county and all make individual decisions based on the facts they are given by their staff and the cops.What you have are several uninformed students who think they received unfair treatment as compared to what they heard " Johhny" got,,,,

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: "delaware" ()
Date: March 21, 2009 06:11PM

watchinyou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pgens Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Expelled on first offense is ridiculous and way
> > over the top. Everyone can make a mistake or
> > screw up... take the guesswork out and do
> > automatic expulsion on the second offense.
> That
> > will silence the "too harsh, he was just a
> kid!"
> > critics as well as (hopefully) avoid the
> > no-way-out situations the rules are presenting
> to
> > teens.
>
> Lets see, all FCPS students, at least mine had to
> sign a yellow book with the rules explaining the
> zero tolerance policy and the consequences for
> having drugs on school property. As I recall I had
> to sign it and send it back also.So there are no
> mysterys about what will happen to you when you
> get caught.So according to some our NASA recruits
> on here, they are pissed they got caught and think
> all the adult employeess who are paid to enforce
> these rules, singled them out with their personal
> agendas,,,, it cant be allowed to happen,
> therefore I will place the call for them....



No, no, no, no. you state ALL adult employee's are out to get the trouble makers that simply is not true. I never stated that and no one else has. Dana Scanlon sure is paid to cut off the legs of children so their future can be as difficult to overcome as ever.

Not saying she is singling ME out but every single "problem" child she comes across considering she has NEVER reversed a suspension/expulsion recommendation.

I did not come on here to gain moral support or to whine about my specific situation, i read what happened to the South Lakes student and it simply brings anger to me with what FCPS are doing. Light needs to be spread to the corruption.

Thinking i can't accept my personal responsibility?? Listen up i smoked weed every day it was apart of my life consistently, was i harming anyone or a grave danger any other day i was not caught? defiantly not. I since stopped cheifing(smoking) and am becoming real successful in my new school. big whoop.

Me not accepting personal responsibilities is false. The School Board and appeal officials need to look in the mirror and stop thinking about pleasing every principal and trying to look real strong and tough and actually think what is good for each individual child.
fuck the system and fuck you watchinyou fag

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: March 21, 2009 06:36PM

Ill be sure to copy and forward to all the school boards members individually on March 23rd to show your remorse and ability to mature ,.....

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: alias for Dana S. ()
Date: March 21, 2009 06:42PM

Is "watchinyou" really Dana Scanlon?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: please.. ()
Date: March 21, 2009 06:45PM

hahahah!!! please please please do! im in a whole-nother state now at a school where my GPA shot up .3 points just b/cuz of my classes i took in Fairfax County. As i said in a prior post I got nothing but love for all the teachers because I'm the most prepared kid in my new school.

but in all seriousness send it maybe they will understand how dumb they are and gain some common sense.

Be sure to address your fax, copy or w.e to make sure it reaches Dana Scanlon - let he know the anonymous poster on Fairfax Underground told her to Suck my Big Dick then to stick a finger up her butt-hole. that is what she would be great at doing! :) thank you!

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: haha!! ()
Date: March 21, 2009 06:45PM

alias for Dana S. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is "watchinyou" really Dana Scanlon?


hahahah come to think of it seems like it

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: March 21, 2009 06:46PM

what do you think? youre the person with all the answers,

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: me- ()
Date: March 21, 2009 06:52PM

obviously i think yes.

but in reality i dont have all the answers. i have common sense. its great when you have to deal with ignorant people.

You are like Solja Boy and i am like Lupe Fiasco. just doesn't compare

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: March 21, 2009 07:01PM

Maybe you should subcribe to Delaware underground, Doesnt sound like you will be joining us at The View anytime soon...

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: incorrect ()
Date: March 21, 2009 07:05PM

nah my rents still live in VA. il be back weekends, summer time, and numerous other times. thanks for looking out though.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 21, 2009 09:32PM

Stan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > This student was expelled from Langley and was offered South Lakes as an alternative. He probably was offered or received counseling as well. If not, then shame on mom, dad, family. The staff at South Lakes made his new school a welcoming environment despite his mistake. He was a starter on the football team where his coaches took interest and cared about him. He made many new friends. The teachers never viewed him in poor light and treated him kindly. It really was his to screw up and low and behold because he did not learn his lesson or he had other issues, he messed up again. It should have been no surpirse to the family how the system would have reacted the second time around.< <

What arrogant, condescending crap. Especially since you clearly did not know this kid.

Why was an assistant principal sweeping detritus off the floor of this kid's car, as reported by the kid's friends? That's "kind treatment"!?

Why is FCPS more interested in destroying as many kids' lives as possible instead of helping them make good choices and become well functioning adults?

This tragedy is a failure by every adult involved, including FCPS and SLHS.

It is disturbing how many posters are ready to vilify this minor. One reason society doesn't hold minors to adult standards of conduct is because they don't have requisite mental and emotional abilities to conform to those standards: they make bad choices and mistakes.

One would hope even the most hateful among the posters here would agree that forfeiting a 16 year old's life over grass seeds and leaf fragments on the floor of his car is extreme even for FCPS.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: extreme ()
Date: March 21, 2009 10:21PM

Completely agree with you Thomas More. Watchinyou, did you inhale? Why are you so rigid?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: VAViking ()
Date: March 22, 2009 12:24AM

Watchinyou wrote in response to my post:

>This has more assumptions and false info than the the bail out plan, what happens off school property ie: heroin ring arrests and usage is not controlled or subject to >discipline by the school anymore than a student getting a traffic ticket in their neighborhood.
>You need to look beyond the stats and numbers, they dont even begin to paint a real picture of what is going on in schools .
>And there is a problem with schools reporting bad behavior so that they get "their shit jumped in at home"?
>Too bad it doesnt happen more often, But then again this is Fairfax County where counselors, teachers and the police are expected to raise the children correctly while >Mom and Dad are "living their lives"

First - FCPS has unevenly enforced their policies for years. This isn't an assumption or false info, it's a damn fact born out by the numbers and everyone can pull it up. Everyone freaking knows it. An incident that would cause a warning in one school (McLean) is punished with expulsion in another (Mont Vernon) and ignored in a third (Westfield).

Second - "What happens off of school property.." Look nitwit, if someone is snorting or whatever off school property, it is a pretty good assumption they are doing it on school property as well. Back in my day, the "stoner set" used to light up behind the gym as well as get high off school property. That heroin ring was operating for years WHILE they were at Westfield. Read the damn posts about it and other incidents that have occurred there. Better yet, read the newspapers.

The point that most people here have made (which you have completely ignored) is that FCPS doesn't follow it's own polices. We all know that if you're a "golden child," FCPS will let them get away with literal murder while throwing the book at another child for the same crime. If your mommy and daddy has the right political connections or if you are a starting quarterback, you could probably toke up in the principal's office and just get a slap on the wrist. Anyone else gets the book thrown at them. Anyone who's been through the grinder of the FCPS knows this. That's not an assumption or false info, it's a damn fact.

One other thing. We don't expect the FCPS to raise our children, but we do expect you to educate them. We pay a hell of a lot in taxes for you to do so and based on the posts I've seen written by these kids, you've completely failed.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: March 22, 2009 09:17AM

amazing how you could be present in 3 different high schools to watch individual cases all go through the system with completely different results. And as far as "its a pretty good assumption that they are doing it on school property" , that is about as valid as the cop coming to your house and arresting you for something he assumes you are doing. That completely contradictes the very fairness of due process you are ranting about. Come around and look at the real world, as long as they are humans involved, every case will not be a carbon copy of the other.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Skooly D ()
Date: March 22, 2009 10:53AM

Zero Tolerance destroys lives. We who would otherwise grow up to be normal, contributing members of our society are shunned and doors are shut in our faces. When you have less opportunities to improve yourself you are put into a position were you have been rejected and pushed towards drug and alcohol abuse. Now you have a teenager with no school to go to during an eight hour day. Great job FCPS, your just creating more and more criminals without addressing any of the real problems in our schools.

Can't wait to move away from this police state.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Date: March 22, 2009 10:56AM

Skooly D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zero Tolerance destroys lives.

And looking the other way while kids get into drugs doesn't?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Hitler in FCPS ()
Date: March 22, 2009 11:27AM

Skooly D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zero Tolerance destroys lives. We who would
> otherwise grow up to be normal, contributing
> members of our society are shunned and doors are
> shut in our faces. When you have less
> opportunities to improve yourself you are put into
> a position were you have been rejected and pushed
> towards drug and alcohol abuse. Now you have a
> teenager with no school to go to during an eight
> hour day. Great job FCPS, your just creating more
> and more criminals without addressing any of the
> real problems in our schools.
>
> Can't wait to move away from this police state.

Jack Dale is HITLER reborn.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: me- ()
Date: March 22, 2009 12:07PM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Skooly D Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Zero Tolerance destroys lives.
>
> And looking the other way while kids get into
> drugs doesn't?


The solution would not be to look away and turn a blind eye. Case by case first time offenders if somebody has Advil/ibuprofen in school you give him some sort of detention... If somebody has marijuana he/she receives Saturday school 2-4 times... If your dealing with pain pills a suspension might be warranted... If somebody brings coke/heroine onto the school property suspension/expulsion. Or something to that degree. Zero Tolerance ignores facts that lead petty shit to lead to expulsion.

Instead of picking and choosing expel this kid, suspend this kid, lets not do anything to this kid, they should lay down a strict set of laws and what to expect if you do something. There is to much guess work going on today where one kid can have Coke on him and go to another fcps and another will have marijuana and have to go to an alternative high school. The facts just do not add up.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 22, 2009 12:29PM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > And looking the other way while kids get into drugs doesn't?< <

There's the central fallacy of NT. Treating ibuprofen, alcohol and grass the same as meth, cocaine and heroin. Not all drugs pose the same health or societal risk.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: ty ()
Date: March 22, 2009 12:57PM

thank you Thomas More, thank you.


Now how do we change the polices in place?

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 22, 2009 02:18PM

ty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thank you Thomas More, thank you.
>
> Now how do we change the polices in place?

We have to change the SB. This SB is broken and dysfunctional. We can only change it by changing the way we choose SB candidates.

For the foreseeable future, the school board will be controlled by those endorsed by FCDC. FCDC has got to stop looking at SB as the minor leagues in which to groom people to run for "higher" office.

The SB and FCPS controls 57% of the County budget, the last time I checked. Now that the County is built out it may well be that the BOS is the minor leagues.

FCDC has got to change the endorsement process to be open and transparent for 2011.

FCDC has got to create a committee focused on FCPS, the local issues committee which rarely meets cannot serve this function.

Endorsement of district school board members has to be made by the district committees of FCDC who better know what's going in local schools.

FCDC should only endorse the at large candidates who have been vetted by a FCPS committee of FCDC.

BTW,participation in PTAs and PTOs is not a prerequisite to SB qualification. Personnel and curriculum discussions are generally off limits to PTA/PTOs. Yet these are the very issues that are at the heart of running a school system. Too many PTA/PTO people I have encountered over the last 25 years of dealing with them are sycophants to administrators. The comedic stereotype is based in reality. That's a broad generalization and doesn't apply to every PTO/PTA officer but at the very least it creates a rebutable presumption on any PTO/PTA person who seeks SB position to show their willingness to criticize the current administration and do something different.

Just some initial thoughts on changing a failing system.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: March 22, 2009 05:35PM

Skooly D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Zero Tolerance destroys lives. We who would
> otherwise grow up to be normal, contributing
> members of our society are shunned and doors are
> shut in our faces. When you have less
> opportunities to improve yourself you are put into
> a position were you have been rejected and pushed
> towards drug and alcohol abuse. Now you have a
> teenager with no school to go to during an eight
> hour day. Great job FCPS, your just creating more
> and more criminals without addressing any of the
> real problems in our schools.
>
> Can't wait to move away from this police state.


Stop the whining and move on, Cant be a productive member of Society because they moved you to another high school??? Please! Believe me if thats the biggest roadblock you encounter in life , you are lucky,,,

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Thomas More ()
Date: March 22, 2009 05:56PM

watchinyou Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stop the whining and move on, Cant be a productive member of Society because they moved you to
> another high school??? Please! Believe me if thats
> the biggest roadblock you encounter in life , you
> are lucky,,,

I am so sick of your misanthropic bovine excrement. Go read another blog or thread if you have nothing to contribute except hatred and bile.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2009 05:58PM by Thomas More.

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: March 22, 2009 05:57PM

please.. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> hahahah!!! please please please do! im in a
> whole-nother state now at a school where my GPA
> shot up .3 points just b/cuz of my classes i took
> in Fairfax County. As i said in a prior post I got
> nothing but love for all the teachers because I'm
> the most prepared kid in my new school.
>
> but in all seriousness send it maybe they will
> understand how dumb they are and gain some common
> sense.
>
> Be sure to address your fax, copy or w.e to make
> sure it reaches Dana Scanlon - let he know the
> anonymous poster on Fairfax Underground told her
> to Suck my Big Dick then to stick a finger up her
> butt-hole. that is what she would be great at
> doing! :) thank you!

Dont think you are anoymous as you might assume,,,,,,,

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Re: FCPS destroys another life
Posted by: Skooly D ()
Date: March 22, 2009 06:39PM

Watchinyou your an asshat why don't you eat shit along with your holier than thou attitude you douche.

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