Fairfax landowners choose paintball over McMansions
http://www.wtop.com/128/2192345/Fairfax-County-News

Jeff Waters and his wife could have sold their 200-acre property at 6390 Newman Road in Clifton in “two seconds” to a developer to carve into McMansion lots.

Instead, they’re developing it themselves — into the Fairfax County’s first paintball field. The special use permit application was submitted in June. The fees assessed: $16,375.

“We wanted to come up with some way for the property to generate enough income to justify keeping it,” Waters said. “The county wants it to stay an open space. Despite the fact that it’s taking forever, I think the county wants this to happen.”

The property, located south of Popes Head Road and west of the Fairfax County Parkway, has been in Waters’ wife’s family for 50 years. When his mother-in-law died two years ago, the couple absorbed the estate tax hit, Waters said, but it left them land rich and cash poor.

“We needed to come up with something,” he said.

And Castle Creek Paintball LLC was born. The next closest paintball park in Northern Virginia appears to be 24 miles to the west of Clifton, in Aldie.

“If we have a pretty good field, I would like to think enough people would stop here before driving an hour round trip,” said Waters, who owns a small development company called Stick Built Inc.

If approved by the county, paintball will consume 75 of the Waters’ 200 acres. Castle Creek will serve food (no alcohol, no nighttime play), and will employ two military veterans, one to run the office and the other to run the games.

The field of play will be located entirely in the woods. There will be six wooded play areas to start, on roughly 15 acres, expandable to 25 acres and 10 to 12 play areas if the business does well. It will never exceed that — the business will be limited to a single septic system that can handle up to 1,300 players per month, or 300 a week.

Only paintball markers (that is, paintball guns) fueled by high-pressure air will be allowed — no Co2 cartridges. And Castle Creek will sell, Waters said, “ecologically sound” paintball on site.

This will be green paintball. What could have been 40 lots, 40 septic fields and 36 new acres of impervious surface — or “1,000 pigs,” Waters said — will be a wooded game arena with a couple ancillary buildings.

And it will be costly, between $150,000 and $200,000 to get up and running. That includes a $50,000 septic field, a new parking lot and a rain garden for stormwater management purposes.

“It’s our home and we want to keep it,” Waters said. “This is not a ‘make a ton of money’ thing. It’s a 'make enough money to preserve the property' kind of thing.”

No alcohol? What the hell? That's what makes it fun.

What is wrong with these ppl? They could make bazillions on housing (and we could end up with hundreds more takers in subsidized units) and they go for redneck pastimes?

tTx9G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is wrong with these ppl? They could make
> bazillions on housing (and we could end up with
> hundreds more takers in subsidized units) and they
> go for redneck pastimes?

More people = more traffic congestion.

Thank god these ppl did not sell to build condos or houses, we have enough cocks suckers that arrived here in the late 90's and on....paintball seems a ok use of land but would rather a horse farm. Now we might have fastn furious douche bag types speeding uo the road to get there now.

These people need a fucking medal. Good for them for not allowing another condo midrise or town center in the depressingly suburban Fairfax

popes head boy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now we might have fastn furious douche bag
> types speeding uo the road to get there now.

I doubt the AFT will use the facility and I doubt we'll see Eric Holder there either.

A little research shows the land is in a R-C zoned area. No apartments or condos allowed. Lots would have to be min of 5 acres per. It also looks like this is in the middle of a existing residential neighborhood. Not sure that would be a good place for paint ball fields.

Its a great area for a paintball field, screw "existing residential neighborhoods"- they can move to one of the thousand other characterless tract developments in nova if they are really bothered by it- this is a much better use of landscape-that entire part of the county should have been zoned better in the first place anyway, would have made a nice agricultural reserve similar to montgomery but now it's sprawl in its most ugly and exclusive form

Not sure one home on a 5 acre lot constitutes a "McMansion". It is a noble idea, but most likely a money losing prospect in the end. The Clifton regulars will be in a huff for a little while (remember all the uproar about Paradise Springs?) and they will file various actions to delay the process and drive up the landowners legal bills. It will increase the startup costs, meaning the place may last a couple of years, but in the end, it will be houses.

Paradise Springs should be a quiet operation. Paintball fields near your backyard, not sure how that is going to fit in. If the county approves this I too can see a number of law suits being flied. Also looks like the owner has some type of State level tax relief destination for keeping it wooded and having a working farm. Good for them.

Wow! They're not greedy. They are implementing a low impact land use that will provide a few jobs and recreation.
They must NOT be liberals.
I'm sure libs will fight it in favor of more cookie cutter over priced boxes.

Ignorant libs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow! They're not greedy. They are implementing a
> low impact land use that will provide a few jobs
> and recreation.
> They must NOT be liberals.
> I'm sure libs will fight it in favor of more
> cookie cutter over priced boxes.


We certainly do not need anymore large environmentally unfriendly large homes. What we need is luxury condos for illegals.

Have you been to Paradise Springs on a spring/summer/fall weekend evening? The place is usually packed and there is music, so there is some level of noise. The main problem is a lot of DC and Arlington mellennials go there for "an evening in the country" and freak out trying to drive down Yates Ford/Clifton/ Chapel roads. I live out this way and the noise from the skeet range at Bull Run and the trains coming through Clifton is much louder then some air guns would ever be, so noise is not an issue. The main problem will be people driving on narrow roads, solely reliant on GPS.

I'll be this business won't last but a few years, then the land will be sold to developers. I'm not hoping this will happen, but suspect that it will just because of reality. They are going to have to take in a lot of cash and business to keep the taxes they pay in check. If not, they'll be forced to sell.

In order to keep the land preserved, we all need to take up the paintball sport and send our business their way.

As usual, bitchy neihbors are trying to stop cool from hapening anywhere...



Fairfax County paintball pitch now a neighborhood war
paintball


Michael Neibauer
Staff Reporter- Washington Business Journal


Before there can be battles on the field, Clifton neighbors are warring off the field — publicly and in Fairfax County planning circles — over a proposal to install the jurisdiction’s first paintball business.

Jeff Waters’ pitch to convert part of his wife’s family’s Clifton farm into Castle Creek Paintball has struck a nerve. The Board of Zoning Adjustments hearing on his special exception request has been postponed twice. A handful of neighbors are actively fighting the bid. And Waters is now considering ditching the proposal entirely and turning to agritourism, converting his property into a mini-Cox Farms.

We first reported in January that Waters had chosen paintball over selling off the property, located south of Popes Head Road and west of Colchester Road, to a developer. The paintball field — featuring six wooded play areas to start — as proposed would consume 75 of the farm’s 200 acres.

The fight has turned increasingly nasty and hyperbolic, with personal attacks from both sides, accusations of slander and purposeful misstatements of facts. Much of this has taken place publicly, on Facebook especially, where Waters has gone toe to toe with his neighbors.

“This isn’t personal,” Christopher Galla, of Pocol Drive in Clifton, wrote Monday to Waters on the Castle Creek Facebook page. “We respect your family. We want you to keep your property. We don’t want Clifton, VA to become known as “The Paintball Capital of Washington DC and Fairfax County”. We appreciate the family values of the greater Clifton, Virginia community and want to keep it safe, residential, and bucolic.”

Waters has accused Galla (whose teenage son is among the leaders of the anti-paintball effort) of misrepresenting to the community the number of people who are expected to visit Castle Creek — 1,300 per week, as opposed to the accurate number, 1,300 per month. A print version of the WBJ's original paintball article from January (which was correct) erroneously reported the 1,300 per week number.

(Editor's note: The digital version of the print story referenced above was corrected Tuesday.)

“So how many people have you repeated this to?” Waters wrote on Facebook. “I just received another letter that contained your fabricated number. How many people did you and your son talk to in Clifton? Did you repeat this fabrication over and over? Of course you did.

"Did you think I wouldn’t see the letters to the BZA?" Waters continues. "They are public and the public should know how the opponents of my proposed business are operating. I have read yours (you have 2 more in this same email) and all the dozens of fabrications, misrepresentations, and hyperbolic exhortations that you and some of the people of this area have sent to the BZA.”

Even after the debate over the numbers of visitors was settled, the operator of the Popes Head Creek Crisis Program Facebook page responded: "That would still disrupt the character of our rural-residential neighborhood."

Waters announced earlier this summer that he would withdraw his paintball bid, immediately after receiving a letter from attorney Morris DeFeo, another neighbor with concerns. Waters ultimately decided to press forward, he said, at the urging of his attorney.

“I’m sure his veiled (and polite) threats were completely legal,” Waters wrote on Facebook at the time. “But the bottom line is this; my wife and I are almost 60 years old and don’t want to spend what money the feds didn’t take in estate taxes fighting a guy who can paper us to death for sport.”

DeFeo, a partner with Crowell & Moring LLP, said Wednesday there are valid concerns on both sides, but he urged all players to let the process to play out as it should.

“All the parties would be well served to not allow rhetoric and emotion to dictate this,” DeFeo said, “but really allow common sense and the law to dictate this.”

With the hearing rescheduled for Oct. 1, Waters said in an email he hasn't decided whether to continue on.

Paintball in Fairfax? County staff says yes to controversial project

Thursday - 9/25/2014, 3:05pm ET

His neighbors may disagree, but Fairfax County planning staff is recommending approval for Clifton resident Jeff Waters’ plan to open the jurisdiction’s first paintball facility.

It’s been quite the battle for Waters, who has debated whether to continue with his bid for a special permit to open Castle Creek Paintball. The hearing before the Board of Zoning Appeals has been postponed and delayed in the wake of questions from both the county and critical neighbors.

But Waters has kept with it. The hearing is now scheduled for Oct. 1. And it’s looking good for Castle Creek.

According to a newly released staff report, the paintball facility will consume roughly 75 acres of Waters’ wife’s family’s 204-acre Clifton farm off Popes Head Road, though the seven roped-off playing fields would be limited to 25 acres. Much of the site will be put into conservation easement.

The proposed facility would offer a variety of games, including “capture the flag” and “attack and defend,” to no more than 1,315 full-day players or 2,630 half-day players per month. The paintball weapons will be limited to compressed air for propellant (precluding the use of CO2). The application also includes the option for outdoor laser tag.

Proposed hours of operation: 1 p.m. to 6 p.m. Wednesday and Thursday, and 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Friday through Sunday.

Waters will provide food truck service to players and a covered area with picnic tables. He plans to install an office trailer and a temporary restroom facility, but contrary to the initial application (it has since been scaled back), there will be no permanent buildings constructed on the site.

Why scale back? Because the original bid was doomed. As staff notes in its report, “future intensification of the use could result in negative impacts to the rural nature of the area and the natural resources present on the site.”

The number of Castle Creek players will be limited by the capacity of the septic system that will be installed at Castle Creek. The septic system will have an alarm that requires the facility to shut down should the “amount of use” approach the pre-set limit.

“Staff believes that since the applicant has substantially reduced the original proposal to the lower intensity use that is now the subject of the application, using only small-scale, more temporary structures, generating fewer anticipated vehicle trips coupled with limitations on the operating hours, the proposed special permit is in harmony with the intent of the land use recommendations of the Comprehensive Plan,” per the report.

There is no mention of paintball in Fairfax County's Zoning Ordinance. The zoning administrator interpreted it to be most similar to a skeet or trapshooting range, both of which are allowed in rural districts with a special permit.

The thumbs-up from staff does not preclude neighbors from challenging the permit before the BZA. A local group, the Popes Head Creek Crisis Program, led by high school student Jake Galla, is urging neighbors to sign up for the hearing and to testify in opposition. The occasionally nasty dispute between Galla and his supporters, and Waters and his backers, has been largely quiet since July.

As a homeowner on Pocol Drive since 1989, I am distressed to hear that the land would be put to unnecessary commercial use such as a paintball facility. In a few years, the lure of the new passtime will be over. The land will be permanently ruined. The tenure of our pristine rural setting will be ruined. The roads will be dangerous and overcrowded by drivers who do not know how to drive on winding roads with no shoulder. This is unfortunate and Fairfax County should be ashamed to even countenance such an operation which is clearly only for profic and not for improvement of the community.

Our 14 year old son, Jake, has lead this fight in the community for over a year before anyone really knew about this development. He has been talking to neighbors, organizing them and getting the word out. It is now getting the attention of the Washington Business Journal again. We even have local politicians calling us offering their support.

Until the developer withdraws his application we will continue to oppose the paint ball business. If you live in our neighborhood please contact your local and state representatives. They will respond and help us. If you don’t, be prepared for what we will get. We are proud of our son for his passion, his resolve, his vision and his ability to rally a community at such a young age. He has a great future ahead of him whatever he decides to do. Mature way beyond his years. Rock on brother!

Good luck to them--the one in Aldie was there before most of the neighbors that complain about IT, but Loudoun (particularly "rural") has special snowflake syndrome on steroids.

We the people of Clifton have decided that these 200 acres are to be our own private park, though we will pay nothing to the owners of the property. We will force them to sell the land to developers for McMansions before we allow it to be used for any purpose.

Hey, all we want to do is run around in the woods and have some fun.

Paintball is so 1990. Make it exciting and use BB guns and goggles instead.

If you consider the dangerous road that is twisty and up/down, with blind spots around the turn before the paintball, we are bound to see wahoos wrapped around a tree, rear ending, or on a ditch after a paintball. It;s unbelievable that the zoning appeals is EVEN CONSIDERING this given the SAFETY of the road that the property is LOCATED. VDOT, where the hell are you???? Use your common sense, BZA!!!! Also, we have enough speedster on the road thinking they are on a racetrack going down 60mph. For goodness sakes, FIX THE DAMN POTHOLES too!!!

Jake Gala's Dad Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Our 14 year old son, Jake, has lead this fight in
> the community for over a year before anyone really
> knew about this development. He has been talking
> to neighbors, organizing them and getting the word
> out. It is now getting the attention of the
> Washington Business Journal again. We even have
> local politicians calling us offering their
> support.
>
> Until the developer withdraws his application we
> will continue to oppose the paint ball business.
> If you live in our neighborhood please contact
> your local and state representatives. They will
> respond and help us. If you don’t, be prepared
> for what we will get. We are proud of our son for
> his passion, his resolve, his vision and his
> ability to rally a community at such a young age.
> He has a great future ahead of him whatever he
> decides to do. Mature way beyond his years. Rock
> on brother!

You guys should go fuck yourselves. Where do you get off telling a private landowner what he should do with his property, just because you don't like it.

N va Lifer Wrote:
> You guys should go fuck yourselves. Where do you
> get off telling a private landowner what he should
> do with his property, just because you don't like
> it.


Its the new NOVA....The "I'm more important than you" mentality. If people would realize how much of a fucktard it made them look, they might stop. But they are more worried abut the bug guts on their BMW and trying to get their grande skinny frappalotta with extra scroat-foam.

Both my boys played paintball at Pevs and Hog Back mtn.. Nothing but good clean fun. This 14 yr old boy needs to take off his mommy's dress and do what normal boys his age do.

Carol Wright Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a homeowner on Pocol Drive since 1989, I am
> distressed to hear that the land would be put to
> unnecessary commercial use such as a paintball
> facility. In a few years, the lure of the new
> passtime will be over. The land will be
> permanently ruined. The tenure of our pristine
> rural setting will be ruined. The roads will be
> dangerous and overcrowded by drivers who do not
> know how to drive on winding roads with no
> shoulder. This is unfortunate and Fairfax County
> should be ashamed to even countenance such an
> operation which is clearly only for profic and not
> for improvement of the community.


Carol. Buy the land, then you can do what you want with it. Until then, enjoy living in the United States, where people are free to pursue their individual interests. This is how the proverbial cookie crumbles.

Your claims about the lure decreasing over time and land being ruined are completely false as well. Are there any FACTUAL reasons this person shouldn't be able to do what they want with their land?

This has been a long exercise in something we see too often in this area, which is overbearing parents trying to prove they have some sort of prodigy child. This popes head crisis program is a resume builder for when this kid applies to UVA. Good for the kid, I guess it's better than playing video games, but isn't this just another obvious case of parents doing their kids' homework? I mean, you can't reasonably think that a 14 year old is familiar enough with any sort of due process to handle this on his own. The parents would disagree but we all know it's true - he's just their mouthpiece for all of this.

My true gripe is that they're getting in the way of real profitability of a family that owns real land. This is not some sort of game about Facebook likes. They're getting in the way of someone making a living. I'm sure the tenants of the area don't want the extra traffic, but as pointed out above, this is America. This is the American dream playing out - you can own land and start a business, whether others like it or not. Get out of the way. Please.

N va Lifer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jake Gala's Dad Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Our 14 year old son, Jake, has lead this fight
> in
> > the community for over a year before anyone
> really
> > knew about this development. He has been
> talking
> > to neighbors, organizing them and getting the
> word
> > out. It is now getting the attention of the
> > Washington Business Journal again. We even have
> > local politicians calling us offering their
> > support.
> >
> > Until the developer withdraws his application
> we
> > will continue to oppose the paint ball
> business.
> > If you live in our neighborhood please contact
> > your local and state representatives. They will
> > respond and help us. If you don’t, be
> prepared
> > for what we will get. We are proud of our son
> for
> > his passion, his resolve, his vision and his
> > ability to rally a community at such a young
> age.
> > He has a great future ahead of him whatever he
> > decides to do. Mature way beyond his years.
> Rock
> > on brother!
>
> You guys should go fuck yourselves. Where do you
> get off telling a private landowner what he should
> do with his property, just because you don't like
> it.

That area consists of 2 kinds of people, long time residents and dickhead carpet baggers. If they developed it , there would be more dickhead carpetbaggers that come here strictly for a job and then tell everyone else how they should live.

The owner should sell the land and let a developer put in a bunch of section 8 townhouses and condos just to piss off all the bitching neighbors.

I'll take a paintball field any day over the land being developed.

If University Mall Theatre could raise $100,000 for new seats in a month, imagine what a plea for money to open paintball in Clifton would raise.

Copy of my letter to the BZA and Sharon Bulova

To Whom It May Concern

Thank you for considering my electronic (email) input, as it would not be convenient for me to attend the actual hearing tomorrow at 900A, but I still want my voice to be heard.

I wish to voice my opposition to bringing a disruptive, noisy commercial operation into a quiet residential area. My wife and I live on Pocol Drive in a house located midway up the street from Popes Head Road and one of the boundaries of the proposed paintball facility. One of our reasons back in 1999 for purchasing the house, where we raised our two children, was the rural look of the location. Our plan, at least until news of the facility came our way, has always been to stay put for another fifteen years or so, perhaps moving in the 2030 time frame. With the disruption of the neighborhood this operation will cause, we may have to rethink our plans. We always understood that since the area was zoned residential some of the undeveloped land around us (largely broken into five acre lots, if I understand correctly) might eventually have homes built; however, these would never be intrusive in any way as belts of trees on the property lines would likely remain, preserving a sense of quiet and privacy.

Never in our wildest dreams could we have envisioned a paintball facility being dropped a couple of hundred yards away from our home. The land was not zoned for any kind of commercial use that we knew of; how can Fairfax County suddenly contemplate rezoning it for commercial use just so one person can make a little money at the expense of the hundreds of people who have to live in close proximity to the operation? This is absolutely a case of “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few,” or in this case, the needs of the one. I do not want to go on overly long, so I will summarize my concerns about this facility as follows:

1. Even though I am located at least a quarter of a mile up the street from the facility boundary, I still expect to have to listen to the incessant pop-pop-pop of the paintball guns and the continuous whoops and cheers of the players anytime I have the windows open or am sitting outside. Basically, any day nice enough for me to have the windows open or be outside will be exactly the kind of day droves of players will descend upon the facility to play. Why do I have to listen to that 200 days out of the year?

2. I expect my property values will drop drastically. When it comes time for my wife and I to sell, who on earth is going to want to buy a house in immediate proximity to a paint ball facility, unless we drop the price of the house by $100,000 (or more)? Is Mr. Waters going to reimburse my wife and I for the money out of our pockets because the value of our house drops, just so he can make a few hundred thousand dollars a year? My wife and I might now need to discuss selling and getting out before this facility opens, although at this point, we would probably be required to disclose the problem to any new buyer, so either way we are likely out of luck if this facility is approved.

3. This is none of my concern, but it seems to me, if any development of currently undeveloped lots in our area is ever contemplated, what developer would ever want to try to build new homes near a paintball facility? Assuming many of the lots are indeed five acres, what wealthy person would ever want to buy a large new home near such an operation? I don’t know the status of the land, or whether there are other restrictions slowing down development, but nonetheless, this still sounds to me like plenty of potential future Fairfax County tax base (in terms of homeowner taxes) forever going up in smoke just so one man can open a business. And just out of curiosity. Do all the people who own undeveloped land adjacent to this proposed facility living elsewhere, including out-of-state owners, have any idea what is about to happen to the value of THEIR real estate investments?

4. Finally, at the risk of stereotyping, I believe the demographic for paint balling is - how shall I put this - exuberant young men. I expect to see a drastic increase in the number of vehicles hot rodding up and down Pocol Drive (already a problem as it is, with the street being a 3/4 mile straight away); I expect to be cleaning up beer cans and cigarettes off my lawn from early spring to late fall; quite frankly, I expect to see an uptick of crime as our largely unknown and unnoticed street suddenly appears on the radar of any criminal elements who might also happen to enjoy paint balling in their spare time. If you insist on approving this facility, can you at least budget to put speed bumps on our street, and increase the police presence to keep a lid on things?

To summarize, the Vannoy Park location is a residential area. Please keep it that way. Thank you for your consideration.

People who are commenting here on this post and telling us to go fuck ourselves based on individual right, do NOT live here. If it was on your back yard, you'd be fighting against it.

Jeff Waters - you should live here if you want to pursue your retirement money to generate income. This is all about your money in your pocket to generate income.

AGAIN, if you don't know how dangerous the road is before you make entrance into the proposed property, no one on BZA with with right mind should approve this. The volume of traffic will not support. If anyone gets hurt or dies, the county should be sued for this because BZA had prior knowledge.

I really hope this does not get approved. Newman Rd was not built to handle commercial traffic and the land is not zoned for commercial use. Mr Walters shoud sell the land and buy another piece of land elsewhere that is zoned for commercial use if he wishes to pursue a paintball facility.

Seeing that the Paradise Springs winery was approved for operation I don't think the county will have any issues approving a paintball facility. The road it's on (Yates Ford) was certainly not built to handle the traffic that the winery gets, especially when the patrons of that establishment are likely impaired when they leave.

I applaud your comments on freedom and individual rights, as I'm a constitutionalist as well. I'm all for paintball and fun, but not in my backyard. If you don't live here and you don't understand how DANGEROUS the road is before the entrance into the facility, you are naive.

Imagine if there was a traffic backup into the parking of the proposed facility and someone is coming around the corner and cannot see if there was a backup, someone is going to get hurt seriously pr get killed. And if any of the young teenagers are texting, you minds well called popes head road, "decapitated head" road. TODAY, there is no reason for traffic backup because it's residential.

Someone from VDOT should evaluate the safety of the road for a commercial use!!!!!

popes head home owner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I applaud your comments on freedom and individual
> rights, as I'm a constitutionalist as well. I'm
> all for paintball and fun, but not in my backyard.
> If you don't live here and you don't understand
> how DANGEROUS the road is before the entrance into
> the facility, you are naive.
>
> Imagine if there was a traffic backup into the
> parking of the proposed facility and someone is
> coming around the corner and cannot see if there
> was a backup, someone is going to get hurt
> seriously pr get killed. And if any of the young
> teenagers are texting, you minds well called popes
> head road, "decapitated head" road. TODAY, there
> is no reason for traffic backup because it's
> residential.
>
> Someone from VDOT should evaluate the safety of
> the road for a commercial use!!!!!


Sounds more like you're just using that as an excuse.

Here's the truth - You'll be opposed to anyone doing anything with the property other than maybe turning it into park land.

More development is coming to the area one way or another. Rather than trying to find a reason to oppose any, you'd be better served by looking at things on a more relative basis.

Existing fields are in BFE Loudon county.

Face Facts wrote:

"Here's the truth - You'll be opposed to anyone doing anything with the property other than maybe turning it into park land."

Absolutely not true of me. Just anything but paintball. Because sorry folks, paintball facilities and a substantial percentage of the clientele who frequent them are a public nuisance and such an operation should not be dropped in the middle of an existing neighborhood.

If Mr. Waters wants to sell all 200+ acres and some developer builds 40 McMansions, I'd be fine with that - it won't be a public nuisance and it will actually make my property values go up.

If he turns it into a mini-Cox farm, great. It won't be a public nuisance and I'll likely be buying produce from him as soon as he opens.

If he puts a winery in - fine - it won't be a public nuisance and I can walk down there and drink a bottle of his best vintage with him.

Hell, if he brought in cows or horses, or a 1000 pigs or goats to raise them for meat, or llamas or alpacas to make sweaters, I wouldn't care. He could run a monkey farm and I wouldn't care. Those things aren't a public nuisance.

None of those things will make my property values go down. Paintball will. If you doubt that, consider a typical young couple a few years from now who have looked at a three or four bedroom colonial in one of the developments on the other side of Braddock Road from us, and now they come to look at our similar house that we just put on the market, only our house is right next to a paintball facility. Seriously, Which house are they going to buy, unless I drop my price by tens of thousands of dollars below what the other one is priced? None of those other activities I mentioned above will have the same detrimental effect. Well, except maybe a monkey farm...

I'm fine with Mr. Waters doing just about anything with his property. As long as it doesn't drive my home value down. Paintball is just about the worst thing he could have possibly come up with, other than a toxic waste dump, a steel mill, or a combination casino/brothel. I wish to God he'd come up with some other idea to make money off his property. How on earth did he come up with this?

Most of those uses would have more actual negative impact on your property than a paintball field.

popes head home owner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I applaud your comments on freedom and individual
> rights, as I'm a constitutionalist as well. I'm
> all for paintball and fun, but not in my backyard.
> If you don't live here and you don't understand
> how DANGEROUS the road is before the entrance into
> the facility, you are naive.
>
> Imagine if there was a traffic backup into the
> parking of the proposed facility and someone is
> coming around the corner and cannot see if there
> was a backup, someone is going to get hurt
> seriously pr get killed. And if any of the young
> teenagers are texting, you minds well called popes
> head road, "decapitated head" road. TODAY, there
> is no reason for traffic backup because it's
> residential.
>
> Someone from VDOT should evaluate the safety of
> the road for a commercial use!!!!!

Nice excuse but you showed your hand with the "not in my backyard" comment. That is the problem with this whole area. You people don't care about others. Only yourselves and what you like/want. Go buy the fucking land and then you can do what you want because it's yours. Until you put your money where you mouth is, enjoy someone else trying to make a living in America.

Fucking cliftonites Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> popes head home owner Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I applaud your comments on freedom and
> individual
> > rights, as I'm a constitutionalist as well.
> I'm
> > all for paintball and fun, but not in my
> backyard.
> > If you don't live here and you don't
> understand
> > how DANGEROUS the road is before the entrance
> into
> > the facility, you are naive.
> >
> > Imagine if there was a traffic backup into the
> > parking of the proposed facility and someone is
> > coming around the corner and cannot see if
> there
> > was a backup, someone is going to get hurt
> > seriously pr get killed. And if any of the
> young
> > teenagers are texting, you minds well called
> popes
> > head road, "decapitated head" road. TODAY,
> there
> > is no reason for traffic backup because it's
> > residential.
> >
> > Someone from VDOT should evaluate the safety of
> > the road for a commercial use!!!!!
>
> Nice excuse but you showed your hand with the "not
> in my backyard" comment. That is the problem with
> this whole area. You people don't care about
> others. Only yourselves and what you like/want. Go
> buy the fucking land and then you can do what you
> want because it's yours. Until you put your money
> where you mouth is, enjoy someone else trying to
> make a living in America.


Ex-fuckingaxtly, Nobody would even notice there's paintball going on in there. No back ups on the road, it's not that popular of a past time that there will be thousands of people clogging the roads. Might look like there's a good yard sale down the street once in a while.
Teaching your kid to be a little dick to get your way and entitled to try and change decisions you don't agree with is what's making this country go down the shitter. Little fucker has no idea about a paintball facility or daddys real estate value, he just hears it from his parents and decides to try and be the center of attention.
The truth comes out, you would just love to see the land owner sell and mcmansions go up so your property values go up a little.

It seems like everybody is about "liberty" and the other buzz words, but in reality, they aren't. That goes double for Libertarians and Libs who are the biggest offenders of this bullshit.

BTW, isn't it funny a lot of people claim to be Constitutional Scholars, yet don't know what the document actually says? News flash, just cause you spent 3 hours on Wikipedia reading it, doesn't make you some fucking expert.

It makes you a giant toolbag.

Let them open the paintball place, that shit will be out of business in a year or so.

Pocol Drive Homeowner,

You are worried about traffic related to a paintball facility (which I doubt would be too significant) but you would be ok with a 'mini-Cox farm'? Have you ever been to Cox farm during their fall festival? Traffic is a shit show and there are probably 10x as many people there than at all the paintball facilities in the state of virginia combined. You are ok with a winery as well, which would probably see more traffic than a paintball facility.

Putting a paint ball facility on a 200 acre piece of property is not what I would call being 'dropped in the middle of an existing neighborhood'. Nice try.

You are worried about the value of your home and selling it. You don't exactly live on a street that is very appealing to a young couple (which you referred to), it's a street with mcmansions and shacks next door to each other. I don't think there is a less desireable location in that immediate area other than directly on Pope Head or Colchester Rd. If you bought in 1999 I'm sure your property value has increased significantly already and any decrease in property value as a result of a paintball facility will be a very small portion of the appreciation you have already seen.

Get over it, it's fucking paintball, not an amusement park. There are plenty of palces you can move to if you would like to have more privacy, Fairfax Conty was a poor choice if that's what your desire is.

Pocol Drive Homeowner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Face Facts wrote:
>
> "Here's the truth - You'll be opposed to anyone
> doing anything with the property other than maybe
> turning it into park land."
>
> Absolutely not true of me. Just anything but
> paintball. Because sorry folks, paintball
> facilities and a substantial percentage of the
> clientele who frequent them are a public nuisance
> and such an operation should not be dropped in the
> middle of an existing neighborhood.
>
> If Mr. Waters wants to sell all 200+ acres and
> some developer builds 40 McMansions, I'd be fine
> with that - it won't be a public nuisance and it
> will actually make my property values go up.
>
> If he turns it into a mini-Cox farm, great. It
> won't be a public nuisance and I'll likely be
> buying produce from him as soon as he opens.
>
> If he puts a winery in - fine - it won't be a
> public nuisance and I can walk down there and
> drink a bottle of his best vintage with him.
>
> Hell, if he brought in cows or horses, or a 1000
> pigs or goats to raise them for meat, or llamas or
> alpacas to make sweaters, I wouldn't care. He
> could run a monkey farm and I wouldn't care. Those
> things aren't a public nuisance.
>
> None of those things will make my property values
> go down. Paintball will. If you doubt that,
> consider a typical young couple a few years from
> now who have looked at a three or four bedroom
> colonial in one of the developments on the other
> side of Braddock Road from us, and now they come
> to look at our similar house that we just put on
> the market, only our house is right next to a
> paintball facility. Seriously, Which house are
> they going to buy, unless I drop my price by tens
> of thousands of dollars below what the other one
> is priced? None of those other activities I
> mentioned above will have the same detrimental
> effect. Well, except maybe a monkey farm...
>
> I'm fine with Mr. Waters doing just about anything
> with his property. As long as it doesn't drive my
> home value down. Paintball is just about the worst
> thing he could have possibly come up with, other
> than a toxic waste dump, a steel mill, or a
> combination casino/brothel. I wish to God he'd
> come up with some other idea to make money off his
> property. How on earth did he come up with this?


Me, me, ME! Fuck Mr. Waters and his land. ME!

Pocol Drive Homeowner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Consider a typical young couple a few years from
> now who have looked at a three or four bedroom
> colonial in one of the developments on the other
> side of Braddock Road from us, and now they come
> to look at our similar house that we just put on
> the market, only our house is right next to a
> paintball facility. Seriously, Which house are
> they going to buy,


Wow, if I could buy a house in the Clifton area within walking distance of Paintball for me and my kids I would pay a premium for it. There is so little for kids to do in the Clifton area it baffles me why anyone would buy there.

Except maybe laser tag. I love laser tag. Just the child in me that won't let go, I suppose.

^^^ That may explain why so many Pocol Drive and Popes Head Road area teens are arrested for drunk driving and drug possession. Big houses, small morals, too much free time.

Pocol Drive Homeowner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> 4. Finally, at the risk of stereotyping, I
> believe the demographic for paint balling is - how
> shall I put this - exuberant young men. I expect
> to see a drastic increase in the number of
> vehicles hot rodding up and down Pocol Drive
> (already a problem as it is, with the street being
> a 3/4 mile straight away); I expect to be cleaning
> up beer cans and cigarettes off my lawn from early
> spring to late fall; quite frankly, I expect to
> see an uptick of crime as our largely unknown and
> unnoticed street suddenly appears on the radar of
> any criminal elements who might also happen to
> enjoy paint balling in their spare time. If you
> insist on approving this facility, can you at
> least budget to put speed bumps on our street, and
> increase the police presence to keep a lid on
> things?
>
> To summarize, the Vannoy Park location is a
> residential area. Please keep it that way. Thank
> you for your consideration.

What a pompous piece of shit you are. I dropped my kid off at Pev's paintball for a birthday party and saw exactly that - kids gathering for birthday parties. I didn't see the beer can throwing, cigarette smoking neanderthals you speak of. I can't believe you actually put that in writing. You're the type of "get off my lawn" Nancy that we all hate in this area - concerned only with how things affect you and nobody else. This would take up 1/8 of his total land. Get out of here with that noise and traffic nonsense.

Approach this from a realistic sense, understanding that very few people are actually going to play at this field. It will have nowhere near the impact that you try to drum up in your ridiculous letter. As said above, you live in America. Buy his land or fucking deal with it.

Could we have an ISA campus instead?

No, I don't think so.

In the past the inspectors that came to my house were professional, informative, and returned phone calls.
Moncure is totally uninformative in that he never returns a phone call or leaves written outlines of what he thinks needs to be done.
When I left messages I make a considerable effort to speak a bit slower than usual especially when leaving my phone number.
When he goes to my house he leaves blank pieces of paper. This is a totally useless thing to do. Unless you are trying to hide something.

The few times I have seen him at my house he would say one thing was an issue and other things were not.
When the court notice came things he had said were not an issue suddenly were an issue. and entirely too late for me to anything about. He asked me about my old pickup the first time he came and said the PERMANENT registration made it OK. The second time he slammed me into court that same pickup truck was added to his list of things not allowed just before court. He had already approved that truck… twice!
If he keeps changing his mind it will always be impossible to ever “conform”.
It is consistent with the co.s lawyer and this agent’s statement that they will harass me frequently “for as long as I live in my house!!

This means I feel he is lying to me intentionally. And in this way he is at the same time lying to the judge. The judge is counting on him to do his job according to his job description on the Fairfax co. web site. I read it and he is not!
The first item on his job description is making an effort to avoid the courtroom.
I read his job description on Fairfax co.s web site.

He and that lawyer, that was with him, told me they were going to go to my house very often to drag me back into court until they had tricked the court into taking everything I have. The phrase they used was “as long as you live in that house”. Until they get me “broke and homeless” I guess. They made that statement in a casual manner that told me this is just “business as usual” for them.

Is Fairfax really the new version of the NAZI’s Warsaw ghetto of 1936-1944?
I consider their statement a threat on my life. I have the most basic right to defend myself from them by whatever means they insist on.

What I and my neighbors are most sure is going on is an end run around the eminent domain law. Fairfax has figured out how to get the banks to evict people, for them.
By financially abusing the life out of selected citizens (QUITE LITERALLY) the county does not get the bad press of misusing that law again while getting the pros, I.E. the banks, to do the evictions for them. This helps the county get the house into the hands of the developers faster so the county can raise dramatically more tax money from the people. People have no value to the electeds beyond what they can steal from them.
I.E, tax away from them.
The fact they are resorting to this methodology shows they are totally incompetent and don’t care about any citizen.
The only thing the electeds care about is how much more money they can take from everyone else. So they can write bigger paychecks for themselves.

E

what in the fuck are you talking about

so this 14 year old is busy protesting residential/commercial zoning? Or I guess I should say his parents are and are trying to tout him as some community savior. Fucking A, I need to move.

I'd like to thank these selfish Clifton carpetbaggers for continuing to reinforce the opinion of the rest of this county - that you're just selfish, pompous, assholes. Can't wait to play paintball.

Fucking Cliftonites Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to thank these selfish Clifton
> carpetbaggers for continuing to reinforce the
> opinion of the rest of this county - that you're
> just selfish, pompous, assholes. Can't wait to
> play paintball.


How was Clifton day?

Fucking Cliftonites Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd like to thank these selfish Clifton
> carpetbaggers for continuing to reinforce the
> opinion of the rest of this county - that you're
> just selfish, pompous, assholes. Can't wait to
> play paintball.


The real reason they closed Clifton es -jealously

Paintball fields have insurance policies that require them to enforce rules very strictly. It's no longer the backwoods game it was in the early 90's. It's a good way to make a buck, which you all won't let this guy do.

It's most profitable in a model where they book private parties where they can rent gear, which drives away the "young men" that you think will ruin your community. They all play in MD, where the tournament scene is bigger, and probably would go unnoticed even if they were there. Way to look like an out-of-touch alarmist putting those generalizations in a letter with your name on it.

KtJPP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paintball fields have insurance policies that
> require them to enforce rules very strictly. It's
> no longer the backwoods game it was in the early
> 90's. It's a good way to make a buck, which you
> all won't let this guy do.
>
> It's most profitable in a model where they book
> private parties where they can rent gear, which
> drives away the "young men" that you think will
> ruin your community. They all play in MD, where
> the tournament scene is bigger, and probably would
> go unnoticed even if they were there. Way to look
> like an out-of-touch alarmist putting those
> generalizations in a letter with your name on it.


But they have GUNS!!!

I WAS AT THE NEW MILITARY MUSEUM IN NVA (southmost of)

IT'S A TOTAL FRAUD. ALLOT OF HIGH PRICED FAKES SOMEONE GOT PAID BIG MONEY FOR.

ALMOST THE WHO PLACE IS TOTALLY FAKE - HARDLY A SINGLE REAL PIECE OF HISTORY IN THE "MUSEUM"

I see plenty of trolls have been posting lately, or maybe it's all the same guy posting multiple times using different names. This will be the last time I post anything here because, as the saying goes, if you argue with an idiot, it's hard for anyone else watching to tell who the idiot is...

What part of "My property values are going to drop if this goes through, and I'm going to be out thousands - probably tens of thousands of dollars" do you not understand????? I'm selfish because I don't want to get screwed out of a boatload of money? Really? So if I go outside someday and I find my car's been stolen, should I shutup about that too and not report it, because "it's all about me?" Really?

One man's freedom ends where another's begins. It may be LEGAL for this guy to open this public nuisance because there's no specific law on the County books forbidding him from doing it, but that don't make it RIGHT for him to screw a hundred other people out of their property values and their peace and their quiet.

Let me remind you we're talking about a guy sitting on 200 acres - at $250K an acre around here that's about $50M. We live in a country where half the people are barely making minimum wage and can't make ends meet and this guy is a millionaire 50 times over, and he's the one who's so put upon here? Give me a break. He can't figure out a way to do something with this land to make money without screwing his neighbors? He can't sell half the land, let them build 25 McMansions for other millionaires like him on the far side of his property so he doesn't even have to see them, and live like a king off the proceeds for the rest of his life? Who's the one being selfish here?

And BTW, if you don't live around here, MYOFB

Pocol Drive Homeowner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see plenty of trolls have been posting lately,
> or maybe it's all the same guy posting multiple
> times using different names. This will be the last
> time I post anything here because, as the saying
> goes, if you argue with an idiot, it's hard for
> anyone else watching to tell who the idiot is...
>
> What part of "My property values are going to drop
> if this goes through, and I'm going to be out
> thousands - probably tens of thousands of dollars"
> do you not understand????? I'm selfish because I
> don't want to get screwed out of a boatload of
> money? Really? So if I go outside someday and I
> find my car's been stolen, should I shutup about
> that too and not report it, because "it's all
> about me?" Really?
>
> One man's freedom ends where another's begins. It
> may be LEGAL for this guy to open this public
> nuisance because there's no specific law on the
> County books forbidding him from doing it, but
> that don't make it RIGHT for him to screw a
> hundred other people out of their property values
> and their peace and their quiet.
>
> Let me remind you we're talking about a guy
> sitting on 200 acres - at $250K an acre around
> here that's about $50M. We live in a country where
> half the people are barely making minimum wage and
> can't make ends meet and this guy is a millionaire
> 50 times over, and he's the one who's so put upon
> here? Give me a break. He can't figure out a way
> to do something with this land to make money
> without screwing his neighbors? He can't sell half
> the land, let them build 25 McMansions for other
> millionaires like him on the far side of his
> property so he doesn't even have to see them, and
> live like a king off the proceeds for the rest of
> his life? Who's the one being selfish here?
>
> And BTW, if you don't live around here, MYOFB


Yeah cause building 25 McMansions will have less impact than ~50 kids playing paintball on a weekend.

lol

Pocol Drive Homeowner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see plenty of trolls have been posting lately,
> or maybe it's all the same guy posting multiple
> times using different names. This will be the last
> time I post anything here because, as the saying
> goes, if you argue with an idiot, it's hard for
> anyone else watching to tell who the idiot is...
>
> What part of "My property values are going to drop
> if this goes through, and I'm going to be out
> thousands - probably tens of thousands of dollars"
> do you not understand????? I'm selfish because I
> don't want to get screwed out of a boatload of
> money? Really? So if I go outside someday and I
> find my car's been stolen, should I shutup about
> that too and not report it, because "it's all
> about me?" Really?
>
> One man's freedom ends where another's begins. It
> may be LEGAL for this guy to open this public
> nuisance because there's no specific law on the
> County books forbidding him from doing it, but
> that don't make it RIGHT for him to screw a
> hundred other people out of their property values
> and their peace and their quiet.
>
> Let me remind you we're talking about a guy
> sitting on 200 acres - at $250K an acre around
> here that's about $50M. We live in a country where
> half the people are barely making minimum wage and
> can't make ends meet and this guy is a millionaire
> 50 times over, and he's the one who's so put upon
> here? Give me a break. He can't figure out a way
> to do something with this land to make money
> without screwing his neighbors? He can't sell half
> the land, let them build 25 McMansions for other
> millionaires like him on the far side of his
> property so he doesn't even have to see them, and
> live like a king off the proceeds for the rest of
> his life? Who's the one being selfish here?
>
> And BTW, if you don't live around here, MYOFB

I fully understand the land value aspect. Your jealousy for this guys' wealth/land aside, you're getting screwed just like any other victim of eminent domain has in history. Look on the bright side, you get to keep your house. Instead of the government behind it, it's capitalism (the reason you were able to buy your house). As the saying goes, "life isn't fair".

The real reason I'm having fun at your expense is the ridiculous letter you wrote. You could have kept it factual but you crossed that invisible line that automatically dubbed you an asshole. To serve every stereotype someone would have against you in this scenario, you make the public assumption that everyone that plays paintball is an exuberant young man that drinks, smokes and commits crime. You then sent it with your name on it and posted it to a public forum.

Let's point out what's clear here - you're not used to having your number pulled. You hit the nail on the head that he's legally entitled to do what he wants with the land. He's probably sitting on it until the price per acre goes up even further, so I wouldn't worry any further about his finances. Maybe he's just a better member of the community than you are...providing an outlet and standing up against big developers might be a more important than a payout. This guy is looking more like a role model and I think you're learning a good lesson here.

And if someone steals your car, you should report it - since stealing cars is illegal. Building paintball fields is not. Take a step down from your Ivory tower and go talk to the folks who bought near the Jiffy Lube Live site in 1995 - they'll remind you how petty your problem is.

My property value went down when they closed ces and you don't hear me complaining ..... Oh wait

my property value went down when they cut down all the trees that used to back to my house. take a number.

Pocol Drive Homeowner - Nobody's buying land in Clifton for anywhere NEAR $250K an acres. I'd be happy to sell my lot for $1.25M, but it is not happening. At the height of the market 5 acre lots were going for $750K, so $150K an acre. Therefore 200 acres might have gone for $30M at the height of the market, but would likely be closer to $20M today. Not chump change I admit, but nowhere near $50M.

BTW I hate people on this board's misuse of "McMansion". I nice home on 5 acres is not a McMansion. A McMansion is typically defined as a home, often teardown in an older neighborhood, that is too large for the lot, is cheaply built, and "gives the appearance of crowding adjacent homes. A couple of those houses on Colchester might qualify, but I've seen 14,000 sq. ft. homes that don't crowd 5 acre lots.

Look douchebag. 200 acres of undeveloped land that doesn't perk is worth squat until somebody comes along with many millions to pay for the site plan and push it through the county for a few years while it sits idle still having taxes that need to be paid on it.
It changes nothing of your property values having an out of sight paintball facility there. You really want a few mcmansions built so it will raise your homes value. Nobody believes the bullshit you spew, must be an Obama lover.

I'm gonna go buy a pack of smokes and a 6-pack, fuel up my camaro and take a leisurely spin through this neighborhood after reading that letter.

I'll jump on the bandwagon and mop the floor with Pocol Drive Homeowner. He's in need of it.

Pocol Drive Homeowner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> 1. Even though I am located at least a quarter
> of a mile up the street from the facility
> boundary, I still expect to have to listen to the
> incessant pop-pop-pop of the paintball guns and
> the continuous whoops and cheers of the players
> anytime I have the windows open or am sitting
> outside. Basically, any day nice enough for me to
> have the windows open or be outside will be
> exactly the kind of day droves of players will
> descend upon the facility to play. Why do I have
> to listen to that 200 days out of the year?

You can't hear a paintball gun from 1/4 mile away. 200 days a year? 100, tops. Whoops and cheers?
>
> 2. I expect my property values will drop
> drastically. When it comes time for my wife and I
> to sell, who on earth is going to want to buy a
> house in immediate proximity to a paint ball
> facility, unless we drop the price of the house by
> $100,000 (or more)? Is Mr. Waters going to
> reimburse my wife and I for the money out of our
> pockets because the value of our house drops, just
> so he can make a few hundred thousand dollars a
> year? My wife and I might now need to discuss
> selling and getting out before this facility
> opens, although at this point, we would probably
> be required to disclose the problem to any new
> buyer, so either way we are likely out of luck if
> this facility is approved.

People are faced with this problem all the time. You are not unique. It's a concept called "development".
>
> 3. This is none of my concern, but it seems to
> me, if any development of currently undeveloped
> lots in our area is ever contemplated, what
> developer would ever want to try to build new
> homes near a paintball facility? Assuming many of
> the lots are indeed five acres, what wealthy
> person would ever want to buy a large new home
> near such an operation? I don’t know the status
> of the land, or whether there are other
> restrictions slowing down development, but
> nonetheless, this still sounds to me like plenty
> of potential future Fairfax County tax base (in
> terms of homeowner taxes) forever going up in
> smoke just so one man can open a business. And
> just out of curiosity. Do all the people who own
> undeveloped land adjacent to this proposed
> facility living elsewhere, including out-of-state
> owners, have any idea what is about to happen to
> the value of THEIR real estate investments?

You answered this one in your first sentence. None of your business.
>
> 4. Finally, at the risk of stereotyping, I
> believe the demographic for paint balling is - how
> shall I put this - exuberant young men. I expect
> to see a drastic increase in the number of
> vehicles hot rodding up and down Pocol Drive
> (already a problem as it is, with the street being
> a 3/4 mile straight away); I expect to be cleaning
> up beer cans and cigarettes off my lawn from early
> spring to late fall; quite frankly, I expect to
> see an uptick of crime as our largely unknown and
> unnoticed street suddenly appears on the radar of
> any criminal elements who might also happen to
> enjoy paint balling in their spare time. If you
> insist on approving this facility, can you at
> least budget to put speed bumps on our street, and
> increase the police presence to keep a lid on
> things?

Others have picked you apart for this. It is funny since it kills your credibility and makes you sound like an awful person.

Contractors built homes in Clifton.
People bought the homes and moved in.
Contractors built more homes.
More people bought and moved in.
Repeat steps 1 & 2
Repeat steps 3 & 4
There goes the neighborhood.
Fuck Clifton.
Deal with it.

Pocol Drive Homeowner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see plenty of trolls have been posting lately,
> or maybe it's all the same guy posting multiple
> times using different names. This will be the last
> time I post anything here because, as the saying
> goes, if you argue with an idiot, it's hard for
> anyone else watching to tell who the idiot is...
>
> What part of "My property values are going to drop
> if this goes through, and I'm going to be out
> thousands - probably tens of thousands of dollars"
> do you not understand????? I'm selfish because I
> don't want to get screwed out of a boatload of
> money? Really? So if I go outside someday and I
> find my car's been stolen, should I shutup about
> that too and not report it, because "it's all
> about me?" Really?
>
> One man's freedom ends where another's begins. It
> may be LEGAL for this guy to open this public
> nuisance because there's no specific law on the
> County books forbidding him from doing it, but
> that don't make it RIGHT for him to screw a
> hundred other people out of their property values
> and their peace and their quiet.
>
> Let me remind you we're talking about a guy
> sitting on 200 acres - at $250K an acre around
> here that's about $50M. We live in a country where
> half the people are barely making minimum wage and
> can't make ends meet and this guy is a millionaire
> 50 times over, and he's the one who's so put upon
> here? Give me a break. He can't figure out a way
> to do something with this land to make money
> without screwing his neighbors? He can't sell half
> the land, let them build 25 McMansions for other
> millionaires like him on the far side of his
> property so he doesn't even have to see them, and
> live like a king off the proceeds for the rest of
> his life? Who's the one being selfish here?
>
> And BTW, if you don't live around here, MYOFB

NIMBY, your just pissed off you have no control as to what this guy does with his property and he has far more net worth than you.

If he was smart, he would by your whiny ass out and lease or sell your propery to a Paint Ball Game Team.

Nobody likes change that was not their idea.

But you do not even know what paintball is about, no idea how muck it will not bother you.

200 acres, you would whine like a cat in heat if you had to listen to all the constuction of 30-40 houses of the next 5 years. Chain saws, chippers, dozers, dump trucks, reverse alarms, compressors, nail guns, circular saws, all the trash, dust and mud that comes along with the cunstruction to include tresspassing, chrime and illegal dumping that would go along with constuction.

Then talk about all the truck traffic, deliveries and so forth.

You would be FAR better off with a Paint Ball park, use you head or move now before you have to live through 5+ years of construction.

Libertarian principles are generally good, but we have to remember that the tragedy of the commons cuts both ways. When something isn't owned privately, then you have to have laws to avoid the tragedy.

Mr. Waters's land is privately held, but the roads around that land are not. The air that carries noise to his neighbors is not privately held.

Putting a paintball business in the middle of a residential neighborhood is a classic tragedy of the commons. Mr. Waters makes a profit but all of the other people using the air and roads lose out.

To prevent this kind of tragedy, we have zoning laws and we've had them for a very long time. This area is zoned residential has been for a long time. It should stay that way.

The idea that paintball is low impact on noise and traffic like a farm or ranch is simply wrong.

If Mr. Waters wants to make some money with the land, he should build a farm or build some houses (widely spaced per zoning) like everyone else in the area.

With Dave & Busters opening up i think that its going to be great for our youths to be able to enjoy Paintball & Arcades. They should have a Place where u drop off your phones and u pick them up at the entrance

Vk47X Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm gonna go buy a pack of smokes and a 6-pack,
> fuel up my camaro and take a leisurely spin
> through this neighborhood after reading that
> letter.

I am not sure how stating that you will get drunk and speed through a neighborhood full of nice people helps your case that paintball is the way to go for the community. If people like you are attracted to paintball, then I definitely would not appreciate a paintball facility.

anonymous132 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vk47X Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> I am not sure how stating that you will get drunk
> and speed through a neighborhood full of nice
> people helps your case that paintball is the way
> to go for the community. If people like you are
> attracted to paintball, then I definitely would
> not appreciate a paintball facility.

He's poking fun at how all of you have huge sticks up your asses. Seeing as you took his comment literally, I tend to agree that you all have huge sticks up your asses.

GoodGuy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Libertarian principles are generally good, but we
> have to remember that the tragedy of the commons
> cuts both ways. When something isn't owned
> privately, then you have to have laws to avoid the
> tragedy.
>
> Mr. Waters's land is privately held, but the roads
> around that land are not. The air that carries
> noise to his neighbors is not privately held.
>
> Putting a paintball business in the middle of a
> residential neighborhood is a classic tragedy of
> the commons. Mr. Waters makes a profit but all of
> the other people using the air and roads lose
> out.
>
> To prevent this kind of tragedy, we have zoning
> laws and we've had them for a very long time.
> This area is zoned residential has been for a long
> time. It should stay that way.
>
> The idea that paintball is low impact on noise and
> traffic like a farm or ranch is simply wrong.
>
> If Mr. Waters wants to make some money with the
> land, he should build a farm or build some houses
> (widely spaced per zoning) like everyone else in
> the area.

I live by a Burger King and I smell fries all day. Whose shoulder can I cry on about my tragedy? Why is Burger King not sharing their cash with me? Why aren't there zoning laws to prevent this?

I just looked on the "Popes Head Creek Crisis Program" page on facebook. These people are batshit crazy. They even put their names next to their ignorant comments. This is what you get when you live in Northern Virginia.

"Played paintball at Hogback with sons, emphasizes most players are loud, vulgar and uncivil"

Why do you keep making this claim? Do you realize how stupid this ridiculous generalization continues to make all of you look?

"...he can't control the profanity, he can't control the trespassing, he can't control people showing up without calling first to get a ticket."

What!? How can you back all of these claims around only deviants playing paintball? Now the public knows who the morons behind these statements are.

What we have here is a bunch of uninformed, detached and bitter residents upset that someone with more money than them is doing something they don't like.

"Let me remind you we're talking about a guy sitting on 200 acres - at $250K an acre around here that's about $50M. We live in a country where half the people are barely making minimum wage and can't make ends meet and this guy is a millionaire 50 times over, and he's the one who's so put upon here? Give me a break. He can't figure out a way to do something with this land to make money without screwing his neighbors? He can't sell half the land, let them build 25 McMansions for other millionaires like him on the far side of his property so he doesn't even have to see them, and live like a king off the proceeds for the rest of his life? Who's the one being selfish here?"
---------
That whole premise is wrong. Just because one American has money and another (or others) don't, does not make the guy with money (1) the bad guy; (2) responsible for you or anyone else's property values; or (3) owe you any consideration whatsoever. He is just as free as anyone else in America to buy, sell and develope as the law permits. So go stick your nonsensical unAmerican spoiled-brattish crazy-thinking ideas up your dumb ass and STFU Good Grief! Where do people get these crazy ideas? If you want something, get off your lazy fucking ass and earn it or get lucky trying. Don't take it -or expect it- from the guy that did! Can't you see that's wrong?

Paintball facilities are full of kids birthday parties. These people are trying to make it sound like a criminal activity.

Trespassing, vandalism, drinking/smoking, being vulgar, profanity, higher crime?

Have any of you ever BEEN to a paintball field??

YFTnT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> anonymous132 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vk47X Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > I am not sure how stating that you will get
> drunk
> > and speed through a neighborhood full of nice
> > people helps your case that paintball is the
> way
> > to go for the community. If people like you are
> > attracted to paintball, then I definitely would
> > not appreciate a paintball facility.
>
> He's poking fun at how all of you have huge sticks
> up your asses. Seeing as you took his comment
> literally, I tend to agree that you all have huge
> sticks up your asses.


Your vulgarity isn't helping your case either. If people want to have a MATURE debate then they should not make such jokes in poor taste

WhoAreYou? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Let me remind you we're talking about a guy
> sitting on 200 acres - at $250K an acre around
> here that's about $50M. We live in a country where
> half the people are barely making minimum wage and
> can't make ends meet and this guy is a millionaire
> 50 times over, and he's the one who's so put upon
> here? Give me a break. He can't figure out a way
> to do something with this land to make money
> without screwing his neighbors? He can't sell half
> the land, let them build 25 McMansions for other
> millionaires like him on the far side of his
> property so he doesn't even have to see them, and
> live like a king off the proceeds for the rest of
> his life? Who's the one being selfish here?"
> ---------
> That whole premise is wrong. Just because one
> American has money and another (or others) don't,
> does not make the guy with money (1) the bad guy;
> (2) responsible for you or anyone else's property
> values; or (3) owe you any consideration
> whatsoever. He is just as free as anyone else in
> America to buy, sell and develope as the law
> permits. So go stick your nonsensical unAmerican
> spoiled-brattish crazy-thinking ideas up your dumb
> ass and STFU Good Grief! Where do people get
> these crazy ideas? If you want something, get off
> your lazy fucking ass and earn it or get lucky
> trying. Don't take it -or expect it- from the guy
> that did! Can't you see that's wrong?


The man who wants to make the paintball business did not get rich from working hard, he married his wife who was rich. Try doing a little bit of research before taking sides.

LnveL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just looked on the "Popes Head Creek Crisis
> Program" page on facebook. These people are
> batshit crazy. They even put their names next to
> their ignorant comments. This is what you get when
> you live in Northern Virginia.
>
> "Played paintball at Hogback with sons, emphasizes
> most players are loud, vulgar and uncivil"
>
> Why do you keep making this claim? Do you realize
> how stupid this ridiculous generalization
> continues to make all of you look?
>
> "...he can't control the profanity, he can't
> control the trespassing, he can't control people
> showing up without calling first to get a
> ticket."
>
> What!? How can you back all of these claims around
> only deviants playing paintball? Now the public
> knows who the morons behind these statements are.
>
> What we have here is a bunch of uninformed,
> detached and bitter residents upset that someone
> with more money than them is doing something they
> don't like.


If someone built a paintball facility near your home you would be against it too.

agdsg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> If someone built a paintball facility near your
> home you would be against it too.


If someone built a paintball facility near my home, I would buy season tickets for my entire family.

Clifton teens need something to do besides drugs.

Klifton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> agdsg Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > If someone built a paintball facility near your
> > home you would be against it too.
>
>
> If someone built a paintball facility near my
> home, I would buy season tickets for my entire
> family.
>
> Clifton teens need something to do besides drugs.


You would have to listen to and see all the construction they would do to build the place. Your property value would go down because most people don't want to live next to a place where teenagers hang out who play paintball and do drugs. (your words not mine)

guy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WhoAreYou? Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "Let me remind you we're talking about a guy
> > sitting on 200 acres - at $250K an acre around
> > here that's about $50M. We live in a country
> where
> > half the people are barely making minimum wage
> and
> > can't make ends meet and this guy is a
> millionaire
> > 50 times over, and he's the one who's so put
> upon
> > here? Give me a break. He can't figure out a
> way
> > to do something with this land to make money
> > without screwing his neighbors? He can't sell
> half
> > the land, let them build 25 McMansions for
> other
> > millionaires like him on the far side of his
> > property so he doesn't even have to see them,
> and
> > live like a king off the proceeds for the rest
> of
> > his life? Who's the one being selfish here?"
> > ---------
> > That whole premise is wrong. Just because one
> > American has money and another (or others)
> don't,
> > does not make the guy with money (1) the bad
> guy;
> > (2) responsible for you or anyone else's
> property
> > values; or (3) owe you any consideration
> > whatsoever. He is just as free as anyone else
> in
> > America to buy, sell and develope as the law
> > permits. So go stick your nonsensical
> unAmerican
> > spoiled-brattish crazy-thinking ideas up your
> dumb
> > ass and STFU Good Grief! Where do people get
> > these crazy ideas? If you want something, get
> off
> > your lazy fucking ass and earn it or get lucky
> > trying. Don't take it -or expect it- from the
> guy
> > that did! Can't you see that's wrong?
>
>
> The man who wants to make the paintball business
> did not get rich from working hard, he married his
> wife who was rich. Try doing a little bit of
> research before taking sides.

And the people who win $125 million in the lottery just bought a paper ticket at a gas station. Doesn't change the fact he's got a fat bank account which is the ultimate decision maker these days. Like it was pointed out above, how about the people who bought houses before Nissan Pavillion was built. Now that is a noise issue.

Liability coverage is a huge concern at paintball fields, it's a much more controlled situation than it's being made out to be. I'm an adult and have played at Pev's with my sons. The kids playing are taking part in a relatively expensive hobby that they enjoy, not causing trouble. The trouble you're talking about is what kids do when they're bored with nothing to do.

I get it, not in your backyards, but that is a lot of land. This is a much less impactful activity than a bunch of lawyers will portray.

Why would anyone choose Clifton to place a "relatively expensive hobby" for kids?

Oh, wait. I get it.

Why set up an expensive hobby in Clifton? Because it's good business practice and it's more likely to make you rich. Don't pat yourself on the back for figuring that one out. He's setting up a business, not a charity.

There's no good argument against it other than your personal inconvenience. A solution would be to move to communist China, where this sort of thing isn't possible.

I tend to agree that folks are getting a little to worked up over something that seems like a pretty routine venture. I mean the guy can pay for it, what are you gonna do.

Popes head CRISIS? So what are we supposed to call our real problems?

what kind of 14 year old is concerned about home values, residential/commercial zoning and going against something that every 14 year old should love?

The answer is his parents.They're funneling everything through him and this potential business owner is getting dragged through the mud so that this kid can write about it in his college application essays. Pathetic.

The people insulting us need to talk to us face to face. We did not see any of you paintball supporters at the October 1st BZA hearing speaking support of application # SP-2014-SP001. Watch and download the hearing on the Fairfax County website. The paintball case comes in around the 1:30:00 mark and lasts for about 3 hours. Also, none of these people commenting live in the Vannoy Park, Fairfax Hunt, or Megills Crossing subdivisions.

The applicant had 0 speakers in support. 20 speakers showed in opposition, and the 15-year old leader is actually very knowledgeable in the environmental/legal aspects of this case. The kid didn't receive any help from his parents (they're very proud of him, but don't really care about the facility). We saw him attend the Fairfax Hunt Homeowners Association meeting by himself to inform the neighborhood of the issue. He's handed out flyers, made posters, and talked with local politicians. We're quite impressed with him.

Be informed on this issue before stating your opinion. Watch the hearing, go on the tax records, read zoning laws. How stupid you could be to say that condos or town centers will be built on R-C land? The lawyers at the hearing brought up the point that this use was not in harmony with the Comprehensive Plan. The Zoning Administrator carved out an exception to consider this facility in the first place. The BZA members were very frustrated with the staff for their report on the proposed facility, since some of the questions with the business were not answered, such as the limited septic system and types of sales, i.e., food and merchandise on the site.

TL;DR- Zoning-wise the facility should have never been considered and the opposition did an excellent job presenting the case. We'd be willing to bet that none of the paintball supporters live in our subdivisions, so their opinions shall be taken with a grain of salt.

PocolDrive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The people insulting us need to talk to us face to
> face. We did not see any of you paintball
> supporters at the October 1st BZA hearing speaking
> support of application # SP-2014-SP001. Watch and
> download the hearing on the Fairfax County
> website. The paintball case comes in around the
> 1:30:00 mark and lasts for about 3 hours. Also,
> none of these people commenting live in the Vannoy
> Park, Fairfax Hunt, or Megills Crossing
> subdivisions.
>
> The applicant had 0 speakers in support. 20
> speakers showed in opposition, and the 15-year old
> leader is actually very knowledgeable in the
> environmental/legal aspects of this case. The kid
> didn't receive any help from his parents (they're
> very proud of him, but don't really care about the
> facility). We saw him attend the Fairfax Hunt
> Homeowners Association meeting by himself to
> inform the neighborhood of the issue. He's handed
> out flyers, made posters, and talked with local
> politicians. We're quite impressed with him.
>
> Be informed on this issue before stating your
> opinion. Watch the hearing, go on the tax records,
> read zoning laws. How stupid you could be to say
> that condos or town centers will be built on R-C
> land? The lawyers at the hearing brought up the
> point that this use was not in harmony with the
> Comprehensive Plan. The Zoning Administrator
> carved out an exception to consider this facility
> in the first place. The BZA members were very
> frustrated with the staff for their report on the
> proposed facility, since some of the questions
> with the business were not answered, such as the
> limited septic system and types of sales, i.e.,
> food and merchandise on the site.
>
> TL;DR- Zoning-wise the facility should have never
> been considered and the opposition did an
> excellent job presenting the case. We'd be willing
> to bet that none of the paintball supporters live
> in our subdivisions, so their opinions shall be
> taken with a grain of salt.


You idiot. What makes you think people here who have no direct, vested interest in this are going to bother showing up to counter you whiners? Doesn't mean that we can't point out the obvious - that you don't want ANY development and you'll oppose ANYTHING short of selling the land to The Nature Conservancy. You don't really give a shit about any of the dumb overstated impacts of a trivial little paintball operation, they're just excuses.

Higher density development IS coming for your precious little secluded neighborhood whether you like it or not. You may be able to stall it for a while but it WILL come.

If I were the guy and could afford to do it, I'd donate the land to the county for construction of a large-scale affordable housing complex just to piss you fuckers off. lmao

Yeah, and I'm sure that you're real proud of your kid. lol

PocolDrive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The applicant had 0 speakers in support. 20
> speakers showed in opposition, and the 15-year old
> leader is actually very knowledgeable in the
> environmental/legal aspects of this case. The kid
> didn't receive any help from his parents (they're
> very proud of him, but don't really care about the
> facility).

It's not necessary to come to the defense of a business proposal that falls within the confines of the law. Your issue is with zoning legislation and based on what I've read, you have plenty of lawyers/liars to help in that pursuit.

But to say that the teen handled this on his own and his parents don't care is ridiculous. I believe the reason folks are "piling on" is a result of the laughable claims and comments constantly coming from those in the "Crisis" group. Ignorance in numbers.

Welcome to Northern Virginia, home of helicopter parents and painfully litigious individuals. Can't say I didn't warn you.

PocolDrive Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The people insulting us need to talk to us face to
> face. We did not see any of you paintball
> supporters at the October 1st BZA hearing speaking
> support of application # SP-2014-SP001. Watch and
> download the hearing on the Fairfax County
> website. The paintball case comes in around the
> 1:30:00 mark and lasts for about 3 hours. Also,
> none of these people commenting live in the Vannoy
> Park, Fairfax Hunt, or Megills Crossing
> subdivisions.
>
> The applicant had 0 speakers in support. 20
> speakers showed in opposition, and the 15-year old
> leader is actually very knowledgeable in the
> environmental/legal aspects of this case. The kid
> didn't receive any help from his parents (they're
> very proud of him, but don't really care about the
> facility). We saw him attend the Fairfax Hunt
> Homeowners Association meeting by himself to
> inform the neighborhood of the issue. He's handed
> out flyers, made posters, and talked with local
> politicians. We're quite impressed with him.
>
> Be informed on this issue before stating your
> opinion. Watch the hearing, go on the tax records,
> read zoning laws. How stupid you could be to say
> that condos or town centers will be built on R-C
> land? The lawyers at the hearing brought up the
> point that this use was not in harmony with the
> Comprehensive Plan. The Zoning Administrator
> carved out an exception to consider this facility
> in the first place. The BZA members were very
> frustrated with the staff for their report on the
> proposed facility, since some of the questions
> with the business were not answered, such as the
> limited septic system and types of sales, i.e.,
> food and merchandise on the site.
>
> TL;DR- Zoning-wise the facility should have never
> been considered and the opposition did an
> excellent job presenting the case. We'd be willing
> to bet that none of the paintball supporters live
> in our subdivisions, so their opinions shall be
> taken with a grain of salt.

Clearly you're one of his parents. He's 15 so he didn't drive himself to HOA meeting - I assume you dropped him off and waited in the parking lot since this issue is apparently of no concern to you?

And where are all of little Jake Galla's "friends" who are participating in his anti-paintball crusade?

I'm thinking that would be a great place for a Motocross course. Who doesn't like Friday night races under the lights?

Or maybe a gun range.

The county is short on both these days.

DHJJK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And where are all of little Jake Galla's "friends"
> who are participating in his anti-paintball
> crusade?

They're playing paintball at Pev's and Hogback. Probably having a fun time like many teenagers that age tend to do.

Mk4dy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm thinking that would be a great place for a
> Motocross course. Who doesn't like Friday night
> races under the lights?
>
> Or maybe a gun range.
>
> The county is short on both these days.


Combine the two and that would make big money

Turns out the paintball field is scrapped and they're building a farm that will have seasonal activities and serve as an agritourism facility.

These Popes Head Crisis clowns had completely overestimated the effect a paintball field would have and now they'll see more traffic than they ever would have.

Pev's is one of the most established paintball fields in the country, yet they can barely fill the parking lot on weekends - paintball is significantly decreasing in popularity due to its cost. The traffic to Castle Creek would have been minimal and it would likely be out of business within a few seasons.

The nonsense that this "crisis" program spewed by stereotyping those that play paintball and using lopsided analysis will continue to show in their future dealings. I think the jig is up on this teenager apparently running the show as well. The hard-learned lesson will be that in time, capitalism will chew any bureaucratic softie up and spit them out.

To the Popes Head Crisis Program - I hope a cow breaks loose from this farm and takes a fat dump on your doorstep.

You just got it. By chasing the paintballers away you have paved the way for an agritourism operation. The traffic situation may have increased by 25 to 50 times over what a paintball operation would produce. Have you been to Cox Farm around Halloween? Talking about road backups. Loud diesel tractors running almost non-stop. School field trips arriving in large busses. (The students won't be the only ones being schooled. The bitching NIMBY neighbors have just been taught a hard lesson!)
Good job "Popes Head Crises" team. Pardon the pun, but I think you all have just shot yourselves in the foot.

Victor: White Hall Farms.