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Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
See here.
Seems it was an ALJ, not a real judge. I have no idea how precedence works in administrative law courts. I think that the Nationals have a good chance of ending up in the same court, perhaps even getting the same judge. Had it not been before an ALJ they would probably have been in a different circuit and no real precedent would have been set.
Welcome to Fairfax Underground, a project site designed to improve communication among residents of Fairfax County, VA. Feel free to post anything Northern Virginia residents would find interesting.
FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
Elliott Ness
()
Date: March 17, 2014 01:02PM
FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
WASHINGTON (AP) - A small, four-rotor drone hovered over Washington Nationals players for a few days during spring training in Florida last month, taking publicity photos impossible for a human photographer to capture.
But no one got the Federal Aviation Administration's permission first.
"No, we didn't get it cleared, but we don't get our pop flies cleared either and those go higher than this thing did," a team official said when contacted by The Associated Press.
The drone flights ceased the next day. The official wasn't authorized to speak publicly and asked not to be named.
The FAA bars commercial use of drones, no matter how seemingly benign. The lone exception is an oil company that has been granted permission to fly drones over the Arctic Ocean, and it took an act of Congress to win that concession.
FAA officials say rules to address the special safety challenges associated with unmanned aircraft need to be in place before they can share the sky with manned aircraft. The agency has worked on those regulations for the past decade and is still months and possibly years away from issuing final rules for small drones, which are defined as those weighing less than 55 pounds. Rules for larger drones are even further off.
But tempting technology and an eager marketplace are outrunning the aviation agency's best intentions. Photographers, real estate agents, moviemakers and others are hurrying to embrace the technology. Drones have been used to photograph the two apartment buildings that collapsed in New York City this past week and a car crash in Connecticut. The AP, in fact, is one of several news organizations studying the possible use of drones.
Unless FAA officials receive a complaint or chance upon a news story that mentions drone flights, they have little ability to find out about violations. The ban was further undercut this month when a federal judge dismissed the only fine the FAA has imposed on a commercial drone operator. The judge said the agency can't enforce regulations that don't exist.
The FAA, which contends it controls access to the national air space, has appealed.
The use of commercial drones, most of them small, is starting to spread to countries where authorities have decided the aircraft presents little threat if operators follow a few safety rules.
The drone industry and some members of Congress are worried the United States will be one of the last countries, rather than one of the first, to gain the economic benefits of the technology.
"We don't have the luxury of waiting another 20 years," said Paul McDuffee, vice president of drone-maker Insitu of Bingen, Wash., a subsidiary of Boeing. "This industry is exploding. It's getting to the point where it may end up happening with or without the FAA's blessing."
In Japan, the Yamaha Motor Company's RMAX helicopter drones have been spraying crops for 20 years. The radio-controlled drones weighing 140 pounds are cheaper than hiring a plane and are able to more precisely apply fertilizers and pesticides. They fly closer to the ground and their backwash enables the spray to reach the underside of leaves.
The helicopters went into use five years ago in South Korea and last year in Australia.
Television networks use drones to cover cricket matches in Australia. Zookal, a Sydney company that rents textbooks to college students, plans to begin delivering books via drones later this year. The United Arab Emirates has a project underway to see whether government documents like driver's licenses, identity cards and permits can be delivered using small drones.
In the United Kingdom, energy companies use drones to check the undersides of oil platforms for corrosion and repairs, and real estate agents use them to shoot videos of pricey properties. In a publicity stunt last June, a Domino's Pizza franchise in the U.K. posted a YouTube video of a "DomiCopter" drone flying over fields, trees and homes to deliver two pizzas.
But when Lakemaid Beer tried to use a drone to deliver six-packs to ice fishermen on a frozen lake in Minnesota, the FAA grounded the brewskis.
Andreas Raptopoulous, CEO of Matternet in Menlo Park, Calif., predicts that in the near term, there will be more extensive use of drones in impoverished countries than in wealthier nations such as the U.S.
He sees a market for drones to deliver medicines and other critical, small packaged goods to the 1 billion people around the globe who don't have access to roads year-round.
Later this year, Matternet plans to start selling to government and aid organizations a package that includes a drone and two landing pads. On the return trip, the drones can carry blood samples bound for labs and other packages.
Germany's express delivery company Deutsche Post DHL is testing a "Paketkopter" drone that could be used to deliver small, urgently needed goods in hard-to-reach places. Facebook is in talks to buy Titan Aerospace, a maker of solar-powered drone-like satellites, to step up its efforts to provide Internet access to remote parts of the world.
There is also a strong business case for urban drones that can replace truck deliveries of single packages. "If you look at the economic footprint and CO2 emissions," Raptopoulous said, the drone "beats the truck hands down."
Worldwide sales of military and civilian drones will reach an estimated $89 billion over the next decade, according to the Teal Group, an aerospace research company in Fairfax, Va. The FAA estimates as many as 7,500 small commercial drones will be in use within five years once the necessary regulations are in place.
Jim Williams, head of the FAA's drone office, said writing rules for the U.S. is more complex than other nations. The U.S. has far more air traffic than anywhere else and a greater variety of aircraft, from hot air balloons and old-fashioned barnstormers to the most sophisticated airliners and military and business jets. At low altitudes, the concern is a small drone could collide with a helicopter or small plane flown by a recreational pilot.
"It's a different culture in the U.S. and Canada," Williams said in an interview. "People believe they have the right to just jump in their airplane and fly just like they do their car. ... We can't set up a system that puts any of those folks at risk."
Yet the FAA permits hobbyists to fly model aircraft that have so improved in technology that they're little different from small drones. The FAA has issued voluntary guidelines for hobbyists, including staying away from airports, flying no higher than 400 feet and staying within the line of sight of the operator.
"You could go off to the hobby shop, buy a little remote control helicopter and fly it to your heart's content," McDuffee said. "But if you hung a digital camera on that, took pictures of your neighbor's roof and sold those pictures to him or her, now you are in business and you're flying" an unmanned aircraft system.
Sean Cassidy, senior vice president at the Air Line Pilots Association, said he worries that commercial drone users will be less willing than hobbyists to abide by restrictions because of economic pressures.
Drones are "becoming so prevalent and affordable that something has to be done to make sure they're not being used in a reckless manner," he, said. "Even a fairly small (drone), if the person flying this thing is unaware of their surroundings ... there could be very dire consequences."
Read more: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/03/faa-caps-did-not-have-permission-to-use-drone-to-photograph-spring-training-101225.html#ixzz2wExlYfXH
Follow us: @ABC7News on Twitter | WJLATV on Facebook
This commercial drone took aerial photos of the building explosion in New York City recently. (AP photo)
Attachments:
WASHINGTON (AP) - A small, four-rotor drone hovered over Washington Nationals players for a few days during spring training in Florida last month, taking publicity photos impossible for a human photographer to capture.
But no one got the Federal Aviation Administration's permission first.
"No, we didn't get it cleared, but we don't get our pop flies cleared either and those go higher than this thing did," a team official said when contacted by The Associated Press.
The drone flights ceased the next day. The official wasn't authorized to speak publicly and asked not to be named.
The FAA bars commercial use of drones, no matter how seemingly benign. The lone exception is an oil company that has been granted permission to fly drones over the Arctic Ocean, and it took an act of Congress to win that concession.
FAA officials say rules to address the special safety challenges associated with unmanned aircraft need to be in place before they can share the sky with manned aircraft. The agency has worked on those regulations for the past decade and is still months and possibly years away from issuing final rules for small drones, which are defined as those weighing less than 55 pounds. Rules for larger drones are even further off.
But tempting technology and an eager marketplace are outrunning the aviation agency's best intentions. Photographers, real estate agents, moviemakers and others are hurrying to embrace the technology. Drones have been used to photograph the two apartment buildings that collapsed in New York City this past week and a car crash in Connecticut. The AP, in fact, is one of several news organizations studying the possible use of drones.
Unless FAA officials receive a complaint or chance upon a news story that mentions drone flights, they have little ability to find out about violations. The ban was further undercut this month when a federal judge dismissed the only fine the FAA has imposed on a commercial drone operator. The judge said the agency can't enforce regulations that don't exist.
The FAA, which contends it controls access to the national air space, has appealed.
The use of commercial drones, most of them small, is starting to spread to countries where authorities have decided the aircraft presents little threat if operators follow a few safety rules.
The drone industry and some members of Congress are worried the United States will be one of the last countries, rather than one of the first, to gain the economic benefits of the technology.
"We don't have the luxury of waiting another 20 years," said Paul McDuffee, vice president of drone-maker Insitu of Bingen, Wash., a subsidiary of Boeing. "This industry is exploding. It's getting to the point where it may end up happening with or without the FAA's blessing."
In Japan, the Yamaha Motor Company's RMAX helicopter drones have been spraying crops for 20 years. The radio-controlled drones weighing 140 pounds are cheaper than hiring a plane and are able to more precisely apply fertilizers and pesticides. They fly closer to the ground and their backwash enables the spray to reach the underside of leaves.
The helicopters went into use five years ago in South Korea and last year in Australia.
Television networks use drones to cover cricket matches in Australia. Zookal, a Sydney company that rents textbooks to college students, plans to begin delivering books via drones later this year. The United Arab Emirates has a project underway to see whether government documents like driver's licenses, identity cards and permits can be delivered using small drones.
In the United Kingdom, energy companies use drones to check the undersides of oil platforms for corrosion and repairs, and real estate agents use them to shoot videos of pricey properties. In a publicity stunt last June, a Domino's Pizza franchise in the U.K. posted a YouTube video of a "DomiCopter" drone flying over fields, trees and homes to deliver two pizzas.
But when Lakemaid Beer tried to use a drone to deliver six-packs to ice fishermen on a frozen lake in Minnesota, the FAA grounded the brewskis.
Andreas Raptopoulous, CEO of Matternet in Menlo Park, Calif., predicts that in the near term, there will be more extensive use of drones in impoverished countries than in wealthier nations such as the U.S.
He sees a market for drones to deliver medicines and other critical, small packaged goods to the 1 billion people around the globe who don't have access to roads year-round.
Later this year, Matternet plans to start selling to government and aid organizations a package that includes a drone and two landing pads. On the return trip, the drones can carry blood samples bound for labs and other packages.
Germany's express delivery company Deutsche Post DHL is testing a "Paketkopter" drone that could be used to deliver small, urgently needed goods in hard-to-reach places. Facebook is in talks to buy Titan Aerospace, a maker of solar-powered drone-like satellites, to step up its efforts to provide Internet access to remote parts of the world.
There is also a strong business case for urban drones that can replace truck deliveries of single packages. "If you look at the economic footprint and CO2 emissions," Raptopoulous said, the drone "beats the truck hands down."
Worldwide sales of military and civilian drones will reach an estimated $89 billion over the next decade, according to the Teal Group, an aerospace research company in Fairfax, Va. The FAA estimates as many as 7,500 small commercial drones will be in use within five years once the necessary regulations are in place.
Jim Williams, head of the FAA's drone office, said writing rules for the U.S. is more complex than other nations. The U.S. has far more air traffic than anywhere else and a greater variety of aircraft, from hot air balloons and old-fashioned barnstormers to the most sophisticated airliners and military and business jets. At low altitudes, the concern is a small drone could collide with a helicopter or small plane flown by a recreational pilot.
"It's a different culture in the U.S. and Canada," Williams said in an interview. "People believe they have the right to just jump in their airplane and fly just like they do their car. ... We can't set up a system that puts any of those folks at risk."
Yet the FAA permits hobbyists to fly model aircraft that have so improved in technology that they're little different from small drones. The FAA has issued voluntary guidelines for hobbyists, including staying away from airports, flying no higher than 400 feet and staying within the line of sight of the operator.
"You could go off to the hobby shop, buy a little remote control helicopter and fly it to your heart's content," McDuffee said. "But if you hung a digital camera on that, took pictures of your neighbor's roof and sold those pictures to him or her, now you are in business and you're flying" an unmanned aircraft system.
Sean Cassidy, senior vice president at the Air Line Pilots Association, said he worries that commercial drone users will be less willing than hobbyists to abide by restrictions because of economic pressures.
Drones are "becoming so prevalent and affordable that something has to be done to make sure they're not being used in a reckless manner," he, said. "Even a fairly small (drone), if the person flying this thing is unaware of their surroundings ... there could be very dire consequences."
Read more: http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/03/faa-caps-did-not-have-permission-to-use-drone-to-photograph-spring-training-101225.html#ixzz2wExlYfXH
Follow us: @ABC7News on Twitter | WJLATV on Facebook
This commercial drone took aerial photos of the building explosion in New York City recently. (AP photo)
Attachments:
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
Knostrodamus
()
Date: March 17, 2014 01:07PM
Within 10 years the NFL will stroke a check to Congress and we'll have drones covering professional football...
The only thing that stops or starts anything legally or politically is money. Once there's enough lobbying cash in the "Legalize Drones for Commercial Use" hopper...it'll be a done deal.
The only thing that stops or starts anything legally or politically is money. Once there's enough lobbying cash in the "Legalize Drones for Commercial Use" hopper...it'll be a done deal.
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
Bean brain
()
Date: March 17, 2014 05:52PM
That looks like a DJI Phantom, it's a hobby RC quadcopter.
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
Priapus
()
Date: March 17, 2014 06:02PM
They needed something more subtle
Attachments:
Attachments:
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
wtDtj
()
Date: March 17, 2014 08:43PM
The FAA bars commercial use of drones, no matter how seemingly benign.
hmmm. but they sell them as toys on teh market what's the deal ??
and democrats are using your tax money to upstart private businesses to be suppliers to gov
no wonder why they want to spook you away
----------------------------------
they can be hazardouz to crows, vehicles and even helicopers
they can be armed or even more publicly annoying: have cameras
----------------------
many countries have laws agaisnt amateur use of non-toys that can carry "equipment" and fly at any height
hmmm. but they sell them as toys on teh market what's the deal ??
and democrats are using your tax money to upstart private businesses to be suppliers to gov
no wonder why they want to spook you away
----------------------------------
they can be hazardouz to crows, vehicles and even helicopers
they can be armed or even more publicly annoying: have cameras
----------------------
many countries have laws agaisnt amateur use of non-toys that can carry "equipment" and fly at any height
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
HHMMM
()
Date: March 17, 2014 09:02PM
Was there not just a federal court case where the judge told the FAA to basically FUCK OFF?
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
7JedK
()
Date: March 18, 2014 07:25AM
HHMMM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was there not just a federal court case where the
> judge told the FAA to basically FUCK OFF?
Not that I'm aware of.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was there not just a federal court case where the
> judge told the FAA to basically FUCK OFF?
Not that I'm aware of.
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
Radon's Daughter
()
Date: March 18, 2014 08:20AM
Quote
7JedK Wrote:
HHMMM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was there not just a federal court case where the
> judge told the FAA to basically FUCK OFF?
Not that I'm aware of.
See here.
Seems it was an ALJ, not a real judge. I have no idea how precedence works in administrative law courts. I think that the Nationals have a good chance of ending up in the same court, perhaps even getting the same judge. Had it not been before an ALJ they would probably have been in a different circuit and no real precedent would have been set.
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
7JedK
()
Date: March 18, 2014 08:25AM
Radon's Daughter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> See href="http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/03/10/660
> 03.htm">here.
>
> Seems it was an ALJ, not a real judge. I have no
> idea how precedence works in administrative law
> courts. I think that the Nationals have a good
> chance of ending up in the same court, perhaps
> even getting the same judge. Had it not been
> before an ALJ they would probably have been in a
> different circuit and no real precedent would have
> been set.
Thanks and now for the benefit of the others...
http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/03/10/66003.htm
(CN) - The Federal Aviation Administration lacks authority over unmanned, commercial drones, a judge ruled, nixing a fine against a photographer.
Raphael Pirker had faced a $10,000 FAA penalty after he flew an unmanned model glider aircraft around the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, Va., in 2011.
Pirker had been hired to take overhead video and photographs for the college's medical school advertisements, Fortune.com reported.
Judge Patrick Geraghty with the National Transportation Safety Board dismissed the FAA's suit against Pirker on Thursday.
As a policy statement by the FAA, the 2007 ban is not binding law on the public, Geraghty concluded.
He said the language of the FAA Modernization Re-Authorization and Reform Act, which Congress passed in 2012, reflects that no effective laws on drones were in place at the time.
"The 2012 Act also contains a provision stating that the Administrator, FAA, '... may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft ...', where the model aircraft satisfies the criteria stated therein," Geraghty wrote (ellipses in original). "It is a reasonable inference that this language shows that, at the time of enactment of the 2012 Act, the legislators were of the view there were no effective rules or regulations regulating model aircraft operation, elsewise, rather than calling for enactment of such, the 2032 Act would have called for action to repeal, amend, or modify the existing rules or regulations, and not require a date for issuance of a final rule."
"Aircraft," as defined by the FAA, also never included the smaller, model device that Pinker used, according to the ruling.
Geraghty's ruling is stayed pending an appeal that the FAA filed Friday. Any commercial drone flights in the meantime would still be subject to fines.
"The agency is concerned that this decision could impact the safe operation of the national airspace system and the safety of people and property on the ground," the FAA said in a statement.
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>Quote
7JedK Wrote:
> HHMMM Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Was there not just a federal court case where
> the
> > judge told the FAA to basically FUCK OFF?
>
> Not that I'm aware of.
> See href="http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/03/10/660
> 03.htm">here.
>
> Seems it was an ALJ, not a real judge. I have no
> idea how precedence works in administrative law
> courts. I think that the Nationals have a good
> chance of ending up in the same court, perhaps
> even getting the same judge. Had it not been
> before an ALJ they would probably have been in a
> different circuit and no real precedent would have
> been set.
Thanks and now for the benefit of the others...
http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/03/10/66003.htm
(CN) - The Federal Aviation Administration lacks authority over unmanned, commercial drones, a judge ruled, nixing a fine against a photographer.
Raphael Pirker had faced a $10,000 FAA penalty after he flew an unmanned model glider aircraft around the University of Virginia in Charlottesville, Va., in 2011.
Pirker had been hired to take overhead video and photographs for the college's medical school advertisements, Fortune.com reported.
Judge Patrick Geraghty with the National Transportation Safety Board dismissed the FAA's suit against Pirker on Thursday.
As a policy statement by the FAA, the 2007 ban is not binding law on the public, Geraghty concluded.
He said the language of the FAA Modernization Re-Authorization and Reform Act, which Congress passed in 2012, reflects that no effective laws on drones were in place at the time.
"The 2012 Act also contains a provision stating that the Administrator, FAA, '... may not promulgate any rule or regulation regarding a model aircraft ...', where the model aircraft satisfies the criteria stated therein," Geraghty wrote (ellipses in original). "It is a reasonable inference that this language shows that, at the time of enactment of the 2012 Act, the legislators were of the view there were no effective rules or regulations regulating model aircraft operation, elsewise, rather than calling for enactment of such, the 2032 Act would have called for action to repeal, amend, or modify the existing rules or regulations, and not require a date for issuance of a final rule."
"Aircraft," as defined by the FAA, also never included the smaller, model device that Pinker used, according to the ruling.
Geraghty's ruling is stayed pending an appeal that the FAA filed Friday. Any commercial drone flights in the meantime would still be subject to fines.
"The agency is concerned that this decision could impact the safe operation of the national airspace system and the safety of people and property on the ground," the FAA said in a statement.
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
Big Gov't Nonsense
()
Date: March 18, 2014 09:11AM
What's the difference between that thing and a model airplane?
Do you need FAA permission for one of those too?
Do you need FAA permission for one of those too?
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
The Barrister
()
Date: March 18, 2014 11:39AM
Some of you seriously need to bone up on the difference between statute and administrative law and maybe read the Administrative Procedures Act of 1946, as amended.
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
buffcoat
()
Date: March 18, 2014 11:54AM
You said "bone up."
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
The Barrister
()
Date: March 18, 2014 12:40PM
buffcoat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You said "bone up."
Yeah. After 125+ years, people should be used to it. At least the ones who have made it past the eighth grade...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bone%20up
-------------------------------------------------------
> You said "bone up."
Yeah. After 125+ years, people should be used to it. At least the ones who have made it past the eighth grade...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bone%20up
Re: FAA: Nationals did not have permission to use drone to photograph spring training
Posted by:
No permit
()
Date: March 19, 2014 04:39AM
no drone
Attachments:
Attachments: