Small Town Grapples With Teen's Death in ATV Crash
Strong Feelings Expressed by Both Sides About Chain Residents Placed Across Path

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/29/AR2008122902027.html

Well, to stick with the theme of the day, I see that Mark Dycio is representing the home owner in Glencairn.

I suppose this is what we used to call Lee's Farm Road, which connects 8-acre park to the Glencairn neighborhood.

RIP to the kid. Probably had mud on his goggles which prevented him from seeing the chain which he wasn't used to being there. No one is at fault here. Just a tragedy.
Attachments:

My only thought is that perhaps a person who was used to driving a car would have been more attentive and would have probably seen an obstruction.

Had he been riding a bike, he would not be dead now. Bikes dont go quite so fast.

Was this daylight or in darkness?

it's a mix of being a sad and stupid story. i would like to point out that every dumbass mother in that town are all for the chain for ridiculous reasons but then outraged after billy dies from it. it's a classic situation.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's a mix of being a sad and stupid story. i
> would like to point out that every dumbass mother
> in that town are all for the chain for ridiculous
> reasons but then outraged after billy dies from
> it. it's a classic situation.

if you have any additional insight there, that would be appreciated

cvbn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> if you have any additional insight there, that
> would be appreciated

i was going to say soccer mom but i dont think they can afford a soccer ball.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Was he decapitated?

"It has also brought people closer together as they collected money to pay for Sam's funeral, cooked meals for his family"

Im sure a family living in Clifton needs money for a funeral, much less for food. Rich whiteboy dies, everyone cries. Rich blackboy, must of been spendin his parents money on crack.
This in all honesty should not even be news. Although I do agree that that some kind of a warning be placed in front of the fore mentioned chain.

Also, I'm not sure, but aren't there laws on kids so young on motor vehicles... If I remember correctly, I thought the age was 16, license or not. (once again I'm not sure)

"ATVs are only permitted on public land and roads that are clearly designated for use by off-highway vehicles (OHVs or ORVs)." Public or private easement? Was this such a road. Permission to operate on the private property?

Shit happens. I wouldn't be surprised if the family tries to sue the private land owner for not properly marking a hazard, even after receiving donations from them. (but then again I dont know them specifically)

Im not trying to piss anyone off, I'm not a troll, I just know the general mentality of the majority of people living in fairfax county.

Dont get me wrong, I am deeply sympathetic by this family's loss.

I believe that if anyone is responsible, unfortunately its the family's( both parents and kid), who have already paid enough. (i hit a deer, ran into a ditch and recieved a wreckless driving; failure to maintain control ticket.) So if i lost control, he obviously lost control too... did the chain jump in front of him? 350cc's is no joke.
I had a puche? (modified by me) moped as a kid that could clock close to 55mph Its no where near as heavy as a quad, but 350cc, 14 years old?

P.s. Mud on his goggles eh, it looks like its a gravel path. (so maybe it was a designated off-road trail, or private easement)

If the chain was put there to intentionally harm the rider then there could be a case. In Va you can not set traps for people even if they are on your property illegal. Did the owner know this could be a hazard? Have others hit it before?

So if you dig a hole and cover it to injury people trespassing on your property they can sue you.

Yes, I know it's crock, but that's the law.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2008 07:23PM by Lurker..

i guess i better fill in my deadfalls i dug for the prepubescent, machete wielding MS-13 wannabees that supposedly plague our area. Or maybe not, I truly intended them for the deers that keep eating my flowers... lol

With all the bureaucratic rules, regulations, and laws in this county.. Does anyone know if this chain was legal in the first place? I don't feel like doing any research tonight.
On a side note, the Washington post is constantly losing more and more of the respect I once had for it; what a badly written news article.

People would be really be better off not commenting about things they don't know much about. Not everyone in Clifton is rich. Feel fortunate for what you have and don't resent others--you've never even met this family.


acidbyt3 Wrote:
> Im sure a family living in Clifton needs money for
> a funeral, much less for food. Rich whiteboy dies,
> everyone cries. Rich blackboy, must of been
> spendin his parents money on crack.
> This in all honesty should not even be news.

I already stated my point.
Pardon me, but the ***average*** income of Clifton, Va is ***currently*** estimated at ***$138,951*** a year. Although these numbers are from 2000, when the national average income was only $51,545, Im sure this gap has widened by multiples. The mean housing value in clifton is currently over 500k, close to 800k between 05-06. I'm sure plenty of poor people live there huh? Keep in mind this is an average, and im sure there is many more McMansions than Shanty-Shacks in Clifton, so set your extremes aside.

How about you either comment some more of your opinion, or at least post some facts. I am far richer then many who live in Clifton. Its a state of mind, not how much your physical assets are worth. I'm not knocking anyone, simply stating an opinion, and some facts which you obviously cant swallow. (which by the way are clearly separated)

Once again, I am deeply sympathetic for the family.

CliftonResident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People would be really be better off not
> commenting about things they don't know much
> about. Not everyone in Clifton is rich. Feel
> fortunate for what you have and don't resent
> others--you've never even met this family.
>


So true...I remember the Clifton area of the 50's and 60's...a real dump. Black people even lived there!

I get sick when I think of the acreage I could have bought down there for a song. Who knew the yuppies were coming? I guess I should have after watching what happened in Old Town Alex, sigh.

I don't know the Seipels either, but I do know they bought their home in 1998 for $238k. I also know Newman Rd, and there are plenty of homes there that aren't "McMansions". That doesn't sound rich to me.

acidbyt3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I already stated my point.
> Pardon me, but the ***average*** income of
> Clifton, Va is ***currently*** estimated at
> ***$138,951*** a year. Although these numbers are
> from 2000, when the national average income was
> only $51,545, Im sure this gap has widened by
> multiples. The mean housing value in clifton is
> currently over 500k, close to 800k between 05-06.
> I'm sure plenty of poor people live there huh?
> Keep in mind this is an average, and im sure there
> is many more McMansions than Shanty-Shacks in
> Clifton, so set your extremes aside.
>
> How about you either comment some more of your
> opinion, or at least post some facts. I am far
> richer then many who live in Clifton. Its a state
> of mind, not how much your physical assets are
> worth. I'm not knocking anyone, simply stating an
> opinion, and some facts which you obviously cant
> swallow. (which by the way are clearly separated)
>
> Once again, I am deeply sympathetic for the
> family.

I know one of the people the article quoted and heard that this was definitely not a "rich, white kid". If you read the article, it come just short of calling his home a junk yard.

CliftonResident Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know the Seipels either, but I do know
> they bought their home in 1998 for $238k.

A house in the back of Glencairn for $238K? Quadruple that. Clifton residents, am I right or am I right? This is off-topic I understand, but that comment cannot just sit there un remarked on.

It's public record, nimrod. Look it up.

chapel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CliftonResident Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't know the Seipels either, but I do know
> > they bought their home in 1998 for $238k.
>
> A house in the back of Glencairn for $238K?
> Quadruple that. Clifton residents, am I right or
> am I right? This is off-topic I understand, but
> that comment cannot just sit there un remarked on.

my mistake, i see 238K was in references the deceased home. regardless, that sounds cheap. sorry to take off topic

My mistake too--I didn't realize you were confused about which house we were talking about. 238k was for the Seipel's house on Newman Rd.

chapel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> my mistake, i see 238K was in references the
> deceased home. regardless, that sounds cheap.
> sorry to take off topic

So a home in clifton is a junkyard because... its filled with junk quote "as wondrous as the contents of Huck Finn's pockets." Do you even know the definition of wondrous?

wondrous junk?¿?

"There are boats that look as if the only water they have seen in years was rain falling where they sit. Cars are parked every which way, up on blocks and in various states of repair... A pogo stick leans against a fence beside an upturned skateboard in the weeds. There are ***several*** treehouses and a ***trampoline***."

Asterisk's added. A poor family wouldn't even have a lawn for a trampoline, much less money for food, or even a house. Not to mention multiple cars? Just because the washington post makes it seem as if the neglected their lawn doesn't mean they are poor. oaktonmom, your living in a dream, a shallow one at that.

Sounds like they got bored with their toys and just bought more. (my opinion bases on so called stated facts provided by the washington post) Poor boy with a 350 ATV huh... Im sure he bought that with money from raking leaves and mowing lawns...

Post some facts! I'm sympathetic, but this family hardly needs money. Your all are egging me on... keep going if you want. Its not like your saving anything that's not already gone. Way to piss away money like a rich person would.. have another bottle of Dom Perignon.

If you cant tell what parts of this are sarcastic, please dont reply.
I have nothing against how much money you have, or how you spend it.... well you wouldnt understand would ya? Thanks for egging me on oaktonmom post some more hearsay, im quite bored... Why dont you tell me what you know?

Much sympathy to the family, I couldn't even imagine.

pardon my grammar, im a drunk hobo with fios.

acidbyt3

You are wrong. I am not living a shallow dream. I work my ass off as a self employed person. I live in the 22124 zip code and could hit a McMansion with a stone, but I live in a 1977 split level. I don't hire a landscaping company to put up my Christmas decorations OR cut my grass. My favorite place to "shop" is Target and I don't own a single pair of designer jeans ... GAP works just fine for me. Don't pass judgment jerk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2008 09:25PM by oaktonmom.

No amount of money can buy this kind of bitterness--get some perspective on life acidbyt3--it'll do you good.

acidbyt3 Wrote:
> Sounds like they got bored with their toys and
> just bought more. (my opinion bases on so called
> stated facts provided by the washington post) Poor
> boy with a 350 ATV huh... Im sure he bought that
> with money from raking leaves and mowing lawns...
>
> Post some facts! I'm sympathetic, but this
> family hardly needs money. Your all are egging me
> on... keep going if you want. Its not like your
> saving anything that's not already gone. Way to
> piss away money like a rich person would.. have
> another bottle of Dom Perignon.
>
> If you cant tell what parts of this are sarcastic,
> please dont reply.
> I have nothing against how much money you have, or
> how you spend it.... well you wouldnt understand
> would ya? Thanks for egging me on oaktonmom post
> some more hearsay, im quite bored... Why dont you
> tell me what you know?
>
> Much sympathy to the family, I couldn't even
> imagine.

oaktonmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> acidbyt3
>
> You are wrong. I am not living a shallow dream. I
> work my ass off as a self employed person. I live
> in the 22124 zip code and could hit a McMansion
> with a stone, but I live in a 1977 split level. I
> don't hire a landscaping company to put up my
> Christmas decorations OR cut my grass. My favorite
> place to "shop" is Target and I don't own a single
> pair of designer jeans ... GAP works just fine for
> me. Don't pass judgment jerk.


AHA! you shop at Target. If you were poor, you would shop at Wal Mart or Kmart.

22124
-------------------------------------------
median household income $148,779
average household income $188,917

Living in the ghetto huh?
I'm sure your kids are learning much about life in FLINT HILL.
Pardon me, its all about perspective, and you've made yours clear.

oaktonmom, sure you've worked for your money, you don't frivolously spend it, i can appreciate that. But for humanity's sakes think for yourself.
You posted a very much biased quote from the washington post as your contribution to this forum. Some how this is supposed to make me think differently. If you think I am wrong, in all honesty speak your mind, try to push me to conform to your beliefs if that's what you want. But until you post something original, I'm gonna have to pass.

I am very much sympathetic, not for, but with the family.

Sarcasm is hard to discern with the typed word isn't it, at least without much thought. I'm not going to defend myself, if my words come across as bitter to you, could it possibly be you who is bitter... I have nothing to prove do I?
Did your lobbying efforts help kill this 'poor' boy? Of course not you live in oakton... a world away from clifton.

perspective... show some.

In my opinion, our collective ignorance killed him.
Im guess I'm just defecting.

I guess im just defecting!

Where are you getting your figures there, acid?

acidbyt3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 22124
> -------------------------------------------
> median household income $148,779
> average household income $188,917
>

You are so right! Every now and then I sneak into Kmart, but don't tell anyone.

Hey acid, what zip code do you live in? Are you like the holier than thou hypocritical celebrities who are always pontificating? "Our collective ignorance killed him". That is so insightful.

assholier than thou maybe ;)
I live in 20120. Why do you ask for my sources?
Google it and you'll easily turn up numbers in the same general ballpark.

Most results I found listed the median income at 116k, not 149k...


acidbyt3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> assholier than thou maybe ;)
> I live in 20120. Why do you ask for my sources?
> Google it and you'll easily turn up numbers in the
> same general ballpark.

Was this a driveway that was chained off?

I thought the article stated that the kid on the ATV was coming to the house to play with their kid.

If the parents knew the kid was on an ATV and were expecting him I don't think putting a chain there was very smart.

Lurker. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So if you dig a hole and cover it to injury people
> trespassing on your property they can sue you.
>
> Yes, I know it's crock, but that's the law.

that is bullshit! i made a tiger pit to protect myself from tigers! there are no signs because tigers learned to read. i regret teaching them at the zoo.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

While it is the right of the property owner to stick a chain there, I think common sense would have told them that people riding on horses or ATVs could have gotten caught up in it. I'm sure there will be some lawsuit here that will end up making everyone miserable only to get thrown out in the end.

back on topic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was this a driveway that was chained off?
>
> I thought the article stated that the kid on the
> ATV was coming to the house to play with their
> kid.
>
> If the parents knew the kid was on an ATV and were
> expecting him I don't think putting a chain there
> was very smart.


No, it was not a drive way. It is a small, one lane gravel road ("lee's Farm Road") that runs along the Clifton Creek (AKA Popes Head Creek) parelleling what the townies call "8 Acre Park". It begins at the end of Chapel St (not Chapel Rd.), but the Chapel St in the interior of town (next to the town park, and the Mayor's "Ice Cream Depot").

If memory serves correct, there is a large, official gate at the entrance of Lee's Farm road, where Chapel St. ends. Meaning, a car could certainly not make it through, and any dirt bike or four wheeler would need to hop over a steep dirt embankment in order to access the road (trail) in question (not a serious obstacle whatsoever for a dirt bike or ATV).

Lee's Farm road again is a small gravel road that connects the prestigious Glencairn neighborhood with the town of clifton.

But again, this is not a drive way. I would assume the teenager took this route often. A kid in the town of Clifton will use any and all trails, even if they are private property i.e. no trespassing. I will assume that his friend lived in the back of the Glenncairn neighborhood, but not the closest house to where Lee's Farm road lets out into the neighborhood, and where the accident occured. Lee's Farm road is the only route into Glencairn without using the main roads, which from the town of clifton, would be approximately a 1 mile drive on paved surfaces.

But to get down to the nitty gritty here....

to restate, I do not believe that the deceased was visiting the home of the closest residence to lee's farm road, where the trail dumps out. You can actually see that house in the picture at the top of this thread. My question is, whose decision is it, when and when not to put the chain up across the trail. Is it the call of the closest property owner, or a collective neighborhood decision? That, to me, is they gray area right now, as the area in question (seen in the photo), to my knowledge, is town property, and not the property of any Glencairn home owner.

In order to access the remainder of the neighborhood, and to get to his friends house, he would need to hop off the trail, and proceed (even if for a very short distance) through someone's property, and onto the neighborhood streets. Could a property owner have been tired of 4-wheeler tracks on this lawn, and then decide to insititute the chain, at a very unfortunate time?

I could go on and on, but enough speculation. Maybe someone in Glencairn could share some first hand knowledge.

YZ125 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> back on topic Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Was this a driveway that was chained off?
> >
> > I thought the article stated that the kid on
> the
> > ATV was coming to the house to play with their
> > kid.
> >
> > If the parents knew the kid was on an ATV and
> were
> > expecting him I don't think putting a chain
> there
> > was very smart.
>
>
> No, it was not a drive way. It is a small, one
> lane gravel road ("lee's Farm Road") that runs
> along the Clifton Creek (AKA Popes Head Creek)
> parelleling what the townies call "8 Acre Park".
> It begins at the end of Chapel St (not Chapel
> Rd.), but the Chapel St in the interior of town
> (next to the town park, and the Mayor's "Ice Cream
> Depot").
>
> If memory serves correct, there is a large,
> official gate at the entrance of Lee's Farm road,
> where Chapel St. ends. Meaning, a car could
> certainly not make it through, and any dirt bike
> or four wheeler would need to hop over a steep
> dirt embankment in order to access the road
> (trail) in question (not a serious obstacle
> whatsoever for a dirt bike or ATV).
>
> Lee's Farm road again is a small gravel road that
> connects the prestigious Glencairn neighborhood
> with the town of clifton.
>
> But again, this is not a drive way. I would assume
> the teenager took this route often. A kid in the
> town of Clifton will use any and all trails, even
> if they are private property i.e. no trespassing.
> I will assume that his friend lived in the back of
> the Glenncairn neighborhood, but not the closest
> house to where Lee's Farm road lets out into the
> neighborhood, and where the accident occured.
> Lee's Farm road is the only route into Glencairn
> without using the main roads, which from the town
> of clifton, would be approximately a 1 mile drive
> on paved surfaces.
>
> But to get down to the nitty gritty here....
>
> to restate, I do not believe that the deceased was
> visiting the home of the closest residence to
> lee's farm road, where the trail dumps out. You
> can actually see that house in the picture at the
> top of this thread. My question is, whose decision
> is it, when and when not to put the chain up
> across the trail. Is it the call of the closest
> property owner, or a collective neighborhood
> decision? That, to me, is they gray area right
> now, as the area in question (seen in the photo),
> to my knowledge, is town property, and not the
> property of any Glencairn home owner.
>
> In order to access the remainder of the
> neighborhood, and to get to his friends house, he
> would need to hop off the trail, and proceed (even
> if for a very short distance) through someone's
> property, and onto the neighborhood streets. Could
> a property owner have been tired of 4-wheeler
> tracks on this lawn, and then decide to insititute
> the chain, at a very unfortunate time?
>
> I could go on and on, but enough speculation.
> Maybe someone in Glencairn could share some first
> hand knowledge.


So this road is not private property?

Who maintains it?

I would like to know who put the chain up and why.

I assume the kid crashed the ATV into the chain and was thrown off?

This is so sad-but that mother is going to want someone to pay for her kid's death-that is how these things work out usually. Why did the artice single out that one family if this is not their property?

The Jasiens' property in the Glencairn development includes an easement for the path, which was a farm road before the development was built, according to town officials and Fairfax County Circuit Court land records. The path extends west from Chapel Street, which becomes a dead end. It also borders the Webb Sanctuary owned by the Audubon Naturalist Society of the Central Atlantic States. Cliff Fairweather, senior naturalist for the society, said the chain lies about 30 feet past the conservation group's property line.

The Jasiens also own an ATV and often piled onto it for a short drive down the gravel path to Main Street for a treat at the Ice Cream Depot, neighbors said. It was the Jasiens' 14-year-old son whom Sam was going to visit that afternoon a few days before Thanksgiving when the crash occurred, neighbors and friends said.

this excerpt from the article should answer some questions above, but also create many more....

the info from YZ125 is insightful but flawed. Primarily, the deceased was indeed visiting the home of the closest property to where the trail dumps out, as the above explains clearly.

sadjf Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Jasiens' property in the Glencairn development
> includes an easement for the path, which was a
> farm road before the development was built,
> according to town officials and Fairfax County
> Circuit Court land records. The path extends west
> from Chapel Street, which becomes a dead end. It
> also borders the Webb Sanctuary owned by the
> Audubon Naturalist Society of the Central Atlantic
> States. Cliff Fairweather, senior naturalist for
> the society, said the chain lies about 30 feet
> past the conservation group's property line.
>
> The Jasiens also own an ATV and often piled onto
> it for a short drive down the gravel path to Main
> Street for a treat at the Ice Cream Depot,
> neighbors said. It was the Jasiens' 14-year-old
> son whom Sam was going to visit that afternoon a
> few days before Thanksgiving when the crash
> occurred, neighbors and friends said.
>
> this excerpt from the article should answer some
> questions above, but also create many more....
>
> the info from YZ125 is insightful but flawed.
> Primarily, the deceased was indeed visiting the
> home of the closest property to where the trail
> dumps out, as the above explains clearly.

So let's say the Jasiens decide they don't want people using that path-even though it is not their property to decide who uses it and who does not. If they put the chain up, I see some liability here-criminal and civil. I guess it is ok for them to ride their ATV on this path to the ice cream store but not for anyone else to do it.

Let's say I live at the end of a cul-de-sac and I don't want people coming to my house-can I run a chain accross the road? What is the difference?

The are some interesting legal issues. It really breaks down to the intent of the person who put the chain up. One could argue that since the chain had been painted white the person who put the chain up knew it was inherently dangerous.

One of my law teachers in college once said I would never tell any of my clients to put a "Beware of Dog" sign up because you are admitting that your dog is dangerous and therefore inviting liabilty suits.


I wonder if the rider thought he take out the chain by ramming it at high spped with the ATV?

If the path is on an easement, that settles it. The owners had no right to put a chain up. I think whoever put the chain up should be sued, if not prosecuted...

ease⋅ment

1. Law. a right held by one property owner to make use of the land of another for a limited purpose, as right of passage.
2. an easing; relief.
3. something that gives ease; a convenience.
4. Architecture. a curved joint.

I have an easement on my property. I can't put a fence on it. The local zoning authorities have a right to tear it down if they see it. This was all explained to me when I inquired about it.

These people had no right putting a chain up or cones on a path that was in an easement, even if it was on their property.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2008 02:51PM by WashingTone Locian.

A ton of Fairfax County residents use easements as their property. They figure the worst that can happen is that somebody will make them remove stuff or they'll get a nasty letter. And, they are correct.

Here is the property in question: http://www.zillow.com/homes/map/7421-Dunquin-Ct-clifton-va_rb/#/homes/recently_sold/map/7421-Dunquin-Ct-clifton-va_rb/38.778721,-77.394028,38.775601,-77.399231_rect/16_zm/

He is another photo. The red arrow is the site of the accident. The darkish area is the Clifton Creek, and everything between that and the railroad tracks is Chapel Park (AKA 8 acre). You can't see Lee's Farm road, but it runs parallel to the creek.
Attachments:

Lurker. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A ton of Fairfax County residents use easements as
> their property. They figure the worst that can
> happen is that somebody will make them remove
> stuff or they'll get a nasty letter. And, they
> are correct.


Until the obstacle you erected on an easement kills someone. Then you have a problem.

I attempted to drive down this road when I was taking pictures for the Bunnyman bridge thread. http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/106791/108552.html#msg-108552

There was a chain across a gravel road at the end of Chapel St. where the haunted trail is durign halloween.

I had to back up, and turn around basicially on some guy's driveway due to the chain, and he came and asked me what I was doing and told me to get off his property. This was back in July. so there has been a chain there before.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2008 06:33PM by KeepOnTruckin.

So, is the neighborhood more peaceful without this punk?

I feel horrible for both families, but it really sounds like it was a freak accident. The irony is that they probably put the chain up to prevent people from using it as a cut-through, and the kid was familiar with the path and friends with their son so should have noticed- it just seems he wasn't paying attention.

I can relate as I have a problem with teens riding their huge ATVs on my property, and have thought about putting up some sort of barrier- only because I don't want to be liable for them getting hurt in the woods (and because they are creating paths through my acreage). It's an annoyance to my family and I, so I can imagine folks in Clifton feel the same way.

I do know that my son would NEVER be allowed to ride let alone own a high powered ATV like that at 14.

my 2 cents Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I can relate as I have a problem with teens riding
> their huge ATVs on my property, and have thought
> about putting up some sort of barrier- only
> because I don't want to be liable for them getting
> hurt in the woods (and because they are creating
> paths through my acreage).

The difference is the path in Clifton is paved. It's not like it is some path that was worn into the ground. If this is on an easement and covers several properties, obviously it was paved with the intent of people using it.

I can understand the frustration with the ATVs, but if a landowner decided on his or her own to put this chain up and it ended up killing someone, there may be a problem.

my 2 cents Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I feel horrible for both families, but it really
> sounds like it was a freak accident.

wrong, a freak accident is when a tree is hit by lightning and falls on someone riding an ATV. an accident is someone running into a stationary object with an ATV.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Hey you dirty nig shouldn't you be busy praising Osama instead of talking shit about us rich whiteboys from Clifton?



acidbyt3 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "It has also brought people closer together as
> they collected money to pay for Sam's funeral,
> cooked meals for his family"
>
> Im sure a family living in Clifton needs money for
> a funeral, much less for food. Rich whiteboy dies,
> everyone cries. Rich blackboy, must of been
> spendin his parents money on crack.
> This in all honesty should not even be news.
> Although I do agree that that some kind of a
> warning be placed in front of the fore mentioned
> chain.
>
> Also, I'm not sure, but aren't there laws on kids
> so young on motor vehicles... If I remember
> correctly, I thought the age was 16, license or
> not. (once again I'm not sure)
>
> "ATVs are only permitted on public land and roads
> that are clearly designated for use by off-highway
> vehicles (OHVs or ORVs)." Public or private
> easement? Was this such a road. Permission to
> operate on the private property?
>
> Shit happens. I wouldn't be surprised if the
> family tries to sue the private land owner for not
> properly marking a hazard, even after receiving
> donations from them. (but then again I dont know
> them specifically)
>
> Im not trying to piss anyone off, I'm not a troll,
> I just know the general mentality of the majority
> of people living in fairfax county.
>
> Dont get me wrong, I am deeply sympathetic by this
> family's loss.
>
> I believe that if anyone is responsible,
> unfortunately its the family's( both parents and
> kid), who have already paid enough. (i hit a deer,
> ran into a ditch and recieved a wreckless driving;
> failure to maintain control ticket.) So if i lost
> control, he obviously lost control too... did the
> chain jump in front of him? 350cc's is no joke.
> I had a puche? (modified by me) moped as a kid
> that could clock close to 55mph Its no where near
> as heavy as a quad, but 350cc, 14 years old?
>
> P.s. Mud on his goggles eh, it looks like its a
> gravel path. (so maybe it was a designated
> off-road trail, or private easement)

Bikes go way faster dumbass.



KeepOnTruckin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My only thought is that perhaps a person who was
> used to driving a car would have been more
> attentive and would have probably seen an
> obstruction.
>
> Had he been riding a bike, he would not be dead
> now. Bikes dont go quite so fast.

Reading this 14 years later would you say the same thing again?

I lived in this neighborhood, and lived in a home off of Newman, when this tragedy occurred. I was in the same class as one of the victim’s siblings and worked with their parent a few years later. Calling all homes in Clifton either a “shanty” or a “McMansion” only confirms the writer’s lack of awareness, familiarity, due diligence, and respect for the town and residents. The family who installed that chain, in my opinion, did so in a deceptive manner. One that cost a young boy his life, and shook the community in ways that are indescribable. No barricades similar to a chain that was essentially lying on the ground, camouflaged in foliage and earth, had ever been in place at ANY entrance to the sanctuary. Sam was a smart, friendly, quiet individual who didn’t deserve having his life cut short in such a painful, illegal, and gruesome manner. Thankfully, the individuals who installed the snare that led to Sam’s untimely death have since removed themselves from the community, and have relocated. It is easy to judge a situation based on a poorly written article and a handful of ignorant comments. A young boy. With a full life ahead of him, was killed. Have some respect and decency to the community and to his family.

I just did some cursory research (google) and it looks like the murderers who put up the chain were never charged with anything or sued. And it seems like lots of people knew about the chain and wanted it up and were happy it was up.

Tragic but legal? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just did some cursory research (google) and it
> looks like the murderers who put up the chain were
> never charged with anything or sued. And it seems
> like lots of people knew about the chain and
> wanted it up and were happy it was up.


It also looks like the guy who put the chain up and murdered that boy was pretty rich and well connected in upper Republican circles, which can go a long way if you happen to have killed a 14 year old boy and need it to go away.

When I was learning to ride a ATV one of the first things I was told was to never try to drive through a chain. That kid killed himself with his own stupidity.

The only reason this story made the news is because a white kid died. Had the kid been black nobody would have given a fuck.

4 wheeler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was learning to ride a ATV one of the first
> things I was told was to never try to drive
> through a chain. That kid killed himself with his
> own stupidity.
>



No one would attempt to 'drive through a chain', you tard. He didn't see the chain and drove into it.

4 wheeler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was learning to ride a ATV one of the first
> things I was told was to never try to drive
> through a chain. That kid killed himself with his
> own stupidity.
>
> The only reason this story made the news is
> because a white kid died. Had the kid been black
> nobody would have given a fuck.

White or black, nobody gives a shit. But thanks for letting us know you’re a racist.

Tragic but legal? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4 wheeler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When I was learning to ride a ATV one of the
> first
> > things I was told was to never try to drive
> > through a chain. That kid killed himself with
> his
> > own stupidity.
> >
>
>
>
> No one would attempt to 'drive through a chain',
> you tard. He didn't see the chain and drove into
> it.