Somebody brought up some questions while discussing the Principal Parking pass slush fun, and so I am moving it to it's own thread.

Why are Athletic Booster groups able to sell admission to athletic events as part of their fee for joining the Booster group? Somebody pointed out that the entry fees are public funds and supposed to be run through the school activity funds. By running these through a non-profit, this seems to be conflicting with the school regulations regarding management of public funds. As in, no use of school activity funds to support or aid Booster clubs is allowed.

Why are Athletic Booster non-profits offering college scholarship money to children of members? Does this violate the IRS limits on personal benefit? How about if they are offered to any child?

If they are allowed to run these public funds through the Athletic Boosters, then are public funds being used to provide scholarships for these children?

Have fun with this.
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I have an idea. Let's totally eliminate any community or parental involvement in any school-related activities. Let's allow the government and their agencies to run and control everything because we all know they will do a much better job and we will all be the better for it in the long run.

^^Somebody else brought up this issue, not me. It was on the wrong thread.


Answer the questions.

Is the issuing of gate admission by Booster clubs a diversion of public funds to a private corporation or not? If they aren't paying for these, then they are selling admission. What right do they have to sell admission? Why are Booster funds being diverted away from the school programs and sent to colleges for specific students?

I would suppose there are other fundraisers in the Athletic Booster organizations. Are you saying these admission fees are your only source of revenue?

I can't wait for the football parents to let loose.............

Yawn. Go back to your other thread Barb (aka The Facts).

Barb,
You are so totally delusional. You've proven to be anti-teacher and anti-administration, but are you anti-student now, too? Arguing about a scholarship opportunity for a young athlete? Hop off it, would you?

What are..."sports"?

We are about to spend $4,000,000 so that high school kids can sleep 30 minutes later.

Do you really believe your petty concerns are of any importance?

I wasn't the one who brought it up. It looks like it might be somebody from Westfield. They were the one who brought up the issue of using what are public funds (admission to student athletic events) to help finance student college scholarships. The Athletic Boosters sell family and individual memberships. The family memberships can be $200++, with unlimited admission to athletic events, which are student events, with admission falling under school activity/public funds. Do they purchase these from the school system? X. Westfield said they kept all the money.

How come Music Boosters are no longer allowed to include admission to curricular concerts (which were supposed be free, anyway, BTW) in their Booster dues (which now have to be optional), and also charge admission to other concerts and keep the money in THEIR non-profit bank account, when Athletic Boosters can still do this?

Why would people want money in a Booster club to go to a college instead of the program at the high school?

I think X. Westfield brought up some valid points.

This actually sounds like preferential treatment for Athletics. Of course, nobody has ever heard that before......

Booster clubs sell Yearlong passes to a schools athletic events for X dollars. Those people are still counted in the head count at the event and the Booster club accounts for those admission dollars (since, at least in football, the schools split the gate).

Does the Booster club make money off the deal? Perhaps. If most families have an athlete that only plays 1 sport, they very likely DO make money off that. I had two athletes that played 2 and 3 sports last season. They very likely lost money on my season pass.

What the Booster club does with its dollars is up to that Booster club. Don't like it, get involved or STFU.

There's a whole lot of crap out there to get outraged about, Clueless. This ain't one of 'em, though.

Seriously - now to further his/her sick obsession "the facts" is trying to yet again stir the pot and get music and athletics to fight.

The facts - you are smart, read a lot, and in many cases are correct, but you are nothing other than a well educated cyber-bully, troll. If you really just cared about the issues you'd handle it with Gatehouse and your school board member, instead you have multiple threads going on this website to feed your sick obsession. Write a letter to the editor of a newspaper, publish a blog....

I WASN'T THE ONE WHO BROUGHT THIS UP. I just moved it over here to get it out of the parking pass thread.

Really? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Booster clubs sell Yearlong passes to a schools
> athletic events for X dollars. Those people are
> still counted in the head count at the event and
> the Booster club accounts for those admission
> dollars (since, at least in football, the schools
> split the gate).
>
> Does the Booster club make money off the deal?
> Perhaps. If most families have an athlete that
> only plays 1 sport, they very likely DO make money
> off that. I had two athletes that played 2 and 3
> sports last season. They very likely lost money on
> my season pass.
>
> What the Booster club does with its dollars is up
> to that Booster club. Don't like it, get involved
> or STFU.
>
> There's a whole lot of crap out there to get
> outraged about, Clueless. This ain't one of 'em,
> though.




So, do they keep track of who enters the gates using a Booster pass, and bill the Boosters for those people? Or, do you just show your pass and walk in? If they don't keep track, then they aren't included in the gate receipts. Either way you look at it you are indeed funneling public funds through a parent group, and the non-profit can make money off of a public transaction.

Why?

Since the person who brought this up mentioned Westfield, their tax return shows $12,000 of "scholarships" on page 16.

Have a nice week.
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I think something's going down the drain...

this whole event pass thing sounds illegal to me.people should pay at the gate.why should boosters make money on a school sponsored thing. or if the school system wants to sell discounted passes, then they can sell discounted passes.if somebody wants to support boosters, then they can join or make a donation.

Really? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Booster clubs sell Yearlong passes to a schools
> athletic events for X dollars. Those people are
> still counted in the head count at the event and
> the Booster club accounts for those admission
> dollars (since, at least in football, the schools
> split the gate).
>
> Does the Booster club make money off the deal?
> Perhaps. If most families have an athlete that
> only plays 1 sport, they very likely DO make money
> off that. I had two athletes that played 2 and 3
> sports last season. They very likely lost money on
> my season pass.
>
> What the Booster club does with its dollars is up
> to that Booster club. Don't like it, get involved
> or STFU.
>
> There's a whole lot of crap out there to get
> outraged about, Clueless. This ain't one of 'em,
> though.


This is obviously somebody whose kid got a scholarship paid for with school money.

Once again selective outrage. Why focus on FCPS schools with this issue... If you check athletic booster organizations across the state and country - they are all doing the same thing.

I think this is focusing on Fairfax county because this is Fairfax County.

brainexploded Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once again selective outrage. Why focus on FCPS
> schools with this issue... If you check athletic
> booster organizations across the state and country
> - they are all doing the same thing.


......and this is probably somebody from westfield.......

brainexploded Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Once again selective outrage. Why focus on FCPS
> schools with this issue... If you check athletic
> booster organizations across the state and country
> - they are all doing the same thing.


...what everyone else around the state is doing. My tax dollars and real estate assessments are going to support FCPS. It's not selective outrage. It's trying to take care of things in your own back yard. You have to start somewhere. Thanks for posting this info. It's a ponzi scheme for boosters money and needs to be changed.

Numero UNO.....boosters are granted tax exempt status. That status is subject to review for violations of tax codes. Providing scholarships for members is self dealing which means they are now subject to income tax. Could get expensive. I would not want to be the guy signing off on their tax return.

Número dos.....if non profits provide a gift or services of value in exchange for "donations" they are both required to report it on their tax return which they don't and provide a receipt to donor subtracting the value of the "donation".

Example: the smiths buy a super duper gold membership from Langley hs sports boosters for $500 smackers which entitles them to unlimited admission for 4 to all games and "Saxon bucks" which is money to spend at the snack bar. The smiths foolishly write off the entire 500 on taxes as a charitable donation instead of subtracting the value of the pass.

Langley sports boosters do no provide statement to donor, possibly committing tax fraud by promoting the tax deductibility of the donation.

Big problems for boosters. Time to call in real CPA to clean up prior tax returns.

^^Oh this is going to be fun. I am going to try to stay on the sidelines with this. However, I cruised through Athletic Booster tax returns and websites while I was packing my suitcase for the beach. Annandale, Lee, and Centerville all offer scholarships. Some are marked specifically as college scholarships. Lee offers 4 $1000 scholarships. C-ville had $2000 in scholarships. There might be others. I was moving fast. I know they mean well, but Two grande has a different opinion.

Numerous schools are offering these admission pass packages. Different terms with each. I still can't figure out how this works with the school activity/public funds. It seems to be obfuscating things to combine a membership/donation with purchase of admission. Different tax implications with each, as Two Grande pointed out.

We went through a lot with the Music Boosters. One Booster group was collecting "donations" for school trips. Of course this isn't a donation! This is a payment for services. 100%. Another group was collecting money for school-sponsored trips and telling people they could write it off on their income taxes because they were paying a 501c3. They had to fix both of these. It took months of being nasty. We also had to sort out what was school-sponsored and what was Booster-sponsored. Turned out there wasn't that much Booster-sponsored stuff, but everybody thought differently at the beginning. You sign a school form, the whole kit and caboodle is school-sponsored. Some groups thought they had to insure things that were actually owned by the School Board, like uniforms. One thought they owned the instruments and were labeling them. One acted like they held the insurance on a school trip.

I found the CPA's and attorneys these groups were using were not necessarily doing much to clean things up. People want to do things the way they want to do them. Things I found-

Insurance issues-Numerous Booster groups were running money for school trips and rental of school uniforms through their accounts instead of school accounts. This was the principal's idea to delegate all this. I did some basic checking on insurance. The two major carriers for Booster insurance have exclusions in their officer liability policy for handling government funds and/or anything resulting from an agreement with a school system/Super/principal. So, no officer liability coverage on these funds. The insurance on the money was either non-existent, insufficient, or people thought they were insured but they really weren't because they weren't doing things like reviewing bank statements properly and doing audits or reviews. Without these, no dishonesty coverage. It makes the policy worthless. So, the hundreds of thousands of dollars (maybe millions) some of these parents were turning in to Booster clubs because their principal was allowing them to process money for trips and things was uninsured. Some of this could apply to athletic Boosters.

This also messed up the FOIA situation, as these groups don't consistently meet the 2/3 public funding rule for FOIA eligibility. One group created quite a problem when then refused to release records to a member. They also refused to release records to their PRESIDENT. They actually intentionally took the transparency clause out of the Bylaws. These people had CPA's and attorneys helping them. I think the school system was also having trouble getting THEIR records out of them. This was on hundreds of thousands of dollars. Per year.

So, people are purchasing admission through Boosters. I still haven't figured out if they buy these from the school system and resell them to Boosters. Any way you look at it, this looks like Boosters are using public funds to enlarge their bank account. Even if they give all the money to the school, it creates a mess. Some groups are just turning all the money in to the school, others are taking a more active management role.

Have fun with this.

I did regain the FOIA when we agreed that all these records were public records that were supposed to be in school records, thus they were subject to FOIA (custodianship), even without the 2/3 rule. But, you will have a hard time ascertaining what is public and what is Booster if everything is all lumped together in these passes and maybe other stuff.

It is very hard for big ships to change directions when they are underway full speed ahead. Good luck.

At our high school, I think, the scholarship amounts were pretty dismal. I thought inconsequential. It was pretty sad that there was so many boosters jockeying for their kid to receive a "scholarship". Seemed like a parent ego thing based on very little actual scholarship money.

Why don't they just sell used cheerleader and volleyball team panties to raise funds?

eliminate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have an idea. Let's totally eliminate any
> community or parental involvement in any
> school-related activities. Let's allow the
> government and their agencies to run and control
> everything because we all know they will do a much
> better job and we will all be the better for it in
> the long run.


Good idea. After all it was MSDNC's Melissa Harris-Perry who said our kids don't belong to us.

The answer is to just follow the same IRS rules that every other non-profit has to follow. Once they do that, they'll be fine.

If they want to have a scholarship fund, they can set one up. It's not a big deal. Donations can be accepted to that separately so that the entire amount of those donations is tax deductible.

Gee I wonder what happens when they lose their tax exempt status due to these violations and they have to pay back taxes on aa that income.

This could be a real shit show.

Who gets the scholarships? Are they really screened or do they go to the offspring of major parent or student players? We did college scholarships in our band group. if it is something the group likes to do, why is it a problem?

The fee issue sounds like a can of worms.

The problem with the scholarships is that the boosters are taking all the funds from the season passes..which should funnel thru the school account, and carving out scholarships where eligibility is just booster offspring.

How can fcps permit private scholarships with public money?

I think 501c status is for public charities.

Public chairities can't enrich their own members. That's a nono.

Can somebody fill us in on whether booster clubs buy these passes from the school? It doesn't matter that they do good things with the money. It does sound as if there is a possibility that the scholarships are purchased with what are school funds. Even if they have other sources of income, it gets all mixed up.

I thought non-profits offered scholarships all the time. Is the problem because they only offer them to the members of the club? If they opened it up to all athletes, then would that be okay?

This still would take money that could have been spent on the high school and gives it to another educational institution. I think their hearts meant well but maybe somebody didn't think this out.

This is why I don't donate to very many charities.

Maybe the sports parents need to have a private fund that is separate from the school funds and is not tax deductible? Especially if they want to give scholarships to their own kids?

Also, they should not get a total tax deduction for "donations" that "pay for" entry fees to games. That is not a donation! Even my church back in bumpkinville USA understands that. You do start to wonder who runs these things---maybe they got hit in the head too many times when they were on the team?

Could be too many head hits, combined with the Parent syndrome, pure greed, conniving, etc. Or just plain stupidity. They need to get it straight. It does seem that it could be construed that school funds are being used for college money if they let these groups sell ticket packages. Even if they buy them, the big family package could net a profit if people don't use many admissions, but how do they even keep track? Could somebody please explain how this works?

I think Fcps has gotten too tight with boosters and lost their objectivity.....

Clueless, wow don't we have a whole mess of hate for athletics. Our booster club just help pay for a new gym floor, maintains gold carts, new bleachers as well as turf fields. Our funds also maintain all fields at the school. These improvements benefit all students, civic groups who use the facilities and just helps out.

I don't give a rat's ass about admission to events as long as it helps our booster club contribute to improvements to the school.

Get a life you sore loser.

"I don't give a rat's ass about admission to events as long as it helps our booster club contribute to improvements to the school."


Not giving a rat's ass about complying with IRS rules is probably not a good idea. Just saying. This is not about love or hate of booster clubs. Booster clubs are good overall, but should be careful to follow IRS rules because they could be audited (and so could the people donating). If you follow the rules, it will all be fine.

^^^ "Clueless, The Facts, Music Lover" likely the same cyber-bully troll who has a crazy vendetta against all of FCPS and a lot of time on his/her hands.

^^^In case the athletics folks don't know who this is yet, her name is Barbara Brown and she's a former Oakton HS parent.

this isn't hate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I don't give a rat's ass about admission to
> events as long as it helps our booster club
> contribute to improvements to the school."
>
>
> Not giving a rat's ass about complying with IRS
> rules is probably not a good idea. Just saying.
> This is not about love or hate of booster clubs.
> Booster clubs are good overall, but should be
> careful to follow IRS rules because they could be
> audited (and so could the people donating). If
> you follow the rules, it will all be fine.


Don't give a rat's ass....? Their kid must have gotten a scholarship..... Maybe they took the full write off for their admission, too.

Why is Barb getting her panties in a bunch over FCPS spending practices? She clearly doesn't pay taxes, because there is no way she has time for a job with her war against the schools.

Somebody brought this up on the parking pass thread. I think it might have been somebody from Westfield. I just moved it over here so you all could complain in your own thread. Figure out who knew about the passes and scholarships and take it out on them. I am staying out of it. Don't know anything.This is between you all. It is not consistent to tell music boosters they can't collect on admissions for extracurricular or curricular performances if athletics is, though.

Athletics may be different from music (on the admissions fee) because it's not connected to a school class.

Way back when people just paid to get into games at the gate and the school kept the funds. Football gate receipts are split 50/50 with home away schools.

Maybe eight years ago, fcps allowed boosters to sell these passes good for all home games. You pay the boosters for the pass...not the school, so the money is under their control and who knows what the disclosure rules are on ow it is spent.

To the booster guy bragging about how he is Christ reincarnated for paying for the gym floor, give me a fucking break.

It's not your goddamn money from your personal bank account so don't expect a fucking citizenship award.

The money you collect, got it? Collect, comes from the public, many of whom are not boosters.

Corporate sponsors, people who spend Monet at the snack bar, everyday families ho pay to go to games. Just because you put it all the money in one bank account, it doesn't mean you get to give kickbacks to your booster buddies by giving their kis a few thousand bucks to pay for college.

maybe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Athletics may be different from music (on the
> admissions fee) because it's not connected to a
> school class.

It isn't.

Not that complicated Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Way back when people just paid to get into games
> at the gate and the school kept the funds.
> Football gate receipts are split 50/50 with home
> away schools.
>
> Maybe eight years ago, fcps allowed boosters to
> sell these passes good for all home games. You pay
> the boosters for the pass...not the school, so the
> money is under their control and who knows what
> the disclosure rules are on ow it is spent.
>
> To the booster guy bragging about how he is Christ
> reincarnated for paying for the gym floor, give me
> a fucking break.
>
> It's not your goddamn money from your personal
> bank account so don't expect a fucking citizenship
> award.
>
> The money you collect, got it? Collect, comes from
> the public, many of whom are not boosters.
>
> Corporate sponsors, people who spend Monet at the
> snack bar, everyday families ho pay to go to
> games. Just because you put it all the money in
> one bank account, it doesn't mean you get to give
> kickbacks to your booster buddies by giving their
> kis a few thousand bucks to pay for college.



Somebody has some balls!

How do you split the gate receipts fifty fifty if some of them are in booster bank accounts? This is so effed up.

Ok, Herndon plays Westfield at Westfield. 1500 people attend game. 300 of them hold Westfield sports booster pass, so they don't pay.

1200 paying customers times 5 bucks, is 6000 smackers.

Westfield keeps 3000 and sends 3000 to Herndon thru their school activity account.

Boosters do not get gate receipts. But in this example, 300 people didn't pay, times $5....so 1500 was not shared by schools.

Here is where inequity surfaces.

Let's say falls church pays Westfield. FCC has fewer boosters than a Westfield, so when they play away, hey are cheated out of their half of gate receipts because more people aren't paying at the larger schools.

It's messed up.

That is what I thought. So you are confirming that boosters who do this are allowed to process gate receipts through their bank accounts, probably no record is kept at the gate. Are any of the clubs buying the passes from the school system? From the level of anxiety on this site it seems probably not. So this mystery athletic booster is right. Boosters are being allowed to score off of public money. So, public funds could technically be being used to fund college scholarships. Is there an acceptable way to offer college scholarships in a group like this?

The boosters are getting POTENTIAL gate receipts, which ARE public money.

The college scholarship thing is confusing to me. Do all athletic booster groups offer scholarships? I thought the boosters were there to help out with the actual school sports at the school???

^^^^^^i think that is the way it is supposed to be. They somehow think that by giving away money for college that helps the local schools? Their intentions were good but I think they got off-target. The public funds issue is ugly. I think the party's over????

Lost Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The boosters are getting POTENTIAL gate receipts,
> which ARE public money.

They are getting what would be gate receipts indirectly/obscurely since people are paying them instead of the school to see the game. They are collecting money from people to see games.

Basically they are taking gate receipts and redirecting them to their kids in the form of "scholarships". Ingenious. Maybe they didn't get so many hits to the head.

Not sure about other schools, but South County gives scholarships at a booster night thing at the end of the school year. After reading all of this, I also wonder if the band receives a cut of the money from the gate? South County also has a band booster club. Very interesting how this money trail goes through these schools and why no one ever questions these things.

WSHS here. The band boosters at WSHS have not gotten a cut of the gate receipts. They also do not have college scholarships for students. The band booster money paid for equipment, instruments, music, sectional instruction, etc. There are no charges to attend a concert---all are free.

More good info from WSHS. Thanks. I was thinking of the gate money specifically for football games where the band performs at halftime. Since the band supports the athletic dept with performances, it would seem they would get at least a cut of the gate. Which leads to another question….are the scholarships that are being awarded based on sports and grades or just grades? Or is it completely arbitrary based on the booster parents sitting on the scholarship committee? Does the kid being awarded the scholarship even have to play a sport or is it only based on the parents being a booster member? The slippery slope just got even more slippery.

" Since the band supports the athletic dept with performances, it would seem they would get at least a cut of the gate."


The band does not support the athletic dept. with performances. The band performs because it is an activity that supports the students who play in the band. The boosters support the band because it provides an activity for their children (that their children are interested in). The goal is not to support the athletic dept.

I do understand that some people might show up for the games just to see/hear the band play (so I guess that might be a reason to give the band a "cut" of the gate receipts), but I'm not sure that many people do that. This is one of the issues that makes the gate receipts issue a bit tricky.

If the band plays at halftime of a football game, it would seem to me the band was supporting the football game and their school. Band parents might be attending because their band kid is playing in the pep squad and at halftime. Again, supporting the overall sports environment and spirit of the school. And those band parents probably join the athletic booster club so they can attend all the sporting events, even if the kids don't play and even if the band isn't performing. Cheerleaders get some of the money - why not the band? Both groups are performing at the games.

"And those band parents probably join the athletic booster club so they can attend all the sporting events, even if the kids don't play and even if the band isn't performing. Cheerleaders get some of the money - why not the band?"


I didn't know that cheerleaders got some of the money. But maybe they are considered "athletes"?

I have never heard of a band parent joining the athletic booster club. They have their own band booster club. I was one of the band parents. I did not attend very many athletic events just to hear my child play in the band. Maybe a couple of football games to watch the marching band ($30 max on that and I showed up just for half time and then left). I attended his free concerts. There is no reason why I would pay $250 to support the athletes. Would the athlete parents join the band booster club?

Band parent here. I've had a least one kid in marching band for 5 years. My family has attended every game...the entire game. I do know band parents who joined the athletic boosters. Band boosters still pay admission to all athletic events, even when the band plays.

The band performs at halftime because it is part of their class requirement. Band is a class, NOT an activity. They go to pep band optionally. And I might add they are treated pretty darn bad by the audience and some of the football parents considering this is a class performance. No manners.
The band is not there to support football. It is a mandatory performance.
Band parents do not typically support athletic boosters unless they have a child doing a sport. Band parents pay large school fees to cover expenses and also donate for extra things.
Cheerleading is a sport. The Virginia High School League also covers yearbook, drama, debate, forensics.

I think band parents should get into football games for free because this is a mandatory performance. They just get in for free now if they are volunteering.

1. I think gate receipts/admission needs to be taken away from boosters and put back with the school system where it belongs. Immediately. These are public funds.

2. Somebody needs to research the scholarship issue. It might be okay to do these with booster money if a special fund was set up and people made voluntary donations. It still gets swampy when you start looking at what criteria you use, the possibility of favoritism, etc. as in I was a major volunteer for years and my kid deserves it, etc. This can be very arbitrary. I think it might be better to just stop this and let the outside market handle it. Less infighting. Leave the money for the school. That is the primary purpose of the booster group, anyway.

3. Athletic boosters could still solicit for memberships, donations which unlike memberships are most probably deductible, do concessions and merchandise.

I also think marching band parents should get in to games for free. They aren't allowed to charge at class performances.

"I think band parents should get into football games for free because this is a mandatory performance. They just get in for free now if they are volunteering."


+1 Thank you for saying this. This would go a long way toward goodwill toward the band students and their families. It costs a lot to be in band.

Do FARM students get into the games for free?

They cannot charge for curricular concerts. Halftime is a mandatory performance. But, what about band competitions? They are also mandatory. We pay to see those.

But, the focus is on athletics with this.

Anybody got scores for tonight's games?

First off, how is band a "class" if there is so much time put in outside the classroom? Give the band some money from the gate…they deserve it. And to erftyuh, I agree with you. You attend the event and also pay for the band boosters. Money should be split up somehow.

Its like being half pregnant, the sports boosters can't claim to be a pulic charity and give away scholarships to just members kids.

There is no way around this issue regardless of where the funds come from.

The fact that boosters control the sports pass money is wrong.

I believe in loudoun county they sell sports passes but you buy them thru the school not the boosters.

parents pay to watch their kids play sports so why shouldn't band parents pay too?

I just found an old flyer from Woodson boosters from last year.

$200 for a Cavalier Family Patron...4 passes.

It says, "your contribution is tax deductible"

That's a big problem, call it tax fraud.

They must count the booster passes as a paid admission and it counts against the home schools part of the gate. The visiting team should there fair share

Thanks for the offer of gate receipts for band. However, band is not part of football or activities. Band is a class. Marching band is part of the course. It involves a lot of time outside of a classroom due to the nature of the material, but it is firmly curricular. That is why it receives appropriated funds. Football and other sports receive appropriated funds for coaches, etc., but they are approved activities. There is a huge difference.

Woodson hs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just found an old flyer from Woodson boosters
> from last year.
>
> $200 for a Cavalier Family Patron...4 passes.
>
> It says, "your contribution is tax deductible"
>
> That's a big problem, call it tax fraud.



Is that unlimited passes for up to four people?
Who advises these people on taxes and business decisions?
Sometimes I think if it involves kids people think they can do anything. Too bad the IRS doesn't look at it that way........

They are offering four figure lifetime passes this year. New!!! Somebody needs to stop this nonsense.

Respect for band Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the offer of gate receipts for band.
> However, band is not part of football or
> activities. Band is a class. Marching band is part
> of the course. It involves a lot of time outside
> of a classroom due to the nature of the material,
> but it is firmly curricular. That is why it
> receives appropriated funds. Football and other
> sports receive appropriated funds for coaches,
> etc., but they are approved activities. There is a
> huge difference.

There is a difference only because band directors and marching band enthusiasts lobbied for it. Years ago the band program and marching band were two separate programs. You could participate in band at any level without having to participate in the marching band. IMO it was better that way.

Also don't band boosters run the concessions at some high school football games?

Woodson $1,400 lifetime family membership.
How do you fix this?

$1000 at Langley buys you passes, booster bucks, two stadium seats, a parking pass, your name on the scoreboard and in the program. Nothing like a little subtle support.....

$1000 gets you passes, a brick, and backpacks.

Being involved in boosters for the past four years in various positions on the board, the membership money goes directly back to Student Activities for assistance to ALL athletic programs. Scholarship money is made up of funds raised through concessions, spiritwear, etc. The school I was involved in does not require the applicant's parents to be members.

Has anybody figured out what giving money away does for the school?

$&!? Woodson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Woodson $1,400 lifetime family membership.
> How do you fix this?

Holy crap.
$1400?????????????

Could somebody please explain how to set up the scholarships so as to be in compliance with the irs? I think the whole idea of them is unpleasant. Parading everybody who for some reason qualifies in front of the losers is a horrible way to finish high school.

"Has anybody figured out what giving money away does for the school?"

+1

To the booster who says the scholarships are funded by the snack bar sales. Who buys at the snack bar?

The general public. I isn't a private piggy bank. You are operating on school property after all.

I would like to see a sign posted at these snacbars that says:

Profits from sales here go to scholarships for our members children. Have a nice day, suckers"

That should get them thinking about this inside scheme.

Somebody contact bill curran at fcps.

good question Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Has anybody figured out what giving money away
> does for the school?"
>
> +1

+100000000000000000000000000. What helps the school more. Giving money away or applying it to things for the school.

Still in violation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To the booster who says the scholarships are
> funded by the snack bar sales. Who buys at the
> snack bar?
>
> The general public. I isn't a private piggy bank.
> You are operating on school property after all.
>
> I would like to see a sign posted at these
> snacbars that says:
>
> Profits from sales here go to scholarships for our
> members children. Have a nice day, suckers"
>
> That should get them thinking about this inside
> scheme.
>
> Somebody contact bill curran at fcps.


Try irs form 13909 instead.

Why contact Bill Curran? Unless it's to tell him when the scholarship application is due at Annandale High. I'm sure he's a member of the booster club - and he knows what goes on. He's as complicit as everyone else at Gatehouse. No integrity is a common them in the leadership for FCPS. They protect their own and cover things up.

Like I said.....13909. If they have it together, no problem.

This thread makes me sick. First, everyone is eligible for booster scholarships, not just members. SEcond, most of the complainers here have likely NEVER VOLUNTEERED at their school. What goes unnoticed is the countless number of VOLUNTEER HOURS that a relatively small number of people put in to raise funds to support various programs at FCPS schools. Find something more meaningful to complain about please.

Still in violation Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To the booster who says the scholarships are
> funded by the snack bar sales. Who buys at the
> snack bar?
>
> The general public. I isn't a private piggy bank.
> You are operating on school property after all.
>
> I would like to see a sign posted at these
> snacbars that says:
>
> Profits from sales here go to scholarships for our
> members children. Have a nice day, suckers"
>
> That should get them thinking about this inside
> scheme.
>
> Somebody contact bill curran at fcps.


If you have a problem, don't go to the snack bar. Seriously. Would it really make you feel better when you are buying your M&M's if there was a sign that listed the hundreds of items, programs etc that the profits supported?

"This thread makes me sick. First, everyone is eligible for booster scholarships, not just members. SEcond, most of the complainers here have likely NEVER VOLUNTEERED at their school. What goes unnoticed is the countless number of VOLUNTEER HOURS that a relatively small number of people put in to raise funds to support various programs at FCPS schools. Find something more meaningful to complain about please."


People volunteer. That doesn't mean they expect to get some money in return. That's kind of the definition of "volunteer"----doing things for the common good without the expectation of personal gain. I agree that it's usually a small number of people who volunteer. But, to rationalize these scholarships by saying that "volunteers work hard for them" is not right.

I have no problem with scholarship funds, but they should be set up correctly. People should know they are contributing to a scholarship fund when they buy a football ticket. Personally, I think the scholarship fund should be separate from funds that are used for the common, public good (like maintaining fields and buying equipment that is used from year to year, etc.). The SB needs to get a handle on this. They should make it clear what public funds can be used for and they should provide a certain baseline to all schools for those uses. After that, if parents want to generate funds, fine. But parents should not be using gate receipts or snack bar profits for items of a personal nature that do not benefit the public school. Somehow this got out of control.

yes, it would Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "This thread makes me sick. First, everyone is
> eligible for booster scholarships, not just
> members. SEcond, most of the complainers here have
> likely NEVER VOLUNTEERED at their school. What
> goes unnoticed is the countless number of
> VOLUNTEER HOURS that a relatively small number of
> people put in to raise funds to support various
> programs at FCPS schools. Find something more
> meaningful to complain about please."
>
>
> People volunteer. That doesn't mean they expect
> to get some money in return. That's kind of the
> definition of "volunteer"----doing things for the
> common good without the expectation of personal
> gain. I agree that it's usually a small number of
> people who volunteer. But, to rationalize these
> scholarships by saying that "volunteers work hard
> for them" is not right.
>
> I have no problem with scholarship funds, but they
> should be set up correctly. People should know
> they are contributing to a scholarship fund when
> they buy a football ticket. Personally, I think
> the scholarship fund should be separate from funds
> that are used for the common, public good (like
> maintaining fields and buying equipment that is
> used from year to year, etc.). The SB needs to
> get a handle on this. They should make it clear
> what public funds can be used for and they should
> provide a certain baseline to all schools for
> those uses. After that, if parents want to
> generate funds, fine. But parents should not be
> using gate receipts or snack bar profits for items
> of a personal nature that do not benefit the
> public school. Somehow this got out of control.


Maybe it's different at your school, but volunteers at our school expect nothing in return. Nothing. And who is buying something of a personal nature?? Again booster scholarships are going to be available to ALL students. The next complaint will be when someone says that not enough non booster member kids get awarded. And by the way, gate receipts don't go to the booster club. And when people buy booster memberships it is perfectly clear what the funds are used for.....to support the kids and programs. My advise would don't go to high school athletic events if this is all so troubling to you.

"Again booster scholarships are going to be available to ALL students."


Even non athletes? Your use of the future tense makes it sounds like this has not been true in the past (?).

I don't think that not going to athletic events is the answer. You are saying that people should not be involved in their own public school because of their views. That sounds very democratic. So I won't participate in my school activities because I expect the money I give to be used at the school? I should not voice my opinion because in your opinion I am wrong? I don't think Thomas Jefferson would approve.

"And when people buy booster memberships it is perfectly clear what the funds are used for.....to support the kids and programs."


Are they clear on how much they can deduct as a charitable donation for IRS purposes? Is that perfectly clear to them?

>>> My advise would don't go to high school athletic events if this is all so troubling to you.

This. My advise is to completely ignore the whiners who have been targeting to destroy volunteer organizations of all types in the FCPS school system. They have been colluding with Gatehouse admin to eliminate outside (read: parents) influence over anything related to school. It's all part of the plan.

In the next year or two you will see proposals about how FCPS needs to fill numerous new positions related to managing the tasks formerly handled by booster organizations. Jobs security and more employees is the end game.

First band and music, then athletics. The toughest nut to crack will be the PTSA's - but count on it - they are coming for you too.

The first thing to do is get the public money where it belongs. OUT of booster bank accounts. They are using a public transaction as a marketing tool. Why else would anybody buy a $1400 booster membership? Outrageous. Are they telling them how much is deductible? They should. That is their responsibility.
Second, the school system does not have any control over the scholarships. The groups need to check with an informed, IMPARTIAL adviser about this. Too many of the people telling these people what to do are overly emotionally involved and are not focused on what is legitimate. The IRS has gone after more than one athletic booster organization. You owe it to your members and your children to walk the line. Yes you are volunteers but that is no excuse for not following non-profit laws. It just isn't worth it. They don't care if you are volunteers trying to help children. They will fine you and so much for your good intentions.
Whoever brought this up has some valid concerns. It is the people who are avoiding the laws who are the true enemies of booster groups. Because of them, some groups could be shut down if caught.

"This. My advise is to completely ignore the whiners who have been targeting to destroy volunteer organizations of all types in the FCPS school system."

Not this. You put on blinders at your own peril. If you clean up the organizations, they won't self destruct.

"In the next year or two you will see proposals about how FCPS needs to fill numerous new positions related to managing the tasks formerly handled by booster organizations. Jobs security and more employees is the end game."

You have got to be kidding. The last job anyone wants is the one dealing with "booster parents" or any other special interest group parents. They are certainly not going to hire someone to sell "spirit wear" or tickets at games or snack bar sellers or donation collectors. What they really want is for these groups to just follow some simple guidelines that don't violate IRS rules.

Many fcps schools require that kids be booster members to apply for scholarships, so whoever said otherwise is wrong.

There is case law on this issue. Capital gymnastics booster club vs IRS. They lost. You can't enrich your members and claim 501c status. Boosters are morons if they continus these private scholarships.

In addition, look at IRS form 990 question 7a.

"did the organization receive a payment in excess of $75 made party as a contribution and partly for goods and services to the payor"

Line 7b.

"if so, did the organization notify the donor of the value of the goods or services provided"

Bet no booster group answered those questions yes which means they filed a fraudulent tax return.