anyone else see this? at this point its witness stories against the police version, but they should eventually release a report like they did with that gambler.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/24/AR2007052402296.html?nav=hcmodule

what doesnt make sense is why all of them have to open fire just because their buddy did. what happened to shooting to disarm? and how the fuck are you going to shoot a man in the FACE, then drag him out of the car and perform CPR? this is an outrage.

you're an idiot.. It clearly states that only one cop shot the subject. You're relying on dumbass witnesses who are the type of people who stay at hotels on Rt 1, carry loaded weapons and are constantly involved in drug activity. Have you ever heard of physical evidence?? At a shooting, there will be plenty of that and investigators can usually tell the story pretty well without even hearing either side of the story.

apologize...

i seriously think the fcpd should have their ammo replaced with "less lethal" ammunition, aka rubber balls that they use on crowds. i cant say for sure how this situation compared to the others but it's suspicious if nothing else. the fcpd cops do seem to have itchy trigger fingers, though.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

It is realistically pointless to question the FCPD. The entire Fairfax County law enforcement machine, from the lowest-ranked clerk in the station to the county district attorneys, will do whatever it takes to keep investigations of police on unarmed civilian shootings out of public courtrooms (RIP Salvatore Culosi, RIP Aaron Brown in the adjoining city). At least in this case they shot a bad guy and given 1) the record of the guy shot and 2) where he was heading, I'm willing to believe the police side of the story.

What I found amusing was this quote:

"The manager of the motel said she saw the shooting from the motel office, where police told her to stay after they arrived in two vans. "They didn't need to kill that boy," said the woman, who spoke on condition of anonymity because she said she feared police harassment."

I guess they can't harass her in the motel office, where she works.

pyramids17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
what happened to shooting to disarm?



They disarmed him.

You guys are all nuts. The job of the cops is to "Protect and Serve." They are trained to "Protect and Serve" the law-abiding public. There is no "shoot to disarm." Some asshole points a gun at a cop - any cop in any part of the country - the cop has been trained to kill the fucker. End of story.

No dispute there, as long as the witness' account was indeed incorrect.

You have got to be kidding me on two points. First, shoot to disarm? There is no such policy on any police force in the United States. Shoot to kill, usually center mass (chest area) are where they are trained to shoot.

Secondly, you have an issue with them performing CPR on the victim? Yes, they shot him, but once the threat has been removed (the gun, and his capacity to use it) they provide first responder first-aid until EMT's arrive. Most SWAT teams (even though not used here, for once) carry SWAT Medics with them for this reason. They are not medical professionals so they cannot pronounce death. So what are they expected to do, stand there and "assume" he is dead? What if he wasn't? The uproar surrounding that would be emense. So do not blame them for attempting to render first-aid (although feeble) to the shooting suspect.

you guys seem to know exactly what happened. i wasn't there so i don't have as much knowledge as you. but they should at least make a statement about it, so we can find out.

it never says he pointed anything at them.

pyramids17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you guys seem to know exactly what happened. i
> wasn't there so i don't have as much knowledge as
> you. but they should at least make a statement
> about it, so we can find out.
>
> it never says he pointed anything at them.


No. He simply failed to follow orders and "produced a gun."

A cop will shoot you in the fucking head for sticking your hand in your coat pocket if he didn't ask you to. Do you think all cops are friggin' Mannix or something? This is the real world where people get shot to death for being stupid.

Nice shooting Tex.

pyramids17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what doesnt make sense is why all of them have to
> open fire just because their buddy did. what
> happened to shooting to disarm? and how the fuck
> are you going to shoot a man in the FACE, then
> drag him out of the car and perform CPR? this is
> an outrage.

I don't know how many opened fire, but maybe they all saw that a gun was being pointed at an officer...

Shooting to disarm is a tactic that has been very popular in fictional media for years, and it remains alive and well in that aspect...

Most cops have enough common sense to know that if somebody is pulseless and shot in the head, all the CPR in the world ain't gonna save him. However, they probably wanted to err on the side of caution, knowing that the dead guy will suddenly have family coming out of the woodwork looking for a reason to sue.

"shoot to disarm" is a logical fallacy. Any part of the body contains arteries that could bleed out if shot, so there really is no part of the body one could shoot reliably for this purpose.

You can shoot to disarm... proof - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QCiGQjtqxc

I stand corrected!

A sniper with a RIFLE and time to think/focus is 1000 times more accurate than a cop on the street shooting from the hip with less than 2 seconds to make a choice...


No such thing as shoot to disarm... FBI studies have shown that even the most trained police officers/militarty personel only hit their target around 17% of the time when shooting at CENTER MASS(chest) in a gun fight. Now imagine if they were only trying to "shoot to disarm"...this isn't "24" and no one is Jack Baur.

The guy in the video is sitting down and hardly moving at all. Not the easist shot in the world but certainly not a moving target at night.
If the incident happened like anything close to what was reported the dead guy was stupid to ignore the cops with a gun in his hand. This isn't dodge city where the marshall gives you a chance to walk outside for a quick draw.

You may want to ask yourself why drug dealing is so profitable. It is because of the risks of going to jail or being killed are so great. If you want to run around with guns and dealing drugs expect the odds to catch up with you.
I wont lose any sleep over it.

Actually, drug dealing is not profitable at all. When you factor in jail time, instances when people are killed, medical expenses, etc., drug dealing actually pays around minimum wage in the end. It is a really stupid thing to do. Of course, so is pulling out a gun after refusing to listen to a cop's orders.

I have to agree, most criminal don't realize that if they put the same type of effort towards a legal profession they would make MORE money at substantially lower risk.

The problem is that many drug dealers etc... have criminal records thus nobody will deal with them. Some are also on the run from another crimes so putting their name on a business license would mean a SWAT team or bounty hunter would be on them so quick and they'd be in jail.

You don't have to give a name, SS# to deal drugs and get money.

Does anyone know the officers names ? I would like to send them a thank you note and a $50.00 Best Buy gift card. They did their job !

Thank you Officers ! God bless you for such a great job.

Kind of reminds me of that maggott Alex. police blew away at I hop, he will not be stealing anymore ! LOL

Maybe I should send a I hop gift card to the Alex. officer ?

I'd actually find it kinda amusing if you did just that. Make it a gift card for some huge amount, so the newspapers carry the story. I think the cop was wrong, but he got away with it so I say let the past be the past. Nobody cares about the life of some pancake-stealing teenager, dirty harry has that part right.

Why not a Ihop gift card ! Cops love to pig out.

what's really unfortunate is that AFAIK they weren't even looking for this guy, they were looking for someone else. This is like the 5th police shooting recently, anyone remember the last one that happened in Falls Church?

It's getting out of hand..

I mean, maybe this one was warranted but look at the local police track record. SWAT team for a gambler, a rentacop shoots a pothead, the falls church incident (if I remember correctly the guy was unarmed), and now this.

Let's not forget what happened in Alexandria to the guy who had his kid 'hostage', they ended up killing the man.

Senseless death.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i seriously think the fcpd should have their ammo
> replaced with "less lethal" ammunition, aka rubber
> balls that they use on crowds. i cant say for
> sure how this situation compared to the others but
> it's suspicious if nothing else. the fcpd cops do
> seem to have itchy trigger fingers, though.

Lets see, I am a news paper editor and need to sell papers. I can run a story. Asshole drug dealer went for gun and was shot by police. On a scale of how many papers this will sell. Not to many to a few.

Option 2.
Police shoot man in hotel parking lot while minding his own buisness after site seeing with girlfriend. Papers sold, quite a few to a lot. Especially to the Fairfax Underground crowd.

Now I suppose that all the people in that hotel parking lot that the press interviewed were fine upstanding citizens. Just the kind of people you would find oh, say, on a part of Rt 1 that you wouldn't walk down at night.

The problem with this area today is that the news media doesn't have to report the truth. They can report what sell papers or draws listners. I would trust a used car salesman before I would trust a member of the press.

If you don't like the police department in Fairfax move to DC or PG county.

ECON202 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what's really unfortunate is that AFAIK they
> weren't even looking for this guy, they were
> looking for someone else. This is like the 5th
> police shooting recently, anyone remember the last
> one that happened in Falls Church?
>
> It's getting out of hand..
>
> I mean, maybe this one was warranted but look at
> the local police track record. SWAT team for a
> gambler, a rentacop shoots a pothead, the falls
> church incident (if I remember correctly the guy
> was unarmed), and now this.
>
> Let's not forget what happened in Alexandria to
> the guy who had his kid 'hostage', they ended up
> killing the man.
>
> Senseless death.

You know, if you were any more liberal you would have your head up Hillary Clintons ass. What the problem is that we have made excuses for these people so long that they can no longer do anything wrong. He sells drugs, he robs banks, he beats his wife, he steals. None of this is their fault. Someone else is to blame because they flunked out of school and have to live off of what they can steal.

A guy is selling drugs, gets stopped by the police, is ordered to show his hands and when he does he pulls a gun out. Who cares if he got as far as pointing it at the police. Who cares if it is the person they were looking for. He is a prime canidate for a Darwin Award. You say it is a senseless death when you know only what you have read in the paper, maybe, more likely only what you have read here on this board. The only senseless thing here would be if they had to shoot him more than once. One bullet, woth it, anything else would be a waist of good ammo.

Since these people are so mistreated by sociaty maybe you would like to open your home to them. Try to help them to lead better more productive lives. Let them teach you children all they need to know about drugs, guns, violence, lying, cheating and stealing. Yep, I think that is an execlent idea. Maybe the next time instead of shooting the "poor bastard" the police can bring him to your house and let you be responsible for him.

Richard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets see, I am a news paper editor and need to
> sell papers. I can run a story. Asshole drug
> dealer went for gun and was shot by police. On a
> scale of how many papers this will sell. Not to
> many to a few.

you are fucking idiot! do you seriously think the washington post is going to play up one small story to sell more papers at risk of alienating people? send your computer back to apple.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

ECON202 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what's really unfortunate is that AFAIK they
> weren't even looking for this guy, they were
> looking for someone else. This is like the 5th
> police shooting recently, anyone remember the last
> one that happened in Falls Church?
>
> It's getting out of hand..
>
> I mean, maybe this one was warranted but look at
> the local police track record. SWAT team for a
> gambler, a rentacop shoots a pothead, the falls
> church incident (if I remember correctly the guy
> was unarmed), and now this.
>
> Let's not forget what happened in Alexandria to
> the guy who had his kid 'hostage', they ended up
> killing the man.
>
> Senseless death.

You are one of the many that believes bad things don't happen in your world. You go to sleep at night thinking you are safe and believing police are just riding around writing tickets. You go to work every day and sit at your desk and pray you won't become a victim of carpel tunnel syndrome. Police officers have other risks. First they go to work and put on body armor so they don't get murdered like many law enforcement officers WILL every year. Then they put on their belts which consist of all the tools they will need to help them have the advantage when they WILL have to fight someone who doesn't want to go to jail. Then, they arm themselves with years of training and experience so that when the bad man decides to take their life, the officer's brain will react a hundredth of a second faster and hopefully they will survive.

See, policeman make mistakes. You will never forgive them for it, and the public will always exploit them. These mistakes are few and can't compare to the number of good things that police do - which you will never hear about. The fact is, if YOU put on the uniform you would probably either end up in prison, or get fired for being a coward. All of these "senseless deaths" you wrote about were justified shootings with the exception of the SWAT shooting in which there was no cover up, no smoke screens, nothing but the truth. Within hours of the shooting, the police department's Chief was on television explaining the accident.

You rest easy my friend, the Police Officer will always have your back when you need him, even if he knows you hate him.

Well, well, well....

Who did not see this one coming: "The Justice Department said yesterday [Friday] it will not file civil rights charges against the Fairfax County police office who shot and killed an unarmed man during an arrest last year."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/01/AR2007060102372.html

Protect and Serve..... Protect and Serve whom?

pyramids17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what happened to shooting to disarm?

All firearms training instructs the shooter to stop the threat, not to shoot to disarm.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2007 10:18AM by Rowsdower.

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lets see, I am a news paper editor and need to
> > sell papers. I can run a story. Asshole drug
> > dealer went for gun and was shot by police. On
> a
> > scale of how many papers this will sell. Not to
> > many to a few.
>
> you are fucking idiot! do you seriously think the
> washington post is going to play up one small
> story to sell more papers at risk of alienating
> people? send your computer back to apple.

You you are the fucking idiot, or should I be kinder and just say fucking clueless. Why don't you try climbing down out of your ivory tower and living a few weeks down in the real word. And if you don't think the press writes the stories to make them sound worse than they are to "make" headlines you are fucking stupid on top of it. I have seen things happen first hand, then read the report in the news and wondered if we are even talking about the same incident. There is no truth in reporting anymore when it comes to the press. They write to sell news. Big story, small story, it doesn't matter. If the twist isn't sick enough on it's own then they will do what they can to spice it up.

I have seen things happen first hand

LOL. You go girl.

owned

So many people on here talking shit like they know the entire story.

Wanted guy shows up and has a gun. Refuses to put his hands up so he can be arrested. He chose to go for his gun and gets shot!

What would you prefer happen? Bad guy goes for gun and officer takes a bullet for the team so the other officers can continue to beg the guy to surrender?

Maybe the police should just back away and let the guy go. He is wanted and is armed.... this can bad for the community but at least he will not be hurt. That is sooo important.

When the police tell you to put your fucking hands up... I suggest you do it and not go for your gun. What do you expect will happen!!!!

pyramids17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anyone else see this? at this point its witness
> stories against the police version, but they
> should eventually release a report like they did
> with that gambler.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2007/05/24/AR2007052402296.html?nav=hcmodule
>
> what doesnt make sense is why all of them have to
> open fire just because their buddy did. what
> happened to shooting to disarm? and how the fuck
> are you going to shoot a man in the FACE, then
> drag him out of the car and perform CPR? this is
> an outrage.

Its not an outrage, its good shooting and a well spent .29 cents for a hydrashock. The CPR was so pussies wouldn't say they didn't do anything for him.

Kudos FCPD. Keep that practice up.

Why does anyone care that the police shot a crack-head criminal?
One less trouble maker...

Schrute Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ECON202 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > what's really unfortunate is that AFAIK they
> > weren't even looking for this guy, they were
> > looking for someone else. This is like the 5th
> > police shooting recently, anyone remember the
> last
> > one that happened in Falls Church?
> >
> > It's getting out of hand..
> >
> > I mean, maybe this one was warranted but look
> at
> > the local police track record. SWAT team for a
> > gambler, a rentacop shoots a pothead, the falls
> > church incident (if I remember correctly the
> guy
> > was unarmed), and now this.
> >
> > Let's not forget what happened in Alexandria to
> > the guy who had his kid 'hostage', they ended
> up
> > killing the man.
> >
> > Senseless death.
>
> You are one of the many that believes bad things
> don't happen in your world. You go to sleep at
> night thinking you are safe and believing police
> are just riding around writing tickets. You go to
> work every day and sit at your desk and pray you
> won't become a victim of carpel tunnel syndrome.
> Police officers have other risks. First they go
> to work and put on body armor so they don't get
> murdered like many law enforcement officers WILL
> every year. Then they put on their belts which
> consist of all the tools they will need to help
> them have the advantage when they WILL have to
> fight someone who doesn't want to go to jail.
> Then, they arm themselves with years of training
> and experience so that when the bad man decides to
> take their life, the officer's brain will react a
> hundredth of a second faster and hopefully they
> will survive.
>
> See, policeman make mistakes. You will never
> forgive them for it, and the public will always
> exploit them. These mistakes are few and can't
> compare to the number of good things that police
> do - which you will never hear about. The fact
> is, if YOU put on the uniform you would probably
> either end up in prison, or get fired for being a
> coward. All of these "senseless deaths" you wrote
> about were justified shootings with the exception
> of the SWAT shooting in which there was no cover
> up, no smoke screens, nothing but the truth.
> Within hours of the shooting, the police
> department's Chief was on television explaining
> the accident.
>
> You rest easy my friend, the Police Officer will
> always have your back when you need him, even if
> he knows you hate him.

Meanwhile why you are spewing all your cop loving rhetoric from behind your computer, cops are busy beating the shit out of people unjustly, breaking laws daily, asshole crooked cops are everywhere and chowing down on doughnuts and being fat lazy assholes in general

And meanwhile, "ya" stares longingly at their leather boots and gunbelts, counting the minutes till he gets home and can fire up his well-worn DVD of "World's Most Dangerous Chases" and go to town on himself.

We already told you, "ya", be proud of what you are!

I don't honestly believe cops in fairfax are "crooked". They have too much to lose by taking bribes and being dishonest.

Reston, I never said Fairfax. I figured people were going to assume I have hatred for Fairfax County and was just talking shit, but Ive got first hand accounts of what DC cops have done. Its some pretty fucked up things.

By the way Watcher, obviously when your done watching the cops stroke, maybe you can watch me tell you to go fuck yourself. Get a life you fuckin internet child predator.

By the way Watcher, how about staying on topic or take your shitty insults to Off-topic. Its where pgens does all his whining.

but Ive got first hand accounts of what DC cops have done. Its some pretty fucked up things.

lets hear it, dont leave us hanging like that, chief

Ok, "ya", I will stay on topic. Pray tell, what are these "pretty fucked up things" you have seen DC cops do ?

And, as an aside, you are now referencing "internet child predators" in your posts. That might be one thing you DON'T want to mention to your therapist and be proud of. Just sayin'.

If REston peace wants to know, I'd be glad to tell him. As far as your concerned, you can go fuck your mom asshole. Im not wasting my time on you pervert.

well the rest of us would liek to know. so you can PM us all or just ype it once here.

A few DC cops gave a friend of mine an offer, Get whacked with the billy club and you can go free. A chance to be released and not get charged, since he wasnt from DC. They took him to a back alleyway and offered him a free punch on the officer which he did and then was beaten down by the cops. They left him lying in the street, no words...just simply left him laying in the street. Regardless of what happened...he did actually get to go free.

Before all of you little cop lovers start sayin well he had it coming for breaking the law or he hit the officer blah blah bullshit, it was the officers IDea to have the kid whacked with the club as a condition of not getting charged. Thats fucked up in my opinion.

Completely believable. Thanks for sharing, "ya" ! ........sigh...

Like I really care if you believe me or not. Your some fucking loser who spends who his time online all day....your a fucking nobody and whether you believe me or not, I dont give a shit. Obviously people will read it and whether they want to believe it or not thats up to them. Your little "sigh" at the end of your post only reflects how much of a fuckin bitch you are and that you probably dont know what real life is if it bit you in the ass nor will you ever. Keep "sighing" behind your computer you pussy all you want.

... sigh ...

Some things never change