Who The Hell is Working on FCPS Buses? Needs to be Fired!

Christ! What a crock of BS. Hire somebody who can manage the buses. This is the biggest waste of tax dollars. I'm being to question how safe our buses are in good weather?

We can't add a couple of cans of additive to the buses when it gets cold? WV, MD and many VA schools systems have NO problems with their buses!

.
Attachments:

Just got this in e-mail. Unbelievable.

"A message from FAIRFAX COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS
FCPS is experiencing significant mechanical problems with a number of buses across the county this morning due to the freezing temperatures. Some of these buses will be late picking up students; some may be very late. Parents are advised to take precautions to ensure that their children are not standing outside in the cold for extended periods of time. Mechanics, transportation supervisors, and drivers are working to the best of their ability to get the buses running and on time.

Thank you for your patience and understanding, and we apologize for the delays."

Why do I think this is a manufactured "Christie traffic jam?" Just trying to make an excuse for closing the big cluster F of closing the schools yesterday.

Sorry, I don't work in the cold. Union rules say I don't have to work unless temp is between 65-75 degrees. Think I'll take another day off!

I live south of Richmond and our buses are fine. It's 9 degrees this morning and no problems. Fairfax must have tons more money to pour into their buses then our little school system. You think they would have been more prepared for this kind of cold.

Score another one for FCPS. I saw that whole system going downhill and got my family out of there.

FCPS Mechanic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, I don't work in the cold. Union rules say
> I don't have to work unless temp is between 65-75
> degrees. Think I'll take another day off!

Yup, probably some pissed off mechanics who didn't graduate high school throwing a temperature tantrum about having to work today.

"I'll show them what happens when I don't get a Friday snow day off."

Refugee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live south of Richmond and our buses are fine.
> It's 9 degrees this morning and no problems.
> Fairfax must have tons more money to pour into
> their buses then our little school system. You
> think they would have been more prepared for this
> kind of cold.
>
> Score another one for FCPS. I saw that whole
> system going downhill and got my family out of
> there.

Exactly!

There are school systems are all VA with the same temps and they don't have ANY problems.

This is why they should've just a closed SCHOOL! 200 buses is ridiculous. Everyone else is closed. FCPS is just mad because all of us students threatened them to close.

Got 8 year olds freezing to death because they're waiting for the bus that isn't coming for at least 15 minutes and their parents have to work. Smh

Its called chemistry and physics. Unless the parents are willing to pony up in property taxes for new buses and to pay the teachers, this is why yesterday school was closed.

But as is the custom, the parasites who "work" around here will continue to try to get something for nothing

Fuckwithmeyouknowigotit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is why they should've just a closed SCHOOL!
> 200 buses is ridiculous. Everyone else is closed.
> FCPS is just mad because all of us students
> threatened them to close.

Every one else with the same temperatures in VA is NOT closed! Many of the school in WV with much colder temps are having NO problems.

Back in the 80's and 90's it got MUCH colder and the county had NO problems operating the same fleet of buses.

ditto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its called chemistry and physics. Unless the
> parents are willing to pony up in property taxes
> for new buses and to pay the teachers, this is why
> yesterday school was closed.
>
> But as is the custom, the parasites who "work"
> around here will continue to try to get something
> for nothing

Fairfax county is one of the highest property taxes in VA. Why are buses working here and they are working perfectly fine in backwoods counties that don't charge shit for property taxes. Something is very wrong with the bus management.

FCPS Mechanic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, I don't work in the cold. Union rules say
> I don't have to work unless temp is between 65-75
> degrees. Think I'll take another day off!


oh really? and what union would that be?

get edumacated Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FCPS Mechanic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sorry, I don't work in the cold. Union rules
> say
> > I don't have to work unless temp is between
> 65-75
> > degrees. Think I'll take another day off!
>
>
> oh really? and what union would that be?

The Teamsters of course- http://driveupstandards.org/ Read up.

Not Closed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fuckwithmeyouknowigotit Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is why they should've just a closed
> SCHOOL!
> > 200 buses is ridiculous. Everyone else is
> closed.
> > FCPS is just mad because all of us students
> > threatened them to close.
>
> Every one else with the same temperatures in VA is
> NOT closed! Many of the school in WV with much
> colder temps are having NO problems.
>
> Back in the 80's and 90's it got MUCH colder and
> the county had NO problems operating the same
> fleet of buses.


That is part of the problem. Many of them are EXACTLY the same buses they were operating in the 90s. They get all the use out of them they can, and then some. And then stuff like this happens.

Safe Buses Now!
Attachments:

THIS IS RIDICULOUS MY CAR SLIPPED ON ICE 15 TIMES THIS MORNING. I WITNESSED ALMOST 3 ACCIDENTS AND THERE WAS A NICE PATCH OF ICE WAITING FOR ME IN MY PARKING SPOT THIS MORNING. Ryan you have let me and every student in FCPS down. Shame on you Ryan, shame on you.

>
> Fairfax county is one of the highest property
> taxes in VA. Why are buses working here and they
> are working perfectly fine in backwoods counties
> that don't charge shit for property taxes.
> Something is very wrong with the bus management.


For real. You would cry if you knew what we pay for property taxes here compared to FFX. Not one issue this morning our kids went on time.

Fabiana Arzubiaga Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THIS IS RIDICULOUS MY CAR SLIPPED ON ICE 15 TIMES
> THIS MORNING. I WITNESSED ALMOST 3 ACCIDENTS AND
> THERE WAS A NICE PATCH OF ICE WAITING FOR ME IN MY
> PARKING SPOT THIS MORNING. Ryan you have let me
> and every student in FCPS down. Shame on you Ryan,
> shame on you.

You're just upset because you didn't get to spend the day playing your new xBox game.

Metro Buses and Fairfax connector buses are running on time.

How the hell do they do that? LMAO

Fuckwithmeyouknowigotit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Got 8 year olds freezing to death because they're
> waiting for the bus that isn't coming for at least
> 15 minutes and their parents have to work. Smh


The parents need to make other arrangements with a neighbor or their job so that doesn't happen. It's the PARENTS responsibility to make sure their kid is prepared for weather or has adequate shelter. They shouldn't close schools b/c some parents don't want to go the extra mile to make sure their kid is ok. Ridiculous.

You shouldn't be leaving kids by themselves at a bus stop that long anyways. I wouldn't at least. Not these days.

Concerns About Buses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who The Hell is Working on FCPS Buses? Needs to
> be Fired!
>
> Christ! What a crock of BS. Hire somebody who can
> manage the buses. This is the biggest waste of
> tax dollars. I'm being to question how safe our
> buses are in good weather?
>
> We can't add a couple of cans of additive to the
> buses when it gets cold? WV, MD and many VA
> schools systems have NO problems with their buses!


+ 1 million

I'm here to bitch. Bitch, bitch, bitch. That's all I have to do today.
Everybody else stop bitching right now. I OWN bitching.

Just fix the buses so they can work below 30 degrees. All of the Metro buses and Fairfax connector buses worked?

7/8 of the VA school buses worked in 9 degrees. Southern VA countries had 5 degrees no problems.

I think there are something like 700 buses spread over 400 square miles. Are you going to donate to build outlet farms for that many locations? for the one winter something like this happens? how much do you think a cold weather bus that can deal with June/August temps in NOVA would cost? after all the stupid regulations and overengineering that the liberal beaurocrats would ladel on them--maybe you want them to have 4 wheel drive too.

"ust trying to make an excuse for closing the big cluster F of closing the schools yesterday"

^^ This.


"how much do you think a cold weather bus that can deal with June/August temps in NOVA would cost?"

It's called a diesel bus, numbnutz.

The reality is that Fairfax County Schools would rather spend millions on turf fields than routine maintenance on it's bus fleet. Priorities, people...

Oh, and diesel fuel is regularly upgraded to winter blends so that it flows, even at sub zero temps. Its called chemistry...

a) How does everyone know that all other school districts in VA had NO problems? You don't and are just making it up.
b) FCPS has plenty of money to maintain their fleet of buses. It's all just priorities. Numerous people bitch and moan that they have any buses- "make the kids walk." A recurring theme.
c) When FCPS wants to spend money on upgrading to new buses people bitch and complain that it is a waste to buy new equipment.


FCPS operates one of the largest publicly owned fleets in the country.
More than 1,500 school buses, using 6,500 separate routes, transport more
than 110,000 students to school each day. The average FCPS bus is 8.1 years old. Depending on the school district budget, FCPS purchases an average of 95 buses a year. When it comes time to replace a bus, the FCPS transportation department purchases buses that meet or exceed federal and Virginia state safety standards, have a record of reliability, have low projected average total cost of ownership with durable parts to minimize down time, and is sold by a dealership that provides an acceptable level of service and responsiveness. The average purchase price for a new bus is $114,000.

Might as well plan on FCPS shutting down next week. Overnite temps predicted to be in single digits to mid teens.

"How does everyone know that all other school districts in VA had NO problems"

Nice strawman, numbnutz. Others are pointing out that other school districts in VA, MD, PA, & WV with the same weather were somehow able to open before FFX. Got it?

"Numerous people bitch and moan that they have any buses- "make the kids walk." "

Again, WTF? Some bus routes are a bit lax, but seriously - you're stupid.

"When FCPS wants to spend money on upgrading to new buses people bitch and complain that it is a waste to buy new equipment"

No, numbnutz, it's when $$$ are wasted on turf fields, lights, "sustainability officers" and "diversity programs" instead of heat, water, and transportation.

ditto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think there are something like 700 buses spread
> over 400 square miles. Are you going to donate to
> build outlet farms for that many locations? for
> the one winter something like this happens? how
> much do you think a cold weather bus that can deal
> with June/August temps in NOVA would cost? after
> all the stupid regulations and overengineering
> that the liberal beaurocrats would ladel on
> them--maybe you want them to have 4 wheel drive
> too.

So how come the Fairfax Connector and Metrobus buses don't have problems in this kind of weather? The FCPS bus lot is just up the street from the bus lot for Fairfax Connector and Metro....

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice strawman, numbnutz. Others are pointing out
> that other school districts in VA, MD, PA, & WV
> with the same weather were somehow able to open
> before FFX. Got it?

Hmmm... Garrett Co., MD hasn't had school this week. Neither has Loudoun County. Everyone trying to make it out like FCPS is unique in how they are handling the weather. They are not. Prince William has handled exactly like FCPS.


> Again, WTF? Some bus routes are a bit lax, but
> seriously - you're stupid.

Yes, it's stupid but it's not what I say. Go search some old threads about walking distance controversies. You'll see what I'm talking about.


> No, numbnutz, it's when $$$ are wasted on turf
> fields, lights, "sustainability officers" and
> "diversity programs" instead of heat, water, and
> transportation.

You really think if FCPS announced they wanted to increase spending to upgrade the 60% of their bus fleet that will be outdated by FY2018 no one would whine and complain? Dream on. The bitching would be legendary.

"Garrett Co., MD hasn't had school this week"

So? Montgomery Cty MD has had school. You have a point?

"it's stupid but it's not what I say"

It's exactly what you said, and it's irrelevant to this.

"You really think if FCPS announced they wanted to increase spending to upgrade the 60% of their bus fleet"

WTF are you talking about now? Here's a clue: a two man team could've run fuel/pressure checks on the entire down volume in the 3 days "off", but that's clearly not an FCPS priority. Turf fields, OTOH...

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Garrett Co., MD hasn't had school this week"
>
> So? Montgomery Cty MD has had school. You have a
> point?

Nice of you to point that out, but conveniently ignore how he mentioned Loudoun County. Cherry picking much?

> "it's stupid but it's not what I say"
>
> It's exactly what you said, and it's irrelevant to
> this.

I agree that this doesn't have much to do with the current conversation.

> "You really think if FCPS announced they wanted to
> increase spending to upgrade the 60% of their bus
> fleet"
>
> WTF are you talking about now? Here's a clue: a
> two man team could've run fuel/pressure checks on
> the entire down volume in the 3 days "off", but
> that's clearly not an FCPS priority. Turf fields,
> OTOH...

Should this two man team be rotating through the entire fleet constantly checking? Wouldn't that be a bit expensive? If not, how often should they be doing it? Is the county bus fleet commonly only 86.67% mission capable? Is there anything extraordinary going on right now to cause a higher failure rate?

Jerk your knee any harder and you're going to need some ligaments repaired.

"Nice of you to point that out, but conveniently ignore how he mentioned Loudoun County. Cherry picking much?"

Not at all. It also mentioned Garrett Co., MD. What you're ignoring is that the issue here (according to the FCPS spokeschimp) is TEMPERATURES, not road conditions, and the reality is that similar (and colder) TEMPERATURES cover much of the Eastern US - even in more southern climes where (magically?) busses seem to be operating.

"Should this two man team be rotating through the entire fleet constantly checking? Wouldn't that be a bit expensive"

???? Regular maintenance should (note that word) cover colder temps. If indeed "freezing brakes" (what FCPS claims) is a problem, then the busses are not even getting a minimal level of maintenance, as water in brake lines is a serious issue - regardless of temperatures/climate.

It's all about the priorities - do we have school, or do we have turf fields/lights/sustainability offices/foreign liasons/etc? (here's a clue: it's far, far cheaper to pay a few teams of techs than it is administrators), but that won't satisfy the PR side of the coin...

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Nice of you to point that out, but conveniently
> ignore how he mentioned Loudoun County. Cherry
> picking much?"
>
> Not at all. It also mentioned Garrett Co., MD.
> What you're ignoring is that the issue here
> (according to the FCPS spokeschimp) is
> TEMPERATURES, not road conditions, and the reality
> is that similar (and colder) TEMPERATURES cover
> much of the Eastern US - even in more southern
> climes where (magically?) busses seem to be
> operating.


> "Should this two man team be rotating through the
> entire fleet constantly checking? Wouldn't that be
> a bit expensive"
>
> ???? Regular maintenance should (note that word)
> cover colder temps. If indeed "freezing brakes"
> (what FCPS claims) is a problem, then the busses
> are not even getting a minimal level of
> maintenance, as water in brake lines is a serious
> issue - regardless of temperatures/climate.

First of all, I was asking you to define what this two man team should be doing. You said they could do one specific thing on the entire fleet in three days... You know, I didn't even bother to do the math on that...

Two man team - three days - fifteen hundred busses. Let's see, that's 500 busses a day. Let's assume that we're paying them overtime and they're working ten hours. That means they're doing fifty busses an hour. That's one minute and six seconds per bus. That's one hell of a team you've got.

Yeah, you're full of hyperbole and shit. Probably overflowing with both.

I haven't seen anything from FCPS about freezing brakes. You know, there are other ways brakes can freeze than water in brake lines. I'd imagine with all the blowing snow, some collected on the calipers & rotors and froze them together... How does regular maintenance prevent that? Will your two man team be thawing the exterior components in addition to checking fuel pressure?

Obviously this has nothing to do with the fact that we've had single digit lows for several days running for the first time in quite a while. It's all because we don't have roving bands of two man teams scrutinizing fifty busses an hour.

> It's all about the priorities - do we have school,
> or do we have turf fields/lights/sustainability
> offices/foreign liasons/etc? (here's a clue: it's
> far, far cheaper to pay a few teams of techs than
> it is administrators), but that won't satisfy the
> PR side of the coin...

Get a clue, the Government doesn't focus on one single thing at a time. There's plenty of room in the budget to pay for facilities, lights, fields, busses, and maintenance.

Fuckwithmeyouknowigotit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is why they should've just a closed SCHOOL!
> 200 buses is ridiculous. Everyone else is closed.
> FCPS is just mad because all of us students
> threatened them to close.

Everyone else is NOT closed. STFU.

I was in Winchester this morning and it was 6 degrees and the public schools are open.

PS- They also had about twice the amount of snow as Fairfax.

"First of all, I was asking you to define what this two man team should be doing"

I did, but reading > you.

"Two man team - three days - fifteen hundred busses"

Again, reading > you. 2 man team and the extra out of service busses =/= 1,500.

"I haven't seen anything from FCPS about freezing brakes"

Here, let me google that for you: "“The lower temps and wind chill caused brake lines and fuel lines to freeze up and batteries to quit that were close to their end of useful life,” Platenberg said."

You're welcome. Oh, and "wind chill" doesn't mean jack. FCPS fails again.

"thawing the exterior components" No, numbnutz. Thomas uses zero fluid F/R suspensions, mechanical accessories, and so forth - specifically to accommodate subfreezing temps.

" There's plenty of room in the budget to pay for facilities, lights, fields, busses, and maintenance"

If you say so. FWIW, why didn't they do it then?

"public schools are open"

Well of course they are. Only Fairfax County is experiencing this unique weather. Everywhere else it's 50 & sunny...

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fuckwithmeyouknowigotit Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is why they should've just a closed
> SCHOOL!
> > 200 buses is ridiculous. Everyone else is
> closed.
> > FCPS is just mad because all of us students
> > threatened them to close.
>
> Everyone else is NOT closed. STFU.
>
> I was in Winchester this morning and it was 6
> degrees and the public schools are open.
>
> PS- They also had about twice the amount of snow
> as Fairfax.

Wrong

According to NOAA, Fairfax and Frederick Counties had similar amounts of snow.

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/lwx/events/snowmaps/

Sorry, but my priority is providing free luxury housing, food, and services for undocumented immigrants. You taxpayers can STFU!

So let me get this straight Mr. Cost Effective Reality. Everytime we have a spate of subfreezing temps, we give the kids three days off, and out go the two gomers to drive all over the county to check the 1500 busses. That sounds like a good plan. . .

And on the issue of cold/weather hot weather, or county vs. transit busses--again, if money is no object, or busses are the only thing you spend it on, or you don't have to provide for a whole range of weather and safety contingencies, then yep, that's easy to solve.

If you are in an entirely other business (education) and have to deal with sidestreets the transit system doesn't even bother with, and have temperature ranging from below zero to above 100 degrees over the course of the school year, and are not allowed to raise property taxes, then you have a pretty difficult problem to solve

9eJw7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> According to NOAA, Fairfax and Frederick Counties
> had similar amounts of snow.
>
>

Well you obviously cant read (probably from missing so many days of school)

That map shows 4.3 inches in Fairfax City location and 7.2 inches in Winchester.

Note too the CWG "temps map" shows Va Beach w/the same temps as Fairfax, yet somehow they can get their busses started...

MAAAGGGICCC!!!!

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "First of all, I was asking you to define what
> this two man team should be doing"
>
> I did, but reading > you.

Oh, that's right, you said "regular maintenance". That's ultra specific. Why do we have administrators when you could tell everyone how to do everything!

> "Two man team - three days - fifteen hundred
> busses"
>
> Again, reading > you. 2 man team and the extra out
> of service busses =/= 1,500.

Because it was completely and totally obvious which 200 of the 1500 were going to be out of service without inspecting them. They should have just walked through the lots looking for the big signs in the windows that said "FROZEN BRAKES" and "DEAD BATTERY". Again, you need to be in charge because you know everything!

> "I haven't seen anything from FCPS about freezing
> brakes"
>
> Here, let me google that for you: "“The lower
> temps and wind chill caused brake lines and fuel
> lines to freeze up and batteries to quit that were
> close to their end of useful life,” Platenberg
> said."

Here's another quote for you...

"Don't believe everything on the internet. People commonly make things up to support their arguments." - Abraham Lincoln.

I don't want a quote, dumbass, I want a source.

> You're welcome. Oh, and "wind chill" doesn't mean
> jack. FCPS fails again.
>
> "thawing the exterior components" No, numbnutz.
> Thomas uses zero fluid F/R suspensions, mechanical
> accessories, and so forth - specifically to
> accommodate subfreezing temps.

Wow. Can you clarify a few things for me...

1 - Who is Thomas?
2 - How much extra is all this stuff?
3 - Do Fairfax County busses already have that?
4 - If not, why should they?

> " There's plenty of room in the budget to pay for
> facilities, lights, fields, busses, and
> maintenance"
>
> If you say so. FWIW, why didn't they do it then?

Maybe because their regular maintenance schedule doesn't take into consideration extraordinary events. I bet they aren't regularly checking the air-filters just in case the airborne particulate count skyrockets due to massive forest fires throughout Fairfax County too.

Answer me this, how many times before now have the busses suffered from a 13.33% failure rate? I don't recall this situation being a regular occurance that would require cutting funding to everything else except bus maintenance.

"That sounds like a good plan. . ."

So, you just unwilling or unable to actually read what others post, and just rant on?

Got it.

The balance of your post has already been answered. Reality > you.

I don't want a quote, dumbass, I want a source.

You got it. Ever hear of "google"?

Wow. Can you clarify a few things for me...

1 - Who is Thomas?
2 - How much extra is all this stuff?
3 - Do Fairfax County busses already have that?
4 - If not, why should they?

Bus manufacturer.
$0.00
Yes

You're welcome.

"consideration extraordinary events"

Subfreezing temps are "extraordinary events"? Where, Orlando?

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 9eJw7 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > >
> > According to NOAA, Fairfax and Frederick
> Counties
> > had similar amounts of snow.
> >
> >
>
> Well you obviously cant read (probably from
> missing so many days of school)
>
> That map shows 4.3 inches in Fairfax City location
> and 7.2 inches in Winchester.

I didn't know Springfield/Franconia wasn't in Fairfax County. It's amazing how facts that don't support your agenda don't exist.

Just in case you've missed it, I'm attaching a picture from the page pointing out the Springfield total. I've added some helpful pointers in case you're having trouble seeing it.
Attachments:

So your claim, "Reality" is that the two man crew can solve the problem of the down busses by telepathy? How else do they know the busses are down without testing 1500 county wide?

But I can see that your preferred method of "argument" is insult and red herring. That's probably why simple things like math and logic elude your small brain

"So your claim, "Reality" is that the two man crew can solve the problem of the down busses by telepathy"

So you still are unable/unwilling to actually read. I do feel a bit sorry for you...

"That map shows 4.3 inches in Fairfax City location
> and 7.2 inches in Winchester.

I didn't know Springfield/Franconia wasn't in Fairfax County"

That's beclowning there.

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't want a quote, dumbass, I want a source.
>
> You got it. Ever hear of "google"?

I went to Google. All I saw was a logo, a search box, and some other stuff. There's nothing there supporting your argument. I'm not doing your work for you, jackass. Show me where he says that.

> Wow. Can you clarify a few things for me...
>
> 1 - Who is Thomas?
> 2 - How much extra is all this stuff?
> 3 - Do Fairfax County busses already have that?
> 4 - If not, why should they?
>
> Bus manufacturer.
> $0.00
> Yes
>
> You're welcome.

Again, do you have a source for that? Yeah, I looked at the Google page again. It's still the same thing.

How about you provide your sources instead of making someone else do your work for you. Of course, that just shows how ready you are to be the boss of everything - no need to actually do anything when you can make everyone else do what you should be doing.

"is insult" followed by "elude your small brain"

That's even funnier. But you still can't read.

W...T...F...? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "consideration extraordinary events"
>
> Subfreezing temps are "extraordinary events"?
> Where, Orlando?

Single digit lows for several days running are extraordinary for this area. If you haven't noticed, we don't live in North Dakota so we don't deal with this type of thing on a regular basis.

"I went to Google. All I saw was a logo, a search box, and some other stuff"

Your favorite porn links?

"Single digit lows for several days running are extraordinary for this area"

Got proof?

Of course you don't. This might help - note more Januarys with subfreezing (that means below freezing) "averages" than above freezing over the last 1/3 of the 20th century:

http://www.sercc.com/cgi-bin/sercc/cliMAIN.pl?va8737

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Single digit lows for several days running are
> extraordinary for this area"
>
> Got proof?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/01/06/crazy-cold-polar-blast-likely-to-rank-among-d-c-areas-coldest-in-decades/

There's an entire section on the normal temperature ranges in the area, including quotations such as...

"Looking at lows, we see a similar distribution between lows in the teens by year compared to lows in the single digits. Teens are to be expected, single digits not necessarily."

"Lows in the single digits or colder average 0.7 times per year."

That's how you do it, smartass.

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of course you don't. This might help - note more
> Januarys with subfreezing (that means below
> freezing) "averages" than above freezing over the
> last 1/3 of the 20th century:
>
> http://www.sercc.com/cgi-bin/sercc/cliMAIN.pl?va87
> 37

Wow, you proved something completely different!

In fact, you're reenforcing my point - lows in the single digits are uncommon - the average January low is twenty six degrees - that's seventeen degrees above single digits!

Thanks for posting a link though, I do appreciate it.

I did read it, your answer it "Here's a clue: a two man team could've run fuel/pressure checks on the entire down volume in the 3 days "off", but that's clearly not an FCPS priority. Turf fields, OTOH..."

How do they know which busses are down without starting them all up and running them after events like the one we just had?

Some of these events wont be too bad, and so the drivers can just crank em up and see, from their various normal locations, which ones are faulty so replacements can be arranged.

But if the whole fleet has to be pretested to discover the "down volume" then the "down volume" has to be dealt with, that's a pretty big job two expect two guys to do across the county, when the alternative is to just WAIT for the circumstance to be over.

Your solution is stupid and doesn't make sense. No matter how many times you read it.

Plus the arbitrary "three days" only comes from exactly the current solution (WAIT), only with application to impassibility of roads.

They is clearly a problem when buses can't be started at 15 degrees.

Because we are certainly going to many school days a year with 15 degrees.

Yes, Fairfax county seems to be the only county with the bus issues.

THERE'S AN OBLIVIOUS PROBLEM WITH FCPS

Bus Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They is clearly a problem when buses can't be
> started at 15 degrees.
>
> Because we are certainly going to many school days
> a year with 15 degrees.
>
> Yes, Fairfax county seems to be the only county
> with the bus issues.
>
> THERE'S AN OBLIVIOUS PROBLEM WITH FCPS

Yes

it's

totally

and

completely

unprecedented

Bus Driver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> THERE'S AN OBLIVIOUS PROBLEM WITH FCPS

Was this a Freudian slip? I will give you time to look that up.

ditto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did read it, your answer it "Here's a clue: a
> two man team could've run fuel/pressure checks on
> the entire down volume in the 3 days "off", but
> that's clearly not an FCPS priority. Turf fields,
> OTOH..."
>
> How do they know which busses are down without
> starting them all up and running them after events
> like the one we just had?
>
> Some of these events wont be too bad, and so the
> drivers can just crank em up and see, from their
> various normal locations, which ones are faulty so
> replacements can be arranged.
>
> But if the whole fleet has to be pretested to
> discover the "down volume" then the "down volume"
> has to be dealt with, that's a pretty big job two
> expect two guys to do across the county, when the
> alternative is to just WAIT for the circumstance
> to be over.
>
> Your solution is stupid and doesn't make sense. No
> matter how many times you read it.
>
> Plus the arbitrary "three days" only comes from
> exactly the current solution (WAIT), only with
> application to impassibility of roads.


Both of you knuckleheads realize that the county has an $80 million/year division which does school bus maintenance right? It includes +250 full-time employees, and 4 big-ass maintenance facilities around the county, a road service and towing fleet, and a fancy computerized system for tracking repairs and scheduled maintenance for every bus and other vehicle operated by the county. You're talking like it's Gomer and Goober working out of the Mayberry garage. lol

"How do they know which busses are down without starting them all up and running them after events like the one we just had? "

Do you seriously believe that they just discovered which ones were inop this AM?

"But if the whole fleet"

"If"? News flash: this sort of failure isn't random in the least, and those who work w/FCPS that I know tell me that they're regularly oblivious to the real world.

"Your solution is stupid"

Brilliant. No, really. FWIW, I own & operate diesel powered equipment. You, not so much.

"only with application to impassibility of roads"

Not according to the FCPS spokeschimp. You have other insights?

"In fact, you're reenforcing my point - lows in the single digits are uncommon - the average January low is twenty six degrees - that's seventeen degrees above single digits"

So, since there are highs in the 60s, with averages @ 26, then there must be lows in ....
Math not your strong suit, I see.

"You're talking like it's Gomer and Goober working out of the Mayberry garage"

Incorrect. I'm pointing out that blaming bus conditions for no school is, in a word, stupid.

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "How do they know which busses are down without
> starting them all up and running them after events
> like the one we just had? "
>
> Do you seriously believe that they just discovered
> which ones were inop this AM?
>
> "But if the whole fleet"
>
> "If"? News flash: this sort of failure isn't
> random in the least, and those who work w/FCPS
> that I know tell me that they're regularly
> oblivious to the real world.
>
> "Your solution is stupid"
>
> Brilliant. No, really. FWIW, I own & operate
> diesel powered equipment. You, not so much.
>
> "only with application to impassibility of roads"
>
> Not according to the FCPS spokeschimp. You have
> other insights?

So I went ahead and googled your quote and found the discussion with the Fairfax County spokesman. No wonder you didn't want to point to it - it discusses a lot of the nuances about the story. You don't want facts and nuance, just hyperbole and knee-jerk idiocy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/fairfax-school-buses-wont-start-many-students-face-delays/2014/01/24/96d7088e-84ff-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html

Basically, this story says as follows:

"Over the past few days, more than 260 buses have had problems starting because of the weather"

Hmm, looks like they have been working on the vehicles during the time school was out...

"Platenberg said that the buses experienced various problems due to the extremely cold temperatures, including batteries that had died, frozen fuel lines and cracked windows."

Oh wow, a variety of problems. Looks like there's more to the story than the specific items you're getting bent out of shape about.

"Platenberg said that in single-digit temperatures, diesel fuel will congeal in the tank, which makes it difficult for the engine to turn over. To address this concern, Platenberg said that bus mechanics had been replacing fuel filters and using a different type of fuel to keep it liquid."

Oh wow, I guess they weren't using winter diesel. I wonder how often they've really needed it in the past...

"Fairfax has no centralized bus depot, like Montgomery County, and instead parks buses at scores of locations spread out around the county."

Hmm, so it's not like all the busses are centrally located where they can be easily analyzed en-masse. I wonder if that had any impact on the situation.

"He said some buses wouldn’t start at all and needed to be towed."

How about that.

"One Fairfax bus driver, who spoke on condition of anonymity to be candid, said that she’s had difficulty getting her bus started in the past. She also said that the buses tend to be drafty."

Well, yeah, that does look bad. I wonder why you hadn't mentioned anything about it previously? It sure would have helped you out. Of course, I'd expect there to be a few bad apples out of sixteen hundred.

> "In fact, you're reenforcing my point - lows in
> the single digits are uncommon - the average
> January low is twenty six degrees - that's
> seventeen degrees above single digits"
>
> So, since there are highs in the 60s, with
> averages @ 26, then there must be lows in ....
> Math not your strong suit, I see.

Wow, did you completely miss my post prior to that or conveniently ignore it since it rips your argument to shreds? I'll post it again just to be sure you don't miss it again...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/01/06/crazy-cold-polar-blast-likely-to-rank-among-d-c-areas-coldest-in-decades/

There's an entire section on the normal temperature ranges in the area, including quotations such as...

"Looking at lows, we see a similar distribution between lows in the teens by year compared to lows in the single digits. Teens are to be expected, single digits not necessarily."

"Lows in the single digits or colder average 0.7 times per year."

Wow, single digits are not necessarily expected and occur on average less than once per year. That's not once per week, not once per month, not even once per year.

Oh yeah, but since we had sixty degree days in January last year, obviously that means we'd have multiple single digit days this year. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

"Platenberg said that the buses experienced various problems due to the extremely cold temperatures, including batteries that had died, frozen fuel lines and cracked windows."

Sucks that we don't have some way to know when this is likely to happen.

Something like a service that predicts the weather and extreme temperatures in advance.

That would be really cool huh?

"You don't want facts and nuance, just hyperbole and knee-jerk idiocy"

Facts =/= "nuance". You then pick out a few quotes that prove exactly what I said - the maintenance people seem not to have focused on what would make a bus operable in cold temps, such as batteries and fuel filters/water separators. Gee, why would someone running diesel equipment want to focus on those very points in the winter?


"Platenberg said that in single-digit temperatures, diesel fuel will congeal in the tank"
Perhaps academicians should defer to technicians. Unaltered diesel fuel will gel at extremely cold temps - generally around 0 or below (the EN standard is -4F, while the ASTM standard is for a cloud point some 10F above the mean low for a given period. If the fuel does gel, a bit of kerosene readily solves the problem.
In this case, the PR spin is called "bullshit", not "news".

I prefer to get my weather from professionals, not "bloggers". YMMV. Last I checked, if one end of a scale is above 60 with a median in the 20s, the other end of the scale has to be quite a bit lower. It's called "math".

You, OTOH, are a silly keyboard warrior who thinks they're funny. Har har. Par for the FFU course, I suppose.

Why do have such crappy old buses? We've got SMART boards in every classroom, so many computers we can't keep track of the ones being pilfered, instructional coaches up the gazoo, etc. Buses just aren't sexy enough. In other systems, they understand that taking care of the basic infrastructure is the foundation of everything else.

stars blinding us Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do have such crappy old buses? We've got
> SMART boards in every classroom, so many computers
> we can't keep track of the ones being pilfered,
> instructional coaches up the gazoo, etc. Buses
> just aren't sexy enough. In other systems, they
> understand that taking care of the basic
> infrastructure is the foundation of everything
> else.


Agreed. Too much money on toys simply because someone else has them in their schools, and not enough left for the most important thing in public education - getting their butts in the desks!

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "You don't want facts and nuance, just hyperbole
> and knee-jerk idiocy"
>
> Facts =/= "nuance". You then pick out a few quotes
> that prove exactly what I said - the maintenance
> people seem not to have focused on what would make
> a bus operable in cold temps, such as batteries
> and fuel filters/water separators. Gee, why would
> someone running diesel equipment want to focus on
> those very points in the winter?

Perhaps because this has been an extraordinary occurrence, not that you want to admit it. I guess you live in Buffalo where the low temps are regularly in the single digits and every diesel pump dispenses EN 590 class D fuel.

You know, if these mechanics were as incompetent as you believe, completely unprepared for cold weather, you'd think we'd be regularly hearing about how the buses are out of order during the winter. Where are all the other times they've had hundreds of buses out of order? Why is this the first time we've heard about this? It's been cold before now. There were periods of cold last year.

No, you're right, the mechanics are morons who, if they got a clue, it would be the first time in their lives and they wouldn't know what to do with it. You really need to get over there and put things in order.

> "Platenberg said that in single-digit
> temperatures, diesel fuel will congeal in the
> tank"
> Perhaps academicians should defer to technicians.
> Unaltered diesel fuel will gel at extremely cold
> temps - generally around 0 or below (the EN
> standard is -4F, while the ASTM standard is for a
> cloud point some 10F above the mean low for a
> given period. If the fuel does gel, a bit of
> kerosene readily solves the problem.
> In this case, the PR spin is called "bullshit",
> not "news".

Oh, just add some kerosene? Wow, brilliant. I'll just go in my garage and get some kerosene to... Oh, wait, I don't have any in my garage. Let me go down to the Shell station and... Oh, wait, they don't have any either... Let me go to the Sheetz in Manassas and get some - boy that's a drive from Mount Vernon.

> I prefer to get my weather from professionals, not
> "bloggers". YMMV. Last I checked, if one end of a
> scale is above 60 with a median in the 20s, the
> other end of the scale has to be quite a bit
> lower. It's called "math".

The site doesn't say "median", it says "average". Average, in the absence of a specific identifier, usually refers to the mean. There's a huge difference between the mean and the median! I thought someone who knew everything would know something so simple.

Also, let's take a look at this list...

68, 63, 28, 27, 26, 25, 25, 24, 19

What's the mean?

33.89

What's the median?

26

What's the mode?

25

That list is full of double digit values. No single digit values in there.

Take a look at this link...

http://www.sercc.com/cgi-bin/sercc/cliMAIN.pl?va8737

At the bottom, it says the MEAN for January is 25.75 - That matches up pretty closely to the 25.7 shown in your list.

Sorry buddy, you're at home plate but you're using a cricket bat. Right idea, wrong tool.

> You, OTOH, are a silly keyboard warrior who thinks
> they're funny. Har har. Par for the FFU course, I
> suppose.

I don't think I'm funny. I do think you're an ass with an axe to grind. "FCPS sucks, they put down turf instead of being prepared for historically bad weather." I bet you'd be upset that the buses aren't amphibious to deal with flooding after a hurricane. Obviously all of this is because of Astroturf.

stars blinding us Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do have such crappy old buses? We've got
> SMART boards in every classroom, so many computers
> we can't keep track of the ones being pilfered,
> instructional coaches up the gazoo, etc. Buses
> just aren't sexy enough. In other systems, they
> understand that taking care of the basic
> infrastructure is the foundation of everything
> else.

+1

"Perhaps because this has been an extraordinary occurrence"
Well, the record lows date back decades, so no.

"live in Buffalo ... dispenses EN 590 class D fuel."
Which would be amazing, as EN is a European Standard. You, obviously an FCPS grad, can't find Buffalo on a map.

"mechanics were as incompetent as you believe, completely unprepared for cold weather"
Again, reading > you. The issue is administration, unless you believe that mechanics make policy.

"It's been cold before now"
Well, glad you admit that fact.

"Oh, just add some kerosene? Wow, brilliant. I'll just go in my garage and get some kerosene"
WTF? You seem to be unable to comprehend basic English again. Did you even bother to read @ gel points? Obviously not.

"you're at home plate but you're using a cricket bat"
It's much easier to hit a ball w/a cricket bat than a Louisville Slugger. You also reconfirmed my note that given the figures, the median is in the 20s. Sucks to be you, though.

"I don't think"
Well, I'll grant you that.

The reality is that other locals with similar weather (Mont. Cty MD) were able to field their resources and open schools, while ostensibly less prepared (for single digit temps) areas were somehow able to use their transportation resources, a fact that you seem unwilling or unable to comprehend.

Face it, FCPS dropped the proverbial ball, and the PR flack didn't help matters.

Concerns About Buses Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who The Hell is Working on FCPS Buses? Needs to
> be Fired!
>
> Christ! What a crock of BS. Hire somebody who can
> manage the buses. This is the biggest waste of
> tax dollars. I'm being to question how safe our
> buses are in good weather?
>
> We can't add a couple of cans of additive to the
> buses when it gets cold? WV, MD and many VA
> schools systems have NO problems with their buses!

Liberalism.

Reality Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Perhaps because this has been an extraordinary
> occurrence"
> Well, the record lows date back decades, so no.

And you have decades of history on the bus maintenance? I'd love to see it. Just an FYI - Extraordinary doesn't mean "never happened before", it means "outside of the ordinary". I reckon where you live in Fairfax County though, the lows regularly get down to single digits.

> "live in Buffalo ... dispenses EN 590 class D
> fuel."
> Which would be amazing, as EN is a European
> Standard. You, obviously an FCPS grad, can't find
> Buffalo on a map.

That's a good point - I'll give you that. It's a shame there's no equivalent standard in the US...

> "mechanics were as incompetent as you believe,
> completely unprepared for cold weather"
> Again, reading > you. The issue is administration,
> unless you believe that mechanics make policy.

So the mechanics can't do anything without explicit direction from the administration? What level of administration is responsible? Is the school board directing the maintenance teams on what they should be doing and how they should be doing it? This is news to me.

> "It's been cold before now"
> Well, glad you admit that fact.

Yep - yet this seems to be the first time we've had such significant problems with the bus fleet. I'd have thought it would be a regular occurrence what with it being cold in the past.

> "Oh, just add some kerosene? Wow, brilliant. I'll
> just go in my garage and get some kerosene"
> WTF? You seem to be unable to comprehend basic
> English again. Did you even bother to read @ gel
> points? Obviously not.
>
> "you're at home plate but you're using a cricket
> bat"
> It's much easier to hit a ball w/a cricket bat
> than a Louisville Slugger. You also reconfirmed my
> note that given the figures, the median is in the
> 20s. Sucks to be you, though.

Yeah, but in baseball it's against the rules and gets you thrown out.

Note that given the figures, there aren't any single digit values. It's easy to gloss over that when you're patting yourself on the back for picking nits out of my simple example. You completely missed the actual data on the link you provided.

> "I don't think"
> Well, I'll grant you that.

Oooooh, ad hominem. That really proves your point.

> The reality is that other locals with similar
> weather (Mont. Cty MD) were able to field their
> resources and open schools, while ostensibly less
> prepared (for single digit temps) areas were
> somehow able to use their transportation
> resources, a fact that you seem unwilling or
> unable to comprehend.

Good for them. What with them being farther north, I'd expect them to be a bit better prepared for inclement weather.

> Face it, FCPS dropped the proverbial ball, and the
> PR flack didn't help matters.

The system seems to have worked well for years and, during a stretch of bad weather that hasn't happened in the past twenty years, there were some problems. Obviously that means all of FCPS is screwed up. How dare they put down astroturf!

Shit happens, life will go on, and the buses will run again next week. That's the last I've got to say about this. Wake me up when this becomes a regular problem, then I'll get upset.

"Good for them. What with them being farther north, I'd expect them to be a bit better prepared for inclement weather"

^ Hahahahaha....that's some funny shit there. Yup, Montgomery County MD has to be a good 10-15 miles north.

Additive diesel is cheaper so why FCPS isn't using it I don't know.

"outside of the ordinary"

Sub freezing temps are quite ordinary.

"It's a shame there's no equivalent standard in the US..."

There is a standard, and I referenced it. Further indication that you simply don't read, but just pound the keyboard like a pigeon on crack.

"What level of administration is responsible"
An excellent question. Further, I'd ask "who" is responsible, and enquire as to what FCPS will do to ameliorate future similar situations.

"yet this seems to be the first time we've had such significant problems with the bus fleet. I'd have thought it would be a regular occurrence what with it being cold in the past"
Does seem that way, but I'm going on what the spokesperson actually said, not my impressions of the past.

"completely missed the actual data "
Yet you agreed with my assertion. Interesting, that.

"What with them being farther north"
You do realize you're being particulary dense, no? FYI, portions of MC are further south and than FFX... and again, you miss the point that other parts of the east coast, with similar temps, were somehow able to use their busses. I ask again, do you have any insight into that fact?

"The system seems to have worked well for years and, during a stretch of bad weather that hasn't happened in the past twenty years"

Except it hasn't been 20 years, and the test of any system is at it's operational extremes. One does not applaud middling successes.

"Shit happens"
No kidding. It's how such shit is handled that makes the difference. Generally FCPS does OK. Not this time.
You seem befuddled by that...

1500 buses in Fairfax , some will not start . What the hell do you want each and every bus to get a new battery every day??They maintain the shit of of those buses.

You want to bitch, bitch about the ass hole wench hit Jersy wall for no fucking reason at all this Am, her car went airborn and came down ona 37 yr old man killing him instantly. The bitch with cell phone attached to her head had her lips flapping all the way to the hospital with the worlds most important conversation.

http://www.wtop.com/41/3549226/1-teen-dead-4-hurt-on-deadly-driving-day

WHY DIDJ'T THE BUS DRIVERS GO TO WORK AT 5AM?

RydellRoad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> a) How does everyone know that all other school
> districts in VA had NO problems? You don't and
> are just making it up.
> b) FCPS has plenty of money to maintain their
> fleet of buses. It's all just priorities.
> Numerous people bitch and moan that they have any
> buses- "make the kids walk." A recurring theme.
> c) When FCPS wants to spend money on upgrading to
> new buses people bitch and complain that it is a
> waste to buy new equipment.
>
>
> FCPS operates one of the largest publicly owned
> fleets in the country.
> More than 1,500 school buses, using 6,500 separate
> routes, transport more
> than 110,000 students to school each day. The
> average FCPS bus is 8.1 years old. Depending on
> the school district budget, FCPS purchases an
> average of 95 buses a year. When it comes time to
> replace a bus, the FCPS transportation department
> purchases buses that meet or exceed federal and
> Virginia state safety standards, have a record of
> reliability, have low projected average total cost
> of ownership with durable parts to minimize down
> time, and is sold by a dealership that provides an
> acceptable level of service and responsiveness.
> The average purchase price for a new bus is
> $114,000.


rank these in order of priority: bus replacement, Japanese immersion, smartboards in every classroom, artificial turf fields, ieps for every other child, ap test fees, reduction of admn staff, reduction of janitorial services, pay raise for teachers, carte blanche for football, cell phones for admn staff, increase in mental health services, more free lunches, after school snacks, new staff to find walking routes for students as part of the health initiative, elimination of text books

The main reason most of those buses wouldn't start----the glow plugs (or relay) are shot.

The vast majority of FCPS buses are powered by the 7.3 Navistar (International) turbocharged V-8 diesel. The same engine was used by Ford in pick-up trucks and called the Powerstroke. That's right folks, those big buses have pick-up truck motors in them!

Anyway, the 7.3 is VERY reliant on glow plugs for cold weather (under 40F)starting. There are eight of them, one for each cylinder. They heat the combustion chambers for easier starting. You turn the key on and wait until a "WAIT TO START" light goes out. Then you crank it.

As these glow plugs burn out, one by one, starting gets harder until the engine won't start at all. As the temperatures drop, the chances of it starting drop also, until they reach zero.

For some reason, the County hates like hell to replace glow plugs. In "normal" weather, they get away with it----until a morning like this morning.

Don't know why they resist glow plug service. It's a fairly easy job, just pop the valve covers, replace the glow plugs and those motors will start. And only about $200 for the parts. Sometimes it's just the relay and that's even cheaper and easier.

To answer the original question, a separate County agency, the Department of Vehicle Services (DVS) works on FCPS buses and pretty much all other County vehicles.

There are some good DVS mechanics and a lot of slackers. I began my career with DVS years ago and it was good experience. As my skills improved, I joined the private sector. I now specialize in marine diesel power (on the yacht side, not commercial applications). I make more in a day than a DVS bus mechanic makes in a week.

Most of the good ones leave pretty quick. The guys that will never acquire the skills to be top notch diesel techs are the ones that make DVS a career.

Bottom line: top diesel techs won't work for what the County pays.

The old saying, "you get what you pay for" definitely applies.

All the buses have modern diesel engines that can deal with below freezing temperatures.

I would like to thank all of you for a few minutes of entertainment. FCPS parents have gone insane over the schools being shut down. FCPS parents arte the main reason why the schools are shut down due to years of complaining.

Im so glad I dont have kids. lol.

Fxck9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All the buses have modern diesel engines that can
> deal with below freezing temperatures.
>
> I would like to thank all of you for a few minutes
> of entertainment. FCPS parents have gone insane
> over the schools being shut down. FCPS parents
> arte the main reason why the schools are shut down
> due to years of complaining.
>
> Im so glad I dont have kids. lol.

We are all glad that you don't have kids. Better for the gene pool.

Fxck9 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All the buses have modern diesel engines that can
> deal with below freezing temperatures.


IF they are properly maintained.

FCPS Parent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just got this in e-mail. Unbelievable.
>
> "A message from FAIRFAX COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS
> FCPS is experiencing significant mechanical
> problems with a number of buses across the county
> this morning due to the freezing temperatures.
> Some of these buses will be late picking up
> students; some may be very late. Parents are
> advised to take precautions to ensure that their
> children are not standing outside in the cold for
> extended periods of time. Mechanics,
> transportation supervisors, and drivers are
> working to the best of their ability to get the
> buses running and on time.
>
> Thank you for your patience and understanding, and
> we apologize for the delays."

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!

Fairfax school buses won’t start, many students face delays
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/fairfax-school-buses-wont-start-many-students-face-delays/2014/01/24/96d7088e-84ff-11e3-8099-9181471f7aaf_story.html

Fairfax County public schools said some of its buses across the area are late picking up students because of “significant mechanical problems” due to the freezing temperatures.

Officials warned that children should not stand outside for too long waiting for their buses.

In a statement on its Web site, the schools system said “some of these buses will be late picking up students; some may be very late.”

Fairfax police officials warned that parents should prepare to make other arrangements for getting their kids to school because as many as 200 buses “will not start.”

The school system is opening Friday under a two-hour delay because of the weather.

Officials said mechanics, transportation supervisors and drivers are “working to the best of their ability to get the buses running on time.”

Over the past few days, more than 260 buses have had problems starting because of the weather, according to Jeff Platenberg, the Fairfax County assistant superintendent for facilities and transportation. He said some buses wouldn’t start at all and needed to be towed.

Fairfax public schools has 1,600 buses in entire fleet. Platenberg said that the buses experienced various problems due to the extremely cold temperatures, including batteries that had died, frozen fuel lines and cracked windows.

“The lower temps and wind chill caused brake lines and fuel lines to freeze up and batteries to quit that were close to their end of useful life,” Platenberg said.

Fairfax has no centralized bus depot, like Montgomery County, and instead parks buses at scores of locations spread out around the county. In the mornings, drivers arrive at their buses at least an hour ahead of time in inclement weather to ensure that their motors get running. Platenberg said the school system relies on roaming mechanics, whom they call “roadies,” to help drivers address concerns with faulty engines.

“Our folks begin so early,” Platenberg said, noting that they “do simply miraculous work in the most adverse conditions.”

Platenberg said that in single-digit temperatures, diesel fuel will congeal in the tank, which makes it difficult for the engine to turn over. To address this concern, Platenberg said that bus mechanics had been replacing fuel filters and using a different type of fuel to keep it liquid.

One Fairfax bus driver, who spoke on condition of anonymity to be candid, said that she’s had difficulty getting her bus started in the past. She also said that the buses tend to be drafty.

“So we look like sausages with all our clothes on,” to stay warm, she said.

She drives about 40 to 65 kids to elementary and middle schools around the county. She noted that the bus drivers are trained extensively to handle wintery conditions on the roads, but in recent days the roads were too treacherous.

“The ice is scary, as are all the other folks on the road, but we are well trained,” she said.

We have complained to the school board over and over about the Thomas buses, they suck all the time but more so in cold weather. We love freightliners and internationals and the drivers love them too. The county buys Thomas from the state motorpool because they get them cheaper. You get what you pay for!

Bus Tech Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have complained to the school board over and
> over about the Thomas buses, they suck all the
> time but more so in cold weather. We love
> freightliners and internationals and the drivers
> love them too. The county buys Thomas from the
> state motorpool because they get them cheaper. You
> get what you pay for!


The County hasn't bought Thomas buses in years. The newest big Thomases are 1998 models. The newest small Thomases are just a couple years newer, 1999s or 2000s.

THe County owns zero Freightliner school buses. (Freightliner owns Thomas, btw).

The old Thomases suck for sure, but most actually start pretty good in the cold.

The vast majority of the FCPS fleet is International. 1999 and up.

I live next to a school where 20 or so busses park. This morning, a team of bus drivers and mechanics descended on the school and got all of the buses started and let them run for about 45 minutes.

I walked over and was talking to them and was told that driver/mechanic teams were attempting to start every bus in the County. They said they are going to do the same thing again tomorrow.

My question is: Where the hell were the news crews? Why were they not there to document people giving up their weekends to do everything humanly possible to ensure the buses start Monday morning?

WHERE WERE THE FUCKING NEWS CREWS TODAY??????

eye witness Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I live next to a school where 20 or so busses
> park. This morning, a team of bus drivers and
> mechanics descended on the school and got all of
> the buses started and let them run for about 45
> minutes.
>
> I walked over and was talking to them and was told
> that driver/mechanic teams were attempting to
> start every bus in the County. They said they are
> going to do the same thing again tomorrow.
>
> My question is: Where the hell were the news
> crews? Why were they not there to document people
> giving up their weekends to do everything humanly
> possible to ensure the buses start Monday
> morning?
>
> WHERE WERE THE FUCKING NEWS CREWS TODAY??????


If they were to do a story about this, the headline would be "County Wasting Money and Harming Environment by running buses for hours"

Of course that is wrong, but taxpayers would be angry anyway

bus dreck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bus Tech Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We have complained to the school board over and
> > over about the Thomas buses, they suck all the
> > time but more so in cold weather. We love
> > freightliners and internationals and the
> drivers
> > love them too. The county buys Thomas from the
> > state motorpool because they get them cheaper.
> You
> > get what you pay for!
>
>
> The County hasn't bought Thomas buses in years.
> The newest big Thomases are 1998 models. The
> newest small Thomases are just a couple years
> newer, 1999s or 2000s.
>
> THe County owns zero Freightliner school buses.
> (Freightliner owns Thomas, btw).
>
> The old Thomases suck for sure, but most actually
> start pretty good in the cold.
>
> The vast majority of the FCPS fleet is
> International. 1999 and up.


There are like 9 almost new Thomases parked at WSHS right now. Liar.

wrongggg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bus dreck Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bus Tech Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > We have complained to the school board over
> and
> > > over about the Thomas buses, they suck all
> the
> > > time but more so in cold weather. We love
> > > freightliners and internationals and the
> > drivers
> > > love them too. The county buys Thomas from
> the
> > > state motorpool because they get them
> cheaper.
> > You
> > > get what you pay for!
> >
> >
> > The County hasn't bought Thomas buses in years.
>
> > The newest big Thomases are 1998 models. The
> > newest small Thomases are just a couple years
> > newer, 1999s or 2000s.
> >
> > THe County owns zero Freightliner school buses.
>
> > (Freightliner owns Thomas, btw).
> >
> > The old Thomases suck for sure, but most
> actually
> > start pretty good in the cold.
> >
> > The vast majority of the FCPS fleet is
> > International. 1999 and up.
>
>
> There are like 9 almost new Thomases parked at
> WSHS right now. Liar.


Are they Type-C school buses or Type-D school buses? If you don't know that, then you wouldn't know a ThomasBuilt from an IC from a Blue Bird. Why don't you snap a pic with your phone and post it? Then, I'll tell you exactly what they are.

For the last time, FCPS does NOT own a full size Thomas bus that is less than 15 years old. If you ever see a late model Thomas bus on FCPS property, it brought the visiting team from Loudoun, Prince William, or any other school district that purchases ThomasBuilt buses.

bus dreck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wrongggg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > bus dreck Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Bus Tech Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > We have complained to the school board over
> > and
> > > > over about the Thomas buses, they suck all
> > the
> > > > time but more so in cold weather. We love
> > > > freightliners and internationals and the
> > > drivers
> > > > love them too. The county buys Thomas from
> > the
> > > > state motorpool because they get them
> > cheaper.
> > > You
> > > > get what you pay for!
> > >
> > >
> > > The County hasn't bought Thomas buses in
> years.
> >
> > > The newest big Thomases are 1998 models. The
> > > newest small Thomases are just a couple years
> > > newer, 1999s or 2000s.
> > >
> > > THe County owns zero Freightliner school
> buses.
> >
> > > (Freightliner owns Thomas, btw).
> > >
> > > The old Thomases suck for sure, but most
> > actually
> > > start pretty good in the cold.
> > >
> > > The vast majority of the FCPS fleet is
> > > International. 1999 and up.
> >
> >
> > There are like 9 almost new Thomases parked at
> > WSHS right now. Liar.
>
>
> Are they Type-C school buses or Type-D school
> buses? If you don't know that, then you wouldn't
> know a ThomasBuilt from an IC from a Blue Bird.
> Why don't you snap a pic with your phone and post
> it? Then, I'll tell you exactly what they are.
>
> For the last time, FCPS does NOT own a full size
> Thomas bus that is less than 15 years old. If you
> ever see a late model Thomas bus on FCPS property,
> it brought the visiting team from Loudoun, Prince
> William, or any other school district that
> purchases ThomasBuilt buses.


Over here at FCPS we got at least 40 Thomas buses that are from the mid 2000's.

The county has only purchased IC's since 2000. They did purchase Thomas's for Special Ed (the short bus) that are 2001 models. They started phasing out the Blue Birds about 2007 or 2008.

Former Floater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The county has only purchased IC's since 2000.
> They did purchase Thomas's for Special Ed (the
> short bus) that are 2001 models. They started
> phasing out the Blue Birds about 2007 or 2008.


You have proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that you have no knowledge of FCPS buses at all, not even one tiny clue. Now please fuck off. Thank you.

In reference to the post from "More Info" who posted previously, the school bus drivers look like "sausages with all our clothes on." I for one, can tell you that they look like HUGE sausages, even in the summer.

"Over here at FCPS we got at least 40 Thomas buses that are from the mid 2000's."


NO you don't. The last Thomas Saf-T-Liner MVP gen-ed (big) buses are 1998 models. The last Sp Ed (small) buses are 2001s.

They began buying Internationals starting with the 1999 models. International began calling them IC, which stands for Integrated Coach around 2003. This continues to this day because IC is the low bidder. I think they should try Thomas again, even if the cost more, because IC is S H I T. Thomas uses Cummins engines which are the best now that Caterpillar has abandoned the on-road diesel engine market.

bus dreck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Over here at FCPS we got at least 40 Thomas buses
> that are from the mid 2000's."
>
>
> NO you don't. The last Thomas Saf-T-Liner MVP
> gen-ed (big) buses are 1998 models. The last Sp
> Ed (small) buses are 2001s.
>
> They began buying Internationals starting with the
> 1999 models. International began calling them IC,
> which stands for Integrated Coach around 2003.
> This continues to this day because IC is the low
> bidder. I think they should try Thomas again,
> even if the cost more, because IC is S H I T.
> Thomas uses Cummins engines which are the best now
> that Caterpillar has abandoned the on-road diesel
> engine market.


YOU ARE 100% wrong. We have plenty of newer Thomas buses.

It wasn't just the cold. They had all sorts of issues with the buses.

Pasat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It wasn't just the cold. They had all sorts of
> issues with the buses.


This is true but diesl fueled buses often fail in extreme cold.

county man dave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pasat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It wasn't just the cold. They had all sorts of
> > issues with the buses.
>
>
> This is true but diesl fueled buses often fail in
> extreme cold.

Yet all the other counties seemed to have no problems with their buses.

Ed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> county man dave Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pasat Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It wasn't just the cold. They had all sorts
> of
> > > issues with the buses.
> >
> >
> > This is true but diesl fueled buses often fail
> in
> > extreme cold.
>
> Yet all the other counties seemed to have no
> problems with their buses.


Most of the other county school systems were closed that day.

So what was the outcome?

Are the FCPS buses actually working today? Very cold?

Plainly your brain has lost all remaining function. Maybe it was the cold that did it. Maybe not.

Burrrrrrr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are the FCPS buses actually working today? Very
> cold?


Go to the local school and count them for yourself.

Just let us know which school you're going to visit. I won't call the cops and tell them about the suspicious dude stalking kids by the buses ... promise.

what is worse, why dredge a 2 year old thread up?

I once looked into working in the County vehicle shops, but the pay is ridiculously low. I now work in a busy commercial truck shop and easily make more in one day than County mechanics make in a week.

Competent techs will not work for county pay, it's as simple as that.