To me there are two ideal solutions to this problem. Either:

1) Change the mascot from an indian to a potato. I'm not joking here... a red potato mascot will allow them to keep the team name as it de-couples the name from indians.

2) Tell the indians to fuck off because they are the conquered and the losers. Winners take the spoils, sorry.

The hypocrisy in using a racial slur to name the main sports team of the capital of a nation that sells itself as the principle purveyor of freedom and equality has always struck me as perfectly poignant - excuse all the alliteration.

Part of the problem the Native Americans have with this effort is that they go after every team with a Native American name. While the Redskins name could be deemed offensive, there is nothing offensive about calling a team The Braves or The Warriors or even The Indians (though the frickin mascot is offensive). That's the same as saying The Cowboys offend ranchers or the 49ers offend members of the mining industry. It's just stupid.

That said, I think the Redskins need to lose the name, because it is seen by most as a racial slur. I would suggest going either with the Reds and use the lazy "R" as the insignia or go with the short-hand "Skins" and adopt an "S" logo. I personally think the team emblem looks outdated anyway.

You know how it is today, everyone has to find something to be offended about so they can be a victim. Maybe get on Oprah or Dr Phil.

The skins were the "braves" when they were in boston. That would be the only logical transition. If they change that name to anything else, I'll become a Ravens fan full-time...both teams suck equally so at least the number of wins won't change.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2006 05:42PM by RESton Peace.

My favorite team is the Cleveland Indians. I love their mascot, Chief wahoo. What would anybody have against Chief Wahoo?

Trickie

I am offended by the Cleveland Browns.

The Atlanta Braves have taught me much about Native American culture.

For instance, did you know that in prehistorical America, Natives would try to bring on rallies during wars by having all their men wave tomahawks and shout "oh oh oh oh, oh oh ohoh oh".

I've learned a lot of American history by going to Nationals' games. For instance, did you know a giant-headed Abraham Lincoln is faster than a giant-head George Washington?

Yeaaaah the team name is totally offensive. Im 3.14% Cherokee and I'm at Pi. offended by that name. If they can change the name Bullets to wizards because of DC Violence Lil Danny Snyder should change the name or at least the indian head logo to something else. They could take the Capital City theme of the Nationals, Capitals etc etc to its logical conclusion and just call the stupid team the W's. Or the Dlassas's Bitches as their record over the last decade would show.

Maybe they could be called "The Washington Danny Boys" or "Danny's Little Bitches" or "The Washington Cash Cows." How's that?

im assuming you are talking about Pre-America Natives (they are not Native Americans as America wasn't founded yet). in anycase, fuck it... just finish the job and wipe the rest of them out. whiners.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Nutty as it sounds, I've always wondered why people are so quick to assume that these team names were chosen with anything but than the utmost respect. Native Americans were looked upon as courageous warriors who fought to the death--hence their influence on modern sports teams. Would any organization consciously name their team in a derogatory manner? I'm thinking no. In fact, it's quite the opposite.

While times continually change and everyone finds new and creative ways to be offended, it's worth using a little common sense every now and then. The Redskins, the Braves, the Indians, the Chiefs, the Blackhawks--the list goes on. What they all have in common is that at some point in their origins, someone with influence had the idea to name their team after what they felt was an honorable, fierce group of people--and it wasn't to humiliate them.

As a Swedish-American, should I take offense at the Minnesota Vikings and start demanding that they change their name and mascot? I mean, for Chrissakes--Vikings never actually wore those stupid horned helmets. And they damn sure didn't wear purple...

That's not totally accurate. I love the Redskins and don't think they should change thir name, but it has more to do with the team having had the name for 70+ years.

The Redskins did not choose their name because of an admiration for Native American warriors persay. They were originally known as the Braves, when they were in Boston. They moved to Fenway park and decided it would be kind of strange to have the name "braves" in the park the Red Sox played in, so they changed to Redskins in honor of the coach, who was half sioux.

I can find little doubt that the nickname was meant to ridicule native americans as "inferior". Look no further than Adolf Hitler's famed quote:

"There's only one duty: to Germanize this country by the immigration of Germans, and to look upon the natives as Redskins."

He was referring to conquering people and treating them as inferior beings...

The team clearly didn't happen upon its name by accident (neither "Braves" nor "Redskins"), and the Sioux connection only further supports the opinion that they wouldn't deliberately saddle their own club with a name that knowingly disparages an ethnicity.

All major sports teams with Native American names were likely chosen with the best of intentions--that's the point that many people overlook in their haste to rename them.

trekroner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nutty as it sounds, I've always wondered why
> people are so quick to assume that these team
> names were chosen with anything but than the
> utmost respect. Native Americans were looked upon
> as courageous warriors who fought to the
> death--hence their influence on modern sports
> teams. Would any organization consciously name
> their team in a derogatory manner? I'm thinking
> no. In fact, it's quite the opposite.
>
> While times continually change and everyone finds
> new and creative ways to be offended, it's worth
> using a little common sense every now and then.
> The Redskins, the Braves, the Indians, the Chiefs,
> the Blackhawks--the list goes on. What they all
> have in common is that at some point in their
> origins, someone with influence had the idea to
> name their team after what they felt was an
> honorable, fierce group of people--and it wasn't
> to humiliate them.
>
> As a Swedish-American, should I take offense at
> the Minnesota Vikings and start demanding that
> they change their name and mascot? I mean, for
> Chrissakes--Vikings never actually wore those
> stupid horned helmets. And they damn sure didn't
> wear purple...

Agreed, that's the way I always felt about it.

please, i am a native american. i was born and raised in the usa, im native to america. the reservations are (technically) not part of the country. they are NOT americans, they were not americans, they were here before america existed as a country, they were conquered, they are pre-america natives.

pre-america natives should just shut up and assimilate into america, thus becoming americans, and stop the bitching and moaning about things that happened two centries ago. you dont see me crying about my ancestors being forced to move to the usa because they ran out of land to divide among the family. i mean, come on, my ancestors were forced to leave their own country because they had no land to farm so they became americans. who is setting aside land for me to farm and live on now? NOBODY! boo-fucking-hoo.

p.s. the whole politically correctness stuff is absolute bullshit. it seems that people cant deal with the truth a.k.a. reality anymore.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

I'm a fatass, so I'm offended by the Oakland Athletics.
I'm against the war in Iraq, so I'm offended by the New England Patriots.
I'm atheist, so I'm offended by the Los Angeles Angels.
I'm a ninja, so I'm offended by the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Anybody can be offended by anything. They need to just STFU and deal with it.

----------------
WHERE'S THE BEEF

Gravis you sir are an ignorant fuck. this message board is littered with your bull shit. the Americas are not a country! they are fucking continents! Native americans are native to America the continent not the country. pre america natives is the dumbest thing I have ever heard

Didn't they get sued in the past for the same thing, in the 90's i belive

Would somebody PLEASE do something about the Cincinnati Reds and the Bost Red Sox!? They are offensive to dead Communists!

jelly your peanut butter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the Americas are not a country! they are fucking
> continents! Native americans are native to
> America the continent not the country.

what do you call a person that is a citizen of the USA? i call them americans. what do you call someone from columbia? they are columbians. their country is in the americas but i dont think anyone would refer to them as americans. the continents were named AFTER pre-america natives lived here thus they were native to a continent/land that was not called america. they never named the land so it can only be refered to as pre-america.


> pre america natives is the dumbest thing I have ever heard

sure, but that is what you get for not picking a name. by the way, they have changed the PC term from Native Americans to American Indians, not to be confused with Indian-Americans. my term is more correct. sit and spin, bitch.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Ok, calm down Gravis, you got spooge all over the wall.

ok Gravis I'm sorry your right. It is ok that europeans came and stole all of the natives land. They never named it...so i geuss it wasnt theirs to begin with. Its not like they lived there or anything...

I hear Snyder has the name Washington Warriors already

Gravis wrote:

what do you call someone from columbia? they are columbians


No Gravis, they are called Colombians and their country is Colombia; not to be confused with the District of Coumbia.

District of Columbia...my bad!!!!!!

FrancoB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No Gravis, they are called Colombians and their
> country is Colombia; not to be confused with the
> District of Coumbia.

psst... nobody cares.


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

THERE GOES THE CARECUP. \_/ EMPTY

Even if the Redskins has a sioux on staff, that still doesn't excuse the name. If they had a black coach instead, would they have been called the Washington Darkies? I doubt it.
Much as I hate to play into the PC bullshit, I actually do find the name to be rather distasteful. Calling your team the warriors or the braves is one thing. The term Redskin, however, is different. It refers to race (Red Skin), not bravery or any other admirable trait of America's original inhabitant. Therefore, the team's name is racist. It should be changed.
Lastly, I apologize for my use of the derogatory term darkies. I was just making a point.

no it is totally uncalled for for them to be so biggoted and ignorant that it is actually making fun of our native ancestors because they had dark skin, do you really thing they would name a team something bad about the whites no of course because it is then who are the biggoted ones george gibbs and schneider are all very racist

John Q Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Even if the Redskins has a sioux on staff, that
> still doesn't excuse the name. If they had a black
> coach instead, would they have been called the
> Washington Darkies? I doubt it.
> Much as I hate to play into the PC bullshit, I
> actually do find the name to be rather
> distasteful. Calling your team the warriors or the
> braves is one thing. The term Redskin, however, is
> different. It refers to race (Red Skin), not
> bravery or any other admirable trait of America's
> original inhabitant. Therefore, the team's name is
> racist. It should be changed.
> Lastly, I apologize for my use of the derogatory
> term darkies. I was just making a point.


I agree that in the context of the times we currently live in, it can easily be viewed as an ethnic slur. But the question remains--does anyone really believe that was the intention? I mean, why would you name your own team anything other than something they'd be proud of?

I see your point. And it probably wasn't meant to be offensive, which may or may not be the crux of the lawsuit. I don't know.
Nonetheless, I think the intention is irrelevant. It's a racist name. Why cling to a name that alienates a segment of the population who might otherwise support the team?

For what it's worth, it's probably also safe to say that more people find the name "Washington Redskins" more offensive than those who did "Washington Bullets"--and yet, that name was changed.

I'm surprised more proponents of the name change haven't cited that fact more often...

John Q Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why cling to a name that
> alienates a segment of the population who might
> otherwise support the team?

They won't support the team, plus there is a waiting list for season tickets already. And they cling to the name because no one wants to replace all their team clothing and accoutrements.

How about leaving all the colors and logos and just renaming the team to the Natives? That way it could mean anyone and the term is a factual one, not a racial one.

Big Johnny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> no it is totally uncalled for for them to be so
> biggoted and ignorant that it is actually making
> fun of our native ancestors because they had dark
> skin, do you really thing they would name a team
> something bad about the whites no of course
> because it is then who are the biggoted ones
> george gibbs and schneider are all very racist

Pay attention to sports much?

Last time I checked, our head coach's name wasn't George. And since he's employed by the team, he's automatically racist?

Schneider is the catcher for the Nationals. Snyder is the Redskins' owner.

And there's one 'g' in bigoted.

So your argument is entirely invalid. Good day sir.

----------------
WHERE'S THE BEEF

Hmmm....The Washington Natives.....that kind of has a ring to it.

I'd buy it; but hearing the likes of George Michael and co. repeatedly say "...and the Natives are restless, folks!" would get old very fast.

Of course, it'd also be painfully ironic that the Washington Natives aren't really "native" to Washington at all, playing in scenic Landover, MD.

trekroner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's probably also safe to
> say that more people find the name "Washington
> Redskins" more offensive than those who did
> "Washington Bullets"--and yet, that name was
> changed.

was the decision to change it really because it was offensive to people or really just people/gov. officials in D.C. because it correlated D.C. with people getting shot? however, a lot of people do get shot in D.C. :)


"the wisdom of the wise will perish, the intelligence of the intelligent will vanish."

Fuck those american indians or indian americans whatever those native american people
i can say this because i am 50% so fuck them! and do not mess with my football teams name i will scalp you all

It's time we changed the name to the Washington Spooks. Or the Washington Gooks. Or the Washington Gook Spook Spics. That'll fix it.

what is a spook

edit: nevermind
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spook



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2006 11:20AM by MrDoctor.

The Washington Cold War Era Spies!?!

We stole the Indians land, wrote up worthless treaties for them that we never paid, and then fenced them in like animals on junk land. Why should we start being nice to them now.

In 1887, as Indian reservations were being broken up and the federal government began leasing or selling the oil, mineral, grazing and timber resources on the Indians' land to private developers, Congress passed an act allotting modest paybacks to the Indians who were the former occupants.

"An ongoing, decade-long tribal lawsuit centers on the BIA, which doles out in small amounts about $500 million a year of the money owed to the Indians. The BIA's so-called "trust fund," now loaded with an undistributed $3 billion, has cheated hundreds of thousands of Indians for decades of $137 billion in royalties from the natural resource leases.

"In 1994 Congress finally passed the American Indian Trust Reform Management Act, and in court in Washington since 1996 the BIA has been forced to concede that it has mislaid thousands of files and lost track of unpaid beneficiaries. The frequently exasterated federal judge hearing the case, Royce Lamberth, has called the agency's incompetent conduct "the gold standard for mismanagement by the federal government for more than a century."

Jester-

Good point. Makes you wonder why the Native Americans aren't using more time and energy trying to rectify that instead of squandering time and energy trying to get the Florida State Seminoles to change their name when it isn't anymore offensive than the Notre Dame Fighting Irish (drunken micks) or the OU Sooners (land squatters and cheaters).

The Seminole Tribe of Florida fully endorses FSU's use of the name.


http://www.fsu.edu/~univrel/seminoles/pages/timeline.html

Ok, then from now on it's the Washington Seminoles. Problem solved.

Perfect, they already stole the chant...

My bad, that's the Atlanta Braves.

The Washington Algonkians would be appropriate in that vain, if it didn't sound like a retard kid trying to talk..

They could be the Washington Mohawks, and the mascot could be the old-school Riggo w/ his mohawk
Attachments:

That should be it. And they wont have to change the uniform

Instead of some dumbass "mascot" running around in a head-dress, Snyder could pay Riggo to go up into the crowd getting people all pumped the fuck out. It's a fuckin no-brainer. (I ain't a Skins fan but this idea could work in an effective way)

Having gone to many a game at FedEx, I don't think anyone needs pumping up.

Having gone to many a game at FedEx, I don't think anyone needs pumping up.

It's nothing at all like The Vet used to be, DC fans are fairly lame. I've been to maybe 12 games at FedEx since 98 and that crowd is not as pumped up as other NFL stadiums I've been to. I don't blame it on the fans though, I blame it on Daniel Snyder for pricing out the real fans in favor of douchebags that can affod to spend 80+ bucks on a single game.

Since people dont read old Threads, just figure I would help bandwidth. LOL

burpgun Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The hypocrisy in using a racial slur to name the
> main sports team of the capital of a nation that
> sells itself as the principle purveyor of freedom
> and equality has always struck me as perfectly
> poignant - excuse all the alliteration.

You rock, Burp!

But let's not fetget that it's really called the Distik of Corruption. I mean, that scumbag crack-head Barry gets elected over and over and over again?

Whitney be dead for a year and this douche is still alive and in office? Disgust!

BTW -- if they were called the Niggerskins, we would not be having this discussion...