I decided to back to church this past August. My friends had found McClean Bible Church. I loved it because they did not preach about anti-gays and anti-abortion. It seemed like a welcoming loving environment....Until Lon Solomon returned from his sabbatical. His sermons seemed very narcissistic. Then came late October, early November – Lon’s sermons became fire and brimstone. He actually stated that even if you are a devout Jewish, Muslim, or Hindi member and you lived your life treating others well you were going to hell if you did not accept Christ into your heart. They actually asked the congregation to write down names of people who can be saved and those people who were going to hell and could not be saved. My friends and I got up and walked out of service. We’ve never been back!!
WHAT HAPPENED TO…love thy neighbor and god is kind and loving

Love thy neighbor is going away all over the place these days . . . haven't you noticed? That Bible Church sounds awfully "trendy" . . . they know which side the bread is buttered on. You must not have enough butter.

Karen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He
> actually stated that even if you are a devout
> Jewish, Muslim, or Hindi member and you lived your
> life treating others well you were going to hell
> if you did not accept Christ into your heart.

Ummm. That's called Christianity.

Surprisingly a lot of Christians never get this for some reason. According to most Christian Doctrine, non-Christians are going to Hell.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/13-11.htm

Some choose to believe parts of the Bible, but not all the Bible. In today's polically correct society, this is not a popular with some, and not easy for others.

If you believe all the Bible, as MBC does, then you must accept Jesus Christ as your Savior to be saved, which is the criteria to go to heaven. Doing good does not count, being a Muslim does not count, etc.

Just one of many verses:

Acts 4:12 "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

This verse is referring to Jesus Christ, not Mohammed, not Buddha, not yourself or any other.

Karen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I decided to back to church this past August. My
> friends had found McClean Bible Church. I loved
> it because they did not preach about anti-gays and
> anti-abortion. It seemed like a welcoming loving
> environment....Until Lon Solomon returned from his
> sabbatical. His sermons seemed very narcissistic.
> Then came late October, early November –
> Lon’s sermons became fire and brimstone. He
> actually stated that even if you are a devout
> Jewish, Muslim, or Hindi member and you lived your
> life treating others well you were going to hell
> if you did not accept Christ into your heart.
> They actually asked the congregation to write down
> names of people who can be saved and those people
> who were going to hell and could not be saved.
> My friends and I got up and walked out of service.
> We’ve never been back!!
> WHAT HAPPENED TO…love thy neighbor and god is
> kind and loving


This is why religion is such a crock. "My god is the only god"...what a bunch of horse shit.

Actually, the only way to gain salvation and enter heaven is through good works.

"whatever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me"

So you really can't be a smarmy self-righteous prim and claim to have the inside track to heaven. You absolutely must do good works.

Once a month, chop a roosters head off, and put it on a stick. Build a fire, then disrobe. Dance around the fire for an hour , keeping the stick aloft, and chanting "ooga booga".
This will appease the Supreme being for 29 days .

WashingTone(DEAF)-Locian wrote :
--------------------------------------------------
> "Ummm. That's called Christianity."

NO, THAT'S WHAT CHRISTIANITY MEANS TO SUIT YOUR AGENDA.
SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE IT IMPLICITY SAYS THAT ALL SOULS WILL
NOT BE DEALT WITH ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS, BUT RATHER ALL
NON-BELIEVERS SHALL SUFFER FOR ETERNITY.
SHOW IT TO ME.

> "Surprisingly a lot of Christians never get this for some reason."

YOU ARE THE ONE THAT DOESN'T GET SHIT FOR SOME REASON !

> "According to most Christian Doctrine,
> non-Christians are going to Hell."

LINKS ?

HERE'S ONE FOR YOU :
http://www.internetchurchofchrist.org/pearl-doallnonchristiansgotohell.html

The fact that you misspelled 'McLean' TWICE makes me think you are lying about having been a member. But that leaves me wondering what your angle is.....

not a sermon just a thought

oh no lonnie's back does this mean a return to his radio ads

Just Say No Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fact that you misspelled 'McLean' TWICE makes
> me think you are lying about having been a member.
> But that leaves me wondering what your angle
> is.....


I used to belong to the MrClean Bible Church. It wasn't the same as the McLean bible church, though. Our pastor was a guy with a shaved head, muscular and wore circular earrings on each ear.

That's a pirate church.

Karen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I decided to back to church this past August. My
> friends had found McClean Bible Church. I loved
> it because they did not preach about anti-gays and
> anti-abortion. It seemed like a welcoming loving
> environment....Until Lon Solomon returned from his
> sabbatical. His sermons seemed very narcissistic.
> Then came late October, early November –
> Lon’s sermons became fire and brimstone. He
> actually stated that even if you are a devout
> Jewish, Muslim, or Hindi member and you lived your
> life treating others well you were going to hell
> if you did not accept Christ into your heart.
> They actually asked the congregation to write down
> names of people who can be saved and those people
> who were going to hell and could not be saved.
> My friends and I got up and walked out of service.
> We’ve never been back!!
> WHAT HAPPENED TO…love thy neighbor and god is
> kind and loving


Nothing happened to love thy neighbor. In fact, Lon is trying to tell everyone that there is one path to heaven, and it's not just good works as some misguided souls seem to believe. See Ephesians 2:8-9 and James 2:26, which clearly states that good works without faith in Jesus Christ will not get you into heaven. Jesus Himself said that no one can enter the Kingdom of heaven but through Him.

It's call McLean BIBLE Church. The doctrine is based on what the BIBLE says. I suggest you try a Catholic Church, where they don't care what you do or what you believe as long as your filling the offering plate. God judges. If you were a Christian, you would know this. To say Lon preaches hate is a mistake. MBC is truly about "love the sinner, hate the sin". It is not about excusing all behavior because it doesn't hurt anyone else or is currently acceptable in our secular society. Lon and MCB state what is in the Bible. If you can't stand to hear that, then perhaps you should look inside yourself and try and figure out why. What is keeping you from wanting to hear and live the words of God?

Hence you have to go through the prophet to gain enlightenment and acceptance.

Lon Solomon rapes again!

His name Lon Solomon sounds Jewish.

Wenger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's a pirate church.

No, MrClean isn't running a pirate church. It's actually a clean church.

Yeah, the MBC is filled with snide hypocritical hate mongers where the only criteria for membership is how much $$ You can throw into their greedy grasping unholy hands. They delude themselves into thinking decency and good works are unimportant so long as you fake belief in Jesus. It is a rump church with no redeeming features.

Evolution has been confirmed...accept it.

Darwin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Evolution has been confirmed...accept it.


Proof please

What kind of church guilt trips you into handing over you money but won't reveal the pastor's salary or other financials. Not a sermon, just a thought.

When was the last time you went to Church, when was the last time you prayed, when was the last time you needed God in a time of need? Does it matter where we go to pray - it sounds like you all have a personal issue it's not McLean Bible Church I think no matter what Church you would visit you would find fault as it doesn't fit your agenda. Beware - when the end comes you will be praying hard asking for forgiveness wishing you belonged to A church. There are bigger issues in the world, hunger, war, poverty - grow up.

"Beware - when the end comes you will be praying hard asking for forgiveness wishing you belonged to A church."


I think I'll be in my basement enjoying a glass of wine with a hunky guy.

STILL LIVING IN MOMMY'S BASEMENT ?
NO SURPRISE THERE !

RETARD wrote :
----------------------------------
> "Evolution has been confirmed...accept it."

WHAT DOES THE LAW OF GRAVITY CONFIRM ?
THERE IS A LAW MAKER...accept it.

Hey Angel. So you think you're an angel? Or you speak for an angel? That's pride. What does the bible say about that?

Get off your high horse. Oh and as I understand Lon's preaching of the bible, it's faith not membership in a church that makes someone saved. So why in the end would I be wishing I "belonged to A church". Either you don't believe what they preach or you're talking out of your ass. And why would I need to ask forgiveness for asking such a fundamental question: Why a church doesn't reveal it's pastor's salary? I mean they put up these enormous fundraising goals and people don't have a right to know exactly how the money is spent? Grow up.

Hey Angel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey Angel. So you think you're an angel? Or you
> speak for an angel? That's pride. What does the
> bible say about that?
>
> Get off your high horse. Oh and as I understand
> Lon's preaching of the bible, it's faith not
> membership in a church that makes someone saved.
> So why in the end would I be wishing I "belonged
> to A church". Either you don't believe what they
> preach or you're talking out of your ass. And why
> would I need to ask forgiveness for asking such a
> fundamental question: Why a church doesn't reveal
> it's pastor's salary? I mean they put up these
> enormous fundraising goals and people don't have a
> right to know exactly how the money is spent?
> Grow up.


If you go to MCB, then perhaps you could ask. If you don't, why do you care? I know they publish the budget and staff salaries are included. I don't know if they break that down to individuals or not as it is not something that I really care about.

Some friends of mine used to attend there until they moved out of the area. They told me that there was a list of expeditures every week in a bulletin so you could see exactly where money was being spent. This bulletin was available to everybody.

WHITE POWER ! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RETARD wrote :
> ----------------------------------
> > "Evolution has been confirmed...accept it."
>
> WHAT DOES THE LAW OF GRAVITY CONFIRM ?
> THERE IS A LAW MAKER...accept it.


Ah yes, god's in there tying all the little atoms together with rubber bands and punishing the miscreants

"Naughty atom - its off to hell with you! And no supper"

Atom kindergarten must be a scream - but all that running around trying to corral badly behaved stars must just be a pain

Darren Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Darwin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Evolution has been confirmed...accept it.
>
>
> Proof please

If you think you've got a better coherent explanation - go spend a day at the Nation History Museum down on the Mall and then come back with your own theory that's consistent with the facts of the geology, the fossil record and the genetics

Oh, I'm sorry god sent all that time salting fake dinosaur bones everywhere just to test us - that and the evil liberal scientists

Give up a sunday at church - if you come back still believing the old-man-in-the-sky dunnit, he'll be all the prouder of you and you'll have had a day out

Darren Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Darwin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Evolution has been confirmed...accept it.
>
>
> Proof please


Pick up a book or google it. And get your head out of the sand.

> Proof please


Even the Pope acknowledges evolution happened and is currently happening. By default most Christian churches accept Evolution as FACT. Also they acknowledge that the world is much older than 200,000 years. Catholic moved the discussion on when the soul was created, you know like thinking and studying, something that Mega Churches don't do.

Karen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I decided to back to church this past August. My
> friends had found McClean Bible Church. I loved
> it because they did not preach about anti-gays and
> anti-abortion. It seemed like a welcoming loving
> environment....Until Lon Solomon returned from his
> sabbatical. His sermons seemed very narcissistic.
> Then came late October, early November –
> Lon’s sermons became fire and brimstone. He
> actually stated that even if you are a devout
> Jewish, Muslim, or Hindi member and you lived your
> life treating others well you were going to hell
> if you did not accept Christ into your heart.
> They actually asked the congregation to write down
> names of people who can be saved and those people
> who were going to hell and could not be saved.
> My friends and I got up and walked out of service.
> We’ve never been back!!
> WHAT HAPPENED TO…love thy neighbor and god is
> kind and loving


It sounds like Lon got laid during his sabbatical and is having a mid-life existential crisis.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The three enemies of the people are hegemony, monogamy, and monotony."-Terence McKenna

naughty naughty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Darren Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Darwin Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Evolution has been confirmed...accept it.
> >
> >
> > Proof please
>
> If you think you've got a better coherent
> explanation - go spend a day at the Nation
> History Museum down on the Mall and then come back
> with your own theory that's consistent with the
> facts of the geology, the fossil record and the
> genetics
>
> Oh, I'm sorry god sent all that time salting fake
> dinosaur bones everywhere just to test us - that
> and the evil liberal scientists
>
> Give up a sunday at church - if you come back
> still believing the old-man-in-the-sky dunnit,
> he'll be all the prouder of you and you'll have
> had a day out


So, no proof. Just as I thought.

Darwin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Darren Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Darwin Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Evolution has been confirmed...accept it.
> >
> >
> > Proof please
>
>
> Pick up a book or google it. And get your head
> out of the sand.


When it is no longer the "Theory" of evolution, then perhaps you'll have something. Otherwise, it is still humans trying to push observations into theories to explain that which they can not.

I Wrotes :
----------------------
> WHAT DOES THE LAW OF GRAVITY CONFIRM ?
> THERE IS A LAW MAKER...accept it.

Anon-MORON named 'naughty naughty' wrote :
--------------------------------------------------
> "Ah yes, god's in there tying all the little atoms together
> with rubber bands and punishing the miscreants
>"Naughty atom - its off to hell with you! And no supper"
> Atom kindergarten must be a scream - but all that running around
> trying to corral badly behaved stars must just be a pain"

I EXPECTED NO LESS THAN A STUPID RESPONSE FROM A RETARD LIKE YOURSELF.
BRAVO !

> "If you think you've got a better coherent explanation -
> go spend a day at the Nation History Museum down on the Mall
> and then come back with your own theory that's consistent with
> the facts of the geology, the fossil record and the genetics"

THAT'S JUST THE THING :
"EVOLUTION" DOES NOT DISPROVE A CREATOR.
IT PROVES IT.
IT IS A SET OF RULES THAT ALLOWED LIFE ON THIS PLANET TO TAKE SHAPE.
WITH OUT THE GENETIC CODE ALLOWING FOR CROSS-BREEDING THE WORLD YOU
SEE WOULD NOT EXIST.

JUST LIKE GRAVITY ALLOWED FOR THE PLANETS FORMATION
-EVOLUTION IS/WAS THE VEHICLE OF LIFE.

> "Oh, I'm sorry god sent all that time salting fake dinosaur
> bones everywhere just to test us
> - that and the evil liberal scientists"

ABSURD RHETORICAL NON-SENSE HERE

> "Give up a sunday at church - if you come back still believing
> the old-man-in-the-sky dunnit, he'll be all the prouder of
> you and you'll have had a day out"

MY GOODNESS,
A LEAD FISHING SINKER WOULD BE JEALOUS OF YOUR DENSITY.

SAY, IF NATURE IS A PRODUCT OF THE SPACE-TIME-MATTER THAT IS SO ADEPT AT
SPONTANEOUSLY CREATEING ITSELF
[OR HAD NO BEGINING LIKE SOME MORONS SUGGEST]

WITH EVERYTHING ELSE SO PERFECT LIKE THE THICKNESS OF OUR ATMOSOPHERE THE DISTANCE FROM THE SUN AND THE POWER OF GRAVITY.
WHY ARE WE NOT PERFECT LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND US.

SIMPLIFIED :

PERFECT PLANET STRUCTURE
PERFECT TEMPURATURE RANGE
PERFECT OXYGEN LEVELS.

WHY NO PERFECT CREATURES ?

EVERYTHING ELSE CLICKED, WHY DIDN'T HUMANS ?
WE ARE THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE ANIMAL KINGDOM
HECK, WE ARE THE FARTHEST FROM MENTAL PERFECTION ALSO.

IF EVOLUTION REIGNS SUPREME, THEN WITH MILLIONS OF YEARS TO
GET IT RIGHT, WHY IS THE HUMAN RACE SO PLAGUED WITH DISEASE
AND MENTAL PERVERSION ?

WHAT HAPPEND THERE?

SAME anon-MORON w/new sick-puppet name 'JR' wrote :
------------------------------------------------------------
> "Even the Pope acknowledges evolution happened and is currently happening."

SO ?
CARE TO SHARE YOUR POINT ?

> "By default most Christian churches accept Evolution as FACT."

ACCEPT IT LIKE THEY ACCEPT THE LAW OF GRAVITY.
NOT LIKE IT PROVES YOUR DUMBASS ASSERTIONS.

> "Also they acknowledge that the world is much older than 200,000 years."

AGAIN, CARE TO SHARE YOUR POINT ?

> "Catholic moved the discussion on when the soul was created,"

HUH ?
ARE YOU RETARDED SON ?

> you know like thinking and studying, something that Mega Churches don't do."

YOU = ***CONFIRMED MENTAL RETARD.***

GO SUCK YOUR BOYFRIENDS DICK NOW YOU SELF LOATHING ANTI-GOD FAGGOT.

>SO ?
CARE TO SHARE YOUR POINT ?


THESE FACTS WILL MAKE YOUR BRAIN IMPLODE WITH DEFEAT!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

Pope John Paul stated that evolutionism is certainly
valid as an hypothesis, he added that the theories of evolution
which consider the spirit as emerging from the forces of living
matter "are incompatible with the truth about man."

Pope John Paul II, in an address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, caused quite a stir by declaring that "new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis."

The largest Christian denomination is the Roman Catholic Church, with 1.166 billion adherents, representing half of all Christians.

Church does not insist on a literal reading of the Book of Genesis.


BAM! YOU LOSE! IMPOSE SELF PUNISHMENT NOW! REPENT YOUR IGNORANCE NOW!

YOU = COGNITIVE DISSONANCE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I Wrotes :
> ----------------------


Typical head-in-the-sand creationist response

>
> WITH EVERYTHING ELSE SO PERFECT LIKE THE THICKNESS
> OF OUR ATMOSOPHERE THE DISTANCE FROM THE SUN AND
> THE POWER OF GRAVITY.
> WHY ARE WE NOT PERFECT LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE AROUND
> US.
>
> SIMPLIFIED :
>
> PERFECT PLANET STRUCTURE
> PERFECT TEMPURATURE RANGE
> PERFECT OXYGEN LEVELS.


Astronomical observations indicate
- 170 Billion galaxies
- each of up to a trillion stars

which would give us
- 170,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the observable universe

but lets be conservative and say we're over-estimating by x170,000

that would still give us 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars or 100Million times as many as the current population of the world

so the right conditions are just not that unlikely...


>
> WHY NO PERFECT CREATURES ?
>
> EVERYTHING ELSE CLICKED, WHY DIDN'T HUMANS ?
> WE ARE THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF THE ANIMAL KINGDOM
> HECK, WE ARE THE FARTHEST FROM MENTAL PERFECTION
> ALSO.
>
> IF EVOLUTION REIGNS SUPREME, THEN WITH MILLIONS OF
> YEARS TO
> GET IT RIGHT, WHY IS THE HUMAN RACE SO PLAGUED
> WITH DISEASE
> AND MENTAL PERVERSION ?
>
> WHAT HAPPEND THERE?


There's no such thing as a perfect creature - its a very bizarre concept entirely at odds with the way the world works outside of your head

Evolution produces lifeforms that are better suited to a particular transient set of conditions than their rivals - no more

You're riddled with disease because its a wet-world out there - you're built of the same stuff as your enemies including viruses, bacteria, molds and predators

The fact that you are riddles with diseases is another good indication that life fills niches and evolution is its mechanism

The concept of 'mental perversions' is a typical religious idea that has no grounding in the real world

Anon-MORON named 'JR' wrote :
-----------------------------------------------------------
> Pope John Paul stated that evolutionism is certainly
> valid as an hypothesis,

NOT AS "AN" HYPOTHESIS FOR THE NON-EXISTENCE OF GOD !

> "he added that the theories of evolution
> which consider the spirit as emerging from the forces
> of living matter "are incompatible with the truth about man."

MOOT POINT

> "Pope John Paul II, in an address to the Pontifical Academy
> of Sciences, caused quite a stir by declaring that
> "new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of
> evolution as more than a hypothesis."

HYPOTHESIS FOR THE EXPLANATION OF THE MECHANICS OF HOW GOD
OPERATES THROUGH THE NATURAL WORLD HE CREATED, YA DUMMY.

NOT A VALID HYPOTHESIS FOR BACKING UP YOUR PEA-BRAINED ASSERTION.

> "The largest Christian denomination is the Roman Catholic Church,
> with 1.166 billion adherents, representing half of all Christians.

...DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOU.

> "Church does not insist on a literal reading of the Book of Genesis."

SO?

> "BAM! YOU LOSE!

INCORRECT, YOU ARE THE LOSER HERE.

> "IMPOSE SELF PUNISHMENT NOW!
> REPENT YOUR IGNORANCE NOW!"

IT'S ALL A BIG JOKE,
UNTIL YOU REALISE THAT *YOU* WERE THE JOKE ALL ALONG.

anon-MORON named 'naughty naughty' wrote :
-----------------------------------------------
> "Typical head-in-the-sand creationist response"

YOURS IS THE TYPICAL HEAD-IN-ASS EVOLUTIONIST RESPONSE.

> "Astronomical observations indicate
> - 170 Billion galaxies
> - each of up to a trillion stars
> which would give us
>- 170,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the observable universe
> but lets be conservative and say we're over-estimating by x170,000
> that would still give us 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars or
> 100Million times as many as the current population of the world

SO ?

> "so the right conditions are just not that unlikely..."

YES THEY ARE THAT UNLIKELY.
IF THEY WERE NOT THAT UNLIKELY -THEN THERE WOULD BE MORE
EARTHS IN OUR "OBSERVABLE UNIVERSE". I'M TALKING EARTHS WITH
THE SAME HUMANS AND PLANETARY CONDITIONS -BEING YOU BELIEVE
IT IS SO LIKELY.

*BUT* THERE ARE NOT.

> "There's no such thing as a perfect creature"

EXACTLY.

> "- its a very bizarre concept entirely at odds with the
> way the world works outside of your head"

NO IT'S NOT.
IF EVOLUTION REIGNED SUPREME THEN WE SHOULD BE EVOLUTIONALLY
THE BIGGEST BADDEST CREATURES OF OUR KIND LIKE SHARKS OR KILLER WHALES.

*BUT* WE ARE NOT.

> "Evolution produces lifeforms"

NO IT DOES NOT.
IT PRODUCES *NEW* LIFEFORMS.
"LIFE" ITSELF REQUIRES A CATALYST.

> "[evolution produces life forms] that are better suited
> to a particular transient set of conditions than their rivals"

THANKS FOR RE-ASSERTING/PROVING MY POINT. - no more

> "You're riddled with disease because its a wet-world out there
> - you're built of the same stuff as your enemies including viruses,
> bacteria, molds and predators"

YET ANOTER MOOT POINT.

> "The fact that you are riddles with diseases is another good
> indication that life fills niches

WHAT NICHES ?
VIRUSES THEORETICALLY SHOULD HAVE MADE HUMAN EVOLUTION IMPOSSIBLE.

> "and evolution is its mechanism"

INCORRECT ASSWIPE !
EVOLUTION IS GOD'S MECHANISM FOR THE MANIFESTATION OF THE NATURAL WORLD.
DUMBASS.

> "The concept of 'mental perversions' is a typical religious
> idea that has no grounding in the real world."

IT HAS GROUNDING IN THE FACT THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS A MENTAL ILLNESS.
FAR FROM EVOLVED OR PERFECT.

YOU = JOKE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anon-MORON named 'JR' wrote :
> --------------------------------------------------

> > "Pope John Paul II, in an address to the
> Pontifical Academy
> > of Sciences, caused quite a stir by declaring
> that
> > "new knowledge has led to the recognition of the
> theory of
> > evolution as more than a hypothesis."
>
> HYPOTHESIS FOR THE EXPLANATION OF THE MECHANICS OF
> HOW GOD
> OPERATES THROUGH THE NATURAL WORLD HE CREATED, YA
> DUMMY.
>
> NOT A VALID HYPOTHESIS FOR BACKING UP YOUR
> PEA-BRAINED ASSERTION.
>

Presumably you'd like help by offering up any evidence of any deity operating anything?

Coupled with the environmental changes captured in the geological record, evolution does a fine job of explaining the biological aspects of the natural word (physics, chemistry and geology cover the non-biological aspects nicely)

You've failed to point out any evidence for a god, or gaps in the scientific explanation of observations which indicate one's involvement

Typical ill-informed and under-educated christian bigot

JR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >SO ?
> CARE TO SHARE YOUR POINT ?
>
>
> THESE FACTS WILL MAKE YOUR BRAIN IMPLODE WITH
> DEFEAT!!!!!!
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_e
> volution
>
> Pope John Paul stated that evolutionism is
> certainly
> valid as an hypothesis, he added that the theories
> of evolution
> which consider the spirit as emerging from the
> forces of living
> matter "are incompatible with the truth about
> man."
>
> Pope John Paul II, in an address to the Pontifical
> Academy of Sciences, caused quite a stir by
> declaring that "new knowledge has led to the
> recognition of the theory of evolution as more
> than a hypothesis."
>
> The largest Christian denomination is the Roman
> Catholic Church, with 1.166 billion adherents,
> representing half of all Christians.
>
> Church does not insist on a literal reading of the
> Book of Genesis.
>
>
> BAM! YOU LOSE! IMPOSE SELF PUNISHMENT NOW!
> REPENT YOUR IGNORANCE NOW!


I am not Catholic, so their teachings or interpretations mean nothing to me.

naughty naughty Wrote:

> You've failed to point out any evidence for a god,
> or gaps in the scientific explanation of
> observations which indicate one's involvement
>


Here's one: where did everything come from? Something can not come from nothing.

Darren Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> > > Proof please
> >
> > If you think you've got a better coherent
> > explanation - go spend a day at the Nation
> > History Museum down on the Mall and then come
> back
> > with your own theory that's consistent with the
> > facts of the geology, the fossil record and the
> > genetics
> >
> > Oh, I'm sorry god sent all that time salting
> fake
> > dinosaur bones everywhere just to test us -
> that
> > and the evil liberal scientists
> >
> > Give up a sunday at church - if you come back
> > still believing the old-man-in-the-sky dunnit,
> > he'll be all the prouder of you and you'll have
> > had a day out
>
>
> So, no proof. Just as I thought.

You are sadly mistaken - the evidence and its rational explanation are well laid out there.

From the formation of the solar system and the geological history of the earth and its atmosphere to the extensive fossil record, the understanding of how the DNA operates amongst related species and the mechanisms of adaptation, speciation and evolution

I guess its just easier to stick your head up your own ass and stick to faith rather than actually look at the evidence around you

Another perfect example of why religion should be expunged from society

naught naughty wrote

------------------------------
"From the formation of the solar system and the geological history of the earth and its atmosphere to the extensive fossil record"


How exactly was it formed? Jules brought up the question and pointed out that something can't come from nothing.

Anon-MORONIC FAGGOT named 'naughty naughty' wrote :
----------------------------------------------------------------
> "Presumably you'd like help by offering up any evidence of any
> deity operating anything?"

BIBLE.
WHERE'S YOUR EVIDENCE THAT LIFE JUST SPONTANEOUSLY CREATES ITSELF ?

> "Coupled with the environmental changes captured in the geological
> record,

WHAT DOES THIS PROVE ?

> "evolution does a fine job of explaining the biological aspects
> of the natural worLd"

NO IT DOES NOT.
OTHERWISE, WE WOULD ALL BE BACTERIA !

> "(physics,"

PHYSICS REFUTES YOUR THEORY
See "THERMODYNAMICS"

> chemistry and geology cover the non-biological aspects nicely)"

HOW SO ?
WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A COMPLETE FISSIL RECORD.

> "You've failed"

SORRY, YOU ARE THE ONLY FAILIRE HERE.

> "to point out any evidence for a god,"

YES I HAVE.

> "or gaps in the scientific explanation of observations
> which indicate one's involvement."

SCIENCE AND ALL THE OTHER ASPECTS OF IT, DO *NOT* SUPPORT YOUR THEORY.

> "Typical ill-informed"

THIS PERFECTLY DECRIBES YOU.

>and under-educated christian

I AM SUFFICIENTLY EDUCATED TO POKE HOLES IN YOUR DUMBASS THEORIES.

> "bigot"

ME NOT LIKING or APPROVING OF YOUR SEXUALLY PERVERTED LIFESTYLE
DOES *NOT* MAKE ME A "BIGOT"

BUT IT *DOES* MAKE YOU A FILTHY "FAGGOT" !
LOAL !

WHAT IS DNA ?
HOW DID IT "EVOLVE" /SELF-PROGRAM ?

>>>
NO IT'S NOT.
IF EVOLUTION REIGNED SUPREME THEN WE SHOULD BE EVOLUTIONALLY
THE BIGGEST BADDEST CREATURES OF OUR KIND LIKE SHARKS OR KILLER WHALES.

*BUT* WE ARE NOT.

>>>



So intellect doesnt count? Lol. We'll just NUKE the "biggest, baddest creatures".

You forgot the most important physical aspects.... The Brain. Use it!

what tells DNA to follow it's own rules
in a universe you attribute to randomness ?

tool Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> naught naughty wrote
>
> ------------------------------
> "From the formation of the solar system and the
> geological history of the earth and its atmosphere
> to the extensive fossil record"
>
>
> How exactly was it formed? Jules brought up the
> question and pointed out that something can't come
> from nothing.

We know from observations that the heavy elements are built up by fusion within the bodies of stars and later released by supernovae. Gravity then brings the elements back together to form new stars and their planets.

Modern cosmology takes us back to the point expansion big bang - and history has been pretty well explained and modeled from there with no need for any deity.

Space and time as we experience them appear to have come into existence at that point. As to what they came into existence from it, seems unlikely that we'll be able to measure outside of the box of our universe - although some advocates of string theory suggest that we may be able to see the evidence of interaction between discrete universes at the very macro scale

That leaves two questions:

"do we see any evidence or need for a god post big bang" - the evidence is overwhelmingly no

"does a pre-big bang god setting up all of the pieces to end up with people he can talk to make sense"
the evidence again is no, modeling and predicting the state of a complex quantum system requires another quantum system at least as powerful - so, you'd need one universe to predict the outcome of another - and many runs if you wanted to determine the 'right' start state

The fact that science can't measure before the appearance of space and time (even though its pretty good after their appearance) is not a good excuse for expecting people to believe in the big-cloud-bully, abstract morality, prayers, magic, miracles or papal infallibility


The trope "something can't come from nothing' clearly applies most dramatically to religion with always avoided "where did God come from"

Religion fails to adequately explain our local experience, let alone the astronomical and cosmological - it has no tools to explain before the big-bang. In fact it has no tools to explain anything.

Fat anon-faggot wrote :
---------------------------------------------------
> "So intellect doesnt count? Lol.

COUNT FOR WHAT ?
A SHARK DOESN'T CARE HOW SMART YOU ARE.
APES ARE GENETICALLY STRONGER THAN US, SO WE MUST HAVE DE-EVOLVED RIGHT ?
AND WHAT INTELLECT WOULD THAT BE, BEING WE ARE CREATURES THAT
HAVE SO MUCH TROUBLE COMPREHENDING THE SIMPLE CONCEPT OF CREATION ITSELF.

> "We'll just NUKE the "biggest, baddest creatures".

THE CAVE MAN HAD NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY ?
THAT'S NEWS TO ME !
LOAL !

> "You forgot the most important physical aspects....
> The Brain. Use it!"

REALLY ?
WE ARE BARELY A RUNG ABOVE THE TREE-CLIMBING APES AS
FAR A INTELLIGENCE GOES.
STRUCTURES LIKE THE PYRAMIDS ARE A TESTAMENT TO
THE FACT THAT WE ARE NOT THE SMARTEST BEINGS THAT EVER ROAMED THIS PLANET.

> "The Brain. Use it!"

YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE.
BY THE WAY, YOU ARE SADLY LOSING THIS DISCUSSION. :-)~

>Religion fails to adequately explain our local experience, let alone the astronomical and cosmological - it has no tools to explain before the big-bang


Religion explains that there was a God before the "Big Bang" where did He come from? God has and always will be, that is why He is God.
The thought that an explosion (Big Bang) made something as complex as the world as we know it is ridiculous. By that standard, anytime a bomb goes off, something should be created.

I think most people who believe in the Bible would agree that there is evolution of species. That is, certain species can evolve within themselves to adapt to changing environments. The problem is when you claim that everything came from one bacteria or whatever. I'm sorry, but a cow doesn't suddenly become an alligator. One species doesn't create an whole new species.

naughty naughty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The trope "something can't come from nothing'
> clearly applies most dramatically to religion with
> always avoided "where did God come from"
>
> Religion fails to adequately explain our local
> experience, let alone the astronomical and
> cosmological - it has no tools to explain before
> the big-bang. In fact it has no tools to explain
> anything.


God is supernatural and is not bound by the laws of the universe or man. That is why He can exist always and everywhere. However, your theory MUST be bound by the laws of nature and science as that is what you base your argument.

Yes, I can google "where did universe come from" and read the nonsensical theories that you posted. But there is NO PROOF at all in these theories. Not even observations that support the hypothesis. They are pure speculation to try and provide an answer and require more faith to believe them than to believe in a Creator God who is behind all of this.

The Bible is the tool that explains before the big bang. God is, was and always will be. Where are the mistruths in the Bible? None so far.

And the original question that I asked was, "PROOF please". Still waiting.

Anon-MORON named 'naughty naughty' wrote:
----------------------------------------------------
> "We know from observations that the heavy elements are built up
> by fusion within the bodies of stars"

WHERR DID THE ELEMENTS THAT MAKE UP THE STARS COME FROM.

> "and later released by supernovae."

THIS IS CALLED A THEORY.

> "Gravity then brings the elements back together to form new stars
> and their planets."

WHAT IS GRAVITY ?
WHERE IS IT ?
WHAT CREATED GRAVITY ?

> "Modern cosmology takes us back to the point expansion big bang
> - and history has been pretty well explained and modeled from
> there with no need for any deity."

AS MY SIMPLE QUESTIONS PREVIOUSLY ILLUSTRATED, YOUR STATEMENT IS FALSE.

> "Space"

WHAT CREATED "SPACE"
YOU KNOW THE AREA YOU NEED TO PUT ALL THIS MATTER IF THE UNIVERSE IN ?

> "and time"

WHAT IS TIME IS AN ASPECT OF THERMODYNAMICS AND IT REFUTES YOUR ARGUMENT.

> "[space and time] as we experience them appear to have come
> into existence at that point."

APPEAR TO ?
SO I WAS RIGHT AND THIS IS ALL JUST A BULLSHIT THEORY OF YOURS ?

> "As to what they came into existence from it,
> seems unlikely that we'll be able to measure outside of
> the box of our universe

OH WELL, I GUESS YOUR "EVOLUTION" THEORY IS AS WORTHLESS AS DIRT.
TOO BAD FOR YOU.

> "- although some advocates of string theory suggest that we may
> be able to see the evidence of interaction between discrete universes
> at the very macro scale"

DUDE, SAVE IT.
NOW YOU ARE BRINGING MULTIPLE UNIVERSES INTO YOUR EQUATION.
I KNOW IT IS TOUGH FOR YOU, BUT TRY TO STAY ON TOPIC.

> "That leaves two questions:
> "do we see any evidence or need for a god post big bang"

YES.
THE BIG BANG DID NOT CREATE OUR DNA, NOR DID IT PRODUCE HUMAN CONSCIENCE.

> - the evidence is overwhelmingly no

YOU ARE UN-DENIABLY WRONG.

> "does a pre-big bang god setting up all of the pieces to end up
> with people he can talk to make sense"

YES.
THAT IS WHAT HE DID.
YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE NOT MAKING SENSE RIGHT NOW.

> "the evidence again is no,

AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG.
THAT IS JUST YOUR UN-FOUNDED UN-SCIENTIFIC BOMBASTIC OPINION.

> "modeling and predicting the state of a complex quantum system
> requires another quantum system at least as powerful

SHUT THE FUCK UP IDIOT

>- so, you'd need one universe to predict the outcome of another -
> and many runs if you wanted to determine the 'right' start state

YET ANOTHER, MOOT POINT.
BRAVO !

> "The fact that science can't measure before the appearance of space
> and time (even though its pretty good after their appearance) is
> not a good excuse for expecting people to believe in the big-cloud-bully,
> abstract morality, prayers, magic, miracles or papal infallibility."

AGAIN, MOOT POINT.

> The trope "something can't come from nothing' clearly applies most
> dramatically to religion

NO IT DOES NOT.
IT IS A BLATANTLY SCIENTIFIC QUESTION.

> "with always avoided "where did God come from"

THAT QUESTION IS NEVER AVOIDED.
GOD IS AND ALWAYS WAS.
ASKING WHAT WAS BEFORE GOD, IS STUPID AND POINTLESS BECAUSE IT IS
OBVIOUS THAT IT WAS NOTHING TO US, AT LEAST NOTHING AS FAR AS WE
ARE CONCERNED WITH OR WOULD RECOGNISE.

> "Religion fails to adequately explain our local experience,

YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE FAILING TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING.

> "let alone the astronomical and cosmological -"

RELIGION NEVER ATTEMPTED TO "EXPLAIN" THE COSMOLOGICAL -PAST TELLING YOU THAT A SUPREME SPIRIT IS REPONSIBLE FOR IT.

> "it has no tools to explain before the big-bang."

YES IT DOES, GOD.
SCIENCE IS THE ONE WITH ILL-UNDERSTANDING OF PRE-BIG BANG OR LIFE IN GENERAL.

> "In fact it has no tools to explain anything."

FALSE.
YOU ARE THE TOOL EXPLAINING EVERYTHING IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE RIGHT NOW.

MAYNE THIS WILL HELP :

WHEN YOU DREAM YOU ARE IN A SIMILAR STATE AS GOD,
A BODYLESS-CONSCIOUSNESS THAT CAN CREATE IMAGES IN THE
REALM OR WORLD OF YOUR DREAMS.

"GOD" WOULD BE THE DREAMING BODYLESS-SPIRIT THAT DREAMT UP
THIS REALITY AND MADE IT MANIFEST ITSELF AS EVERYTHING YOU KNOW
WITH THE LAWS SET IN PLACE THAT DETERMINE WHAT THINGS ARE/BECOME.
-TO SERVE *HIS* PURPOSE HE CREATED IT FOR.

BEING THAT "CONSCIENCE" OR SPIRITS ARE NOT MATTER,
THEY NEED NO CREATING OR PRE-DATING.

THAT'S MY RATIONALE/ EXPLANATION.








GOD = SAME CONCEPT.

The key with the up arrow and shift, learn it, love it, live it.

SO WHAT IS THIS I KEEP HEARING ABOUT CAPS?
DOES IT BOTHER PEOPLE ?

PROVE ME WRONG SO I CAN STOP CARING ! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MAYNE THIS WILL HELP :
>
> WHEN YOU DREAM YOU ARE IN A SIMILAR STATE AS GOD,
>
> A BODYLESS-CONSCIOUSNESS THAT CAN CREATE IMAGES IN
> THE
> REALM OR WORLD OF YOUR DREAMS.
>
> "GOD" WOULD BE THE DREAMING BODYLESS-SPIRIT THAT
> DREAMT UP
> THIS REALITY AND MADE IT MANIFEST ITSELF AS
> EVERYTHING YOU KNOW
> WITH THE LAWS SET IN PLACE THAT DETERMINE WHAT
> THINGS ARE/BECOME.
> -TO SERVE *HIS* PURPOSE HE CREATED IT FOR.
>
> BEING THAT "CONSCIENCE" OR SPIRITS ARE NOT MATTER,
>
> THEY NEED NO CREATING OR PRE-DATING.
>
> THAT'S MY RATIONALE/ EXPLANATION.
>
>
>
> GOD = SAME CONCEPT.

You can smoke dope and sing happy clappy all you want - but making up random shit without any grounding doesn't get you anywhere, you're just in flying pink unicorn land. This is the sort of random babbling you get before people walk off into blizzards or dressed in the special white shirt with the extra buckles

If you can point at some evidence for spirits (or anything supernatural) you may have a leg up - but the global track record on that one is zero

Dreaming is just an artifact of how your brain works - I can slice and dice your brain to change its function at a range of levels.

If you think dreaming puts you in touch with the great space whale then you're clearly deluded

If you'd like to provide one iota of evidence or one hint of a mechanism or demonstrate one item of clear predictive power then it would be a start

ASSWIPE WROTE :
--------------------------------------------------
> "You can smoke dope"

SORRY BUT I DON'T SMOKE DOPE LIKE YOU OR YOUR MOTHER.

> "and sing happy clappy all you want"

THAT SOUNDS INTELLIGENT.

> "- but making up random shit without any grounding doesn't
> get you anywhere,"

BY "MAKING UP RANDOM SHIT", DO YOU MEAN LIKE ARGUING THIS
SELF-CREATING THING CALLED EVOLUTION PROVES THERE IS NO GOD ?

> "you're just in flying pink unicorn land."

KEEP YOUR GAY FANTASIES OUT OF THIS DISCUSSION PLEASE.

> "This is the sort of random babbling you get before people
> walk off into blizzards or dressed in the special white shirt
> with the extra buckles

YOU SOUND QUITE FAMILAIR WITH SUCH ATTIRE AND STUPIDTY.

> "If you can point at some evidence for spirits
> (or anything supernatural) you may have a leg up

MY LEG IS UP ALRIGHT, AND NOW I'M PISSING ON YOU.
LET'S SEE HERE, THERE ARE COUNTLESS ACCOUNTS OF ANGELS INTERVEENING
IN PEOPLES LIVES IN AND OUT OF THE BIBLE. THEN YOU HAVE THE
GHOST PHENOMENON, IF YOU CAN WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND THAT,
OR ACCEPT SUCH. GHOSTS ARE SUPERNATURAL.
BUT WHAT ELSE DO I NEED ?

> "- but the global track record on that one is zero

BIBLE + MILLIONS OF LIVING PEOPLES TESTIMONY
+ PHYSICAL EVIDENCE DOES NOT = NOTHING

> "Dreaming is just an artifact of how your brain works

REALLY ?
SO IS YOUR CONCEPT OF EVERYTHING YOU THINK YOU ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW.
IT'S JUST A REPRESENTATION OF WHAT YOUR MIND THINKS IS ACTUALLY THERE.

> "- I can slice and dice your brain to change its function
> at a range of levels."

TRY AND SLICE AND DICE THAT ROTTEN EGG I JUST LAID.

> "If you think dreaming puts you in touch with the great
> space whale then you're clearly deluded"

YOU ARE THE DELUDED ONE DRAWING RIDICULOUS CONCLUSION BASED ON AN
ANALOGY I WAS PRESENTING TO DESCRIBE HOW I TRY TO UNDERSTAND
CONSCIOUSNESS AND SPIRTUALITY.

> "If you'd like to provide one iota of evidence or one hint of
> a mechanism or demonstrate one item of clear predictive power
> then it would be a start"

SPEAKING OF START, I THINK I AM FINISHED NOW.
YOU'RE MIND BOGGLING ASSFOOLERY IS STARTING TO BORE ME.

YOU = ASSWIPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ASSWIPE WROTE :
> --------------------------------------------------
>

>
> MY LEG IS UP ALRIGHT, AND NOW I'M PISSING ON YOU.
> LET'S SEE HERE, THERE ARE COUNTLESS ACCOUNTS OF
> ANGELS INTERVEENING
> IN PEOPLES LIVES IN AND OUT OF THE BIBLE. THEN YOU
> HAVE THE
> GHOST PHENOMENON, IF YOU CAN WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND
> THAT,
> OR ACCEPT SUCH. GHOSTS ARE SUPERNATURAL.
> BUT WHAT ELSE DO I NEED ?
>

Yup - those damned angels - sometimes you can't move for them saving people's lives - is that why all the churches around here are so large? To give the angels somewhere to roost?

And those ghosts - all that rattling and moaning and possessing - its all so tiresome, good job I keep that bell, book and candle to hand, but you can never find a good exorcist when you need them (or your car keys - perhaps that's why, but never mind)

Oh - and goblins, no one likes goblins

oh oh - I know ... elves - now they're really creepy - sneaky and creepy, always fixing people's shoes or was that Elvis - sounds like a plot to me

and the easter bunny - he's my favorite - but where DOES he get all that candy?

> "and the easter bunny - he's my favorite
> - but where DOES he get all that candy?

IT'S BOUGHT WITH MONEY FROM CRACK SALES.

Religious freaks are the absolute worst. Ever been to a dinner party with one of them? YUCK. Brainwashing is serious stuff. Their weak little minds can't overcome it, poor simpletons.

Irreligious freaks are the absolute worst. Ever been to a dinner party with one of them? YUCK. Brainwashing is serious stuff. Their weak little minds can't overcome it, poor simpletons.

Romans 1:18-32 (New International Version, ©2010)

18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

19 since WHAT MAY BE KNOW ABOUT GOD IS PLAIN TO THEM, because God has made it plain to them.

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

While we were having lunch, Jesus told me people who constantly quote the bible are usually full of shit.
He also warned me not to eat the oysters.

THAT'S JUST A NAME THEY CALL THEM, THEY ARE ACTUALLY SHEEP BALLS.

Julis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, the MBC is filled with snide hypocritical
> hate mongers where the only criteria for
> membership is how much $$ You can throw into their
> greedy grasping unholy hands. They delude
> themselves into thinking decency and good works
> are unimportant so long as you fake belief in
> Jesus. It is a rump church with no redeeming
> features.

Not true... Lon has specifically stated in the past that he doesn't care if you tithe or not. He has actually stated if you want to tithe somewhere else, he's fine with that. He has also points out that tithing is the only thing that God actually tells you to test Him on in Malachi 3:10.

> -Posted by: YOU = BOZO


> > "So intellect doesnt count? Lol.
>
> COUNT FOR WHAT ?
> A SHARK DOESN'T CARE HOW SMART YOU ARE.
> APES ARE GENETICALLY STRONGER THAN US, SO WE MUST
> HAVE DE-EVOLVED RIGHT ?
> AND WHAT INTELLECT WOULD THAT BE, BEING WE ARE
> CREATURES THAT
> HAVE SO MUCH TROUBLE COMPREHENDING THE SIMPLE
> CONCEPT OF CREATION ITSELF.

Okay dude, you are an idiot. "A shark doesnt care how smart you are?" Did you have a brain seizure? You said we are creatures that have trouble comprehending the concept of creation... Last time i checked we are the ONLY creatures on this planet that are "comprehending creation".. Last time i checked BoBo the chimp wasnt sitting around in deep contemplation over his origins.
>
> > "We'll just NUKE the "biggest, baddest
> creatures".
>
> THE CAVE MAN HAD NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY ?
> THAT'S NEWS TO ME !
> LOAL !

Who said i was talking about the caveman.. shouldnt we be talking about the present? Seems fair enough to me..
>
> > "You forgot the most important physical
> aspects....
> > The Brain. Use it!"
>
> REALLY ?
> WE ARE BARELY A RUNG ABOVE THE TREE-CLIMBING APES
> AS
> FAR A INTELLIGENCE GOES.
> STRUCTURES LIKE THE PYRAMIDS ARE A TESTAMENT TO
> THE FACT THAT WE ARE NOT THE SMARTEST BEINGS THAT
> EVER ROAMED THIS PLANET.
>

I could see how you may think we are barely a rung above apes in intellect with your sense of logic. Believe it or not high level thinkers (unlike yourself) have paved the way for the luxuries you take for granted today. And as far as the pyramid talk, ill just ignore because your starting to get into some conspiracy theory with that bullshit.
> > "The Brain. Use it!"
>
> YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE.
> BY THE WAY, YOU ARE SADLY LOSING THIS DISCUSSION.
> :-)~


1. Please turn off your caps lock.
2. This isnt a dick measuring contest, try and write something that doesnt drop my IQ level 2 points every time i read it.
3. Stay on topic and focus!!! You can do it!

Is there or is there not a god?

It doesn't matter really. If there isn't a god, then that explains a lot. If there is a god, then there is enough evidence to show that he/she/it doesn't care a damn thing about you or me any of the other billions of people on the face of this earth. If there is a god, our (human) existence is probably just another insignificant nothing, perhaps even an unintended accident. So, get over yourselves and quit trying so hard to place such importance on your existence.

isthereagod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there or is there not a god?
>
> It doesn't matter really. If there isn't a god,
> then that explains a lot. If there is a god, then
> there is enough evidence to show that he/she/it
> doesn't care a damn thing about you or me any of
> the other billions of people on the face of this
> earth. If there is a god, our (human) existence
> is probably just another insignificant nothing,
> perhaps even an unintended accident. So, get over
> yourselves and quit trying so hard to place such
> importance on your existence.


Good point. Youre a bitch.

For the love of all things holy, please get the spelling of McLean correct.

It is big-M-small-c-big-l-e-a-n and is pronounced, "Mick-lane", not "Mick-leen."

McLean.

NOT Mclean, MacClean, MCLean, MacLean, McClean, Mr. Clean.

You are not welcome at McClean Bible Church because there is no such place.

Have ya ever taken a test, thought you got an A, and actually got an F?
You thuought you did well but only the teacher's standard mattered....

If you committed murder, and the judge was a loving and just judge, he could be crying during the judgment but he would still send ya to jail....

Loving and Kind also means honest and just- it just means God loves ya so much He'll tell ya the truth because like all things in life there are consequences....


God is kind and loving- Lon Solomon believes in the Bible which teaches that we have a loving but just God and that not one person has met the standard that declares a person righteous....in other words we all deserve honest judgement

ad if we are all honest we've all messed up and on top of that God sees our heart...pretty ugly stuff sometimes in there...lying, anger, greed, selfishness...etc etc etc....

The Bible says GOD ADORES YOU but HE HATES sin- and judges it honestly...

The Bible says the penalty for sin is DEATH...either you pay that penalty or it gets paid 4 ya....just like a debt...if ya owe money it's only right for you to have to pay it...if someone else pays it 4 ya, you are free to go...

If ya don't accept their gift...you STILL have to pay for it...

Jesus died for ya...He paid your debt....if ya don't accept it... you are choosing to pay a price that you can't afford on your own...

That is what Lon was teaching from the BIBLE...

In other words, if this is true...it would be more than spiritually criminal for Lon to preach otherwise...

THat's like getting all the wrong answers on your PASS/FAIL test and your friend not telling you you got them wrong not to hurt your feelings- result= YOU FAIL...
OR

Your friend tells you there is no way you are gona pass- YOU GET ANGRY AND LEAVE...

He was just trying to give ya the answer key to a test we all fail...

Hi Karen - I totally understand how you feel. That being said I also have to say this... Many Pastors are so called "feel good pastors". Joel Osteen is a perfect example - They only teach/tell us things that make us feel good....It's a good start ... sort of a piece of the pie so to speak but it is not the whole pie. We need to know and understand not only God's Love for us but also that He is our Judge and His wrath. We need to know about hell (because it is real and it does exist). We need to know about marriage being between a man and a woman....we need to know that abortion/taking a life that God has given us is wrong...We need to know the 10 Commandments... We are loved by a Wonderful God who sent His only Son (Jesus) to die for our sins (John 3:16). We are saved by His Grace and His Grace Alone....Not thru works or deeds. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. (John 14:6) So if a person (no matter who/what) does not accept Jesus as their personal Savior they will not enter into Heaven - there are only 2 choices (Heaven or Hell). Please don't take my word for it - you can read it for yourself in the Bible...I've challenged people and pastors before...God's Word is the Truth and the Devil is a Liar. It's all in the Bible and it's our pastor's calling/job to teach us ...to inform us....to lead us to the God's Word/The Bible... Sometimes we need to be convicted, It's our responsibility to read God's Word and stay in it. On judgement day we will stand alone ...we won't be able to point any fingers...we will be held accountable for our actions. I hope this helps...I pray that you and your friends are in a good Bible Believing Church and I pray that the Holy Spirit is working in your lives. God Bless You Karen. By the way - I don't attend McClean Bible Church - I just came accross their website and saw your post....It was laid on my heart to answer it. xo

God is not whatever you want him to be because then you would be your own God.

In the cases of allah and buhda, these God's are manufactured God's and therefore are figments of peoples immagination. And don't start in on me about Mohammed who was an actual man. All muslims and hindus are going to hell.

In fact, many who call themselves christians are going to hell because they didn't actually ask Jesus to be their Lord And Savior. It's a one on one with Jesus himself and believe me there is nothing in or of this world that will fill that void in your heart like Jesus Christ.

Hey now listen, God is Love. He gave his only son that whoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. The shed blood of Jesus is the only adequate atonement for our sins. The stain of sin must be washed from us because God does not allow uncleansed soles into heaven.

Preachers should boldly denounce homosexuality but not homosexuals. Preachers should preach against all sin as well as imparting the knowledge and wisdom of GOD. In other words the whole word.

I'm not convinced that Lon Solomon is preaching the whole word because many times I've heard him say "we at Mclean Bible Church believe this or believe that"

It's not what "we at any church believe" it's "We teach the holy bible from cover to cover and it is God's intention that you believe all of it' and ask Jesus Christ into your heart.

Once we have been saved we need no longer worry about anything including accountability for our sins. Jesus paid for all of them to be removed from us. We as humans are totally unable to earn a place in heaven.

The people who will be held accountable and judged will be all those who rejected the best sacrifice ever from Jesus to be saved from eternal damnation.

"God is not whatever you want him to be because then you would be your own God."

That's what canonization is for. So somebody else can tell you on their terms.

He may have meant Mr. Clean. See the Christian symbolism.

Knock and the door will open..

Seek and you will find....

Ask and you'll be given the key to this world of mine

I'll be waiting here with my arms unfurled

waiting just for you

welcome to my world

Jesus is waiting, but be ready for he will come like a thief in the night

for no man will know the day or the hour.

God did not send Jesus to condemn the world for it was already condemned

He sent his Son to save the world.

go ahead ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior now-you can do it!!!

@oinky - only if you ALLOW someone to tell you that. MLK is DEAD ON RIGHT about Christ - has nothing AT ALL to do with a church building or who's saying what - all boils down to YOUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.

"Jesus is waiting, but be ready for he will come like a thief in the night"

You have him confused with the guy with the pitchfork.

village idiot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some friends of mine used to attend there until
> they moved out of the area. They told me that
> there was a list of expeditures every week in a
> bulletin so you could see exactly where money was
> being spent. This bulletin was available to
> everybody.


In any organization or business, there are always two sets of accounting books. Which one were they looking at???

Did it have pretty pictures???

It was the book with numbers not pictures.

Only an idiot would go to church, give money to that church, and read the christian bible which was directly stolen from Egyptian religious texts.

Churches are just money making social clubs. They are full of some of the most self righteous hypocritical people I have ever met. They rarely show intellectual concern for the scriptures or compassion for fellow human beings. Heaven forbid you have a different cultural view of God.

Jesus is my Lord and Savior. Having said that I agree with "cobrakai"

I love the word of God, but had to stop attending two different Bible studies at MBC.

One of them actually cost money. On my first night before paying I was angered by the leader who had been the Redskins' chaplain. People there told me that as though this guy was supposed to be something special.

That was my first red flag since "God is no respector of persons". He doesn't favor anyone over anyone else reguardless if they believe in him or not.

This chaplain showed a series of slides on a big screen one of which depicted a wrinkled old woman, whom he claimed was his grandmother, exposing her cleavage. Another showed a bald guy sitting on a toilet completely naked.

Maybe this chaplain preached too many sermons in the Redskins locker room.

The Sandusky scandal came out a few years later only to remind me of bible study at MBC.

Before the second bible study I showed up early and returned the materials they had given me with a note and no payment basically telling them if they want to know how to study the bible to call me.

The other study was led by a man who bragged about how much money he made and the fact that he'd been offered a full time position teaching at the church and mentoring teens.

He said he just wouldn't take a pay cut. I don't know the exact scripture but Clint Eastwood had a line in this movie "Pale Horse" I think that went something like this. "man cannot worship God and mammon both". I wasn't too upset about that but combined with another attendee's harsh admonishment to me for not volunteering to counsel teenagers made it easy for me to just walk away.

I've said it before. "religion is the most evil thing that ever happened to mankind. Just consider all the murder and wars over relgious disputes in the course of history.

I currently am without a congregation and a church building to go to but have come to realize the church is in anyone who believes in Jesus Christ, and sometimes it seems a little lonely.

Jesus said "my grace is sufficient for you".

Pastors and Churches are much like politicians and government, in that they should all be constantly viewed with some skepticism.

Yes many Pastors and sects of Christianity are frauds, spend to much time passing judgment on people and little on actual Bible education. However, that does not make Christianity inherently bad. It is man who is inherently flawed and abuses the word of God to empower himself. There are some are very good Pastors but hard to find because they work out of small churches. Often small because they do tend to have a more fundamentalist message which makes people uncomfortable. However, they are good because they focus on teaching historical contexts of the bible relating them to today’s world. The Old Testament is based on Eastern culture which is not easy for Westerners to easily understand without more education.

By doing this it empowers an individual in today’s world think about and interpret Gods word for themselves.

Just for the record, back to "Karen" the original poster. That is a big fat lie and never EVER happened. I have no idea what her motivation was for her big fat lie (personal sour grapes of some sort, no doubt) and everyone is welcome to debate the merits of chuch, but that post is pure BS.

MLK republican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've said it before. "religion is the most evil
> thing that ever happened to mankind. Just consider
> all the murder and wars over relgious disputes in
> the course of history.
>

This is an incredibly ignorant statement that I hear parroted over and over again, mostly by people with a very poor grasp of history. Are we really to believe that if not for religion all of mankind would be holding hands and singing Cumbaya under a rainbow? Give me a freakin' break.

Humans fight and argue with other humans, especially those with beliefs different from their own. Its in our nature, hardwired into our brains. If we weren't fighting over religion then we would be fighting over something else.

Ex. Communism is an ATHEISTIC system, and its responsible for more murder, death, and oppression than all of the religions of the world combined. And its not even close.

"Many have quarreled about religion that never practiced it." Benjamin Franklin. Who likely would be stunned by the hypocritical, ironic anti-Christian vitiol delivered above.

"It's call McLean BIBLE Church. The doctrine is based on what the BIBLE says. I suggest you try a Catholic Church, where they don't care what you do or what you believe as long as your filling the offering plate."

From reading your post God isn't the only one judging.

Kardiac17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "It's call McLean BIBLE Church. The doctrine is
> based on what the BIBLE says. I suggest you try a
> Catholic Church, where they don't care what you do
> or what you believe as long as your filling the
> offering plate."
>
> From reading your post God isn't the only one
> judging.


+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

I, along with about 30,000 other folks attend MBC every week. I highly recommnend it. At the time in question from the OP, Lon was preaching on his series "People Jesus Met". At about the time that the OP says, one of Lon's messages was titled "The Exclusivity of Christ for Salvation" (sermon notes can be found here: http://www.mcleanbible.org/uploads/pjmpt47.pdf). So it is certainly possible, if not probable that the OP is correct that Lon did preach this. But the OP's own bias and feelings drip from her post. Lon does preach that the Bible is the written Word of God. If you want feel good, non-judgemental message where everyone but mass murderers get into Heaven, go to a Methodist of Presbyterian church, or as said above, a Catholic Church.

This past week's sermon was on "The Fear of God". It was most excellent (online video found here: http://www.mcleanbible.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=125674&programId=147400). Sodom & Gohmorrah are in the process of being destroyed for mocking God (quite timely IMO). This sermon is part of a series on the Book of Genesis. If you really want to learn, start at part 1 of this series and work your way up. It is enlightening, engaging and entertaining.

No even in the Top 5

You have absolutely no idea what my statement means.

Religion is a manmade philosophy of principles to live by and has nothing to do with a relationship with God or anything that God espouses unless by coincidence or if it has been hyjacked from God's holy word.

Once God's word has been added to or subtracted from it has been completely defiled and is no longer God's word.

All governments operate according to some kind of religious philosophy or another including the religion of the new world order liberal government of these Divided States Of America.

So absolutely "not even in the top 5" you are wrong.

Lon Solomon does preach the Holy Bible and then some. I've heard him say too many times "we at MBC believe this or that about the holy word". One time should have sufficed for me to leave because Lon has added an element of cultism and therefore the word at Mclean BC is no longer pure.

Another thing, all 9 spiritual gifts are in practice today contrary to what I've heard L. Solomon say while attending service there.

Having said that does not mean that people who attend MBC are not saved. Of course many of them are just as in the catholic cult church. Salvation is 100% between the individual and God through the precious cleansing blood of Jesus.

Finally, it is impossible for humans to do anything without making judgements.

Judgeing MBC to not be right for me for reasons I have stated does not mean I'm casting stones at MBC for self righteous reasons which would be judgement not according to the holy word.

I speak against that church because I'm quite sure that it is not the path of glorifying God that the holy spirit wants me on.

MLK republican Wrote:

>
> Lon Solomon does preach the Holy Bible and then
> some. I've heard him say too many times "we at MBC
> believe this or that about the holy word". One
> time should have sufficed for me to leave because
> Lon has added an element of cultism and therefore
> the word at Mclean BC is no longer pure.
>

You have no idea what you are talking about. Your absurd conclusions must come from a faulty view of interpretation of Scripture or some pre-determined agenda.

I direct you to pages 1-2 of http://www.mcleanbible.org/uploads/WhatWeTeach.pdf for further reading.

You gotta have a little respect for cults. Yeah, these wack jobs are nuttier than squirrel shit, but they are not afraid to follow through. How many mother fuckers you know that will drink some poison for Jesus? I mean, he died for you, least you can do is repay the toll. Just sayin'...

I'm not going to invest any more time in MBC teachings.

I wish I could recommend a better church for you but I can't because we are past the end of the age of the church as far as congregations and buildings go.

Most churches are corrupt now including MBC. MBC was quite good before the remodel at Balls Hill Rd. in the sixties and seventies.

Even my last church which was CNV in Oakton has changed it's name and something doesn't seem right. Uplifting scripture is wonderful but preaching against sin must still include preaching against homosexuality as well as other sins like murder(abortion).

"Hey Zeus" has a pretty good handle on the situation with today's churches. He's just a few posts back.

May God Bless you abundantly.

MLK republican Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I wish I could recommend a better church for you
> but I can't because we are past the end of the age
> of the church as far as congregations and
> buildings go.
>

Ah, OK bud. Thanks, that's all I need to know.

I took a drive through the MBC complex a few years ago. I sensed that it's the Launch Complex for the next batch of Hale-Bopp Comet passengers. Welcome aboard, zombies! ...not a sermon -just the truth...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2013 06:04AM by zero personality.

You and your friends don't understand God and His laws. You need a seeker church. Slowly, you will begin to understand God's way.

If you're looking for a cult to join, consider the DNC and its members undying loyalty to, and worship of, the Obamessiah and Clintoons.

Place freaks me out.