What do the readers of ffxu believe? Do they deserve it or not?

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Fairfax-County-Police-Push-for-Pay-Raises-in-Next-Budget-254827371.html

Sorry forgot to hit paste.

Nope.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2014 12:36AM by chuckhoffmann.

Enough special treatment. What teachers get should be what all FX CO employees get. Thats the way it was for years and should still be.

No No No Way Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Enough special treatment. What teachers get should
> be what all FX CO employees get. Thats the way it
> was for years and should still be.


Teachers and public safety employees have different work and pay rules due to union negotiated contracts.

Quit yer bitchin' or join a union.

Uh, what contracts?

Right to work state yo

Chuck Hoffmann wrote:


I am absolutely in favor of giving any police officer that works for the Fairfax County Police Department and actually lives in Fairfax County a raise.

If they live in Prince William, Loudoun, Fauquier, et al., no raise, because they're essentially just mercenaries, then.

You want to get a bump in pay, you have to be a full member of the community you police and ostensibly serve. You don't get to fuck off to your place in the sticks at the end of the day.



Have you given any thought that the Police do not make enough to live here in Fairfax County. People on here complain that they have nothing to do but write tickets etc, maybe that is because they are doing their jobs and keeping crime down. If they can not fill the job opening the net step will be to lower standard and that will not be good.

­



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2014 03:52AM by chuckhoffmann.

Myself, my wife, and my son all live comfortably on off of a combined income totaling $65/k a year.


Cops can afford to live here if they really wanted to.

chuckhoffmann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thought Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Have you given any thought that the Police do
> not
> > make enough to live here in Fairfax County.
>
> I have, and I know that if you're anything below a
> Lieutenant in the FCPD that you're probably not
> making enough to live in the county unless your
> spouse is working a full-time job as well. I
> estimate that a family needs to be making about
> $90K a year to be able to live here. A new hire on
> the FCPD makes about $40K.
>
> This is why I advocate giving preferential raises
> to the rank-and-file officers that choose to live
> in the county: it's fucking expensive to live
> here.
>
> I've also thought that a monthly housing allowance
> in addition to base pay for FCPD officers who want
> to live in the county might be a good idea (the
> military does this; it's called the Basic
> Allowance for Housing). The advantage here is that
> it wouldn't be part of an officer's salary, so it
> wouldn't be included in their retirement pay
> calculation.
>
> My reasoning is simply that it is good for police
> officers to live in the communities that they
> police, because no matter how professional they
> might be otherwise, they simply don't have the
> same level of investment if they don't live with
> the people they're supposed to be serving.


Quite possibly the first time I've read something that made sense here on Underground.

Some how I don't see the county giving a housing allowance but maybe a tax break they do this for the auxiliary officers it's not much but an incentive. I think that they are due for a raise. The county tells me that the economy is improving but my property tax goes up.

There is no incentive for a cop to live in the county, they don't take cars home so it would look like there was a cop living in your neigborhood, no tax break and traffic no matter where you live sucks. Do we ask or encourage our fireman or teachers to live in the county, nope. So does it really matter?

I think the county government like the Feds need to learn how to manage the money better.

Hobo harry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What do the readers of ffxu believe? Do they
> deserve it or not?


Giving them a raise will be much cheaper for the taxpayers than not giving them a raise. Expecting officers to live in the county is quite unreasonable. You can never have any peace in your home life if you live in the jurisdiction that you police. County residents are so very needy and they will hound you and your family day and night. Quite a few of our K-9 teams live as far away as Spotsylvania and take their county cars home. There are no properties in Fairfax county that have enough land to properly keep our K-9 officers at a reasonable cost.

They definitely deserve a raise. Many haven't had one in years and it's in our best interest to try and keep experienced officers on the job. Fairfax officers are some of the best trained in the country and we as taxpayers spend a lot of $$$ to do that. So why lose them after a few years to other jurisdictions because of pay issues? It make no damn sense. Also it doesn't matter where they live as long as they are on the job on time.

I served as an officer in Fairfax County, Virginia for 23 years. I did not live there. I know a lot of us simply could not afford to. I love the County and care very much about it even now. I certainly was "invested in Fairfax". I listened to the police monitor on my days off and worried about my patrol area when I wasn't there. If that's not invested then I don't know what is. I met many fine citizens in Fairfax and would have loved to live there. I also enjoyed getting away from a very stressful and demanding job. A job that some people really don't understand or are consciously aware of. I understand that no one can really grasp what officers face unless they have done it. It's the old "walk a mile in my shoes". And that goes for firefighters and teachers, nurses and others. I lived in another jusrisdiction and still had neighbors coming to my house day and night and weekends with their problems because word gets around when you are a cop. No one ever lets you forget the job and that's what you signed up for and I'm not complaining. It is just very demanding. I care about Fairfax County and would do it all again. You don't wear a badge anywhere unless your are "invested" because it is a lot more than just a job. Do FCPD officers deserve a raise? I think they do. The standards for police officers everywhere have been lowered and only the best paying jurisdictions are going to get the best candidates because of the competition. We love our jobs and I didn't become an officer for the money or benefits. I really wanted to be a Fairfax County Police Officer. I was proud to be one. And I am thankful for the opportunities I had there. And I still care about the County and it's people and I am grateful for the trust that was placed in me and for the opportunity that I had to serve. Thanks.

no.

they should have high pay as to other county workers (teachers) because there is allot of danger now in fx. co.

however facism is where unionized gov. workers decide their own pay and use police to put a gun to the head of anyone disagreeing

police are handpicked from a group who have loyalty and believe what authority says and they naturally will believe and do anything if given high pay, this is instinctive.

there is the matter of being a public servant and not being unionized at 3x pay, and also military gets much lower pay and less job security

------------------------------------
so there is no bribery and blackmail involved, no, no bribe moneys

lawyers and corrupt polititians certainly will take advantage of tax money and send it that way to keep a pyramid scheme of self decided pay going

better is to give them more freedom to do the job as they see fit, better job cond, and not too much incentive not to find a different job if they are blackmailed to break the law to keep their pay

understand ?

in early law it was illegal to use militia to force people into trials (however, there was auctionign of goods and imprisonment of those who refused to come to trial if a jail sentence was normal or in certain tampering cases)

-------------------------
in the end a county gov should live off the success of funds, not off of causing others to fail. for obvious reasons.

there should be a law of domestic goods pride, made in usa, that gov should actually buy made in usa products or live without

incentive programming is a bitch, in general. and that's a patent scholastic fact

the higher up you go the closer you are to the door.

if there is no wiggle room (if the economy is tight as an ant ass) then things are a continual misery of king of the hill perfection blame games etc

there needs to be wide berth for people to be productive without being harassed, to make mistakes and continue to a next day to still work

------------------------------
the live or die first mistake your fired then later dead ? boss is King ? that rumor is promoted by the rich to support they laziness and greed, and is un-Constitutional, the Constitution nowhere supports Kings anywhere in the USA, publicly speaking at least

"the rich need poor courts" -jh

Here's the Salaray Matrix
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/hr/pay-plan/fy13/oplan13.pdf

I say if they don't like it... though. There are thousands of well qualified veterans who are returning home that would be very suitable for these positions.

I have the answer...

Have the Police earn commission by solely pulling over and ticketing all the terrible Maryland drivers that stink up Northern Virginia.

ikuryfhgt: wrote

I say if they don't like it... though. There are thousands of well qualified veterans who are returning home that would be very suitable for these positions.

The County is having problems filling the positions. Six new hires to the Police left for other higher paying jobs. within the first week of training. To put people through the process is not cheap and the county will keep spending money.

ikuryfhgt: wrote

I say if they don't like it... though. There are thousands of well qualified veterans who are returning home that would be very suitable for these positions.

The County is having problems filling the positions. Six new hires to the Police left for other higher paying jobs. within the first week of training. To put people through the process is not cheap and the county will keep spending money.

That's right.

You don't hire just ANY veteran to be a cop just BECAUSE they are a veteran. Not all veterans have clean histories with good driving records who could pass a background. You have to find the "good guys" and hire them.

And being a "good guy" is marketable, especially around here where a clearance can mean thousands of dollars extra compensation.

The point is...PD is having a hard time hiring the good guys because we aren't paying them enough. Which has two options: pay more, or hire less qualified people. The latter will lead to PG county type enforcement of our laws.

These problems are very transplantable to the paramedics in the FD... Which if we don't act and pay more, could spiral to a DC type service.

The FCPD is having problems filling the positions because once they get here, they figure out how messed up the higher command staff is. They don't want to work here. They move on quickly. The reputation is quickly getting around and nobody wants to apply here. Nothing will change when you keep promoting incompetents and keep firing all the good officers. Remember, the Command Staff do what the Board of Supervisor want them to do in order to retain their positions and have hopes of getting higher jobs in Fairfax County. Bottom line is that Command Staff makes stupid decisions. Decisions based on self agenda's and political ramifications, and not what SHOULD be done. That reputation is now hurting the FCPD. The smart officers are not sticking around. They are leaving quickly. History also shows that the Board of Supervisors do not give the officers raises. But, they have increased Command Staff Level pay several times.

Bingo Was Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The point is...PD is having a hard time hiring the
> good guys because we aren't paying them enough.
> Which has two options: pay more, or hire less
> qualified people.


Unfortunately, DC police did this in the late 80s and early 90s. Now, anytime a DC police officer gets in trouble, the media and Chief Cathy Lanier blame the loose hiring standards on why they have so many corrupt officers. Ironically, Lanier came in during the relaxed standards as she was a teenage mother with barely a GED.

Bingo Was Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> And being a "good guy" is marketable, especially
> around here where a clearance can mean thousands
> of dollars extra compensation.



Funny isn't it? It's easier to get a TS/SCI with full scope polygraph than it is to get past police hiring standards.

so sad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The FCPD is having problems filling the positions
> because once they get here, they figure out how
> messed up the higher command staff is. They don't
> want to work here. They move on quickly. The
> reputation is quickly getting around and nobody
> wants to apply here. Nothing will change when you
> keep promoting incompetents and keep firing all
> the good officers. Remember, the Command Staff do
> what the Board of Supervisor want them to do in
> order to retain their positions and have hopes of
> getting higher jobs in Fairfax County. Bottom
> line is that Command Staff makes stupid decisions.
> Decisions based on self agenda's and political
> ramifications, and not what SHOULD be done. That
> reputation is now hurting the FCPD. The smart
> officers are not sticking around. They are
> leaving quickly. History also shows that the Board
> of Supervisors do not give the officers raises.
> But, they have increased Command Staff Level pay
> several times.

What are some examples of poor decisions that have been made and who are those in charge that made them?

Instead of a pay raise or housing allowance, how about dedicating a certain amount of housing to local government employees? Maybe some sort of subsidized housing in a nice, upscale apartment complex where the tenants only have to pay $500 or less a month to live there.....

eesh Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Instead of a pay raise or housing allowance, how
> about dedicating a certain amount of housing to
> local government employees? Maybe some sort of
> subsidized housing in a nice, upscale apartment
> complex where the tenants only have to pay $500 or
> less a month to live there.....


That would bleed out a county like Fairfax. We hardly have enough money to keep our schools from teaching on their lawns.

Most cops and firemen tend to have a wife and a family, subsidized apartments isn't going to attract them.

dem bastards don't neeed no raise..only if it is this kinda raise!

hefg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the Salaray Matrix
> http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/hr/pay-plan/fy13/opla
> n13.pdf


I had no idea they were paid so little. Thanks for that link.

who and what? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

There are already plenty of examples on fairfaxunderground and the media. Not going to relist old information. I suggest you keep up. Current police employees can rattle off hundreds of examples for you also.

Oh go fuck yourself. "I've already listed it and suggest you keep up." Sit on a fucking cactus.

We should check with Melissa Ardinger on this issue.

so sad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The FCPD is having problems filling the positions
> because once they get here, they figure out how
> messed up the higher command staff is. They don't
> want to work here. They move on quickly. The
> reputation is quickly getting around and nobody
> wants to apply here. Nothing will change when you
> keep promoting incompetents and keep firing all
> the good officers. Remember, the Command Staff do
> what the Board of Supervisor want them to do in
> order to retain their positions and have hopes of
> getting higher jobs in Fairfax County. Bottom
> line is that Command Staff makes stupid decisions.
> Decisions based on self agenda's and political
> ramifications, and not what SHOULD be done. That
> reputation is now hurting the FCPD. The smart
> officers are not sticking around. They are
> leaving quickly. History also shows that the Board
> of Supervisors do not give the officers raises.
> But, they have increased Command Staff Level pay
> several times.


Written by someone in the know, turds float to the top and idle hands are the devil's work shop. To put it succintly some are morally bankrupt.

can we???? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We should check with Melissa Ardinger on this
> issue.


Who is Melissa Ardinger??

Big Dog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"they don't take cars home so it would look like there was a cop living in your neigborhood"

Really Big Dog??? Then how did this mess happen? http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/1500256.html

Ok so not all cops take their cars home. School resource officers supervisors K9 and people on call. Should another 9/11 occur and police are called into their stations they will be stuck in the same traffic with no lights or siren. I would love a police car parked in my hood cause it would slow traffic down just by parking it on the street.

Big dog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok so not all cops take their cars home. School
> resource officers supervisors K9 and people on
> call. Should another 9/11 occur and police are
> called into their stations they will be stuck in
> the same traffic with no lights or siren. I would
> love a police car parked in my hood cause it would
> slow traffic down just by parking it on the
> street.


Nobody gives a fuck what you would love you whiny, nanny-state, cocksucking prick.

I hope they increase the speed limit in front of your house.

How about this for starters. Line of duty death of a drowned officer where Command Staff level officers were directly responsible because of a failed operation safety plan where the Chief only decided to scape-goat a low level sergeant.(Sergeant was left in limbo for many years in the hopes he would quit. There was no cases against him and he was eventually put back in his position only after his reputation was damaged for no reason.) Minority promotion of unqualified and ridiculous Command Staff level supervisors. Failure to advocate pay and benefits for all officers but the Command Staff level purposely gained 2 separate pay raises for themselves through the Board of Supervisors. District Stations Captains and Majors simply rewording and reworking everyday police functions into laughable operations plans to make themselves look good to justify themselves as being proactive for future promotions. Good smart officers see the incompetence within FCPD and are leaving at an alarming rate. It used to be a great place to work. NOT ANY MORE. It is a place of self agenda, stab you in the back commanders, and do anything for a promotion, and minority special handling. There are many cases where high Level Command Staff have altered the processes which allowed an employee to reasonably fight the unfair practices that they have established and an employee can not longer win grievances when Command Staff and IA simply make up facts and then hide behind the case file since nobody can see it. The bottom line is that the current Command Staff and recent Chiefs of Police have created an environment where FCPD IS A JOKE. And people wonder why officers are quickly leaving. You want specific names. Go to the FCPD website. You can easily search the Major rank up to the Chief.

NO!

FCPD and county workers get enough benefits and paid retirements by the county. Hell teacher only work half a year and make around $60,000 plus.

It must be nice to get three months off every year as a teacher.

Yeah teachers get three month off, not police

so sad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about this for starters. Line of duty death
> of a drowned officer where Command Staff level
> officers were directly responsible because of a
> failed operation safety plan where the Chief only
> decided to scape-goat a low level
> sergeant.(Sergeant was left in limbo for many
> years in the hopes he would quit. There was no
> cases against him and he was eventually put back
> in his position only after his reputation was
> damaged for no reason.) Minority promotion of
> unqualified and ridiculous Command Staff level
> supervisors. Failure to advocate pay and benefits
> for all officers but the Command Staff level
> purposely gained 2 separate pay raises for
> themselves through the Board of Supervisors.
> District Stations Captains and Majors simply
> rewording and reworking everyday police functions
> into laughable operations plans to make themselves
> look good to justify themselves as being proactive
> for future promotions. Good smart officers see
> the incompetence within FCPD and are leaving at an
> alarming rate. It used to be a great place to
> work. NOT ANY MORE. It is a place of self
> agenda, stab you in the back commanders, and do
> anything for a promotion, and minority special
> handling. There are many cases where high Level
> Command Staff have altered the processes which
> allowed an employee to reasonably fight the unfair
> practices that they have established and an
> employee can not longer win grievances when
> Command Staff and IA simply make up facts and then
> hide behind the case file since nobody can see it.
> The bottom line is that the current Command Staff
> and recent Chiefs of Police have created an
> environment where FCPD IS A JOKE. And people
> wonder why officers are quickly leaving. You want
> specific names. Go to the FCPD website. You can
> easily search the Major rank up to the Chief.


Right on brother, Dive team on the shore watching with their stupid dive command vehicle, but no divers suited up or in the water with Frank.
Fire boat left to go on call leaving the PD boat. Dry suit compromised and should have been noticed by a diver. Helicopter rotor wash and he was not able to stay afloat...............I can go on, but it won't bring Frank back.

So terrible that justice will never be served and many of you mother fuckers should have been fired for dereliction of duty.

I will agree you need a raise, so do teachers deputies firefighters and all other county employees and you should not get any thing more then they get.

And dont you ever refer to citizens as "Civilians". Most of you have never even

served in the military and you are ALL Civilians Not US Armed Forces.

You don't know how many cops have served and how many haven't, much less how many are reservists.

Also, firefighters, teachers, and other county employees have gotten raises when the cops haven't.

And furthermore, learn how to use a fucking comma.

>Also, firefighters, teachers, and other county employees have gotten raises when the cops haven't.


Name it ! Every time county employees have got a raise cops have too. And cops have got raises when others did not. Enough special pander treatment for all!

Cops Firefighters Teachers or County Employees.

And Yes "Most" have never served dont try to BS people. Yes there are officers that have served and some are reserves but most is most.

As said, Stop calling citizens "civilians" like your in the military.

No special raise for police.

You need a comma ? try spelling "Get IS Stright" , GET IT STRIGHT

Yes there are officers that have served
> and some are reserves but most is most.


> You need a comma ? try spelling "Get IS Stright" ,
> GET IT STRIGHT


Irony is ironic.....

In some of those old black and white movies, when something goes wrong

Wha Wha

If all county employees get the same raise every year then why does the fire dept. get 5% raise this year and no one else does

5 % as a COLA or combined with step increase and COLA not everyone gets a step increase every year.

In any event until the 1990's what teachers would get as a COLA was what everyone got. Then came lean years 90 91 92 and special tratment started for some and not others. Step increases were canceled and no COLA.

When money is tight it should be an across the board raise for all at the same %

It could always be work. They could work for the City of Alexandria, who make even less.

I will give the FCPD police some money out of my ATM machine as long as we're being redundant.

When you are hired as a new officer there is a pay scale that shows how much you earn. Throughout your career at certain defined intervals you get a 5 percent increase. It is called a step increase. New officers were told and people being hired today are still being told that the can expect the step increases as defined in the pay scale. The problem is that the step increases have been frozen several times over the past few years and many younger officers haven't gotten the increases they were essentially promised. The end result is that younger officers are leaving fairfax and getting hired elsewhere. It's tough on young officers who are trying to afford the costs associated with having children, buying homes, etc.... The ultimate burden will be born by communities as the best candidates will take federal law enforcement jobs or positions in other jurisdictions.

And partly because of the Command Staff level failure to advocate pay and benefits for all police officers but the Command Staff level purposely gained 2 separate pay raises for themselves through the Board of Supervisors. GOOD LOOKING OUT FOR THEMSELVES ONLY. And lets not get started with the Board of Supervisors voting themselves pay raises when nobody else got them.

That police officers dont have "pay for preformance." General County employees had step increases too, then came PFP. Those who were at the top step did alright they got a raise that brought them up to full top pay and a little bonus that did not count however toward retirement.

Those that have come along since have done better in their early years with the county as they have come in at a higher pay not at step 2 or step 1. But they will be in the same market rate deal as older emplyees as time goes on.

Those who had been here many have never hit the top pay and never will as the market rate increases and their still short of top. If they go out on retirement they will do so at less then top. With the steps everyone who had been working all got out at top pay and so do police and firefighters, deputies.

Non County Taxpayers may reply to this thread as "Be Glad and Happy you've got a job at all" Gratis. Extra points for being a PO'd federal govt employee disgrunted taxpayer who also get step increases and take about 6 years to go from the lowest to highest step instead of the 15 years it takes in FX and make at least 20 K more a year for anythiung they do.

"The FCPD is having problems filling the positions because once they get here, they figure out how messed up the higher command staff is. They don't want to work here. They move on quickly. The reputation is quickly getting around and nobody wants to apply here. Nothing will change when you keep promoting incompetents and keep firing all the good officers. Remember, the Command Staff do what the Board of Supervisor want them to do in order to retain their positions and have hopes of getting higher jobs in Fairfax County. Bottom line is that Command Staff makes stupid decisions. Decisions based on self agenda's and political ramifications, and not what SHOULD be done. That reputation is now hurting the FCPD. The smart officers are not sticking around. They are leaving quickly. History also shows that the Board of Supervisors do not give the officers raises. But, they have increased Command Staff Level pay several times."


This is exactly the same problem that is occurring in FCPS, but with a slightly different twist. Teaching contracts are being reduced, but nobody at the higher 12 month levels is taking any reduction (plus they get certain "perks" that others don't get). This has created a horrible morale problem and you can bet that the smart teachers are not sticking around. The whole issue with decisions being made based on political and self agenda is rampant and everyone loses when the teachers are not allowed to do what SHOULD be done. It's all very demoralizing. The teachers who are "stuck" for one reason or another (usually too many years in to leave) have learned to shut up and try to focus on their students. Someone above mentioned that you don't have to live in the county to care about your job and I agree with that as well. When you spend a lot of time with people (and that's what police and teachers do), you care about them and about your mission. Place becomes unimportant; it's all about people. Give the officers and teachers at the lower levels the raises or at least give them a higher percentage. The people at the top don't need the money (especially those at the highest salaries) and the future depends on encouraging and supporting those who are coming up. A person should not seek promotion solely for the money in any case---it has corrupted the system.

Beatings will continue until pay improves.

All public safety should get a bump in pay. Over worked, under paid and under appreciated. Everyone hates them until they really need them, then they are the best thing going.

ha ha ha there's plenty of wealth in the county. do whatever we say. we have plenty to offer you

btw those people are such loosers please get them out of site

-----------------------------------
i look at it kinda like child abduction

i'm pretty sure mine was abducted
Attachments:

chuckhoffmann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hobo harry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What do the readers of ffxu believe? Do they
> > deserve it or not?
>
> I am absolutely in favor of giving any police
> officer that works for the Fairfax County Police
> Department and actually lives in Fairfax County a
> raise.
>
> If they live in Prince William, Loudoun, Fauquier,
> et al., no raise, because they're essentially just
> mercenaries, then.
>
> You want to get a bump in pay, you have to be a
> full member of the community you police and
> ostensibly serve. You don't get to fuck off to
> your place in the sticks at the end of the day.


archived333