REALTORS ARE RESPONSBILE IN PART FOR TH COLLAPSE OF THE HOUSING MARKET.

WHY SHOULD A SELLING AGENT GET ANYWHERE CLOSE TO 6% of the full sale of a home?

THINK ABOUT IT.

FURTHER, THERE IS NO REASON A BUYER's AGENT SHOULD GET ANYTHING OTHER THAN 1% of the value of the home.


They do not perform a uniques service. They are in the same category as a shoe salesman, department store sales person, etc.

IF YOU ARE A BUYER< FORCE THE ISSUE - tell your agent 1.5 % for you tops - and negotiate yourn ass off or I reporting you to the Board of realtors.

FOR sellers - tell the agent 3% - not a penny more

Once closing is over, you will never hear from them again.

DONT WASTE MONEY ON REALTORS

Don't know what you experienced to make you so bitter, but no realtor gets the entire fee..it's split between listing agent/listing broker ..selling agent/selling broker. Realtors are expected to be available 24/7, know all the laws connected with your transaction, negotiate the contract, the home inspection and usually the walk-thru. Buyers want it all and sellers don't want to give their house away. We're supposed to keep everyone happy and close the deal.

I agree, many are scam artist and lack any kind of professional training. Real Estate use to be a field where good skills that required professionalism were required to complete contracts. Today most of it is cookie cutter contracts that require memorization with no real skills. Crap they don't even need sales skills, and all that BS that 6% is require to market the house and all that is crap. The most they should make from selling a house is $5K.

Pay nothing moron. Do the realtors work. knock on doors till you find someone interested in selling. Negotiate. Go to a settlement company and make it happen. See all you have to do is stop complaining and do some work.

And, idiot, Realtors facilitate the sale and buying of real estate. They do not manufacture the product. They do not lend money. All they do is bring a buyer and seller together and make it happen. Saying this is their fault is like saying car salesmen should talk you out of buying a car for your own good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2009 05:06AM by dono.

I had a guy at a video game store talk me out of buying a game yesterday... maybe you should talk to him.

Lindy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
. We're supposed to
> keep everyone happy and close the deal.


As I recall, unless you signed a contract as a buyer's agent, you, the realtor, ALWAYS are working for the seller. You are watching out for their best interests and making them happy, not the buyer. It's an illusion that realtors are working for the buyer, usually.

In the end, a realtor is working for their broker and themselves. The buyer comes in a distanct fourth.

Residential Buyer Agent laws in Virginia are very loosely written - there is no real guaranteed protection for the buyer.

A first-time homebuyer friend contracted with a buyer agent who freely admitted that his wife (who worked for the same agency) held the listing and he could probably negotiate a better price. Anyone would see this is a conflict of interest.

This same realtor tried repeatedly to sell her homes that were out of her price range, not a match to her "wish list," and not in neighborhoods she specified - nearly all listings were with the agency where he worked.

After the husband/wife - buyer/seller agent home showing, she said she felt this agent was not representing her best interest and asked to cancel the contract without penalty. He flat out refused and reminded her that she was committed to him for 4 more months (she signed a 6-month contract) and if she bought a home with another agent, she would still be contractually liable to him for his commission.

A real estate attorney wrote a letter for her, and upon receipt of the letter he "miraculously" agreed to cancel the contract that very day.

Buyer agents work well for commercial property - not residential. Out of town residential buyers often use buyer agents because they THINK their best interests are being attended to ... WRONG!

Caution to anyone considering a residential agent (Buyer or Seller Agent) - contract for no more than 30 days, with an option to renew. In ANY market, if any agent can't find/move a house within 30 days, they are just wasting your time.

Craigs List and local message boards often provide better leads than a realtor.

Junes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Craigs List and local message boards often provide
> better leads than a realtor.

I never understood why a buyer needs an agent. I bought my townhouse without one.

Figure out the neighborhoods you are interested in, then keep your eyes open for new listings. Call the seller's agent and arrange a viewing or go to an open house.

If you find a house in your price range that meets your needs, call the seller's agent and make an offer.

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I had a guy at a video game store talk me out of
> buying a game yesterday... maybe you should talk
> to him.

Is the salesman responsible for the video game industry at large? No he isn't. You see what I did there - used your retort within the context of the original argument. I am glad you met a wonderful video game salesperson.

And by the way folks Realtors provide a service. If you dont like them, if you hate them if you think their feet stink - never pay them a dime. Ever. As long as you live. It is really, really reaaaallllly simple.

1. Find someone selling on your own (or find someone buying if you are selling). 2. Go to a settlement Co.
3. Make it happen.

You can then buy an ad in the Post telling all the evil Realtors to bugger off. Maybe the ones complaining here are just stupid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2009 08:23AM by dono.

In Virginia the Buyer doesn't pay anything to be represented in a transaction so why not have a real estate agent there to protect your best interests? The Seller pays for the Buyer's representation. There are numerous reasons as to why you should use a realtor when purchasing or selling a home. Maybe you should contact a reliable agent that isn't just in it for the money.

Realtor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In Virginia the Buyer doesn't pay anything to be
> represented in a transaction so why not have a
> real estate agent there to protect your best
> interests? The Seller pays for the Buyer's
> representation. There are numerous reasons as to
> why you should use a realtor when purchasing or
> selling a home. Maybe you should contact a
> reliable agent that isn't just in it for the
> money.

In every state, the buyer pays for everything, or didn't they teach you that in REALTOR school? Oh, I guess they did, but they also taught you to continue representing the real estate agent business like it is some necessary and special business that only a select few can even comprehend and nobody could ever do without.

I know technically, the seller pays the commission, and the commission gets split between the buyer's agent and the seller's agent (or actually, the broker takes the majority and splits the crumbs between BA and SA). But that's like saying the car dealer pays the salesman's commission, so I shouldn't worry about how much that costs. Even though if I'm the buyer, I'm the one shelling out the cash.

Why use a buyer's agent? Because you don't know how to arrange a mortgage and show up at the settlement company to sign 30 pages of documents? Why not negotiate the price of the house down by not having to include the buyer's agent's commission in the sale price? Sellers "pay" the commission by raising their asking price slightly to cover it. They pay the commission out of the proceeds of the sale of the house, so if they don't have to pay as much commission, they'll be happy to lower the price and split the difference.

Real Estate Agents are a necessity to a point. And that point should be 2% -

1 point to each side.


The more people insist, the more the market will change.

6% is nothing.... you buy a house and the agent/realty company gets 6%


if you win a lawsuit and win a cool million, your lawyer gets one third of that!

not to mention the governemt.... if you win the lottery, say 10 million, the
IRS also gets 1/3 in taxes.... not really fair... is it? :)

Like I said it is OKAY to hate real estate agents (salespersons and brokers). You can hate garbage persons too for all anyone cares. As to what they are worth - its what people are willing to pay them. I feel like I am beating a dead horse here but EVERYTHING is negotiable. When you enter into a contract offer to pay them $50.00 if you want. Offer to have them pay YOU for a listing. You think they are worthless and stupid why not test your theory? The worst they can do is say 'no.'

Though commission rates in various regions differ there is often a 'usual and customary' rate. In this area it is 5%-6% of the sales price as stipulated in the listing agreement between the seller and their agent. Sellers and buyers can arrange (via a valid written contract) the amount of money they wish their agent(s) (their true fiduciary agent that is) to receive. Agents cannot collude to 'make' buyers and sellers pay a certain amount - that is price-fixing and that is illegal.

That said, a true buyer's agent can be great for a buyer. You can use them to keep an eye on the market. Look for new listings and send you a report every day. MLS has a lot of valuable information (how long has it been listed; was it recently sold; any and all disclaimers on a property). Save your time looking around. Arrange to pay them directly as the buyer and screw the owner all you want. Your agent will be YOUR fiduciary. Pick an agent with zero listings and lots of experience (if you can find one). Make sure they work for a firm that only does buyer's rep. work (if you can). If you are worried that commission compensation may cloud the objectiveness of your Buyer Agent talk to them about it. Come up with a reasonable hourly, weekly, monthly compensation or fixed fee they agree to. You will get what you pay for.

If you want to pay someone $6,000 in fees to sell or buy a $600,000 house you will get about 50 to 300 hours from them depending on experience. You want someone willing to work for $20.00/hr. to handle your $600,000 house that is your business. Maybe an agent whom is now a stay-at-home parent would do this when they had time. If you were in no hurry that could be a win-win. If you have to move the meat, be prepared to pony-up some cash to motivate a sale.

If you are selling, the odds are stacked in your favor. Absent a formal written agreement to the contrary and disclosure to all parties both the Broker (and their salespersons) and the Cooperating Broker (and their salespersons) have a fiduciary obligation to the owner (to get the highest price at the best terms for the owner). They must treat the 'customer' (buyer) 'fairly' but its buyer beware.

Also bear in mind that this is a regulated industry. If you feel you have been badly represented, lied to, cheated etc... contact the Real Estate Board in Richmond, VA http://www.dpor.virginia.gov/dporweb/reb_main.cfm. Check on licensees, complaints or log a complaint. Sweet Jesus the agents and brokers will crap their collective pants if your complaint has merit.

I was a commercial broker for 15 years and a salesperson 3 years before that. Though I never did any residential transactions (other than my own residence) I can assure you they make all the agents aware of the laws and ALL the laws are written to 'protect the public.' That is YOU.

Finally, yes many (possibly the majority) of real estate agents (including those whom belong to the Realtors Association) are annoying and sort of yucky. I got out of the business because of the bad PR and the fact that the bad PR is deserved. Professionals whom 'work on the cum' tend to be semi-to-major sociopaths. Ends justify the means types. Gross.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2009 10:52PM by dono.

Bob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In every state, the buyer pays for everything, or
> didn't they teach you that in REALTOR school? Oh,
> I guess they did, but they also taught you to
> continue representing the real estate agent
> business like it is some necessary and special
> business that only a select few can even
> comprehend and nobody could ever do without.

What are you talking about? The buyer pays for the buyer's expenses related to the real estate title transfer.

Why would you expect the seller to pay for the buyer's loan fees, taxes, insurance, title transfer fees, etal?

dono Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Like I said it is OKAY to hate real estate agents

The fundamental problem is that the buyers agent looks free to the buyer - and so there is no short term disincentive for a buyer to use one.

As a result its the buyer who sets the floor on the cost of the agents - and why would any selling agent do all the work for 1% only to have to give 3% to the buyers agent

In reality, that means that 6% of the sale price is added on to mortgages and paid back over the length of the mortgages - but worse than that it gets ratcheted into the 'cost' of the house going forward because sellers are loath to take a 6% hit and must continuously drive up prices accordingly . After 3 sales, 20% of the 'cost/value' of the house has been extracted by realtors and added into long term consumer debt.

As we've seen, this accelerates slowdowns in the market because as prices stall or fall, sellers can't afford to take a 6% real hit,

The net result is boom and bust in house prices and mushrooming consumer debt - will all the profits going to realtors

In effect, it is likely that over 20% of consumer mortgage debt in actually due to successive sets of realtor fees.

So there seem to be two possible options for change:

1. Wait for the industry to be reshaped by market pressures, which doesn't seem to be happening

2. Regulation on pricing or more open access to encourage a diversity of market entrants operating in different ways

3. Banks should refuse to engineer realtor fees into mortgages e.g. the buyer should be forced to absorb the realtor costs immediately rather than rolling into the mortage - you shouldn't be able to get a mortgage above

available mortgage = (sale price - risk buffer - realtor costs)

This would moderate buyers willingness to overpay for buying agents

I quite like 3.

Junes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bob Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In every state, the buyer pays for everything,
> or
> > didn't they teach you that in REALTOR school?
> Oh,
> > I guess they did, but they also taught you to
> > continue representing the real estate agent
> > business like it is some necessary and special
> > business that only a select few can even
> > comprehend and nobody could ever do without.
>
> What are you talking about? The buyer pays for
> the buyer's expenses related to the real estate
> title transfer.
>
> Why would you expect the seller to pay for the
> buyer's loan fees, taxes, insurance, title
> transfer fees, etal?


All negotiable.

It is 'usual and customary' for the Listing commission to be paid by the seller to the Seller's Agent. If a Cooperating broker is involved, the Seller's agent usually 'splits' the commission with the Co-op broker based on the terms of the Listing Agreement and/or Commission Agreement between the Listing Agent and Cooperative Agent.

In normal market conditions the 'customer pays the freight'. Bob is generally correct. Seller's costs (e.g. commissions) are paid through the proceeds of the sale and those funds come from or are made possible by the buyer. No buyer, no sale. No sale, no proceeds. The mechanism of payment vis-a-vis the settlement sheet does divide from whom the monies are taken but ultimately its all built into the cost of the house.

With houses deflating in value we are in the unusual territory of sellers coming out of pocket to sell their houses. They are paying off the mortgage AND contributing cash to sweeten the deal or simply cover the debt on the property. It can be said, now, that the settlement sheet is more than just the the buyer provides the money for payment of everything. A real sh*& sandwich for first-time buyers that purchased at the height of the market and now need to sell.

dono - Would there be any advantage to using a buyer's agent if I was only looking at new construction? Seems to me that the builder is not able to negotiate much because of fair housing laws, so there would be no additional cost to me at either end.

leeches Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dono Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Like I said it is OKAY to hate real estate
> agents
>
> The fundamental problem is that the buyers agent
> looks free to the buyer - and so there is no short
> term disincentive for a buyer to use one.
>
> As a result its the buyer who sets the floor ?on
> the cost of the agents - and why would any selling
> agent do all the work? for 1% only to have to give
> 3% to the buyers agent they do not have to. The sellers agent typically sets the commission amount and split in the Listing Agreement. They can set the commission amount at any amount or split they and the seller agree to.
>
> In reality, that means that 6% of the sale price
> is added on to mortgages and paid back over the
> length of the mortgages - but worse than that it
> gets ratcheted into the 'cost' of the house going
> forward because sellers are loath to take a 6% hit
> and must continuously drive up prices accordinglyabsent some monopoly, buyers set the market rate - a.k.a 'what the market is willing to bear. Sellers today are 'loath to take a loss, but they don't have a choice in the matter if they need to sell
> . After 3 sales, 20% of the 'cost/value' of the
> house has been extracted by realtors and added
> into long term consumer debt you mean 'they drink your milkshake?' http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=i%20drink%20your%20milkshake&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#.
>
> As we've seen, this accelerates slowdowns in the
> market because as prices stall or fall, sellers
> can't afford to take a 6% real hit lol, you mean they cannot afford NOT to take the hit (if they want to sell),
>
> The net result is boom and bust in house prices
> and mushrooming consumer debt - will all the
> profits going to realtorslol, what do YOU work for? Dog biscuits? They work for money like everyone else. If you cannot afford a broker do not pay one. If you do not like real estate as an investment invest in gold (commissions there too) or stocks (commissions there too), or milk futures (commissions there too), or go to Vegas
>
> In effect, it is likely that over 20% of consumer
> mortgage debt in actually due to successive sets
> of realtor fees. I would check your math. Over time I think the algorithm you have set up I think the amount would be closer to 99.99% (after 100 years or so).
>
> So there seem to be two possible options for
> change:
>
> 1. Wait for the industry to be reshaped by market
> pressures, which doesn't seem to be happening Free Market Capitalism - yuck
>
> 2. Regulation on pricing or more open access to
> encourage a diversity of market entrants operating
> in different ways okay, I get 'regulating prices' - government sets a standard rate per acre and per bathroom for houses; 'more open access' ? to what by whom? You mean like letting just anyone buy real estate. Oh wait, anyone can buy real estate. 'a diversity of market entrants operating in different ways' I think I actually just got less intelligent reading that!
>
> 3. Banks should refuse to engineer bridge-to-nowhere realtor fees
> into mortgages e.g. the buyer should be forced to
> absorb the realtor costs immediately rather than
> rolling into the mortage - you shouldn't be able
> to get a mortgage above yeah, its called a 'down payment' - you know that little $50,000 - $100,000 most of the wasteful and moronic 'buyers' getting a mortgage are required by the banks to pay them up front IN CASH
>
> available mortgage = (sale price - risk buffer lol-
> realtor costs)see above under 'downpayment'
>
> This would moderate buyers willingness to overpay
> for buying agents you see that is the beauty of the 'buyers' evil plan - they just keep buying and buying real estate so that the real estate agent fees cause a collapse ('bust') and then then buy, buy, buy at very low prices!
>
> I quite like 3.

Why not make all commission based fees illegal across the board for all investments, products and services. If your argument holds water, commission based fees are non-value-added and usury in general. We live in a Republic. Why not legislate your concept into law? Im not opposed to that.

Salaried sales professionals with none of their compensation directly based on sales amount or volume. The money would still have to come from somewhere. I suspect you would propose a regulation of the amount one could earn in the marketing and selling of an investment, product or commodity. Likely the only way to do that would be to nationalize the industry(ies). I mean you cannot legislate that an executive, bus driver, farmer can only make $xxx,xxx right. You can legislate caps for government employees.

So if investors in Real Estate choose to engage the services of a professional for the sale of their property they would be prohibited from compensating based on a percentage basis. I am sure many agents would breath easier knowing they are to be paid whether a sale occurs or not. Money, though, from somewhere would be needed to pay the regulated costs of service.

Perhaps outlaw fees from the sale of investments, products or services altogether. If it is true that in all or even some cases one can prove they are nothing more than inflation of valuation for the enrichment of service providers, make it against the law. In the case of Real Estate investment limit fees to assessment and recordation fees needed by the government - period. No bank fees, no brokerage fees, nothing. That way the burden of these fees would no longer effect (diminish or inflate) the value of the investment.

Of course this all assumes that commissions are required in real estate transactions. They are not. Commissions are NOT required by law in any states or territories. See there, free transactions for everyone.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2009 05:41PM by dono.

Hate to say it but new construction/developers can rape you the worst. Mostly because they see unrepresented buyers as a one shot deal. I mean if they screw a buyer an agent brings to them and the buyer knows he got screwed they will get a reputation. Agents do not like to have unhappy buyers, sellers whatever.

That said a lawyer specializing in residential real estate can help you avoid a nightmare contractually but probably will not help you understand market prices or standard concessions. I would definitely, at a minimum check with the BBB, and local consumer affairs offices for the developer's history. If any houses/condos have been built and are occupied by owners go talk to the owners. Ask about their experience. You can check county records to see what other houses/units sold for.

Fair housing laws are civil rights legislation protecting you from discrimination, usury interest charges, block-busting, redlining. They apply equally to developers and real estate agents (though private sellers have some latitude in some areas of the laws). Fair housing laws do not protect you from getting ripped off by; open ended pricing, outrageous fees, poor workmanship, liability, open-ended time line for the deliver of premises, bankruptcy by the developer at any point after you enter into a contract, fraud, or any performance by the developer expressed or implied.

Beware of everything. Developers are not your friends and times are very tough right now.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/2009 10:00PM by dono.

Housing Prices to Continue to Fall (because of realtors) http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/housing-prices-arent-done-dropping-ye

I've had one great experience with a builder (Edw R Carr) who took care of every whim no matter how small both before and after the sale, and another (I'll keep the name to myself) who could barely be reached after closing. I didn't use an agent either time. I did use a lawyer who added amendments to the contracts, which both builders accepted without debate.

My next home will be much more expensive, so I'm debating with myself whether to use an agent to help negotiate. I was told by one builder's sales lady that if the agent comes with me the first time I visit, and signs their name in the book, then they are due a commission; otherwise the builder will not pay a commission if I decide later to bring an agent with me. So it looks like this decision must be made up front. The sales lady said that they don't care whether they have to pay a commission -- that does not affect any of their prices/incentives. True statement?

Aside from what you said earler about builders/developers wanting to keep a good reputation among agents, what can an agent do for me? The builders seem more than happy to keep me informed of all the costs, options, and incentives as they change, and financing is not an issue. And is the service really "free" to me? Seems if it was then every buyer would use their own agent.

Buyer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've had one great experience with a builder (Edw
> R Carr) who took care of every whim no matter how
> small both before and after the sale, and another
> (I'll keep the name to myself) who could barely be
> reached after closing. I didn't use an agent
> either time. I did use a lawyer who added
> amendments to the contracts, which both builders
> accepted without debate.
>
> My next home will be much more expensive, so I'm
> debating with myself whether to use an agent to
> help negotiate. I was told by one builder's sales
> lady that if the agent comes with me the first
> time I visit, and signs their name in the book,
> then they are due a commission; otherwise the
> builder will not pay a commission if I decide
> later to bring an agent with me.

This an argument for 'Procuring Cause' the mechanism by which right to commission is often determined. Kind of frightening but true that some brokers only have to 'register' a prospect (you) to get paid. If you go direct the 'sales agent' will make more Cash so he/she prefer 'direct deals.' So much so they will bs you into believing they wont pay your agent unless they showed up the first time. It certainly is their option at that point. As buyer though, you can say that you decided not to go it alone and want your agent paid as a co-operating broker or you will simply go elsewhere. Now you are forcing the sales agent the prospect of less commission or no commission. I would be surprised if they said no, no way are we paying your agent. Whatever make sure you and the agent get it in writing before you even start to negotiate. It is really simple - just ask that they sign a commission agreement with your agent before you start negotiating. Otherwise they could just screw you and your agent down the road

So it looks like this decision must be made up front

Generally speaking you look better if you make the decision up front - you look more organized and you present your agent in a positive light. However, if you have visited a developer without you agent already I would not adopt that attitude - you are the buyer, you make the calls. Refusing to pay your agent because they didn't sign a guest book is a silly way to frame your negotiating power. 'Say I want you to, now. You want me as a customer, this is what I want you to do to start. See, denying you an agent of your own helps them in lots of ways. The developer will save a 1% or so, the sales agent will gain 1-3% depending on their listing agreement. Also cutting out an agent on your side makes it THEM (the pros) vs. YOU (the Joe). Personally, I would be very wary of them if they say no. That said, any buyer agent worth their salt could explain this to you. If they haven't or cannot they might not be right for you they are either pussies or not true buyer agents.

The sales
> lady said that they don't care whether they have
> to pay a commission -- that does not affect any of
> their prices/incentives. True statement? The key word here is 'saleslady' Developers do not have to hire licensed real estate agents to represent them (private citizens can pay anybody they want but you need a license to collect compensation for any 'act of real estate;' unless you are working for a developer). If they have someone working hourly it may not change that persons compensation. In most cases there is a % bonus at the very least. If it is a listing broker it can mean a big difference. I think in most cases they do care because the agent for the seller (or possibly sales employee of the developer) usually get more compensation for deals without an outside agent. Most listing agreements are '4% to the sellers broker if only one agent; 2% to the sellers agent and 3% to the buyers agent if there is a co-operating broker.' Hell, for a house costing $750,000 that is $14,000 vs. $28,000 difference to the sellers Broker. That is real money and all they have to do is sort of intimidate you in the beginning to get it. True though that the developer probably does not care too much either way as they only pay $7,500 more for the extra broker. Besides spreading the wealth with other brokers is good for business...
>
> Aside from what you said earler about
> builders/developers wanting to keep a good
> reputation among agents, what can an agent do for
> me? The builders seem more than happy to keep me
> informed of all the costs, options, and incentives
> as they change, and financing is not an issue.
> And is the service really "free" to me? Seems if
> it was then every buyer would use their own agent. of course this all depends on the agent(s) and the developer. A good buyer agent can provide you with leverage by keeping competing properties in the negotiations. Even if you have already made up your mind the agent can help keep that a secret and advertise to the developer the other deals out there 'you are considering.' A true buyer's agent can work with your lawyer to fill the negotiations with lots of goodies for you. You may not get them all but you dont know unless you ask. You can do this on your own too. I am just saying that an agent on your side could help. By the way, you can ask your agent to kick in part of their commission to your side of the balance sheet. If you only want negotiation advise I am sure they would, by written agreement, split the commission - especially if you found the property on your own.

This poster is just another example of a person projecting anger in the wrong direction. A realtor is hired with their fees and commissions stated up front. There are sometimes negotiations to lower their commissions during the offer process, but they never go up. It's simple, if you don't like the terms, don't hire them.

You say "why should a realtor make 6%".
This is the same mentality that gets people hot and bothered about CEOs making "crazy" money. As long as an investor is making money, they could care less how the company is run, only when they start losing money do they start complaining about CEO salaries and bonus packages. They didn't get there overnight.

It seems common sense is getting rare...

dono Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pay nothing moron. Do the realtors work. knock
> on doors till you find someone interested in
> selling. Negotiate. Go to a settlement company
> and make it happen. See all you have to do is
> stop complaining and do some work.
>
> And, idiot, Realtors facilitate the sale and
> buying of real estate. They do not manufacture
> the product. They do not lend money. All they do
> is bring a buyer and seller together and make it
> happen. Saying this is their fault is like saying
> car salesmen should talk you out of buying a car
> for your own good.


Agree, do not blame the realtors, they were just riding the Economic "gravy train" like everyone else. I would agree, however, that paying $30,000 for the sale of a $500,000 house in an up market, when houses were selling themselves, is high. Finding buyers in the current market may be a different story.

REALTORS SHOULD GET 1% each.

If a house sells for 500,000 they would each get 2500

THink about it - if each puts in 50 hours each (doubtful), they each make $50 per hour.


WHy should a real estate agent make more than $50 an hour.

Better yet, force them to account for their time.

Lindy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't know what you experienced to make you so
> bitter, but no realtor gets the entire fee..it's
> split between listing agent/listing broker
> ..selling agent/selling broker.


Bullshit. 6% of the selling price goes to the selling agent. From there they typically split it with the buyers agent. If I approach the sellers agent directly (I really do NOT need a buyers agent), they keep the full 6%. So if I buy a $400k house, that sleazy worthless agent is paid a $24k commission. And for what? Faxing a fucking paper and opening a door? Jesus Christ doctors and lawyers don't charge hourly rates anywhere even close to what agents charge divided by the time they devote to their clients.

So should I hire a buyer's agent for $12k? Or should I pay less than a thousand dollars for a quality RE attorney and home inspector? Gee, let me think. $12k to sleazy uneducated lazy RE agent... or $1k to certified, educated attorney and my pick of home inspector? Which will it be?

Realtors are worthless and need to be flushed out of the system. Fortunately as housing prices continue to tumble, this will happen.

Another thing that pisses me off. You realtors and agents cannot stop saying "now's a great time to buy". Even though you don't know the first fucking thing about the markets. Guaranteed anybody saying that right now said the same thing a year ago. If their clients then bought a house with 20% down, that money is gone. Forever. A $500k purchase then is worth $100k now. But the realtor doesn't give a shit. Commissions paid on the purchase equaled $30,000. That is not a typo. For a few hours worth of work, that's what their worthless asses charged the buyer and the seller.

It's extortion, because they know that the clients don't know that the commission is negotiable, and NEVER tell them that it is. In fact, they'll often lie and say it isn't. Of course, the client doesn't know this because the agent is supposed to be their little real estate angel that gives them the skinny on everything. WRONG. They're there to fleece you, plain and simple. And they are very unaccustomed to people knowing any of this, so it sure is fun to run into one of them that treats you like their typical prey. You can make them beet red in about 10 seconds by calling them out on their bullshit.

stinkypooner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lindy Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Don't know what you experienced to make you so
> > bitter, but no realtor gets the entire
> fee..it's
> > split between listing agent/listing broker
> > ..selling agent/selling broker.
>
>
> Bullshit. 6% of the selling price goes to the
> selling agent. From there they typically split it
> with the buyers agent. If I approach the sellers
> agent directly (I really do NOT need a buyers
> agent), they keep the full 6%. So if I buy a
> $400k house, that sleazy worthless agent is paid a
> $24k commission. And for what? Faxing a fucking
> paper and opening a door? Jesus Christ doctors
> and lawyers don't charge hourly rates anywhere
> even close to what agents charge divided by the
> time they devote to their clients.
>
> So should I hire a buyer's agent for $12k? Or
> should I pay less than a thousand dollars for a
> quality RE attorney and home inspector? Gee, let
> me think. $12k to sleazy uneducated lazy RE
> agent... or $1k to certified, educated attorney
> and my pick of home inspector? Which will it be?
>
> Realtors are worthless and need to be flushed out
> of the system. Fortunately as housing prices
> continue to tumble, this will happen.

Stinkypooner,

Got a question. A realtor once told me a buyer has to have a realtor in order to access homes with special locks that on the market. Does a real estate attorney have the same authorization as a RE agent to get in a locked home that is on the market for previewing? Just curious. Thanks.

This tread is stupid !!! If you are so cheap and don't want to pay an agent then sell your house yourself! People really don't care about your opinion about you obviously being a cheap ass and can't afford to pay commission. When you go to work and probably sit on your ass and do nothing do you get paid?? Exactly realtors have to drive you morons around from house to house cause you can't make up your damn mind!!! You probably one of the millions that foreclosed your house anyways!!!

Robin Hood Wrote:
> A realtor once told me a buyer
> has to have a realtor in order to access homes
> with special locks that on the market. Does a
> real estate attorney have the same authorization
> as a RE agent to get in a locked home that is on
> the market for previewing? Just curious. Thanks.


The RE attorney would be used for going over the contracts and paperwork. You'd need a RE license to have lock box access. Doesn't take much money or time to get one. Considering RE agents charge more hourly than lawyers or doctors, they sure don't need a lot of prep time to be "qualified". Or contact the sellers agent and request a viewing. Or wait til the seller hosts an open house.

REALTOR'S are #1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This tread is stupid !!! If you are so cheap and
> don't want to pay an agent then sell your house
> yourself! People really don't care about your
> opinion about you obviously being a cheap ass and
> can't afford to pay commission. When you go to
> work and probably sit on your ass and do nothing
> do you get paid?? Exactly realtors have to drive
> you morons around from house to house cause you
> can't make up your damn mind!!! You probably one
> of the millions that foreclosed your house
> anyways!!!

Nobody should charge $12,000 for driving around, opening a couple doors, and faxing a few papers. Especially not some underqualified two-bit realtor.


So shut your fucking face.

stinkypooner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Robin Hood Wrote:
> > A realtor once told me a buyer
> > has to have a realtor in order to access homes
> > with special locks that on the market. Does a
> > real estate attorney have the same
> authorization
> > as a RE agent to get in a locked home that is
> on
> > the market for previewing? Just curious.
> Thanks.
>
>
> The RE attorney would be used for going over the
> contracts and paperwork. You'd need a RE license
> to have lock box access. Doesn't take much money
> or time to get one. Considering RE agents charge
> more hourly than lawyers or doctors, they sure
> don't need a lot of prep time to be "qualified".
> Or contact the sellers agent and request a
> viewing. Or wait til the seller hosts an open
> house.


Firstly, the lock box keys are distributed by the Association of Realtors so you need to belong to them. Not all real estate agents do. You do however, need a license to belong.

Secondly, Real Estate agents charge more than lawyers or Doctors. Really. Please send me your contact info I would love to work for you. Do you really believe most agents charge hourly. Meaning, you call them and ask them about a listing and they send you a bill for the 15 min. conversation. That would be roughly $75 per call.

How much have you spent already - just curious. I mean having a real estate agent meet you, talk and drive to 2 or 3 homes must cost you, what, $300.00 - $400.00 a pop. Guess after a week or two looking you have spent a few thousand dollars up front out-of-pocket cash (whether you buy or not).

Anyway, I am glad you do the honorable thing and pay each agent an hourly fee promptly after they render service. Even if their rates are in the 100's of dollars an hour it is worth it...

OR is it that you pretend to know how many hours they actually spend on a listing? Yes, you certainly know that. You must do the math. You know 5 min. to put up a sign. 20 min. to answer a few calls and arrange a showing. A couple showings later and you are cashing a $20,000 check for just 5 maybe 10 hours at the most!

What amazes me about morons like you is that, if it was that easy, you would be stupid not to get a license yourself. It is Easy Street after all...

Dunce



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2009 05:29PM by dono.

stinkypooner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another thing that pisses me off. You realtors
> and agents cannot stop saying "now's a great time
> to buy". Even though you don't know the first
> fucking thing about the markets. Guaranteed
> anybody saying that right now said the same thing
> a year ago. If their clients then bought a house
> with 20% down, that money is gone. Forever. A
> $500k purchase then is worth $100k now. But the
> realtor doesn't give a shit. Commissions paid on
> the purchase equaled $30,000. That is not a typo.
> For a few hours worth of work, that's what their
> worthless asses charged the buyer and the seller.
>
>
> It's extortion, because they know that the clients
> don't know that the commission is negotiable, and
> NEVER tell them that it is. In fact, they'll
> often lie and say it isn't. Of course, the client
> doesn't know this because the agent is supposed to
> be their little real estate angel that gives them
> the skinny on everything. WRONG. They're there
> to fleece you, plain and simple. And they are
> very unaccustomed to people knowing any of this,
> so it sure is fun to run into one of them that
> treats you like their typical prey. You can make
> them beet red in about 10 seconds by calling them
> out on their bullshit.


Wow, you really are a Sad and Stupid Victim. Read the threads and learn to Never Pay a Real Estate Agent Again. See there - empowerment. You dont have to cry like a little bitch, just go to work!

REALTORS SHOULD GET 2% Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> REALTORS SHOULD GET 1% each.
>
> If a house sells for 500,000 they would each get
> 2500
>
> THink about it - if each puts in 50 hours each
> (doubtful), they each make $50 per hour.
>
>
> WHy should a real estate agent make more than $50
> an hour.
>
> Better yet, force them to account for their time.

Sounds like you have a winning marketing plan. If what you say is true you would get rich. Why not practice what you preach? You could bill $45 an hour to your clients and they would flock to you given the high prices of agents. You will get rich.

You won't because what you say is not true and you know it. What are you a twenty year old? Your argument is either wrong or an enormous business opportunity. Hurray for Capitalism.

By they way, I support paying the real estate agent NOTHING if you do not want to. NOT ONE DIME. And, I suggest using the money you save to take out ads in the paper explaining exactly how you did it and that you think real estate agents suck dead dog dicks. Really. Why not let it rip?

Oh, wait you can't - because you are a fucking idiot and you couldn't buy an XP without a fucking sales rep.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2009 10:11PM by dono.

For your infomation they dont get full commission... I portion goes to company and they get a portion. If they sell one house and get 12k a year after taxes and shit they got nothing!!! They would have to sell more hosues and houses aint hard to sell!!!


> REALTORS SHOULD GET 1% each.
> If a house sells for 500,000 they would each get
> 2500
> THink about it - if each puts in 50 hours each
> (doubtful), they each make $50 per hour.
> WHy should a real estate agent make more than $50
> an hour.
>


And... Why should CEO get 100k a hour??? Exactly !!! maybe you should go to school and be a realtor??? How about loan officers?? THey make money too!!! hahaha and fat lazy Government Employee's???
> Better yet, force them to account for their time.

Maybe if you typed in ALL CAPS your point would come across better.

dono Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Dunce


Retard, the typical buyer's agent spends no more than ten hours per client. As a buyer, I can do all my own comp work. Just need the waste of life agent to open the fucking door and fax some papers. Not that hard. Easy enough that even a realtor can do it. Their fee doesn't even cover the home inspection, the most important part and only a fraction of what the agent charges. So on my $400k house, the sleazebag charges $12k. For ten hours of work. I'm paying $1200/hr for what exactly?

No, they don't charge hourly. If they did, it would save the client thousands of dollars. Go ahead and defend them. You must be one of them.

Hey Stinkypoon

Why are you wasting your time bitching and whining. It seems pretty simple...Don't use a realtor. There is no law that says you can only buy or sell a home if you use a realtor. It is clear that someone as intelligent as yourself should be able to buy or sell a home on you own.

What is your real issue?

stinypooner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dono Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Dunce
>
>
> Retard, the typical buyer's agent spends no more
> than ten hours per client. As a buyer, I can do
> all my own comp work. Just need the waste of life
> agent to open the fucking door and fax some
> papers. Not that hard. Easy enough that even a
> realtor can do it. Their fee doesn't even cover
> the home inspection, the most important part and
> only a fraction of what the agent charges. So on
> my $400k house, the sleazebag charges $12k. For
> ten hours of work. I'm paying $1200/hr for what
> exactly?
>
> No, they don't charge hourly. If they did, it
> would save the client thousands of dollars. Go
> ahead and defend them. You must be one of them.


God it is hard drilling through the wood with you. Get a pencil and paper out here so you dont forget any of the words to follow...

ok got your supplies?

Here we go: You do not have to pay a real estate agent anything, ever.

(I will wait while you finish writing).

All done? Great lets review - You do not have to pay a real estate agent anything, ever.

That was easy wasnt it. By the way spend as much money as you like taking out adds making signs etc. expressing your dislike of real estate agents. Why not.

OR

Be a stupid, sad victim whom we can all feel so sorry for. I think you just made teh baby Jeasus cry...

stinypooner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dono Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Dunce
>
>
> Retard, the typical buyer's agent spends no more
> than ten hours per client. As a buyer, I can do
> all my own comp work. Just need the waste of life
> agent to open the fucking door and fax some
> papers. Not that hard. Easy enough that even a
> realtor can do it. Their fee doesn't even cover
> the home inspection, the most important part and
> only a fraction of what the agent charges. So on
> my $400k house, the sleazebag charges $12k. For
> ten hours of work. I'm paying $1200/hr for what
> exactly? you are paying that because you are a fucking idiot. My God the only reason unscrupulous agents exist is to fleece little-brains like you. Good. If you are stupid enough to hire an agent and only get 10 hours out of them you (and they) deserve it all. Sucker.
>
> No, they don't charge hourly. If they did, it
> would save the client thousands of dollars. Go
> ahead and defend them. You must be one of them.

Pro Choice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Stinkypoon
>
> Why are you wasting your time bitching and
> whining. It seems pretty simple...Don't use a
> realtor. There is no law that says you can only
> buy or sell a home if you use a realtor. It is
> clear that someone as intelligent as yourself
> should be able to buy or sell a home on you own.
>
> What is your real issue?

I want other people to know they don't need one either. Let the vultures starve. Figure if I can save my fellow man ten thousand dollars, I'll have done a good deed. Why do you care?

Lindy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't know what you experienced to make you so
> bitter, but no realtor gets the entire fee..it's
> split between listing agent/listing broker
> ..selling agent/selling broker. Realtors are
> expected to be available 24/7, know all the laws
> connected with your transaction, negotiate the
> contract, the home inspection and usually the
> walk-thru. Buyers want it all and sellers don't
> want to give their house away. We're supposed to
> keep everyone happy and close the deal.


While I agree that they should get less and they should always be willing to negotiate their fee - especially if you find the house you want - having a realtor is not 100% bad - the knowledgeable realtors can be helpful especially if you are new to the area - we used the same one over a 8 year period - when we first came to area he informed us about "FRT" roofs - we would not have known about that - the second time we sold and bought again he lowered his fee on both closings

Hey stinkypooner

Here is a post from another forum on a different issue. I submit it for your review. Please note the amount of commission for a building sale in Fairfax. Look what the commercial agents make!

Re: Dale is Wrong on Gatehouse II
Posted by: dono ()
Date: February 14, 2009 01:11PM

Here is the 3rd party report on the deal [www.fcps.edu]

I find $189 per square foot a bit high for a vacant 35 yr. old bld. - I am checking on the comps. I suspect the high comps they used included revenue from tenant roles (vs. empty junky bld.) The 'fact' sheet on the FCPS web site cites the fact that $45,000,000 is what the current owner paid 2 years ago - not much to brag about given that was a market high point and prices are on a major downturn.

Oh and for those of you that like to complain about real estate agent fees, Stuabach (now Jones Lang LaSalle) stands to make ~$1.400.000.00 commission off this sale assuming a 3% commission.



...hope no one is standing near pooner's head...

The way to beat these mortgage bastards at their own game is to sell off your furniture and burn your house down. Let them repossess a smoldering pile of ashes.
If everyone did this we could all hasten the downfall of these predatory bastards. Then we bring out the guillotines!

dono Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey stinkypooner
>
> Here is a post from another forum on a different
> issue. I submit it for your review. Please note
> the amount of commission for a building sale in
> Fairfax. Look what the commercial agents make!
>
> Re: Dale is Wrong on Gatehouse II
> Posted by: dono ()
> Date: February 14, 2009 01:11PM
>
> Here is the 3rd party report on the deal
>
> I find $189 per square foot a bit high for a
> vacant 35 yr. old bld. - I am checking on the
> comps. I suspect the high comps they used included
> revenue from tenant roles (vs. empty junky bld.)
> The 'fact' sheet on the FCPS web site cites the
> fact that $45,000,000 is what the current owner
> paid 2 years ago - not much to brag about given
> that was a market high point and prices are on a
> major downturn.
>
> Oh and for those of you that like to complain
> about real estate agent fees, Stuabach (now Jones
> Lang LaSalle) stands to make ~$1.400.000.00
> commission off this sale assuming a 3%
> commission.
>
>
>
> ...hope no one is standing
> near pooner's head...


I'm not familiar with CRE. Perhaps their agents need advanced degrees. Or perhaps like residential RE they're just overpaid, overcharging sleazebags.

This certainly doesn't alter my perception of agents positively.

stinkypooner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dono Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hey stinkypooner
> >
> > Here is a post from another forum on a
> different
> > issue. I submit it for your review. Please
> note
> > the amount of commission for a building sale in
> > Fairfax. Look what the commercial agents make!
> >
> > Re: Dale is Wrong on Gatehouse II
> > Posted by: dono ()
> > Date: February 14, 2009 01:11PM
> >
> > Here is the 3rd party report on the deal
> >
> > I find $189 per square foot a bit high for a
> > vacant 35 yr. old bld. - I am checking on the
> > comps. I suspect the high comps they used
> included
> > revenue from tenant roles (vs. empty junky
> bld.)
> > The 'fact' sheet on the FCPS web site cites the
> > fact that $45,000,000 is what the current owner
> > paid 2 years ago - not much to brag about given
> > that was a market high point and prices are on
> a
> > major downturn.
> >
> > Oh and for those of you that like to complain
> > about real estate agent fees, Stuabach (now
> Jones
> > Lang LaSalle) stands to make ~$1.400.000.00
> > commission off this sale assuming a 3%
> > commission.
> >
> >
> >
> > ...hope no one is standing
> > near pooner's head...
>
>
> I'm not familiar with CRE. Perhaps their agents
> need advanced degrees. Or perhaps like
> residential RE they're just overpaid, overcharging
> sleazebags.
>
> This certainly doesn't alter my perception of
> agents positively.


Nope Commercial Real Estate agents need nothing more than residential. I dont think you even need a high school degree.