"A Virginia state senator is set to resign on Monday after cutting a deal with Republicans, a stunning move that gives the state GOP the upper hand in an ongoing fight over the state's budget and an expansion of the Medicaid program under the Affordable Care Act.

Democratic state Sen. Phillip Puckett will step down on Monday, news first reported by The Washington Post. According to the report, Puckett's resignation leads the way for him to get a job as deputy director of the state tobacco commission and for his daughter to be confirmed for a state judgeship.

It also means Republicans now have a 20-19 majority in the state Senate, something that could stall an expansion of the Medicaid program in the middle of an increasingly tenuous, partisan fight over the state budget.

Puckett's office confirmed he will make the announcement on Monday but declined to discuss specifics of the deal that reportedly led to his resignation — a deal some characterized as "bribery."

A furious Gov. Terry McAuliffe, a Democrat, called the situation "unacceptable."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/virginia-state-senator-shockingly-resigns-020418866.html

If Its True..Right On

Many of the Democrat's in the state house should become Republicans anyway.

We already knew this...

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1560708.html

Rut Row. Gerry's gonna blow his pea-headed top when he reads this. Sweet.

More Gerry Butthurt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rut Row. Gerry's gonna blow his pea-headed top
> when he reads this. Sweet.


Notice s/he's MIA on this one.

duplicate thread Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We already knew this...
>
> http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/156
> 0708.html


The title of that thread was not informative. Since no one knows who this senator is, the story is the impact of him resigning (republicans take control of senate). I think you could do a better job titling your threads. I skipped right over the first thread but this one's title has interest.

Obama should do the same thing, It would be the honorable thing to do. Obama is the president Nixxon wanted to be.

Does this means republicans will actually accomplish something good?

All I've seen republicans do over the last 20 years is damage the US economy, shutdown the government and bash Obama.

I love how the GOP will go to extreme lengths including bribery and nepotism, just to deny poor people health care. Talk about selfish assholes. The Baby Boom genereation is complete scum, they used all of the advatages of "socialism" to enrcih themselves and then deny those same opportunities to generations that follow..

GOP SCUM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love how the GOP will go to extreme lengths
> including bribery and nepotism, just to deny poor
> people health care. Talk about selfish assholes.
> The Baby Boom genereation is complete scum, they
> used all of the advatages of "socialism" to enrcih
> themselves and then deny those same opportunities
> to generations that follow..


LoLz

 
Attachments:

The bill only brings back our own federal tax dollars for 2 years at that. The ACA was designed to replace federal hospital funding. Without Medicaid expansion, rural hospitals will go out of business. Its unbelievable the damage these Republicans are willing to do to the state and to bribe lawmakers for it.

All for like you said, so poor people dont have health care. These are your so called compassionate Christians. Jesus would have laid waste to these animals. They are cursed.

Something tells me that this is the beginning of a trend. Goodbye, Sharon, goodbye, Ed Long, goodbye, Karen Garza…let's see what a Republican Board of Supervisors will do!

Is a Republican controlled General Assembly going to end locally elected government in Fairfax? If not it is unlikely that Republican control on the Virginia Senate will have any impact on who is running the County.

This is obvious bribery. How is this legal? The lengths to which Republicans will go to get their way is astounding. These people need to be stopped.

After the meals tax is defeated and a few democrats get bounced off the BoS, the zeal for overtaxing may diminish. It will also be very hard for Fairfax to get money from Richmond for its ridiculous and wasteful programs.

wait and see Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After the meals tax is defeated and a few
> democrats get bounced off the BoS, the zeal for
> overtaxing may diminish. It will also be very hard
> for Fairfax to get money from Richmond for its
> ridiculous and wasteful programs.


Get the fuck off our forum. You rural leech.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wait and see Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > After the meals tax is defeated and a few
> > democrats get bounced off the BoS, the zeal for
> > overtaxing may diminish. It will also be very
> hard
> > for Fairfax to get money from Richmond for its
> > ridiculous and wasteful programs.
>
>
> Get the fuck off our forum. You rural leech.

Nice tolerance Gerr. Keep it classy.

^ Tolerance of what, asshole? Goobers and rednecks who are destroying our country? What a whiner.

Whine, Whine, Whine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ Tolerance of what, asshole? Goobers and rednecks
> who are destroying our country? What a whiner.


LoLz

 
Attachments:

Mr. Whine, Whine, Whine never learned history.

Goobers and Rednecks founded and built this country.

This country is great because of Goobers and Rednecks.

It's the current crop of Socialists/Progressives/Liberals/Democrats who are trying to ruin this country, using failed economic models (Marx, Keynes, etc.), and wreaking havoc with our foreign policy.

This is how Democrats think: the world would be a better place if the U.S. didn't exist.

Oh, you think I made that up?

Popular Democrat George Soros, says that "the main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.” (He wrote this in The Age of Fallibility: Consequences of the War on Terror.)

You see, those of you who are still on the fence, and haven't drank the Leftist Koolaid, the Democrats think that America is the problem.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The bill only brings back our own federal tax
> dollars for 2 years at that. The ACA was designed
> to replace federal hospital funding. Without
> Medicaid expansion, rural hospitals will go out of
> business. Its unbelievable the damage these
> Republicans are willing to do to the state and to
> bribe lawmakers for it.
>
> All for like you said, so poor people dont have
> health care. These are your so called
> compassionate Christians. Jesus would have laid
> waste to these animals. They are cursed.


RURAL hospitals. Why do you fuckin care? Rural areas vote GOP anyways. I'm tired of fellow liberals trying to pass laws to help bum fuck America, let the morons live in their hovels. If Lynchburg doesn't want some of NOVA's socialist lefty money, then fuck em, more for NOVA.

Sucks to put it that way, but they get what they ask for, same goes for rural southern America. Let them sweat and shit themselves in their bumfuck dumps.

Virginia Conservative Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. Whine, Whine, Whine never learned history.
>
> Goobers and Rednecks founded and built this
> country.
>
> This country is great because of Goobers and
> Rednecks.
>
> It's the current crop of
> Socialists/Progressives/Liberals/Democrats who are
> trying to ruin this country, using failed economic
> models (Marx, Keynes, etc.), and wreaking havoc
> with our foreign policy.
>
> This is how Democrats think: the world would be a
> better place if the U.S. didn't exist.
>
> Oh, you think I made that up?
>
> Popular Democrat George Soros, says that "the main
> obstacle to a stable and just world order is the
> United States.” (He wrote this in The Age of
> Fallibility: Consequences of the War on Terror.)
>
> You see, those of you who are still on the fence,
> and haven't drank the Leftist Koolaid, the
> Democrats think that America is the problem.


Hey dumb fuck, he was talking about the former administration with Dr. Evil, sorry Dick Cheney and his puppet in charge. And frankly, with that administration, he was right you dumb fuck.

Sounds Good To Me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Its True..Right On
>
> Many of the Democrat's in the state house should
> become Republicans anyway.

I'll drink to that!

Speaking logic to you Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The bill only brings back our own federal tax
> > dollars for 2 years at that. The ACA was
> designed
> > to replace federal hospital funding. Without
> > Medicaid expansion, rural hospitals will go out
> of
> > business. Its unbelievable the damage these
> > Republicans are willing to do to the state and
> to
> > bribe lawmakers for it.
> >
> > All for like you said, so poor people dont have
> > health care. These are your so called
> > compassionate Christians. Jesus would have laid
> > waste to these animals. They are cursed.
>
>
> RURAL hospitals. Why do you fuckin care? Rural
> areas vote GOP anyways. I'm tired of fellow
> liberals trying to pass laws to help bum fuck
> America, let the morons live in their hovels. If
> Lynchburg doesn't want some of NOVA's socialist
> lefty money, then fuck em, more for NOVA.
>
> Sucks to put it that way, but they get what they
> ask for, same goes for rural southern America. Let
> them sweat and shit themselves in their bumfuck
> dumps.

Well, that sure sounds tempting. But we're stuck paying for these people one way or the other. We've already paid for Medicaid coverage; we should at least get some return on our money. Plus some good people get hurt along with the dumbfucks.

Republicans in Richmond are bribing the opposition now rather than win elections. This an outrage and a scandal. Are there any laws that may have been broken if conspiracy can be proven?

So we have obvious quid pro quo here, when is the Virginia Attorney General launching an investgation and should the Justice Dept. be involved?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 08:12PM by Gerrymanderer2.

Republicans Gain Control Of VA Senate, Oh Christ! Watch VA go down the shitter for the next couple of years.

Rob VA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Republicans Gain Control Of VA Senate, Oh Christ!
> Watch VA go down the shitter for the next couple
> of years.


You mean like it did over the last four. Oh, wait. Never mind.

^^^^ Yes exactly. You were being sarcastic? The last four were shit. Absolute shit.

Here's Virginia law re bribery. It's obvious Puckett was bribed (or threatened). Apparently his constituents are a bunch of poor hillbillies, and his chances of reelection were slim. So Puckett apparently decided it's each man for himself.

The problem is proving it, especially since Puckett has withdrawn his name from consideration for the tobacco position. Of course, there's still the issue of his daughter - who was deliberately denied the judgeship in question by Republicans using a seemingly honorable but bullshit pretext. Puckett can say it was just a happy coincidence that his daughter is now eligible for the judgeship.

I have to imagine that McAuliffe and Herring are vigorously exploring their options at this point. This sort of thing just can't go uncontested.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

§ 18.2-447. When person guilty of bribery.

A person shall be guilty of bribery under the provisions of this article:

(1) If he offers, confers or agrees to confer upon another (a) any pecuniary benefit as consideration for or to obtain or influence the recipient's decision, opinion, recommendation, vote or other exercise of discretion as a public servant or party official, or (b) any benefit as consideration for or to obtain or influence either the recipient's decision, opinion, recommendation, vote or other exercise of official discretion in a judicial or administrative proceeding or the recipient's violation of a known legal duty as a public servant or party official; or

(2) If he accepts or agrees to accept from another (a) any pecuniary benefit offered, conferred or agreed to be conferred as consideration for or to obtain or influence the recipient's decision, opinion, recommendation, vote or other exercise of discretion as a public servant or party official, or (b) any benefit offered, conferred or agreed to be conferred as consideration for or to obtain or influence either the recipient's decision, opinion, recommendation, vote or other exercise of official discretion in a judicial or administrative proceeding or the recipient's violation of a known legal duty as a public servant or party official; or

(3) If he solicits from another (a) any pecuniary benefit or promise of pecuniary benefit as consideration for or in exchange for his decision, opinion, recommendation, vote or other exercise of discretion as a public servant or party official, or (b) any benefit or promise of benefit as consideration for or in exchange for his decision, opinion, recommendation, vote or other exercise of official discretion in a judicial or administrative proceeding or his violation of a known legal duty as a public servant or party official.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-282.2; 1968, c. 552; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^^^^ Yes exactly. You were being sarcastic? The
> last four were shit. Absolute shit.


Seriously? Expanding job base, lowered unemployment, balanced budget, improved roads? No serious intrusions on our civil liberties.


But I'm wasting my time arguing with a drone. You're already bought off. You're part of the establishment now. You're part of the problem.

Forgot to mention that this has happened before, under that buffoon Jim Gilmore. From the Chicago Tribune..

'Virginia politics-watchers have seen this one before: A long-serving Democrat from an increasingly red district gives up his Senate seat to take a state job, handing control of the evenly divided chamber to the GOP.

It happened in 1997, when then-Governor James Gilmore, R, turned a Democratic senator from Loudoun, Charles Waddell, into his deputy transportation secretary and thereby gave the GOP a 20-19 edge.'

Gerry's kids Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No serious intrusions on our civil liberties.

I think the women of Virginia would take exception to that statement, asswipe.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So we have obvious quid pro quo here, when is the
> Virginia Attorney General launching an
> investgation and should the Justice Dept. be
> involved?

STILL WAITING ON THE JUSTICE DEPT TO INVESTIGATE THE OBAMACARE FRAUD THAT OBAMA LAUNCHED. STILL WAITING ON CHARGES FOR THE IRS SCANDAL AS WELL. NEITHER WILL HAPPEN DUE TO CORRUPT DEMOCRATIC JOKES IN THE SENATE, JUSTICE DEPT, AND WHITE HOUSE. NEVER HEAR ABOUT THEIR ISSUED IN THE MEDIA.

BUT ALL OF A SUDDEN THE REPUBLICANS DO WHAT THE DEMOCRATS DID FOR YEARS, AND ALL HELL BREAKS OPEN. GET REAL. DEMOCRATS ALWAYS HAVE BEEN THE PROBLEM. AND IDIOTS LIKE YOU KEEP VOTING THEM IN.

IT IS ABOUT TIME THAT THIS DEMOCRATIC SENATOR REALIZED THAT HIS PARTY WAS JOKE AND SWITCHED GEARS.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^^^^ Yes exactly. You were being sarcastic? The
> last four were shit. Absolute shit.


Yeah, that's why McDonnell had such terrible approval numbers.

You Republicans just can't help but lie, cheat and steal can you? Well you just handed the Governor the Medicaid fight on a silver platter. Hopefully we throw a couple of you in jail in the process for your criminal conduct.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You Republicans just can't help but lie, cheat and
> steal can you? Well you just handed the Governor
> the Medicaid fight on a silver platter. Hopefully
> we throw a couple of you in jail in the process
> for your criminal conduct.


I think the one cheating and stealing in this case was Puckett who's trying not to go to jail.

>All I've seen Democrats do over the last 20 years is damage the US economy, shutdown the government


Fixed it For You turd ..In True FXU style.

He just couldn't support the democrats blatant lies, corruption, and partisanship any more. Shame too few dems have a conscience or the balls to do the right thing and resign.

GOP SCUM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love how the GOP will go to extreme lengths
> including bribery and nepotism, just to deny poor
> people health care. Talk about selfish assholes.
> The Baby Boom genereation is complete scum, they
> used all of the advatages of "socialism" to enrcih
> themselves and then deny those same opportunities
> to generations that follow..


Nobody DENIED anybody healthcare. You idiot!!! Do you just NOT think for yourself!

Hey Thinknot, go suck another GOP dick.

These Republicans are fuckin stupid. They want our federal tax dollars to pay for the health care of the poor of other states while our own Virginians can die for all they care and while these dumb Republicans reps from backwoods districts will have their hospitals go out of business.

For what? To play national politics against a president that can't run for re-election.

Someone please fucking explain the logic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 11:10PM by Gerrymanderer2.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^^^^ Yes exactly. You were being sarcastic? The
> last four were shit. Absolute shit.


Great talking points. How do you get paided? By the word or the cut and paste.

This is good news for those who frequent rest areas looking for dates.

Gerry, Gerry, Gerry.

We've explained this a couple hundred times.

First of all, all of this "federal money" is borrowed. It's mostly mandatory spending and given the size of our budget deficit, none of our actual tax dollars are going anywhere else. The cost of the Medicaid expansion is going to go, like a lot of things, on the credit card.

Second, hospitals aren't going to go out of business, as the cost of uninsured care that can't be collected is already covered by the Commonwealth in the budget. This is the status quo, and our hospitals haven't gone under.

There is no guarantee that the money promised by the Federal government will keep coming, and even what has been promised drops by 10% in the out years and Virginia will have to make up the difference. Our budget is balanced but that's always precarious and we're looking at a likely budget deficit for the next year. When that 100% expansion payment drops to 90%, Virginia is going to be on the hook for the additional cost of an expanded program with no additional revenue coming in at the state level - all the Obamacare tax increases have been federal. The difference will have to be made up either by cutting education, public safety and transportation or by raising taxes. Neither of those is palatable.

There's a commission looking at the problem and trying to find ways to reform medicaid at the state level so we can get some extra cash to cover people who can't afford it. Before you guys go off the deep end, let that process work.

This isn't about Obama anymore. It's about responsible government. We've already saddled our kids with enough debt.

Thanks for your partisan talking points Brian that totally disregards the 400k Virginians without health care as though they are completely irrelevant in this discussion. The 2 year limitation agreed to in the legislation alleviates any of those ridiculious baseless concerns.

Other states are covering thier poor and you refuse to do the same for Virginians.

Now Brian, why don't you also tell us why we should also be content with fact that Republicans are trying to steal the Senate by bribing a Democratic Senator and not at the ballot box. Claiming to be an honorable election official, these developments should be especially troubling to you.

Why don't you tell us how we should be okay with Republicans in Richmond using their powers to promise this Senator a state salary of 140k a year and to make his daughter a judge if he gives them the Senate in the midst of this budget battle.

Its a damn shame Brian, a damn shame.

fails.

Hilarity ensues.

>
> Why don't you tell us how we should be okay with
> Republicans in Richmond using their powers to
> promise this Senator a state salary of 140k a year
> and to make his daughter a judge if he gives them
> the Senate in the midst of this budget battle.
>
>
HERE IS WHY. IT IS NOT THE REPUBLICAN OFFER WHICH SHOULD UPSET YOU. IT SHOULD BE THE DEMOCRAT SWITCHING GEARS. BUT AS USUAL, BLAME THE REPUBLICANS. THIS DEMOCRAT WAS UPSET WITH HIS PARTY AND THIS IS THE ONLY WAY HE COULD SWITCH PARTIES AND STILL GET WHAT HE WANTED.

SEEMS PERFECT TO ME. HE BLASTS THE DEMOCRATS AND ENDS UP THE REPUBLICANS. WHICH IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE IN VA. SO GO CRY AND RIVER. I LOVE IT.

I dont really want to speak to inferior minded right wing trolls with no standards or intellect this morning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 10:16AM by Gerrymanderer2.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dont really want to speak to inferior minded
> right wing trolls with no standards or intellect
> this morning.


WE GET IT. CANT FACE THE TRUTH. FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES. TYPICAL DEMOCRAT.

Silence is golden...

Hey Germanderer2. BOO HOO HOO. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA.

Know your facts Germanderer2. Another BOO HOO HOO. Want a tissue?
Attachments:

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for your partisan talking points Brian that
> totally disregards the 400k Virginians without
> health care as though they are completely
> irrelevant in this discussion. The 2 year
> limitation agreed to in the legislation alleviates
> any of those ridiculious baseless concerns.

They aren't without health care. They are without Medicaid. They still have the same access to health care they have today.

> Other states are covering thier poor and you
> refuse to do the same for Virginians.

We cover our poor. That's what Medicaid is for. These are for people who make more than the poverty line. They're not the truly indigent whom we are obligated to protect, both legally and morally. These are folks who have jobs. Instead of getting them on Medicaid, we should be finding ways to make health insurance more affordable for them.

> Now Brian, why don't you also tell us why we
> should also be content with fact that Republicans
> are trying to steal the Senate by bribing a
> Democratic Senator and not at the ballot box.
> Claiming to be an honorable election official,
> these developments should be especially troubling
> to you.

Phil Puckett served the Commonwealth well for 16 years, and I do not understand why Democrats are attacking him because he chose to resign. There was no bribery, and no quid pro quo. He was never actually offered a job. What bothers me is that this guy serves for 16 years and decides he doesn't want to serve anymore and you guys are attacking him like he's Bernie Madoff.

> Why don't you tell us how we should be okay with
> Republicans in Richmond using their powers to
> promise this Senator a state salary of 140k a year
> and to make his daughter a judge if he gives them
> the Senate in the midst of this budget battle.
>
> Its a damn shame Brian, a damn shame.

Didn't happen. His daughter is already a judge and his sitting in the Senate was barring her from being confirmed in the job, despite both Republicans and Democrats voting in favor of her and her being qualified.

AG Herring says there will be no investigation from his office.

Dick Saslaw says there was no conspiracy.

What is a damn shame is that Phil Puckett is getting dragged through the mud here. It's not right.

You can actually see Gerrymanderer2's head exploding.

If you cared so much you would sign up for Obamacare. You refuse to because you're a clown.

Medicaid already covers the poor.

NOBODY is denied healthcare. Why? Oh yeah, because of a republican president.

Any rural hospitals that have closed and haven't been picked up by larger, regional hospitals, are doing so because of cuts in the ACA.

The supreme court of the United States of America ruled that state wide Medicaid expansion was UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!! and they are right.

G2 PWNAGE ONCE AGAIN!!

bnWVk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, that's why McDonnell had such terrible
> approval numbers.

Maybe the jury will like him.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks for your partisan talking points Brian
> that
> > totally disregards the 400k Virginians without
> > health care as though they are completely
> > irrelevant in this discussion. The 2 year
> > limitation agreed to in the legislation
> alleviates
> > any of those ridiculious baseless concerns.
>
> They aren't without health care. They are without
> Medicaid. They still have the same access to
> health care they have today.
>
> > Other states are covering thier poor and you
> > refuse to do the same for Virginians.
>
> We cover our poor. That's what Medicaid is for.
> These are for people who make more than the
> poverty line. They're not the truly indigent whom
> we are obligated to protect, both legally and
> morally. These are folks who have jobs. Instead of
> getting them on Medicaid, we should be finding
> ways to make health insurance more affordable for
> them.
>
> > Now Brian, why don't you also tell us why we
> > should also be content with fact that
> Republicans
> > are trying to steal the Senate by bribing a
> > Democratic Senator and not at the ballot box.
> > Claiming to be an honorable election official,
> > these developments should be especially
> troubling
> > to you.
>
> Phil Puckett served the Commonwealth well for 16
> years, and I do not understand why Democrats are
> attacking him because he chose to resign. There
> was no bribery, and no quid pro quo. He was never
> actually offered a job. What bothers me is that
> this guy serves for 16 years and decides he
> doesn't want to serve anymore and you guys are
> attacking him like he's Bernie Madoff.
>
> > Why don't you tell us how we should be okay
> with
> > Republicans in Richmond using their powers to
> > promise this Senator a state salary of 140k a
> year
> > and to make his daughter a judge if he gives
> them
> > the Senate in the midst of this budget battle.
> >
> > Its a damn shame Brian, a damn shame.
>
> Didn't happen. His daughter is already a judge and
> his sitting in the Senate was barring her from
> being confirmed in the job, despite both
> Republicans and Democrats voting in favor of her
> and her being qualified.
>
> AG Herring says there will be no investigation
> from his office.
>
> Dick Saslaw says there was no conspiracy.
>
> What is a damn shame is that Phil Puckett is
> getting dragged through the mud here. It's not
> right.


Brian you are probably the sole voice of reason on this website.

dime drops Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How do you get paided? By the word or the cut and paste.

"dime drop" is not worth a plug nickel.

Laughing my ass off. McAuliffe's agenda is dead in the water. Great move!

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This isn't about Obama anymore. It's about
> responsible government. We've already saddled our
> kids with enough debt.

You're making a total ass of yourself once again, Mr. Secretary. Our kids (insert crocodile tears here) will not be repaying the present public debt, just as we have not repaid the even larger debt that was dumped on us by the so-called Greatest Generation. We will in fact NEVER repay the public debt. And neither will any of the other prosperous economies presently carrying debt, which of course is ALL OF THEM.

The problem with you small-brained 10th grade types is that you have never acquired even the most basic understanding of real-world economics. You think that national governments are just like your tiny little households only bigger. That's the epitome of stupid.

Medicaid doesn't cover the poor, that's not accurate. Medicaid covers poor children. So, when facts are just glossed over and misrepresented in such a nonchalant fashion it brings into question the accuracy of the rest of the statement.

The fact is Brian can't make a single argument as to why this is not whats best for Virginia. He makes arguments in relation to national deficits. The real Republican intention here is national politics. Even if it hurts Virginia in the process.

Brian also doesn't want to discuss the fact that with the ACA hospitals will no longer be reimbursed for patients without health care that they are required to care for. Medicaid expansion, minus the John Roberts decision giving the states the right not to expand Medicaid, was supposed to compensate for that gap.

Upwards of four billions dollars a year of extra burden may be put on Virginia's hospitals if Brian and his Republicans get their way. That means everybody's premiums in this state go up. The hospitals will raise the costs of their services on insured patients to make up the short fall. All so Brian and his buddies can play national politics against a president that can't run for re-election.

400,000 Virginians are without health care and Brian says they don't exist. This is a fight we believe in more than you. To you its politics, to us its humanity. To us health care should be a right not a luxury. This is a fight we will continue to fight. This is a fight that is not going away. This is a fight that will go on and that we will win.

poor democrat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Know your facts Germanderer2. Another BOO HOO
> HOO. Want a tissue?

How are you an the facts of where the parties by label have stood on the socio-political spectrum over the years? Doesn't appear that you know fucking diddly-squat about it. Either that or you are deliberately engaging in a transparently obvious historical fallacy.

Actually... Wrote:

> You're making a total ass of yourself once again,
> Mr. Secretary. Our kids (insert crocodile tears
> here) will not be repaying the present public
> debt, just as we have not repaid the even larger
> debt that was dumped on us by the so-called
> Greatest Generation. We will in fact NEVER repay
> the public debt. And neither will any of the
> other prosperous economies presently carrying
> debt, which of course is ALL OF THEM.
>
> The problem with you small-brained 10th grade
> types is that you have never acquired even the
> most basic understanding of real-world economics.
> You think that national governments are just like
> your tiny little households only bigger. That's
> the epitome of stupid.

Of course we will always have debt. That's not the point. The point here is that the levels of debt we are maintaining and the rate we are accumulating that debt are unsustainable. We are approaching, if we haven't already hit it, a debt to GDP ratio that is almost 100%. The last time we were over 100% debt to GDP was during World War II. If we can't reduce the size of our deficit so that the economy can catch up to the debt growth, bad things - like credit downgrades - may happen.

Our kids will be paying the interest on the debt we accumulate, and I'd like for them to be able to afford it without having to pay a 50% effective tax bill.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 01:57PM by BrianSchoeneman.

So this is what happens if Brian and his Republican friends get their.

- 400,000 Virginians remain without health care and all the ramifications to public health that creates.

- Your premiums go up and Republicans of course will blame Obama Care when it was their opposition to Obama Care that caused it.

- Rural hospitals will struggle to balance their books.

- Our federal tax dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars worth will not be brought back to our state.

- Our federal tax dollars instead will go to fund the Medicaid needs of other states, including much more Republican states than ours like Kentucky and Arizona and alike.

Why are they deciding to fight tooth and nail so poor people aren't able to see a doctor in Virginia? I have no idea.

Why are McAuliffe and Herring rolling over and playing dead? This was obvious bribery. And Puckett deserves everything he gets for selling out the state.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Medicaid doesn't cover the poor, that's not
> accurate. Medicaid covers poor children. So,
> when facts are just glossed over and
> misrepresented in such a nonchalant fashion it
> brings into question the accuracy of the rest of
> the statement.

Medicaid covers the poor. SCHIP covers poor children.

Come on, Gerry. You know that.

> The fact is Brian can't make a single argument as
> to why this is not whats best for Virginia. He
> makes arguments in relation to national deficits.
> The real Republican intention here is national
> politics. Even if it hurts Virginia in the
> process.

I already made the argument - if we expand Medicaid, eventually we are either going to have to cut services or raise taxes to pay for it. Both will hurt Virginia more than the status quo. While the status quo is also unacceptable, I would like to find ways to solve this problem that don't include an entitlement expansion that creates even larger unfunded liabilities than we already have.

We can't pretend that there is no relationship between federal and state spending.

> Brian also doesn't want to discuss the fact that
> with the ACA hospitals will no longer be
> reimbursed for patients without health care that
> they are required to care for. Medicaid
> expansion, minus the John Roberts decision giving
> the states the right not to expand Medicaid, was
> supposed to compensate for that gap.

That's not true. Hospitals will still get compensation for patients without health care from Virginia. That part of the budget has not changed, to my knowledge.

> Upwards of four billions dollars a year of extra
> burden may be put on Virginia's hospitals if Brian
> and his Republicans get their way. That means
> everybody's premiums in this state go up. The
> hospitals will raise the costs of their services
> on insured patients to make up the short fall. All
> so Brian and his buddies can play national
> politics against a president that can't run for
> re-election.

Premiums are going up regardless, and it has nothing to do with the Medicaid expansion. As for the burden on hospitals, that number doesn't sound right.

This isn't about Obama.

> 400,000 Virginians are without health care and
> Brian says they don't exist. This is a fight we
> believe in more than you. To you its politics, to
> us its humanity. To us health care should be a
> right not a luxury. This is a fight we will
> continue to fight. This is a fight that is not
> going away. This is a fight that will go on and
> that we will win.

They are not without health care. They are without health insurance. There is a difference, even if you don't want to admit that. Health care is not a luxury, but it's also not free.

I want every Virginia to be able to afford insurance if they want it, and afford health care if they need it. That's a goal we share, we just differ in how to get there. I don't believe this is the right way to get there.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They aren't without health care. They are without
> Medicaid. They still have the same access to
> health care they have today.

Smarm-meter reading in Red Zone.

> We cover our poor. That's what Medicaid is for.
> These are for people who make more than the
> poverty line. They're not the truly indigent whom
> we are obligated to protect, both legally and
> morally. These are folks who have jobs. Instead of
> getting them on Medicaid, we should be finding
> ways to make health insurance more affordable for
> them.

Come on, bullshit artist. When you are making $14,856 per year, there is no means of making market-based, for-profit healthcare "more affordable" enough.

> What is a damn shame is that Phil Puckett is
> getting dragged through the mud here. It's not
> right.

Um, he VOLUNTEERED for the mission, Mr. Secretary. The whole mess is nothing but a right-wing birther-level "We Hate Obama" rally to start out with. There is no actual basis for opposing Medicaid expansion in a state that does as poorly with low-income health care as we do.

It looks like we have to agree to disagree. Plus I feel like Brian is practicing his politics on us anyway. Making the stereotypical what about the children arguments when all else fails.

Bwahahahahaha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The supreme court of the United States of America
> ruled that state wide Medicaid expansion was
> UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!! and they are right.

This will come as shocking news to the 27 states that have already adopted Medicaid expansion. The map of those states is pretty much the same map you get when mapping the highest average IQ or SAT scores. What the Supreme Court ruled meanwhile was that the feds could not try to force states into expansion by threatening to withhold funds for basic Medicaid services if they did not go along. You plainly missed that along with so many, many other things.

> G2 PWNAGE ONCE AGAIN!!

LOL! You're even dumber than the Secretary.

Tray von Martin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian you are probably the sole voice of reason on
> this website.

In a few words, he's a waste-of-time, self-infatuated, right-wing shit-spitter.

Actually... Wrote:

> Come on, bullshit artist. When you are making
> $14,856 per year, there is no means of making
> market-based, for-profit healthcare "more
> affordable" enough.

Okay - so explain to me how expanding Medicaid to folks making up to 133% of the poverty line fixes the problem of the working poor not having access to affordable health insurance.

133% of the poverty level for an individual is $15,521. So someone who makes $15,522 and isn't eligible for expanded Medicaid can all of the sudden afford health insurance? Even with the subsidies provided by the ACA, that's still a heavy burden for someone making that little to cover. And if he doesn't cover it, he pays a tax. Either way, he's worse off than the person on the other side of the line, whereever the line is drawn.

You are always going to have a bubble, and there will always be a push to expand coverage and that just creates a new bubble. Where does it end? Single payer.

The solution here has to be to get the cost of care down. We don't do that by continuing to insulate care from any kind of market based factors. Expanding Medicaid doesn't fix the problem. It just creates all new problems.

> Um, he VOLUNTEERED for the mission, Mr. Secretary.
> The whole mess is nothing but a right-wing
> birther-level "We Hate Obama" rally to start out
> with. There is no actual basis for opposing
> Medicaid expansion in a state that does as poorly
> with low-income health care as we do.

The whole mess isn't a mess at all. Puckett knew he was going to lose next year, and he left when leaving made the most sense to him and his family. Instead of trashing the guy because he decided to step down, just let him go in peace. He's one of yours, after all.

Brian adults making well under 133 % of the poverty line in Virginia do not have Medicaid in Virginia for one. So the rest of your argument is without merit. It is a widespread problem that adults in Virginia that cannot afford health insurance live without it and do not have Medicaid.

If this is going to require for me to pull figures on who these 400,000 Virginians are and the poverty level they live in, I think you'd be surprised to learn that the very poor do not receive Medicaid in this state.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 02:46PM by Gerrymanderer2.

I couldn't help but notice that NO ONE has commented on the thread about the VA. Typical of Dems and Reps playing "Alpha Male Smackdown".

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1562025.html

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course we will always have debt. That's not the
> point. The point here is that the levels of debt
> we are maintaining and the rate we are
> accumulating that debt are unsustainable.

The word "unsustainable" is a worthless, mealy-mouthed theatrical prop for economics goobers. Why don't you try to back up the claim. Keeping in mind of course that debt as a percent og GDP was at about 120% after WWII.

> We are approaching, if we haven't already hit it, a debt
> to GDP ratio that is almost 100%.

So you don't actually KNOW what it is or how to find put.

> The last time we were over 100% debt to GDP was during Word War II.

No, it was after the war. You fail yet again.

> If we can't reduce the size of our deficit so
> that the economy can catch up to the debt growth,
> bad things - like credit downgrades - may happen.

LOL! US debt (i.e., Treasury securities) is the yardstick against which everything else is measured. The theatrics of the 2010 S&P downgrade were intended as a cold slap in the face to asinine TEA Party Republicans for threatening to disrupt the global financial order again. Rates on US debt FUCKING DECLINED in the days after the downgrade. Once again, you come up entirely clueless here.

> Our kids will be paying the interest on the debt
> we accumulate, and I'd like for them to be able to
> afford it without having to pay a 50% effective
> tax bill.

Servicing the public debt is a given. Too bad yahoos and goobers confuse that with paying it off. All scheduled payments of principal and interest will in fact continue to be made. You can bank of that, and could have since the republic was first founded. Of course, there is no appropriation of funds to be used to redeem public debt securities that mature each months, as billions and billions worth of them do. Treasury is expected to and in fact does pay all those off by selling new notes to the same or a different borrower. Gross interest payments on the debt have meanwhile been fairly flat -- $416 billion in 2013 versus $406 billion in 2006, for instance (not adjusted for inflation).

You are again looking like a babbling fact-free clown here.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian adults making well under 133 % of the
> poverty line in Virginia do not have Medicaid in
> Virginia for one. So the rest of your argument is
> without merit. It is a widespread problem that
> adults in Virginia that cannot afford health
> insurance live without it and do not have
> Medicaid.
>
> If this is going to require for me to pull figures
> on who these 400,000 Virginians are and the
> poverty level they live in, I think you'd be
> surprised to learn that the very poor do not
> receive Medicaid in this state.

Here's the data for you, so you don't have to pull it.

http://www.dmas.virginia.gov/Content_atchs/atchs/va-medprg.pdf

1.14 million Virginians, including my mom, are on Medicaid.

The information you've posted does not contain the fact you've been asserting. Individuals with disabilities and the elderly are about 300,000 of the 1.1 million. 621,000 are children and only 222,000 are parents, caregivers or pregnant women.

Now I know pregnant women in poverty receive Medicaid during pregnancy and like 3 months after the birth but that's it.

Tell me Brian, how can there be 621,000 children whom are eligible for and receive Medicaid and only 222,000 parents covered? If the parents are covered as well as you'd like to suggest?

That's just not the case and to suggest anything else is a misrepresentation of the facts. You may be mistaken but I would hope you would verify what people in what levels of poverty receive Medicaid before coming to an opinion on Medicaid expansion.

Actually... Wrote:

> The word "unsustainable" is a worthless,
> mealy-mouthed theatrical prop for economics
> goobers. Why don't you try to back up the claim.
> Keeping in mind of course that debt as a percent
> og GDP was at about 120% after WWII.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/cbo-issues-fresh-long-term-debt-warning-2013-09-17
a

> So you don't actually KNOW what it is or how to
> find put.

No, I didn't have it memorized.

I didn't realize I needed to for a conversation on FU.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt-to-gdp

> No, it was after the war. You fail yet again.

/eyeroll. Feel free to argue that the 1946 numbers don't include anything from the war or its aftermath.

> LOL! US debt (i.e., Treasury securities) is the
> yardstick against which everything else is
> measured. The theatrics of the 2010 S&P downgrade
> were intended as a cold slap in the face to
> asinine TEA Party Republicans for threatening to
> disrupt the global financial order again. Rates
> on US debt FUCKING DECLINED in the days after the
> downgrade. Once again, you come up entirely
> clueless here.

First you say this was a slap in the face, then you say it doesn't matter.

Which is it?

> Servicing the public debt is a given. Too bad
> yahoos and goobers confuse that with paying it
> off. All scheduled payments of principal and
> interest will in fact continue to be made. You
> can bank of that, and could have since the
> republic was first founded. Of course, there is
> no appropriation of funds to be used to redeem
> public debt securities that mature each months, as
> billions and billions worth of them do. Treasury
> is expected to and in fact does pay all those off
> by selling new notes to the same or a different
> borrower. Gross interest payments on the debt
> have meanwhile been fairly flat -- $416 billion in
> 2013 versus $406 billion in 2006, for instance
> (not adjusted for inflation).
>
> You are again looking like a babbling fact-free
> clown here.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm

Gross interest payments have remained flat because interest rates on government securities are almost non-existent. That's not going to be the case forever.

Even President Obama acknowledges that the debt and deficit must be addressed:

"Here’s why. Even after our economy recovers, our government will still be on track to spend more money than it takes in throughout this decade and beyond. That means we’ll have to keep borrowing more from countries like China. And that means more of your tax dollars will go toward paying off the interest on all the loans we keep taking out. By the end of this decade, the interest we owe on our debt could rise to nearly $1 trillion. Just the interest payments.

Then, as the Baby Boomers start to retire and health care costs continue to rise, the situation will get even worse. By 2025, the amount of taxes we currently pay will only be enough to finance our health care programs, Social Security, and the interest we owe on our debt. That’s it. Every other national priority – education, transportation, even national security – will have to be paid for with borrowed money.

Ultimately, all this rising debt will cost us jobs and damage our economy. It will prevent us from making the investments we need to win the future. We won’t be able to afford good schools, new research, or the repair of roads and bridges – all the things that will create new jobs and businesses here in America. Businesses will be less likely to invest and open up shop in a country that seems unwilling or unable to balance its books. And if our creditors start worrying that we may be unable to pay back our debts, it could drive up interest rates for everyone who borrows money – making it harder for businesses to expand and hire, or families to take out a mortgage."

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/04/13/text-of-obama-speech-on-the-deficit/

Is he a babbling fact-free clown, too?

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The information you've posted does not contain the
> fact you've been asserting. Individuals with
> disabilities and the elderly are about 300,000 of
> the 1.1 million. 621,000 are children and only
> 222,000 are parents, caregivers or pregnant
> women.
>
> Now I know pregnant women in poverty receive
> Medicaid during pregnancy and like 3 months after
> the birth but that's it.
>
> Tell me Brian, how can there be 621,000 children
> whom are eligible for and receive Medicaid and
> only 222,000 parents covered? If the parents are
> covered as well as you'd like to suggest?
>
> That's just not the case and to suggest anything
> else is a misrepresentation of the facts. You may
> be mistaken but I would hope you would verify what
> people in what levels of poverty receive Medicaid
> before coming to an opinion on Medicaid expansion.

Because parents can have more than one kid?

You can actually see Gerrymanderer2's head exploding.

If you cared so much you would sign up for Obamacare. You refuse to because you're a clown.

Medicaid already covers the poor.

NOBODY is denied healthcare. Why? Oh yeah, because of a republican president.

Any rural hospitals that have closed and haven't been picked up by larger, regional hospitals, are doing so because of cuts in the ACA.

The supreme court of the United States of America ruled that state wide Medicaid expansion was UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!! and they are right.

G2 PWNAGE ONCE AGAIN!!

http://www.medicaid.gov/AffordableCareAct/Medicaid-Moving-Forward-2014/Downloads/Medicaid-and-CHIP-Eligibility-Levels-Table_HHsize1.pdf

That's the Medicaid eligibility standard by income for an individual in all the states.

See where it says adults and Virginia, that zero means Medicaid is not available for adults in the state of Virginia under any poverty threshold. Only adults on disability get Medicaid in Virginia.

Please get your facts straight Brian. And revise your opinion accordingly.

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Medicaid covers the poor. SCHIP covers poor
> children. Come on, Gerry. You know that.

DMAS may disagree with you...

VIRGINIA MEDICAID AT A GLANCE...

Who is covered by Medicaid?

Medicaid coverage is primarily available to Virginians
who are children in low-income families, pregnant
women, elderly, individuals with disabilities and parents
meeting specific income thresholds.

http://www.dmas.virginia.gov/Content_atchs/atchs/va-medprg.pdf


[Have some work to finish up. Laugh at you more later.]

Hey dumb ass, stop posting the same shit and tell me what those "specific income thresholds" are?

You Republicans are full of shit or you would have what would be very readily available information.

Brian, I am telling you are wrong about who is covered under the existing Medicaid program in this state. Now if you're intention was to be disingenuous then that's fine but if you're making an honest mistake you need to rethink your position.

There is no Medicaid for poor adults in Virginia unless they are on disability. I would Brian corrects himself for the record.

If you're poor, you can go to hell and die for all Richmond cares unless you have a disability, have a baby in the oven or are under the age of 18.

Medicad is FEDERAL program not a STATE program.

can you idiots stfu, you're giving me a headache. half of this country are a bunch of liars. Bad ones at that.

Medicaid in the United States is a social health care program for families and individuals with low income and resources. The Health Insurance Association of America describes Medicaid as a "government insurance program for persons of all ages whose income and resources are insufficient to pay for health care."
(America's Health Insurance Plans (HIAA), pg. 232).

Medicaid is the largest source of funding for medical and health-related services for people with low income in the United States. It is a means-tested program that is jointly funded by the state and federal governments and managed by the states,[1] with each state currently having broad leeway to determine who is eligible for its implementation of the program. States are not required to participate in the program, although all currently do. Medicaid recipients must be U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents, and may include low-income adults, their children, and people with certain disabilities. Poverty alone does not necessarily qualify someone for Medicaid.

Gerry, there is Medicaid for poor adults in Virginia if they are on disability, they are elderly and need long term care, they are caregivers, or they are parents. I already linked this to you.

Like I said, I want everyone to have access to health care they can afford, but we have to be able to pay for it. The one constant in the Medicaid debate is that we have not been able to accurately estimate future costs.

http://www.galen.org/topics/12-reasons-why-virginia-should-not-expand-its-medicaid-program/

Hey moron, follow the conversation, the point is Brian here says poor adults in this state receive Medicaid. No they don't, not if they're not over the age of 65 or on disability.

The whole foundation for Brians position on Medicaid expansion was the national debt and that adults in extreme poverty are already covered under Medicaid which is completely not true whatsoever at all.

See this list, I don't see any category for normal adults in poverty.

http://www.dss.virginia.gov/benefit/medical_assistance/index.cgi
Attachments:

Listen:

Democrats will try to do everything they can to get felons and illegal aliens to vote this fall.

Otherwise, they are toast. The Virginia Senate will easily be taken over by Republicans this fall. Possibly the U.S. Senate as well (I hope). Polls run by both parties show a massive shift, and Democrats are at the losing end.

So, the angry 1% of you who post as Democrats on this forum. Please move to Maryland. Thank you.

Brain hemorrhage much Ger?
Why do you refuse to help the poor?

BrianSchoeneman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gerry, there is Medicaid for poor adults in
> Virginia if they are on disability, they are
> elderly and need long term care, they are
> caregivers, or they are parents. I already linked
> this to you.
>
> Like I said, I want everyone to have access to
> health care they can afford, but we have to be
> able to pay for it. The one constant in the
> Medicaid debate is that we have not been able to
> accurately estimate future costs.
>
> http://www.galen.org/topics/12-reasons-why-virgini
> a-should-not-expand-its-medicaid-program/


Ahhh, Brian corrects himself okay, good.

Brian went from this:
"We cover our poor. That's what Medicaid is for. These are for people who make more than the poverty line. They're not the truly indigent whom we are obligated to protect, both legally and morally. These are folks who have jobs. Instead of getting them on Medicaid, we should be finding ways to make health insurance more affordable for them. "

To this:
"Gerry, there is Medicaid for poor adults in Virginia if they are on disability, they are elderly and need long term care, they are caregivers, or they are parents. I already linked this to you."


I guess that's progress. We don't cover our poor adults Brian. No we don't. Not by any stretch of the imagination do we cover our poor. You are wrong and misrepresenting the facts.

The very vast majority of our states population which lives high levels of poverty and happen to be adults are not covered under Medicaid Brian. The only adults that are covered are those in long term care, under disability or pregnant. And that's a fact. Please, lets stick to the facts Brian. Facts are facts, very stubborn things.

Saying that we cover our very poor adults is a very inaccurate statement.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're poor, you can go to hell and die for all
> Richmond cares unless you have a disability, have
> a baby in the oven or are under the age of 18.

We spend $119 million a year in indigent health care funding.

See pages 21-24

http://www.dpb.virginia.gov/forms/20140128-1/2014Session_GF_Six-YearPlan_January2014.pdf

This is a little outdated, but it says that Virginia hospitals have provided the equivalent of $400 million in care for the indigent in 2010.

http://leg2.state.va.us/dls/h&sdocs.nsf/fc86c2b17a1cf388852570f9006f1299/86139c8f8217c02785257738006ea8bc/$FILE/HD2.pdf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 04:31PM by BrianSchoeneman.

Brian, you know what the biggest irony here is? The state government probably pays for your health care. Your health care needs are more of a burden on the state than would be the health care needs of 400,000 Virginians Medicaid expansion would help.

BrianSchoeneman, I can't stand you. But you're spanking Gerrytard good in here today so for that, I salute you. It's not that hard mind you, but you have the stick-to-it attitude to keep it up and piling it on his brain-dead ass. Most of us get bored slapping him around. For today, good job.

Gerry, we do cover our indigent. It doesn't matter which program does it, it's still being done.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian, you know what the biggest irony here is?
> The state government probably pays for your health
> care. Your health care needs are more of a burden
> on the state than would be the health care needs
> of 400,000 Virginians Medicaid expansion would
> help.

Nope. I've got a union plan. I make the high 4 figures on the Electoral Board and no benefits. Day job covers that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2014 04:40PM by BrianSchoeneman.

I would just hope you would be more cautious about making a statement like we cover our very poor adults under existing Medicaid. Especially since the vast majority of our very poor adults are not covered under existing Medicaid. That's all I'm saying. Its a very simple factual reality is all. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

You're entitled to your own opinions abut not your own facts. And not a political argument based on a broad inaccurate generalization of the facts.

Gerrymanderer2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're entitled to your own opinions abut not your
> own facts. And not a political argument based on
> a broad inaccurate generalization of the facts.


You can't even rip off other people's quotes correctly. Sheesh. Gone downhill Gerr.

The quote is from the late Senator Patrick Moynihan and it goes like this: "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts."