Streetcar being forced on Arlington residents by out-of-touch leaders
http://www.insidenova.com/opinion/letters_to_editor/letter-streetcar-being-forced-on-arlington-residents-by-out-of/article_b116c1fc-0773-11e4-a6cc-0019bb2963f4.html


Editor: Our family is in complete agreement with all of the statements made by Stephen Carey in regarding the misguided streetcar project [“Ruling Elite Won’t Determine Fate of Streetcar,” Letters July 3].

We are from Pittsburgh and grew up with trolleys providing all transportation in the 1950s and ’60s. It was a reliable form of transportation and covered a wide range of transportation needs throughout the metropolitan area, including city and suburbs, but it was removed in the 1970s and replaced by buses, due to several factors.





The right-of-way for the trolleys was costly to implement and maintain; with tracks going down the center of a road, it required boarding platforms in the street; traffic behind the trolleys was problematic, with travel down the center of a street and frequent stops; this trolley system had overhead power that was an eyesore in the congested areas with lots of trackage and added one more point of failure when storms wreaked havoc and brought down the wires.

We find it incredible that anyone would consider bringing this type of transportation system to Arlington when it is so obvious that buses serve the needs just as well, if not better.

The infrastructure for buses already is in place. With the exception of adding additional vehicles, the costs are predictable and reasonable.

With a new trolley system, we are asking for trouble in the form of unexpected and runaway costs, and considerable disruption to the Columbia Pike corridor during construction.

This is a bad idea and we have great difficulty in seeing any benefit whatsoever.

The County Board is attempting to force this project down the pocketbooks of the residents, and we cannot understand why. If the residents do not want a project, and there appears to be more people against this plan than in support, then why waste time and money?

The development in Arlington has become ridiculous with McMansions on tiny lots replacing quaint middle-class homes, old-growth trees being cut down everywhere to make way for high-density development, a complete lack of traffic planning to handle the influx of new vehicles, and a County Board seemingly catering to the whims of every developer while ignoring the very constituency that pays the bills.

Shouldn’t we, the residents, be No. 1? Who is looking out for our interests?

Theresa and Stan King, Arlington

Arlington County ≠ Fairfax County. Good luck with your Trolley issue. Contact us again when it crosses into Fairfax.

When are you ignorant, ungrateful little people going to learn that we know what's best for you?

Now sit down and STFU and write that tax check.

Careful, this is a touchy subject and can start wars. See http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1568388/1569561.html Much blood was spilled, many wounds were licked.

Arlington is for bums and punk bitches.

Fairfax County Resident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Arlington County ≠ Fairfax
> County. Good luck with your Trolley issue.
> Contact us again when it crosses into Fairfax.

They want to expand it into Fairfax County. LOL

Will they expand their million dollar bus stops to Fairfax County too? Certainly that's something the retards on the BoS can get behind. Pay for it with a meals tax.

Fawkers from Pittsburg wanna drive everywhere... take a look at columbia pike during peak hours... tell me how many different iterations of the 16 bus pass you per minute. Bus system is maxed. Master plan had a dedicated light rail system extending thru columbia pike to Skyline. Time to implement.

And Fuck You Motherfucker. Faggit assed!!! thats all.

00 00 00 00 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fawkers from Pittsburg wanna drive everywhere...
> take a look at columbia pike during peak hours...
> tell me how many different iterations of the 16
> bus pass you per minute. Bus system is maxed.
> Master plan had a dedicated light rail system
> extending thru columbia pike to Skyline. Time to
> implement.
>
> And Fuck You Motherfucker. Faggit assed!!! thats
> all.


What Master Plan?

Ruling Libtard Elite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When are you ignorant, ungrateful little people
> going to learn that we know what's best for you?
>
> Now sit down and STFU and write that tax check.

+1000000 After all, it's only taxpayers' money! And the ones that pay taxes are not our constituency anyway! We dems have built a 51% majority consisting of all the leeches on society who are happy to spend others' money.

NOw it's your business, the Feds put up the remaining money to fund this ridiculous project.

Arlington politicians are paying for this new toy with other people's money. So they could care less that it is a complete waste and perhaps even a net negative in terms of traffic. They'll put their names on the McMansion trolley stops and take their grandkids by to show them what they "accomplished" (with other people's hard-earned money).

Want to know why the streetcar will be built no matter what? Follow the money!

I'm listening...

00 00 00 00 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fawkers from Pittsburg wanna drive everywhere...
> take a look at columbia pike during peak hours...
> tell me how many different iterations of the 16
> bus pass you per minute. Bus system is maxed.
> Master plan had a dedicated light rail system
> extending thru columbia pike to Skyline. Time to
> implement.
>
> And Fuck You Motherfucker. Faggit assed!!! thats
> all.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/07/AR2010070704800.html

00 00 00 00 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic
> le/2010/07/07/AR2010070704800.html


Every old mall, office complex, apartment center, and strip mall around here is going to become a 'town center' now. lmao

Do you people really not see the problem with this brilliant master plan?

Editor's Notebook: In rush to report on streetcar, subtleties are left by the wayside
http://www.insidenova.com/blogs/editor-s-notebook-in-rush-to-report-on-streetcar-subtleties/article_f87ac594-09b1-11e4-94f6-0019bb2963f4.html



Color me not terribly surprised that a number of news outlets didn't get it quite right when reporting yesterday on the state government's plan to pump money into the Columbia Pike streetcar project.


One online-news site, citing an Arlington government press release, stated definitively that the state government had committed $65 million more funding to the project. Wrong. Another newspaper's reporting was mostly accurate, but then was undermined by an online headline that suggested the money was on its way.


(Headline-writers don't have an easy job, but they do have the tendency to make reporters crazy by taking necessary short-cuts that can change the meaning of a story before readers even get to the first paragraph.)


Facts are funny things, so let's whip them out: The state government says it will provide "up to" $65 million in additional funding, and gives itself so many outs in the letter to Arlington and Fairfax officials that I wouldn't bank on the money.


Clearly, the McAuliffe administration wants to support the project, but the state government, having given up control of the Columbia Pike right-of-way through Arlington to the local government some years ago, will not have the final say.


As the Sun Gazette long has reported but some others seem not to grasp, Arlington and Fairfax officials are now engaged in a game of "beat-the-clock" (thanks, Wayne Kubicki, for that apt analogy). They need to get a construction contract signed, sealed and delivered before Jan. 1, 2016, when it's possible - don't know if it's likely, but it's possible - that the anti-streetcar side could take control of the Arlington County Board and, in its first action, scrap the project.

The Arlington government is being somewhat, and probably purposely, nebulous about timing, financing and more. Trying to pin down the facts has not been easy.

Bottom line: Friday's action moves the streetcar project one step closer to reality. But unless a construction contract can be approved before the 2015 election season is wrapped up, there's no guarantee the streetcar is going to be built.


Keep your popcorn handy; this show has many more acts to run before the final curtain falls
Attachments:

Streetcar rulz! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Careful, this is a touchy subject and can start
> wars. See
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/156
> 8388/1569561.html Much blood was spilled, many
> wounds were licked.

Right-wing assholes being stoned to death. Good reading! Thanks!

Sharon and Gerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> +1000000 After all, it's only taxpayers' money!
> And the ones that pay taxes are not our
> constituency anyway! We dems have built a 51%
> majority consisting of all the leeches on society
> who are happy to spend others' money.

Babble, babble, babble. How the assholes do prattle on!

follow the leader Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Every old mall, office complex, apartment center,
> and strip mall around here is going to become a
> 'town center' now. lmao Do you people really not
> see the problem with this brilliant master plan?

Why don't you explain it. Maybe you could also explain how dumb people have to be not to realize that there actually is a Master Plan, that the streetcar line already involves both Fairfax and Arlington counties, anbd that there are no million-dollar bus stops. Then there are those who think some bunch of TEA Party Republicans is about to sweep into control of the Arlington County board. Will the dumbness never end here?

I can't see any benefit in having streetcars like this. They will cause more traffic congestion and they don't move very many people around. Geez, they would have been better off building a monorail.

The streetcar is Arlington's issue, not mine. However it does not make much sense.

Streetcar systems worked because they allowed people to easily get from their homes to their jobs to shopping to recreational spots without having to resort to alternative transportation. The Columbia Pike line isn't a streetcar system. It is a stand alone streetcar line. Most of those travelling to, from or along Columbia Pike would need to combine their streetcar travel with some other form of transportation in order to complete their trip. For most it would be more efficient to simply make the entire trip along Columbia Pike using that alternate form of transportation, be it bus or car.

So why is Arlington pushing it? While stand alone streetcar lines are lousy as transportation systems, at the moment they can be good for real estate development. They provide the appearance of being upscale. The problem is that streetcar lines today are the gift that keeps on taking. Arlington County taxpayers are going to pay taxes today to build a system so that they can have the privilege tomorrow of paying taxes to subsidize the operation of the system. (Silver Line fans take note.)

There are places in the DC Metro area where there is sufficient local traffic that a stand alone streetcar line might make sense. Columbia Pike isn't one of them.

No Neanderthals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> follow the leader Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Every old mall, office complex, apartment
> center,
> > and strip mall around here is going to become a
> > 'town center' now. lmao Do you people really
> not
> > see the problem with this brilliant master
> plan?
>
> Why don't you explain it. Maybe you could also
> explain how dumb people have to be not to realize
> that there actually is a Master Plan, that the
> streetcar line already involves both Fairfax and
> Arlington counties, anbd that there are no
> million-dollar bus stops. Then there are those
> who think some bunch of TEA Party Republicans is
> about to sweep into control of the Arlington
> County board. Will the dumbness never end here?

The various Master Plans don't have much if anything to do with the wisdom or economic viability of what's in it. All of the crappy areas and past projects which now have failed also were in the respective Master Plans.

I dind't say anything at all about million dollar bus stops but there is one $1.15 million dollar stop already. The remaining will be about half-a-million-dollar bus stops if you think that sounds much if any better.

HpjLe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't see any benefit in having streetcars like
> this. They will cause more traffic congestion and
> they don't move very many people around. Geez,
> they would have been better off building a
> monorail.


But Portland has one and they're like cool and Progressive They have cool coffee shops and stuff. We want to be cool like Portland.

I think they now call it Portlandia. It's the same tolerant place where a woman just about to open a store and having been welcomed by the neighborhood was ostracized for having personal reservations about gay marriage, even though they did not impact her relations or business with the community at large.

If the streetcar for Columbia Pike is so good, how come Arlington residents were unwilling to fully fund it themselves, instead relying on the state and the feds for the bulk of the funds?

Hell, even electing a R turned I just to show their dissatisfaction.

I mean, it's not like they don't have the money given all of those $1 million bus stops being built.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2014 12:22PM by johnny ringo.

I already had knocked out, mentally at least, four or five stories on a host of topics from yesterday afternoon’s Arlington County Board capital work session even before the Fabulous Five of the board even turned their attention to the Columbia Pike streetcar.

With those articles in the bag – and a bunch will be posted today – it seemed unnecessary to sit through what appeared likely to be a long streetcar discussion where matters would continue to be decided in predictable 3-2 votes.

Turns out, according to Washington Post coverage, I was right: The County Board members sparred, but nothing changed. So I think my focus on other stories from the meeting will prove the wiser investment in terms of coverage.

I can afford streetcars. Keeps the rest of you gooberassholes off the road.

johnny ringo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think they now call it Portlandia. It's the same
> tolerant place where a woman just about to open a
> store and having been welcomed by the neighborhood
> was ostracized for having personal reservations
> about gay marriage, even though they did not
> impact her relations or business with the
> community at large.

Either conform to the "tolerant" liberal viewpoint or DIE!

"The Arlington government is being somewhat, and probably purposely, nebulous about timing, financing and more. Trying to pin down the facts has not been easy."

This is how politicians operate when spending taxpayer money does more to aggrandize themselves than to benefit the taxpayer. Doesn't it seem like officeholders would always be upfront if they are working for their constituents.

This can be seen locally and nationally. How often does the Obama administration announce policies, regulations, and initiatives at 4:15 on Friday afternoons, especially on Fridays before holiday weekends.

It's not partisan to ask why one would support politicians who operate in this manner.

New funding plan for Columbia Pike streetcar relies more on commercial surtax
http://www.insidenova.com/news/arlington/new-funding-plan-for-columbia-pike-streetcar-relies-more-on/article_ee1c304a-0e8b-11e4-a837-0019bb2963f4.html


The Arlington business community will be on the hook for $10 million more than previously announced under the new funding plan for the Columbia Pike streeetcar, unveiled by County Manager Barbara Donnellan at a July 17 work session.

Funding from a 12.5-percent surcharge on taxes levied on commercial property would account for $69.8 million of Arlington’s share of the cost of the controversial streetcar project, or 26 percent of the local cost, under the new plan. That compares to a previous estimate of $59.8 million, or 21 percent of the project cost, in a scenario that included the prospect of federal funding.

In a he-probably-regretted-it-the-moment-it-came-out-of-his-mouth moment, county transportation chief Dennis Leach referred to the $10 million change as simply a “slight increase.” Taking more funds from the commercial-surcharge pot of gold gives opponents of the streetcar project another line of attack against supporters, who say the funds could be better spent elsewhere.

Changing the amount coming from the real estate surcharge won’t affect the bills of commercial-property owners, as jurisdictions in Northern Virginia are required to levy the extra tax under terms of the 2013 transportation deal worked out in Richmond. Arlington had imposed it for several years before that.

But allocating $69.8 million of those funds, rather than $59.8 million, to the streetcar project means there will be $10 million that won’t go to other projects.

Exactly what projects might get stiffed remains an open question. County Board members Libby Garvey and John Vihstadt, who oppose the streetcar, have attempted to get county staff to list projects that could be funded by funds that would be freed up if the streetcar project were scrapped.

“Arlingtonians deserve answers,” Vihstadt said. “It is essential for both elected officials and the public to understand exactly what we may be delaying or sacrificing – in whole or in part – by choosing to fund the streetcar.”

But county officials in June said providing such answers would require “significant additional analysis” that would only be undertaken if a majority of the five County Board members directed staff to do it.

At first blush, the 12.5-percent surcharge on commercial property, which was authorized and then mandated by the General Assembly, appears to fly in the face of the state constitution, which requires that commercial and residential property be assessed at similar rates.

But when the issue went to the Virginia Supreme Court, the justices ruled that as long as the funding generated was dedicated to a specific purpose and within a specific location, in this case transportation and Northern Virginia, then the surcharge was allowable.

Both state and local business organizations generally have been supportive of the surcharge, so long as the funding goes toward a range of transportation improvements that includes both roads and transit.

A rendering from the Arlington County government shows how the Columbia Pike streetcar system might look at the intersection of Columbia Pike and South George Mason Drive.
Attachments:

Hey, let's just take a little more money from local business people to pay for our McMansion trolley stops that we can put our name on. Hey, let's just impose a little meals tax, you'll hardly notice. Hey, TSA airline ticket tax just doubled today, it's only another $5 per flight, which of course is only a measly $35 billion extra out of the pocket of flyers over the next decade. Hey, it will only cost the energy industry $50 billion over a decade for new regulations. Hey, you will pay none . . . I mean you will pay thousands more per year for health plans but they meet our new standards. Hey, we need $3.7 billion, right now, to clean up the immigration crisis that we created by telling people we would not send their children home. Hey, localities you have to pick up the education, healthcare, food subsidy tabs for the illegal immigrants we are shipping to your communities.

How much evidence do voters need to understand that liberals will tax and regulate anything and at any price if voters keep putting them in office? Fairfax would be facing a meals tax that would take $1 billion out of their pockets over the next decade if local Democrats thought they could get away with it. And they will be facing it in the future if they think they can get away with it.

Turf!

Trolleys!

Tara (Brach)!

Three things tax money are being wasted on.

Will the streetcar get million dollar stops just like the Arlington bus stops?

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The streetcar is Arlington's issue, not mine.
> However it does not make much sense.
>
> Streetcar systems worked because they allowed
> people to easily get from their homes to their
> jobs to shopping to recreational spots without
> having to resort to alternative transportation.
> The Columbia Pike line isn't a streetcar system.
> It is a stand alone streetcar line. Most of those
> travelling to, from or along Columbia Pike would
> need to combine their streetcar travel with some
> other form of transportation in order to complete
> their trip. For most it would be more efficient
> to simply make the entire trip along Columbia Pike
> using that alternate form of transportation, be it
> bus or car.
>
> So why is Arlington pushing it? While stand alone
> streetcar lines are lousy as transportation
> systems, at the moment they can be good for real
> estate development. They provide the appearance
> of being upscale. The problem is that streetcar
> lines today are the gift that keeps on taking.
> Arlington County taxpayers are going to pay taxes
> today to build a system so that they can have the
> privilege tomorrow of paying taxes to subsidize
> the operation of the system. (Silver Line fans
> take note.)
>
> There are places in the DC Metro area where there
> is sufficient local traffic that a stand alone
> streetcar line might make sense. Columbia Pike
> isn't one of them.

Your a waste-of-time asshole, Bill. Try talking about something you understand for a change. Obviously, urban transportation issues DO NOT fall into that category.

A Streetcar Named Expensive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dind't say anything at all about million dollar
> bus stops but there is one $1.15 million dollar
> stop already. The remaining will be about
> half-a-million-dollar bus stops if you think that
> sounds much if any better.

You're an imbecile. A contract to build 24 new bus stops for $21 million was let. The prototype station had a variety of issues and the contract was reworked to provide modular, scalable stations for about $12 million. That's about as much per station as what it costs to put in a traffic light. Ignorant dumbfuck.

So you're saying $800,000 per bus stop is okay? Seems a little outrageous considering all you need is a sign post with the bus route numbers and schedules, and maybe a couple signs saying "No Parking - Bus Zone".

Portland Envy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But Portland has one and they're like cool and
> Progressive They have cool coffee shops and
> stuff. We want to be cool like Portland.

It's Seattle that has a monorail. It was built for the 1962 World's Fair. It is a toy system that runs over 1-mile of track. Disney has much larger systems. Portland on the other hand has a very successful light-rail system. Four lines, 52 miles, 87 stations. It cost about $3 billion to build and has been operating since 1986. People who are simply afraid of big numbers will no doubt find the cost astronomical. That's because they are pathetic Neanderthal dumbfucks.

johnny ringo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think they now call it Portlandia. It's the same
> tolerant place where a woman just about to open a
> store and having been welcomed by the neighborhood
> was ostracized for having personal reservations
> about gay marriage, even though they did not
> impact her relations or business with the
> community at large.

Hey...nobody likes assholes.

johnny ringo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the streetcar for Columbia Pike is so good, how
> come Arlington residents were unwilling to fully
> fund it themselves, instead relying on the state
> and the feds for the bulk of the funds?

God, but you're stupid!

Asshole Report #14-0071 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can afford streetcars. Keeps the rest of you
> gooberassholes off the road.

Hmmm. You don't sound like the real Asshole Report #14-0071 at all. I bet you're one of those low-life scum-suckers who gets the crap beat out of him on the facts and has to turn to neanderthal slander tactics to soothe the extreme butthurt. What a pathetic fucking piece-of-shit LOSER!

Friday News Dumps Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not partisan to ask why one would support
> politicians who operate in this manner.

All politicians operate in this manner. Had you not noticed?

No Neanderthals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> johnny ringo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If the streetcar for Columbia Pike is so good,
> how
> > come Arlington residents were unwilling to
> fully
> > fund it themselves, instead relying on the
> state
> > and the feds for the bulk of the funds?
>
> God, but you're stupid!


It's still a valid question.

How much evidence do we need? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey, let's just take a little more money from
> local business people to pay for our McMansion
> trolley stops that we can put our name on. Hey,
> let's just impose a little meals tax, you'll
> hardly notice. Hey, TSA airline ticket tax just
> doubled today, it's only another $5 per flight,
> which of course is only a measly $35 billion extra
> out of the pocket of flyers over the next decade.
> Hey, it will only cost the energy industry $50
> billion over a decade for new regulations. Hey,
> you will pay none . . . I mean you will pay
> thousands more per year for health plans but they
> meet our new standards. Hey, we need $3.7 billion,
> right now, to clean up the immigration crisis that
> we created by telling people we would not send
> their children home. Hey, localities you have to
> pick up the education, healthcare, food subsidy
> tabs for the illegal immigrants we are shipping to
> your communities.
>
> How much evidence do voters need to understand
> that liberals will tax and regulate anything and
> at any price if voters keep putting them in
> office? Fairfax would be facing a meals tax that
> would take $1 billion out of their pockets over
> the next decade if local Democrats thought they
> could get away with it. And they will be facing it
> in the future if they think they can get away with
> it.

Hopeless. When you elect some dumbo right-wing asshole who guts revenues in favor of tax cuts for the rich while ramping up expenditures for unjustified wars, and who then further undercuts revenues and ramps up expenditures by walking us straight into the worst global economic collapse since the Great Depression, there is going to come a day of reckoning and a time to pay the piper. That shit is ALL ON YOU, you worthless fucking Neanderthal. Meanwhile your phony whining over all these alleged new taxes and increases is a pile of pure bullshit -- the fucking stock and trade of worthless goober assfucks. To sum up, it would be only out of unwarranted kindness that someone might refer to you as a despicable lying sack of shit.

Bus commuter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So you're saying $800,000 per bus stop is okay?
> Seems a little outrageous considering all you need
> is a sign post with the bus route numbers and
> schedules, and maybe a couple signs saying "No
> Parking - Bus Zone".

LOL! Is that the way it works where you come from? In that case, go back to 1950's Dogpatch and fuck yourself, you irrelevant goober dumbfuck.

Million Dollar Bus Stop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's still a valid question.

No, it's not you pathetic moron. Public transportation projects are jointly funded across multiple levels of government. Do you think fucking Springfiled paid for the Springfield Interchange modernization? What a fucking turd-brain!

No Neanderthals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Million Dollar Bus Stop Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's still a valid question.
>
> No, it's not you pathetic moron. Public
> transportation projects are jointly funded across
> multiple levels of government. Do you think
> fucking Springfiled paid for the Springfield
> Interchange modernization? What a fucking
> turd-brain!

"No Neanderthals" you undermine your argument when you grunt a response with such phrases as "pathetic moron" and "fucking turd-brain." These are not very evolved ways of responding . . . to Neanderthals.

No Neanderthals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your a waste-of-time asshole, Bill. Try talking
> about something you understand for a change.
> Obviously, urban transportation issues DO NOT fall
> into that category.

That advice would more properly be directed at you. Hurling insults at everyone who disagrees with your opinion is not a sign of an intelligent and informed debater. It is a sign of an ill mannered oaf.

It is interesting that you say I know nothing about urban transportation, yet a few posts later you make the same point I do: "Portland on the other hand has a very successful light-rail SYSTEM (emphasis added). Four lines, 52 miles, 87 stations." San Diego's runs around 50 miles and has over 50 stations. Baltimore's is smaller, but it does connect with the airport. If Arlington was talking about building something like those, it would be one thing. They aren't.

Also while you mention the initial cost of Portland's system, you fail to mention the annual subsidy needed to keep it operating. Every light rail system I am aware of does not cover its operating costs, and requires government subsidies to make up the difference. I believe San Diego's is one of the most efficient, yet it still requires a subsidy of around $1 per rider per trip to make up the shortfall. I recall the last numbers I saw for Pittsburgh's system came to around $5 per trip That ongoing drain limits funds available for other projects in the future.

Light rail is less expensive than a heavy rail commuting system like Metro. That does not mean though that a light rail system is always a wise investment, even in an urban setting.

Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "No Neanderthals" you undermine your argument when
> you grunt a response with such phrases as
> "pathetic moron" and "fucking turd-brain." These
> are not very evolved ways of responding . . . to
> Neanderthals.

These are people who do not respond to logic, fact, or reason. They are fact-deprived creatures of lowly emotion. If you don't whomp them over the head with some sort of fucking stick, they won't realize that you are talking to them.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No Neanderthals Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Your a waste-of-time asshole, Bill. Try
> talking
> > about something you understand for a change.
> > Obviously, urban transportation issues DO NOT
> fall
> > into that category.
>
> That advice would more properly be directed at
> you. Hurling insults at everyone who disagrees
> with your opinion is not a sign of an intelligent
> and informed debater. It is a sign of an ill
> mannered oaf.
>
> It is interesting that you say I know nothing
> about urban transportation, yet a few posts later
> you make the same point I do: "Portland on the
> other hand has a very successful light-rail SYSTEM
> (emphasis added). Four lines, 52 miles, 87
> stations." San Diego's runs around 50 miles and
> has over 50 stations. Baltimore's is smaller, but
> it does connect with the airport. If Arlington
> was talking about building something like those,
> it would be one thing. They aren't.
>
> Also while you mention the initial cost of
> Portland's system, you fail to mention the annual
> subsidy needed to keep it operating. Every light
> rail system I am aware of does not cover its
> operating costs, and requires government subsidies
> to make up the difference. I believe San Diego's
> is one of the most efficient, yet it still
> requires a subsidy of around $1 per rider per trip
> to make up the shortfall. I recall the last
> numbers I saw for Pittsburgh's system came to
> around $5 per trip That ongoing drain limits
> funds available for other projects in the future.
>
> Light rail is less expensive than a heavy rail
> commuting system like Metro. That does not mean
> though that a light rail system is always a wise
> investment, even in an urban setting.


One of the better comments on this thread. And it demonstrates why every one of these light rail projects require government funding for construction and ongoing service. Arlington's is no exception with the feds and the state picking up the bulk of the construction costs.

It's really time to say what it is, a form of welfare for property owners in the Columbia Pike corridor as they will undoubtedly see property values go up and new development projects in place.

That's not saying spurring development in what's essentially become a somewhat run down area is a bad thing. We've seen many cases (though not) of adding a Metro station to an area and getting similar economic multiplier effects.

But lets be honest, it's still a government hand-out.

Public costs, private profits.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That advice would more properly be directed at
> you. Hurling insults at everyone who disagrees
> with your opinion is not a sign of an intelligent
> and informed debater. It is a sign of an ill
> mannered oaf.

Oh, your poor sensibilities. Try speaking from intelligence instead of from the gutter.

> It is interesting that you say I know nothing
> about urban transportation...

Merely stating what you yourself have made obvious.

> ...yet a few posts later you make the same point I do:
> "Portland on the other hand has a very successful
> light-rail SYSTEM (emphasis added).

Portland was claimed by a different dumbfuck to have a monorail system. They don't. They have integrated heavy-rail, light-rail, and streetcar systems. No monorails.

> If Arlington was talking about building something
> like those, it would be one thing. They aren't.

Yes, they are, and it's so far all being done jointly with Fairfax. This is not some one-and-done sort of project. You need to get out of the house much more often.



> Also while you mention the initial cost of
> Portland's system, you fail to mention the annual
> subsidy needed to keep it operating. Every light
> rail system I am aware of does not cover its
> operating costs, and requires government subsidies
> to make up the difference. I believe San Diego's
> is one of the most efficient, yet it still
> requires a subsidy of around $1 per rider per trip
> to make up the shortfall. I recall the last
> numbers I saw for Pittsburgh's system came to
> around $5 per trip That ongoing drain limits
> funds available for other projects in the future.
>
> Light rail is less expensive than a heavy rail
> commuting system like Metro. That does not mean
> though that a light rail system is always a wise
> investment, even in an urban setting.

The User Name may change, but it is still the same. All insults and no facts. When you are prepared to present a well reasoned justification for the Columbia Pike streetcar line, I will be happy to debate with you. Until then you will be ignored like an ill mannered child.

No Neanderthals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "No Neanderthals" you undermine your argument
> when
> > you grunt a response with such phrases as
> > "pathetic moron" and "fucking turd-brain."
> These
> > are not very evolved ways of responding . . .
> to
> > Neanderthals.
>
> These are people who do not respond to logic,
> fact, or reason. They are fact-deprived creatures
> of lowly emotion. If you don't whomp them over
> the head with some sort of fucking stick, they
> won't realize that you are talking to them.

Wait... So those opposed to this are the ones questioning it on the basis of factual cost, efficiency, effects on traffic flow, etc., while those supporting it are doing so on the basis of some unspecified and undemonstrated future development potential based almost entirely around the ambiance of an etraordinarily expensive streetcar project.

Where's the logic and reasoning again? lol

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Also while you mention the initial cost of
> Portland's system, you fail to mention the annual
> subsidy needed to keep it operating. Every light
> rail system I am aware of does not cover its
> operating costs, and requires government subsidies
> to make up the difference.

Clicked to soon. But a person claiming to understand urban transportation systems would be expected to know that the benefits of such systems accrue to a much broader population than simply riders. Business and property owners near transit stations, drivers who will deal with fewer cars on the road, children and the elderly who will have to deal with less poison in the air they breathe. As with many public goods, there is no point of sale at which an appropriate charge for these benefits could be extracted, so it is done via taxation and subsidy. How could you have studied transportation systems at all and not known that?

> Light rail is less expensive than a heavy rail
> commuting system like Metro. That does not mean
> though that a light rail system is always a wise
> investment, even in an urban setting.

As a complete ignoramus in the field, how would you know what sort of systems were most appropriate to any given set of circumstances?

No Neanderthals Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------
>
> Portland was claimed by a different dumbfuck to
> have a monorail system. They don't. They have
> integrated heavy-rail, light-rail, and streetcar
> systems. No monorails.
>
>

No, it wasn't dumbass. In your race to be an asshole you read it wrong.

Tomás el tren Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Public costs, private profits.

The government does not intend to make a profit. If it did, it would charge an arm and a leg for weather forecasts. Instead, it gives them away for free. Governments seek to identify and implement ways and means of advancing constituent interests. That's why we created them to begin with. Try to keep up here.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The User Name may change, but it is still the
> same. All insults and no facts. When you are
> prepared to present a well reasoned justification
> for the Columbia Pike streetcar line, I will be
> happy to debate with you. Until then you will be
> ignored like an ill mannered child.

There are no monorails in Portland. Sorry you couldn't handle that. Transportation systems are a public good. In order for those who participate in the benefits to also participate in the costs, taxation and subsidies will be called for. The Columbia Pike project is not some stand-alone toy train set, but rather one part of a cooperative effort toward design and construction of the regional transportation systems of the future. These are all basic facts that you simply didn't know. Run away and be ashamed of having been such a poseur here.

kukcj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wait... So those opposed to this are the ones
> questioning it on the basis of factual cost,
> efficiency, effects on traffic flow, etc., while
> those supporting it are doing so on the basis of
> some unspecified and undemonstrated future
> development potential based almost entirely around
> the ambiance of an etraordinarily expensive
> streetcar project. Where's the logic and reasoning
> again? lol

Cram it, asshole. Your imaginary yada-yada-yada goes nowhere. Try passing it off to some bunch of 8th graders.

fingers faster than your brain Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, it wasn't dumbass. In your race to be an
> asshole you read it wrong.

I read it as it was written. The pronoun "one" requires an antecedent. If other than the most recent noun ("monorail", in this case) had been intended, different language should have been chosen. Your string in failure continues.

No Neanderthals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kukcj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wait... So those opposed to this are the ones
> > questioning it on the basis of factual cost,
> > efficiency, effects on traffic flow, etc.,
> while
> > those supporting it are doing so on the basis
> of
> > some unspecified and undemonstrated future
> > development potential based almost entirely
> around
> > the ambiance of an etraordinarily expensive
> > streetcar project. Where's the logic and
> reasoning
> > again? lol
>
> Cram it, asshole. Your imaginary yada-yada-yada
> goes nowhere. Try passing it off to some bunch of
> 8th graders.

So in other words, ya got nuthin. lol

No Neanderthals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> fingers faster than your brain Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, it wasn't dumbass. In your race to be an
> > asshole you read it wrong.
>
> I read it as it was written. The pronoun "one"
> requires an antecedent. If other than the most
> recent noun ("monorail", in this case) had been
> intended, different language should have been
> chosen. Your string in failure continues.

It was clear that they were referring to Portland's streetcar project. Your asshole continues to consume you.

So everyone seems to be saying that the Streetcar is a bad idea because it is too expensive. I guess investing in Metro is too expensive also... I guess we should just get rid of that too right?

A cost-benefit analysis will show that in the long run the streetcar will pay for itself. I have heard numerous times arguments along the lines of 'Arlington is wasting money on a streetcar that will not necessarily generate any return on investment'... My friends, development will DEFINITELY occur, the streetcar will determine what kind of development that will be, whether it be high-intensity or lower more suburban style intensity development.

LET ME BE CLEAR, the streetcar will be the most highly used streetcar in the US by ridership projections. It is cheaper than building a Metro and is probably the best use of money in that corridor.

The Human League Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is cheaper than building a Metro
> and is probably the best use of money in that
> corridor.

Light rail systems are definitely much less expensive than heavy rail systems such as Metro. Whether they are the best use of money is the debatable point. I believe two busses would have the same capacity as the proposed streetcars. Busses have an advantage in being able to go where the streets are, at least for the most part. That means that the routes could be easily extended or changed depending on user demand or conditions.

Busses however have a poorer image than streetcars. This means they are less likely to be used by middle or upper income individuals who in turn might generate a demand for more upscale housing and other development along the Columbia Pike corridor. If you look at the Columbia Pike website, http://www.columbiapikeva.us/streetcar-transit/ , they don't spend much space extolling the virtues of streetcars as vehicles for transportation. Most of the arguments are for the development potential. I do like the picture of the train in front of the Arlington Theatre, although I doubt it or any of those other buildings would survive the redevelopment.

Bill.N. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Human League Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is cheaper than building a Metro
> > and is probably the best use of money in that
> > corridor.
>
> Light rail systems are definitely much less
> expensive than heavy rail systems such as Metro.
> Whether they are the best use of money is the
> debatable point. I believe two busses would have
> the same capacity as the proposed streetcars.
> Busses have an advantage in being able to go where
> the streets are, at least for the most part. That
> means that the routes could be easily extended or
> changed depending on user demand or conditions.
>
> Busses however have a poorer image than
> streetcars. This means they are less likely to be
> used by middle or upper income individuals who in
> turn might generate a demand for more upscale
> housing and other development along the Columbia
> Pike corridor. If you look at the Columbia Pike
> website,
> http://www.columbiapikeva.us/streetcar-transit/ ,
> they don't spend much space extolling the virtues
> of streetcars as vehicles for transportation.
> Most of the arguments are for the development
> potential. I do like the picture of the train in
> front of the Arlington Theatre, although I doubt
> it or any of those other buildings would survive
> the redevelopment.

I'm not a Bill N. cheerleader, but another excellent point. Buses do indeed suffer an image problem, whether related to real issues like unreliability and pollution (at least formerly) or essentially being the transit option mostly for the poor. And by that except in only some cases are generally rejected by the middle class as a true form of transit for consistent use.

Rather, in this case it's seen as a catalyst for redevelopment of that neighborhood, whether by property owners looking to cash in or residents for the longer term looking for something unique and novel for their neighborhood.

No Neanderthals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bus commuter Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > So you're saying $800,000 per bus stop is okay?
> > Seems a little outrageous considering all you
> need
> > is a sign post with the bus route numbers and
> > schedules, and maybe a couple signs saying "No
> > Parking - Bus Zone".
>
> LOL! Is that the way it works where you come
> from? In that case, go back to 1950's Dogpatch
> and fuck yourself, you irrelevant goober dumbfuck.


Clearly you don't live here. Otherwise you'd know exactly what the typical DC area bus stop looks like you ungrateful fuck. Here's a picture. This DID NOT cost $800,000. Not that you can afford to come here from whatever backwater you're in now.
Attachments:

One million dollars spent and people are still freezing their asses off waiting for the bus that's late.

They'll look even better with MS-13 spray painted all over them.

You can see the right side already has the smears of the hand streak as an Arlington resident was collapsing from a heart attack, induced upon learning the cost of the bus stop.

Yeah, you won't get wet at all when the wind and snow is blowing.

As a former bus commuter I'd have to say that the older surrounded stops are better than that. At least they offer some protection. Like the rest of this project something that looks cool in renderings but isn't very practical.

They want Arlington to be like SanFrancisco because they're both run by fags. Except there's no destination for it to be a tourist attraction in Arlington, not enough residents will use it to make any sense. Glad I don't live there.