"It has becoming increasingly clear that the Washington Redskins won’t make the playoffs this season. It could become official as soon as this weekend.

The Redskins would be eliminated from contention in the NFC East if they lose Sunday night to the New York Giants and either the Dallas Cowboys or Philadelphia Eagles win this week."

From the Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2013/11/27/redskins-could-be-officially-eliminated-from-playoff-contention-this-weekend/

But, what if they win? Then hope remains alive - for now.

A Redskins victory and Eagles loss would produce the best statistical odds of an unlikely playoff appearance.

But, as PlayoffStatus notes, even winning out would produce - at best - around a 1% chance of a post-season appearance:

http://www.playoffstatus.com/nfl/redskinswhatif.html

All is not lost, though, Redskins nation! There are still free Papa John's toppings to play for, and after last weekend, it can't get any worse:

So you're saying there's a chance?

I apologize and take back what I say if this was an assignment at a special education school.

Any moron that writes that first sentence should immediately be legally banned from discussing sports, just like everyone should have immediately stopped reading something that starts with "its increasingly clear". No its not increasingly clear, its been perfectly clear for a month or more to anyone witha brain.

This is why everyone hates skins fans. Theyre the Gerry of sports. Everyone in the country knows they blow, yet were getting articles about playoff elimination for a team thats 3-8 overall and 0-3 sitting dead last in their division. Absolutely no concept of reality.

The Redskins can't get the team to consistently work together. I hate to say it but that's the coaches fault.

Time for a new coach.

Chances even with a W tonight are very, very slim. Tickets are going form as low as $20, I almost ended up going... but grandpas tired and not up to all that travelling or disappointment.

Rockhound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chances even with a W tonight are very, very slim.
> Tickets are going form as low as $20, I almost
> ended up going... but grandpas tired and not up to
> all that travelling or disappointment.


Hell, they'd have to pay me to sit in one of their seats, they are that bad.

Tough One Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rockhound Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> Hell, they'd have to pay me to sit in one of their
> seats, they are that bad.


You would have jerked off in the center of town to get tickets when RG3 ran out on opening day waving the Redskins flag...

Typical NVA Drone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You would have jerked off in the center of town to
> get tickets when RG3 ran out on opening day waving
> the Redskins flag...

and by halftime people were heading to the exits......

Typical NVA Drone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tough One Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Rockhound Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> > Hell, they'd have to pay me to sit in one of
> their
> > seats, they are that bad.
>
>
> You would have jerked off in the center of town to
> get tickets when RG3 ran out on opening day waving
> the Redskins flag...


Nah, I paid to go see him. I've been skeptical of RG3 but yeah we were all hopeful. So what?

I read playoffs in this thread somewhere.

I'm going to renew my season tickets and urge all my friends to do the same because this is just a rebuilding year and I'm sure they will break out very soon under the dynamic leadership of Snyder, Shanahan and Griffin. Superbowl?

If there was something fundamentally wrong with the team I would have heard about it in the news by now.

Hail to the Redskins!!!

Rockhound Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Nah, I paid to go see him. I've been skeptical of
> RG3 but yeah we were all hopeful. So what?


Stand by the team. Wear a bag over your head to the game...don't forget to pay $9.50 for a beer after paying $40 to park. I need to eat..

Shanahan better not bench me if we're losing. If he puts that dope Cousins in I'm going straight to Mr. Snyder after the game.

RG Me Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shanahan better not bench me if we're losing. If
> he puts that dope Cousins in I'm going straight to
> Mr. Snyder after the game.


Unlike your football season, he will give you a happy ending.

i thought it was clear after the first game...

The college football yesterday was better than the games the Redskins have played..Yet they make millions....What a fucking joke.

IT'S OFFICIAL FOLKS.

We're done!

3-9, 2014 here we come Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IT'S OFFICIAL FOLKS.
>
> We're done!

Good. Fuck this team. I'm tired of this shitty ass franchise.

But did you see all the idiots still going to the games stuffing Snyder's pockets with their cash?????

Washington fans are just as big of losers as the team. If these fans had any guts they would show up with bags on their heads like the Saints fans did once.

Tee hee hee :-)


Redskins fans are all dopes

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But did you see all the idiots still going to the
> games stuffing Snyder's pockets with their
> cash?????

Sounded like a home game for the Giants on tv

No wonder the Indians dont want their race associated with these losers.

It's better this way. Let me let you very tired and worn Redskins fans on to something. They weren't making it to the playoffs. So its better this way. Deal with it now rather than carry a false sense of hope which would only intensify your disappointment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2013 04:17AM by Gerrymanderer2.

Mistaken first down hurts Redskins
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10066755/washington-redskins-confused-officiating-error-final-drive

LANDOVER, Md. -- The Washington Redskins thought they had a first down, so, too did the chain gang. One group did not think it was a first down and, ultimately, they were the group that mattered: the officials.

And that led to controversy at the end of the Redskins' 24-17 loss to the New York Giants on Sunday night.

It started with a second-and-5 completion to receiver Pierre Garcon to the Redskins' 45-yard line with one minute, 37 seconds remaining. The officials marked him short of the first down, but the chains on the Redskins' sideline moved as if Garcon had been awarded a first down.

There was no doubt in the Redskins' minds that they had a first down. There was no doubt for referee Jeff Triplette that it was third down.

"We signaled third down on the field," Triplette told pool reporter Zac Boyer of the Washington Times. "The stakes were moved incorrectly. After that play, we said it was still third down. We had signaled third down prior to the play starting. The chains just got moved incorrectly."

The players saw the chains and thought Garcon had made a first down.

"The chains moved right away and it was first down," Redskins guard Kory Lichtensteiger said. "Next thing I know it's not. ... We thought it was first and 10 so we ran the play. Next thing we know it's fourth and 1 all of a sudden. I don't know how they can take it back. I feel if it's marked, you have to go with it. That changes everything for our offense."

Redskins coach Mike Shanahan said he had asked for a measurement following Garcon's catch. However, Shanahan said an official told him it wasn't necessary.

"He said, 'You don't have to, it's a first down,' " Shanahan said. "I saw it as a first down on the other side and he signaled to move the chains on our side. I asked him if it was fourth down. He said he already told me it was a first down. ... Then, after I saw it was fourth down I asked him, 'You already told me it was first down.' That was quite disappointing."

Shanahan said the unnamed official didn't respond to that. His claim that he was told it was a first down was relayed to Triplette.

"I can't respond to that," Triplette said. "I don't know what happened. I just know that we had signaled third down."

The Giants players didn't think Garcon had gained a first down.

"When I saw the marker said first down, I was trying to signal to Coach [Tom] Coughlin, like, 'You might want to challenge that.' Because it was not a first down," Giants defensive end Justin Tuck said.

"He was short. Lucky for us it worked out, but it wasn't a first down. Everybody on the field could see that."

Giants linebacker Jon Beason said, "What it looked like, they marked it first down on one side and not on the other side, so they thought they had a first down even though they didn't. He [Mike Shanahan] was UP-SET, and he's over there yelling, and I was talking to him saying, 'But you didn't get it.' I don't think he could hear me, but I was pointing. It wasn't a first down. Everybody makes mistakes, I guess."

On third and 1, the Redskins called a downfield pass to tight end Fred Davis, who dropped a pass at the New York 30.

"Coach [Kyle Shanahan] called that play thinking it was first down," Redskins quarterback Robert Griffin III said. "Then we come back and we think it's second and 10 and they're yelling out its fourth down. No explanation, no measurement -- didn't stop the clock to allow the chains to move back."

On fourth down, Garcon caught a short hitch that would have resulted in a first down, but safety Will Hill stripped him of the ball to end the game. Griffin said offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan had called a play thinking it was second and 10. After they learned it was fourth down, Shanahan had to change his play call.

"Anytime you have a sequence of plays you're not going to call a quick hitch on fourth and inches," Mike Shanahan said. "So obviously it's going to affect our play call."

Griffin said it did not cause confusion in the huddle.

"We try to stay in the moment," Griffin said. "If the refs call it fourth down we try to make sure we're treating that as a fourth down play. This is it. We have to convert this to continue to go on, tried to stay in the moment and then after the fact think about how everything transpired. We did a good job of that and got a good play. It just didn't turn on."

Redskins coach Mike Shanahan was heated on the sidelines as officials mistakenly led his team to believe they had earned a first down on Washington's final drive.
Attachments:

...
Attachments:

All the Skinz fans were giddy with excitement when they went up 14-0 yesterday. LOL.

The NFL is a bunch a overpaid ghetto babies led by rich, white, overachieving type-A alpha males, coaches and owners alike. Barely any of them are even from the areas they play for. At least in college ball, you had classes with some of them in your Freshman year. What does the general public have in common with these people to cause such worship and idolization?

If Davis makes the catch as he is extremely well paid to do on 3rd or 1st or whatever the fuck down it was, you wouldn't be crying about it.
Advice to Redskins fans: stop thinking that you're going to win the Super Bowl every year. Danny has you in a perpetual rebuilding cycle and so long as it makes him richer, what does he care? Move on or get realistic about your team.

Haha - the little Napoleon tastes the shit-flavor of defeat yet again!

Guess no pizza deals this year!

Triplette Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Davis makes the catch as he is extremely well
> paid to do on 3rd or 1st or whatever the fuck down
> it was, you wouldn't be crying about it.

Or Garcon doesnt get stripped. The refs were atrocious in that situation but it didnt decide the game.

All that's left is for the players to continue to collect their paychecks. I imagine these last 4 games are going to painful to watch.

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All that's left is for the players to continue to
> collect their paychecks. I imagine these last 4
> games are going to painful to watch.

It's only painful for the midget Danny Boy Snyder and moronic, dumbass people who actually feel some contrived connection to this very profitable corporation run by the customer-gouging midget. For everyone else, it will be pleasurable to watch them crash and burn.

Elmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Redskins can't get the team to consistently
> work together. I hate to say it but that's the
> coaches fault.
>
> Time for a new coach.


First part of your argument may be right. However, the upheaval caused by bringing in a new coaching staff does not fix that problem...as a matter of fact, it will in most instances exacerbate it, especially if there has been a virtual revolving door of coaches.

Anybody that has played team sports would recognize this, and also recognize that teams do in fact have ups and downs from year to year.

Remember the dynasties of the 70's and 80's?

Don Shula-Dolphins
Tom Landry-Cowboys
Chuck Noll-Steelers
Vikings-Bud Grant
Bills-Marv Levy
Raiders-John Madden
Skins-Joe Gibbs

All of these teams had some sucky years sprinkled in.

The idea that you change out a coach after a year or two of sucky years does not allow for anything of permanence to be built...and causes disarray.

If you didn't think the guy was right long-term when you hired him, you shouldn't have hired him in the first place. Sure, if the team goes down for 3-4 years, or the coach does something real stupid, can him. But not 1 year after making the playoffs. 1 frickin year.

So many NFL (and college teams for that matter) have created a revolving door and it will perpetuate sucking.

I think it is the vogue thing these days, that is, how quickly you can a coach when things go sideways for a year or two.

That didn't build dynasty back in the day, though.

not sooo fast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Sure, if the team goes down
> for 3-4 years, or the coach does something real
> stupid, can him. But not 1 year after making the
> playoffs. 1 frickin year.

4 crappy years 1 fluke year.

4 years 24-36. What about that is impressive or deserving of keeping a job?

These are all his guys now, theres no more blaming the guy before. The roster is just bad. The NFL adjusted to the option and the only team that hasnt adjusted as well is the Skins.

Liberal Logic 29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not sooo fast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Sure, if the team goes down
> > for 3-4 years, or the coach does something real
> > stupid, can him. But not 1 year after making
> the
> > playoffs. 1 frickin year.
>
> 4 crappy years 1 fluke year.
>
> 4 years 24-36. What about that is impressive or
> deserving of keeping a job?
>
> These are all his guys now, theres no more blaming
> the guy before. The roster is just bad. The NFL
> adjusted to the option and the only team that
> hasnt adjusted as well is the Skins.


Well, dear boy, back to a couple of my historical examples, Chuck Noll was 23 and 33 in his first 4 years, including a 1 win first season, and Marv Levy had a career overall record of .615, including 5 years in Kansas City at .425 where his best year was 9 and 7. Then, his first 2 years in Buffalo he was 2 and 5 and 7 and 8. Don't know why he had "partial" seasons then.

I would say both of their teams had quite a run in the 70's and 80's, respectively.

Wouldn't you?

the record shows... Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Well, dear boy, back to a couple of my historical
> examples, Chuck Noll was 23 and 33 in his first 4
> years, including a 1 win first season, and Marv
> Levy had a career overall record of .615,
> including 5 years in Kansas City at .425 where his
> best year was 9 and 7. Then, his first 2 years in
> Buffalo he was 2 and 5 and 7 and 8. Don't know why
> he had "partial" seasons then.
>
> I would say both of their teams had quite a run in
> the 70's and 80's, respectively.
>
> Wouldn't you?

Both of which were their first coaching jobs. Not after they had a long track record of mediocrity aside from the start of their career where a team was inherited with a HOF QB in place.

Hes not either of those guys, the game has passed him by and just like in Denver the D has gone to crap and hed rather lose his way than adjust and win.

Now hes going to be sending a top 5 and maybe first overall pick to the Rams.

Also neither of those coaches you named got what was supposed to be their franchise qb hurt at the age of 23 when he clearly shouldnt be playing in an effort to win one last time.

Hes not a hall of fame coach. In his 20 years hes been to the playoffs 8 times, 3 of which came from a team he inherited.

FENNO: After another loss, Redskins a franchise in free-fall
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/2/fenno-after-another-loss-redskins-franchise-free-f/

A deep voice carried through the locker room’s gloom.

“It hurts. It sucks,” Brian Orakpo said. “What else can I say?”

Used training tape, bits of turf and an orphaned white sock decorated the faded gold carpet under his feet.

Late Sunday night, the locker room at FedEx Field emptied as fast as Redskins could shower and dress after the 24-17 loss to the Giants. No one said much. A couple blamed referees. Players offered the requisite sound bytes about frustration. No anger. No lashing out. Just resigned looks as they hefted backpacks and tugged suitcases through the debris of a lost season.

“There are no positives,” Orakpo said.

No answers, either.

The last-minute controversy over an errant down marker didn’t matter in a game that mathematically eliminated the Redskins from playoff contention. That was another excuse, an easy target to deflect attention from the three and a half hour advertisement on national television for a franchise that discovers new ways to lose each week.

By the dumpster-diving standards of these Redskins, nothing particularly unusual happened Sunday.

They blew a two-touchdown lead in a second half that could charitably be described as cornea-searing and, afterward, some players couldn’t do better than intimate that referees have been against them all season.

Redskins football. Live it.

We’ve seen this game week after week this season. That’s why you could pick up a ticket on the secondary market for $7 before Sunday’s kickoff, why the sprawling parking lots resembled those at a preseason game. Sure, the Redskins announced their 383rd consecutive sellout. But empty seats, thousands of them, gashed the stadium.

That’s the sorry state of a franchise in free-fall.

In the days before the Sunday’s game, players and coaches insisted the team’s myriad problems were fixable. The cliche-ridden boasts about the team being better than their record, about showing character, about fighting out of the hole they’ve dug disappeared under a flurry of yellow flags and dropped passes.

The shoddy discipline that’s dogged the Redskins all season returned as they had opportunity to put away the Giants and begin the long process of making this season something less than a unadulterated debacle.

Instead, veteran Santana Moss drew a flag for holding in the third quarter, told an official in no uncertain terms he didn’t care for the call. That earned a 15-yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct that Moss didn’t much care for after the game.

Instead, the special teams reverted to their NFL-worst form when long snapper Kyle Nelson four-hopped the ball to punter Sav Rocca, whose punt fluttered 18 yards after being tipped. Nelson, for good measure, got a flag for holding on the play.

Instead, Pierre Garcon, another veteran, found an outlet for his frustration after an incomplete, uncatchable pass from Robert Griffin III in the end zone on third down. Garcon kicked the football out of bounds. A 5-yard penalty for delaying the game followed.

Instead, defensive end Justin Tuck threw Griffin around like a dog introducing himself to new a chew toy. Four of the Giants’ five sacks came from Tuck. The pass-protection, another season-long problem without answers, led to Griffin being knocked down 13 times. During one four-quarter sequence, Griffin took hits on five of eight plays.

Instead, Redskins receivers dropped four passes in their final two series.

The gaffes ended when Garcon actually hung onto Griffin’s fourth-down pass, only to have Will Allen wrest the ball from his hands to end the game.

Even the traditional blow-up helmet used during pregame ceremonies wouldn’t inflate on the field that, once again, resembled a Slip N’ Slide.

Is this progress? Is this a fix?

These are games, corroded by fundamental mistakes and offering little hope for the future, that cost jobs.

Four meaningless games remain. Soon, answers will emerge. Do the Redskins extend Mike Shanahan’s regime that hasn’t shaken off the franchise’s rich tradition of mediocrity in almost four seasons? Or do they commit to rebuilding with another coach, another personnel czar and further draw out the unending search for a cohesive on-field product?

There isn’t a painless, pretty answer.

But one thing was clear Sunday night: This isn’t working.

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/2/fenno-after-another-loss-redskins-franchise-free-f/?page=2#ixzz2mLIC9xfV
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Enjoy It Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's only painful for the midget Danny Boy Snyder
> and moronic, dumbass people who actually feel some
> contrived connection to this very profitable
> corporation run by the customer-gouging midget.
> For everyone else, it will be pleasurable to watch
> them crash and burn.

Best post ever.

Liberal Logic 29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the record shows... Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Well, dear boy, back to a couple of my
> historical
> > examples, Chuck Noll was 23 and 33 in his first
> 4
> > years, including a 1 win first season, and Marv
> > Levy had a career overall record of .615,
> > including 5 years in Kansas City at .425 where
> his
> > best year was 9 and 7. Then, his first 2 years
> in
> > Buffalo he was 2 and 5 and 7 and 8. Don't know
> why
> > he had "partial" seasons then.
> >
> > I would say both of their teams had quite a run
> in
> > the 70's and 80's, respectively.
> >
> > Wouldn't you?
>
> Both of which were their first coaching jobs. Not
> after they had a long track record of mediocrity
> aside from the start of their career where a team
> was inherited with a HOF QB in place.
>
> Hes not either of those guys, the game has passed
> him by and just like in Denver the D has gone to
> crap and hed rather lose his way than adjust and
> win.
>
> Now hes going to be sending a top 5 and maybe
> first overall pick to the Rams.
>
> Also neither of those coaches you named got what
> was supposed to be their franchise qb hurt at the
> age of 23 when he clearly shouldnt be playing in
> an effort to win one last time.
>
> Hes not a hall of fame coach. In his 20 years hes
> been to the playoffs 8 times, 3 of which came from
> a team he inherited.


So why'd they hire him in the first place? Seemed like a good hire at the time, didn't it? (I'm sure you'll say you were against it back then)

And to your point that these were the first coaching jobs of these guys...so, it is better to be a loser with no track record at all?

And actually, Marv Levy's time with the Bills was his second HC job...as pointed out above, he was with the KC Chiefs for 5 pretty miserable years before the Bills, where his first 2 years were pretty lousy.

Back to my historic examples...Terry Bradshaw was an RGIII of his day...at least early on.

Back to the original point...having a revolving door of coaches hasn't worked too well, has it?

Why continue that? Why not let a guy come in and build a dynasty over 5 or 6 years, and not can him the first time the wheels wobble?

You ever play a team sport? If so, you might understand the fabric of a team takes time to put together. Wholesale changes every 3 or 4 years doesn't allow for that.

no sirree Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So why'd they hire him in the first place? Seemed
> like a good hire at the time, didn't it? (I'm sure
> you'll say you were against it back then)

I have no clue why they hired him and I said hed suck from the start. As some who used to live in CA and a Chargers fan I was sad to see him leave Denver.

> And to your point that these were the first
> coaching jobs of these guys...so, it is better to
> be a loser with no track record at all?

Yes because at least then it can be a learning curve. Everyone expects new coaches to struggle at first, if youve done it for 16 years youre supposed to come in and clean the team up not make it worse.

Plus its how you lose. Every aspect of the team has gotten worse. RG3 is becoming a really shitty passer in the process too.

To save time the NFL should also just start the Skins with 2 time outs and one challenge, Shanny is good for a moronic challenge every game he loses.

> And actually, Marv Levy's time with the Bills was
> his second HC job...as pointed out above, he was
> with the KC Chiefs for 5 pretty miserable years
> before the Bills, where his first 2 years were
> pretty lousy.

No his first to years really werent lousy. He went from 2-5 to 7-8 which is a big improvement to 12-4 to 9-7 to powerhouse. Shanny isnt in his 2nd year hes in his fourth and 3 years have been awful, just awful.

> Back to my historic examples...Terry Bradshaw was
> an RGIII of his day...at least early on.

Youre point?

> Back to the original point...having a revolving
> door of coaches hasn't worked too well, has it?

The others did better than Shanny so they cant do anyworse.

> Why continue that? Why not let a guy come in and
> build a dynasty over 5 or 6 years, and not can him
> the first time the wheels wobble?

Because its not the right guy. The game has passed him by and youre spending absurd amounts of money for a guy who wastes time outs, wastes challenges, is so arrogant he thinks he can win with Grossman and Beck, runs players out of town out of spite instead of trading them while they have value, and doesnt make adjustments.

If they want to keep doing that by all means go ahead, the melt downs are interesting at least. If they want a chance at success though time to turn the page.

> You ever play a team sport? If so, you might
> understand the fabric of a team takes time to put
> together. Wholesale changes every 3 or 4 years
> doesn't allow for that.

Having the wrong coach where your team is getting worse every year doesnt do anything. By your logic anyone could coach and should just have the job for life not to shake things up.

Again its not necessarily that you lose, its how you lose for judging whether a coach should stay or not. They arent having close hard fought well played losses, theyre just getting embarrassed and every now and then make the game close when the other team is waiting for the clock to run out.

The guy hasnt done anything to deserve to keep his job. Hes not worth the money and hes not filling the roster with NFL players, he thinks he can make anyone a stud. So they have some bright spots and probably 10 starters who should be role players.

The stadium wasnt even half full. I heard on 106.7 tickets could be found for $5.95 that retailed for over a hundred.

Shanahan had the look of a guy who is about to go to an IRS audit. He is history. Another overpaid hack who only the Skins would sign.

Papa John should give free toppings to anyone who admits to going to the game.

Liberal Logic 29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> no sirree Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > So why'd they hire him in the first place?
> Seemed
> > like a good hire at the time, didn't it? (I'm
> sure
> > you'll say you were against it back then)
>
> I have no clue why they hired him and I said hed
> suck from the start. As some who used to live in
> CA and a Chargers fan I was sad to see him leave
> Denver.
>
> > And to your point that these were the first
> > coaching jobs of these guys...so, it is better
> to
> > be a loser with no track record at all?
>
> Yes because at least then it can be a learning
> curve. Everyone expects new coaches to struggle
> at first, if youve done it for 16 years youre
> supposed to come in and clean the team up not make
> it worse.
>
> Plus its how you lose. Every aspect of the team
> has gotten worse. RG3 is becoming a really shitty
> passer in the process too.
>
> To save time the NFL should also just start the
> Skins with 2 time outs and one challenge, Shanny
> is good for a moronic challenge every game he
> loses.
>
> > And actually, Marv Levy's time with the Bills
> was
> > his second HC job...as pointed out above, he
> was
> > with the KC Chiefs for 5 pretty miserable years
> > before the Bills, where his first 2 years were
> > pretty lousy.
>
> No his first to years really werent lousy. He
> went from 2-5 to 7-8 which is a big improvement to
> 12-4 to 9-7 to powerhouse. Shanny isnt in his 2nd
> year hes in his fourth and 3 years have been
> awful, just awful.
>
> > Back to my historic examples...Terry Bradshaw
> was
> > an RGIII of his day...at least early on.
>
> Youre point?
>
> > Back to the original point...having a revolving
> > door of coaches hasn't worked too well, has it?
>
> The others did better than Shanny so they cant do
> anyworse.
>
> > Why continue that? Why not let a guy come in
> and
> > build a dynasty over 5 or 6 years, and not can
> him
> > the first time the wheels wobble?
>
> Because its not the right guy. The game has
> passed him by and youre spending absurd amounts of
> money for a guy who wastes time outs, wastes
> challenges, is so arrogant he thinks he can win
> with Grossman and Beck, runs players out of town
> out of spite instead of trading them while they
> have value, and doesnt make adjustments.
>
> If they want to keep doing that by all means go
> ahead, the melt downs are interesting at least.
> If they want a chance at success though time to
> turn the page.
>
> > You ever play a team sport? If so, you might
> > understand the fabric of a team takes time to
> put
> > together. Wholesale changes every 3 or 4 years
> > doesn't allow for that.
>
> Having the wrong coach where your team is getting
> worse every year doesnt do anything. By your
> logic anyone could coach and should just have the
> job for life not to shake things up.
>
> Again its not necessarily that you lose, its how
> you lose for judging whether a coach should stay
> or not. They arent having close hard fought well
> played losses, theyre just getting embarrassed and
> every now and then make the game close when the
> other team is waiting for the clock to run out.
>
> The guy hasnt done anything to deserve to keep his
> job. Hes not worth the money and hes not filling
> the roster with NFL players, he thinks he can make
> anyone a stud. So they have some bright spots and
> probably 10 starters who should be role players.


"By your logic anyone could coach".

How the f do you come up with something so f'in off track?

And who said anything about what he deserves or doesn't deserve (except for you)? Who gives 2 sh**s about what he might or might not deserve?

Again, the point is that shaking a team up AGAIN via wholesale coaching change may not bring the positive change that proponents of such a measure might hope for, to the contrary, it may take the team the opposite way, as it has seemed to do in the past, oh, say, about 6 times in the past 10 years.

not even close Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> "By your logic anyone could coach".
>
> How the f do you come up with something so f'in
> off track?
>
> And who said anything about what he deserves or
> doesn't deserve (except for you)? Who gives 2
> sh**s about what he might or might not deserve?
>
> Again, the point is that shaking a team up AGAIN
> via wholesale coaching change may not bring the
> positive change that proponents of such a measure
> might hope for, to the contrary, it may take the
> team the opposite way, as it has seemed to do in
> the past, oh, say, about 6 times in the past 10
> years.

Youre entire argument is change is bad without allowing for the possibility that he sucks as a coach and isnt the right coach. Therefore anyone who gets the job should have it forever because change is bad.

You really cant go any lower than being a perennial top 5-10 pick. Theres only up from here which is the part your missing. They are that bad.

Oh know they might win 2 games net year instead of 3. The longer he stays the longer theyll be the laughing stock of the league.

The most embarrassing part about all of this is the team has been healthy. Other teams have lost a lot and are still doing better.

Liberal Logic 29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not even close Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > "By your logic anyone could coach".
> >
> > How the f do you come up with something so f'in
> > off track?
> >
> > And who said anything about what he deserves or
> > doesn't deserve (except for you)? Who gives 2
> > sh**s about what he might or might not deserve?
> >
> > Again, the point is that shaking a team up
> AGAIN
> > via wholesale coaching change may not bring the
> > positive change that proponents of such a
> measure
> > might hope for, to the contrary, it may take
> the
> > team the opposite way, as it has seemed to do
> in
> > the past, oh, say, about 6 times in the past 10
> > years.
>
> Youre entire argument is change is bad without
> allowing for the possibility that he sucks as a
> coach and isnt the right coach. Therefore anyone
> who gets the job should have it forever because
> change is bad.
>
> You really cant go any lower than being a
> perennial top 5-10 pick. Theres only up from here
> which is the part your missing. They are that
> bad.
>
> Oh know they might win 2 games net year instead of
> 3. The longer he stays the longer theyll be the
> laughing stock of the league.
>
> The most embarrassing part about all of this is
> the team has been healthy. Other teams have lost
> a lot and are still doing better.


Doesn't anyone EVER think that after 6 coaching changes in 10 years, and we are not really better, or closer to a nice 8-10 year dynasty run, that ANOTHER wholesale coaching change just may not be the answer?

Man, we've had all types...offensive genius...disciplinarian...young gun...old legend...college coaching legend...the common thread through all of this is the upheaval in systems and dissarray in the locker room EVERY 2-3 years as a new coach and system comes in...BULLSH**!!!!!

Sure, there is the possibility that he is a bad coach...just as there was the possibility that Chuck Noll was bad when he went 1-13 his first year and 23-33 after that...you better believe some dumb things are done by a coaching staff in a 1-13 season.

The common thread to all the redskin failures is Dan Snyder.

To compare coaches like Chuck Noll under the Rooney's management style to the myriad of coaches under Snyder's meddling is like comparing Warren Buffet to Bernie Madoff.

see the big picture Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Doesn't anyone EVER think that after 6 coaching
> changes in 10 years, and we are not really better,
> or closer to a nice 8-10 year dynasty run, that
> ANOTHER wholesale coaching change just may not be
> the answer?
>
> Man, we've had all types...offensive
> genius...disciplinarian...young gun...old
> legend...college coaching legend...the common
> thread through all of this is the upheaval in
> systems and dissarray in the locker room EVERY 2-3
> years as a new coach and system comes
> in...BULLSH**!!!!!
>
> Sure, there is the possibility that he is a bad
> coach...just as there was the possibility that
> Chuck Noll was bad when he went 1-13 his first
> year and 23-33 after that...you better believe
> some dumb things are done by a coaching staff in a
> 1-13 season.

Seriously how many times does this have to be said, this ISNT Shannys first season. Its his 20th and 4th with the skins. Stop comparing him to first year coaches.

They will NOT have a dynasty under Shanny, he couldnt even put one together in Denver with a sick team already in place. He then proceeded to run Jake the Snake out of football and ultimately settle with cry baby Cutler. Every now and then theyd mix in a good year and most of the time they were a middle of the pack team.

Again you wont even account for the fact he sucks as a coach. Change is GOOD when you hired the wrong guy who the game has been passed by.

Aside from being against change please list his accomplishments with the team that youre so impressed by.

Ill start with some:

3 wins this year and dead last in meaningful categories.

6 wins his first year and 5 the next.

Traded away draft picks for McNabb then tried to mold a guy whose been in the league for over a decade into something hes not.

Got RG3 hurt who now sucks.

Thought he could win with Grossman/Beck

I can keep going by you get the point. Aside from I dont like change why should he be kept. What has been so impressive about his run besides a fluke season before people adjusted to the option where the Skins are currently the only one still running it who havent made adjustments themselves.

Common Thread Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The common thread to all the redskin failures is
> Dan Snyder.
>
> To compare coaches like Chuck Noll under the
> Rooney's management style to the myriad of coaches
> under Snyder's meddling is like comparing Warren
> Buffet to Bernie Madoff.


I might be persuaded that way.

What are you gonna do? Fire Snyder?

Perhaps a symptom of that meddling style is to bring in new coaches every 3 to 4 years?

It is a football TEAM, not a sales organization. The former takes time to build. The latter, you can get 2 or 3 redhot salespeople and change things quick.

Not the same.

The Redskins problems go way deeper than the Shanarat era.

They have made it into the playoffs 4 times in the last 22 seasons. That's right..... 4 times!

I dont have time to do the reasearch but I would have to imagine that is the worst record in the NFL?

Liberal Logic 29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> see the big picture Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Doesn't anyone EVER think that after 6 coaching
> > changes in 10 years, and we are not really
> better,
> > or closer to a nice 8-10 year dynasty run, that
> > ANOTHER wholesale coaching change just may not
> be
> > the answer?
> >
> > Man, we've had all types...offensive
> > genius...disciplinarian...young gun...old
> > legend...college coaching legend...the common
> > thread through all of this is the upheaval in
> > systems and dissarray in the locker room EVERY
> 2-3
> > years as a new coach and system comes
> > in...BULLSH**!!!!!
> >
> > Sure, there is the possibility that he is a bad
> > coach...just as there was the possibility that
> > Chuck Noll was bad when he went 1-13 his first
> > year and 23-33 after that...you better believe
> > some dumb things are done by a coaching staff in
> a
> > 1-13 season.
>
> Seriously how many times does this have to be
> said, this ISNT Shannys first season. Its his
> 20th and 4th with the skins. Stop comparing him
> to first year coaches.
>
> They will NOT have a dynasty under Shanny, he
> couldnt even put one together in Denver with a
> sick team already in place. He then proceeded to
> run Jake the Snake out of football and ultimately
> settle with cry baby Cutler. Every now and then
> theyd mix in a good year and most of the time they
> were a middle of the pack team.
>
> Again you wont even account for the fact he sucks
> as a coach. Change is GOOD when you hired the
> wrong guy who the game has been passed by.
>
> Aside from being against change please list his
> accomplishments with the team that youre so
> impressed by.
>
> Ill start with some:
>
> 3 wins this year and dead last in meaningful
> categories.
>
> 6 wins his first year and 5 the next.
>
> Traded away draft picks for McNabb then tried to
> mold a guy whose been in the league for over a
> decade into something hes not.
>
> Got RG3 hurt who now sucks.
>
> Thought he could win with Grossman/Beck
>
> I can keep going by you get the point. Aside from
> I dont like change why should he be kept. What
> has been so impressive about his run besides a
> fluke season before people adjusted to the option
> where the Skins are currently the only one still
> running it who havent made adjustments themselves.


"Change is good when you've hired the wrong guy"...so, all previous coaches have been wrong? 6 in 10 years?

Even the one that was inherited was the wrong guy?

Wow. Sooner or later, you'd think the odds would even out, and you'd hire the right guy, even if by accident.

It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

.
Attachments:

For you Shanarat fans, what would give you any hope or confidence that things will be any better with him at the top for one more year?

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For you Shanarat fans, what would give you any
> hope or confidence that things will be any better
> with him at the top for one more year?


Continuity.

Same idea as with Turnerat, Robiskieat, Schottenheimerat, Gibbsat, Zornat, Spurrierat.

Hard to believe ALL of those guys were failures, as well.

Maybe just not given enough time?

About 2 years each on average.

Hmmmm....I think I see a trend.

The midget has really Obama'd the Redskins. Total fuck up and failure. Incompetence along with no accountability. Just lots of finger-pointing and blaming others.

Common Thread Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The common thread to all the redskin failures is
> Dan Snyder.

While Snyder is a horses ass they have one other glaring problem. That is paying a handful of players exorbitant salaries while the rest get a journeyman salary. The ones playing are giving 100% at a reduced salary while the "stars" pull down the lions share of the salaries and give at best 75%, Prime example is Fat Albert. Huge salary for him dropped on the Skins gratis of Tennessee who were only too glad to get rid of him. Plenty of other examples but I think he makes my point.

3-9? Hahahahaha! What a freaking joke. That's 1962 Mets territory!

Morant. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Plenty
> of other examples but I think he makes my point.

Here I'll help you

Dieon Sanders- 7 years $56 mil
Adam Archuleta- 6 years $30 mil
Jeremiah Trotter- 7 years $36 mil
Jeff George- 4 years $18.25 mil (backup QB)
Bruce Smith- 5 years $23 mil (after 19 years in NFL)
Brandon Lloyd- 6 years $31 mil ($12 mil guaranteed)

And of course the motherlode!!!!

Albert Haynesworth- 7 years $100 mil (he ended up getting about $36 mil for playing in 11 games)

Nice work Danny!

6 for 6 wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> "Change is good when you've hired the wrong
> guy"...so, all previous coaches have been wrong? 6
> in 10 years?
>
> Even the one that was inherited was the wrong
> guy?
>
> Wow. Sooner or later, you'd think the odds would
> even out, and you'd hire the right guy, even if by
> accident.

No wonder you probably think theyre going to win the superbowl every year, focusing on the current facts is difficult to you.

Can you tell me what any past coach has to do with Shanny?

Is this the part where you blame Norv for their pathetic play the last two weeks?

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Redskins problems go way deeper than the
> Shanarat era.
>
> They have made it into the playoffs 4 times in the
> last 22 seasons. That's right..... 4 times!
>
> I dont have time to do the reasearch but I would
> have to imagine that is the worst record in the
> NFL?

No one has time to reaserch. Maybe reassess. But to imagine is wishful thinking.

Liberal Logic 29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 6 for 6 wrong Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > "Change is good when you've hired the wrong
> > guy"...so, all previous coaches have been wrong?
> 6
> > in 10 years?
> >
> > Even the one that was inherited was the wrong
> > guy?
> >
> > Wow. Sooner or later, you'd think the odds
> would
> > even out, and you'd hire the right guy, even if
> by
> > accident.
>
> No wonder you probably think theyre going to win
> the superbowl every year, focusing on the current
> facts is difficult to you.
>
> Can you tell me what any past coach has to do with
> Shanny?
>
> Is this the part where you blame Norv for their
> pathetic play the last two weeks?


Isn't it curious that coaches that leave Snyder-Orbit suddenly improve? Norv and Shottenheimer (of course he in his one season actually had an 8-8 record) - suddenly became competitive. Not great, but consistent playoff competitors.

It's almost like there's some sort of unifying force in Landover that turns people, money, and skills to shit. I can't quite put my finger on it..

Liberal Logic 29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 6 for 6 wrong Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > "Change is good when you've hired the wrong
> > guy"...so, all previous coaches have been wrong?
> 6
> > in 10 years?
> >
> > Even the one that was inherited was the wrong
> > guy?
> >
> > Wow. Sooner or later, you'd think the odds
> would
> > even out, and you'd hire the right guy, even if
> by
> > accident.
>
> No wonder you probably think theyre going to win
> the superbowl every year, focusing on the current
> facts is difficult to you.
>
> Can you tell me what any past coach has to do with
> Shanny?
>
> Is this the part where you blame Norv for their
> pathetic play the last two weeks?


No, no and no.

Apparently you lack in a vital skill known as "pattern recognition".

And, there is some logic involved, which with your name, I'm surprised you don't get.

To make it easy for you, I've illustrated a pattern of a revolving doors for coaching staffs in Washington.

To establish a pattern like this, you must have a past history.

Hope that helps.

I still think Shanahan and some of his staff need to go. Get a coach in there that can pull that team together.

I know there's something.. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liberal Logic 29 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 6 for 6 wrong Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > >
> > > "Change is good when you've hired the wrong
> > > guy"...so, all previous coaches have been
> wrong?
> > 6
> > > in 10 years?
> > >
> > > Even the one that was inherited was the wrong
> > > guy?
> > >
> > > Wow. Sooner or later, you'd think the odds
> > would
> > > even out, and you'd hire the right guy, even
> if
> > by
> > > accident.
> >
> > No wonder you probably think theyre going to
> win
> > the superbowl every year, focusing on the
> current
> > facts is difficult to you.
> >
> > Can you tell me what any past coach has to do
> with
> > Shanny?
> >
> > Is this the part where you blame Norv for their
> > pathetic play the last two weeks?
>
>
> Isn't it curious that coaches that leave
> Snyder-Orbit suddenly improve? Norv and
> Shottenheimer (of course he in his one season
> actually had an 8-8 record) - suddenly became
> competitive. Not great, but consistent playoff
> competitors.
>
> It's almost like there's some sort of unifying
> force in Landover that turns people, money, and
> skills to shit. I can't quite put my finger on
> it..


Good point. Maybe if a coach was around long enough, he could say to all who want to meddle, "get the f out of my way, here is the program I am working to establish" and "hell no, don't spend all that money on that has been, waste of space, I'll need it for the 3-4-5 guys with mileage remaining I am trying to bring in".

I think as it stands now, each and everyone of them starts to realize they are on the hot seat the moment they arrive, and instead of trying to build long term, they are trying to win to save their job in the next year, while at the same time, planning their all too soon exit and not giving a f about how the team looks in 3-4 years.

Shanahan has the stink on him. He will not return next year. Its not the first time Snyder has paid someone not to play. He is used to it. Next years price of beer will be $12.00 a cup.

I've read that coaching has about 20%, at best, to do with winning or losing. Players play, coaches decide. In a tight game a coach's decision can make the difference between winning and losing, but when you are losing the way the Redskins are it's more about talent or lack thereof over coaching. No scheme can overcome lack of talent.

The problem that "The Danny" has created is that they've wasted so much money and draft picks they don't have the resources to bring in quality backups. I keep hearing announcers talk about "the next man up" because inuries affect every team. Well, if the next man up isn't able to compete then you're SOL.

Look at Green Bay, they have a Hall of Fame QB that gets injured and their back ups are guys that were out of the league and see what has happened.

Shanahan has proven he can win, maybe not in Washington though. And, like posted earlier, coachs that have left DC have gone on and been successful. As frustrating as Norv Turner was, I'd guess most Redskin fans would take his record at San Diego over what has transpried in DC the last couple of years.

How about Marvin Lewis, he has gradually lead the Bengals to relevancy. But, "The Danny" wouldn't consider him to replace Spurrier.

Seriously, this franchise can't overcome the idiocy at the top!

simpleton 29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> No, no and no.
>
> Apparently you lack in a vital skill known as
> "pattern recognition".
>
> And, there is some logic involved, which with your
> name, I'm surprised you don't get.
>
> To make it easy for you, I've illustrated a
> pattern of a revolving doors for coaching staffs
> in Washington.
>
> To establish a pattern like this, you must have a
> past history.
>
> Hope that helps.


TTheres really absolutely no logic involved in what ever noncoherent argument youre trying to make at this point. You just keep going on and on and on about how change is bad and thats it. So by your thought process whoever gets hired by a franchise should be in charge until they die because change is bad and you refuse to consider performance.

Somehow you think coaches that are long gone or havent been in the league for decades are relevant to the shit job shanny has done.

Roscoe P Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shanahan has the stink on him. He will not return
> next year. Its not the first time Snyder has paid
> someone not to play. He is used to it. Next years
> price of beer will be $12.00 a cup.

I agree. Im sure Snyder is already searching for the next guy to lure out of retirement (Gruden, Cowher come to mind) with piles of money. Danny is in to "instant gratification" so this debacle called the Redskins must be just about killing him!

Liberal Logic 29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> TTheres really absolutely no logic involved in
> what ever noncoherent argument youre trying to
> make at this point. You just keep going on and on
> and on about how change is bad and thats it. So
> by your thought process whoever gets hired by a
> franchise should be in charge until they die
> because change is bad and you refuse to consider
> performance.
>
> Somehow you think coaches that are long gone or
> havent been in the league for decades are relevant
> to the shit job shanny has done.


TTheres really absolutely no logic involved in what ever noncoherent argument youre trying to make at this point. You just keep going on and on about how change is good and thats it. So by your thought process whoever gets hired by a franchise should be in charge for no longer than four years because change is good and you refuse to consider performance.

Somehow you think coaches that coached in the past are irrelevent to understanding how great teams are built even though they coached dynasties in the 70's, 80's and 90's, and you cannot understand historical examples.

Liberal Logic, please go review the history of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

3 coaches since the merger (1969?). Knoll, Cowher, Tomlin.

How has that worked out?

The Redskins do not play as a team. Its a bunch of guys all headed in different directions with their own personal agenda. It will take a Vince Lombardi style coach to get these overpaid under performing clowns in line. Andy Reid could have done it and so could Parcells. Shanahan doesnt have the backbone for it.

Nobody will ever fix this mess with Snyder pulling the levers.

After 13 years, that fairly obvious.

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody will ever fix this mess with Snyder pulling
> the levers.
>
> After 13 years, that fairly obvious.


+1 ad infinitum

Lost horizon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Redskins do not play as a team. Its a bunch of
> guys all headed in different directions with their
> own personal agenda. It will take a Vince Lombardi
> style coach to get these overpaid under performing
> clowns in line. Andy Reid could have done it and
> so could Parcells. Shanahan doesnt have the
> backbone for it.

I might be available next year. I could whip this team in shape.

Stabitha Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Liberal Logic, please go review the history of the
> Pittsburgh Steelers.
>
> 3 coaches since the merger (1969?). Knoll, Cowher,
> Tomlin.
>
> How has that worked out?


This really isnt rocket science, they had good coaches not to mention great roids doctors in the 70s.

Yea you guys are all right now coach should ever be fired ever, they just need more time thats whats wrong, not that theyre a shitty coach, cant manage a clock, pick shitty players, or make stupid decisions.

I guess every coach should just be given life time contracts and if their team blows for a decade oh well they just need more time, who cares if theyre actually getting worse as time goes on they just need more time.

Liberal Logic 29 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stabitha Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Liberal Logic, please go review the history of
> the
> > Pittsburgh Steelers.
> >
> > 3 coaches since the merger (1969?). Knoll,
> Cowher,
> > Tomlin.
> >
> > How has that worked out?
>
>
> This really isnt rocket science, they had good
> coaches not to mention great roids doctors in the
> 70s.
>
> Yea you guys are all right now coach should ever
> be fired ever, they just need more time thats
> whats wrong, not that theyre a shitty coach, cant
> manage a clock, pick shitty players, or make
> stupid decisions.
>
> I guess every coach should just be given life time
> contracts and if their team blows for a decade oh
> well they just need more time, who cares if theyre
> actually getting worse as time goes on they just
> need more time.


Oh, LL cool liberal logic, don't take your ball and go home now.

Which one among us ever said no coach should ever be fired, and/or should be given lifetime contracts?

You shouldn't take arguments to their most ridiculous conclusions.

It's a fallacious argument.

As someone with logic in their name, you should appreciate that.

I've accomplished an awful lot at UVA and am ready to step up to the pros. Tell Danny Snyder I'm available. BTW, also let him know I used to be a cop!

LL cool liberal logic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh, LL cool liberal logic, don't take your ball
> and go home now.
>
> Which one among us ever said no coach should ever
> be fired, and/or should be given lifetime
> contracts?
>
> You shouldn't take arguments to their most
> ridiculous conclusions.
>
> It's a fallacious argument.
>
> As someone with logic in their name, you should
> appreciate that.

Trying to back track already?

Youre only argument is that change is bad and you shouldnt ever make a change because it disrupts a team. So LOGICALLY that means every coach should give a life time contract.

Unless of course youre willing to admit that theres bad coaches. If so then you need to make a case for why Shanny should stay that doesnt involved because change is bad which is all youve been rambling on about now.

All of this has been going over your head though so why should we expect Skins fans to start using logic now. This is why people are so happy when the Skins lose, because of fans like you who just bury your head in the sand thinking theyre close to/are perennial contenders.

They probably have the worst coach in the league right now in case you havent noticed, definitely bottom 3

I'm willing to admit there's bad punctuation.

Yo so I was pulled over and cops found a crumb of weed on me. You think I'm gonna get anal raped when I go to jail. Let me know I wanna make sure my butthole is stretched... don't wanna tear a glute.

Don't forget to pull up the one on the super-hot EMT. That was a real favorite!

Been a Redskin fan since 1963 while watching the game with my father on B&W TV. I believe Snyder has been hands-off with Shanahan since the McNabb debacle - at least it appears that way. My belief is that you don't change horses in the middle of the stream. I believe Shanahan is a winning coach and I believe that he can turn the Redskins into winners if he will face one glaring problem: that is he is letting friendship interfere with his judgement regarding the defense. He must fire Jim Hazzlet and obtain a new defensive coordinator that has some concept of what defenses are being played and are successful today. If Shanahan is unable to break that tie and put what's best for the team ahead of the friendship between them then Shanahan must go. Otherwise he is a keeper and I think we'll see a drastic difference in W-L when he brings in someone who really knows how to handle the defense.

good article in today's paper...

today Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> good article in today's paper...

Is RGIII pimping some more shit?