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Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Lopter ()
Date: December 08, 2008 03:20PM

Washington Post Article

'Pro-Life' Drugstores Market Beliefs
No Contraceptives For Chantilly Shop

By Rob Stein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, June 16, 2008; A01


When DMC Pharmacy opens this summer on Route 50 in Chantilly, the shelves will be stocked with allergy remedies, pain relievers, antiseptic ointments and almost everything else sold in any drugstore. But anyone who wants condoms, birth control pills or the Plan B emergency contraceptive will be turned away.

That's because the drugstore, located in a typical shopping plaza featuring a Ruby Tuesday, a Papa John's and a Kmart, will be a "pro-life pharmacy" -- meaning, among other things, that it will eschew all contraceptives.

The pharmacy is one of a small but growing number of drugstores around the country that have become the latest front in a conflict pitting patients' rights against those of health-care workers who assert a "right of conscience" to refuse to provide care or products that they find objectionable.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: December 08, 2008 03:47PM

This is fucking stupid. Logically, all modern medicine goes against God's plan, so they should find it all objectionable.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: USAProud ()
Date: December 08, 2008 03:57PM

The store has a right to select their inventory -- but they should not receive any state/fed funds via prescription plans.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: December 08, 2008 04:07PM

... Vince(1) rant in five, four, three.....

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: trogdor! ()
Date: December 08, 2008 05:37PM

Good luck opening a business in this economic climate.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: KeepOnTruckin ()
Date: December 08, 2008 06:55PM

trogdor! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Good luck opening a business in this economic
> climate.

And in the metrotech shopping center no less- nobody there makes any money

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: December 08, 2008 07:03PM

From the World Health Organization Website (www.who.int)

Promoting family planning
In recent decades, there have been tremendous advances in the development of safer and more effective contraceptives, and in the provision of affordable and accessible family planning services. Yet, still millions of individuals and couples around the world are unable to plan their families as they wish. It is estimated that over 120 million couples do not use contraceptives, despite wanting to space or limit their childbearing. In addition, many women who use contraceptives nevertheless become pregnant. Other couples who want to have children are unable to conceive.



Some of the causes of unmet need for family planning services are:

(i) lack of services or barriers to their access;

(ii) poor quality of services, such as suboptimal interactions between clients and providers, substandard technical competence of providers, inadequate information, poor design and management of service delivery systems;

(iii) technology issues, such as limited or inappropriate choice of methods and fear, or experience, of side effects; and

(iv) broader social issues, such as an individual’s lack of knowledge, power imbalances within couples and families, and sociocultural, religious and gender barriers.

(V) A DMC Pharmay in the area

In seeking to ensure that the maximum number of people are able to access the services they need, the Department of Reproductive Health and Research (RHR) focuses on four objectives: (i) to increase the availability of high-quality services; (ii) to broaden the range of safe, effective, acceptable and affordable family planning and infertility technologies and interventions that is available to all women and men; (iii) to strengthen the capacity of national health systems to ensure the availability of high-quality and sustainable family planning programmes and services in resource-poor settings; and (iv) to promote an environment at international level that is supportive of family planning. (V) The education of the owners of DMC Pharmacy.


Ok you got me - some of that I made up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2008 07:03PM by Radiophile.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: December 08, 2008 07:23PM

Damn even those backwards Iraniains sort of understood the issue - bak in 1992.

From a Statement by
H.E. Ms. Shahla Habibi
Presidential Advisor on Women's Affairs
of the Islamic Republic of Iran
before
The Fourth World Conference on Women
Beijing
September 1995


To be exact, I am concerned about the weight given to the question of abortion, disguised by certain ambiguous references in the text. We believe that the right of women to choose should not be exercised at the expense of the right of an unborn child to life. Providing affordable family planning programs and strengthening moral values and social responsibilities prevent resorting to abortion as a method of birth control and termination of unwanted pregnancies.


----Even the Iranians said providing "affordable family programs..." is the right thing to do. Guess what DMC Pharmacy - even the Iranians think you are "backward".

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Rowsdower ()
Date: December 08, 2008 07:27PM

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is fucking stupid. Logically, all modern
> medicine goes against God's plan, so they should
> find it all objectionable.

Please expand on your premise.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: December 08, 2008 07:29PM

Those evil socialists again!

Assembly Council of Europe

Report
Committee on Equal Opportunities for Women and Men
Rapporteur: Mrs Gisela WURM, Austria, Socialist Group

– adopt appropriate sexual and reproductive health strategies, including access of women and men to contraception at a reasonable cost and of a suitable nature for them as well as compulsory relationships and sex education for young people.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: December 08, 2008 08:34PM

TheMeeper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... Vince(1) rant in five, four, three.....


i think the shock may have killed him. awesome.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Junes ()
Date: December 09, 2008 08:35AM

Despite accusations of being an ubra conservative, I am very much opposed to the "pick and choose policy" as to what prescriptions will be dispensed by a Pharmacist and general products that pertain to the "interruption of pro-creation"are carried in a DRUG STORE.

I wonder if these same Pharmacists and Drug Stores will also refuse to dispense prescriptions for STDs and HIV/AIDS.

This brings to mind a Hispanic store in Herndon that offered "under the counter" birth control pills and within a few months several Latinas were pregnant. Church? Pharmacist? Store Owner? Or some warped individual? No one is sure - but the mission was accomplished and I'm sure the Bible Thumping Pharmacists were doing the Hallelujah Dance.

The State Police were brought in, an investigation conducted, nothing further reported and the store is still open with the same management.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 09, 2008 08:38AM

Well...you all can't say I didnt tell you so...you heard it here first. If you dont think that the agenda of the right to lifers isnt to deny us all most forms of birth control here is the first indication of just how bold these people are. Of course the issue wont be the facts in this case...but me!

The pharmacists license should be evoked the first time they refuse to fill a legally prescribed prescription.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2008 01:51PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 09, 2008 08:40AM

USAProud Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The store has a right to select their inventory --
> but they should not receive any state/fed funds
> via prescription plans.


No they don't..they are issued a license to serve the public...all the public with medical services...not to judge other persons life styles...and birth control decisions.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 09, 2008 08:43AM

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Damn even those backwards Iraniains sort of
> understood the issue - bak in 1992.
>
> From a Statement by
> H.E. Ms. Shahla Habibi
> Presidential Advisor on Women's Affairs
> of the Islamic Republic of Iran
> before
> The Fourth World Conference on Women
> Beijing
> September 1995
>
>
> To be exact, I am concerned about the weight given
> to the question of abortion, disguised by certain
> ambiguous references in the text. We believe that
> the right of women to choose should not be
> exercised at the expense of the right of an unborn
> child to life. Providing affordable family
> planning programs and strengthening moral values
> and social responsibilities prevent resorting to
> abortion as a method of birth control and
> termination of unwanted pregnancies.
>
>
> ----Even the Iranians said providing "affordable
> family programs..." is the right thing to do.
> Guess what DMC Pharmacy - even the Iranians think
> you are "backward".


LOL...ignorant Iranians..endorsed by an ignorant Kristian!

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: oaktonmom ()
Date: December 09, 2008 08:55AM

Vince -- So you're an atheist too? Shocker!

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Junes ()
Date: December 09, 2008 09:00AM

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Providing affordable family
> planning programs and strengthening moral values
> and social responsibilities prevent resorting to
> abortion as a method of birth control and
> termination of unwanted pregnancies.
>

Until then, how many more "born" babies do you want to see tossed into a field in a trash bag to die of exposure, suffocation or starvation Rad?

I'm not trying to talk you down - I would love to see a day when all babies conceived are planned, wanted and loved - but that's not the nature of the human species nor has it been for thousands of years.

Telling women that - once again - the government will "nationalize" their bodies and deny all forms of birth control except abstinence is not going to fly.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: TheMeeper ()
Date: December 09, 2008 09:08AM

Ummmmm.... I'm pretty sure Radiophile was being ironic here ...

Or maybe he's suddenly found Jesus, lol

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: December 09, 2008 10:12AM

Rowsdower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is fucking stupid. Logically, all modern
> > medicine goes against God's plan, so they
> should
> > find it all objectionable.
>
> Please expand on your premise.

Well, many Christians believe in the "it's God's will" principle, where everything happens according to the way that God wants it. So, if God gives you a fatal illness and you treat it with medicine, you either A) don't trust God to heal you, or B) are going against God's plan to kill you.

Now, people will argue that God gave us the knowledge to make medicine and all of these nifty medical procedures to keep us alive. However, if that's true, couldn't you also argue that God gave us the knowledge of stem cell research and genetic manipulation, which also has the potential to save lives?

This does create a very slippery slope. If they don't want to give you condoms and birth control to prevent an out-of-wedlock baby, does that mean they'll refuse you medicine for your bastard child or STDs? Right now, they're just picking and choosing which moral principles they want to follow.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: formerhick76 ()
Date: December 09, 2008 11:36AM

oaktonmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince -- So you're an atheist too? Shocker!

So what if he were?

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: om nom nom ()
Date: December 09, 2008 12:30PM

Junes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This brings to mind a Hispanic store in Herndon
> that offered "under the counter" birth control
> pills and within a few months several Latinas were
> pregnant. Church? Pharmacist? Store Owner? Or
> some warped individual? No one is sure - but the
> mission was accomplished and I'm sure the Bible
> Thumping Pharmacists were doing the Hallelujah
> Dance.
>
> The State Police were brought in, an investigation
> conducted, nothing further reported and the store
> is still open with the same management.


Could you elaborate on that or provide a news story? I'm afraid I don't completely understand what happened.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Junes ()
Date: December 09, 2008 12:51PM

om nom nom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could you elaborate on that or provide a news
> story? I'm afraid I don't completely understand
> what happened.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/21/AR2006092101563.html

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Date: December 09, 2008 01:15PM

No rubbers? Is the Pharmacy run by The Pope?

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 09, 2008 01:49PM

oaktonmom Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince -- So you're an atheist too? Shocker!


Of course...facts would convince any reasonable person to be atheist.

Folks..this issue is not going away. In the sate of VA there is a State Senator Ken Cuccinelli (R) from VA's 37th District (springfield) who supports this kind of crap..the following was lifted from his web site

"Conscience Clause: I support the right of professionals to refuse to perform an action that is inconsistent with their moral convictions without losing their job."

Sounds all so nice but what this guy wants to do is allow pharmacists at CVS, Giant and other drug dtores to be able to deny women access to birth control.

Ken Cuccinelli is running in the next general election as the Republikan nominee for State Attorney General!

http://www.cuccinelli.org/is-freedom.shtml



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2008 02:13PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: December 09, 2008 01:52PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oaktonmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince -- So you're an atheist too? Shocker!
>
>
> Of course...facts would convince any reasonable
> person to be atheist.

Although, it's already been established that you're not a very reasonable person.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Date: December 09, 2008 01:57PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oaktonmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Vince -- So you're an atheist too? Shocker!
>
>
> Of course...facts would convince any reasonable
> person to be atheist.


Actually, I think atheists are just as unreasonable as fanatical Christians.

Personally, I am agnostic. I don't believe there is any evidence or rational construct that I am aware of that would convince me that the God of the Bible definitely exists. At the same time, not knowing everything there is to know about the Universe, I haven't seen anything that definitely convinces me that there isn't some form of Divine Creator. I'm skeptical, but I would be ignorant to emphatically state there isn't a God with the information I have available to me.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 09, 2008 02:07PM

In what way is an atheist just as unreasonable as a fanatical Christian? There is nothing associated with a disbelief in god that condemns others who do. There is no dogma to atheism...no sins to condemn one to eternal hell. Atheist believe in a society based on laws and science..that's all.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 09, 2008 02:11PM

> Although, it's already been established that
> you're not a very reasonable person.

In what way? Because I dont believe illegal immigrants are the source of all out problems? Because I am firmly for a women's right to choose? Because I will not let go unanswered the ridiculous claims of republikans. Have I threatened anyone on here? Do I post pictures of animals being tortured? Do I tell pepole to STFU as is routinely done on here (okay, I might have told registered voter to STFU...that's it...well maybe Gravis).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2008 02:12PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Date: December 09, 2008 02:32PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In what way is an atheist just as unreasonable as
> a fanatical Christian? There is nothing
> associated with a disbelief in god that condemns
> others who do.

Do you believe people who believe in God are stupid or misguided? Have you ever told somebody who believes in God that they are stupid or misguided?

> There is no dogma to atheism...

Actually, there is. The dogma of disbelief. You are not even open to the idea that there may be a God. How is that better than someone who refuses to even consider the idea that there isn't a God. You are an extremist.

> no
> sins to condemn one to eternal hell. Atheist
> believe in a society based on laws and
> science..that's all.

No you don't. If we had a society based solely on laws and science, you would have a society where it would make sense to euthanize the weak, sick and mentally handicapped, whether they wanted it or not. You would have what you see in nature, people left behind to make room for the living.

There are some positives associated with religious beliefs that benefit society as a whole, even if I don't hold those beliefs myself.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: December 09, 2008 02:32PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because I will not let go unanswered the
> ridiculous claims of republikans.

Exhibit A.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 09, 2008 03:25PM

MrMephisto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Because I will not let go unanswered the
> > ridiculous claims of republikans.
>
> Exhibit A.

well...if my little playful use of the letter "k" makes me unreasonable...I am guilty as charged!

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Gravis ()
Date: December 09, 2008 03:27PM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oaktonmom Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Vince -- So you're an atheist too? Shocker!
>
> Of course...facts would convince any reasonable
> person to be atheist.


which makes 95% of the worlds population to be unreasonable but not you, you are perfectly reasonable.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."095042938540

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 09, 2008 03:43PM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > In what way is an atheist just as unreasonable
> as
> > a fanatical Christian? There is nothing
> > associated with a disbelief in god that
> condemns
> > others who do.
>
> Do you believe people who believe in God are
> stupid or misguided? Have you ever told somebody
> who believes in God that they are stupid or
> misguided?

Of course I have...so have you. I do not think persons of great religious beleif or no godly existense are the only ones who have called other persons "stupid", agnostics have called both religious and non-believers stupid for their belief structure. I believe this to be a human trate not associated with any particular belief structure.

> > There is no dogma to atheism...
>
> Actually, there is. The dogma of disbelief. You
> are not even open to the idea that there may be a
> God. How is that better than someone who refuses
> to even consider the idea that there isn't a God.
> You are an extremist.

My dogma is science..and science changes based upon the facts known at that point in time...so in fact science is not a dogma. When science proves to me there is a god..I will believe in god.
>
> > no
> > sins to condemn one to eternal hell. Atheist
> > believe in a society based on laws and
> > science..that's all.
>
> No you don't. If we had a society based solely on
> laws and science, you would have a society where
> it would make sense to euthanize the weak, sick
> and mentally handicapped, whether they wanted it
> or not. You would have what you see in nature,
> people left behind to make room for the living.

I do not consider the concepts of euthanazure to be the sole proprietarship of atheists! Many religious societies have believed in it. You are confusing christians beliefs as some sort of standard. It isnt.


> There are some positives associated with religious
> beliefs that benefit society as a whole, even if I
> don't hold those beliefs myself.

As an atheist I too see some of the positives of god based beleif structures... it is obvious that some people need to grasp onto their guns and religion to get them through lifes daily challenges.

Im sorry you have yet to prove anything to me that associates atheism to fundamental kristinas. Yes..I call them stupid..and they call me stupid..and you call me stupid..and I call you stupid at times. The difference is..neither you or I would condemn that person as being a sinner...and subject to all the punishments non-repetent sinners are subject to. I and you would simply say...read a book..not the good book...a book of science...a book of law...a book on the humanities.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2008 03:50PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: TRICKIE ()
Date: December 09, 2008 03:45PM

WashingTone Locian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No rubbers? Is the Pharmacy run by The Pope?

Actually I have been thinking a lot about this pharmacy and the other venture under the same umbrella - Tepeyac Family Center in Fairfax. Both business ventures are supported by the Catholic church in many ways. Instead of advertising in the local church bulletins, each week both the pharmacy and the obstetric clinic are given a paragraph of written support inside the bulletin. Many business owner are pro choice, but they have to pay for their ads in the bulletin. I know the Tepeyac Family center also takes donations to cover the medical costs of their patients - many are unwed moms or moms without health insurance. A big part of their donations comes from our local Catholic churches.

I am not trying to get into some huge argument here re: pro life or anything but I do attend a local Catholic church each week and I have been seeing the write ups for both businessses now for a long time. My questions about the pharmacy are: will it be more expensive since they cannot buy in bulk? Will they take health insurance cards from federal or county workers? Would a regular Fairfax County citizen go there to buy some Big Lash mascara or will they go to CVS instead. Will people travel a long way to support this business just to have an RX filled for ampicillin??

This is an interesting thread.

Trickie

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 09, 2008 03:53PM

Gravis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince(1) Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > oaktonmom Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > > Vince -- So you're an atheist too? Shocker!
> >
> > Of course...facts would convince any reasonable
> > person to be atheist.
>
> which makes 95% of the worlds population to be
> unreasonable but not you, you are perfectly
> reasonable.


Thank you Gravis..I do believe that to be the kindest thing you've ever said to me..I am blushing.

If you were to reverse my statement...that reasonable believe in a god...here are some reasonable ideas...

Nearly half (48 percent) of the public rejects the scientific theory of evolution; one-third (34 percent) of college graduates say they accept the Biblical account of creation as fact. Seventy-three percent of Evangelical Protestants say they believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years; 39 percent of non-Evangelical Protestants and 41 percent of Catholics agree with that view



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2008 07:48PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: tubby ()
Date: December 09, 2008 07:31PM

The place doesn't have a prayer (pun intended).

Single independent drug stores are very close to extinction.

Hell, Rite-Aid is about to go belly up.

Are there enough religious whack jobs around here willing to pay more and drive farther to support this place? I highly doubt it.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 09, 2008 09:27PM

trickie raises good points. retail pharmacy is about waaaaaaay more than prescriptions.. those places make much more of their dough from the non-rx goods they sell while people are stadning around or passing by for their prescription.

my point: can a modern pharmacy, especially in this area, afford to alienate so many people to serve the few?

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 09, 2008 09:28PM

then again, one could argue we are not talking about a modern pharmacy...

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 09, 2008 09:30PM

Oh yeah I forgot to add: what does the paharmacist do when women are prescribed those pills for other reasons? Women don't just use them for birth control.. there are other valid medical reasons that a woman may need to take those pills. Not having a vagina, I am not totally sure what they are. I know a woman who takes them to "control her flow", whatever that means. I think I know but it seems better to pretend not to.... it's so gross.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Bob ()
Date: December 09, 2008 11:11PM

This is about as bad as the muslim cab drivers who refuse to take passengers who have been drinking or are carrying alcohol.

Don't get into a line of work where you might find moral or religious objections. You can't become a doctor and then refuse to provide life support or certain medications to dying people because you believe God wants them to die. Why is this any different?

These religious fundamentalists are no different than the islamic extremists. They believe that religious beliefs are something to externalize and project onto others, while intelligent people internalize their religious beliefs and do not seek to force them on others.

My God is better than their god, anyway. He doesn't expect everyone to become the morality police. They have that shit in Saudi Arabia and Iran. It's how 15 year old girls end up being hanged for getting raped, or adulteresses are stoned to death in the town square. My God doesn't play like that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2008 11:15PM by Bob.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 09, 2008 11:22PM

What really bothers me is that the pharmacists in VA are all doctors now, it's the law. Doctors, as bob pointed out, have an obligation to do no harm and treat the patient in front of them... one could argue there is harm done by not helping certain women avoid pregnancy. People should not have to give up sexual interaction, a basic component of human life, just because they are unable to receive other care that can mitigate consequences.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Bob ()
Date: December 09, 2008 11:30PM

Rowsdower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMephisto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This is fucking stupid. Logically, all modern
> > medicine goes against God's plan, so they
> should
> > find it all objectionable.
>
> Please expand on your premise.

I think he was sort of being facetious, making fun of the fundamentalist tendency to have pre-enlightenment/pre-reformation/pre-Martin Luther (not MLK, Martin Luther, who nailed his "95 Theses" to a church door) backwards attitudes about religion.

At least, that's my take, because I find it sort of funny how alot of the protestant sects appear to be going backwards while the catholic church is much more progressive and enlightened about religion in general, while the protestant sects separated from the catholic church for these very issues -- "the church" being anti-science, anti-medicine, etc.

You did know that at one time "the church" could have you burned at the stake for dissecting a human body, or for having certain scientific texts, or even having a telescope or saying that the earth orbitted the sun, didn't you?

This is the 21st century, but a lot of this christian fundamentalism is no different from Islamic fundaementalism. They appear to be more interested in the 1400s or thereabouts, than moving forward as a civilization. For some reason, lack of education and relgion are a bad mix. It tends to bring out the worst in people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2008 11:33PM by Bob.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Bob ()
Date: December 09, 2008 11:46PM

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What really bothers me is that the pharmacists in
> VA are all doctors now, it's the law. Doctors, as
> bob pointed out, have an obligation to do no harm
> and treat the patient in front of them... one
> could argue there is harm done by not helping
> certain women avoid pregnancy. People should not
> have to give up sexual interaction, a basic
> component of human life, just because they are
> unable to receive other care that can mitigate
> consequences.

Are pharmacists Doctors?? I don't believe that they are.

However, they are pharmacists. They went to school to learn about pharmacology. At some point they should have figured out that they were entering a field rife with moral land-mines for typical religious fundamentalists, and maybe should have chosen another career path that wouldn't force them to deal with moral conflict. Instead, people like the pharmacist in the article referenced decided this was an opportunity to become religious activists and to force their beliefs on the marketplace.

I always thought the morning-after pill had a humurous name -- "RU-486" as in, Are you for 86'ing that fertilized egg?? :)

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 09, 2008 11:51PM

bob, the ones certified since the late 90's are, at least. I worked as a pharm tech for a while, and we had a couple of pharmacy students there. They informed me the requirements had changed, requiring them to receive a doctorate (in pharmacology) before they could test to be certified.

feel free to find contradicting legal code.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2008 11:51PM by RESton Peace.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Bob ()
Date: December 09, 2008 11:57PM

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> bob, the ones certified since the late 90's are,
> at least. I worked as a pharm tech for a while,
> and we had a couple of pharmacy students there.
> They informed me the requirements had changed,
> requiring them to receive a doctorate (in
> pharmacology) before they could test to be
> certified.
>
> feel free to find contradicting legal code.

I'll take your word for it.

I just don't know if they actually took the hippocratic oath, or anything like that. Because that is the only time they would be required, by oath, to "do no harm." My father has a PhD in Economics, so he is also, technically, a doctor, but I don't think he had to take the hippocratic oath.

Either way, that's sorta splitting hairs. They chose to become pharmacists, so they should not be allowed to pick and choose what prescriptions they will honor. Aren't they, in a way, countermanding a doctor's orders?


BTW, did you work at the Oakton Giant Pharmacy? And then quit and took a job doing HVAC repair for a while? I knew someone about 5 or 6 years ago who was a pharmacy tech. Just wondering.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2008 12:03AM by Bob.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Doctor of Economics ()
Date: December 10, 2008 12:16AM

No disrespect to your father but... Perhaps, given the state of Wall Street and the geniuses bailing them out, Phd Economists _should_ be required to take (and understand) the Hippocratic oath.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Bob ()
Date: December 10, 2008 12:48AM

Doctor of Economics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No disrespect to your father but... Perhaps, given
> the state of Wall Street and the geniuses bailing
> them out, Phd Economists _should_ be required to
> take (and understand) the Hippocratic oath.


That's fair to say, in a way, if you believe that all PhD's in Economics had something to do with the collateralized debt obligations and other 21st century junk bonds.

But try to sit down with Steiglitz and tell him he has some responsibility for this mess. There were economists who tried to prevent the changing of the rules, but they were ignored because it's such a buzz kill to be told that your instant gratification and easy profit will destroy the economy.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: December 10, 2008 05:53AM

Pharmacists have a position of public trust. They have a job and a duty. A pharmacist NOT dispensing medications on a "moral" ground should be no more tolerated than a fireman refusing to douse water on a fire at at a Synagouge or pilot refusing to fly with African Americans on the plane.

Are we enlightened or not?

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: RESton Peace ()
Date: December 10, 2008 05:55AM

Apparently not.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 10, 2008 09:02AM

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pharmacists have a position of public trust. They
> have a job and a duty. A pharmacist NOT dispensing
> medications on a "moral" ground should be no more
> tolerated than a fireman refusing to douse water
> on a fire at at a Synagouge or pilot refusing to
> fly with African Americans on the plane.
>
> Are we enlightened or not?


You sir are 100% correct. If a pharmacists doesnt want to serve the entire public they should quit being a pharmacist. This issue is a REAL issue in VA state politics...I already posted about Sen K Cuccinneli was I wont repeat myself..but people need to take this issue seriously and get involved and vote accordingly.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Lurker. ()
Date: December 10, 2008 09:17AM

The pharmacy is toted as a non-profit venture, but I'd like to see the books behind it. The near by Catholic church does advertise it and actually blessed the property. Seems to me this pharmacist may be using this as a marketing ploy to lock in "right to life" people.

That said, that shopping center has a high turn over rate so the place probably doesn't stand a chance. I am surprise however that the Catholic Store in the same shopping center has survived for years. I never see anybody in the store or cars in the parking lot.

The website - http://www.dmcpharm.com/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/2008 09:20AM by Lurker..

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 10, 2008 10:17AM

WHat you have to realize is that these stores are subsidized by the very deep pockets of the catholic church and are designed to be a prescedent to be used when the catholic church decides to pressure other catholic pharmicists working at your neighborhood CVS into doing the same. If you think I am being paranoid remember this the next time you see a car bumper sticker saying "you cant be catholic and be pro-choice". This is the message the catholic church is sending out...damning catholics who support other peoples right to choose.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: MrMephisto ()
Date: December 10, 2008 11:54AM

In the spirit of reconciliation, I fixed your post for you.

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WHat you have to realize is that these stores are
> subsidized by the very deep pokkets of the katholik
> khurkh and are designed to be a preskedent to be used
> when the katholik khurkh dekides to pressure other
> katholik pharmikists working at your neighborhood KVS
> into doing the same. If you think I am being paranoid
> remember this the next time you see a kar bumper stikker
> saying "you kant be katholik and be pro-khoike". This
> is the message the katholik khurkh is sending out...
> damning katholiks who support other peoples right to
> khoose.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: ddddumb ()
Date: December 10, 2008 12:50PM

Why do people feel alienated by people who run their business how they want to - for better or worse. We do still live in a free country and people can say and do stupid things. Anyone who has a problem with this is not a freedom loving person. Just an arrogant prick who wants to dictate to people how they want things to be using the basis of sensitivity. If you don't like it, don't shop there. If they stay open I commend them on a good angle on a business plan. You have to separate yourself somehow and there is no better way than doing something controversial

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Concerned Parent ()
Date: December 10, 2008 12:54PM

I think that I have some impressive things to say on the Latin thread so I thought I would join this thread, too.--DITZ

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: LuckyToBeAlive ()
Date: December 10, 2008 05:45PM

As someone who is alive merely BECAUSE of birth control I'm disgusted by this shop. Living so close to it, I have to see it every day and realize that people like the owners are nothing but ignorant. I realize that birth control as a form of birth control is wrong in their eyes, but if I hadn't been prescribed it I've have hemorrhaged to death by the age of 15. Truly disgusting knowing this is so close to my home and that these people feel the need to preach their religion to everyone around.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: ITRADE ()
Date: December 12, 2008 03:21PM

Radiophile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pharmacists have a position of public trust. They
> have a job and a duty. A pharmacist NOT dispensing
> medications on a "moral" ground should be no more
> tolerated than a fireman refusing to douse water
> on a fire at at a Synagouge or pilot refusing to
> fly with African Americans on the plane.
>
> Are we enlightened or not?


Does that mean I should demand a pork hotdog from a muslim butcher? After all, they're in a position of public trust.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: December 12, 2008 05:52PM

ITRADE Wrote:
> Does that mean I should demand a pork hotdog from
> a muslim butcher? After all, they're in a
> position of public trust.

When was the last time - except for the time Spunky was in heat - someone yelled ""I need a pork hot dog, NOW!"

Except for cleanliness standards, butchers are not held to the same trust that phamacists, doctors, school teachers, airline pilots, and actuaries are.

Phamcists have a code of ethics. I am refering here to

III. A pharmacist respects the autonomy and dignity ofeach patient.

A pharmacist promotes the right of self-determination andrecognizes individual self-worth by encouraging patients to participate in decisions about their health. A pharmacistcommunicates with patients in terms that are understandable. In all cases, a pharmacist respects personal and cultural differencesamong patients.

And recites this oath

At this time, I vow to devote my professional life to the service of all humankind through the profession of pharmacy.

I will consider the welfare of humanity and relief of human suffering my primary concerns.

I will apply my knowledge, experience, and skills to the best of my ability to assure optimal drug therapy outcomes for the patients I serve.

I will keep abreast of developments and maintain professional competency in my profession of pharmacy. I will maintain the highest principles of moral, ethical and legal conduct.

I will embrace and advocate change in the profession of pharmacy that improves patient care.

I take these vows voluntarily with the full realization of the responsibility with which I am entrusted by the public.

key words "entrusted by the public".

I could not immediately find a code of ethics for butchers - but if you can find them, I will be happy to discuss your question.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 12, 2008 06:45PM

ITRADE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Radiophile Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pharmacists have a position of public trust.
> They
> > have a job and a duty. A pharmacist NOT
> dispensing
> > medications on a "moral" ground should be no
> more
> > tolerated than a fireman refusing to douse
> water
> > on a fire at at a Synagouge or pilot refusing
> to
> > fly with African Americans on the plane.
> >
> > Are we enlightened or not?
>
>
> Does that mean I should demand a pork hotdog from
> a muslim butcher? After all, they're in a
> position of public trust.


Im sorry...but a butcher/pharmicist comparison just doesnt hold water! An educated person walking into a muslim or jewish butcher would reasonably expect that butcher not to offer pork products. A person entering a pharmacist should be able to reasonably expect a legally issued prescription to be filled.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2008 06:47PM by Vince(1).

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Bob ()
Date: December 13, 2008 01:07AM

Vince(1) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> Im sorry...but a butcher/pharmicist comparison
> just doesnt hold water! An educated person
> walking into a muslim or jewish butcher would
> reasonably expect that butcher not to offer pork
> products. A person entering a pharmacist should
> be able to reasonably expect a legally issued
> prescription to be filled.


It doesn't compare in so many ways. If I go into a butcher and they don't sell pork, I can decide to buy some chicken or beef to make dinner. If I go into a pharmacy and the pharmacist refuses to fill my doctor's prescription for a morning after pill because I was raped and my medical tests show that I would hemorrhage and die without it, I can't just say "okay, I'll guess I'll just take one of your crazy religious pamphlets and pray that I don't die.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: SimpleSolution ()
Date: December 13, 2008 02:26AM

Bob Wrote:
>I
> can't just say "okay, I'll guess I'll just take
> one of your crazy religious pamphlets and pray
> that I don't die.

Or, you could just go to CVS and be done with it.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 13, 2008 09:31AM

SimpleSolution Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bob Wrote:
> >I
> > can't just say "okay, I'll guess I'll just take
> > one of your crazy religious pamphlets and pray
> > that I don't die.
>
> Or, you could just go to CVS and be done with it.


And hope that on that day the pharmacist isnt a catholic (or another zealot right to lifer) who wont give you your prescription. This is exactly the issue..there are those who beleive any pharmacist should be able to not fill the prescription and not risk loosing their job.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Bull Conner ()
Date: December 13, 2008 09:57AM

You're not fooling anyone Meeper, or is it Vince? Responding to your own posts under a different name. What an asshole!

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Junes ()
Date: December 18, 2008 02:37PM

Bush couldn't overturn Roe v Wade, so today, he issued a sweeping regulation that protects a broad range of health-care workers -- from doctors to janitors

================

New Rule Protects Health-Care Workers' 'Right of Conscience'

The Bush administration today issued a sweeping new regulation that protects a broad range of health-care workers -- from doctors to janitors -- who refuse to participate in providing services that they believe violate their personal, moral or religious beliefs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/18/AR2008121801556.html?hpid=topnews

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: right of conscience ()
Date: December 18, 2008 03:11PM

I fully support a right of conscience for a pharmacy business which chooses to sell products (or not) in their discretion.

However, if that same business wants access to federal or state reimbursements - and frankly - then they must dispense approved legal and safe products that physicians lawfully prescribe - or forego the government reimbursements.

Good luck staying in business without federal or state reimbursements.

But if they deign to try it - i.e., and rely on a narrow slice of customers that would place their moral priorities over all other aspects of a pharmaceutical sale - including of course price and service - we ought to let them do so. My guess is that with this policy this event would be a non-issue real quick.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Vince(1) ()
Date: December 18, 2008 03:36PM

Well... the plan is to provide all medical personnel and hospitals and pharmicists with a "concious:" exemption which would make institutions eligable for federal funding..and persons free from the fear of being fired.

Catholic hospitals already have a protection from lawsuits for refusing to perform medically necessary abortions...now they want to spread this concept to doctors and pharmacists.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2008 06:45AM by Vince(1).

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: December 18, 2008 05:33PM

right of conscience Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I fully support a right of conscience for a
> pharmacy business which chooses to sell products
> (or not) in their discretion.

What you mean to say is a Medicine shop, not a pharmacy. You see, a "Pharmacist" takes theis oath and abides by a code of ethics. Calling anyone else a pharmicist is akin to calling the kids selling on the street pharmacists.

At this time, I vow to devote my professional life to the service of all humankind through the profession of pharmacy.

I will consider the welfare of humanity and relief of human suffering my primary concerns.

I will apply my knowledge, experience, and skills to the best of my ability to assure optimal drug therapy outcomes for the patients I serve.

I will keep abreast of developments and maintain professional competency in my profession of pharmacy. I will maintain the highest principles of moral, ethical and legal conduct.

I will embrace and advocate change in the profession of pharmacy that improves patient care.

I take these vows voluntarily with the full realization of the responsibility with which I am entrusted by the public.


The unborn is NOT a pharmcists patient.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Junes ()
Date: December 19, 2008 05:08AM

RESton Peace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What really bothers me is that the pharmacists in
> VA are all doctors now, it's the law. Doctors, as
> bob pointed out, have an obligation to do no harm
> and treat the patient in front of them... one
> could argue there is harm done by not helping
> certain women avoid pregnancy. People should not
> have to give up sexual interaction, a basic
> component of human life, just because they are
> unable to receive other care that can mitigate
> consequences.

Would you please note your source? It was my understanding that pharmacists are NOT doctors, but required by law to hold a Doctor of Pharmacy (Pharm. D.) degree.

I find it difficult to believe that all VA Pharmacists are medical doctors.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Radiophile ()
Date: December 19, 2008 07:21AM

Junes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RESton Peace Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What really bothers me is that the pharmacists
> in
> > VA are all doctors now, it's the law. Doctors,
> as
> > bob pointed out, have an obligation to do no
> harm
> > and treat the patient in front of them... one
> > could argue there is harm done by not helping
> > certain women avoid pregnancy. People should
> not
> > have to give up sexual interaction, a basic
> > component of human life, just because they are
> > unable to receive other care that can mitigate
> > consequences.
>
> Would you please note your source? It was my
> understanding that pharmacists are NOT doctors,
> but required by law to hold a Doctor of Pharmacy
> (Pharm. D.) degree.
>
> I find it difficult to believe that all VA
> Pharmacists are medical doctors.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, job description of a phamcist: A license is required; the prospective pharmacist must graduate from an accredited college of pharmacy and pass a series of examinations.

So there we have it.

The problem is, as I see it, is a licensed pharmacist in most cases would not have any objection to upholding the standards of his/her profession.

The issue is whether the other people the store - non licensed assistants, cashiers etc will make the patient uncomfortable. That is the true meaning of the new Bush regulations: to protect the religous zealots.

In Science Versus Religion, Science always wins. But religion keeps fighting back.

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Re: Pro-Life Pharmacy in Chantilly
Posted by: Junes ()
Date: December 20, 2008 07:02AM

TRICKIE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Actually I have been thinking a lot about this
> pharmacy and the other venture under the same
> umbrella - Tepeyac Family Center in Fairfax. Both
> business ventures are supported by the Catholic
> church in many ways.

> Many business owner are pro choice, but they have
> to pay for their ads in the bulletin. I know the
> Tepeyac Family center also takes donations to
> cover the medical costs of their patients - many
> are unwed moms or moms without health insurance.
> A big part of their donations comes from local
> churches
>

Tepeyac Family Center in Fairfax may have survived not JUST because of its reputation or church donations but from indirect tax funded subsidies. Reston Interfaith and other non-profit groups receive grants from the County to support programs such as the Center.

http://www.restoninterfaith.org/pages/page.asp?page_id=15037

Because the grant money is allocated in a lump sum, with no specific use, it is next to impossible to know who benefits from these dollars. FYI: Since the closing of the Day Labor Center in Herndon, Reston Interfaith still uses a portion of it's County grant dollars to "work with illegal alien" day laborers.

When we indirectly support these non-profits, of course they will survive - even if a portion of the tax payers who support them are denied the right to fill certain prescriptions in their pharmacies.

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