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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 25, 2009 01:42PM

I am the real Suburbanite, TheOrig is the poser. Steve K you made it to 300!

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Doubtful ()
Date: February 25, 2009 01:54PM

As evidenced by your numerous posts when we look you up. Yeah, uh, two.

You children are soooo amusing.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Save the Scedule ()
Date: February 25, 2009 02:03PM

Suburbanite Wrote:

> Studies from other counties, including loudon and
> arlington, have shown starting high school later
> works and I haven't been able to find one school
> system that has switched to later start times that
> decided to go back. In fact, one county had
> considerable doubts, makes me think of you
> actually, and after the change the fears were
> found to be groundless and the community has no
> desire to switch back now.

Orange County (FL) public schools, which cover the Orlando area, Attempted to change start times this year. Orlando is the nation's 11th largest school district, earned an "A" grade from the Florida Dept. of Ed., implemented a schedule change employing late high school start times during a budget crisis, and saw savings of over $700,000 in their transportation budget . . .

. . . Due to massive disruptions of extracurriculars and widespread parent dissappointment towards the new schedule, Orange County Public Schools is reverting to their previous schedule.

It should be noted that Orange County is much more aligned to FCPS than Minneapolis Public Schools - the district from whom we have SLEEP's favorite study. MPS has less than 1/3rd of the students of FCPS, a much higher dropout rate and consistently fails to meet AYP.

Loudoun and Arlington counties are hard to compare with FCPS when it comes to start times. FCPS is more than twice the size of LCPS and SIX times larger than APS. Arlington has the benefit of all 3 high schools utilizing turf fields and Loudoun has had the opportunity to incorporate more athletic field and multi-use facilities as they have expanded north and west. Loudoun High Schools, with the exception of Stone Bridge and Loudoun Valley, are consistently much smaller than FCPS high schools.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 25, 2009 02:36PM

Save the Scedule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suburbanite Wrote:
>
> > Studies from other counties, including loudon
> and
> > arlington, have shown starting high school
> later
> > works and I haven't been able to find one
> school
> > system that has switched to later start times
> that
> > decided to go back. In fact, one county had
> > considerable doubts, makes me think of you
> > actually, and after the change the fears were
> > found to be groundless and the community has no
> > desire to switch back now.
>
> Orange County (FL) public schools, which cover the
> Orlando area, Attempted to change start times this
> year. Orlando is the nation's 11th largest school
> district, earned an "A" grade from the Florida
> Dept. of Ed., implemented a schedule change
> employing late high school start times during a
> budget crisis, and saw savings of over $700,000 in
> their transportation budget . . .
>
> . . . Due to massive disruptions of
> extracurriculars and widespread parent
> dissappointment towards the new schedule, Orange
> County Public Schools is reverting to their
> previous schedule.
>
> It should be noted that Orange County is much more
> aligned to FCPS than Minneapolis Public Schools -
> the district from whom we have SLEEP's favorite
> study. MPS has less than 1/3rd of the students of
> FCPS, a much higher dropout rate and consistently
> fails to meet AYP.
>
> Loudoun and Arlington counties are hard to compare
> with FCPS when it comes to start times. FCPS is
> more than twice the size of LCPS and SIX times
> larger than APS. Arlington has the benefit of all
> 3 high schools utilizing turf fields and Loudoun
> has had the opportunity to incorporate more
> athletic field and multi-use facilities as they
> have expanded north and west. Loudoun High
> Schools, with the exception of Stone Bridge and
> Loudoun Valley, are consistently much smaller than
> FCPS high schools.

Thanks for the info. If you have the source and link, send all that to the school board and make sure they get it and that they understand what could happen if this new bell schedule is passed. FCPS is simply too large and complicated to have the new bell schedule put in. Period.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 25, 2009 02:53PM

WAKE has this info on their website about high school sports from the town meetings last night:

"Field hockey & football, 4-8pm, Volleyball 5-10pm, Cross country 4-6:30pm, Golf 3-5pm (but could be later due to course owners), Swim & dive could be canceled completely if deal can't be worked with county since hours would conflict with peak revenue-use time for rec centers."

That's crazy. The proposed schedule is definitely worse for high school kids who are in sports after school. They are not going to get more sleep. Add to that that it will take them longer to get to school when they drive themselves during rush hour. I grew up in this county. Kids need sports to be considered "well rounded" by the colleges in order to get into a good college (in addition to academics). What is the School Board thinking?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: WAKE UP! ()
Date: February 25, 2009 03:22PM

Totally Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WAKE has this info on their website about high
> school sports from the town meetings last night:
>
> "Field hockey & football, 4-8pm, Volleyball
> 5-10pm, Cross country 4-6:30pm, Golf 3-5pm (but
> could be later due to course owners), Swim & dive
> could be canceled completely if deal can't be
> worked with county since hours would conflict with
> peak revenue-use time for rec centers."
>
> That's crazy. The proposed schedule is definitely
> worse for high school kids who are in sports after
> school. They are not going to get more sleep.
> Add to that that it will take them longer to get
> to school when they drive themselves during rush
> hour. I grew up in this county. Kids need sports
> to be considered "well rounded" by the colleges in
> order to get into a good college (in addition to
> academics). What is the School Board thinking?

Maybe they were listening to the parents who spent many years advocating for a later start time for high school?

Maybe they were listening to the parents who said academics, not sports, should come first?

Maybe they were listening to others who, like you, grew up in the county and were fortunate enough to have later start times when they attended high school?

Just a few thoughts that come to mind.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Suburbanite ()
Date: February 25, 2009 04:03PM

Let's stop the madness. The schedule has worked fine for decades now.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 25, 2009 04:19PM

WAKE UP posted:
Maybe they were listening to others who, like you, grew up in the county and were fortunate enough to have later start times when they attended high school?

WAKE UP,
When I went to high school, eons ago, the high school time was start time was 7:20 or 7:30.

Academics do come first. Go to the career center at a high school around here. They will tell you the same thing they told me as a kid. You need extracurriculars in addition to excellent grades/SAT/etc. in order to get into a good school. What are kids going to put as their extracurricular around here? Sleep?

Also, parents who have high school kids whose extracurriculars aren't sports will also be affected negatively by the proposed schedule. Teachers are not going to want to stay after school forever for extracurriculars.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Wake up WAKE UP ()
Date: February 25, 2009 05:52PM

WAKE UP! Wrote:
> Maybe they were listening to the parents who spent
> many years advocating for a later start time for
> high school?
>
> Maybe they were listening to the parents who said
> academics, not sports, should come first?
>
> Maybe they were listening to others who, like you,
> grew up in the county and were fortunate enough to
> have later start times when they attended high
> school?
>
> Just a few thoughts that come to mind.

Academics come first WAKE UP? Just out of curiosity, have you read the research on later start times? If you have, you've realized that for all of the benefits high schoolers get from later start times, improved grades isn't one of them. The CAREI study out of Minnesota showed that there was no statistically significant improvement in grades after the time change.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Middle School Parent ()
Date: February 25, 2009 07:34PM

The Middle School time change is for the birds. Do people really think High School kids will get more sleep. Gives them more time on their cell phones and Face Book accounts. Sleep really needs to wake up

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 25, 2009 08:00PM

Wake up WAKE UP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WAKE UP! Wrote:
> > Maybe they were listening to the parents who
> spent
> > many years advocating for a later start time
> for
> > high school?
> >
> > Maybe they were listening to the parents who
> said
> > academics, not sports, should come first?
> >
> > Maybe they were listening to others who, like
> you,
> > grew up in the county and were fortunate enough
> to
> > have later start times when they attended high
> > school?
> >
> > Just a few thoughts that come to mind.
>
> Academics come first WAKE UP? Just out of
> curiosity, have you read the research on later
> start times? If you have, you've realized that
> for all of the benefits high schoolers get from
> later start times, improved grades isn't one of
> them. The CAREI study out of Minnesota showed
> that there was no statistically significant
> improvement in grades after the time change.

Exactly my point. We do not have an overall major school performance problem in FCPS. Again, Fairfax County is a really large complicated system. We are talking about many many working people and our traffic system around here stinks to high heaven. Imagine the new bell schedule put in place, we will have hundreds and hundreds of student drivers going on I- 66, FX Pkway, Route 50, etc during rush hour. Then we have our sports people who will be muttering because sports is just as important as academics. Then we have our middle schoolers who will be at a disadvantage not really much to help them be prepared for high school other that getting guidance from their parents, working parents having to adjust their work schedules, elementary kids not getting enough sleep , all because of one stupid hour later for high schools. It is not going to be pretty mark my words.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: ?? ()
Date: February 25, 2009 08:08PM

Robin Hood-

Great points.... High school kids will not gain sleep they will just stay up later

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Liam ()
Date: February 26, 2009 11:42AM

Suburbanite: I also have a high schooler who doesn't complain and is in bed by 9:30. So there goes your "Let Them Eat Cake" approach.

A name can not be used by more than one person/computer. I got flagged when I tried to use my first name. So either: (A) You were drunk and felt bad about your hateful remark. (doubtful) or (B) You're a liar and a slut ( much more likely).

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Liam ()
Date: February 26, 2009 11:44AM

I forgot (C) You're schitzo.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: JackDaleMakes400K ()
Date: February 26, 2009 11:59AM

If you want to let Superintendent Jack Dale know how you feel about school start times--or anything else for that matter--you can talk with him live on the Kojo Nnamdi show on WAMU at noon today. Just call 800-433-8850 or send an email to kojo@wamu.org!

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: survey says ()
Date: February 26, 2009 02:09PM


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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: obezyanka ()
Date: February 26, 2009 11:27PM

A lot of my sons' friends are on facebook until dawn. Do you think changing school start times will make any difference for them???

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: awake ()
Date: February 27, 2009 12:12AM

I'd like to hear reports from those who went to the community dialogues. I was at one on Tuesday and about 75% of the attendees vehemently opposed the change, for a variety of reasons.

I am opposed because of the adverse affect it would have on my ability to provide extracurriculars for my children, who attend a school that would be a late start elementary. It is already difficult to fit in homework, piano lessons, instrument practice, church (one night a week), and play time in between the end of school and bed time. To make their school start even later would push their bedtimes later, and they would still get up early.

One parent there opposed it because her child would be in SACC for about 2.5 hours each morning, and she fears the child will have expended the best part of her day there, rather than in class.

One parent there was concerned about her child having to practice volleyball until 10 pm. What time will she get to sleep if she is practicing a sport at 10pm?

A mother and her swim/dive daughter oppose it because it doesn't look like swim/dive will exist under the proposed plan.

And so on. We were sitting in groups of about 8 and asked to complete a form that recorded out discussion of pros and cons of both the current schedule and the proposed schedule. I don't think anyone's mind was changed that night, but then again--no one at my table had an opinion that differed from mine.

So, for those of you who attended any dialogues--how did it go where you were?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: aparent ()
Date: February 27, 2009 01:23AM

I was at the Wednesday meeting at Rocky Run. Liz Bradsher and Kathy Smith were there and Tina Hone came a little late. It is clear that Tina Hone is very pro sleep. Actually, one of the SLEEP ladies was standing against the wall video taping the FCPS personel running the meeting and the speeches made by the three board members. We were also at tables of about 6 giving our comments. My table had 5 definite NO CHANGE people and 2 wanted the SLEEP proposal. One pro SLEEP person had a high school student whose daughter wanted to sleep later. And the other pro SLEEP had elementary students, but thought that high school kids should sleep later in the morning. This same person said that it was unreasonable for kids to have to get on the bus at 5:00AM (she saw that in an article). I said there was no way there was a 5AM pick up. We had a heated discussion, called the transportation guy over and he said that there we NO 5AM pick ups. And that the only students who got picked up really early (5:45am) were special ed students who were picked up at their front doors, made multiple house stops, and driven to schools further away. All first regular pick ups started no earlier than 6:00am with the "average" being 6:30am.

At the end of the meeting Liz asked for a show of hands from the entire audience if they were against the proposed bus schedule. I would guess that 85-90% of the audience raised their hands. Then Tina Hone, started arguing and asking if we wanted the schedule modified, if anyone thought teens needed extra sleep, etc. The audience started yelling things back and booing. Then it the meeting end.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: fuckyou ()
Date: February 27, 2009 04:34AM

"Then it the meeting end."

Shut the fuck up. I need my sleep.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 27, 2009 06:17AM

I was at the Wednesday meeting at Rocky Run. Liz Bradsher and Kathy Smith were there and Tina Hone came a little late. It is clear that Tina Hone is very pro sleep. Actually, one of the SLEEP ladies was standing against the wall video taping the FCPS personel running the meeting and the speeches made by the three board members. We were also at tables of about 6 giving our comments. My table had 5 definite NO CHANGE people and 2 wanted the SLEEP proposal. One pro SLEEP person had a high school student whose daughter wanted to sleep later. And the other pro SLEEP had elementary students, but thought that high school kids should sleep later in the morning. This same person said that it was unreasonable for kids to have to get on the bus at 5:00AM (she saw that in an article). I said there was no way there was a 5AM pick up. We had a heated discussion, called the transportation guy over and he said that there we NO 5AM pick ups. And that the only students who got picked up really early (5:45am) were special ed students who were picked up at their front doors, made multiple house stops, and driven to schools further away. All first regular pick ups started no earlier than 6:00am with the "average" being 6:30am.

At the end of the meeting Liz asked for a show of hands from the entire audience if they were against the proposed bus schedule. I would guess that 85-90% of the audience raised their hands. Then Tina Hone, started arguing and asking if we wanted the schedule modified, if anyone thought teens needed extra sleep, etc. The audience started yelling things back and booing. Then it the meeting end.

^^^^From aparent, 2/27/09 @ 1:23am


aparent, thank you for attending the meeting and posting about it.

The school board seems to have already promised the SLEEP people that the schedule change will pass for their benefit. Why does Tina never advocate for the disadvantaged students on the Richmond Highway corridor who attend Whitman and Sandburg Middle Schools? Despite being a UC Berkeley grad, Tina Hone does not appear to be counter-culture about much except her own background. Guess she's trying to fit in with the elite and win their favor.

Call me old-fashioned, call me an idiot (as the hysterical poster on the "Let Langley change" thread does), but I do not believe it is morally correct to let the well-connected elitists--who are a minority--dictate what FCPS School Board decides.

The SLEEP people truly believe that they are entitled to bulldoze their way over the rest of the citizens in the county, and that only their ideas are worthy. Classic narcissism.

Tina Hone, Janie Strauss, Dan Storck--you are repugnant, corrupted people who only serve the whims of a few. Shame on you.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: unguster ()
Date: February 27, 2009 07:37AM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was at the Wednesday meeting at Rocky Run. Liz
> Bradsher and Kathy Smith were there and Tina Hone
> came a little late. It is clear that Tina Hone is
> very pro sleep. Actually, one of the SLEEP ladies
> was standing against the wall video taping the
> FCPS personel running the meeting and the speeches
> made by the three board members. We were also at
> tables of about 6 giving our comments. My table
> had 5 definite NO CHANGE people and 2 wanted the
> SLEEP proposal. One pro SLEEP person had a high
> school student whose daughter wanted to sleep
> later. And the other pro SLEEP had elementary
> students, but thought that high school kids should
> sleep later in the morning. This same person said
> that it was unreasonable for kids to have to get
> on the bus at 5:00AM (she saw that in an article).
> I said there was no way there was a 5AM pick up.
> We had a heated discussion, called the
> transportation guy over and he said that there we
> NO 5AM pick ups. And that the only students who
> got picked up really early (5:45am) were special
> ed students who were picked up at their front
> doors, made multiple house stops, and driven to
> schools further away. All first regular pick ups
> started no earlier than 6:00am with the "average"
> being 6:30am.
>
> At the end of the meeting Liz asked for a show of
> hands from the entire audience if they were
> against the proposed bus schedule. I would guess
> that 85-90% of the audience raised their hands.
> Then Tina Hone, started arguing and asking if we
> wanted the schedule modified, if anyone thought
> teens needed extra sleep, etc. The audience
> started yelling things back and booing. Then it
> the meeting end.
>
> ^^^^From aparent, 2/27/09 @ 1:23am
>
>
> aparent, thank you for attending the meeting and
> posting about it.
>
> The school board seems to have already promised
> the SLEEP people that the schedule change will
> pass for their benefit. Why does Tina never
> advocate for the disadvantaged students on the
> Richmond Highway corridor who attend Whitman and
> Sandburg Middle Schools? Despite being a UC
> Berkeley grad, Tina Hone does not appear to be
> counter-culture about much except her own
> background. Guess she's trying to fit in with the
> elite and win their favor.
>
> Call me old-fashioned, call me an idiot (as the
> hysterical poster on the "Let Langley change"
> thread does), but I do not believe it is morally
> correct to let the well-connected elitists--who
> are a minority--dictate what FCPS School Board
> decides.
>
> The SLEEP people truly believe that they are
> entitled to bulldoze their way over the rest of
> the citizens in the county, and that only their
> ideas are worthy. Classic narcissism.
>
> Tina Hone, Janie Strauss, Dan Storck--you are
> repugnant, corrupted people who only serve the
> whims of a few. Shame on you.

I don't think the school board is set on anything. Are you sure, Guster, that you aren't one of the SLEEP people, just trying to pose as "the opposition" but really coming off as looking and acting unrationally and stupid? Your posts seem a bit overboard.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: guster ()
Date: February 27, 2009 08:42AM

To the person who posted as 'unguster': If what you claimed was true (that I am a SLEEP nazi), then that would make me one of your people.

That does not make any sense. Call me stupid. I have not resorted to immature, hysterical name-calling. But if you read posts on here, plenty of intelligent Fairfax County citizens think the proposed changes are not a workable solution for the communities and the students. Most of the school communities in Springfield do not want the schedules changed.

It's amusing that the SLEEP folks come on the Fairfax Underground, which is not typically a destination for the posh Langley set, and think they can throw their ample egos around and convince people that this SLEEP plan brings benefits to the masses. The concept of 'underground' must elude their understanding.

Langley High School clearly benefits the most from the plan. According to MapQuest, one of the farthest homes within the Langley attendance boundary is 16.5 miles from Langley High School. That area is closer to two other FCPS high schools.

There's nothing wrong with Langley/Great Falls folks having money, ambition, etc. But there is definitely something wrong when they try to bully the rest of the citizens into changing all the schedules and run the school board.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: February 27, 2009 08:46AM

It has been disclosed that certain school board member's campaign funds were augmented by SLEEP. Could this possibly alter their common sense stance on this issue?? All campaign funds are public information, check out the website that has this information and write to the appropriate members.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: GimmeABreak ()
Date: February 27, 2009 08:50AM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To the person who posted as 'unguster': If what
> you claimed was true (that I am a SLEEP nazi),
> then that would make me one of your people.
>
> That does not make any sense. Call me stupid. I
> have not resorted to immature, hysterical
> name-calling. But if you read posts on here,
> plenty of intelligent Fairfax County citizens
> think the proposed changes are not a workable
> solution for the communities and the students.
> Most of the school communities in Springfield do
> not want the schedules changed.
>
> It's amusing that the SLEEP folks come on the
> Fairfax Underground, which is not typically a
> destination for the posh Langley set, and think
> they can throw their ample egos around and
> convince people that this SLEEP plan brings
> benefits to the masses. The concept of
> 'underground' must elude their understanding.
>
> Langley High School clearly benefits the most from
> the plan. According to MapQuest, one of the
> farthest homes within the Langley attendance
> boundary is 16.5 miles from Langley High School.
> That area is closer to two other FCPS high
> schools.
>
> There's nothing wrong with Langley/Great Falls
> folks having money, ambition, etc. But there is
> definitely something wrong when they try to bully
> the rest of the citizens into changing all the
> schedules and run the school board.


YOu don't resort to immature name calling? What exactly do you think referring to people as "Nazis" is? Educated, responsible addressing? Give me a break.


And what makes you think that it's only the Langley people that want the later high school times? Are you psychic and KNOW what everyone else wants? You making sweeping blanket statements and blast faceless people with rude labels. You are the immature ranter, guster.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Mozart ()
Date: February 27, 2009 09:41AM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> aparent, thank you for attending the meeting and
> posting about it.
>
> The school board seems to have already promised
> the SLEEP people that the schedule change will
> pass for their benefit. Why does Tina never
> advocate for the disadvantaged students on the
> Richmond Highway corridor who attend Whitman and
> Sandburg Middle Schools? Despite being a UC
> Berkeley grad, Tina Hone does not appear to be
> counter-culture about much except her own
> background. Guess she's trying to fit in with the
> elite and win their favor.
>
> Call me old-fashioned, call me an idiot (as the
> hysterical poster on the "Let Langley change"
> thread does), but I do not believe it is morally
> correct to let the well-connected elitists--who
> are a minority--dictate what FCPS School Board
> decides.
>
> The SLEEP people truly believe that they are
> entitled to bulldoze their way over the rest of
> the citizens in the county, and that only their
> ideas are worthy. Classic narcissism.
>
> Tina Hone, Janie Strauss, Dan Storck--you are
> repugnant, corrupted people who only serve the
> whims of a few. Shame on you.

I'd like the high school start times to be later, but not if the only alternative is to begin middle school at 9:40. So, on balance, I'd leave the current schedule in place.

Guster - I don't live in either McLean nor Langley, but I think your rhetoric is way out of proportion to the issue being debated. I hope that, once this issue is resolved, you stop posting on this forum. If you left the county altogether, even better.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 27, 2009 10:31AM

watchinyou wrote:

Posted by: watchinyou ()
Date: February 27, 2009 08:46AM


It has been disclosed that certain school board member's campaign funds were augmented by SLEEP. Could this possibly alter their common sense stance on this issue?? All campaign funds are public information, check out the website that has this information and write to the appropriate members.


watchinyou (or anyone else),

Could you provide the link for the School Board's campaign contributions? I would be curious to know how much SLEEP contributed. Thanks.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Guster=WWIE ()
Date: February 27, 2009 11:23AM

guster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To the person who posted as 'unguster': If what
> you claimed was true (that I am a SLEEP nazi),
> then that would make me one of your people.
>
> That does not make any sense. Call me stupid. I
> have not resorted to immature, hysterical
> name-calling. But if you read posts on here,
> plenty of intelligent Fairfax County citizens
> think the proposed changes are not a workable
> solution for the communities and the students.
> Most of the school communities in Springfield do
> not want the schedules changed.
>
> It's amusing that the SLEEP folks come on the
> Fairfax Underground, which is not typically a
> destination for the posh Langley set, and think
> they can throw their ample egos around and
> convince people that this SLEEP plan brings
> benefits to the masses. The concept of
> 'underground' must elude their understanding.
>
> Langley High School clearly benefits the most from
> the plan. According to MapQuest, one of the
> farthest homes within the Langley attendance
> boundary is 16.5 miles from Langley High School.
> That area is closer to two other FCPS high
> schools.
>
> There's nothing wrong with Langley/Great Falls
> folks having money, ambition, etc. But there is
> definitely something wrong when they try to bully
> the rest of the citizens into changing all the
> schedules and run the school board.

Unguster does not like the SLEEP proposal but also thinks Guster is out of it's element. Hmmmm, seems like Guster started posting when the SLEEP people did, so what is Guster's point. And, BTW does Guster know "When will it end?" The regulars thought the forum was rid of "WWIE" but apparently the crazy woman or her kin is back.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 27, 2009 05:01PM

I know someone who was at the meeting Thurs. at Providence Elem. She said that there were about 300-400 people at the meeting - parents, FCPS staff, and students. At the very end, the moderator asked for a show of hands for how many were FOR the proposed bell schedule changes. Out of 300-400 people (her estimate), about 10 people raised their hands. All of the rest were against the proposal.

:)

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: aparent ()
Date: February 27, 2009 06:46PM

Totally Anonymous Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know someone who was at the meeting Thurs. at
> Providence Elem. She said that there were about
> 300-400 people at the meeting - parents, FCPS
> staff, and students. At the very end, the
> moderator asked for a show of hands for how many
> were FOR the proposed bell schedule changes. Out
> of 300-400 people (her estimate), about 10 people
> raised their hands. All of the rest were against
> the proposal.
>

Same thing at Rocky Run Wednesday night. We actually had 2 teachers (1 middle and 1 high school) at our table .... both AGAINST the proposed new schedule. The teachers were very, very prepared with their talking points, etc. Teachers appear to be against this whole thing.

Who, again, in the community is actually FOR this new schedule?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: February 27, 2009 07:22PM

aparent wrote:

Who, again, in the community is actually FOR this new schedule?
Attachments:
orvw_logo.jpg

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Middle School Parent ()
Date: February 27, 2009 07:39PM

If so many parents are against the new time schedule, including myself. Do you think the school board will listen to us or do their own thing?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: awake ()
Date: February 27, 2009 09:21PM

I sent letters to all the school board members at the beginning of the month detailing my opposition to this proposal. Two (Tessie Wilson and Kathy Smith) responded indicating that they did not support the proposal. Dan Storck, Ilryong Moon,and James Raney responded indicating that they had not made up their minds. Janie Strauss responded likewise, adding that it was important to see what the majority of the community wants. Well, from what I observed and what others have posted today, it appears clear that the majority of the community does not support the proposed change. It wouldn't hurt (for anyone who hasn't already done so) to write a letter to the school board members explaining your position on the proposed change. The more reasons for opposition, the better.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: I am in favor ()
Date: February 27, 2009 09:51PM

Teachers are generally lazy sh##s who like their cushy hours. SLEEP is good...let the kids sleep. Teachers can quit if they do not like their hours. Year-round school would be another great improvement.


aparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Totally Anonymous Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I know someone who was at the meeting Thurs. at
> > Providence Elem. She said that there were
> about
> > 300-400 people at the meeting - parents, FCPS
> > staff, and students. At the very end, the
> > moderator asked for a show of hands for how
> many
> > were FOR the proposed bell schedule changes.
> Out
> > of 300-400 people (her estimate), about 10
> people
> > raised their hands. All of the rest were
> against
> > the proposal.
> >
>
> Same thing at Rocky Run Wednesday night. We
> actually had 2 teachers (1 middle and 1 high
> school) at our table .... both AGAINST the
> proposed new schedule. The teachers were very,
> very prepared with their talking points, etc.
> Teachers appear to be against this whole thing.
>
> Who, again, in the community is actually FOR this
> new schedule?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: ESKidsMom ()
Date: February 27, 2009 10:55PM

I am not against to let HS kids sleep more, but the new schedule will take away my kids' sleeping time, I see no logic here. Is it obvious that ES kids need even more sleep than HS kids?




I am in favor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teachers are generally lazy sh##s who like their
> cushy hours. SLEEP is good...let the kids sleep.
> Teachers can quit if they do not like their hours.
> Year-round school would be another great
> improvement.
>

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: ESKidsMom ()
Date: February 27, 2009 10:59PM

I tried to contact SLEEP to ask them some questions about their goal and logic. Never got any answer back.

I just can't understand why to push ES one hour earlier fit there goal.

awake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I sent letters to all the school board members at
> the beginning of the month detailing my opposition
> to this proposal. Two (Tessie Wilson and Kathy
> Smith) responded indicating that they did not
> support the proposal. Dan Storck, Ilryong
> Moon,and James Raney responded indicating that
> they had not made up their minds. Janie Strauss
> responded likewise, adding that it was important
> to see what the majority of the community wants.
> Well, from what I observed and what others have
> posted today, it appears clear that the majority
> of the community does not support the proposed
> change. It wouldn't hurt (for anyone who hasn't
> already done so) to write a letter to the school
> board members explaining your position on the
> proposed change. The more reasons for opposition,
> the better.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Favor ()
Date: February 27, 2009 11:02PM

I am in favor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teachers are generally lazy sh##s who like their
> cushy hours. SLEEP is good...let the kids sleep.
> Teachers can quit if they do not like their hours.
> Year-round school would be another great
> improvement.
>
Yes this is called Home School. Where lazy parent sh##s can impose their own year round, noon to 9 p.m. schedule.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Doesn'tAny1KnowHow2Read? ()
Date: February 28, 2009 08:18AM

The point isn't only for the extra sleep, if you bother to read anything from the Task force report, it has to do with the best learning time for the kids.

ELEMENTARY KIDS LEARN BETTER EARLIER IN THE MORNING.

TEENAGERS LEARN BETTER LATER IN THE MORNING.


That's the whole point behind changing the hours, not merely the extra supposed hour of sleep the teenagers may or may not get. In fact, the report even suggests some after school activities be switched to morning, thereby eliminating additional morning sleep, but still moving learning hours to a later hour, when teens are at their best for learning.

And it isn't merely the SLEEP group that created this whole thing, it's the 70+ member Task Force created by the school board and consisting of a wide variety of community members.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: awake ()
Date: February 28, 2009 09:05AM

Doesn'tAny1KnowHow2Read? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point isn't only for the extra sleep, if you
> bother to read anything from the Task force
> report, it has to do with the best learning time
> for the kids.
>
> ELEMENTARY KIDS LEARN BETTER EARLIER IN THE
> MORNING.
>
> TEENAGERS LEARN BETTER LATER IN THE MORNING.
>
>
> That's the whole point behind changing the hours,
> not merely the extra supposed hour of sleep the
> teenagers may or may not get. In fact, the report
> even suggests some after school activities be
> switched to morning, thereby eliminating
> additional morning sleep, but still moving
> learning hours to a later hour, when teens are at
> their best for learning.
>
> And it isn't merely the SLEEP group that created
> this whole thing, it's the 70+ member Task Force
> created by the school board and consisting of a
> wide variety of community members.


First, one thing that concerns many ES parents is that their children would be getting to school so late--9:20 for about 30% of elementary schools--well after their optimal learning time begins,

Second, SLEEP advocates are overrepresented on the TTF (if you bother to read the minority report), which was only formed because SLEEP advocates hounded the board into starting the TTF (if you bother to follow the track of this proposal). If the TTF had been created with a membership representative of the population, this proposal would not have gotten off the ground.

Third, if SLEEP is primarily about learning, and not getting extra sleep, they should have chosen a different acronym. Late Education Arrival Results iN Increased kNowledge Gains (LEARNING) for example. But the acronym is SLEEP. So it really shouldn't surprise anyone that the community views extra sleep as the primary motivator behind the proposal.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: February 28, 2009 09:35AM

Doesn'tAny1KnowHow2Read? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point isn't only for the extra sleep, if you
> bother to read anything from the Task force
> report, it has to do with the best learning time
> for the kids.
>
> ELEMENTARY KIDS LEARN BETTER EARLIER IN THE
> MORNING.
>
> TEENAGERS LEARN BETTER LATER IN THE MORNING.
>
>
> That's the whole point behind changing the hours,
> not merely the extra supposed hour of sleep the
> teenagers may or may not get. In fact, the report
> even suggests some after school activities be
> switched to morning, thereby eliminating
> additional morning sleep, but still moving
> learning hours to a later hour, when teens are at
> their best for learning.
>
> And it isn't merely the SLEEP group that created
> this whole thing, it's the 70+ member Task Force
> created by the school board and consisting of a
> wide variety of community members.

What difference does it make if after school activities are switched to the morning before schools starts? Kids would just get about the same hours of sleep as before! I agree with Awake's post. In fact I read a recent article from Fairfax Times about a high school student working for the middle year program. She asked this to be put SLEEP to rest. If the new bell schedule is passed, this high school student would lose her job from working for the middle year program as well as many others. It will just create a vaccuum effect on the whole if this is passed. Again it won't be pretty out there.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: I laugh in your general direction ()
Date: February 28, 2009 07:38PM

Doesn'tAny1KnowHow2Read? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The point isn't only for the extra sleep, if you
> bother to read anything from the Task force
> report, it has to do with the best learning time
> for the kids.
>
> ELEMENTARY KIDS LEARN BETTER EARLIER IN THE
> MORNING.
>
> TEENAGERS LEARN BETTER LATER IN THE MORNING.
>
>
> That's the whole point behind changing the hours,
> not merely the extra supposed hour of sleep the
> teenagers may or may not get. In fact, the report
> even suggests some after school activities be
> switched to morning, thereby eliminating
> additional morning sleep, but still moving
> learning hours to a later hour, when teens are at
> their best for learning.
>
> And it isn't merely the SLEEP group that created
> this whole thing, it's the 70+ member Task Force
> created by the school board and consisting of a
> wide variety of community members.

Jim Jones would have loved you, because you are drinking in the Kool-Aid like a champ. The "majority" TTF report is a pile of biased garbage. If you look closely at the report, only 24 people actually signed off on the majority report, 7 of those signees are SLEEP members and an 8th was the TTF chairman - who's married to a SLEEP member.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Person ()
Date: February 28, 2009 07:44PM

Just heard about the proposal to start school later to allow teens to sleep in later. Hmmm, does that mean that as adults they should be allowed to call their boss up and ask to come in later to work because they feel sleep-deprived? Part of growing up requires that you learn to be responsible to your obligations and adapt to prevailing circumstances.

If you want to raise responsible and successful kids, it is important that they learn to deal with adversity every once in a while. For example, they will not be allowed to simply forego a class necessary to graduate from college because it is too early for them to get up.

Our kids are smart and creative. They will surely figure out how to deal with early morning classes. Let's not try to change the whole world to accommodate our teens' every whimsy. Life is life.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: STFU ()
Date: February 28, 2009 08:30PM

PLEASE let this thread die.

PLEASE.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: February 28, 2009 08:48PM

Person Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just heard about the proposal to start school
> later to allow teens to sleep in later. Hmmm,
> does that mean that as adults they should be
> allowed to call their boss up and ask to come in
> later to work because they feel sleep-deprived?
> Part of growing up requires that you learn to be
> responsible to your obligations and adapt to
> prevailing circumstances.
>
> If you want to raise responsible and successful
> kids, it is important that they learn to deal with
> adversity every once in a while. For example,
> they will not be allowed to simply forego a class
> necessary to graduate from college because it is
> too early for them to get up.
>
> Our kids are smart and creative. They will surely
> figure out how to deal with early morning classes.
> Let's not try to change the whole world to
> accommodate our teens' every whimsy. Life is
> life.


Being at a bus stop at 6:30 every school morning for six years (our middle school starts at 7:20) can hardly be called an adversity "every once in a while". I don't think the SLEEP proposal is perfect and I'm not even sure that I want it adopted, but something should be done to get these kids to school at a more reasonable hour.

Can't wait to see what position Totally Anonymous takes when her little ones get to 7th grade.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: February 28, 2009 08:48PM

STFU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PLEASE let this thread die.
>
> PLEASE.


sorry

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Angua1 ()
Date: February 28, 2009 09:11PM

Just wanted to point out the obvious: of COURSE teachers and staff for the most part do not support changing start times. Who would take an early job like that in the first place if he wasn't a morning person or needed to work early hours? I'm not saying I'm for or against the proposal, but I think it's fair to point out the obvious bias. Right or wrong, it makes sense that teachers and staff prefer the early hours. I don't personally think this should have any weight with the board's decision. Maybe high schools are missing out on some other great teachers and staffers that can't teach or work in high schools because they can't do the early schedule.

I also don't think any kids *sports* or *jobs* should have any weight on the decision. The majority of kids don't play sports and don't need the extra afternoon hours. The majority who want to focus on school and maybe one or two extracurricular clubs (which don't require so much time) shouldn't be forced to give up their sleep for the minority. Just mo.

I do think kids should get more sleep and I think my son's 6:30 am bus pick-up for Chantilly is way too early. We're only three miles away from the school and we're also the last stop before the bus goes to school. First bell is 7:24. The bus driver tried a 6:50 pickup and couldn't get to school on time. Traffic on Stringfellow can't handle the volume. If I didn't have younger kids, I'd drive my son every day (and use the secret back roads) so that he could sleep until 6:45 which would be much more reasonable than the current 5:45. But we have to rely on the bus.

I checked out high schools in my home state of CA. Many of the public schools start at 7 and get out at 3pm (Irvine). At Santa Clara unified, many schools start early, but I'm familiar with traffic at those schools and they all have multiple lane roads fronting the schools. No traffic jams.

6:30 am bus pickups are just insane but I think the problem is just too big to fix. We've honestly got some really crappy roads around here and there's no money to fix them.

Lastly, we're not getting anywhere by shouting at each other. Both sides have valid concerns. The booing and yelling at the Rocky Run meeting was just embarrassing to witness.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Annoyed Teacher ()
Date: February 28, 2009 11:08PM

Angua1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just wanted to point out the obvious: of COURSE
> teachers and staff for the most part do not
> support changing start times. Who would take an
> early job like that in the first place if he
> wasn't a morning person or needed to work early
> hours? I'm not saying I'm for or against the
> proposal, but I think it's fair to point out the
> obvious bias. Right or wrong, it makes sense that
> teachers and staff prefer the early hours. I don't
> personally think this should have any weight with
> the board's decision. Maybe high schools are
> missing out on some other great teachers and
> staffers that can't teach or work in high schools
> because they can't do the early schedule.
>
> I also don't think any kids *sports* or *jobs*
> should have any weight on the decision. The
> majority of kids don't play sports and don't need
> the extra afternoon hours. The majority who want
> to focus on school and maybe one or two
> extracurricular clubs (which don't require so much
> time) shouldn't be forced to give up their sleep
> for the minority. Just mo.
>
> I do think kids should get more sleep and I think
> my son's 6:30 am bus pick-up for Chantilly is way
> too early. We're only three miles away from the
> school and we're also the last stop before the bus
> goes to school. First bell is 7:24. The bus driver
> tried a 6:50 pickup and couldn't get to school on
> time. Traffic on Stringfellow can't handle the
> volume. If I didn't have younger kids, I'd drive
> my son every day (and use the secret back roads)
> so that he could sleep until 6:45 which would be
> much more reasonable than the current 5:45. But we
> have to rely on the bus.
>
> I checked out high schools in my home state of CA.
> Many of the public schools start at 7 and get out
> at 3pm (Irvine). At Santa Clara unified, many
> schools start early, but I'm familiar with traffic
> at those schools and they all have multiple lane
> roads fronting the schools. No traffic jams.
>
> 6:30 am bus pickups are just insane but I think
> the problem is just too big to fix. We've honestly
> got some really crappy roads around here and
> there's no money to fix them.
>
> Lastly, we're not getting anywhere by shouting at
> each other. Both sides have valid concerns. The
> booing and yelling at the Rocky Run meeting was
> just embarrassing to witness.

Wow. This is one of the most misinformed posts I have ever seen.

- "Who would take an early job like that in the first place if he wasn't a morning person or needed to work early hours?" Teachers do not take the job because they are morning people or because they need early hours. The teach because it is what they want to do. Your statement is ignorant and offensive towards the teaching profession. Do you think teachers are in it for the monster paychecks also?

- "I don't personally think this should have any weight with the board's decision." Teachers are an equal stakeholder in the school community. There is no school without the teachers. Are you suggesting the school board should make a decision without the input of its over 20,000 employees?

- "Maybe high schools are missing out on some other great teachers and staffers that can't teach or work in high schools because they can't do the early schedule." Um, you do realize that you actually need to take classes and get a license to be a teacher, right? Most of teachers in this county/state/country actually have college degrees in education. You can't just walk in off the street an instantly be a good teacher - the private sector and public schools are two vastly different animals.

- "The majority of kids don't play sports and don't need the extra afternoon hours." Where are you getting your information??? The Fairfax County Athletic Council serves over 180,000 youth sports participants. And why do you differentiate between sports and extra-curricular clubs? Both are after-school committments and some of the extra-curriculars put just as much time into their activity, especially the performing arts. Just as the research shows that more sleep helps high schoolers, research also shows that participating in sports or other clubs is beneficial for student achievement and college applications.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: LAM ()
Date: February 28, 2009 11:12PM

Orange County and Florida did this switch to save money on transportation (move High School later) they switched back after 1 year because it had a massive negative impact on students jobs and afterschool activities. They also were concernend about the safety of younger students who were going to school in the dark. SLEEP pushes all the positive experiences in other areas but not the places where this has not worked.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: LAM ()
Date: February 28, 2009 11:25PM

You so oh things will be better for SACC because school times for elementary will be early. Perhaps you did not notice that elementary start times are so spread out that it is ridiculous Poplar Tree, Greenbriar West, Greenbriar East, Colin Powel, and Brookfield have one of the 3 elem. start times. Also,morning SACC commonly is not full but afternoon SACC has a waiting list currently of 4,000 across the county - if you look at their (Fairfax County DFS) budget online you can see this. SLEEP is so tunnel vision on their thoughts on teen health - they ignore the other MAJOR issues as minimal when they are in reality huge.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: awake ()
Date: February 28, 2009 11:32PM

Any other reports from community dialogues? Sounds like public opinion is against this proposal, but we don't have full info. No reports from community dialogues at high schools. What have others heard from school board reps? It seems that only Wilson and Smith have come out to say that they oppose the proposed change--presumably this hasn't changed since the dialogues. Has anyone had any communication from a school board member since the dialogues? I spoke with Moon today (he knocked on my door campaigning) and he did not commit either way. He has a child in high school now--is this swaying his decision? (not sure he will even be on the board when the vote comes up, depending on the results of his bid for county supervisor) Would be interesting to see how school board members are responding to their constituents now, after the dialogues. Anyone with info?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: LAM ()
Date: February 28, 2009 11:34PM

Surbubanite - you have not looked fully at this proposal you keep talking about the ES not needing the bus LOOK LOOK LOOK at the proposal and you will see there are still ES kids out at the time - they have stuck ES kids in any leftover slot. SLEEP people and TTF don't give a darn about the ES kids. AND by the way SACC has a huge waiting list and that can not be changed becuase the space is in the schools and it is set by firecodes and how many people you are allowed to have in the space allocated for SACC. Really you have no clue and have not even looked at it but are just talking the SLEEP talk

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: STFU ()
Date: March 01, 2009 08:16AM

STFU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PLEASE let this thread die.
>
> PLEASE.


Just stop visiting here MORON!! Do not click on the link you friggin IDIOT!!

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: I wonder ()
Date: March 01, 2009 08:29AM

Come on people-while we all need our sleep, the ones that are going to suffer the most are the E.S kids. They need more sleep than anybody. I guess the SLEEP people do not have any young kids. Come up with a plan that will not hurt them and take away the after school activities for the M.S kids. I do not care what you say, after school activities are a big part for them. I see many kids getting off the late bus from M.S.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Steve K ()
Date: March 01, 2009 09:13AM

STFU Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> STFU Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > PLEASE let this thread die.
> >
> > PLEASE.
>
>
> Just stop visiting here MORON!! Do not click on
> the link you friggin IDIOT!!


Bite me STFU. I started this thread, and am very happy with the hundreds of posts and informative debate it has caused.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: obezyanka ()
Date: March 01, 2009 10:07AM

I wonder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Come on people-while we all need our sleep, the
> ones that are going to suffer the most are the E.S
> kids. They need more sleep than anybody. I guess
> the SLEEP people do not have any young kids. Come
> up with a plan that will not hurt them and take
> away the after school activities for the M.S kids.
> I do not care what you say, after school
> activities are a big part for them. I see many
> kids getting off the late bus from M.S.


I've seen these SLEEP ladies. They're in their 50s, their kids are in high school. When I expressed my concern about ES kids (I have one in HS and two in ES), they basically told me that they were mainly advocats for HS kids. Based on their 'research' ES kids have a different 'sleep cycle' and don't need as much sleep in the morning. So far all my son's HS friends oppose this change mainly because of after school activities. If the kids don't want this change, who is it going to be for???

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: March 01, 2009 10:41AM

obezyanka Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Come on people-while we all need our sleep, the
> > ones that are going to suffer the most are the
> E.S
> > kids. They need more sleep than anybody. I
> guess
> > the SLEEP people do not have any young kids.
> Come
> > up with a plan that will not hurt them and take
> > away the after school activities for the M.S
> kids.
> > I do not care what you say, after school
> > activities are a big part for them. I see many
> > kids getting off the late bus from M.S.
>
>
> I've seen these SLEEP ladies. They're in their
> 50s, their kids are in high school. When I
> expressed my concern about ES kids (I have one in
> HS and two in ES), they basically told me that
> they were mainly advocats for HS kids. Based on
> their 'research' ES kids have a different 'sleep
> cycle' and don't need as much sleep in the
> morning. So far all my son's HS friends oppose
> this change mainly because of after school
> activities. If the kids don't want this change,
> who is it going to be for???


It is clear that there is major opposition to this sleep proposal. I don't know why these SLEEP ladies have not really thought out about the WHOLE picture and what the vaccuum effect could be if this was passed.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: March 01, 2009 10:46AM

I think the SLEEP people tricked people into signing their petition. The first line of their petition says,

"We, the undersigned, request that Fairfax County Public Schools create a daily schedule with reasonable start times for all FCPS students."

The proposed bell schedule DOES NOT provide reasonable start times for all students. The elem. school kids and the middle school kids will end up with UNREASONABLE times.

I agree with Wonder and others who wrote that elementary school kids need the most sleep or who have said the proposed elementary school times for some will be too early. It doesn't make sense to make the elem. school kids stand at a bus stop at 7am, when they need up to 11 hours of sleep according to the National Sleep Foundation. 7:50 is too early of a start time for elem. school kids.

As for middle school kids and high school kids, I doubt that they want to lose their sports in order to sleep a little later, or have the sport moved an hour back in the afternoon which would mean they wouldn't sleep more anyway.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Doubtful ()
Date: March 01, 2009 11:58AM

obezyanka Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
If the kids don't want this change,
> who is it going to be for???

Stupid reason to vote against proposal. Kids don't usually want to eat their vegetables either, so we shouldn't feed them vegetables?

The proposed schedule is a poor choice. Middle schools shouldn't end so late in the afternoon, but neither should high school buses pick up so early in the morning as they do now. Classes don't start until at least 30 minutes after the kids are dropped off in many cases, that's absurd. There's no supervision during this time and it doesn't help the students get enough sleep, nor is it particularly safe for them to go to bus stops at 6:15/6:30 in the morning.

But arguing that kids need five hours for volleyball or any other sport is stupid as well. WTF, are these kids professionals or something that they need a five hour sports practice? THAT is way beyond stupid. Those parents and coaches that are supporting sports to that degree need to look at putting academics as the priority. No teenager needs five hours a day for a sports practice. If you want to give your kids extra specialized classes for that, that's your choice, but the rest of the school system shouldn't have to adjust to your dream that little johnnie or janie is going to become the next sports superstar.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: check this out ()
Date: March 01, 2009 11:59AM

Take a look at this scenario, and please remember I am not William Shakespeare.

My elem. school NEW start time would be 7:50. So we have to be at the bus stop by 7:20. That means my 8 yr. old would have to be up by 6:20 to eat a healthy home cooked breakfast, not a pop-tart as he is walking out the door.

So in order to get the proper amount of sleep he would need to be in bed no later than 7. Baseball games (or whatever other kids do) start at 6 and can go as late as 8PM. Now, by the time you get home and clean up, unwind and have a little snack it is 9. Now who is getting the short end of the stick SUBURBANITE? You are imposing (impose on or upon, a. to thrust oneself offensively upon others; intrude.
b. to take unfair advantage of; misuse (influence, friendship, etc.).
c. to defraud; cheat; deceive: A study recently showed the shocking number of confidence men that impose on the public.) your families issues on the rest of us.
Well, not only you but the SLEEP advocates. SLEEP people are in the minority and the last time I checked majortiy rules.

And don't give the line about kids should not be in after school activities. They have to have a release too. Believe it or not some kids actually enjoy playing sports.

When you SLEEP people had elem. school kids were they in bed and asleep by 8? I highly doubt it. So how about a dose of reality of the REAL world with real WORKING families.

Bottom line...find something that will work for everybody, not just your selfish self entitled overinduldged kids!!

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: check this out ()
Date: March 01, 2009 12:01PM

*majority*

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: obtw? ()
Date: March 01, 2009 12:16PM

Where has Suburbanite been?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: March 01, 2009 12:43PM

check this out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take a look at this scenario, and please remember
> I am not William Shakespeare.
>
> My elem. school NEW start time would be 7:50. So
> we have to be at the bus stop by 7:20. That means
> my 8 yr. old would have to be up by 6:20 to eat a
> healthy home cooked breakfast, not a pop-tart as
> he is walking out the door.
>
> So in order to get the proper amount of sleep he
> would need to be in bed no later than 7. Baseball
> games (or whatever other kids do) start at 6 and
> can go as late as 8PM. Now, by the time you get
> home and clean up, unwind and have a little snack
> it is 9. Now who is getting the short end of the
> stick SUBURBANITE? You are imposing (impose on or
> upon, a. to thrust oneself offensively upon
> others; intrude.
> b. to take unfair advantage of; misuse (influence,
> friendship, etc.).
> c. to defraud; cheat; deceive: A study recently
> showed the shocking number of confidence men that
> impose on the public.) your families issues on the
> rest of us.
> Well, not only you but the SLEEP advocates. SLEEP
> people are in the minority and the last time I
> checked majortiy rules.
>
> And don't give the line about kids should not be
> in after school activities. They have to have a
> release too. Believe it or not some kids actually
> enjoy playing sports.
>
> When you SLEEP people had elem. school kids were
> they in bed and asleep by 8? I highly doubt it.
> So how about a dose of reality of the REAL world
> with real WORKING families.
>
> Bottom line...find something that will work for
> everybody, not just your selfish self entitled
> overinduldged kids!!


Your kid needs a whole hour to eat breakfast? I'm so sorry that you would be so inconvenienced that your kid would have to be at the bus stop a full hour later than most high schoolers. You are the selfish overindulged one.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: check this out ()
Date: March 01, 2009 12:54PM

oaktonmom...you ignorant slutt!!

Go finish you pack of Bon Bon's!

In the hour before my son walks out the door he also dresses himself, brushes his teeth and combs his hair. It takes him at least 20-30 min. to eat. You can not shovel in fruit salad, eggs and bacon or what ever HOME cooked meal he eats. If he ate as fast as you he too would weigh 220 plus like you and your pop-tart eating kids.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: and one more thing ()
Date: March 01, 2009 01:00PM

oaktonmom...when you wake up to hurry hurry hurry to get out the door? Say what you want but I know the answer is NO.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: March 01, 2009 01:13PM

Doubtful Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> obezyanka Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> If the kids don't want this change,
> > who is it going to be for???
>
> Stupid reason to vote against proposal. Kids
> don't usually want to eat their vegetables either,
> so we shouldn't feed them vegetables?
>
> The proposed schedule is a poor choice. Middle
> schools shouldn't end so late in the afternoon,
> but neither should high school buses pick up so
> early in the morning as they do now. Classes
> don't start until at least 30 minutes after the
> kids are dropped off in many cases, that's absurd.
> There's no supervision during this time and it
> doesn't help the students get enough sleep, nor is
> it particularly safe for them to go to bus stops
> at 6:15/6:30 in the morning.
>
> But arguing that kids need five hours for
> volleyball or any other sport is stupid as well.
> WTF, are these kids professionals or something
> that they need a five hour sports practice? THAT
> is way beyond stupid. Those parents and coaches
> that are supporting sports to that degree need to
> look at putting academics as the priority. No
> teenager needs five hours a day for a sports
> practice. If you want to give your kids extra
> specialized classes for that, that's your choice,
> but the rest of the school system shouldn't have
> to adjust to your dream that little johnnie or
> janie is going to become the next sports
> superstar.


From what I understand, kids who play volleyball do not practice for 5 hours straight. There are teams with time slots for practice so given the volleyball practice time frame, it does not mean one team practices for 5 hours. I am guessing if this SLEEP thing pass, the last volleyball practice time slot would end at 10 pm and that is rather really dumb.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Mrs. DDS ()
Date: March 01, 2009 02:11PM

oaktonmom wrote:

Your kid needs a whole hour to eat breakfast? I'm so sorry that you would be so inconvenienced that your kid would have to be at the bus stop a full hour later than most high schoolers. You are the selfish overindulged one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm...sounds to me a nerve was struck...could it be the term "overinduldged" to an Oakton parent? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.

If fixing a nutritional meal and allowing the kid to eat it with out being rushed out the door is overinduldging then call me guilty. Just like we have heard all our lives breakfast truly is a major part of the day.

And as far as sleep...in their very own study it states that younger children require more sleep then teens. Don't rob Peter to pay Paul. I think it is ridiculous to think that parents can actually put kids down at 7PM. Most people in this county work and don't get home until 6 or later. Here ya go 3rd grader, nuke these left overs and tuck yourself in and when I get home I will check on you. I guess these SLEEP people are not into family time...or either they have no young children.

This will not pass, so WAKE people don't let it make you lose SLEEP!!

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: March 01, 2009 02:33PM

Oh please, what kid sits at a table for 30 minutes to eat ANY meal? They don't.

How long would it take a kid to eat a bowl of oatmeal and drink a glass of orange juice? 10 minutes, tops. And it's a lot healthier than bacon and eggs.

Pack him a big lunch. He'll fine without a fruit salad for breakfast.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Neen ()
Date: March 01, 2009 02:36PM

What kid needs 11 hours of sleep at night? How many 10 year olds go to bed by 8:00 every night? Your kid will be fine if he has to wake up by 6:00, after a mere 10 hours sleep. If not, perhaps he could take a nap after his endless volleyball practice, before his math tutor, and after piano lessons.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: awake ()
Date: March 01, 2009 03:00PM

Some thoughts:

My ten year old goes to bed by eight. She has to be up by 6:30 to be out the door by 7:30. I'd prefer she get more sleep, but it isn't possible.

Majority rules is not necessarily the best way to make a decision. The issue here is not so much that one group or another of parents are in the majority. The issue is that we need to find a solution that provides for the needs of all. My rights end where yours begin. I suppose that most of us aren't averse to the idea of later start times for high schoolers, but we can't support a change that gives the oldest students what they may need (but are managing fine now without) IF IT MEANS sacrificing the needs of younger students. Our elected school board needs to hear from those who oppose the change--they need to hear all the reasons this proposal fails to consider the impact the change would have on YOUR children. You know that the supporters of SLEEP have commandeered the ears of several on the school board. The only way to make sure the school board votes your way is to make your voice be heard. The community surveys are a joke. Write a letter or email and tell them exactly why this is bad for you. We all have different reasons, and the school board needs to hear all the reasons.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Mrs. DDS ()
Date: March 01, 2009 03:02PM

Neen...I used to think you were on the ball with things, I guess I was wrong or had you confused with somebody else. Cuz now I know you are a bitch!

My kid sits at the table and eats...he is 8. Maybe he has good home schooling and is hungry and likes to eat. Sometimes it takes him 20 min. sometimes it takes longer.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Totally Anonymous ()
Date: March 01, 2009 04:14PM

I agree with awake above who said we should email or mail a letter to those on the School Board to oppose the bell schedule proposal. The email addresses of the school board were on the second post of the thread, but I copied them here for those that are new to the thread:

Please email Kathy Smith at Kathy.L.Smith@fcps.edu and to also copy the other members of the School Board as follows: daniel.storck@fcps.edu, tessie.wilson@fcps.edu, elizabeth.bradsher@fcps.edu, brad.center@fcps.edu, stuart.gibson@fcps.edu, Martina.Hone@fcps.edu, Kaye.Kory@fcps.edu, ilryong.moon@fcps.edu, pneichner@fcps.edu, james.raney@fcps.edu, jane.strauss@fcps.edu

The survey is over and the town meetings are over. Besides emailing or sending a letter to the school board and signing petitions, what else can we do? Any ideas? The school board will vote this month.

Petitions that you can sign:
http://wakefairfax.googlepages.com/action

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Impact on FCPS sports is out . . . and its ugly!
Posted by: Stop SLEEP Now! ()
Date: March 02, 2009 08:25AM

http://www.fcps.edu/news/start/athleticimpact.pdf

It's in writing - Swim and Dive is dead with the new bell schedule.

Well, almost dead . . . here's the verbage from the impact report:

"Fairfax County Park Authority has made no committment to availability of pools should the bell schedule change. Under current available times schools would be unable to practice. If the Park Authority is not able to accomodate a change in FCPS pool use time, swim and dive will not continue as an FCPS sport."

I was also a big fan of these little gems for golf:

(Practice time): "Limited due to Peak Public hours after 4 pm. Dependent on Park Authority and Private Clubs."
(Facility use): "Very limited availability to peak public hours. Range time will still be available with increase in cost."

The new starting times for varsity sports make this whole concept of getting kids more sleep even more laughable - check some of these out and imagine how late kids would actually be leaving the locker room to get home (especially if you're the road team):

Field Hockey: From 7:30 to 8:15
District and Regional Cheer: End times around 11:00
Football: From 7:30 to 8:00; Freshmen and JV would play on different days
Volleyball: From 7:30 to 8:15
Basketball: From 7:30 to 8:00
Wrestling: All meets move to weekend
Lacrosse: From 7:15 to 8:15
Soccer: From 7:30 to 8:30
Tennis: From 3:30 to 4:30 providing students can provide own transportation; matches would be reduced from 10 games to 6 games

This isn't every sport, but gives a pretty good representative sample. The report doesn't include the popular club sports of crew, ice hockey and rugby that are available at some schools.

If this report doesn't put the final nail in the coffin of the proposed bell schedule, I don't know what will.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: aparent ()
Date: March 02, 2009 09:24AM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh please, what kid sits at a table for 30 minutes
> to eat ANY meal? They don't.
>
> How long would it take a kid to eat a bowl of
> oatmeal and drink a glass of orange juice? 10
> minutes, tops. And it's a lot healthier than
> bacon and eggs.
>
> Pack him a big lunch. He'll fine without a fruit
> salad for breakfast.

It's funny that the SLEEP people will tell the ES parents that young kids don't need to get up too early in the morning to get ready for school and that the younger kids can just grab a muffin and run out to the door to an early bus.

Ok, Neen and other SLEEP parents, if that's ok for us, why can't your teens do the same thing and we can just keep the schedule we have.

Why are the SLEEP people willing to sacrifice one group for another? If SLEEP is truly concerned with everyone's well being then they should have worked harder on the task force (since they were the majority) to produce a schedule that would benefit all students. Instead, they pushed the schedule that would benefit just their children.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: LAM ()
Date: March 02, 2009 10:41AM

We (those against SLEEP) need to attend the work sessions like SLEEP does- you don't get to speak but they see the people there and it makes a difference. Think FAIRGRADE and the the whiteout they did (all those in support of FAIRGRADE at the meetings wore white shirts - you could see the impact of that on the meetings which were on channel 21 - it showed they were there and they cared) Those against we need to do the same thing so the schoolboard knows we don't want this to pass.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: March 02, 2009 10:55AM

aparent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oh please, what kid sits at a table for 30
> minutes
> > to eat ANY meal? They don't.
> >
> > How long would it take a kid to eat a bowl of
> > oatmeal and drink a glass of orange juice? 10
> > minutes, tops. And it's a lot healthier than
> > bacon and eggs.
> >
> > Pack him a big lunch. He'll fine without a
> fruit
> > salad for breakfast.
>
> It's funny that the SLEEP people will tell the ES
> parents that young kids don't need to get up too
> early in the morning to get ready for school and
> that the younger kids can just grab a muffin and
> run out to the door to an early bus.
>
> Ok, Neen and other SLEEP parents, if that's ok for
> us, why can't your teens do the same thing and we
> can just keep the schedule we have.
>
> Why are the SLEEP people willing to sacrifice one
> group for another? If SLEEP is truly concerned
> with everyone's well being then they should have
> worked harder on the task force (since they were
> the majority) to produce a schedule that would
> benefit all students. Instead, they pushed the
> schedule that would benefit just their children.

They already run out the door with a muffin. I don't think this will be adopted due to the impact on the sports, etc. I do find it interesting that the most vehemently against it are truly the selfish ones. Younger kids go to bed earlier and generally rise earlier as well and the bus routes are not as long meaning a later pick up time. Don't worry it is not going to pass. You and your precious one can continue to sleep until 8 am and have that nice hot breakfast. I'm sure we will be hearing from you again once your kid is older and having to wake long before dawn to catch that bus.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: agree ()
Date: March 02, 2009 11:02AM

Exactly...parents of middle schoolers etc will be singing a different tune when their kids get to high school...dumb twats.


oaktonmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> aparent Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Oh please, what kid sits at a table for 30
> > minutes
> > > to eat ANY meal? They don't.
> > >
> > > How long would it take a kid to eat a bowl of
> > > oatmeal and drink a glass of orange juice?
> 10
> > > minutes, tops. And it's a lot healthier than
> > > bacon and eggs.
> > >
> > > Pack him a big lunch. He'll fine without a
> > fruit
> > > salad for breakfast.
> >
> > It's funny that the SLEEP people will tell the
> ES
> > parents that young kids don't need to get up
> too
> > early in the morning to get ready for school
> and
> > that the younger kids can just grab a muffin
> and
> > run out to the door to an early bus.
> >
> > Ok, Neen and other SLEEP parents, if that's ok
> for
> > us, why can't your teens do the same thing and
> we
> > can just keep the schedule we have.
> >
> > Why are the SLEEP people willing to sacrifice
> one
> > group for another? If SLEEP is truly concerned
> > with everyone's well being then they should
> have
> > worked harder on the task force (since they
> were
> > the majority) to produce a schedule that would
> > benefit all students. Instead, they pushed the
> > schedule that would benefit just their
> children.
>
> They already run out the door with a muffin. I
> don't think this will be adopted due to the impact
> on the sports, etc. I do find it interesting that
> the most vehemently against it are truly the
> selfish ones. Younger kids go to bed earlier and
> generally rise earlier as well and the bus routes
> are not as long meaning a later pick up time.
> Don't worry it is not going to pass. You and your
> precious one can continue to sleep until 8 am and
> have that nice hot breakfast. I'm sure we will be
> hearing from you again once your kid is older and
> having to wake long before dawn to catch that bus.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: middlemom ()
Date: March 02, 2009 11:12AM

agree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly...parents of middle schoolers etc will be
> singing a different tune when their kids get to
> high school...dumb twats.

Excuse me, but we middle school parents who are against the proposed new schedule already have kids who start school at 7:25 and we DO NOT have a problem with it. So, why would we decide next year that it's a problem.

Talk about worrying about precious children, you current high school "helicopter" parents are the biggest pain in the ass in this county.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Jackie-O! ()
Date: March 02, 2009 12:42PM

Neen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh please, what kid sits at a table for 30 minutes
> to eat ANY meal? They don't.
>
> How long would it take a kid to eat a bowl of
> oatmeal and drink a glass of orange juice? 10
> minutes, tops. And it's a lot healthier than
> bacon and eggs.
>
> Pack him a big lunch. He'll fine without a fruit
> salad for breakfast.

My kids sit at the table and eat like human beings, and if they finish before everybody is done they sit and wait for everybody to finish before they are excused.

It's called teaching them to have manners. Maybe you should try it instead of raising a bunch of heathens! If needed the parks and rec dept. offer etiquette classes.

Who doesn't need more sleep? The answer is not what the SLEEP people are pushing for. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose. How fair is that?

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: March 02, 2009 01:20PM

Jackie-O! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Neen Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Oh please, what kid sits at a table for 30
> minutes
> > to eat ANY meal? They don't.
> >
> > How long would it take a kid to eat a bowl of
> > oatmeal and drink a glass of orange juice? 10
> > minutes, tops. And it's a lot healthier than
> > bacon and eggs.
> >
> > Pack him a big lunch. He'll fine without a
> fruit
> > salad for breakfast.
>
> My kids sit at the table and eat like human
> beings, and if they finish before everybody is
> done they sit and wait for everybody to finish
> before they are excused.
>
> It's called teaching them to have manners. Maybe
> you should try it instead of raising a bunch of
> heathens! If needed the parks and rec dept. offer
> etiquette classes.
>
> Who doesn't need more sleep? The answer is not
> what the SLEEP people are pushing for. They have
> everything to gain and nothing to lose. How fair
> is that?


Wow. You have a nice family sit-down breakfast? I find that hard to believe. No need to exaggerate what a great parent you are.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Robin Hood ()
Date: March 02, 2009 01:57PM

oaktonmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jackie-O! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Oh please, what kid sits at a table for 30
> > minutes
> > > to eat ANY meal? They don't.
> > >
> > > How long would it take a kid to eat a bowl of
> > > oatmeal and drink a glass of orange juice?
> 10
> > > minutes, tops. And it's a lot healthier than
> > > bacon and eggs.
> > >
> > > Pack him a big lunch. He'll fine without a
> > fruit
> > > salad for breakfast.
> >
> > My kids sit at the table and eat like human
> > beings, and if they finish before everybody is
> > done they sit and wait for everybody to finish
> > before they are excused.
> >
> > It's called teaching them to have manners.
> Maybe
> > you should try it instead of raising a bunch of
> > heathens! If needed the parks and rec dept.
> offer
> > etiquette classes.
> >
> > Who doesn't need more sleep? The answer is not
> > what the SLEEP people are pushing for. They
> have
> > everything to gain and nothing to lose. How
> fair
> > is that?
>
>
> Wow. You have a nice family sit-down breakfast?
> I find that hard to believe. No need to
> exaggerate what a great parent you are.

And what is wrong with that, having sit down meals with the family? It is a personal choice whether to raise a family with having sit down meals or shoving meals on the go down their throats and say ok all done.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: March 02, 2009 02:03PM

Nothing is wrong with it. I just doubt that all the family members are available for a nice sit-down for breakfast on week days. Really, don't be ridiculous.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: awake ()
Date: March 02, 2009 02:18PM

oaktonmom Wrote:
> I do find it interesting that
> the most vehemently against it are truly the
> selfish ones. Younger kids go to bed earlier and
> generally rise earlier as well and the bus routes
> are not as long meaning a later pick up time.
> Don't worry it is not going to pass. You and your
> precious one can continue to sleep until 8 am and
> have that nice hot breakfast. I'm sure we will be
> hearing from you again once your kid is older and
> having to wake long before dawn to catch that bus.

What makes parents who oppose the proposed change selfish, and supporters not selfish? You seem to have an incomplete understanding of how the proposal would affect anyone other than yourself. I think you would like it if we all agreed that your child deserves to get more sleep. Well, let me give you a pat on the back--I think it would be great if your child could get more sleep. If there were a feasible plan that protected the interests of ALL the students, this forum wouldn't exist. But until you can respect the concerns of the majority, how can you expect the majority to respect the concerns of your minority?

Some ES kids would go to school at 7:50, but others not until 9:00. This wreaks havoc with lunch schedules, and most students in late start schools would need a snack before the end of the day, since lunch would be much earlier in their day. When is there time for a snack? But saying they should just go without snack is to say that it isn't important for them to learn, since they can't learn on an empty stomach.

Preschoolers with disabilities would attend 9:40-1 and 1-4:20. Of the schools with preschool special education, 60% are in schools with 7:50 start times. So you could have two children attending the same school, but one attends 7:50-2:30 and the other attends 1-4:20. Some afternoon preschoolers would be on the bus until 6pm IF THERE WAS NO TRAFFIC. How much sense does that make?

Middle school activities would be canceled. High school students would be practicing sports until 10pm, if their sport still existed. Perhaps a case can be made that these are not any more essential than your child getting extra sleep (I am still not convinced that he would, but suppose you are committed to getting him to bed by 10pm, as I was in high school, and he didn't have to get up early for other activities,then he would get more sleep).

Families would not be able to rely on high school students to watch the younger ones after school. Now I realize that if you live in Oakton, paying for afterschool care is the least of your worries. But by your reckoning, it is selfish of parents to need inexpensive care for their elementary schooler. I disagree.

I guess it is this kind of thinking that leads to the idea that it is selfish of parents to wonder how their middle schooler is going to handle supervising himself until the bus comes for a 9:40 start time. But again, you live in Oakton. The chance exists that you enjoy a few privileges that are not universally enjoyed by all families in Ffx county. I guess it is selfish of us not to be as privileged as you. On behalf of us, I apologize for our selfishness.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: March 02, 2009 03:11PM

awake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oaktonmom Wrote:
> > I do find it interesting that
> > the most vehemently against it are truly the
> > selfish ones. Younger kids go to bed earlier
> and
> > generally rise earlier as well and the bus
> routes
> > are not as long meaning a later pick up time.
> > Don't worry it is not going to pass. You and
> your
> > precious one can continue to sleep until 8 am
> and
> > have that nice hot breakfast. I'm sure we will
> be
> > hearing from you again once your kid is older
> and
> > having to wake long before dawn to catch that
> bus.
>
> What makes parents who oppose the proposed change
> selfish, and supporters not selfish? You seem to
> have an incomplete understanding of how the
> proposal would affect anyone other than yourself.
> I think you would like it if we all agreed that
> your child deserves to get more sleep. Well, let
> me give you a pat on the back--I think it would be
> great if your child could get more sleep. If
> there were a feasible plan that protected the
> interests of ALL the students, this forum wouldn't
> exist. But until you can respect the concerns of
> the majority, how can you expect the majority to
> respect the concerns of your minority?
>
> Some ES kids would go to school at 7:50, but
> others not until 9:00. This wreaks havoc with
> lunch schedules, and most students in late start
> schools would need a snack before the end of the
> day, since lunch would be much earlier in their
> day. When is there time for a snack? But saying
> they should just go without snack is to say that
> it isn't important for them to learn, since they
> can't learn on an empty stomach.
>
> Preschoolers with disabilities would attend 9:40-1
> and 1-4:20. Of the schools with preschool special
> education, 60% are in schools with 7:50 start
> times. So you could have two children attending
> the same school, but one attends 7:50-2:30 and the
> other attends 1-4:20. Some afternoon preschoolers
> would be on the bus until 6pm IF THERE WAS NO
> TRAFFIC. How much sense does that make?
>
> Middle school activities would be canceled. High
> school students would be practicing sports until
> 10pm, if their sport still existed. Perhaps a
> case can be made that these are not any more
> essential than your child getting extra sleep (I
> am still not convinced that he would, but suppose
> you are committed to getting him to bed by 10pm,
> as I was in high school, and he didn't have to get
> up early for other activities,then he would get
> more sleep).
>
> Families would not be able to rely on high school
> students to watch the younger ones after school.
> Now I realize that if you live in Oakton, paying
> for afterschool care is the least of your worries.
> But by your reckoning, it is selfish of parents
> to need inexpensive care for their elementary
> schooler. I disagree.
>
> I guess it is this kind of thinking that leads to
> the idea that it is selfish of parents to wonder
> how their middle schooler is going to handle
> supervising himself until the bus comes for a 9:40
> start time. But again, you live in Oakton. The
> chance exists that you enjoy a few privileges that
> are not universally enjoyed by all families in Ffx
> county. I guess it is selfish of us not to be as
> privileged as you. On behalf of us, I apologize
> for our selfishness.


Awake where do you live? My residence in Oakton has nothing to do with my positions. I would venture to bet that you live in a bigger house than I do. Very catty of you.

My kids are not in high school yet. My elementary kids start at 9:15. And guess what?? They eat snack at school. That is one of the weakest arguments that I have ever heard. Regarding how late practices would run, some high schoolers are already practicing until 10pm as are some middle schoolers.

Again, I would love for the high schools and some middle schools to start later, but the extracurricular activities are important too. I am criticizing the posters who insist that it is much MORE important for the elementary kids to get their sleep and are using weak arguments like they need a full hour to feed their kids breakfast. If the only factor really was sleep, it would certainly make sense to change the times. Unfortunately, a time change has many other repercussions.

I will accept your apology in advance for misinterpreting my posts.

On a side note. The Fairfax County Board of Supervisors should be called out for allowing residential development without requiring that the builders provide athletic fields (I won't even get into the roads issue). Now there is a huge need to make all the existing fields turf but there is no money to do it. (Thanks Connnelly)

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Jackie-O! ()
Date: March 02, 2009 03:34PM

oaktonmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jackie-O! Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Neen Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Oh please, what kid sits at a table for 30
> > minutes
> > > to eat ANY meal? They don't.
> > >
> > > How long would it take a kid to eat a bowl of
> > > oatmeal and drink a glass of orange juice?
> 10
> > > minutes, tops. And it's a lot healthier than
> > > bacon and eggs.
> > >
> > > Pack him a big lunch. He'll fine without a
> > fruit
> > > salad for breakfast.
> >
> > My kids sit at the table and eat like human
> > beings, and if they finish before everybody is
> > done they sit and wait for everybody to finish
> > before they are excused.
> >
> > It's called teaching them to have manners.
> Maybe
> > you should try it instead of raising a bunch of
> > heathens! If needed the parks and rec dept.
> offer
> > etiquette classes.
> >
> > Who doesn't need more sleep? The answer is not
> > what the SLEEP people are pushing for. They
> have
> > everything to gain and nothing to lose. How
> fair
> > is that?
>
>
> Wow. You have a nice family sit-down breakfast?
> I find that hard to believe. No need to
> exaggerate what a great parent you are.

Let me clarify for you since you obviously can't think for yourself.

Speaking of meals in general, not necessarily breakfast. Neen said "What kids sits for 20-30 min" And you are right, we do have a nice FAMILY....maybe if you did you wouldn't be so bitter!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: March 02, 2009 03:52PM

I can think. You didn't express yourself clearly. "Not necessarily breakfast"? Still not coming clean. Do you ever have a sit-down family breakfast on days other than weekends or holidays? I only ask because you used it as a basis for your argument against SLEEP. In a rather sanctimonious tone, I might add.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: awake ()
Date: March 02, 2009 04:37PM

OaktonMom, for what exactly is it that you think I should apologize? Pointing out some unselfish reasons why people might oppose the SLEEP proposal? Calling you out for your unnecessary attacks on those who do not share your position (e.g., calling someone selfish because they do not share your support of SLEEP)? Providing you with some arguments that you can't refute? I can see why you are offended, but I am not sorry for pointing these out to you.

Again, I think you misunderstand the opposition to SLEEP. It is not that one group of students is more entitled to sleep than another. It is that some families find it difficult to feel sympathy for the argument that a teen (a near adult) needs to start school later than an elementary student--AND that that supposed need takes precedence over legitimate concerns that other families may experience under the current proposal.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Doubtful ()
Date: March 02, 2009 04:50PM

I'm starting to think that OaktonMom is really Suburbanite and Awake is really Guster.

Sure sounds like it.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: March 02, 2009 04:56PM

LOL. I agree, but Awake is definitely more eloquent than Guster.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Jackie-O! ()
Date: March 02, 2009 05:45PM

NO, we all do not sit down to breakfast at the same time during the week. However, that does not mean I should not fix my children breakfast and let them eat it without being rushed. The point is, we do not shove them out the door with a pop-tart and rely on them to eat a snack at school.

I am betting:
1. your children are obese and not very good students
or
2. they are skinny and skrawny and not very good students.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: March 02, 2009 06:01PM

Jackie-O = Wack-O

Have I insulted you or your kids? No. You are vile. I hope your kids learned their manners from daddy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: WaKe uP!! ()
Date: March 02, 2009 06:16PM

oaktonmom=Suburbanite

Same IP's on almost every post.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: March 02, 2009 06:27PM

Wrong

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Doubtful ()
Date: March 02, 2009 08:14PM

Why do people always claim they know poster's IPs?

I find it unlikely.

OaktonMom, you are a bit rude though. Just because you serve your family a breakfast meal doesn't mean no one else eats a healthy breakfast. Plenty of kids eat a decent breakfast, just as plenty don't.

Kind of like the adults in the area.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: SBS ()
Date: March 02, 2009 08:42PM

Sounds like this argument has been rendered moot. Read the top announcement here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: March 02, 2009 11:40PM

Doubtful Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do people always claim they know poster's
> IPs?
>
> I find it unlikely.
>
> OaktonMom, you are a bit rude though. Just
> because you serve your family a breakfast meal
> doesn't mean no one else eats a healthy breakfast.
> Plenty of kids eat a decent breakfast, just as
> plenty don't.
>
> Kind of like the adults in the area.

I think you are talking to Jackie-O. I never said anything about the great meals that I serve my kids. I don't like to brag.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Snore ()
Date: March 03, 2009 09:06AM

SBS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like this argument has been rendered moot.
> Read the top announcement here.



SLEEP doesn't suggest it is moot on their site http://www.sleepinfairfax.org/.

Maybe somebody is trying to act like it is moot, so everyone else thinks it is moot and no longer makes an effort to oppose SLEEP.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: asleep ()
Date: March 03, 2009 10:03AM

awake Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


> Again, I think you misunderstand the opposition to
> SLEEP. It is not that one group of students is
> more entitled to sleep than another. It is that
> some families find it difficult to feel sympathy
> for the argument that a teen (a near adult) needs
> to start school later than an elementary
> student--AND that that supposed need takes
> precedence over legitimate concerns that other
> families may experience under the current
> proposal.

With respect, you could turn that around and say that parents who see that their kids are more alert on late-start days find it "difficult to have sympathy" for people who want the status quo just so their kids can play sports, or whatever.

The bottom line for me is that in spite of my best efforts, I know my teens aren't getting enough sleep. My teens are still much more alert when they get at least an extra hour. I think it's worth the health of my teens to give up something if we have to in order to get start times changed.

That said there are still a lot of complicated reasons why start times can't be changed - but is it really so complicated that we can't at least try to find a workable way to accomplish it?

What if there was a way to work together and solve some of the scheduling glitches with middle and elementary schools? What if there was a way to minimize or eliminate any impact on sports?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: SBS ()
Date: March 03, 2009 11:08AM

Snore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SLEEP doesn't suggest it is moot on their site
> http://www.sleepinfairfax.org/.
>
> Maybe somebody is trying to act like it is moot,
> so everyone else thinks it is moot and no longer
> makes an effort to oppose SLEEP.

I think the school board got exactly what they wanted in this whole clusterfuck, which was to divide & conquer. Most people here who are arguing against SLEEP are actually arguing against the proposed modified bell schedule. Even SLEEP has said that it basically sucks, and that there are too many problems with it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: ASLEEP is a WHINER ()
Date: March 03, 2009 12:38PM

asleep Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------.
>
> The bottom line for me is that in spite of my best
> efforts, I know my teens aren't getting enough
> sleep. My teens are still much more alert when
> they get at least an extra hour. I think it's
> worth the health of my teens to give up something
> if we have to in order to get start times
> changed.
>
>
And because you can't find THE BEST effort that works for YOUR teen, you want the whole county to change. Again the extra hour of sleep comes by going to bed earlier if you haven't figured that out yet, think it might be in Chapter 6 of Dr. Spock. Being responsible and going to bed on time (whatever that time is in YOUR house not in the COUNTY's house) is the unselfish solution that most parents have worked together with their teens to enable performance--not by imposing their "I give up as a parent" strategy on a whole county.

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Re: FCPS Do Not Push School Start Times Back
Posted by: Steve K ()
Date: March 03, 2009 03:34PM

Yes post 400. This is catching up to the redistricting thread.

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