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Fairfax Underground
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
DMV Observers.
()
Date: September 11, 2014 05:13PM
http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/11/report-obamacare-to-cancel-health-plans-for-250000-virginians/
Up to 250,000 Virginia residents will have their health insurance plans cancelled this fall due to Obamacare regulations, NBC 29 WVIR reports.
“Nearly a quarter million Virginians will have their current insurance plans cut this fall,” said a local NBC-29 anchor on Thursday. “That is because many of them did not — are not following new Affordable Care Act rules, so a chunk of the companies that offer those individuals their policies will make the individuals choose new policies.”
“This goes back to that now heavily-criticized line we heard before Obamacare was put in place: ‘If you like your plan, you can keep it,’” said reporter Alana Austin. “Ultimately, that turned out not to be true for thousands of Virginians and companies in the Commonwealth. … Wednesday Virginia lawmakers on the health insurance reform commission met for the first time this year. Turns out, a staggering number of Virginians will need new plans this fall.”
The Obama administration offered two rounds of extensions, allowing insurers to continue offering some health insurance plans that are noncompliant with the health-care law through October 2017.
The final decision on whether to accept the unilateral change to Obamacare regulations lies with the states, however, which can choose to turn down the fix and require insurers to remain compliant with Obamacare. Virginia is one of many states that did not accept the White House’s “administrative fix” for the outcry against cancellations.
Some states have pushed back against the changes, calling them an attempt to foist responsibility for Obamacare cancellations on the states. West Virginia filed a lawsuit against the Obama administration in July for the extension on the grounds that it violates the Affordable Care Act and leaves states responsible for enforcing federal
Up to 250,000 Virginia residents will have their health insurance plans cancelled this fall due to Obamacare regulations, NBC 29 WVIR reports.
“Nearly a quarter million Virginians will have their current insurance plans cut this fall,” said a local NBC-29 anchor on Thursday. “That is because many of them did not — are not following new Affordable Care Act rules, so a chunk of the companies that offer those individuals their policies will make the individuals choose new policies.”
“This goes back to that now heavily-criticized line we heard before Obamacare was put in place: ‘If you like your plan, you can keep it,’” said reporter Alana Austin. “Ultimately, that turned out not to be true for thousands of Virginians and companies in the Commonwealth. … Wednesday Virginia lawmakers on the health insurance reform commission met for the first time this year. Turns out, a staggering number of Virginians will need new plans this fall.”
The Obama administration offered two rounds of extensions, allowing insurers to continue offering some health insurance plans that are noncompliant with the health-care law through October 2017.
The final decision on whether to accept the unilateral change to Obamacare regulations lies with the states, however, which can choose to turn down the fix and require insurers to remain compliant with Obamacare. Virginia is one of many states that did not accept the White House’s “administrative fix” for the outcry against cancellations.
Some states have pushed back against the changes, calling them an attempt to foist responsibility for Obamacare cancellations on the states. West Virginia filed a lawsuit against the Obama administration in July for the extension on the grounds that it violates the Affordable Care Act and leaves states responsible for enforcing federal
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
I'm one of them
()
Date: September 11, 2014 05:25PM
I got the email this morning - was paying $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and starting January my premium will be $1,600/month with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Me too
()
Date: September 11, 2014 06:13PM
Got my letter from Aetna a few weeks ago.
I was able to keep what I had last year because of the delay but that's over for 2015.
Haven't looked yet to see what mine will be with the increases this year, but based on last year's options it would about double for a much lesser 60:40 policy with a $5,000 deductible.
Blows. The only people who benefit from this mess are those poor enough to get subsidies. Everyone else is paying significantly more to cover them.
I was able to keep what I had last year because of the delay but that's over for 2015.
Haven't looked yet to see what mine will be with the increases this year, but based on last year's options it would about double for a much lesser 60:40 policy with a $5,000 deductible.
Blows. The only people who benefit from this mess are those poor enough to get subsidies. Everyone else is paying significantly more to cover them.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
FREE SHIT ARMY.
()
Date: September 11, 2014 07:41PM
Thank you for paying more in your premium. You are now personally sponsoring a member of the Free Shit Army.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Don't rustle my jimmies, bro
()
Date: September 11, 2014 08:13PM
How about a non-biased source? Daily caller hardly counts.
Happy 9/11, fucktards.
Happy 9/11, fucktards.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Same
()
Date: September 11, 2014 08:24PM
Me too Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got my letter from Aetna a few weeks ago.
>
> I was able to keep what I had last year because of
> the delay but that's over for 2015.
>
> Haven't looked yet to see what mine will be with
> the increases this year, but based on last year's
> options it would about double for a much lesser
> 60:40 policy with a $5,000 deductible.
>
> Blows. The only people who benefit from this mess
> are those poor enough to get subsidies. Everyone
> else is paying significantly more to cover them.
I got my Aetna letter on Tuesday. Not looking froward to what shit plans im going to have to choose from.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got my letter from Aetna a few weeks ago.
>
> I was able to keep what I had last year because of
> the delay but that's over for 2015.
>
> Haven't looked yet to see what mine will be with
> the increases this year, but based on last year's
> options it would about double for a much lesser
> 60:40 policy with a $5,000 deductible.
>
> Blows. The only people who benefit from this mess
> are those poor enough to get subsidies. Everyone
> else is paying significantly more to cover them.
I got my Aetna letter on Tuesday. Not looking froward to what shit plans im going to have to choose from.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Greybeard
()
Date: September 11, 2014 09:23PM
I'm one of them Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got the email this morning - was paying
> $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> starting January my premium will be $1,600/month
> with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
Because, you know, health insurance plan rates never changed before Obamacare.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got the email this morning - was paying
> $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> starting January my premium will be $1,600/month
> with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
Because, you know, health insurance plan rates never changed before Obamacare.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Not Like There Are Now!
()
Date: September 11, 2014 09:53PM
Large increases. Thats Obama Affordable Health Care.
And the increases we were seeing.. Thanks to Democrats who dont support tort reform, Sue Sue Sue the doctors..Thats why prices were going up and the illegals who have been coming in droves the last ten years, they get medical care and never pay the bill.
Keep shilling for Mark Warner Obama and the Dems who helped give us this.
Government retired and employeed shills who pay almost nothing for health care while working or retired and get inflated pensions...the biggest Obama Care Supporters..
And the increases we were seeing.. Thanks to Democrats who dont support tort reform, Sue Sue Sue the doctors..Thats why prices were going up and the illegals who have been coming in droves the last ten years, they get medical care and never pay the bill.
Keep shilling for Mark Warner Obama and the Dems who helped give us this.
Government retired and employeed shills who pay almost nothing for health care while working or retired and get inflated pensions...the biggest Obama Care Supporters..
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Reading is fundamental
()
Date: September 11, 2014 09:53PM
Don't rustle my jimmies, bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about a non-biased source? Daily caller hardly
> counts.
> Happy 9/11, fucktards.
I guess you missed the part where it says:
"Up to 250,000 Virginia residents will have their health insurance plans cancelled this fall due to Obamacare regulations, NBC 29 WVIR reports."
http://www.nbc29.com/story/26500608/health-insurance-reform-commission-discusses-aca-coverage
The Commission itself is largely Republican so it's not exactly nonpartisan but the general story is correct and the numbers are in line with what I recall from last year when the deadline was extended for a year. All of those people now have to move over to ACA-compliant plans and in all cases in VA the rates are substantially higher than they were prior to. If you're one of the many self-employed who buy insurance on the individual market, then you get screwed.
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about a non-biased source? Daily caller hardly
> counts.
> Happy 9/11, fucktards.
I guess you missed the part where it says:
"Up to 250,000 Virginia residents will have their health insurance plans cancelled this fall due to Obamacare regulations, NBC 29 WVIR reports."
http://www.nbc29.com/story/26500608/health-insurance-reform-commission-discusses-aca-coverage
The Commission itself is largely Republican so it's not exactly nonpartisan but the general story is correct and the numbers are in line with what I recall from last year when the deadline was extended for a year. All of those people now have to move over to ACA-compliant plans and in all cases in VA the rates are substantially higher than they were prior to. If you're one of the many self-employed who buy insurance on the individual market, then you get screwed.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Fuck me
()
Date: September 11, 2014 10:16PM
Greybeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm one of them Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I got the email this morning - was paying
> > $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> > starting January my premium will be
> $1,600/month
> > with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
>
> Because, you know, health insurance plan rates
> never changed before Obamacare.
Not nearly to the extent that they have as a result.
The dynamics of this are very easy to understand...
Basically what they did was to take all of the people with significant health problems who were in the high-risk pools, people without insurance for a variety of reasons, and people who couldn't afford insurance, and tossed them all into what was the individual insurance market previously used mostly by the self-employed.
At the same they significantly increased the required scope and levels of coverage (i.e., costs).
They also reduced the options for the self-employed to self-insure for a slightly higher deductible using HSAs, etc., in order to greatly reduce premium costs but still maintain a higher level of coverage in the event that that they need to use it.
So you instantly have many more high-risk, old, and poor in the same individual pool with increased coverage requirements, resulting in higher overall costs for everyone. Those who had no insurance make out better. Those who are poor and have their insurance subsidized make out great. The majority of the people who were in the individual market prior to the change pay a lot more.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm one of them Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I got the email this morning - was paying
> > $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> > starting January my premium will be
> $1,600/month
> > with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
>
> Because, you know, health insurance plan rates
> never changed before Obamacare.
Not nearly to the extent that they have as a result.
The dynamics of this are very easy to understand...
Basically what they did was to take all of the people with significant health problems who were in the high-risk pools, people without insurance for a variety of reasons, and people who couldn't afford insurance, and tossed them all into what was the individual insurance market previously used mostly by the self-employed.
At the same they significantly increased the required scope and levels of coverage (i.e., costs).
They also reduced the options for the self-employed to self-insure for a slightly higher deductible using HSAs, etc., in order to greatly reduce premium costs but still maintain a higher level of coverage in the event that that they need to use it.
So you instantly have many more high-risk, old, and poor in the same individual pool with increased coverage requirements, resulting in higher overall costs for everyone. Those who had no insurance make out better. Those who are poor and have their insurance subsidized make out great. The majority of the people who were in the individual market prior to the change pay a lot more.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Greybeard
()
Date: September 12, 2014 09:20PM
Fuck me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not nearly to the extent that they have as a
> result.
Your description is accurate, but whether it's the cause in this instance isn't necessarily the case. My point was that there were always lots of stories of increases like this (seen 'em, even for companies), but there was nothing to blame it on other than the individual companies. Now we have Obamacare, which is convenient.
Of course, the insurance companies are still making buckets of money here. This is why it doesn't work to have for-profit companies running what's basically a public service, until and unless it's truly a free market (which is why car/house/etc. insurance mostly works). Most people have no real choice, being bound to their company insurance plans. And those companies have a wee bit of leverage, so they negotiate rates, which puts more pressure on the insurance companies to keep their outrageous profits up, so they stick it to the individuals more...
It's a classic positive fedback loop. And this (and, indeed, probably any discussion shorter than a novel!) vastly oversimplifies a complex and chaotic system.
The one thing that's clear is that it's a badly messed up system. I don't think the ACA is THE answer, but it's A step, and that gives me hope for improvements. Even if ACA makes things worse, I believe that ANY movement is better than a static and broken system.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not nearly to the extent that they have as a
> result.
Your description is accurate, but whether it's the cause in this instance isn't necessarily the case. My point was that there were always lots of stories of increases like this (seen 'em, even for companies), but there was nothing to blame it on other than the individual companies. Now we have Obamacare, which is convenient.
Of course, the insurance companies are still making buckets of money here. This is why it doesn't work to have for-profit companies running what's basically a public service, until and unless it's truly a free market (which is why car/house/etc. insurance mostly works). Most people have no real choice, being bound to their company insurance plans. And those companies have a wee bit of leverage, so they negotiate rates, which puts more pressure on the insurance companies to keep their outrageous profits up, so they stick it to the individuals more...
It's a classic positive fedback loop. And this (and, indeed, probably any discussion shorter than a novel!) vastly oversimplifies a complex and chaotic system.
The one thing that's clear is that it's a badly messed up system. I don't think the ACA is THE answer, but it's A step, and that gives me hope for improvements. Even if ACA makes things worse, I believe that ANY movement is better than a static and broken system.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
obama ur mama
()
Date: September 12, 2014 09:25PM
THAT IS WHAT YOU ASSHOLES GET FOR VOTING OBAMA INTO OFFICE....NOT ONCE....BUT TWICE.....
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Self-employed - Found Religion
()
Date: September 12, 2014 10:34PM
Take a look at health care sharing ministries.
A health care sharing ministry (HCSM) provides a health care cost sharing arrangement among persons of similar and sincerely held beliefs. HCSMs are not-for-profit religious organizations acting as a clearinghouse for those who have medical expenses and those who desire to share the burden of those medical expenses.
HCSMs receive no funding or grants from government sources.
HCSMs are not insurance companies. HCSM do not assume any risk or guarantee the payment of any medical bill. Twenty-eight states have explicitly recognized this and specifically exempt HCSMs from their insurance codes.
HCSMs serve more than 300,000 people, with participating households in all fifty states.
HCSMs’ participants share more than $200 million per year for one another’s health care costs.
HCSMs strive to be accessible to participants regardless of their income, because traditionally shares are a fraction of the cost of insurance rates.
A health care sharing ministry (HCSM) provides a health care cost sharing arrangement among persons of similar and sincerely held beliefs. HCSMs are not-for-profit religious organizations acting as a clearinghouse for those who have medical expenses and those who desire to share the burden of those medical expenses.
HCSMs receive no funding or grants from government sources.
HCSMs are not insurance companies. HCSM do not assume any risk or guarantee the payment of any medical bill. Twenty-eight states have explicitly recognized this and specifically exempt HCSMs from their insurance codes.
HCSMs serve more than 300,000 people, with participating households in all fifty states.
HCSMs’ participants share more than $200 million per year for one another’s health care costs.
HCSMs strive to be accessible to participants regardless of their income, because traditionally shares are a fraction of the cost of insurance rates.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Virginia Law
()
Date: September 12, 2014 10:56PM
Virginia Statute 38.2-6300/6301 clarifies that health care sharing ministries are not insurance and not subject to Virginia insurance regulations.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Vixis
()
Date: September 13, 2014 01:50AM
Who in the hell has $5,000 in their bank account or free money to pay their deductible? This is fucking insane. I tried getting healthcare when I was laid off in 2010, three plans: Kaiser..forget them! They had $5k-$15k deductible plans, who has that kind of fucking money. United Healthcare wanted to charge $800 a month, just for me! That is one paycheck for me! Then another plan, now get this, used demographics to decide premiums. Someone who lived 5 minutes down the street was charged $50 less than me, it was all based on where you lived. Healthcare is going to get outrageous, insurance companies are abusing the system. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
state employee
()
Date: September 13, 2014 05:23AM
I have been looking at my new plan under Obamacare and it looks really good. I am going to switch as soon as possible.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
HR employee
()
Date: September 13, 2014 07:50AM
Greybeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course, the insurance companies are still
> making buckets of money here. This is why it
> doesn't work to have for-profit companies running
> what's basically a public service, until and
> unless it's truly a free market (which is why
> car/house/etc. insurance mostly works). Most
> people have no real choice, being bound to their
> company insurance plans. And those companies have
> a wee bit of leverage, so they negotiate rates,
> which puts more pressure on the insurance
> companies to keep their outrageous profits up, so
> they stick it to the individuals more...
>
> It's a classic positive fedback loop. And this
> (and, indeed, probably any discussion shorter than
> a novel!) vastly oversimplifies a complex and
> chaotic system.
You nailed it right on the head, Graybeard. Although I don't deal directly with the ACA, I do deal with several insurance companies during open enrollment. If anyone is to blame for higher rates, it's their trying to squeeze out ever penny to make a buck - the ACA regs on policies don't really inflate the costs on individuals at all.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course, the insurance companies are still
> making buckets of money here. This is why it
> doesn't work to have for-profit companies running
> what's basically a public service, until and
> unless it's truly a free market (which is why
> car/house/etc. insurance mostly works). Most
> people have no real choice, being bound to their
> company insurance plans. And those companies have
> a wee bit of leverage, so they negotiate rates,
> which puts more pressure on the insurance
> companies to keep their outrageous profits up, so
> they stick it to the individuals more...
>
> It's a classic positive fedback loop. And this
> (and, indeed, probably any discussion shorter than
> a novel!) vastly oversimplifies a complex and
> chaotic system.
You nailed it right on the head, Graybeard. Although I don't deal directly with the ACA, I do deal with several insurance companies during open enrollment. If anyone is to blame for higher rates, it's their trying to squeeze out ever penny to make a buck - the ACA regs on policies don't really inflate the costs on individuals at all.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Dr. Yoo Doltz
()
Date: September 13, 2014 09:32AM
“Nearly a quarter million Virginians will have their current insurance plans cut this fall,” said a local NBC-29 anchor on Thursday.
“That is because many of them did not — are not following new Affordable Care Act rules, so a chunk of the companies that offer those individuals their policies will make the individuals choose new policies.”
Why are Republicans whining so loud?
The standard GOP argument is that if you don't follow the law you should suffer the consequences (i.e. illegal aliens came here illegally and should be deported).
The standard GOP argument is that we don't need to change the laws but enforce the existing laws already on the books (i.e. no need for immigration reform just enforcement of existing immigration laws and better border enforcement; no need for more gun laws, jus enforcement of the gun laws already on the books).
If we apply those Republican logical arguments to the Affordable Healthcare Act (a law which has withstood multiple court challenges, and been upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States), if you are not in compliance with the law of the land, we should enforce the law and tough shit for you because you failed to follow the law.
Further, we don't need to repeal ObamaCare or try to 50+ times to repeal it, we should just enforce the law as it stands and to hell with those who fail to comply. Fine them. Increase their rates. Cancel their non-compliant plans.
Attachments:
“That is because many of them did not — are not following new Affordable Care Act rules, so a chunk of the companies that offer those individuals their policies will make the individuals choose new policies.”
Why are Republicans whining so loud?
The standard GOP argument is that if you don't follow the law you should suffer the consequences (i.e. illegal aliens came here illegally and should be deported).
The standard GOP argument is that we don't need to change the laws but enforce the existing laws already on the books (i.e. no need for immigration reform just enforcement of existing immigration laws and better border enforcement; no need for more gun laws, jus enforcement of the gun laws already on the books).
If we apply those Republican logical arguments to the Affordable Healthcare Act (a law which has withstood multiple court challenges, and been upheld by the Supreme Court of the United States), if you are not in compliance with the law of the land, we should enforce the law and tough shit for you because you failed to follow the law.
Further, we don't need to repeal ObamaCare or try to 50+ times to repeal it, we should just enforce the law as it stands and to hell with those who fail to comply. Fine them. Increase their rates. Cancel their non-compliant plans.
Attachments:
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
because
()
Date: September 13, 2014 09:47AM
Because some people are being exempted by EO for political reasons. Because HHS put in so many "extras" and required them for people who don't need them. Because people who were already purchasing insurance independently are paying the price for people who chose not to purchase before. Because this law was passed against the wishes of the people. Why do you think the GOP won the House in 2010? Because lots of additional items were added at the discretion of HHS which were not spelled out in the law. Because parts of the law were postponed by executive order to ensure that the President was reelected. People were not aware of just how much it was going to cost.
Mostly because this law was passed on LIES.
Mostly because this law was passed on LIES.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
because, cont.
()
Date: September 13, 2014 09:49AM
Oh, and by the way, Dr. Yoo, the Republicans are whining because they DO comply with the law--even when it is costing way too much money.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Mgmt
()
Date: September 13, 2014 10:12AM
HR employee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greybeard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Of course, the insurance companies are still
> > making buckets of money here. This is why it
> > doesn't work to have for-profit companies
> running
> > what's basically a public service, until and
> > unless it's truly a free market (which is why
> > car/house/etc. insurance mostly works). Most
> > people have no real choice, being bound to
> their
> > company insurance plans. And those companies
> have
> > a wee bit of leverage, so they negotiate rates,
> > which puts more pressure on the insurance
> > companies to keep their outrageous profits up,
> so
> > they stick it to the individuals more...
> >
> > It's a classic positive fedback loop. And this
> > (and, indeed, probably any discussion shorter
> than
> > a novel!) vastly oversimplifies a complex and
> > chaotic system.
>
> You nailed it right on the head, Graybeard.
> Although I don't deal directly with the ACA, I do
> deal with several insurance companies during open
> enrollment. If anyone is to blame for higher
> rates, it's their trying to squeeze out ever penny
> to make a buck - the ACA regs on policies don't
> really inflate the costs on individuals at all.
Right. I'm aware of what my company pays and what it passes on to the employees for insurance. We've been taking substantial hits over the past decade. Some we've been able to absorb so the employee has no idea, but eventually we can only take so much.
Some companies were biting the bullet, but the misinformation campaign by the opponents gave them the perfect scapegoat to pass along some more costs to the employee blaming Obamacare. Same for the insurance companies just raising rates because they had the opportunity with top cover.
Other companies don't give a shit, so they'll just pass it all on to you no matter what.
Maybe some have been lucky enough to avoid rate increases, but to suggest they "just started" thanks to Obama is ridiculous. Get a job or work your way into management and you'll know what the real situation is.
The problem isn't Obamacare, the problem is ridiculous fees for procedures and those fees are driven by the ridiculous cost of doing business for medical practices. Publicly traded insurance companies don't have an interest in making more money either right?
Tort reform should be job #1, but too many lawyers love the way things are now.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greybeard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Of course, the insurance companies are still
> > making buckets of money here. This is why it
> > doesn't work to have for-profit companies
> running
> > what's basically a public service, until and
> > unless it's truly a free market (which is why
> > car/house/etc. insurance mostly works). Most
> > people have no real choice, being bound to
> their
> > company insurance plans. And those companies
> have
> > a wee bit of leverage, so they negotiate rates,
> > which puts more pressure on the insurance
> > companies to keep their outrageous profits up,
> so
> > they stick it to the individuals more...
> >
> > It's a classic positive fedback loop. And this
> > (and, indeed, probably any discussion shorter
> than
> > a novel!) vastly oversimplifies a complex and
> > chaotic system.
>
> You nailed it right on the head, Graybeard.
> Although I don't deal directly with the ACA, I do
> deal with several insurance companies during open
> enrollment. If anyone is to blame for higher
> rates, it's their trying to squeeze out ever penny
> to make a buck - the ACA regs on policies don't
> really inflate the costs on individuals at all.
Right. I'm aware of what my company pays and what it passes on to the employees for insurance. We've been taking substantial hits over the past decade. Some we've been able to absorb so the employee has no idea, but eventually we can only take so much.
Some companies were biting the bullet, but the misinformation campaign by the opponents gave them the perfect scapegoat to pass along some more costs to the employee blaming Obamacare. Same for the insurance companies just raising rates because they had the opportunity with top cover.
Other companies don't give a shit, so they'll just pass it all on to you no matter what.
Maybe some have been lucky enough to avoid rate increases, but to suggest they "just started" thanks to Obama is ridiculous. Get a job or work your way into management and you'll know what the real situation is.
The problem isn't Obamacare, the problem is ridiculous fees for procedures and those fees are driven by the ridiculous cost of doing business for medical practices. Publicly traded insurance companies don't have an interest in making more money either right?
Tort reform should be job #1, but too many lawyers love the way things are now.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Da Truth
()
Date: September 13, 2014 10:38AM
One day Americans will wake up and realize that socialized healthcare is the only way to go. Just ask Britain, France....and well the rest of the civilized world.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
MrHealth
()
Date: September 13, 2014 11:01AM
Greybeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm one of them Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I got the email this morning - was paying
> > $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> > starting January my premium will be
> $1,600/month
> > with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
>
> Because, you know, health insurance plan rates
> never changed before Obamacare.
Come on Grey, I'm an Obama fan too but they never changed that drastically. You don't have to blindly agree with everything 100%. This guy is getting screwed.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm one of them Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I got the email this morning - was paying
> > $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> > starting January my premium will be
> $1,600/month
> > with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
>
> Because, you know, health insurance plan rates
> never changed before Obamacare.
Come on Grey, I'm an Obama fan too but they never changed that drastically. You don't have to blindly agree with everything 100%. This guy is getting screwed.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
iLester
()
Date: September 13, 2014 11:29AM
The ridiculous cost of the educational system is embedded in the healthcare system. It's not just doctors, but nurse practitioners and nurses.
Obamacare was a big boon to hospitals. Now they can recover uncompensated care costs that was being reimbursed by governments.
Obamacare was a big boon to hospitals. Now they can recover uncompensated care costs that was being reimbursed by governments.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
knK4X
()
Date: September 13, 2014 11:45AM
I'm one of them Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got the email this morning - was paying
> $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> starting January my premium will be $1,600/month
> with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
Do you work for a large company?
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got the email this morning - was paying
> $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> starting January my premium will be $1,600/month
> with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
Do you work for a large company?
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
just ask
()
Date: September 13, 2014 12:21PM
It's all the rules and regulations. Just ask your doctor.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
nLUDW
()
Date: September 13, 2014 12:28PM
I'm a Dumbfuck Wrote:
Even if ACA makes things worse,
> I believe that ANY movement is better than a
> static and broken system.
Want to try that again dumbass?
Even if ACA makes things worse,
> I believe that ANY movement is better than a
> static and broken system.
Want to try that again dumbass?
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Dr. Bombay
()
Date: September 13, 2014 01:10PM
MrHealth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greybeard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm one of them Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I got the email this morning - was paying
> > > $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible
> and
> > > starting January my premium will be
> > $1,600/month
> > > with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
> >
> > Because, you know, health insurance plan rates
> > never changed before Obamacare.
>
> Come on Grey, I'm an Obama fan too but they never
> changed that drastically. You don't have to
> blindly agree with everything 100%. This guy is
> getting screwed.
Right. We're not talking about 'normal' increases to premium costs. Or some macroeconomic increase to healthcare costs. Both happened in the past and even with the changes continue to rise. The premium rates for the 'Obamacare' plans in VA also will increase this year by an average of around 7% depending on company and plan.
The much larger increases as here are those for people who now must move to ACA-compliant plans from their pre-ACA plans which no longer can be offered. There are about 400,000 people in the individual market in VA. About 60% of those were able to keep their old plan for another year. That ends for 2015. That's where the 250,000 number comes from. The new plans are significantly more expensive and, while they meet requirements for the '10 essential benefits' which all plans now must offer, generally they have much lower coverage levels, high deductibles, and higher out-of-pocket costs.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Greybeard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm one of them Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I got the email this morning - was paying
> > > $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible
> and
> > > starting January my premium will be
> > $1,600/month
> > > with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
> >
> > Because, you know, health insurance plan rates
> > never changed before Obamacare.
>
> Come on Grey, I'm an Obama fan too but they never
> changed that drastically. You don't have to
> blindly agree with everything 100%. This guy is
> getting screwed.
Right. We're not talking about 'normal' increases to premium costs. Or some macroeconomic increase to healthcare costs. Both happened in the past and even with the changes continue to rise. The premium rates for the 'Obamacare' plans in VA also will increase this year by an average of around 7% depending on company and plan.
The much larger increases as here are those for people who now must move to ACA-compliant plans from their pre-ACA plans which no longer can be offered. There are about 400,000 people in the individual market in VA. About 60% of those were able to keep their old plan for another year. That ends for 2015. That's where the 250,000 number comes from. The new plans are significantly more expensive and, while they meet requirements for the '10 essential benefits' which all plans now must offer, generally they have much lower coverage levels, high deductibles, and higher out-of-pocket costs.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Winning Workforce
()
Date: September 13, 2014 01:30PM
It really all depends on what your employer chooses to subsidize.
If your employer passes down additional benefit costs to employees, just leave and find a better employer. They may be able to hide behind the cover of "due to Obamacare, costs are rising and plans are changing", but don't be naive and look beyond the corporate messenging bullshit. If they claim they may have to reduce the workforce or shutter operations, perhaps that's not the best place to work anyway because they can't keep up with the changing times.
If your employer passes down additional benefit costs to employees, just leave and find a better employer. They may be able to hide behind the cover of "due to Obamacare, costs are rising and plans are changing", but don't be naive and look beyond the corporate messenging bullshit. If they claim they may have to reduce the workforce or shutter operations, perhaps that's not the best place to work anyway because they can't keep up with the changing times.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
iLester
()
Date: September 13, 2014 01:33PM
The employer has to maintain the level of subsidy for the insurance premium to keep the grandfathered status. The alternative is to raise the deductible, coinsurance, and copay.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Dr. Bombay
()
Date: September 13, 2014 01:53PM
Winning Workforce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It really all depends on what your employer
> chooses to subsidize.
>
> If your employer passes down additional benefit
> costs to employees, just leave and find a better
> employer. They may be able to hide behind the
> cover of "due to Obamacare, costs are rising and
> plans are changing", but don't be naive and look
> beyond the corporate messenging bullshit. If they
> claim they may have to reduce the workforce or
> shutter operations, perhaps that's not the best
> place to work anyway because they can't keep up
> with the changing times.
This isn't about employers. Yet anyway for the most part. Though that's coming soon.
It's specific to the individual insurance market. We don't have employers. It's mostly self-employed people and others who buy their insurance directly versus through employer-provided plans.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It really all depends on what your employer
> chooses to subsidize.
>
> If your employer passes down additional benefit
> costs to employees, just leave and find a better
> employer. They may be able to hide behind the
> cover of "due to Obamacare, costs are rising and
> plans are changing", but don't be naive and look
> beyond the corporate messenging bullshit. If they
> claim they may have to reduce the workforce or
> shutter operations, perhaps that's not the best
> place to work anyway because they can't keep up
> with the changing times.
This isn't about employers. Yet anyway for the most part. Though that's coming soon.
It's specific to the individual insurance market. We don't have employers. It's mostly self-employed people and others who buy their insurance directly versus through employer-provided plans.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Hey, stupid shit
()
Date: September 13, 2014 02:04PM
Mgmt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tort reform should be job #1, but too many lawyers
> love the way things are now.
So-called "tort reform" has nothing to do with health care. It's a naked corporate ploy to provide blanket protection to big businesses for knowingly and deliberately harming people with dangerous and criminally defective products.
The actually separate matter of malpractice insurance premiums is another total right-wing scam. Premiums vary widely by specialty, by region, by degree of competition in state insurance markets, and with the recent direction of the stock market. Further, most states already have caps on jury awards. They make no effective difference except for screwing people who have been harmed through medical malfeasance. But keep on swallowing the corporate swill, goober. The Koch brothers are counting on you to come through for them.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tort reform should be job #1, but too many lawyers
> love the way things are now.
So-called "tort reform" has nothing to do with health care. It's a naked corporate ploy to provide blanket protection to big businesses for knowingly and deliberately harming people with dangerous and criminally defective products.
The actually separate matter of malpractice insurance premiums is another total right-wing scam. Premiums vary widely by specialty, by region, by degree of competition in state insurance markets, and with the recent direction of the stock market. Further, most states already have caps on jury awards. They make no effective difference except for screwing people who have been harmed through medical malfeasance. But keep on swallowing the corporate swill, goober. The Koch brothers are counting on you to come through for them.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
LOL.....
()
Date: September 13, 2014 02:09PM
Da Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One day Americans will wake up and realize that
> socialized healthcare is the only way to go. Just
> ask Britain, France....and well the rest of the
> civilized world.
Most of the intelligent people have already figured this out. It's not rocket science, after all. But it can take the whackjobs and goobers a l-o-n-g time to figure out even the simple stuff.
-------------------------------------------------------
> One day Americans will wake up and realize that
> socialized healthcare is the only way to go. Just
> ask Britain, France....and well the rest of the
> civilized world.
Most of the intelligent people have already figured this out. It's not rocket science, after all. But it can take the whackjobs and goobers a l-o-n-g time to figure out even the simple stuff.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Actually...
()
Date: September 13, 2014 02:20PM
MrHealth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Come on Grey, I'm an Obama fan too but they never
> changed that drastically. You don't have to
> blindly agree with everything 100%. This guy is
> getting screwed.
Rates of increase in heath care costs premiums have DECLINED since PPACA was passed. Things before were on a path toward driving the nation to financial ruin. That's why health care reform was such an issue in the 2008 campaign. PPACA finally puts us on a path toward sanity.
It meanwhile appears that "this guy" is getting screwed only because he was one of those who tried to enjoy a health care umbrella without paying any of the costs for it. Fuck him. Everybody gets coverage and everybody pitches in to help pay for it. No more asswipe free-riders stiffing everybody else for the costs of care.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Come on Grey, I'm an Obama fan too but they never
> changed that drastically. You don't have to
> blindly agree with everything 100%. This guy is
> getting screwed.
Rates of increase in heath care costs premiums have DECLINED since PPACA was passed. Things before were on a path toward driving the nation to financial ruin. That's why health care reform was such an issue in the 2008 campaign. PPACA finally puts us on a path toward sanity.
It meanwhile appears that "this guy" is getting screwed only because he was one of those who tried to enjoy a health care umbrella without paying any of the costs for it. Fuck him. Everybody gets coverage and everybody pitches in to help pay for it. No more asswipe free-riders stiffing everybody else for the costs of care.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
LOL.....
()
Date: September 13, 2014 02:24PM
just ask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's all the rules and regulations. Just ask your doctor.
Who will indict the insurance companies along with various right-wing goobers now or once in Congress.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's all the rules and regulations. Just ask your doctor.
Who will indict the insurance companies along with various right-wing goobers now or once in Congress.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Tired of free-loaders
()
Date: September 13, 2014 02:39PM
Dr. Bombay Wrote:
> The new plans are significantly more expensive and,
> while they meet requirements for the '10 essential benefits'
> which all plans now must offer, generally they have much
> lower coverage levels, high deductibles, and higher out-
> of-pocket costs.
The now illegal plans were cheaper because they didn't actually cover anything. Carrying grossly inadequate insurance is just a flavor of carrying no insurance at all. Both of those options are now illegal, and this has been coming over the horizon for five fucking years. How stupid do people have to be not to have seen that coming and planned for it? There actually is no such level of stupid. These pikers did it knowingly and deliberately. They have simply been trying to skate on their responsibilities again even knowing that this day was coming. Fuck the lot of these selfish assholes. Let these useless anti-social derps learn a lesson for a change,
> The new plans are significantly more expensive and,
> while they meet requirements for the '10 essential benefits'
> which all plans now must offer, generally they have much
> lower coverage levels, high deductibles, and higher out-
> of-pocket costs.
The now illegal plans were cheaper because they didn't actually cover anything. Carrying grossly inadequate insurance is just a flavor of carrying no insurance at all. Both of those options are now illegal, and this has been coming over the horizon for five fucking years. How stupid do people have to be not to have seen that coming and planned for it? There actually is no such level of stupid. These pikers did it knowingly and deliberately. They have simply been trying to skate on their responsibilities again even knowing that this day was coming. Fuck the lot of these selfish assholes. Let these useless anti-social derps learn a lesson for a change,
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Dr. Bombay
()
Date: September 13, 2014 03:04PM
Actually... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrHealth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Come on Grey, I'm an Obama fan too but they
> never
> > changed that drastically. You don't have to
> > blindly agree with everything 100%. This guy
> is
> > getting screwed.
>
> Rates of increase in heath care costs premiums
> have DECLINED since PPACA was passed. Things
> before were on a path toward driving the nation to
> financial ruin. That's why health care reform was
> such an issue in the 2008 campaign. PPACA finally
> puts us on a path toward sanity.
The RATE of increases to overall healthcare spending has slowed. Not overall cost growth. Not premium costs. And little of that is attributed to 'Obamacare.' As noted by most analysts, Obamacare hasn't been in place long enough to result in any significant changes one way or another. As noted by OMB and others, it's primarily due to general economic factors, changes which reduced Medicare reimbursements, and due to some widely prescribed medications coming off of patent. And it's a temporary condition which is expected to reverse and increase substantially in future years.
>
> It meanwhile appears that "this guy" is getting
> screwed only because he was one of those who tried
> to enjoy a health care umbrella without paying any
> of the costs for it. Fuck him. Everybody gets
> coverage and everybody pitches in to help pay for
> it. No more asswipe free-riders stiffing
> everybody else for the costs of care.
That's bullshit. Most of these plans were basically the same as those now offered. They came from the same insurance companies with roughly the same benefits and services from the same providers. The only thing that's changed is that they now must meet specific requirements under the law. That comprises '10 Essential benefits' most of which were provided under most prior plans and also comply with various other mostly administrative/structural requirements. The primary difference is that you now have no option or ability to better tailor plans to your specific needs. Everyone now must buy the rough equivalent of a full-loaded auto policy with a full-service maintenance plan attached. And the generally higher costs for these plans reflect that.
The problem is that everyone isn't pitching in. In this case, and in addition to the higher costs due to expanded coverage requirements noted above, as a direct result of increasing the risk/costs within the individual insurance market pool by adding en mass lots of older, sicker, and more poor participants, the costs for the individual market primarily are borne by those who were there prior to and have to continue to rely on the individual market for their insurance.
They increased what must be covered, eliminated various options to reduce costs, and greatly increased the level of risk in the individual insurance market pool. As a result, costs greatly increase for those of us in this market.
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrHealth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Come on Grey, I'm an Obama fan too but they
> never
> > changed that drastically. You don't have to
> > blindly agree with everything 100%. This guy
> is
> > getting screwed.
>
> Rates of increase in heath care costs premiums
> have DECLINED since PPACA was passed. Things
> before were on a path toward driving the nation to
> financial ruin. That's why health care reform was
> such an issue in the 2008 campaign. PPACA finally
> puts us on a path toward sanity.
The RATE of increases to overall healthcare spending has slowed. Not overall cost growth. Not premium costs. And little of that is attributed to 'Obamacare.' As noted by most analysts, Obamacare hasn't been in place long enough to result in any significant changes one way or another. As noted by OMB and others, it's primarily due to general economic factors, changes which reduced Medicare reimbursements, and due to some widely prescribed medications coming off of patent. And it's a temporary condition which is expected to reverse and increase substantially in future years.
>
> It meanwhile appears that "this guy" is getting
> screwed only because he was one of those who tried
> to enjoy a health care umbrella without paying any
> of the costs for it. Fuck him. Everybody gets
> coverage and everybody pitches in to help pay for
> it. No more asswipe free-riders stiffing
> everybody else for the costs of care.
That's bullshit. Most of these plans were basically the same as those now offered. They came from the same insurance companies with roughly the same benefits and services from the same providers. The only thing that's changed is that they now must meet specific requirements under the law. That comprises '10 Essential benefits' most of which were provided under most prior plans and also comply with various other mostly administrative/structural requirements. The primary difference is that you now have no option or ability to better tailor plans to your specific needs. Everyone now must buy the rough equivalent of a full-loaded auto policy with a full-service maintenance plan attached. And the generally higher costs for these plans reflect that.
The problem is that everyone isn't pitching in. In this case, and in addition to the higher costs due to expanded coverage requirements noted above, as a direct result of increasing the risk/costs within the individual insurance market pool by adding en mass lots of older, sicker, and more poor participants, the costs for the individual market primarily are borne by those who were there prior to and have to continue to rely on the individual market for their insurance.
They increased what must be covered, eliminated various options to reduce costs, and greatly increased the level of risk in the individual insurance market pool. As a result, costs greatly increase for those of us in this market.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Dr. Bombay
()
Date: September 13, 2014 03:14PM
Tired of free-loaders Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Bombay Wrote:
> > The new plans are significantly more expensive
> and,
> > while they meet requirements for the '10
> essential benefits'
> > which all plans now must offer, generally they
> have much
> > lower coverage levels, high deductibles, and
> higher out-
> > of-pocket costs.
>
> The now illegal plans were cheaper because they
> didn't actually cover anything. Carrying grossly
> inadequate insurance is just a flavor of carrying
> no insurance at all. Both of those options are
> now illegal, and this has been coming over the
> horizon for five fucking years. How stupid do
> people have to be not to have seen that coming and
> planned for it? There actually is no such level
> of stupid. These pikers did it knowingly and
> deliberately. They have simply been trying to
> skate on their responsibilities again even knowing
> that this day was coming. Fuck the lot of these
> selfish assholes. Let these useless anti-social
> derps learn a lesson for a change,
Bullshit.
The plans that I had over the years and as typical for most self-employed people were basically the same as those now offered. They were standard health insurance plans generally equal to those offered through employer-provided plans from the same major carriers. In my case, most recently through Aetna and in the past through BC/BS and Kaiser. The coverage levels were in fact better than what now is offered at anywhere near the same cost. The primary difference versus now is that there were more options to better structure plans and costs to specific individual needs and, as above, who was included in the individual pool.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Bombay Wrote:
> > The new plans are significantly more expensive
> and,
> > while they meet requirements for the '10
> essential benefits'
> > which all plans now must offer, generally they
> have much
> > lower coverage levels, high deductibles, and
> higher out-
> > of-pocket costs.
>
> The now illegal plans were cheaper because they
> didn't actually cover anything. Carrying grossly
> inadequate insurance is just a flavor of carrying
> no insurance at all. Both of those options are
> now illegal, and this has been coming over the
> horizon for five fucking years. How stupid do
> people have to be not to have seen that coming and
> planned for it? There actually is no such level
> of stupid. These pikers did it knowingly and
> deliberately. They have simply been trying to
> skate on their responsibilities again even knowing
> that this day was coming. Fuck the lot of these
> selfish assholes. Let these useless anti-social
> derps learn a lesson for a change,
Bullshit.
The plans that I had over the years and as typical for most self-employed people were basically the same as those now offered. They were standard health insurance plans generally equal to those offered through employer-provided plans from the same major carriers. In my case, most recently through Aetna and in the past through BC/BS and Kaiser. The coverage levels were in fact better than what now is offered at anywhere near the same cost. The primary difference versus now is that there were more options to better structure plans and costs to specific individual needs and, as above, who was included in the individual pool.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Phonies and Pipsqueaks
()
Date: September 13, 2014 03:44PM
Dr. Bombay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The RATE of increases to overall healthcare
> spending has slowed. Not overall cost growth.
> Not premium costs.
There is no point to debating with outright liars.
> That's bullshit. Most of these plans were
> basically the same as those now offered.
If that were true, they would still be legal.
-------------------------------------------------------
> The RATE of increases to overall healthcare
> spending has slowed. Not overall cost growth.
> Not premium costs.
There is no point to debating with outright liars.
> That's bullshit. Most of these plans were
> basically the same as those now offered.
If that were true, they would still be legal.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Heres The Truth
()
Date: September 13, 2014 04:14PM
>
Mgmt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tort reform should be job #1, but too many lawyers
> love the way things are now.
Tort reform should be job #1, but too many DEMOCRATS LOOKING FOR A MEDICAL LOTTERY JACKPOT love the way things are now.
Fixed it... Now read the party line of bullshit from the "stupid shit" above
Mgmt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tort reform should be job #1, but too many lawyers
> love the way things are now.
Tort reform should be job #1, but too many DEMOCRATS LOOKING FOR A MEDICAL LOTTERY JACKPOT love the way things are now.
Fixed it... Now read the party line of bullshit from the "stupid shit" above
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Honestly
()
Date: September 13, 2014 04:31PM
OF COURSE working people are paying way more in taxes and health insurance. Tens of millions flood into the country and are awarded a full range of benefits including health care and education. The ACA was a lie from Day 1.
An illegal family with two children in FCPS cost Fairfax taxpayers well over $30,000 per year for education alone, less whatever county taxes the family pays.
I was just quoted $2000, after insurance deduction, for a precautionary MRI on my finger.
It is fact, not opinion, Obama is the worst president in U.S. history (and Gerry Connolly is his livery servant).
An illegal family with two children in FCPS cost Fairfax taxpayers well over $30,000 per year for education alone, less whatever county taxes the family pays.
I was just quoted $2000, after insurance deduction, for a precautionary MRI on my finger.
It is fact, not opinion, Obama is the worst president in U.S. history (and Gerry Connolly is his livery servant).
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
what's yer prob bro?
()
Date: September 13, 2014 05:03PM
obama ur mama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THAT IS WHAT YOU ASSHOLES GET FOR VOTING OBAMA
> INTO OFFICE....NOT ONCE....BUT TWICE.....
What's yer problem bro? I gots mine.. fer free. Now go back to work and quit yer bitchen.You can call me on my Obamaphone.. The number is 1 800 ura-fool
-------------------------------------------------------
> THAT IS WHAT YOU ASSHOLES GET FOR VOTING OBAMA
> INTO OFFICE....NOT ONCE....BUT TWICE.....
What's yer problem bro? I gots mine.. fer free. Now go back to work and quit yer bitchen.You can call me on my Obamaphone.. The number is 1 800 ura-fool
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Dr. Bombay
()
Date: September 13, 2014 05:19PM
Phonies and Pipsqueaks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Bombay Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The RATE of increases to overall healthcare
> > spending has slowed. Not overall cost growth.
> > Not premium costs.
>
> There is no point to debating with outright liars.
Everything that I've said is exactly the case. You have nothing to offer beyond tired talking points. Which aren't even up to date. Even people like Jonathan Gruber and Zeke Emanuel who were primary architects of the bill concede the same.
>
>
> > That's bullshit. Most of these plans were
> > basically the same as those now offered.
>
> If that were true, they would still be legal.
Nope. It simply means that they are not compliant on some basis. Not that they are/were "crap insurance." Most employer-provided plans also now are "non-compliant" and will require modification likely with similar cost increases. "Cadillac" plans which provide very high levels of coverage also are "non-compliant."
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr. Bombay Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The RATE of increases to overall healthcare
> > spending has slowed. Not overall cost growth.
> > Not premium costs.
>
> There is no point to debating with outright liars.
Everything that I've said is exactly the case. You have nothing to offer beyond tired talking points. Which aren't even up to date. Even people like Jonathan Gruber and Zeke Emanuel who were primary architects of the bill concede the same.
>
>
> > That's bullshit. Most of these plans were
> > basically the same as those now offered.
>
> If that were true, they would still be legal.
Nope. It simply means that they are not compliant on some basis. Not that they are/were "crap insurance." Most employer-provided plans also now are "non-compliant" and will require modification likely with similar cost increases. "Cadillac" plans which provide very high levels of coverage also are "non-compliant."
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Greybeard
()
Date: September 13, 2014 10:21PM
nLUDW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm a Dumbfuck Wrote:
>> Even if ACA makes things worse,
>> I believe that ANY movement is better than a
>> static and broken system.
> Want to try that again dumbass?
Well, that certainly went ad hominem in a hurry. Let me spell it out for you:
- Current system is broken, is headed for complete failure. Nobody in the know disputes this AFAICT.
- Many people (including many on this forum) don't understand the way it works now.
- Ergo, any change is good in the long run: if change makes things worse, then it will by necessity and popular outcry be followed by more change.
Better? Clearer?
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm a Dumbfuck Wrote:
>> Even if ACA makes things worse,
>> I believe that ANY movement is better than a
>> static and broken system.
> Want to try that again dumbass?
Well, that certainly went ad hominem in a hurry. Let me spell it out for you:
- Current system is broken, is headed for complete failure. Nobody in the know disputes this AFAICT.
- Many people (including many on this forum) don't understand the way it works now.
- Ergo, any change is good in the long run: if change makes things worse, then it will by necessity and popular outcry be followed by more change.
Better? Clearer?
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Ismellit Ismellshit
()
Date: September 13, 2014 10:49PM
So very funny that the lib government democrats, party line hacks, capitol hill staffers, here support Obama Care .. They pay very little for their policies working or retired, low deductibles. Good bennies,
People who work for large defense contractors here have good bennies too, but there more real world related.And know what its like in the "Real World".
The rest are just folks in the "Real World" who are getting the shaft working for smaller employers...with Obama Cares impossible deductibles.. and prices.. Affordable?? Wish those party line hacks had to pay the costs. Just like the Majority of Americans do..Fuck Obama Care and the Democrats that brought it in...forced down the American peoples throats..
People who work for large defense contractors here have good bennies too, but there more real world related.And know what its like in the "Real World".
The rest are just folks in the "Real World" who are getting the shaft working for smaller employers...with Obama Cares impossible deductibles.. and prices.. Affordable?? Wish those party line hacks had to pay the costs. Just like the Majority of Americans do..Fuck Obama Care and the Democrats that brought it in...forced down the American peoples throats..
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Grey Balls
()
Date: September 13, 2014 10:57PM
Please refrain from using the word "ergo". It sounds overly pretentious and Republicans will likely not understand what that foreign term means.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Tired of Stupid Ppl
()
Date: September 13, 2014 10:59PM
Ismellit Ismellshit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So very funny that the lib government democrats,
> party line hacks, capitol hill staffers, here
> support Obama Care .. They pay very little for
> their policies working or retired, low
> deductibles. Good bennies,
>
> People who work for large defense contractors here
> have good bennies too, but there more real world
> related.And know what its like in the "Real
> World".
>
> The rest are just folks in the "Real World" who
> are getting the shaft working for smaller
> employers...with Obama Cares impossible
> deductibles.. and prices.. Affordable?? Wish those
> party line hacks had to pay the costs. Just like
> the Majority of Americans do..Fuck Obama Care and
> the Democrats that brought it in...forced down the
> American peoples throats..
Well, your opinion means shit to anyone, so why give it?
If you knew what the hell you were talking about you wouldn't sound like such an idiot.
-------------------------------------------------------
> So very funny that the lib government democrats,
> party line hacks, capitol hill staffers, here
> support Obama Care .. They pay very little for
> their policies working or retired, low
> deductibles. Good bennies,
>
> People who work for large defense contractors here
> have good bennies too, but there more real world
> related.And know what its like in the "Real
> World".
>
> The rest are just folks in the "Real World" who
> are getting the shaft working for smaller
> employers...with Obama Cares impossible
> deductibles.. and prices.. Affordable?? Wish those
> party line hacks had to pay the costs. Just like
> the Majority of Americans do..Fuck Obama Care and
> the Democrats that brought it in...forced down the
> American peoples throats..
Well, your opinion means shit to anyone, so why give it?
If you knew what the hell you were talking about you wouldn't sound like such an idiot.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Ismellit Ismellshit
()
Date: September 13, 2014 11:08PM
>you wouldn't sound like such an idiot.
Thats "All You Got" ??? Typical Democrat response. LOL..
Thats "All You Got" ??? Typical Democrat response. LOL..
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Lololol
()
Date: September 14, 2014 08:32AM
Ismellit Ismellshit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >you wouldn't sound like such an idiot.
>
> Thats "All You Got" ??? Typical Democrat response.
> LOL..
It's typical because it's true! Lolololol
-------------------------------------------------------
> >you wouldn't sound like such an idiot.
>
> Thats "All You Got" ??? Typical Democrat response.
> LOL..
It's typical because it's true! Lolololol
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
3hhGk
()
Date: September 14, 2014 08:51AM
I'm one of them Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got the email this morning - was paying
> $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> starting January my premium will be $1,600/month
> with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
What BS. Really and people are acting like this is actually true.
Here let me try:
"I got a letter from my insurance and it said my rates were going from $400 per month to $2200 per month. They also increased my annual deductible from $2500 to $10,000 and they eliminated my prescription medicine coverage - thanks Obama!'
-------------------------------------------------------
> I got the email this morning - was paying
> $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> starting January my premium will be $1,600/month
> with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
What BS. Really and people are acting like this is actually true.
Here let me try:
"I got a letter from my insurance and it said my rates were going from $400 per month to $2200 per month. They also increased my annual deductible from $2500 to $10,000 and they eliminated my prescription medicine coverage - thanks Obama!'
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Soon to be Uninsured
()
Date: September 15, 2014 02:38PM
I am self employed and can barely afford the premium right now. Already planning on looking for a part-time second job to pay for the increased insurance. I voted for Obama in 2012 plus 2012 and won't be voting for the Dumbocrats in November!
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Propeep
()
Date: September 15, 2014 08:20PM
Oh yeah, so what are they going to do about all the folks working in the restaurant industry making $3.00 to 5.00/hr for the newly mandated "full time but actually part time work" dispensation whose monthly income does not meet the monthly living costs much less tht of their possible Obamacare insurance? Having a full time job now with some savings in the bank means the grubber-mint won't subsidize them.
I have a couple of roommates who make the cost of their rent and food each month and there is enough left over for gas to get to work, that is, when they have jobs at all. Don't tell me the grubber-mint is going to send them to jail because they are working, don't qualify for a hand-me-down subsidies, and don't get insurance from their jobs because they don't work for a beltway bandit. And on the basis of personal choice and freedom they are choosing to refuse grubber-mint welfare to take up the slack. They haven't had a job ever with work offered healthcare, they don't have it now, and they have no intention of getting it in the future unless they get a job that gives it to them.
You should read the list of Obamacare exceptions/exemptions to the new orders.
" A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions.
The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.
The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance. An insurance pool skewed toward older, comparatively unhealthy people is likely to result in premiums rising.
Under the Affordable Care Act, the fine for not purchasing health insurance is either $95 per adult or 1 percent of family income, whichever is greater. That amount is set to increase to $695 per adult or 2.5 percent of family income in 2016, with a total family penalty capped at $2,085.
The Act provided exemptions to the penalty for certain groups, such as illegal immigrants and members of certain Native American tribes or religious sects. The Obama administration has since added exemptions for hardships like domestic violence, property damage suffered in a fire or flood, or having a health plan canceled when ObamaCare came into effect this past October 1. One exemption, written as being for people who "experienced another hardship acquiring health insurance" does not require documentation.
Residents of 21 states who have opted not to expand their Medicaid program under the health law may also be exempt from the penalty. The Journal reports that more than 4 million Americans who receive subsidies through the federal ObamaCare exchange could qualify for hardship waivers if the subsidies are struck down in court.
The Affordable Care Act was narrowly upheld by the Supreme Court in June 2012 in a ruling based in part on acceptance of the administration's argument that the law's individual mandate was not a tax. Republicans have argued that the Obama administration has undermined its own argument by issuing so many exemptions and should scrap the mandate completely.
The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services told the Journal that approximately 77,000 individuals and families have requested an exemption as of this past April. However, that number is expected to rise because many exemption requests can only be claimed on tax returns filed in 2015.
The Obama administration has given people whose insurance plans were canceled because they did not meet ObamaCare's minimum coverage requirements an exemption that runs until October 2016. They are also allowed to buy a minimum amount of coverage originally available to people under 30.
Click for more from The Wall Street Journal.
I have a couple of roommates who make the cost of their rent and food each month and there is enough left over for gas to get to work, that is, when they have jobs at all. Don't tell me the grubber-mint is going to send them to jail because they are working, don't qualify for a hand-me-down subsidies, and don't get insurance from their jobs because they don't work for a beltway bandit. And on the basis of personal choice and freedom they are choosing to refuse grubber-mint welfare to take up the slack. They haven't had a job ever with work offered healthcare, they don't have it now, and they have no intention of getting it in the future unless they get a job that gives it to them.
You should read the list of Obamacare exceptions/exemptions to the new orders.
" A new congressional report has estimated that more than 25 million Americans without health insurance will not be made to pay a penalty in 2016 due to an exploding number of ObamaCare exemptions.
The Wall Street Journal, citing an analysis by the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, reported that the number of people expected to pay the fine in 2016 has dwindled to four million people from the report's previous projection of six million. Approximately 30 million Americans are believed to be without health insurance.
The latest report is likely to spark fresh concerns among insurers, who have maintained that the number of exemptions to the law's individual mandate are resulting in fewer young, healthy people signing up for health insurance. An insurance pool skewed toward older, comparatively unhealthy people is likely to result in premiums rising.
Under the Affordable Care Act, the fine for not purchasing health insurance is either $95 per adult or 1 percent of family income, whichever is greater. That amount is set to increase to $695 per adult or 2.5 percent of family income in 2016, with a total family penalty capped at $2,085.
The Act provided exemptions to the penalty for certain groups, such as illegal immigrants and members of certain Native American tribes or religious sects. The Obama administration has since added exemptions for hardships like domestic violence, property damage suffered in a fire or flood, or having a health plan canceled when ObamaCare came into effect this past October 1. One exemption, written as being for people who "experienced another hardship acquiring health insurance" does not require documentation.
Residents of 21 states who have opted not to expand their Medicaid program under the health law may also be exempt from the penalty. The Journal reports that more than 4 million Americans who receive subsidies through the federal ObamaCare exchange could qualify for hardship waivers if the subsidies are struck down in court.
The Affordable Care Act was narrowly upheld by the Supreme Court in June 2012 in a ruling based in part on acceptance of the administration's argument that the law's individual mandate was not a tax. Republicans have argued that the Obama administration has undermined its own argument by issuing so many exemptions and should scrap the mandate completely.
The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services told the Journal that approximately 77,000 individuals and families have requested an exemption as of this past April. However, that number is expected to rise because many exemption requests can only be claimed on tax returns filed in 2015.
The Obama administration has given people whose insurance plans were canceled because they did not meet ObamaCare's minimum coverage requirements an exemption that runs until October 2016. They are also allowed to buy a minimum amount of coverage originally available to people under 30.
Click for more from The Wall Street Journal.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
Sect of Labor
()
Date: September 15, 2014 08:59PM
Propeep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh yeah, so what are they going to do about all
> the folks working in the restaurant industry
> making $3.00 to 5.00/hr...
The federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. For tipped employees, of course, it's just $2.13 an hour, but if that plus tips doesn't average out to the minimum wage per hour, the house has to make up the difference.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh yeah, so what are they going to do about all
> the folks working in the restaurant industry
> making $3.00 to 5.00/hr...
The federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. For tipped employees, of course, it's just $2.13 an hour, but if that plus tips doesn't average out to the minimum wage per hour, the house has to make up the difference.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
moron
()
Date: September 16, 2014 03:01AM
Greybeard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm one of them Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I got the email this morning - was paying
> > $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> > starting January my premium will be
> $1,600/month
> > with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
>
> Because, you know, health insurance plan rates
> never changed before Obamacare.
Are you, you know, like a fucking idiot, or just pretending to be one?
best guess: fucking idiot
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm one of them Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I got the email this morning - was paying
> > $600/month premium with a $3,000 deductible and
> > starting January my premium will be
> $1,600/month
> > with a $6,000 deductible. WTF!
>
> Because, you know, health insurance plan rates
> never changed before Obamacare.
Are you, you know, like a fucking idiot, or just pretending to be one?
best guess: fucking idiot
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
KGu4P
()
Date: September 16, 2014 02:00PM
yea and 150,000 of those are located in Detroit
please - fuck off with your "you trust us" crap
no one beleives a fucking word your saying
please - fuck off with your "you trust us" crap
no one beleives a fucking word your saying
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
fuck obamacare
()
Date: September 17, 2014 02:30AM
Truth is:
Thanks to Obama, who said, "If you like your plan, you'll keep your plan," I lost my healthcare.
I had an individual plan - an excellent plan with low deductibles and an affordable monthly premium, that allowed me to choose from an wide network of nationwide doctors and hospitals, along with out-of-network coverage @ 70/30.
In early October 2013, my plan was cancelled, thanks to the lying asshole in the white house, and every fucking asshole who voted for him.
End of story.
Thanks to Obama, who said, "If you like your plan, you'll keep your plan," I lost my healthcare.
I had an individual plan - an excellent plan with low deductibles and an affordable monthly premium, that allowed me to choose from an wide network of nationwide doctors and hospitals, along with out-of-network coverage @ 70/30.
In early October 2013, my plan was cancelled, thanks to the lying asshole in the white house, and every fucking asshole who voted for him.
End of story.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
suck it up or leave it
()
Date: October 01, 2014 03:30AM
Me too. I plan to take my citizenship elsewhere. Then Congress can pay for it ALL out of their own royal pockets after they get voted out of office and have to retire. Once all the corporations leave and what is left of the middle class leaves, let's see the buggars squeeze the blood out of turnips who who are left and who have nothing to give and nothing for them to forcefully take!!!!!!
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
loopholes
()
Date: October 01, 2014 07:15AM
suck it up or leave it Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Me too. I plan to take my citizenship elsewhere.
> Then Congress can pay for it ALL out of their own
> royal pockets after they get voted out of office
> and have to retire. Once all the corporations
> leave and what is left of the middle class leaves,
> let's see the buggars squeeze the blood out of
> turnips who who are left and who have nothing to
> give and nothing for them to forcefully take!!!!!!
Well first - good riddens. Second, the corporations are all gone already. Even though after loopholes we have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the developed world the aholes are all off shore now. So get your lowinformation pea brain self out of here.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Me too. I plan to take my citizenship elsewhere.
> Then Congress can pay for it ALL out of their own
> royal pockets after they get voted out of office
> and have to retire. Once all the corporations
> leave and what is left of the middle class leaves,
> let's see the buggars squeeze the blood out of
> turnips who who are left and who have nothing to
> give and nothing for them to forcefully take!!!!!!
Well first - good riddens. Second, the corporations are all gone already. Even though after loopholes we have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the developed world the aholes are all off shore now. So get your lowinformation pea brain self out of here.
Re: Obamacare To Cancel Health Plans For 250,000 Virginians
Posted by:
12 hours a day
()
Date: October 01, 2014 07:22AM
Sect of Labor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Propeep Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oh yeah, so what are they going to do about all
> > the folks working in the restaurant industry
> > making $3.00 to 5.00/hr...
>
> The federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. For
> tipped employees, of course, it's just $2.13 an
> hour, but if that plus tips doesn't average out to
> the minimum wage per hour, the house has to make
> up the difference.
Wow work 84 hours a week (12 hour days x 7 per week), every day, every week of the year and earn $31,668 per year ($609 per week)! Awesome. Of course if you have kids you could not possibly care for them if you are working from 7am-7pm 7 days a week so you would need to pay about half of your wages just to have them watched.
So you work for minimum 12 hours a day 365 days a year without a paid vacation and you have $300 bucks a week to pay rent/food/medical insurance/medical costs/clothes/insurance/transportation/dental.
That folks is the American dream if you work 12 hours a day every day no breaks, no benefits. Oh and the people that do this are moochers and lazy...
-------------------------------------------------------
> Propeep Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oh yeah, so what are they going to do about all
> > the folks working in the restaurant industry
> > making $3.00 to 5.00/hr...
>
> The federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. For
> tipped employees, of course, it's just $2.13 an
> hour, but if that plus tips doesn't average out to
> the minimum wage per hour, the house has to make
> up the difference.
Wow work 84 hours a week (12 hour days x 7 per week), every day, every week of the year and earn $31,668 per year ($609 per week)! Awesome. Of course if you have kids you could not possibly care for them if you are working from 7am-7pm 7 days a week so you would need to pay about half of your wages just to have them watched.
So you work for minimum 12 hours a day 365 days a year without a paid vacation and you have $300 bucks a week to pay rent/food/medical insurance/medical costs/clothes/insurance/transportation/dental.
That folks is the American dream if you work 12 hours a day every day no breaks, no benefits. Oh and the people that do this are moochers and lazy...