Here is a broad inaccurate generalization of fact:

Health Care = Health Insurance

You can walk into pretty much any Urgent Care facility without an appointment, without ID, and without $70 for a visit and still get seen often times before the people that are sitting there waiting covered by insurance (hide these people who get it for free). It's the opposite way around in Europe. Usually the cash paying customers get at the head of the line. Why wouldn't they? In Germany for example, where DR's get paid starting 55K euros per yr... around the military installations, they see hundreds of cash paying American's both civilians and dependents and Tricare eligible first while everyone else waits in line. When all is said and done, cash will be the key here too. Make your ala cart arrangements early.

Yeah, get a bill for 3000 bucks for that one visit and then get your credit ruined and then get a letter in the mail threatening a lawsuit unless the balance is settled.

Its unbelievable the amount of ignorance people have about the state of health care for poor people.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would just hope you would be more cautious about
> making a statement like we cover our very poor
> adults under existing Medicaid. Especially since
> the vast majority of our very poor adults are not
> covered under existing Medicaid. That's all I'm
> saying. Its a very simple factual reality is all.
> There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Gerry, I said we cover the poor. We do. Some of it is through medicaid for some specific individuals. Some of it is through other programs. It's not as if the 400,000 are not getting any health care right now, which is what you are trying to claim.

We cover "some" of the poor. Only poor that meet specific conditions, or with specific needs as well as children. Brian I give up at this point.

It's $70 per visit and only $45 in NOVA at my area urgent care for a kids school physical. Free if you don't have ID or cash. Whereas the schools use it as a fund raiser at around $50 a pop.
Anecdotally, I had a major surgery at Georgetown last year. It cost $70000. I am still paying it off monthly, no collections, no ruined credit. Sometimes I only send $100. A support group friend had same surgery and her hospital wrote the whole thing off. She and her husband both had jobs but no insurance. Also had surgery in England, wait time for hernia surgery 8-10 months or private 3 weeks wait time for 1200BPS. Went private. So if single payer is going to be the norm, let me just say, it will not level the playing field for anyone, Especially the poor. People die on those waiting lists. Think VA.

Insurance used to be for accidents, like when you fell off the train on the way to the west. Now people call good insurance something that pays for everything. Well with all these sick people in Amerika there is not enough "paying" to go around for the "everything"

The insurance lobby won this round with ACA bigtime. The problem is they had no idea who they got into bed with.

Does anyone wonder why we re invented the insurance wheel with the "exchanges" when there was a tried and tested AND approved exchange already called the FEHB? Because no one who VOTED for the ACA wanted any of you sickos on their HI plan!

Time to move on. Law of the Land. Resignations have consequences--and we won.

Wow, Gerry is really getting beat down today.

Saslaw says no conspiracy, no deal and alluded to personal issues. Meanwhile other Dems continue the smear campaign. SMH

It seems that most of the lefts points on this are based on emotion, not facts.

Factually speaking, this expansion would be great if it was free. It's not, and the cost is already eating up the General Fund. I'm glad a way was found not to hold the budget hostage on the expansion.

"The rising cost of Medicaid is a serious concern. In a letter to U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell noted that Medicaid spending takes up nearly 21 percent of Virginia's general fund spending. Virginia's current Medicaid enrollment exceeds one million residents. The state spends over $3 billion per year for its share of Medicaid, and costs have been increasing at a rate of over nine percent per year."

http://www.statebudgetsolutions.org/publications/detail/medicaid-expansion-the-wrong-prescription-for-virginia#ixzz34H93rKeV

-------------------------------------------------
“We don’t have any rude, unpleasant people here. We’re different!”

Did you people go out and vote for me today?

Yes, those of us in the 8th.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I already made the argument - if we expand
> Medicaid, eventually we are either going to have
> to cut services or raise taxes to pay for it.

This argument -- like so many of your others -- is a fraud, this time for taking no account of offsetting reductions in state costs. Lying by omission is no more honorable than lying by commission.

But in fact, I see that you have basically been chewed up and spat out here on the matter of Medicaid expansion. So I'll just let you stew in that resounding defeat and make some brief mention of other frauds and errors.



Both
> will hurt Virginia more than the status quo. While
> the status quo is also unacceptable, I would like
> to find ways to solve this problem that don't
> include an entitlement expansion that creates even
> larger unfunded liabilities than we already have.
>
>
> We can't pretend that there is no relationship
> between federal and state spending.
>
> > Brian also doesn't want to discuss the fact
> that
> > with the ACA hospitals will no longer be
> > reimbursed for patients without health care
> that
> > they are required to care for. Medicaid
> > expansion, minus the John Roberts decision
> giving
> > the states the right not to expand Medicaid,
> was
> > supposed to compensate for that gap.
>
> That's not true. Hospitals will still get
> compensation for patients without health care from
> Virginia. That part of the budget has not changed,
> to my knowledge.
>
> > Upwards of four billions dollars a year of
> extra
> > burden may be put on Virginia's hospitals if
> Brian
> > and his Republicans get their way. That means
> > everybody's premiums in this state go up. The
> > hospitals will raise the costs of their
> services
> > on insured patients to make up the short fall.
> All
> > so Brian and his buddies can play national
> > politics against a president that can't run for
> > re-election.
>
> Premiums are going up regardless, and it has
> nothing to do with the Medicaid expansion. As for
> the burden on hospitals, that number doesn't sound
> right.
>
> This isn't about Obama.
>
> > 400,000 Virginians are without health care and
> > Brian says they don't exist. This is a fight
> we
> > believe in more than you. To you its politics,
> to
> > us its humanity. To us health care should be a
> > right not a luxury. This is a fight we will
> > continue to fight. This is a fight that is not
> > going away. This is a fight that will go on
> and
> > that we will win.
>
> They are not without health care. They are without
> health insurance. There is a difference, even if
> you don't want to admit that. Health care is not a
> luxury, but it's also not free.
>
> I want every Virginia to be able to afford
> insurance if they want it, and afford health care
> if they need it. That's a goal we share, we just
> differ in how to get there. I don't believe this
> is the right way to get there.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, I didn't have it memorized. I didn't realize I needed to for a conversation on FU.

You need to know it if you intend to make make claims about it. You didn't know what the debt to GDP ratio actually was or when it peaked. Pretty thin. And you still just lamely ducked the actual point over what makes debt at 102% of GDP so unsustainable today when debt at 120% of GDP was far less than the end of the world following WWII.

> First you say this was a slap in the face, then
> you say it doesn't matter. Which is it?

It's both, dumbo. Obviously this is just an area that you are completely unfamiliar with. Markets may consider sovereign debt ratings for tiny countries and economies, but nobody either needs or takes any help when it comes to dealing with the US. The downgrade issued in 2010 had zero market effect because nobody in the markets cared. The whole exercise was political in nature, trying to slap some sense into the heads of braindead Republicans tied in knots by their neanderthal populist ideologues and TEA Party back-benchers.

> Gross interest payments have remained flat because
> interest rates on government securities are almost
> non-existent. That's not going to be the case
> forever.

Poor Brian! Interest rates on Treasury securities remain the same from the date they are first sold at auction to the date (most often ten years later) when they finally mature. In other words, securities sold in this period of low interest rates will be keeping gross interest payments down for many years to come.

> Even President Obama acknowledges that the debt
> and deficit must be addressed: Is he a babbling fact-free clown, too?

He's a politican, not an economist. You aren't any good at either one.

Actually... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, I didn't have it memorized. I didn't
> realize I needed to for a conversation on FU.
>
> You need to know it if you intend to make make
> claims about it. You didn't know what the debt to
> GDP ratio actually was or when it peaked. Pretty
> thin. And you still just lamely ducked the actual
> point over what makes debt at 102% of GDP so
> unsustainable today when debt at 120% of GDP was
> far less than the end of the world following WWII.
>
>
> > First you say this was a slap in the face, then
> > you say it doesn't matter. Which is it?
>
> It's both, dumbo. Obviously this is just an area
> that you are completely unfamiliar with. Markets
> may consider sovereign debt ratings for tiny
> countries and economies, but nobody either needs
> or takes any help when it comes to dealing with
> the US. The downgrade issued in 2010 had zero
> market effect because nobody in the markets cared.
> The whole exercise was political in nature,
> trying to slap some sense into the heads of
> braindead Republicans tied in knots by their
> neanderthal populist ideologues and TEA Party
> back-benchers.
>
> > Gross interest payments have remained flat
> because
> > interest rates on government securities are
> almost
> > non-existent. That's not going to be the case
> > forever.
>
> Poor Brian! Interest rates on Treasury securities
> remain the same from the date they are first sold
> at auction to the date (most often ten years
> later) when they finally mature. In other words,
> securities sold in this period of low interest
> rates will be keeping gross interest payments down
> for many years to come.
>
> > Even President Obama acknowledges that the debt
> > and deficit must be addressed: Is he a babbling
> fact-free clown, too?
>
> He's a politican, not an economist. You aren't
> any good at either one.


I hate Brian as much as the next guy, but you're a partisan idiot. In most cases, your replies don't even address the point that was being made. Sorry, just another fail post in your incredible streak of failed posts.

Here's the thing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Insurance used to be for accidents...

Insurance has always been a risk-sharing funding mechanism. It doesn't matter what it's for.

> The insurance lobby won this round with ACA bigtime.

Wake up, loser. You can't simply bulldoze the status quo and then build something new in its place. Health care reform is a long slow process that needs to bring everyone along.

> Does anyone wonder why we re invented the
> insurance wheel with the "exchanges" when there
> was a tried and tested AND approved exchange
> already called the FEHB? Because no one who VOTED
> for the ACA wanted any of you sickos on their HI
> plan!

You realize that the exchanges are only for the individual market? Pretty much those who not have access to employer-sponsored health care. FEHB of course is an example of employer-sponsored health care.

Bore Us More Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I hate Brian as much as the next guy, but you're a
> partisan idiot. In most cases, your replies don't
> even address the point that was being made.
> Sorry, just another fail post in your incredible
> streak of failed posts.

Your credentials are what? Your issues are what? Put up or shut up, dorko, and if you put up, I will simply slap you back down.

Actually... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bore Us More Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I hate Brian as much as the next guy, but you're
> a
> > partisan idiot. In most cases, your replies
> don't
> > even address the point that was being made.
> > Sorry, just another fail post in your
> incredible
> > streak of failed posts.
>
> Your credentials are what? Your issues are what?
> Put up or shut up, dorko, and if you put up, I
> will simply slap you back down.


LoLz

 
Attachments:

>Actually
>I will simply slap you back down.

You stupid dipshit the thing your slapping is your lips posting Dumbo Party Line Hack Bullshit. Go on back to Soros now and cry since you have been put in your place.

Slapping Around?? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You stupid dipshit the thing your slapping is your
> lips posting Dumbo Party Line Hack Bullshit. Go on
> back to Soros now and cry since you have been put
> in your place.

About what I expected. Which was nothing. Put up or shut up, dorko. Whenever you're ready. Come on with your best case example here. Watch what happens to it. Stupid pea-brain.

One word Issue... "Pipeline" Now go to the new thread and tell us lies about it.

Medicaid Expansion. With who's money??

Filling in Potomac River Holes with swampland. With who's money??

On and On.. you sure like blowing borrowed money that the young will have to pay back.

And the Federal Medicaid money runs out in two years leaving Va holding the bag.

Now Blow Wind

Ok You Shut Up Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Stupid asshole. You've got your worthless head up your ass.

Tidal wetlands are a key defense against the energy of storm surges. Dyke Marsh is a tidal wetlands that helps protect Maine Avenue and the Georgetown and Anacostia waterfronts. The marsh is in desperate need of restoration thanks to erosion caused by wanton private sector exploitation.

The feds meanwhile pay 100% of the costs of Medicaid expansion for three years, then it declines to 90% in 2020 and thereafter. The state by then will have reaped significant savings from its current health-related spending.

Just more shit that you had no fucking clue about what with being a hopeless goober right-wing dumbshit and all.

As I expected , you know Nothing about the river at All Hopeless One.
The river runs north and south, the swamp does Nothing to Abate Storm surges!
Georgetown, Anacostia Store surges ?? 11-8 miles up river! What a laugh the swamp is under water when any real Hurricanes comes.It does nothing to contain any storm surges. Belle Haven Marina was 4 feet under, there was 3 feet of water in the streets in the area . Storm Surge protection! You dont have a clue!

But You do have THE PARTY LINE.

Tell me wise one what happens to the current safety net that Belle Haven Marina provides to all airline passengers taking off and arriving at Reagan National? They fly in and out right over the Potomac River in Front of Belle Haven. Thousands every day. There are people at Belle Haven and the boats are samll there unlike the big huge boats at National Harbor, Boats that can and HAVE been used in emergencies out on the river To SAVE PEOPLES LIVES.Even the Flying Scott sailboats can save lives in a disaster. Wash Harbor Patrol? Yes there good and they respond all over the Potomac way out of DC if needed but it takes time for them to get down there.

When the Marina is closed so the area can be filled in with your Swampland.. No more safety net asswipe. And "IF" something bad happens . Survivors sue the shit out of the NPS for "Reckless Endangerment " for closing Belle Haven Marina and removing a important safety net for all. And Yes Your "Party Line" demands that Belle Haven Marina be closed "The prefered Option"..Horseshit!

Medicaid, I will agree that the current income level is too low. But it should be raised a couple thousand not many thousand, thats too much considering the Obama economy. Just as going from the current Min wage to 15 dollars is crazy. It also screws those who have gotton promotions from min wage to 15 , 16 dollars a hour and then Newbies start getting their pay.. So I guess they should get another 5 or 7.. "Party Liners" have no fucking clue what it is to run a business. Everyone in a business is a "Millionaire" to you "Party Liners". Nor do you care, you just want money from peoples pockets for "Programs" to Buy votes to keep the assholes in a job.

Now Now Dumbo The Party Liner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I expected , you know Nothing about the river
> at All Hopeless One.

I am far, far better informed than you about the river, which is why I know that Dyke Marsh and the Belle Haven Marina have no connection to each other. They are merely two petitioners for funding, one of which got some under legislation to protect and restore endangered wetlands that was enacted after Hurricane Sandy. The other one didn't get any funding, and now all its backers have turned into disgusting petulant little whining brats. Nothing in the Dyke Marsh restoration plan threatens Belle Haven Marina.

> The river runs north and south, the swamp does
> Nothing to Abate Storm surges!

Such a fucking stupid goober. Tropical storms arrive from the south. They push water ahead of them to the north.

> But You do have THE PARTY LINE.

Also all the scientific studies that universally contradict your moron notions.

> Tell me wise one what happens to the current
> safety net that Belle Haven Marina provides to all
> airline passengers taking off and arriving at
> Reagan National?

Seriously? That's like unbelievably dumb. Plus no one is trying to shut down your stupid marina. Other people got money and you didn't. That's all that happened. Stop your childish whining over it. All that the Dyke Marsh project intends is that the marsh be restored to its natural state and function and protected from the erosion that earlier industrial mining and dredging operations exposed it to. Dyke Marsh has a life expectancy of about 20 years if intervention is not done now.

> When the Marina is closed so the area can be
> filled in with your Swampland..

No such thing is planned, and it appears you have no clue as to what a wetlands is. The only in-fill will be the silt that is brought off the land and into the marsh by the stream and creek networks that feed into and wind through it. That's how wetlands work.

> Medicaid, I will agree that the current income
> level is too low. But it should be raised a couple
> thousand not many thousand, thats too much
> considering the Obama economy.

The economy has done nothing but improve under Obama. Thankfully, he and the team were able to come up with some very clever seat-of-the-pants programs to halt and reverse the awful state of affairs that existed when he first came into office. Recovery would of course have been swifter and stronger had not Republicans attempted to thwart and frustrate every step toward recovery in the belief that a bad economy means better poll results for them. Stupid asshats.

> Just as going from the current Min wage to 15
> dollars is crazy. It also screws those who have
> gotton promotions from min wage to 15 , 16 dollars
> a hour and then Newbies start getting their pay..
> So I guess they should get another 5 or 7..

The problem with current wages for low-wage workers is that corporations are externalizing labor costs that should be paid by their own customers and/or stockholders onto taxpayers at large. Minimum wage workers are typically eligible for benefits under a variety of assistance programs not because they are lazy or don't have enough education, but because they are not paid enough to be able to support themselves.

> "Party Liners" have no fucking clue what it is to
> run a business. Everyone in a business is a
> "Millionaire" to you "Party Liners". Nor do you
> care, you just want money from peoples pockets for
> "Programs" to Buy votes to keep the assholes in a job.

What business do you run? The percentage of all mom and pop small businesses that contributes anything at all to the economy is near zero. All the actual good that comes from small businesses comes from a small number of typically not so young and not so small operations that actually come up with a good idea that let's them go gangbusters for a few years before fading away into the background again. The rest of these pretenders actually accomplish a net nothing, which is why their failure rates are so spectacularly high.

>Other people got money and you didn't. That's all that happened. Stop your childish whining over it

Thats not the problem. Money alone who got it who did not. Yes it would be great if Belle Haven Marina got some money as its been neglected by the NPS in their normal course of "Business" while the Wash Sailing Marina to the north is well taken care of.
Belle Haven is left to Rot so the NPS can say the place "cant make any money and needs too many repairs" so they can close it to provide for the 20 acre "option "of filling in the sailing marina boat basin. Thus closing the sailing school and without that income the operator cant make any money and ..closes. the Marina had two piers and many more boat wet slips years back but their gone because the NPS has not done shit to repair the facility.

Yes its a rigged game and total bullshit as thousands of people enjoy the marina , most of whom dont even own a boat. And it does provide a important safety net to air travelers because "its there".. You should go down there and see it perhaps you might agree it should not be closed.

The 20 acre option is not need to preserve the marsh, theres hundreds of acres
south of the marina to fill. And leave the islands and channels alone too so canoeists and kayakers can enjoy a ride thru the wetland.

So Yes the Plan is to Close The Marina.

What business do you run? No business today, I am a happy retired govt worker who put in my 35 years. I did however run a small business that employed two people in FXCO for 12 years as a sideline till I sold it 20 plus years back. I know what small business people do and how every sucker has there hand out wanting something from the gross. Rent, Yes I had a commercial retail space, Insurance, utilities, cost of goods, truck expenses, repairs, many many more and yes I had a Blue Cross policy for the people who worked for me. they made 8 dollars at the time about the same as 16 dollars a hour today. And they were happy I took over the place as otherwise they would have been out of a job. I barely made squat It was a dream.. But thats what America is all about dreams and people trying to get ahead by starting a business and making it. And none of them are pretenders. And it was all worth it. For the people who worked for me and my experiences in the "Real World".

You of course have never done jack shit but obey your masters and parrot their Party Line.

There You Go Again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You of course have never done jack shit but obey
> your masters and parrot their Party Line.

You've seen one selfish ignorant single-issue assfuck, you've seen them all.

Now go get the "Party Line" To help your ass out..with some new BS in this thread and others.. See Ya....later "Party Line Parrot"

Love Peace Flowers!!!

To Ms.Actually:

Ability to research information from the internet and discern a slanted view: Pretty good.

Ability to run a business: Abysmal and ignorant.

How about those road apples!

Here's the thing Wrote Back to Actually :
-------------------------------------------------------
> Insurance used to be for accidents...

Insurance has always been a risk-sharing funding mechanism. It doesn't matter what it's for.
**********
No, insurance isn't a risk-sharing funding mechanism that is meant to pay for EVERYTHING.... that leads to rationing... If you have never lived in a country with socialized medicine you wouldn't understand this. You should want your decisions to be between you and your DR not the insurance Co. and DR. But if you have never experienced it first hand I get where you would not understand this.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The insurance lobby won this round with ACA bigtime.

Wake up, loser. You can't simply bulldoze the status quo and then build something new in its place. Health care reform is a long slow process that needs to bring everyone along.
*******

Loser, Nice. I can see where in your confusion you throw out names. ACA was about making HC AFFORDABLE for everyone. I am still waiting for the $2500 savings per year My President promised me. Was he lying? Making it up? My premiums have gone up every year since ACA was signed. During the Bush Admin, I received 2 premium refunds.
++++++++++++++++
> Does anyone wonder why we re invented the
> insurance wheel with the "exchanges" when there
> was a tried and tested AND approved exchange
> already called the FEHB? Because no one who VOTED
> for the ACA wanted any of you sickos on their HI
> plan!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You realize that the exchanges are only for the individual market? Pretty much those who not have access to employer-sponsored health care. FEHB of course is an example of employer-sponsored health care.
*************
You do realize that the SAME people giving subsidies are the same people that SPONSOR FEHB right? Please say yes. Already approved exchanges, offered up by a republican in a one page bill prior to ACA passing. So I stand corrected maybe it was YOUR senator who didn't want all you sickos on his health plan.