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Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: Phil Spencer ()
Date: August 06, 2014 03:19PM

Can anyone tell me how to get a student OUT of an AP course? It seems the all-to-powerful school counselor has her heels dug in on making our student take a course he is not ready for so that the schools ratings go up.

Who has the final say? The parents or the school? Seems it SHOULD be the parents.

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: Well... ()
Date: August 06, 2014 03:25PM

I would think the student has the final say.

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: skilehg ()
Date: August 06, 2014 06:08PM

This is probably a little about staffing, and more about setting an example - they don't want parents changing their mind re classes (after initial registration).
School is not at full staff this time of year. Maybe they have to get the head of guidance's ok, and of course they don't want to be bothered since it's summer.

I would suggest you quietly go in to see the principal.

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: hAIg23 ()
Date: August 06, 2014 09:41PM

If your idiot kid isn't ready for an AP class, then why did he sign up for it to begin with? Didn't you discuss it with him? Most schools won't allow schedule changes after the end of the school year because they HIRE based on what the needs of the kids are who sign up for classes. Another entitled FCPS parent thinking the rules don't apply to them.

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: tmdjp ()
Date: August 07, 2014 12:45AM

How did he end up in an AP class that you didn't want him to take? Did he sign up for it and change his mind? Was he placed in it without your approval?

Years ago I recommended one of my 8th grade students for a semester of extra math assistance. Her grades were fine, but I was required to submit a certain number of names so I chose students who were average students who might just need a little push in order to pass the 8th grade math SOL. Mom was okay with it. But after looking at her schedule, the school said my student would have to come out of band in order to take the class (we thought it was going to be a different elective that she didn't mind missing out on). Well, the girl LOVED band and was really good at it. So the mom rescinded her permission for the class. They REFUSED to take her out of it. Did the same thing you're talking about. Dug in their heels because all they cared about was their scores. As much as they say they always "do what's best for the student," it's actually them doing what's best for the school's scores.

The fact of the matter (in my situation) is that the 8th grade math SOL counts for nothing. It's not a barrier test. It doesn't determine whether or not you move on to the next grade. It doesn't impact your high school diploma. It. Means. Nothing. All it is is a way for schools to kowtow to the bullshit demands of No Child Left Behind. So, ultimately, the parent decided she'd rather have her child remain in a class that she enjoyed rather than spend her time sitting in a class whose sole purpose was to prepare her to pass a standardized test that held no meaning or purpose for the child taking it. She was vetoed.

Good luck.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Raise a fuss until they make the change.

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: Jimmie Neutron ()
Date: August 07, 2014 07:43AM

tmdjp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How did he end up in an AP class that you didn't
> want him to take? Did he sign up for it and
> change his mind? Was he placed in it without your
> approval?
>
> Years ago I recommended one of my 8th grade
> students for a semester of extra math assistance.
> Her grades were fine, but I was required to submit
> a certain number of names so I chose students who
> were average students who might just need a little
> push in order to pass the 8th grade math SOL. Mom
> was okay with it. But after looking at her
> schedule, the school said my student would have to
> come out of band in order to take the class (we
> thought it was going to be a different elective
> that she didn't mind missing out on). Well, the
> girl LOVED band and was really good at it. So the
> mom rescinded her permission for the class. They
> REFUSED to take her out of it. Did the same thing
> you're talking about. Dug in their heels because
> all they cared about was their scores. As much as
> they say they always "do what's best for the
> student," it's actually them doing what's best for
> the school's scores.
>
> The fact of the matter (in my situation) is that
> the 8th grade math SOL counts for nothing. It's
> not a barrier test. It doesn't determine whether
> or not you move on to the next grade. It doesn't
> impact your high school diploma. It. Means.
> Nothing. All it is is a way for schools to kowtow
> to the bullshit demands of No Child Left Behind.
> So, ultimately, the parent decided she'd rather
> have her child remain in a class that she enjoyed
> rather than spend her time sitting in a class
> whose sole purpose was to prepare her to pass a
> standardized test that held no meaning or purpose
> for the child taking it. She was vetoed.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Raise a fuss until
> they make the change.

This is a perfect example of how SOLs are the neutron bomb of education. They destroyed quality instruction but left the buildings standing.

I've seen the results in the schools. Parents have no idea how they drive teaching and policy. Education in FCPS has become very rote. Teachers are routinely required to have students complete deadly dull handouts and work packets just because the material will potentially be on an SOL exam.

It will be very helpful if parents would talk to their students about what they are doing in school and try to see what they are doing in class.

Why are tests that tell us nothing about the students driving curriculum and educational practices?

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: amen i say ()
Date: August 07, 2014 09:27AM

tmdjp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How did he end up in an AP class that you didn't
> want him to take? Did he sign up for it and
> change his mind? Was he placed in it without your
> approval?
>
> Years ago I recommended one of my 8th grade
> students for a semester of extra math assistance.
> Her grades were fine, but I was required to submit
> a certain number of names so I chose students who
> were average students who might just need a little
> push in order to pass the 8th grade math SOL. Mom
> was okay with it. But after looking at her
> schedule, the school said my student would have to
> come out of band in order to take the class (we
> thought it was going to be a different elective
> that she didn't mind missing out on). Well, the
> girl LOVED band and was really good at it. So the
> mom rescinded her permission for the class. They
> REFUSED to take her out of it. Did the same thing
> you're talking about. Dug in their heels because
> all they cared about was their scores. As much as
> they say they always "do what's best for the
> student," it's actually them doing what's best for
> the school's scores.
>
> The fact of the matter (in my situation) is that
> the 8th grade math SOL counts for nothing. It's
> not a barrier test. It doesn't determine whether
> or not you move on to the next grade. It doesn't
> impact your high school diploma. It. Means.
> Nothing. All it is is a way for schools to kowtow
> to the bullshit demands of No Child Left Behind.
> So, ultimately, the parent decided she'd rather
> have her child remain in a class that she enjoyed
> rather than spend her time sitting in a class
> whose sole purpose was to prepare her to pass a
> standardized test that held no meaning or purpose
> for the child taking it. She was vetoed.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Raise a fuss until
> they make the change.


You did a really nice job with this.

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: Go up the chain of command ()
Date: August 07, 2014 09:46AM

Guidance counselors report to the director of student services, who is paid to work 12 months per year. Start with the director of student services.

If that person isn't helpful, move up the chain to the principal. Principals also are paid on 12 month contracts.

If the principal isn't helpful, contact the regional office assistant superintendent for your high school, and perhaps also the executive principal. And since you don't have much time, you might want to also copy Dr. Garza, your school board member, and the three at large school board members on this email.

Good luck.

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: why we are failing children ()
Date: August 07, 2014 09:56AM

Yes, go over the principal's head if you have to. You know your son better than anybody else and you are responsible for his education (regardless of how important FCPS thinks it is). I had to do this once and it worked. Indeed, you must be a squeaky wheel. It stinks, but that's how it works. There is so much bureaucracy in FCPS that nobody seems to do anything unless the head poobah has approved it. It's a very top down organization. The teachers know what is best, but can't always do it as their hands are tied by all the rules and the "chain of command".

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: why we are failing children ()
Date: August 07, 2014 10:00AM

And, by the way, your son is very lucky to have you as his parent. Not every child has a parent who is proactive and those children are at a major disadvantage in the system.

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: Bill.N. ()
Date: August 07, 2014 01:53PM

You sit down with your kid, look over the teacher recommendations and make the course selection. Sometimes your kid gets the classes selected. Sometimes not. If your kid is attending a school that is trying to bump up its numbers in advanced classes, they may assign the kid to an advanced class if the teacher recommended it, even if you did not select it. If your kid is attending a school where the advanced classes are overcrowded, they may not assign the kid to the advanced class, even if the kid got As at the prior level.

I've been through this a couple of times OP, but fortunately with a reasonable guidance counselor. With an obstinate one it may be harder. I did learn it helped to be flexible when I approached them. You may have to be willing to make other changes to the child's schedule to get things switched. You also need to decide whether the alternative is worth it. Giving up the AP class might mean settling for a regular class, as an honors alternative might not fit in the schedule. Or giving up the AP class might mean switching out of a desired elective, because the alternative class might be taught at that time period.

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: Xcyjw ()
Date: August 08, 2014 11:46PM

amen i say Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tmdjp Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How did he end up in an AP class that you
> didn't
> > want him to take? Did he sign up for it and
> > change his mind? Was he placed in it without
> your
> > approval?
> >
> > Years ago I recommended one of my 8th grade
> > students for a semester of extra math
> assistance.
> > Her grades were fine, but I was required to
> submit
> > a certain number of names so I chose students
> who
> > were average students who might just need a
> little
> > push in order to pass the 8th grade math SOL.
> Mom
> > was okay with it. But after looking at her
> > schedule, the school said my student would have
> to
> > come out of band in order to take the class (we
> > thought it was going to be a different elective
> > that she didn't mind missing out on). Well,
> the
> > girl LOVED band and was really good at it. So
> the
> > mom rescinded her permission for the class.
> They
> > REFUSED to take her out of it. Did the same
> thing
> > you're talking about. Dug in their heels
> because
> > all they cared about was their scores. As much
> as
> > they say they always "do what's best for the
> > student," it's actually them doing what's best
> for
> > the school's scores.
> >
> > The fact of the matter (in my situation) is
> that
> > the 8th grade math SOL counts for nothing.
> It's
> > not a barrier test. It doesn't determine
> whether
> > or not you move on to the next grade. It
> doesn't
> > impact your high school diploma. It. Means.
> > Nothing. All it is is a way for schools to
> kowtow
> > to the bullshit demands of No Child Left Behind.
>
> > So, ultimately, the parent decided she'd rather
> > have her child remain in a class that she
> enjoyed
> > rather than spend her time sitting in a class
> > whose sole purpose was to prepare her to pass a
> > standardized test that held no meaning or
> purpose
> > for the child taking it. She was vetoed.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Squeaky wheel gets the grease. Raise a fuss
> until
> > they make the change.
>
>
> You did a really nice job with this.

I ended up writing an apology email to the parent. I felt so bad for putting her in that predicament with my recommendation. I tried to get the school to change see mom's viewpoint but they wouldn't budge. Mom wasn't super aggressive (something schools will most definitely take advantage of) so her daughter ended up having to take the remediation class.

Since that incident, I no longer recommend kids for anything until I review their schedules first and make sure it doesn't negatively impact them in other ways. It's tedious but necessary.

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: SCHOOL Counselor ()
Date: August 09, 2014 09:27AM

Has anyone considered the fact that the Directors of Student Services and Principals are the ones making the rules that no students switch out of courses at this point in the school year!? Of course, it is their policy and the School Counselors have to follow, but as soon as a parent complains high enough, the administration falls like a house of cards... Essentially throwing the School Counslors under the bus for their inflexible policies. It can be incredibly frustrating, as I would prefer a student take a course load they can succeed in, but I am told I can no longer make switches! I agree, go up the administrator chain, but know that it is their policy that you are fighting and we school counselor peons are forced to follow suit!

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Re: Fairfax County Schools AP Program
Posted by: Oh, yeah ()
Date: August 09, 2014 09:44AM

^You just described the whole problem with FCPS in a nutshell. You've got people who are not in the schools (and many of them never have been) trying to run them. Layers. of. those. people. And it goes beyond those people and all the way up to Arne Duncan and the feds micromanaging and trying to solve society's problems by using the schools. It's working really well, right?

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