Barbara Brown- the person with all the post on here. Why dont you give your email to everyone like you did for the fcps employee?

How much money/time has been spent pulling this info? I'm sure you can tell us Barbara Brown.

Why do you care if a teacher, janitor or office workers gets an ice cream, t shirt or meal on staff appreciation day. Not from tax money but from optional soda vending and student parking?

truther Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Barbara Brown- the person with all the post on
> here. Why dont you give your email to everyone
> like you did for the fcps employee?
>
> How much money/time has been spent pulling this
> info? I'm sure you can tell us Barbara Brown.
>
> Why do you care if a teacher, janitor or office
> workers gets an ice cream, t shirt or meal on
> staff appreciation day. Not from tax money but
> from optional soda vending and student parking?


Hey truther:

Wondering how you know who is posting? The only way you would know who got the information from FCPS from a Freedom of Information request is that you are an FCPS-paid troll.

Another Barbara maybe - Barbara 'my job is to massage the reputation of FCPS' Hunter?

Any tax payer can get this public information legally. If FCPS was really transparent you would just put it online to begin with.

We don't give a crap who's posting it, only FCPS-paid trolls do. Besides you know what happens when you ASSume.

What we do care about is that the teachers don't have the basic supplies for classroom unless they pay for it out of their own pockets or we send it to fill their longer and longer and longer supply lists at the beginning of the year or through out the year because the Principals need to save the money ti make sure they can go to St. Michaels MD, Landsdowne, get massages, buy tee shirts, go to Costco and, I don't know, buy a pony.

where you get this? Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "The federal government and military do it all the
> time."
>
>
> ^NOT TRUE AT ALL! We have to pay for EVERYTHING.
> I can't even take a visiting professor to lunch
> (unless I pay or he pays). We pay for any
> lunches, retirements, parties out of our own
> pockets. There are very strict rules.
>
>
> It's also dang weird to say that you don't care
> until the principals start hiring hookers. Wow,
> you have some pretty high standards for how your
> tax money is used.



I agree with this.

lack of ethics is a problem Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "So what school do you work at? This is all
> unethical and improper. I worked at a school and
> the principal used all these little perks to
> compensate for being a shitty administrator."
>
>
> This is a BIG problem. I worked at a school where
> the administrator went even further---overlooking
> leave slips for certain favored teachers and
> letting them take time off. If you weren't a
> favored teacher, too bad. Of course you could
> exploit this and threaten blackmail once you found
> out about the "secret favor" system (and I saw
> teachers doing that too). I left. The
> administrator is still there and the atmosphere is
> pretty bad. This happens with the money spent as
> well (certain teachers got to go on the junkets
> and others did not). This is what the lack of
> regulation and credit cards can lead to. You
> can't wait until the administrator brings in
> hookers. It's too late.
>
> Tighten up FCPS!



It has already evolved into an out of control situation.

Will a principal buy a pony and bring it to school? Sounds good to me.

School Board Standing Committees
FY 2015

Audit Committee Members:
Ilryong Moon, Chairman; Dan Storck, Jane Strauss


with ^^^^^ not only will nothing change, it'll be like having Oprah for Principal.
Attachments:

Who is going to clean up all the horse manure? New positions will have to be created. It will required multiple layers of Administrators, a retreat at the Gold Cup races every year, dinner at the Inn at Little Washington for the whole gang..................................

LAUREN M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Who is going to clean up all the horse manure? New
> positions will have to be created. It will
> required multiple layers of Administrators, a
> retreat at the Gold Cup races every year, dinner
> at the Inn at Little Washington for the whole
> gang..................................


For starters, we need to get make sure these people, who have never done anything about it, never ever get re=elected.

Jane Strauss, Dranesville District Representative SINCE 1991!

lryong Moon, Member At Large SINCE 1995!

Kathy Smith, Sully District Representative SINCE 2002!



Other Representatives who do us no favors as useless rubber stamps?

Ted Velkoff, at Large

Ryan McElveen, at Large

^Do they have credit cards? Who monitors them? MOCO's board just turned in their credit cards.

Are they afraid to do anything for fear that their credit card receipts will be looked at? What gives?

The Mount Vernon HS faculty golf outing in 2012 was NOT $1065.65. The actual invoice reads $1915.65.

We were lucky enough to get a Beat the Heat Special on the Bays. It could have been more.

I am going to put out these documents and leave it at that.

Yeh.
Attachments:

I have another 11 schools to evaluate.
I will open with Hayfield. Honorable Mention for $12,000 spent over the last year at Shawn's Smokehouse BBQ. A pesticide penalty to the Treasurer of Virginia. Lots and lots of meals and presents and snacks and parties and clothing and embroidery and about $2700 spent on an Admin at the Westin. Etc.
Attachments:

Almost $10,000 on clothing. Almost $3000 on flowers, some purchases are hundreds of dollars. About $4000 at the Springfield Country Club. Lots of "charges" that need to be evaluated. Plus, the usual assortment of parties and meals. A retreat at Lansdowne that ran over $3300. Etc.
Attachments:

American BBQ $4082.50, a $3500 retreat, almost $8000 at Sophia's Café, $4200 at Famous Dave's.

"We are broke." "Everything is on the table."
Attachments:

Thousands on clothing, including about $2500 on "faculty gowns".
If you are an educator, you need to buy a gown to wear at graduations. Out of your own money.
Lots of unexplained "charges", the usual restaurants, etc.
$385 on carnations.
Attachments:

The usual thousands on parties, meals, clothing, "fireside chat" stuff.
Attachments:

"If you are an educator, you need to buy a gown to wear at graduations. Out of your own money."


My feeling is that wearing a robe in the line should not be mandatory. When I was in PW County, they had a few teachers lead the line in robes (not all). The teachers who had robes (some people buy them when they graduate and keep them) generally chose that duty. There were other duties one could pick for the ceremony. There are ways to save money and this is one way.

the robes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "If you are an educator, you need to buy a gown to
> wear at graduations. Out of your own money."
>
>
> My feeling is that wearing a robe in the line
> should not be mandatory. When I was in PW County,
> they had a few teachers lead the line in robes
> (not all). The teachers who had robes (some
> people buy them when they graduate and keep them)
> generally chose that duty. There were other
> duties one could pick for the ceremony. There are
> ways to save money and this is one way.

My spouse was an educator. Their PhD attire was an expense they paid for themselves. If you need to wear something like that, it is your expense. They can't expect the public to pay for everything for them. As a professional person and an adult, you have certain things you need to purchase. Like underwear, shoes, clothing, and yes appropriate attire for graduation.

Yawn. A lot of this is much to do about nothing. Some stupid spending, sure. My question to The Facts would be what incident put you on this vendetta? Kid got a bad grade? School made you pay for a lost textbook? You didn't get hired by the FCPS finance department? Please tell.

I guess she did not get a refund for a field trip cuz she refused to read the fine print on the form. Or did not understand what "non refundable' means. So feeling slighted she has made it her mission to waste taxpayers money by requesting FOIAs ad nauseum. Her requests have probably created another job at Gatehouse to research all the FOIA requests.

But again, I will agree some of the spending habits need to change. Admin retreats and big money dinners should be reined in. Clothes, food, occasional backrubs for teachers are well deserved. However, I would like to do a FOIA request on The Facts to determine the root cause of her mission. My guess is she has a a high school aged kid, and something happened to piss her off. Please tell us the facts behind The Facts.

The fact that these are official records that were audited prove that no one was trying to hide anything. It should be pointed out that many schools have retreats in the school library with Subway sandwiches as the menu. It should also be pointed out the teachers are required to go to graduation after contract hours and that the senior class decides what the garb will be. These posts will not change practice as the spending is not illegal, although the admin trips to posh resorts are definitely questionable! The fact that the poster begrudges teachers receiving Spirit wear T-shirts, a bottle of water, or some food indicates that she does not value them one bit as she lumps those expenditures with Landsdowne. If she says "use of public funds" one more time I think I will retch! Another point, the use of county credit cards helps keep accurate records of what was spent. It is much better to use those rather than to reimburse or write checks when paying for food, drink or trips.

If a high school teacher is complaining about going to graduation after contract hours, something is seriously wrong with his/her priorities.

"I guess she did not get a refund for a field trip cuz she refused to read the fine print on the form. Or did not understand what "non refundable' means. So feeling slighted she has made it her mission to waste taxpayers money by requesting FOIAs ad nauseum. Her requests have probably created another job at Gatehouse to research all the FOIA requests."


I doubt this is about failure to get a field trip refund because she has to pay for these FOIAs and money is clearly not a big problem for this person. I would be interested in knowing how much money she has shelled out so far on these FOIA requests. It has to be in the thousands. Just saying. The person doing them seems to be very cooperative and happy to do them.

I do agree that not all of the money spent seems to have been misused. I think the larger question is how this money should be appropriated and how the accountability for its use should be monitored (because some of it seems fine and some not at all---like the Nationals tickets, posh hotels, etc.). If the principals need money for legitimate purposes, should this money be coming from parking lot fees and soda machines or should the SB give them funds in a more legitimate manner? How is it determined the manner in which the slush fund exists? Who is checking on how much money comes out of the soda machines? I know this all sounds like we aren't trusting, but some schools seem to have a lot more money than others (and does that mean their staff is more deserving of the massages, t-shirts, better food, etc.)? At the end of the day, this is public money and when money is tight (as they said it was last year), it becomes crucial to maintain public trust so that any further increases in taxes will be supported.

Those are the bigger questions. I am sure that 95% of the administrators are trying to do their best with this money. However, it is probably in their own best interests to be protected by some kind of guidelines on this money.

"If a high school teacher is complaining about going to graduation after contract hours, something is seriously wrong with his/her priorities."


I believe that graduation is actually written in the contract. It's not "after contract hours". I think the complaint is about spending money on the robes. I know teachers who did not have robes because they weren't required to be bought back in the day, etc. The robe issue is small compared to other stuff out there and it is definitely not in the same league as posh hotels, etc. The robes and sashes can cost hundreds of dollars, but you can find stuff in the $50 range on Ebay (I mean cloth and not plastic). That's what I did. There were only a few for sale there and there are sizes so it's not exactly cheap for a new teacher. The master's sash cost me over $100 new. I think it's nice for the school to get them for teachers if they are required to walk with students. But I bought my own just to avoid the hassle.

With regard to graduation, my original post did not imply that I or other teachers did not want to go as many of us relish the opportunity to say goodbye to the students whom we have taught. We certainly are not in education in order to get a free gown! I have been to 30 FCPS graduations wearing my own robe and my own master's hood. For the record, there is nothing in the teachers' contract to say he or she must go to graduation. The FCPS regulation is that you serve at the principal's discretion. Thus principlals can require attendance. Many schools rent the garb from companies such as Balfour; they do not buy them outright for those who do not own their own academic regalia. I think this thread is getting caught up in things which are not essential to the discussion such as graduation. I think it was useful to point out that certain schools appear to go way overboard when it comes to administrative perks. Once again, I point out that these are not illegal,otherwise the principals would all be facing charges.

250 teachers times $100 plus each for robes etc. is an enormous expense for a school to pick up and needs to be looked at. If you are required to wear a uniform for graduation and you are required to be there....I have to buy my uniforms for work.

I knew this all was going on, the newspaper article was not completely accurate (I don't see too many copiers, extra staff, etc. as reported by the school staff, do you?), and this is a great way to get the word out. I think a lot of stuff needs to get looked at here. They are trimming services to the children, increasing workloads for the teachers, while people are checking into Lansdowne and other resorts/hotels for a "retreat", making arrangements for staff massages, spending thousands of dollars on BBQ, going to the country clubs, going to a baseball game on our dime? Right. Something is very wrong with this situation.

The FOIA fees are reasonable and well worth it. More people should do it. I think getting this out to the public is a great thing to do. It's your money! Whoever deals with the FOIA requests can gripe all they want but it is their job, I have a right to the information, and there is nothing anybody can do to anybody who asks for information under FOIA in Virginia. They have a whole department handling this kind of stuff. I don't feel guilty about anything!

If people don't like seeing what they are doing put out for the public, then clean it up. My guess is that some of the gripers are some of the people who have been enjoying massages, etc. on the public dollar and aren't happy about the cat being let out of the bag.

I think a lot of people would have a lot more time to do their jobs if they weren't spending so much time on this kind of stuff. Planning and keeping track of all this is a huge job, let alone dealing with all the meals, huge luncheons, driving down to the baseball game, handing out all the presents and clothing, etc. No wonder they feel strained at doing their primary jobs. TEACHING CHILDREN!

Let the sun shine.

Thousands on clothing, more parties and meals, etc.
Attachments:

I am going to have to pull details on about $20,000+++ of generic "charges". Oh well.
Attachments:

Another $3000+ luncheon, all the usual stuff.
Attachments:

I am going to have to pull a LOT of transactions on this. $6600 on "Personalized Presents".
Attachments:

Mt. Vernon. Home of the $1900 golf outing. We have a retreat at Homewood Suites that looks like it was at Arundel Mills (up in Maryland). $2000. I need to pull some more records on this report.
Attachments:

I am going to have to pull lots of charges on this one, also.
Attachments:

Oh, and if the usage of the terms "public dollars/money/funds" make you retch, then if you are working for the school system you need to find another job-in a private school. If you are a citizen and it makes you retch, then there is something wrong with you. I am not the one wasting taxpayer money.

Near as I can tell, there shouldn't be many meals on the county credit cards to keep track of, because if you are on per diem, you receive that and pay out of pocket. If you aren't on per diem, you pay for your own meals or pack a brown bag. You work for the government. Oh well. Ditto some of the other expenses.

And I beg to disagree on whether all these expenditures are legal or not. If they are not in compliance with school regulations, which many of them aren't.......

Somebody needs to look at this and make some hard decisions and set some hard limits.

I just wish the Washington Post would get a hold of this and run with it, name names, highlight specific illegal spending and interview some boards members why they rubber stamp huge increases in the school budget when this non sense is going on. The Post seems to be interested in much more frivolous government in appropriate behavior

I am putting this all out there, and you all can do whatever you want with it. It is all public record, and open season.

If you look at these records, I am not the one wasting county money. $12,000 on BBQ, $3000 "meetings", baseball game "retreats" (we were paying them to work at school while they were at a baseball game), golf outings, massages...

I don't doubt that funds are sometimes spent on things they shouldn't be. But, as an FCPS teacher for the past eleven years, I can't recall that I've ever received more then 2 or 3 meals a year paid for by the school (this doesn't include the lunch or two provided by the PTA during teacher appreciation week). Each of those school provided meals has been on an evening like back-to-school night, curriculum night, or some function that obligated me to be at work for an extra 4 or 5 hours without receiving any pay for it.

If you want me to extend my workday without pay by as much as sometimes 80% or more, the least you could do is not bitch about your tax dollars buying me a $6 Chipotle burrito.

Other people have to stay late at work with "no pay" (on salary) and buy their own burritos. Feeding you is not your employer's responsibility. Just something to think about.

Also, your contract does not say you will get fed. It says you will get paid.

Back to School Night is part of the contract.

I'll still take my burrito and consider it owed

As an FCPS parent who pays for parking, I think the facts has gone a little rogue in the opinion department. The sanctimonious statements like 'if this doesn't make you retch" indicates a loss of objectivity. I really don't mind if my principal buys the teachers t-shirts, food, or other for morale purposes. At my son's high school (which I won't name) I noted clothing line item that I know was for students. My first roommate after college was a teacher, and I can attest to the thousands of unpaid hours at home grading papers, preparing lesson plans, going in to set up room, phone calls/emails with parents...NOT JUST ON PARENT TEACHER NIGHT.

I am entitled to my opinion, I paid for all of this, I posted all of this, and if I want to opinionate, I will. I don't know what to make of some of this stuff. I know staff put in a lot of hard, long hours. However, you have to look closely at trying to feed and clothe 250+ adults per high school. You are fighting a losing battle trying to keep up with that in an attempt to keep staff happy. It will never be enough. I worked for the government for years and we did 60+ hour weeks and never got massages, beach bags and beach towels, paid parking tickets, ice cream, smoothies, $3000 meetings, baseball games, luxury hotels, dinner at Morton's or any other kind of dinner, sunset cruises, etc. paid for by public dollars. We never even expected any of that. We just knew that was the way it was. We had a Sunshine Fund that we all chipped in to for flowers and retirement gifts. Because the taxpayers aren't supposed to buying that stuff. I realize some of the clothing might have been for students, however, most of it was clearly labelled as faculty/staff/admin. Trying to clothe 2000 kids per high school is also a losing battle.

The money is this account is NOT the principals' personal money to do whatever they want with. It is public money. They are public officials, there are guidelines for use of public money, and their licenses depend on them following school regulations and state and federal laws.

I know I am not the only person whose jaw dropped to the floor at some of the expenses.

If you are going to trim services to children, load up on class sizes, and ask for more tax money, you need to hold up your end of the agreement and use the money given to you very, very carefully. And use the time we pay for to educate children and do your administrative work, NOT party/dine/snack/hang out in the lap of luxury/cruise/divvy up hundreds of presents/shop for these presents, etc.

I always have taken in food for teacher appreciation week, end of the year luncheon, back to school treats, holiday treats, etc. Why are we doing this if they are already buying all this out of this fund?

I just wish they would be honest with us. For years FCPS told us that building use fees were collected to pay for the custodians. Apparently not.

The individual schools retain 15% of the building use/rental fees, out of county tuition, parking fees, and vandalism. They retain all of the building use application fees and the other things. I have no idea how the custodians are paid. They could be paid by central or out of this account but it is not clearly indicated. The custodians certainly have to be paid, and I am sure they are, and there is wear and tear on the buildings, etc.
I saw 15% retained athletic fees put into this account with a few schools. The regulation specifically says only certain funds can be put into this account, and those are NOT on the list.
I posted the ECA guidelines earlier. The only thing that isn't clear is that the principals can use the money for whatever they think is appropriate. That is a big loophole. It certainly still needs to be interpreted in the light of the other local regulations, and state and federal laws. The title of this fund is "Educational", NOT "party and fine dining" or "staff benefits". I think some people have gotten really confused and are making emotional decisions rather than objective, rational decisions.

however Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Other people have to stay late at work with "no
> pay" (on salary) and buy their own burritos.
> Feeding you is not your employer's responsibility.
> Just something to think about.
>
> Also, your contract does not say you will get fed.
> It says you will get paid.
>
> Back to School Night is part of the contract.


Yes. It's a hard knock life.

"I'll still take my burrito and consider it owed"


This is what happens when people are underpaid and feel less than appreciated. I have no doubt that the principals mean well by feeding staff and giving them t shirts. They know that the teachers have difficult jobs and they want to show them that they are appreciated. My problem is with how the money is meted out (it is not even across schools and it is disingenuous not to tell people how the fees are applied). I also have a problem with the fancy restaurants and the baseball game and hotel expenses as those are luxuries by any measure. I think it's okay to give the principals some kind of a fund, but don't call it an "educational fund" and don't take the money out of "fees". The SB needs to just budget some money and then tell how it can be spent (like for meals on back to school nights, etc.). It would not be hard to come up with a list of appropriate expenditure items based on all the things that have been purchased). Maybe it could be called the "teacher morale fund". The PTSA could also possibly raise some money to pay for some of these "comfort" items (and be upfront about what the money is for).

Just because you think your pay is too low doesn't give you the right to expect or give out thousands of dollars of public money for these kinds of things. Everybody thinks their pay is too low. Now they think they are entitled to all of this. You don't just help yourselves because you are unhappy with the pay scale.

^ I have to agree with you. I think that emotions have gotten in the way with this "fee for slush" scheme. The SB needs to deal with it.

I'm starting to wonder about the "fees" that I pay when I go to the county parks. For example, I have rented the pavillions for parties. Is a certain percentage of the "fee" set aside so that the staff there can have lunches, retirement parties, flowers when they get sick, conference fees, hotel room fees, etc. (with the exception of hiring hookers)? Since it's a "fee", I suppose it is "optional" and it is therefore not "public" money?

I'm mostly worried about the county parks. It seems that the feds have pretty strict regulations and I'm not sure about the state (but it seems a bit dicey there given the lack of regulations on gifts). Does anyone know?

Just because something is optional does not make it NOT public money. The money is under the control of county officials and comes from use of public property and services, etc. You should not have to choose between buying a parking pass or a Coke or paying out of county tuition and paying for massages, etc. or not buying a parking pass/Coke/tuition.

the pay is too low Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "I'll still take my burrito and consider it owed"
>
>
> This is what happens when people are underpaid and
> feel less than appreciated. I have no doubt that
> the principals mean well by feeding staff and
> giving them t shirts. They know that the teachers
> have difficult jobs and they want to show them
> that they are appreciated. My problem is with how
> the money is meted out (it is not even across
> schools and it is disingenuous not to tell people
> how the fees are applied). I also have a problem
> with the fancy restaurants and the baseball game
> and hotel expenses as those are luxuries by any
> measure. I think it's okay to give the principals
> some kind of a fund, but don't call it an
> "educational fund" and don't take the money out of
> "fees". The SB needs to just budget some money
> and then tell how it can be spent (like for meals
> on back to school nights, etc.). It would not be
> hard to come up with a list of appropriate
> expenditure items based on all the things that
> have been purchased). Maybe it could be called
> the "teacher morale fund". The PTSA could also
> possibly raise some money to pay for some of these
> "comfort" items (and be upfront about what the
> money is for).


I feel overworked and underappreciated all the time. It doesn't make anybody want to give me anything.

bullcrap Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the pay is too low Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > "I'll still take my burrito and consider it
> owed"
> >
> >
> > This is what happens when people are underpaid
> and
> > feel less than appreciated. I have no doubt
> that
> > the principals mean well by feeding staff and
> > giving them t shirts. They know that the
> teachers
> > have difficult jobs and they want to show them
> > that they are appreciated. My problem is with
> how
> > the money is meted out (it is not even across
> > schools and it is disingenuous not to tell
> people
> > how the fees are applied). I also have a
> problem
> > with the fancy restaurants and the baseball
> game
> > and hotel expenses as those are luxuries by any
> > measure. I think it's okay to give the
> principals
> > some kind of a fund, but don't call it an
> > "educational fund" and don't take the money out
> of
> > "fees". The SB needs to just budget some money
> > and then tell how it can be spent (like for
> meals
> > on back to school nights, etc.). It would not
> be
> > hard to come up with a list of appropriate
> > expenditure items based on all the things that
> > have been purchased). Maybe it could be called
> > the "teacher morale fund". The PTSA could also
> > possibly raise some money to pay for some of
> these
> > "comfort" items (and be upfront about what the
> > money is for).
>
>
> I feel overworked and underappreciated all the
> time. It doesn't make anybody want to give me
> anything.

All of FFX Underground wants to give you a great big hug!

The ECA account is not tax dollars. Sorry, but buying lunch or breakfast once or twice a year at $10 a head is not a big deal. 85% of parking money goes to the county.

The ECA is still public money. It doesn't matter that it isn't tax dollars. There is lots more to it than parking pass money, also.

Oakton has blown about 100 grand on restaurants in the last 4 years, BTW. Pretty impressive.

Shocking. A school purchased pizza from Dominoes!

the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am going to have to pull lots of charges on this
> one, also.


Really, not much even flowed through the account, Barb.

slush Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the facts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am going to have to pull lots of charges on
> this
> > one, also.
>
>
> Really, not much even flowed through the account,
> Barb



It isn't just the amounts.

paidinfull Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shocking. A school purchased pizza from Dominoes!


they are buying a lot more than pizza. Are you saying you prefer Papa John's and don't understand why they are buying at Dominoes?

the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The ECA is still public money. It doesn't matter
> that it isn't tax dollars. There is lots more to
> it than parking pass money, also.
>
> Oakton has blown about 100 grand on restaurants in
> the last 4 years, BTW. Pretty impressive.

I actually think it was 100 grand in just three years. It is probably more like 125 grand over four years, if not more. These people really like to party.

That is salary for two teachers.

This is not really parking pass slush material, but since everybody is following this, I pulled the last few months of county credit card information and travel and expense information on the Superintendent and the Chairman of the School Board. The chairman is the only member of the School Board who is issued a county charge card. There haven't been any statements since the current chairman took over, so I am now pulling the statements for the last year and a half on the former.

Just thought it fit in, since Mo Co was mentioned in this thread.

There you go.
Attachments:

You really are being driven by some motivation unexplained. There is nothing illegal about being reimbursed for local travel.

I never said there was a problem with local travel! Where did you get that idea? You seem to have jumped to conclusions.

I am just posting the information. They go from school to school. I am sure there is mileage.

Because it has started to feel like watching a Congressional hearing where everything starts to look suspicious. Well, why did you drive to that meeting? Why didn't you take a bus? Or wasn't there a county vehicle? Oh wait, we took all those county vehicles away because that was the last scandal.

I'm not tuning in anymore

^I'm going to agree with the fellow parent above. This has just gotten pretty lame. My kids go to Madison High School. While I don't think every expenditure has been the best decision, I have found the administrators and teachers always very professional when I have had to deal with them. I'm not suspicious of my kids' principal anymore. I'm suspicious of "the facts" and her ulterior motives.

I don't have ulterior motives. I am just spreading the word.

It's not like I am staying at the luxury hotels, going to $3000 meetings, getting massages, going to baseball games, enjoying having people buy me lunch, getting flowers and presents, going to fancy restaurants, etc. All on public dollars. I have to buy my own stuff.

Wake up call-this money is supposed to be spent on your children. The staff are spending it like drunken sailors on themselves, then say they don't have enough for the children, then want to raise your taxes.

Got it?

^ I don't think you have to be either "for or against" the facts lady. You can be for some of the spending and against other spending. I think the fact that the FOIA exists is a good thing and that exposing this information may, at the very least, lead to some better decisions about how money is spent. It may also lead to safeguards for people who decide to become administrators. I think they are great people also, but they need to be protected by having some guidelines in place. Any of this information could be used against them in ways that could be detrimental to their careers. They need guidelines at the very least.

the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't have ulterior motives. I am just spreading
> the word.
>
> It's not like I am staying at the luxury hotels,
> going to $3000 meetings, getting massages, going
> to baseball games, enjoying having people buy me
> lunch, getting flowers and presents, going to
> fancy restaurants, etc. All on public dollars. I
> have to buy my own stuff.
>
> Wake up call-this money is supposed to be spent on
> your children. The staff are spending it like
> drunken sailors on themselves, then say they don't
> have enough for the children, then want to raise
> your taxes.
>
> Got it?

Clearly , you have a motive Barb. Feeding 200 people costs. Having a retreat for people who work when they are not paid is not extravagant. Barb, you live in Oakton. Change the name of the account and your witch hunt is over.

the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the facts Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The ECA is still public money. It doesn't
> matter
> > that it isn't tax dollars. There is lots more
> to
> > it than parking pass money, also.
> >
> > Oakton has blown about 100 grand on restaurants
> in
> > the last 4 years, BTW. Pretty impressive.
>
> I actually think it was 100 grand in just three
> years. It is probably more like 125 grand over
> four years, if not more. These people really like
> to party.
>
> That is salary for two teachers.

Party in the school cafeteria. Woo hoo. Barb, restaurants deliver.

some is fine for sure Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ^ I don't think you have to be either "for or
> against" the facts lady. You can be for some of
> the spending and against other spending. I think
> the fact that the FOIA exists is a good thing and
> that exposing this information may, at the very
> least, lead to some better decisions about how
> money is spent. It may also lead to safeguards
> for people who decide to become administrators. I
> think they are great people also, but they need to
> be protected by having some guidelines in place.
> Any of this information could be used against them
> in ways that could be detrimental to their
> careers. They need guidelines at the very least.



Thank you. Foia is a wonderful tool in a situation like this.

I have never seen so many immature people in all of my life.

Well, actually I have.

And I don't want to hear any whining from Oakton people. I have records back to 2010 on them and they are posted here. I am sure if I pulled some of the other high rollers back a few more years, things would be very similar. I think we got a really good picture by looking at the last year or so. They all have 5-6 years of records. Want me to put in more FOIA requests? I am sure Brandynn would love it in the DCCO.

If anybody at Oakton (or any other school) is upset about being fingered, then quit doing what you are doing/find another source of funds for this stuff. I wasn't the one signing all the checks and making decisions. Think it through next time BEFORE you sign those checks and go slapping down the county plastic.

The legal people and the business office also need to get it together and set up some guidelines and limits. Their current system is a disaster and a liability nightmare.

The FOIA docs prove that certain school principals have a different take on what is appropriate and what is not. If you filter out the comments of those who begrudge teachers some water and cookies the fact remains that pricy administrative retreats are not appropriate no matter what account the funds come from. I do hope that copies of these documents go to every member of the SB. One thing I am curious about was the mention of baseball games. I know that at one school tickets were available but staff paid for them. Thus is it possible that the staff payments were deposited into a school account so one check could be written? Another point is PTSA funds - unlike elementary schools PTSA membership drops greatly by HS - and money is not there for lavish treats. Staff are grateful for the homemade treats the volunteers provide. Bottom lime, not all HS are profligate with funds from any account and that fact should be supported with looking at all accounts. This is the job of the SB!

Bottom Line-----the baseball game tickets were purchased for 18 staff members. This was described as a "retreat". There was no record of any reimbursements on this account. If you are going to do a group purchase and then collect, you treat it as a social event, somebody gets out THEIR PERSONAL charge card to do the honors, and everybody pays them back. This account is NOT a personal checking account, even though it looks like it sometimes. BTW I didn't go looking for the hot dogs and popcorn and cold drinks and fries. That probably would add another $20-30 per person.

I have a feeling there are a LOT of school admin people following this thread, and I would not doubt the School Board is following it. Which is exactly why I am using this to spread the word. It is reaching a lot of people at a lot of different levels, it is easier than doing a newspaper article, easy to update, and it gives the staff an opportunity to see what their decisions look like displaved to the public. If you want, you can forward this whole thing to your SB member. I know Channel 4 has it, also.

the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More rocking and rolling at Oakton. The region 6A
> North $2000 is something to do with activities.
>
> About $15,000++ spent on clothing, planners, etc.
> The restaurant bills are staggering. A March
> Madness lunch for $335.24.
> At least $1200 on flowers.


What do you suppose these are for?
Attachments:

I saw the Band fee refunds and I just haven't had the time to follow up. I would think that those should have come from whatever fund they paid in to that was run through the school accounts. Maybe they used up all the funds, then realized that a few people were due refunds, and had to find the money somewhere. That would certainly be an educational expense as Band is a class. All the Band class fees at this school were run through school accounts (as vs Booster club accounts) that year. Feel free to ask Brandynn for supporting documents. I have enough irons in the fire with all the other issues right now.

There have been a couple of audits done on the school activity funds, for anybody who is interested. I first reported my concerns about the ECA usage about a year and a half ago. This is a little advanced, but for those who love audits like I do, these aren't too bad. Go past the window dressing to the findings. I particularly noticed

page 13- cash advance problems (never good)
page 17- 8 travel cash advance problems (really not good) this can be linked up with page 26 under the travel column. There was only one entry for travel problems and it was a high school and there is an 8 in this column. Take a look.
page 19-inappropriate use of Advanced Appropriated Funds. This is an account that is supposed to be used for office supplies and teaching materials.
20-class accounts. A bunch of money was left over from some class accounts (after the seniors graduated, there was money left over). What to do with it? Good question. What happened to your kids' accounts? Maybe you should ask.
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Here's another one.

Page 19-NO MEALS ON P-CARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's what I said.
page 20-more Advanced Appropriated Funds problems.
page 21-a student club account was tapped to pay for a faculty golf tournament, and there is no record of any approval of the club for this activity. It looks like it was to benefit the students, but you have to ask.

You have to remember they can't and don't look at everything on these accounts with an audit. I strongly recommend parents pull the accounts of anything they have an interest in and take a look at what is going on. These people are handling an enormous amount of money and the more eyes on these, the better. It is very easy to do.

Have a nice weekend.
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the facts Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mt. Vernon. Home of the $1900 golf outing. We have
> a retreat at Homewood Suites that looks like it
> was at Arundel Mills (up in Maryland). $2000. I
> need to pull some more records on this report.


Homewood suites! Crazy luxury!

I noticed it was the Kmart version. You can bet it still probably ran at least 3 grand. Blue Light Special.

Anybody like the audits? I just loved the appropriated funds being used for teacher treats. Thank God the auditor caught that. The $155 shoes that the kids bought the coach were pretty good, too.

But, my all time favorite was the unsubstantiated cash advances probably by the high school that begins with an M. Wonder how that turned out.

When you take out a cash advance you get your rear end in with every scrap of documentation to support it. You don't wait for a summer auditor to pull your pants down and publish it in an audit.

Nice tan line.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmadison?!

I want to know who the pathetic ass was who expected a bunch of kids to pay for their shoes. Is there any way to find out?

the big question is who was the principal who didn't have the gonads to say pay for these yourself. it looks like there might have been multiple coaches. can anybody research this?

Hi 'facts'

I decided to do a little search myself, without a FOIA. I looked at a date at a high school where flowers and food were purchased and I thought...hmmm what was going on at the school that day. And I was easily able to determine it was an athlete college signing ceremony. Such a terrible judgement on the principal's behalf....sarcasm....

I do believe you have a grudge of some sort.....I think you have been posting under multiple names throughout this thread feeding the controversy and how 'you can't do this all by yourself'. So if you have a full time job and a family, should we do a FOIA on your work hours and verify you haven't been doing this on the job? ....again sarcasm....

So what is the purpose of these ongoing FOIA trains? Are you reporting this to the authorities or is it just to get your pound of flesh for not getting a refund on your darling's Band Spring trip (as rumors say) two years ago?

Really, I haven't seen any of this hit the news, or have the FX Board of Supervisors interested in taking these alleged corrupt officials to task.

But hey if it makes you feel good wasting time and $ and creating a position at Gatehouse (Public Information Specialist, (US 24 making 63 to 111k yr.) just to answer your FOIA requests, knock yourself out.

You do realize that on many occasions listed here, such as the lunches at the end of the year, the staff pays the school by cash or check, and the school rights one check to the restaurant or catering company for the full amount. Every year I have worked in FCS, I have paid between 15 and 40 dollars for our end of the year meal. Many restaurants demand one check when holding a room for an event like this, and the net cost is a wash for the taxpayer. This is at least the story in elementary and middle school.
Use your brains, people.

Duh. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You do realize that on many occasions listed here,
> such as the lunches at the end of the year, the
> staff pays the school by cash or check, and the
> school rights one check to the restaurant or
> catering company for the full amount. Every year I
> have worked in FCS, I have paid between 15 and 40
> dollars for our end of the year meal. Many
> restaurants demand one check when holding a room
> for an event like this, and the net cost is a wash
> for the taxpayer. This is at least the story in
> elementary and middle school.
> Use your brains, people.


Sorry, "writes", not "rights".

". I looked at a date at a high school where flowers and food were purchased and I thought...hmmm what was going on at the school that day. And I was easily able to determine it was an athlete college signing ceremony. Such a terrible judgement on the principal's behalf....sarcasm..."


Well, this kind of depends on what you think that fund is for . . .right? We have come to believe that every event must have flowers and food associated with it, but this is definitely a debatable thing. And who should pay for this? Maybe the school that is going to be receiving the athlete would more appropriately pay . . . and also it is debatable whether there should be a "signing ceremony" at the high school. It may be more appropriate for this to happen at the college itself? Just some thoughts.

Also, should a student who receives a full academic scholarship have a "signing ceremony" when they have been recruited by various colleges based on academic talent and hard work and choose one of the schools? Should there be food and flowers? There is usually an awards ceremony scheduled at the end of the year and maybe this is the appropriate venue to announce athletic scholarships as well (?). What about students who get full ride appointments to the military academies? Flowers? Food? Isn't the reward the scholarship itself?? Do we need to provide a party for them? These things are just as important to those individual students.

"You do realize that on many occasions listed here,
> such as the lunches at the end of the year, the
> staff pays the school by cash or check, and the
> school rights one check to the restaurant or
> catering company for the full amount. Every year I
> have worked in FCS, I have paid between 15 and 40
> dollars for our end of the year meal. Many
> restaurants demand one check when holding a room
> for an event like this, and the net cost is a wash
> for the taxpayer. This is at least the story in
> elementary and middle school.
> Use your brains, people."

But, wouldn't that be reflected on the audit as reimbursed instead of an expense?

Agreed, but I think that is all that is being offered here.

well, the truth is these funds are non-appropriated and can be used for any purpose at the discretion of the principal.

This is an official National Letter of Intent signing ceremony that takes place in every high school in Nov and February....you can look on the athletic web pages for a picture. Most athletes do not get a full ride or even any kind of scholarship (possible exception football/basketball)...simply the honor of playing the sport they love at the next level.

Are flowers/appetizers necessary? No. Is it inappropriate for principal to pay for from discretionary funds? Absolutely not. I picked a random date and that was the associated event.

All this started about an article in the post about the injustice about some schools have more funds generated from parking fees. Some schools have monopoles and others don't (some schools fight from having one installed, imagine that). Some schools have more fees generated from vending machines and building use. Some schools paid for their turf themselves out of booster fund and some are getting county dollars now. Inequities abound everywhere.

The point is, the facts seems to be on a crusade (one post suggests he/she trying to get the attention of school board rep for over 1.5 years...well before the WP article)....and I suspect prior to that. Some of the original posts rant about the mis-use of our 'tax dollars' and changed to 'public funds' when he/she was challenged.

Should teacher/staff educational conferences and admin retreats be paid for out of appropriated funds? Possibly. My guess is if we went through the various budget cuts they used to be.

"The point is, the facts seems to be on a crusade (one post suggests he/she trying to get the attention of school board rep for over 1.5 years...well before the WP article)....and I suspect prior to that. Some of the original posts rant about the mis-use of our 'tax dollars' and changed to 'public funds' when he/she was challenged."

Does it really matter why the poster is doing this? You are committing the fallacy of ad hominem (attacking the person making the argument). This is Debate 101 stuff.



The question of use of funds generated from tax supported facilities is relevant. There may be very good answers for the use of this money and that's fine. But attacking her personally is not going to get you too far as a logical arguing point.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

If the facts just presented the data no one would question his/her motive. Instead the facts inserts opinion everywhere and essentially attacks every high school administrator in the county. Putting their names out there.

^ Well, it's kinda hard to put the information out there without telling which schools it's from. It's an FOIA request. That sorta leads to who is the principal there, right?

And, if the facts person didn't have any opinions on this, why the heck would they be doing this? Opinions are just that--opinions. People are not so dumb as to not understand that. I wouldn't think anyone would have a reason to feel threatened if this is all legitimate spending.

As it stands, nothing illegal has happened. The facts has done nothing illegal and neither have the administrators. So why are you upset?

I think maybe you know that some of this spending is probably unethical and that it may be regulated in the future. Is that what is upsetting you?

Another thing---my name has been up on this forum as well because I am a public employee. When you work for the taxpayers, nothing is "private" about your work. You know that when you take the job. The people who pay you are your employer and they happen to be the taxpayers. Principals have a very public job and they know that every day.

just a fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another thing---my name has been up on this forum
> as well because I am a public employee. When you
> work for the taxpayers, nothing is "private" about
> your work. You know that when you take the job.
> The people who pay you are your employer and they
> happen to be the taxpayers. Principals have a
> very public job and they know that every day.


Wrong. That is your problem. The taxpayers are not the employer. Perhaps that is where your logic is flawed. Apply it to any other tax funded position. Military? I am not the employer of any soldier. Do you employ the contractor who repairs a road? You are not in charge, barb.

^ Exactly

Don't shoot the messenger. Don't dump on me in order to glorify some of this stuff. I will express an opinion if I want to. There isn't anything you can do about my job because my job is none of your business. You need to focus on how outrageous a lot of this is and the serious need for some limit setting and guideline development.

I haven't seen too many corresponding or identifiable deposits to balance out the many, many thousands of dollars spent on stuff. That's not to say there aren't some. If they aren't clearly labeled.....If people are completely paying their own way, somebody should put the meal or event on their personal credit card, NOT a government card. If the government isn't paying anything, there should be no need to put it on county plastic and confuse the issues. That means it is a private transaction. You don't put private transactions on county cards. You don't run private transactions through county records. You don't risk county money when you are trying to collect from dozens of people, some of which might back out. If this is a split transaction, with the school system subsidizing some of the expenses, that complicates things. What should they really be subsidizing? As somebody pointed out earlier, the contracts for these employees say they are paid. They don't say they are going to be fed, get massages, complimentary golf, presents, etc.

I am sure some of the expenses could be considered appropriate. I never said they weren't. I have mentioned several that were obviously appropriate EDUCATIONAL expenses. This is an EDUCATIONAL fund.

Quit complaining about FOAI. It's the law and there isn't anything you can do about that. They have already tried some adjustments that FAILED. I think it is a great tool. And if any administrators don't like seeing their work put out here for the whole county to see, too bad. Why don't you like seeing your work out here? Do you not want to rationalize your decisions? Do you think you shouldn't have to/

Here is another fine example of our broke school system. I had to work to get the receipts for the hotel meals on the Madison Lansdowne trip that showed up on the final bill.


Breakfast-GSA rates for Loudoun County are $10. We paid $31 a person including about $22 for the food, and then additional charges and gratuities.

Lunch-GSA rates for Loudoun County are $15. We paid $35 per person. $25 for the base rate plus service charges/tip/tax.

That is $66 a person times 9 people. For breakfast and lunch. In a local hotel. Right down the road from where a few of them live, probably.

The GSA rates are out here for perspective.
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just a fact Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another thing---my name has been up on this forum
> as well because I am a public employee. When you
> work for the taxpayers, nothing is "private" about
> your work. You know that when you take the job.
> The people who pay you are your employer and they
> happen to be the taxpayers. Principals have a
> very public job and they know that every day.



Nicely put.

"Wrong. That is your problem. The taxpayers are not the employer. Perhaps that is where your logic is flawed. Apply it to any other tax funded position. Military? I am not the employer of any soldier. Do you employ the contractor who repairs a road? You are not in charge, barb."



" The taxpayers are not the employer."


Isn't the county the employer? And don't the taxpayers fund the county? If A=B and B=C, then does not A=C?

taxpayers fund the county

the county funds the employer

therefore the taxpayers fund the employer


And . . . thus the taxpayers have control over the employer (through their representatives of course). No taxation without representation.

The representatives, be they the school board or the U.S. Congress (in the case of the military) or the state legislature (in the case of the roads) are responsible to their constituents (the taxpayers). The representatives serve the citizens/taxpayers.

Barb knows she is not in charge (since her representative is the one who has the power), but she also knows she has some power as a voting and taxpaying constituent. She is not outside of bounds in asking her representatives to look into this matter. They can tell her no or ignore her or whatever, but she has a right to ask. This is how the democratic process works.

And our ultimate power is the vote. We can vote people in or out of office. We can refuse to vote for a meals tax (that pressure has already been successful in preventing it from going any further). We can put pressure on our officials in many ways. The taxpayers DO have power. In the end the soldier and the contractor are controlled through this process. Ask any contractor or soldier whether the government (AKA the people) controls what they do.

Thank you, two civics people.

Anybody feeling a little pressured now that thousands of people know that you have been using public dollars to treat yourselves to fine restaurants, massages, inappropriately mismanaging EIGHT cash advances, etc.? I would hope so. Are you looking forward to an auditorium/school full of people in September who know you have been living it up at Pulcinella, Wildfire, Lansdowne, Harbourtowne, the Loews, the Hilton, forgetting to justify cash advances, and getting massages on Teacher Workdays instead of grading papers and having staff meetings like you said you were? Any other taxpayers wonder why public funds are being used to fund multiple golf outings? If you belong to an association, YOU belong to an association. And if they want to go golfing, that is YOUR problem, NOT OURS. Any School Board members getting e-mails from people that don't want their fees going for this garbage? Many of you are going to try to be re-elected in a couple of years. Good luck explaining some of this on the campaign trail. Maybe I'll be there with reports in hand.

MoCo SB cut up their county charge cards. I think they set an excellent example of responding to pressure from their constituents. I can name more than a few administrators who need to do that.

The taxpayers ARE the employer. If it weren't for them, there wouldn't be any money to pay the School Board and the school personnel. And don't ever forget that.

Line-dancing, anyone?