Anyone have any opinions or stories, positive or negative, just not indifferent, which would likely be boring.

I've heard the teachers hate them because they have to teach to the test, rather than fuck around all day on touchy feeling shit. That's just what I've heard.

^ Have you ever had any first hand experience (like taking one or teaching to one)?

hearsay no good Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ Have you ever had any first hand experience
> (like taking one or teaching to one)?


Fairfax High School grad class of 2010. I took them and they are easy. For Example, in my biology class everyone passed the sol but students failed the class. I am not sure why some schools have such low sol scores . Fairfax High always has above 70% in all the classes.

Students who pass the SOL, but fail the class are students who are fairly bright (average and above) and can read at a decent level (above 6th grade level for a high school test unless it's the English test). It doesn't take genius to pass an SOL since a passing score generally means 50% correct. The SOL should not be the bar for passing the class since the standard for passing the SOL is low (IMO). This student may be one who has missed a lot of days and/or assignments (generally just immature and/or lazy). I don't mean to be sexist, but these are generally boys who don't take school too seriously. The kid is probably looking for a D in the class (or hoping for that).

Now for students who don't pass the SOL, but pass the class. This means the student probably comes to class and tries, but has a reading (learning disability) or second language issue. The teacher is considering effort in the grade. The student may be getting some accomodations when taking the SOL, but it just isn't enough. These tend to be some sad cases. These cases make the teacher feel very bad about the SOL process because everyone has tried but the student can't seem to pass.

Passing SOLs on a consistent basis means you are good at reading and taking the test (thinking through and eliminating illogical answers) and that you have a rudimentary knowledge of the course (it can be pretty cursory). Passing the SOL at the advanced level means you actually listened in class and you cared about what you were studying. It also means that SOL tests and all the studying regimen is pretty much a waste of time for you.

The SOLs are a waste of time for the highest group, the LD and SpEd group, the ESOL group and many upper average ability groups of students. It might benefit 10-20% of the students in FCPS (might). Teacher made tests would probably end up being better as the student is more motivated to pass the class than to do well on the SOL. If class standards are high, there is no need for an SOL.

Dr. Dale once wanted to give the SOLs in December and let students who passed move on to higher levels in the classes. It would not surprise me if over 50% of students passed in December. At some schools that number may approach 90%. I work in a situation where we have actually done that and many of the students passed the tests. On the other hand, I have watched as students fail over and over as well. Those students have some major issues and it is cruel to torture those kids. All of the retesting makes them anxious and makes them feel bad and many just give up. It would be so much better if we could educate kids in ways that make sense for them as individuals. Someday when we know more about the human brain we will no doubt look back and think about how barbaric these tests were.

"On the other hand, I have watched as students fail over and over as well."


They will end up being the same as the no skill fry cooks demanding that minimum wage be nearly doubled to $15 an hour simply because they demand it.

^ It's not that simple. Some of those kids end up doing construction work or mechanical work that pays a lot more than minimum wage.

Of course some of them end up in our finer extended stay state facilities. It really depends more on family support. If they have it, they have social/emotional stability and that helps them to move on. If they don't have it, they go to the dark side.

We also serve kids with mental illnesses/emotional disturbances and that is a whole other discussion. The SOLs just don't seem awfully important in some situations.

Also, do you work for minimum wage?

I am stunned that so many students find SOL's a challenge, or that teachers have to spend so much time teaching to the test. I think this is the case because of my upbringing in a small suburb of a northern city. Virtually everyone read and had solid math skills (the school's average ACT today is 27, as it was in my day). I am not really connected to the vast demographic changes facing our schools, and in particular, a really changed IQ and academic work ethic profile over what I experienced in the 70's. I am sympathetic to the teachers, who frankly have to put up with the changed demographics in silence in a politically correct environment.

no easy answer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Students who pass the SOL, but fail the class are
> students who are fairly bright (average and above)
> and can read at a decent level (above 6th grade
> level for a high school test unless it's the
> English test). It doesn't take genius to pass an
> SOL since a passing score generally means 50%
> correct. The SOL should not be the bar for
> passing the class since the standard for passing
> the SOL is low (IMO). This student may be one who
> has missed a lot of days and/or assignments
> (generally just immature and/or lazy). I don't
> mean to be sexist, but these are generally boys
> who don't take school too seriously. The kid is
> probably looking for a D in the class (or hoping
> for that).
>
> Now for students who don't pass the SOL, but pass
> the class. This means the student probably comes
> to class and tries, but has a reading (learning
> disability) or second language issue. The teacher
> is considering effort in the grade. The student
> may be getting some accomodations when taking the
> SOL, but it just isn't enough. These tend to be
> some sad cases. These cases make the teacher feel
> very bad about the SOL process because everyone
> has tried but the student can't seem to pass.
>
> Passing SOLs on a consistent basis means you are
> good at reading and taking the test (thinking
> through and eliminating illogical answers) and
> that you have a rudimentary knowledge of the
> course (it can be pretty cursory). Passing the
> SOL at the advanced level means you actually
> listened in class and you cared about what you
> were studying. It also means that SOL tests and
> all the studying regimen is pretty much a waste of
> time for you.
>
> The SOLs are a waste of time for the highest
> group, the LD and SpEd group, the ESOL group and
> many upper average ability groups of students. It
> might benefit 10-20% of the students in FCPS
> (might). Teacher made tests would probably end up
> being better as the student is more motivated to
> pass the class than to do well on the SOL. If
> class standards are high, there is no need for an
> SOL.
>
> Dr. Dale once wanted to give the SOLs in December
> and let students who passed move on to higher
> levels in the classes. It would not surprise me
> if over 50% of students passed in December. At
> some schools that number may approach 90%. I work
> in a situation where we have actually done that
> and many of the students passed the tests. On the
> other hand, I have watched as students fail over
> and over as well. Those students have some major
> issues and it is cruel to torture those kids. All
> of the retesting makes them anxious and makes them
> feel bad and many just give up. It would be so
> much better if we could educate kids in ways that
> make sense for them as individuals. Someday when
> we know more about the human brain we will no
> doubt look back and think about how barbaric these
> tests were.


Excellent post. ((applause))